JRZ RS1 single adjustable coilovers street/track kit

[westwest888]

I'm working with the guys at GMG Racing in SoCal on a coilover kit that meets my high standards. Stasis is toast and the Ohlins motorsport kit is likely inappropriate for a street car. They are recommending the JRZ RS1 kit from the Netherlands. It seems to have very positive reviews on the E92 M3. I'm not aware of anyone who has put this on a B8. JRZ is a low volume, made to order manufacturer that doesn't market broadly in the United States.

http://i58.tinypic.com/27ybwhy.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/6ifhqt.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/k9sxs4.jpg



I would definitely recommend that you consider the JRZ RS1 coil overs. We have a technological partnership with JRZ with our Audi motorsports program and they are a quantum leap ahead of most suspension setups in terms of performance, quality, and even comfort. For the B8, they are [approximately $3500] and here are more details about them:



JRZ RS1

Single Adjustable Damper for Street and Track

JRZ Suspension Engineering is proud to introduce the JRZ RS1, a revolutionary development in multipurpose high performance damping.

Applying our race winning technology, JRZ designed the JRZ RS1 to give ultimate comfort for public roads and precise chassis control when driving on track.


The JRZ RS1 is a high gas pressure, single adjustable monotube damper. The canister has been designed inside of the damper.

JRZ inner canister technology gives the advantages of monotube canister dampers without the mounting concerns and complexity.

Easy to install, the JRZ RS1 is available as a complete kit with mounting hardware and springs for all applications we support.



Built on the same production line and sharing components with our pro racing applications, the JRZ RS1 is of true professional heritage.

Following JRZ’s design philosophy, the JRZ RS1 has a large 22mm diameter piston rod in strut applications and a 16mm diameter piston rod in aluminium damper applications.

The large piston rod magnifies the high pressure gas charge which means great chassis control without using a high spring rate or increasing harshness.


Features

• 22 mm rod strut, 16 mm rod damper
• 24 clicks of rebound
• Adjustable gas pressure, mono tube
• Piston designed for high performance
• Large adjustment range


Utilizing a mono tube design with a high flow piston ensures the smoothest possible ride in normal conditions while the bleed adjustment gives the ability to tune for racing situations.

Unlike many other single adjustable suspensions, damping balance is carefully maintained between compression and rebound. This damping balance is critical to maintaining tire contact with the road in addition to controlling the main mass of the vehicle.

To satisfy the diverse needs of each driver’s application, the JRZ RS1 has an extra large adjustment range.

With a few clicks you can turn your smooth street car into a crisp, rock solid track car in seconds.


JRZ has designed the JRZ RS1 to give the end user the best possible damper to drive daily, while maintaining the racetrack performance that wins championships.

The JRZ RS1 is shipped as a bolt-on kit and always comes with the personal support JRZ is known for.

Using the best materials, coatings and aerospace standard manufacturing processes as in our motorsport line; the JRZ RS1 is designed to perform flawlessly.

Adjustment is easy to perform and comes with the knowledge base only JRZ provides to his customers.



Benefits

• Easy to use and bolt-in
• Street ride, racing performance
• Extra long product life
• One adjustment for complete control of ride and handling
• Professional racing quality




Recommended applications


• Daily driving
• Drivers education (DE) events and track days
• Club racing

[aaronz]

Looks nice, keep us posted!


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[saxon]

high quality dampers for sure, look like a nice mid range between the stasis/ohlins setup and the ohlins motorsports setup

[CircuitTested]

Just think of the mess you can make of things with all that adjustability.

[budda]

I've had JRZ RS Pros on my Honda for 3 years now... can re-build them yourself if you know what your doing.

[westwest888]

Just think of the mess you can make of things with all that adjustability.

I will hire a professional that knows what they are doing. Then I will take it out on track and give them the feedback. And then we'll iterate. I'm pretty excited about it. The M3 guys seem to love it.

[MMisencik157]

Subscribed. Cool to see a b8 with JRZs. Just curious as to why you chose the RS1 over the RS or RS Pro, especially if the target price is around $3500? Also what spring rates are you gong with?

[westwest888]

Subscribed. Cool to see a b8 with JRZs. Just curious as to why you chose the RS1 over the RS or RS Pro, especially if the target price is around $3500? Also what spring rates are you gong with?

It was just based on platform availability. I will post an update when I learn the spring rate. I may act on this after Memorial Day.

[QUA77RO]

Just think of the mess you can make of things with all that adjustability.

+1 Agreed. And to think that he thinks "professionals" are going to give him proper settings for street/track...[facepalm] This should be as entertaining as all the downforce from his cf spoiler lip. ...oh sorry, lift negation...LOL[>_<]

Greg, how many months will you be loaning them your car to do track testing with it so those "professional" can come up with the appropriate # of clicks?


Subscribed. Cool to see a b8 with JRZs. Just curious as to why you chose the RS1 over the RS or RS Pro, especially if the target price is around $3500? Also what spring rates are you gong with?

...seriously? He didn't choose anything... he was posting more hypothetical possibilities of possibilities that came to him out of a google search stupor.

sorry to say, you just got trolled.[:/]

[MMisencik157]

+1 Agreed. And to think that he thinks "professionals" are going to give him proper settings for street/track...[facepalm] This should be as entertaining as all the downforce from his cf spoiler lip. ...oh sorry, lift negation...LOL[>_<]

Greg, how many months will you be loaning them your car to do track testing with it so those "professional" can come up with the appropriate # of clicks?

Its really not that hard to grasp a basic understanding of how to set up adjustable suspension. If you get lost or feel that the car is worse after playing with the adjusters you can always go back to the base "recommended" settings as a worst case scenario. Making the car worse before it gets better is sometimes part of the game with suspension tuning when there is a lot to adjust. RS1 are single adjustable and shouldn't be too hard to figure out even for someone new to suspension tuning.


...seriously? He didn't choose anything... he was posting more hypothetical possibilities of possibilities that came to him out of a google search stupor.

sorry to say, you just got trolled.[:/]

Oops… should have said "would choose"

Oh no I got trolled on an online forum and I'm so butthurt. What do I do now?…

[integroid]

Any grassroots racer knows the quality of JRZ components. High quality products for sure but I was always under the impression they were a track only type of setup like the Ohlin motorsports setup.

[westwest888]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You know I am a risk taker and a winner. See you out there Marcel!

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[westwest888]

I test all of my risky shit at Buttonwillow. I'm not even saying the vendor is risky. The installers never get this shit right the first time. Truth.

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[westwest888]

You can manage this risks as you manage any others. Put more eyes on it and test. Hand off the work. One shop that is Audi pro installs it. Let the suspension settle for 3 weeks. Take it to another shop that specializes in custom alignments for street/track and racecars. Then test it out at a technical, flat desert track.

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[MMisencik157]

LOL... Why ask me? Stop feeding the troll I guess.[:p]

+1...but we are talking about Greg... no experience with racing...or basic understanding of adjustments... btw, there are no baseline adjustments since they've never done a B8 kit. Completely trial and error... for someone without any experience reading what a suspension is doing equals recipe for disaster on a technical track. Maybe if he was setting it up on a beginner track like Buttonwillow...maybe...


Hahah true story, its difficult sometimes when the trolls are damn hungry on audizine! But, I guess thats half the fun of some forums (like this one) and the less serious the people that frequent them. Others, like TrackHQ, are more specific forums are generally more serious due to the level of knowledge and experience which is a nice if you're actually trying to learn a few things from people who have a deeper understanding than most. For guys like yourself and West who track more often than most and have a seemingly decently good driving ability its worth checking out a forum like trackhq for questions or just to read through threads about things that you want a better understanding of.

This specific kit may not have baseline settings like most other off the shelf kits since it is new to the chassis but Im sure JRZ could give you something if you are completely lost. In any case, these being a single adjustable would be very easy and really wouldn't really require a baseline… Just start with rebound all the way out and keep going up on the clickers say 2 or 3 clicks at a time until you start shocking the tire and the car feels worse, then back down a click or two and voila! theres a solid starting point for that track. As you already know, it isn't difficult to acquire a basic understanding and if one is clueless and doesn't care to spend even a little time to try and learn then they probably wouldn't be buying a suspension setup in this league anyways.

I agree with everything else you said- a track with as few solid objects to hit will always be best when going through the teething and learning phase… stay the hell away from Sonoma, lol. Also that it may not be the best idea for West to be the guinea pig on this one because of the lack of suspension tuning knowledge and experience. Im sure JRZ will do their homework on this but if for some reason they get it slightly wrong he will be pulling his hair out trying to make it better if he doesn't know exactly what he's doing doing or how to articulate to the guy re-valving it what is happening and what he wants corrected.

[riseabv]

Nice love to hear what comes of this..


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[CircuitTested]

You can manage this risks as you manage any others. Put more eyes on it and test. Hand off the work. One shop that is Audi pro installs it. Let the suspension settle for 3 weeks. Take it to another shop that specializes in custom alignments for street/track and racecars. Then test it out at a technical, flat desert track.

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Do you ever talk to anyone that actually has a properly set up track car? There is no one size fits all suspension setting. Every track can have different settings and different drivers might prefer different characteristics. You can't just say -8 rebound and be done with it. That's the beauty of an adjustable system and it's also the burden. I run 3 ways and have a full AiM telemetry system and even after 2 years I'm still very much learning how to dial them in.

Have you gotten a final quote from GMG? My money is on you finding some absurd excuse not to buy these when you get the invoice. JRZ stuff is 5-7k if it's off the rack. Add in that Sofronas has to pay for his GMG R8 WC campaign and you're looking at $$.

[westwest888]

Do you ever talk to anyone that actually has a properly set up track car? There is no one size fits all suspension setting. Every track can have different settings and different drivers might prefer different characteristics. You can't just say -8 rebound and be done with it. That's the beauty of an adjustable system and it's also the burden. I run 3 ways and have a full AiM telemetry system and even after 2 years I'm still very much learning how to dial them in.

Have you gotten a final quote from GMG? My money is on you finding some absurd excuse not to buy these when you get the invoice. JRZ stuff is 5-7k if it's off the rack. Add in that Sofronas has to pay for his GMG R8 WC campaign and you're looking at $$.

I pay someone that talks to someone who has properly set up a track car. What could go right?

I know I'm in for $3950 to get the system to my door with tax and shipping from the Netherlands, $800 for someone to put it on the car, and $500 for someone else to spend 4 hours dialing it in. The beauty of this is I have 3 neutral parties coming to a consensus. If any one of them says these systems are not appropriate for how I use them, I kill the idea before I've spent a dime. Of course I'm a wildcard and Audizine is a wildcard. It would be stupid to let anyone with an Audizine account including myself make the final call. I really trust the shops that I have a long history of working with.

In terms of personal skill level, I'm at a point where I have the Pilot Super Sports howling on most every turn at my two most frequented tracks, Laguna and Thunderhill. It's time for me to go to a much more serious suspension setup, and spend a season or two finding the edge of that. I have to admit I like the idea of front aero and forcing the air out from under the car, like this:

http://image.hotrod.com/f/techarticles/9354560+w799+h499+cr1+ar0/113_0510_aero_11_z%2Baerodynamic_tips_tricks%2Bcam aro_air_dam.jpg

[westwest888]

Hahah true story, its difficult sometimes when the trolls are damn hungry on audizine! But, I guess thats half the fun of some forums (like this one) and the less serious the people that frequent them. Others, like TrackHQ, are more specific forums are generally more serious due to the level of knowledge and experience which is a nice if you're actually trying to learn a few things from people who have a deeper understanding than most. For guys like yourself and West who track more often than most and have a seemingly decently good driving ability its worth checking out a forum like trackhq for questions or just to read through threads about things that you want a better understanding of.

This specific kit may not have baseline settings like most other off the shelf kits since it is new to the chassis but Im sure JRZ could give you something if you are completely lost. In any case, these being a single adjustable would be very easy and really wouldn't really require a baseline… Just start with rebound all the way out and keep going up on the clickers say 2 or 3 clicks at a time until you start shocking the tire and the car feels worse, then back down a click or two and voila! theres a solid starting point for that track. As you already know, it isn't difficult to acquire a basic understanding and if one is clueless and doesn't care to spend even a little time to try and learn then they probably wouldn't be buying a suspension setup in this league anyways.

I agree with everything else you said- a track with as few solid objects to hit will always be best when going through the teething and learning phase… stay the hell away from Sonoma, lol. Also that it may not be the best idea for West to be the guinea pig on this one because of the lack of suspension tuning knowledge and experience. Im sure JRZ will do their homework on this but if for some reason they get it slightly wrong he will be pulling his hair out trying to make it better if he doesn't know exactly what he's doing doing or how to articulate to the guy re-valving it what is happening and what he wants corrected.

This isn't my first rodeo. I did a lot of trial and error on the E90 platform. First with the Bilstein PSS9. Then with some aftermarket camber plates hacked onto those. Then onto the real deal kit from Ground Control - a coilover with a purpose built in camber plate. And a lot of small tweaks in between.

I had to learn car control from day 1 because the E90 stability system has only two modes: taking grandma to church, and OFF. Most people I go to the track with are not comfortable with the computer off, and some have crashed very expensive cars in trying their hand at solo flying. The new systems are so invisible they will make you think you are good, but an astute passenger like myself or Marcel can sense a "male enhancement EPC/ARS" with our eyes closed.

I've had my S4 for 4 years. I know it well enough to wrangle it back from being pitched sideways at any point on a track, even when the road camber is sloping away into the dirt (eek). I can handle a 1 way suspension. Because westwest888 only does linear thinking on this forum.

[DATZ]

You get more delusional with each post. It's amazing to watch.

[F16HTON]

My two cents...

You are better off purchasing a set of track tires (dedicated) and continue your pursuit of quicker lap times from there. Once you have your braking dialed in, then you can begin to think about suspension.

There is little to no benefit to be had by switching out dampeners if you continue to use tires that will not allow you to get the most even out of what you are running now.

Nothing will help, not Aero, not power, not Damening, not braking...

The tires are your connection to the track, everything else feeds off of them.

Examples:
BFG R1 or R1S
Hoosier A6 or R6
Hankook Z214
Kumho V700/710

There are many more out there.

[westwest888]

My two cents...

You are better off purchasing a set of track tires (dedicated) and continue your pursuit of quicker lap times from there. Once you have your braking dialed in, then you can begin to think about suspension.

There is little to no benefit to be had by switching out dampeners if you continue to use tires that will not allow you to get the most even out of what you are running now.

Nothing will help, not Aero, not power, not Damening, not braking...

The tires are your connection to the track, everything else feeds off of them.

Examples:
BFG R1 or R1S
Hoosier A6 or R6
Hankook Z214
Kumho V700/710

There are many more out there.

I really could not disagree more. Street tires like PSS are stickier than full race tires from 15-20 years ago. I pass people on race tires all the time. I can count on two hands the number of guys that use them properly. Most people use R888 and their traction system to feel like weekend heroes. Their lap times are 5 seconds slower than the fastest a street tire could do. Why do they have them? Some moron on a forum told them not to go on track without track tires.

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[aaronz]

Why are they not better? I get you disagree but how so?


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[SwankPeRFection]

I test all of my risky shit at Buttonwillow. I'm not even saying the vendor is risky. The installers never get this shit right the first time. Truth.

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Maybe your installers...

[westwest888]

Why are they not better? I get you disagree but how so?


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The race tires are so good they hide all of your mistakes. The street tires will yell at you if you screw up slightly. Like the difference between a car and a go kart. The go kart punishes you for every mistake because there is no suspension. So you learn from the kart more than the $50k car.

Using race tires before you are at the top of the game will arrest your learning of how to drive a perfect line.

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[MMisencik157]

I really could not disagree more. Street tires like PSS are stickier than full race tires from 15-20 years ago. I pass people on race tires all the time. I can count on two hands the number of guys that use them properly. Most people use R888 and their traction system to feel like weekend heroes. Their lap times are 5 seconds slower than the fastest a street tire could do. Why do they have them? Some moron on a forum told them not to go on track without track tires.

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Resounding +1. Street tires are the tits and the top EHP street tires form the current generation are nearly on par with an entry level r-comp like the R888 for a single flyer or so. The real difference is the heat tolerance after a few laps.

Street tires WILL make you a faster and ultimately better driver in the long run. Newbies that mount up r-comps from the beginning are just driving with a false sense of everything and are more than likely forming some bad habits that will he difficult to correct later down the road.

500HPS5- the term is "damping" and yes most people will go faster only changing that variable- to put it simply, high quality dampers set up properly will keep more of the tire on the ground more of the time, giving you more ultimate grip and more confidence. Its the same story with adding more downforce, better braking and/or more power. It may not be huge gains but you can almost guarantee that on most road courses there will be gains with with the addition of any single one or combination of those.

I believe that going to an entry level r-comp is a mistake for new drivers but going to a "level 2" (R6, R1, C51, V700 etc.) or "level 3" (A6, R1-S, C71, V710 etc) can be a catastrophic mistake. Yes, the grip limit is higher but all it means for a newer driver is that you'll be carrying more speed as you f*ck up and loose the car. Especially a tire like the BFG R1 that gives no audible feedback and snaps loose when it goes.

[chrisbryan89]

...I pass people on race tires all the time. I can count on two hands the number of guys that use them properly... Their lap times are 5 seconds slower than the fastest a street tire could do.

But it's not a race right West? I mean that is what you said when you got passed by an A4... It's not a race

[AKPS4]

The race tires are so good they hide all of your mistakes. The street tires will yell at you if you screw up slightly. Like the difference between a car and a go kart. The go kart punishes you for every mistake because there is no suspension. So you learn from the kart more than the $50k car.

Using race tires before you are at the top of the game will arrest your learning of how to drive a perfect line.

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I try not to post in these types if threads but I just couldn't resist. You just contradicted yourself here and you are comparing the PSS the race tires from 15-20 years ago... Try and compare to race tire technology from today. PSS tires were not available 15-20 years ago.

Also, all the cars you pass that run R888's or other race tires are guys with less track experience, slower cars, less suspension work or a number if other reasons. Your comparison has no justification. People are trying to out some sense into you but there is obviously no use. Dedicated race tires will help and you continue to preach otherwise but still have never run a session with race tires.

Similar to your preaching about the M3 and then how you completely flipped on it, you would do the same with race tires if you actually used them.

[westwest888]

Dedicated race tires would help me find the limits of the wet oil sump. I'm trying to learn something. I don't need to corner at 1.2G in a car not designed to do that.

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[westwest888]

Marcel you have not recommended a suspension to me. Are you brave enough to test JRZ for me? It is $3600 because the only option is a rear suspension coilover for $200 more, which is racecar only.

Let's go 2 for 1.

The spring discussion was about the GMG spring, not the JRZ coilover spring which is linear. There are different rates available for no extra charge. Would love to hear what spring rates you think are ideal for my chariot. If you have an opinion.

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[westwest888]

Marcel and I have not been on track at the same time for about a year. I've passed many a wagon but I don't think it was him. He underestimates the advancement of the prodigal son.

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[chrisbryan89]

Actually I did recommend a suspension if you wanted something beyond what I'm already running. Go back and you'll find it...

Bravery is not the issue. It would be a lateral move for me as far as suspensions go (no pun intended).

As for the spring rates, I know what works for me and have several sets of coils...but I'm not about to help Fabryce with R&D for free...


I underestimate nothing because I follow the 10 Commandments...
especially 7 and 8 when on track.

7. Thou shalt Keep It Simple, Stupid.

8. Thou shalt never assume.


To catch me, you must be quick.
To beat me, (you've got to be kidding!)

And...yes...you were just beaten by a wagon (I reappropriated that from quattro.gmbh)[evilsmile]

Haha love this guys posts... Especially as they apply to west


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[westwest888]

As for the spring rates, I know what works for me and have several sets of coils...but I'm not about to help Fabryce with R&D for free...


As you've framed it, there is a million ways for me to hang myself. No one is going to make a profit if you recommend a spring rate. Most buyers don't even care or understand, so there is no marketing advantage. What spring rates would you run on an S4 and on your car? Within 50 pounds. For example, suggest something like 550 front 450 rear.

[westwest888]

http://vimeo.com/41338637

http://i57.tinypic.com/20ru2qu.jpg

[*Blue-Angel*]

H&R RSS+ gets my vote. Fully adjustable, linear rate springs & monotube dampers at almost half the price. I got a set I won't be using for some time so I may put it FS

[westwest888]

I'm still going to replace my dampers. If I can't get good info on aftermarket springs I can stick with the OEM springs, which I like.

[ejohnson]

...so instead of going with a well sorted system, you'll just take the cheap and foolish route? Got it. ...just wanted to make sure I understood you. makes perfect sense when I look at it through Westlogic lenses.[cool]

You could save some weight by removing the rubber hose from the compressor side of your turbo as well since it's not really necessary for the turbine to spin.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Where were you? Oh yeah stock springs with some aftermarket dampers... sounds brilliant. LMK how that works out for you....[:D]

Have you considered adding value to the forums, or are you more interested in chasing West from thread to thread?

[SwankPeRFection]

Have you considered adding value to the forums, or are you more interested in chasing West from thread to thread?

You mean to tell us not only does he chase West on the track, but he's now chasing him on the forums too?... [:p]


http://www.sharegif.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/oh-snap-gif-1.gif

[integroid]

Have you considered adding value to the forums, or are you more interested in chasing West from thread to thread?

I think he is adding a ton of value by putting west in his place. What idiot would run aftermarket dampers with stock springs and think it will handle better than stock on a track. Those stock springs are rated to work with the stock dampers.....Kind of like people that put Really high sprung aftermarket springs on their car with stock dampers and wonder why it bounces. The sad part about it is some people (very few I hope) on here might actually listen to west and end up ruining their ride quality.

[paul]

I think he is adding a ton of value by putting west in his place. What idiot would run aftermarket dampers with stock springs and think it will handle better than stock on a track. Those stock springs are rated to work with the stock dampers.....Kind of like people that put Really high sprung aftermarket springs on their car with stock dampers and wonder why it bounces. The sad part about it is some people (very few I hope) on here might actually listen to west and end up ruining their ride quality.

Well to be honest this is a common practice in stock class autox. Back in the early 2000s the competitive B5 A4 was running penske shocks on stock springs since stock class didn't permit you to change springs. There is value in running aftermarket dampers but it's only when other rules prevent you from changing out the springs to further reduce roll. Stock dampers are cheap and tuned for comfort and a wide range of loads rather than be designed to tackle track duty. That said to drop that type of cash on just dampers without a tuned setup as a hole doesn't make much sense to me either.

[ejohnson]

You mean to tell us not only does he chase West on the track, but he's now chasing him on the forums too?... [:p]


http://www.sharegif.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/oh-snap-gif-1.gif

Guess I sort of handed you that one huh [:/]

[integroid]

Well to be honest this is a common practice in stock class autox. Back in the early 2000s the competitive B5 A4 was running penske shocks on stock springs since stock class didn't permit you to change springs. There is value in running aftermarket dampers but it's only when other rules prevent you from changing out the springs to further reduce roll. Stock dampers are cheap and tuned for comfort and a wide range of loads rather than be designed to tackle track duty. That said to drop that type of cash on just dampers without a tuned setup as a hole doesn't make much sense to me either.

Yeah, forgot about the silly AutoX stock class. We all know West doesnt autoX his car competitively and he is just a wannabe track day guy. Meaning he has no limitations on what he can run on his car.

[westwest888]

Yeah, forgot about the silly AutoX stock class. We all know West doesnt autoX his car competitively and he is just a wannabe track day guy. Meaning he has no limitations on what he can run on his car.

I do enjoy more than 30 seconds of track time per day and I'm not in high school, so you will find me at the big boy track.

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[westwest888]

I think he is adding a ton of value by putting west in his place. What idiot would run aftermarket dampers with stock springs and think it will handle better than stock on a track. Those stock springs are rated to work with the stock dampers.....Kind of like people that put Really high sprung aftermarket springs on their car with stock dampers and wonder why it bounces. The sad part about it is some people (very few I hope) on here might actually listen to west and end up ruining their ride quality.

http://cdn-static.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeek/files/styles/insert_main_wide_image/public/the_fight.jpg?itok=cJjFBlA0

First, nobody increases the bullshit level of my thread without me steering us there. How dare all of you.

Second, these are custom dampers and you can choose to have them built for an OEM spring height or for a custom spring. There is no chance of someone accidentally ordering the wrong shit for $4000. This is a deep consultation type of purchase. Not a Memorial Day mod bargain group buy. At least not yet. westwest888 has to pioneer, jump in the deep end of the pool, etc. There are many people on the 335i and M3 platform running a stock spring with this kit. It is an option.

Third, Marcel and I have a loose nonverbal understanding sealed over Japanese whiskey. It's about as strong as Russia and Crimea. I may have to invade the A4 forum as a show of force, but he's welcome here. Marcel simply doesn't know what spring rate the car should have. Put up (numbers) or shut up.

[AQuattro]

In terms of personal skill level, I'm at a point where I have the Pilot Super Sports howling on most every turn at my two most frequented tracks, Laguna and Thunderhill.

This is a joke right? Anyone who spends one session with a qualified instructor knows the noises your tires make have nothing to do with skill level. I bet you also "chirp 3rd gear...... yo"


This isn't my first rodeo.

It sure sounds like it.


The race tires are so good they hide all of your mistakes.

Spend a session with a qualified instructor and they'll teach you how to spot your mistakes. Why spend so much money on something that's not your weakest link? Get the most out of good tires first, then upgrade to adjustable suspension.

[drob23]

Spend a session with a qualified instructor and they'll teach you how to spot your mistakes. Why spend so much money on something that's not your weakest link? Get the most out of good tires first, then upgrade your suspension.

You realize that West is an "instructor" at the HPDE's he goes to...

To his students:
http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/8d/8dd86f0316aefc5e7b68251d555a5e860156f03394fab88cfa 98dac7c0a9a63b.jpg

[westwest888]

This is a joke right? Anyone who spends one session with a qualified instructor knows the noises your tires make have nothing to do with skill level. I bet you also "chirp 3rd gear...... yo"

It sure sounds like it.

Spend a session with a qualified instructor and they'll teach you how to spot your mistakes. Why spend so much money on something that's not your weakest link? Get the most out of good tires first, then upgrade to adjustable suspension.

I'd be happy to have you sit in the right seat and give me some pointers. A lifetime of learning. Where do you live, anonymous?

[AQuattro]

I'd be happy to have you sit in the right seat and give me some pointers.

Sorry but you couldn't pay me enough. Why don't you ask GMG to set you up with one of their drivers? I guarantee you'd get way more performance out of 5k worth of instruction than out of the suspension.

[westwest888]

Sorry but you couldn't pay me enough. Why don't you ask GMG to set you up with one of their drivers? I guarantee you'd get way more performance out of 5k worth of instruction than out of the suspension.

Well now you are a known quantity to the forum. Carry on.

I'm the guy who is out there getting it done. You're making anonymous comments on the Internet from a position as low as the dirt on my sandals. Your collaboration attempt fell short, friend.

[AQuattro]

I'm the guy who is out there getting it done.

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4648814080/h8B348DA6/

[westwest888]

Let's get back to collecting information from the Internet:

"JRZ RS1 is digressive on compression and linear on rebound"

"The nice thing about JRZ shocks is that the shock is strong enough to compensate for lower spring rates "

"Both fixed height [OEM spring] or height adjustable systems are available"

[westwest888]

I do not have enough information to proceed. Also, I may want to go to Tahoe this winter and I can throw some Bridgestone Blizzaks on the peelers. If I'm all slammed on JRZ that won't be possible.

Laphroaig on you next time!

Sent from Sony Android by Google Play

[QUA77RO]

I do not have enough information to proceed. Also, I may want to go to Tahoe this winter and I can throw some Bridgestone Blizzaks on the peelers. If I'm all slammed on JRZ that won't be possible.

Laphroaig on you next time!

You need Michelin's for Tahoe not Bridgestone...
Sounds like once you get a proper suspension of any kind, that you are saying you won't be returning to LT.

Laphroaig is savored not worn...[facepalm]

[dii]

I just want to say that I think this thread is amazing and totally worthy of being late night reading material. Thread of the year! Long live god's chariot!

Don't have much to offer in terms of value on my end but I trust TAG and they set me up well on the KW DDC + HLS combo. It cost a fuckton but I was more intent on something that would allow me to go off-roading (kidding, calm down) and then go zipping around the track (Laguna Seca is fucking awesome) at a push of a button, PLUS the fact that I can go up my driveway without going sideways and/or hating myself.

Anyways, I had a point (I think). It didn't take long until I realized I'm a complete idiot and will probably never be able to tune my S4 to be the track star that west envisions his should be, or more specifically, the crazy smart track gurus who spend crazy amounts of time researching and testing to get things properly dialed in which is why I ended up getting a car dedicated for the track (you wish it was my bagged A5).

MY POINT, if you've made it this far, can be summed up with the below picture, which I feel is very relevant to a lot of posts I've skimmed regarding making the chariot the ultimate driving machine and even applies to west as he tries to have a track monster while using summer tires yet still get to Tahoe safely in 4x4 mode:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/22/a4ynapeq.jpg

At some point you gotta decide where you wanna go.

Thank you gentlemen, it's been an honor. My next post on Audizine is scheduled somewhere between August and Taco Tuesday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jimminez]

^ great post IMO, including Taco Tuesday.

[will13k7]

mmmmm..... tacos.

[westwest888]

I just want to say that I think this thread is amazing and totally worthy of being late night reading material. Thread of the year! Long live god's chariot!

Don't have much to offer in terms of value on my end but I trust TAG and they set me up well on the KW DDC + HLS combo. It cost a fuckton but I was more intent on something that would allow me to go off-roading (kidding, calm down) and then go zipping around the track (Laguna Seca is fucking awesome) at a push of a button, PLUS the fact that I can go up my driveway without going sideways and/or hating myself.

Anyways, I had a point (I think). It didn't take long until I realized I'm a complete idiot and will probably never be able to tune my S4 to be the track star that west envisions his should be, or more specifically, the crazy smart track gurus who spend crazy amounts of time researching and testing to get things properly dialed in which is why I ended up getting a car dedicated for the track (you wish it was my bagged A5).

MY POINT, if you've made it this far, can be summed up with the below picture, which I feel is very relevant to a lot of posts I've skimmed regarding making the chariot the ultimate driving machine and even applies to west as he tries to have a track monster while using summer tires yet still get to Tahoe safely in 4x4 mode:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/22/a4ynapeq.jpg

At some point you gotta decide where you wanna go.

Thank you gentlemen, it's been an honor. My next post on Audizine is scheduled somewhere between August and Taco Tuesday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is exactly the type of behavior I want to encourage on this forum. Thanks for going lurker -> poster. I have a lot of strong opinions about what works for me and what can work for you if you're like me. Diversity will come from people who do something slightly different. The key word is "do something" rather than "type something" or "troll something".

What did you pick up or will you pick up as a track car?

[AQuattro]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/22/a4ynapeq.jpg

At some point you gotta decide where you wanna go.


This. Anyone I know who's serious about the track and can afford it has a dedicated car. For me the biggest advantage is the safety equipment. It's not realistic to put a roll bar or cage, fixed back seats, and harnesses in a daily driver. You also don't need to compromise on vehicle setup.

[westwest888]

This. Anyone I know who's serious about the track and can afford it has a dedicated car. For me the biggest advantage is the safety equipment. It's not realistic to put a roll bar or cage, fixed back seats, and harnesses in a daily driver. You also don't need to compromise on vehicle setup.

I think "track car" is an oxymoron. If it's not open wheel, it's not good for the track. It's a compromise.

You can enjoy taking a street car on track more than you can enjoy driving a street car on road. If you just want to make a fast time, pick up a used open wheel car for $20k. The S4 can even tow it!

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mjJqUUiU0QQjrAOP4F6IzuA.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Formula-Mazda-Race-Car-/151303999927?forcerrptr=true&hash=item233a6bd1b7&item=151303999927&pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_

[dii]

What did you pick up or will you pick up as a track car?

My R8. I'm literally at the point where I'm going to take the track car route. I last took it to Thunderhill Raceway a few weeks ago and I'm pretty much set on turning it into a track only vehicle - too much attention on public roads, not my style. Over the summer I plan on having a roll bar, recaro seats, and 5/6-point belts installed so I'm as undisturbed as possible in the drivers seat to truly learn how to control the car as I increase the speed. From there I'll try and determine what needs tuning or adjustment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AQuattro]

I think "track car" is an oxymoron. If it's not open wheel, it's not good for the track. It's a compromise.

You can enjoy taking a street car on track more than you can enjoy driving a street car on road. If you just want to make a fast time, pick up a used open wheel car for $20k. The S4 can even tow it!


So a GT3 cup car isn't a track car? Or what about a Radical? It also has fenders. How about all of those non-open wheeled cars that race at Le Mans? Not real track cars?

Lots of people with track cars still have an enjoyable street vehicle.

Open wheel cars are fun but track time can difficult to find since they don't mix well with 4000 lb S4s.

[IanCH]

I think "track car" is an oxymoron. If it's not open wheel, it's not good for the track. It's a compromise.

You can enjoy taking a street car on track more than you can enjoy driving a street car on road. If you just want to make a fast time, pick up a used open wheel car for $20k. The S4 can even tow it!

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mjJqUUiU0QQjrAOP4F6IzuA.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Formula-Mazda-Race-Car-/151303999927?forcerrptr=true&hash=item233a6bd1b7&item=151303999927&pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_

lol, know what reserve means?

[QUA77RO]

This is exactly the type of behavior I want to encourage on this forum. Thanks for going lurker -> poster. I have a lot of strong opinions about what works for me and what can work for you if you're like me. Diversity will come from people who do something slightly different. The key word is "do something" rather than "type something" or "troll something".

What did you pick up or will you pick up as a track car?

dii is "people who do something slightly different"

...Hell he has the only RS4 bodied B8 S4 in the world (as seen at Quattro de Seca and on the cover of european car magazine), a badass R8, as well as an A5 hairdryer...[:D]
...unlike you who just talk trash and troll yourself. Are you sure that you weren't banned on rennlist already like the bmw forums?

[westwest888]

Actually Marcel, racecar is a palindrome.

[westwest888]

My R8. I'm literally at the point where I'm going to take the track car route. I last took it to Thunderhill Raceway a few weeks ago and I'm pretty much set on turning it into a track only vehicle - too much attention on public roads, not my style. Over the summer I plan on having a roll bar, recaro seats, and 5/6-point belts installed so I'm as undisturbed as possible in the drivers seat to truly learn how to control the car as I increase the speed. From there I'll try and determine what needs tuning or adjustment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I think I was parked next to you by the trees. You had the gray R8 with all of the TAG logo's on it?

I agree that the R8 is on the deep end of how flashy a car I would feel comfortable driving around. Unless you were just tooling around Pebble Beach or Newport Beach in a Ferrari for local 3 mile trips. But honestly that car deserves to be on a track.

http://i57.tinypic.com/24xo28i.jpg

[westwest888]

Does parking near someone make you feel loose unspoken bonds of friendship?


Tolerance. Co-existence. Ability to execute without sidelining someone else's mission.

Here is some wagon pornopgrahy to distract you while I venture out into the real world. I should register the domain fifthdoorsolos.com. Are there many of you out there?

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/961x645+216+197/resize/628x417!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/19f1efeb7050b345710a40ce36abde1e/200151015/mercedes-benz-c-class-estate-14.jpg

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/2a58971a7cebc43915216c1e76ef2183/200146737/001-volkswagen-golf-r-wagon-spy-shots_628opt.jpg

http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/BMW-F10-M5-Touring-Wagon.jpg

http://carlook.net/data/db_photos/alpina/b5/f10_f11/alpina_b5_f10_f11_touring5d-508.jpg

[QUA77RO]

Tolerance. Co-existence. Ability to execute without sidelining someone else's mission.


“They were and are children of privilege... the privilege taught, learned, and imbibed, in a "liberal arts education" is the privilege to indict. These children have, in the main, never worked, learned to obey, command, construct, amend, or complete - to actually contribute to the society. They have learned to be shrill, and that their indictment, on the economy, on sex, on race, on the environment, though based on no experience other than hearsay, must trump any discourse, let alone opposition. It occurred to me that I had seen this behavior elsewhere, where it was called developmental difficulty.”
― David Mamet, The Secret Knowledge: On the Dismantling of American Culture
Something to ponder...

[westwest888]

Seems like this kit is great with a softer spring, like an OEM sport spring or and H&R OE (if you must have lower ground clearance).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQXIdaCEcr8

[SwankPeRFection]

http://i57.tinypic.com/24xo28i.jpg

You know how I know you're gay?


Every single one of your wheels is curbed. [;)]

[westwest888]

Suggested spring rate is 500 front, 600 rear. Eibach.

[Moto One]

Let's get back to the basic's of this post. I have been a user of JRZ's on a number of different class cars, from my T-1 to my Solo National Tour car (witch is also my DD and Track day car) for the past 13 years. And the fact is that JRZ makes a great product that last, I have over 100k on the DD with no noticeable change in function, plus they are totally serviceable. I do recommend the DA's (double adjust) over a single adjust shocks so that you can dial in Track/Autocross/Street settings as need (and yes with stock spring rates they make a huge difference in handling). There is also a third adjustment with the DA's and that is the Gas Charge Pressure setting that acts as a spring rate boost to fit your needs. Having adjustable ride hight is a must to take advantage of this so as not to upset alignment settings.

Just my 2 cents

Mark

[evobeatsti]

I pay someone that talks to someone who has properly set up a track car. What could go right?

In terms of personal skill level, I'm at a point where I have the Pilot Super Sports howling on most every turn at my two most frequented tracks, Laguna and Thunderhill. It's time for me to go to a much more serious suspension setup, and spend a season or two finding the edge of that. I have to admit I like the idea of front aero and forcing the air out from under the car, like this:

http://image.hotrod.com/f/techarticles/9354560+w799+h499+cr1+ar0/113_0510_aero_11_z%2Baerodynamic_tips_tricks%2Bcam aro_air_dam.jpg

Um, Why don't you just get better tires?????????? Any real track driver or suspension guy will tell you you have to setup a suspension based on your tire choice so it sounds pretty stupid to spend this much on suspension to set it up for PSS. Go get yourself some R Comps at least...

For example I had to completely readjust my suspension when going from a Hoosier R6 to a BFG R1, Different Camber, Dampening, Toe etc to make the car go fast.

So try some tires, get to know and love one, then get the suspension...

[westwest888]

Um, Why don't you just get better tires?????????? Any real track driver or suspension guy will tell you you have to setup a suspension based on your tire choice so it sounds pretty stupid to spend this much on suspension to set it up for PSS. Go get yourself some R Comps at least...

For example I had to completely readjust my suspension when going from a Hoosier R6 to a BFG R1, Different Camber, Dampening, Toe etc to make the car go fast.

So try some tires, get to know and love one, then get the suspension...

I have some pilot sport cups on the way. It's not going to be a radically different alignment than I have right now. Most real people that take their cars on track during the weekend can't extract 10/10 out of a PSS. It's an incredibly capable tire that lets you know when you are driving improperly, so you can fix that.

[evobeatsti]

I do not have enough information to proceed. Also, I may want to go to Tahoe this winter and I can throw some Bridgestone Blizzaks on the peelers. If I'm all slammed on JRZ that won't be possible.

Laphroaig on you next time!

Sent from Sony Android by Google Play

I ran a slammed car on Ohlins double adjustables for 2 winters in Park City Utah with absolutely no problems on Blizzaks

[1MORLAP]

Suggested spring rate is 500 front, 600 rear. Eibach.

What size? I have tons around that I just need to dump.

[westwest888]

Someone with an A4 is on the S4 forum. Maybe I should just go to Porsche events so I can feel as out of place as him.

Sent from Sony Android by Google Play

[westwest888]

Someone want to help me pick springs?

http://www.swiftsprings.net/products/universal/metric-coilover-springs-70.html

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/234/765/b7e.jpg

[USAFS4]

So I believe these are being used on the New Volvo S/V60 Polestar cars, which are similar in overall and distribution of weight. Why not just start with the same settings they use on those cars? Seems like a good place to start.