APR S3 Running Lean

[Ju$t4Kick$]

I seem to be having an issue with my car running lean. The car is not storing my long term fuel trims, so at idle the car is throwing a lean code. Has anyone ever had this issue or heard of this issue? I talked to APR and they seem to think it is not an issue with the tune and they never get messed up.

[p0isin]

Can you take some logs of your desired and actual lambda values and injection times?

[mec]

Do Some logs for us, it might be your HPFP. Second option is to call APR and ask for the right people, Customer service usually isn't the right people, as contrary as that sounds

[drumnjuny]

x3 on logs, since its running lean look at blocks 230 - 234 i'm 90% sure those are fueling. hpfp requested and actual, lpfp requested and actual, lambda requested and actual would be what you need.

also your LPFP could be going out depending on how long you've been tuned / how many miles are on your car.

Another thing to look at is your fuel filter. I didn't notice a difference when I swapped mine but tons of people on here do (mine must not have been clogged when i swapped it in an attempt to fix another problem)

[mec]

Also toss up your CEL codes so we can get a better clue what is happening.

[aluthman]

If your car isn't storing LTFTs, check to make sure your N80 is plugged in and working.

[mec]

If your car isn't storing LTFTs, check to make sure your N80 is plugged in and working.

Maestro Master over here!

I totally forgot about the n80. Will it cause lean conditions though? I thought the n80 mostly makes marginal corrections?

[SwiftA4]

Maestro Master over here!

I totally forgot about the n80. Will it cause lean conditions though? I thought the n80 mostly makes marginal corrections?

N80 was throwing a lean code for me when it shit the bed.

Edit: P0171 was the code

[aluthman]

If you unplug the N80, your car does not use/store long term fuel trims. This COULD cause a lean code. Not saying this is definitely the issue, but it's an easy thing to check.

[mec]

N80 was throwing a lean code for me when it shit the bed.

Interesting. Now Adam will chime in here, he is well versed in Maestro, but from my understanding, the n80 is what is used to make injector corrections in fueling, so the n80 puffs out fuel vapor to be taken into the cylinders, but I always assumed this was a small correction factor to improve combustion, not significant enough to change the air:fuel mix significantly.

What code did you get out of curiosity?

[SwiftA4]

Interesting. Now Adam will chime in here, he is well versed in Maestro, but from my understanding, the n80 is what is used to make injector corrections in fueling, so the n80 puffs out fuel vapor to be taken into the cylinders, but I always assumed this was a small correction factor to improve combustion, not significant enough to change the air:fuel mix significantly.

What code did you get out of curiosity?

My guess was that it was getting stuck closed causing it to run lean. I'm not sure of how small/big the correction factor actually is, but it was def enough to throw the code. Updated my post before with the code.

[aluthman]

Interesting. Now Adam will chime in here, he is well versed in Maestro, but from my understanding, the n80 is what is used to make injector corrections in fueling, so the n80 puffs out fuel vapor to be taken into the cylinders, but I always assumed this was a small correction factor to improve combustion, not significant enough to change the air:fuel mix significantly.

What code did you get out of curiosity?

That is the function of the n80, but when it isn't working or is disconnected, you have no long term trims. If your injector corrections aren't spot on, your ecu is trying to account for everything on the fly and might not be able to keep up if the error is large enough.

[mec]

My guess was that it was getting stuck closed causing it to run lean. I'm not sure of how small/big the correction factor actually is, but it was def enough to throw the code. Updated my post before with the code.

hah thats a tough code, its pretty much a code that says check everything. Maf, fueling, air leaks, fuel leaks, spark plugs.


That is the function of the n80, but when it isn't working or is disconnected, you have no long term trims. If your injector corrections aren't spot on, your ecu is trying to account for everything on the fly and might not be able to keep up if the error is large enough.

What is 25%. the ECU can correct up to 25% fueling using the n80, but what is htat a % of. Is that 25% of 100% of the injector fueling over two rotations of the crank, or 25% of the fueling per cylinder? 25% of a saudi arabian princes' oil reserves?

[Jake@JHM]

Also check for a Vacuum leak. More air than your MAF is calculating will make the car leaner.

I highly doubt it is their tuning. APR tunes are always solid and if it was the tuning, you would not be the only one with this issue.

[SwiftA4]

hah thats a tough code, its pretty much a code that says check everything. Maf, fueling, air leaks, fuel leaks, spark plugs.

haha i know. Luckily i was able to find a thread somewhere where someone had the same code and a new N80 fixed it. I happened to try that first and lucked out lol.

And good call too Jake... forgot about vac leaks

[aluthman]

What is 25%. the ECU can correct up to 25% fueling using the n80, but what is htat a % of. Is that 25% of 100% of the injector fueling over two rotations of the crank, or 25% of the fueling per cylinder? 25% of a saudi arabian princes' oil reserves?

Half the challenge of using Maestro is trying to figure out what the hell the units mean. In this case, if I gave you an answer I'd be guessing.

[mec]

Half the challenge of using Maestro is trying to figure out what the hell the units mean. In this case, if I gave you an answer I'd be guessing.

I feel ya. I remember one map being fueling or some type of correction based on intake temps and coolant temps....and so you have two temperature axis, neither is labeled air or water....so you just have to guess haha. Fun times.

[Ju$t4Kick$]

Ya we did some logs and looked at the fuel rates. My fuel pump was at 75% so I replaced the filter thinking that could be it. My mec was saying that it could be the LPFP since the filter didnt help. I did contact APR but they didnt seem to think it would be software related. It weird because when im on the gas the fuel trims are fine but at idle its hunting for fuel from -10% to +20.
The code that it is throwing is P2096 Lean bank 1. If it is my HPFP do you guys think it would be because of the follower?

Funny I posted this in the tech forum and didnt get any bites..

Thanks

[kloeb2]

Post the logs..

75% lpfp duty should be ok when WOT. Should be roughly around 50% at idle. Whats more important is the pressure output and whether or not it is holding high enough during wot.

Did you change the n80?

[mec]

Try this and let us know what happens. We need to make sure enough fuel is flowing to the hpfp and from the hpfp to the injectors.

Checking Fuel Pressure
Prerequisites:
Ignition ON
Engine ON (Idle)
System voltage at least 11.0 V.
Coolant Temperature at least 80 °C

[Select]
[01 - Engine]
[Meas. Blocks - 08]
Group 103
[Go!]
Field 1: Fuel Pressure (Low), Specification: 2800...7200 mbar
Field 2: Fuel Pump Adaptation, Specification: -1000...+1000 %

Group 106
[Go!]
Field 2: Fuel Rail,Pressure (actual): 55% or below is normal at idle
55% to 60% is a gray area, it may be okay, but may indicate a problem
Above 60% implies there is a failure or restriction
Causes of low pressure can include kinks or restrictions in fuel lines
Fuel filter issues including restricted/clogged or incorrect part number
Failing lift pump in fuel tank. We have seen numerous cases of sub-standard quality "factory" replacements in "factory boxes" that were obtained from aftermarket sources and are not sourced from official dealers. This led to troubleshooting problems that were solved by installing correct factory parts. We encourage customers to only install lift pump and fuel filter sourced directly from a VW/Audi dealer.

Group 140
[Go!]
Field 3: Fuel Rail Pressure (High), Specification: 25.0...110.0 bar
Increase the Engine Speed while checking this value, the Pressure has to rise with the Engine Speed.
Group 230
[Go!]
Field 1: Specified Fuel Rail Pressure (High)
Field 2: Actual Fuel Rail Pressure (High), Specification: 25.0...110.0 bar
Field 3: Deviation between specified and actual fuel pressure, Specification: max. 5.0 bar
This video may be helpful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jThQVzYFbVo


[Done, Go Back]
[Close Controller, Go Back - 06]

[Ju$t4Kick$]

Is the N80 part of the PCV? I had the PCV changed under warranty and after that is when I started to notice some issues. The car just hit 100K so the LPFP will probably need replaced soon?

[mec]

Is the N80 part of the PCV? I had the PCV changed under warranty and after that is when I started to notice some issues. The car just hit 100K so the LPFP will probably need replaced soon?

no N80 is part of the EVAP system. the LPFP might be going out, try the instructions I sent

[Ju$t4Kick$]

Ok I just checked and the N80 is plugged in. Ill probably have to wait till tomorrow to get the Vag com.

[Ju$t4Kick$]

Would the LPFP make it not store my LTFT?

[SwiftA4]

Try Mec's suggestions first and see where that leads.

The N80 could be shot too. I believe if you take it off, and you can blow air through it, it's toast. You shouldn't be able to pass air through it.

[mec]

Try Mec's suggestions first and see where that leads.

The N80 could be shot too. I believe if you take it off, and you can blow air through it, it's toast. You shouldn't be able to pass air through it.

Oh heyo thats not a bad recommendation...n80 is supposed to be super cheap.

OP try what Swifta4 said, otherwise, take your vag-com and go into engine then control tests, or something that sounds like that, then go through the tests to get to n80 and see if you can hear it click open and close when you test it.

[Ju$t4Kick$]

Ok ill have to wait till tomorrow for the Vag com.. Thanks for the help guys

[mec]

Ok ill have to wait till tomorrow for the Vag com.. Thanks for the help guys

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/247/f/5/owls__no_prob_bro_by_falcotte-d5djcun.jpg

[Jake@JHM]

We have the n80 for a great price

Sent from my S5

[mec]

We have the sex for a great price

Sent from my S5

FTFY!
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140408233820/p__/protagonist/images/a/a5/Borat.jpg

[Ju$t4Kick$]

I just talked to my mec and he said the lpfp was at 75% at idle. Ill run those test tomarrow. He doesnt think that the lpfp would make it so that it doesnt store the fuel trims.

[mec]

I just talked to my mec and he said the lpfp was at 75% at idle. Ill run those test tomarrow. He doesnt think that the lpfp would make it so that it doesnt store the fuel trims.

I'm mec, I think you are talking about someon else.

[tIm0]

Hi guys, I hate to hijack this thread but it seems that i am experiencing some of these same issues.

Would any of you be able to give me some direction with this!



Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8P0 907 115 P HW: 8P0 907 115 B
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0010
Software Coding: 0103010A1C070160
Work Shop Code: WSC 09223 444 84432
VCID: 3F874F2B6EA28EE6A2D-806A
1 Fault Found:

008567 - Bank 1; System Too Lean off Idle
P2177 - 001 -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 228188 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.10.04
Time: 13:50:25

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1865 /min
Load: 38.4 %
Speed: 74.0 km/h
Temperature: 90.0°C
Temperature: 28.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V


Readiness: 0000 0100


Here is what I have tried and where I am at up to this point:
I have since switched back to stock intake and DP.
Replaced MAF, upstream O2 sensor, DV, Coil Packs, Plugs, PCV & Fuel Filter.
Had it tested for vacuum leaks.
Checked cam follower & hpfp piston for wear.

Block 003 shows MAF reading air values in normal range. My LTFT in block 32 keeps rising to @ 20% within 10 - 15 miles of highway driving only under about 20% - 30% engine load at @ 2500 - 2900 rpms. The STFT in block 32 stays perfect between -0.5 and 0.8%. Block 33 Lambda fluctuates from 4% to 14% randomly which is indicative of a vacuum leak but cant find one to save my life.

[mec]

How's the low pressure look?

[movingdirt]

Hi guys, I hate to hijack this thread but it seems that i am experiencing some of these same issues.

Would any of you be able to give me some direction with this!



Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8P0 907 115 P HW: 8P0 907 115 B
Component and/or Version: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0010
Software Coding: 0103010A1C070160
Work Shop Code: WSC 09223 444 84432
VCID: 3F874F2B6EA28EE6A2D-806A
1 Fault Found:

008567 - Bank 1; System Too Lean off Idle
P2177 - 001 -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 228188 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2014.10.04
Time: 13:50:25

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1865 /min
Load: 38.4 %
Speed: 74.0 km/h
Temperature: 90.0°C
Temperature: 28.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V


Readiness: 0000 0100


Here is what I have tried and where I am at up to this point:
I have since switched back to stock intake and DP.
Replaced MAF, upstream O2 sensor, DV, Coil Packs, Plugs, PCV & Fuel Filter.
Had it tested for vacuum leaks.
Checked cam follower & hpfp piston for wear.

Block 003 shows MAF reading air values in normal range. My LTFT in block 32 keeps rising to @ 20% within 10 - 15 miles of highway driving only under about 20% - 30% engine load at @ 2500 - 2900 rpms. The STFT in block 32 stays perfect between -0.5 and 0.8%. Block 33 Lambda fluctuates from 4% to 14% randomly which is indicative of a vacuum leak but cant find one to save my life.

Did you figure it out? I'm getting similar symptoms..