View Full Version : Cam chain tensioner possible issue, advice needed
Hi guys...
I searched and found some information regarding this, but I can't figure out exactly if I need to address this or not, and if so, how urgently (this is the "advice needed" part).
The car is driving fine, doesn't drink much oil, and pulls ok. It has around 60K miles (100K km). The cam follower was replaced 5000 km ago. Everything else, you'll find in my sig...
Problem is: the engine sounds like a diesel mostly between 1500-2500 RPM under medium load (not present under moderate load or at full throttle), and I can hear a chain rattle upon start, intermittently (maybe 1/10 starts but I don't keep records). All this sounds like a potential cam chain tensioner issue (the chain rattle is the give away I think). Fixing this now will cost a lot of money (like 1000$+), and not fixing it can result in a catastrophic engine failure.
I can't fix this myself... I'm not sufficiently mechanically inclined to do this (I'm ok with brakes, the cam follower, and some other stuff, but not something like that), so it's not even an option. A shop will charge 6-7 hours just to go have a look + parts if they need changing.
At this point I don't know what to do with this. Shell out the cash, just replace the damn tensioner, and cry because I'm out 1000$+. Or wait... and maybe cry a lot more later if it fails and causes a shitload of other shit (like, a new engine...). Or just effing sell the car because I has more issues than all the other 10 cars I have owned all together... I would probably loose more money by selling it, so I may just effing shell out the money and fix it. The question is: should I. Like, right now (or soon). Or should I wait and see what happens, and hope it doesn't fail completely...? [:/]
To do the CCT you need to pull the top plate of the head off, to slide one cam over a bit, I would imagine this will be 7-9 hours plus parts so somewhere in the range of $1300. If you have to rebuild your head down the road for having a failure, you would have to factor the cost of valves in and possibly lifter/rockers if any are damaged. I would replace it if you are hearing the chain slap. If you knew you had cancer you wouldn't put it off, same thing with cars, if you can fix something now that will prevent you from blowing up your car then why not get it out of the way?
Sers toi d'un tournevis comme stéthoscope sur la partie arrière du moteur et vérifie si le son est plus fort qu'il l'est ailleur sur le moteur et vérifie si quand tu éteints ton auto tu as un bruit de métal, voir un ding ding ding, le tensionneur et la chaine sont fort probablement dû.
Yeah yeah (https://translate.google.ca/#auto/en/Sert%20toi%20d%27un%20tournevis%20comme%20st%C3%A9 thoscope%20sur%20la%20portion%20arri%C3%A8re%20du% 20moteur%20et%20v%C3%A9rifie%20si%20le%20son%20est %20plus%20fort%20qu%27il%20l%27est%20ailleur%20sur %20le%20moteur%20et%20v%C3%A9rifie%20si%20quand%20 tu%20%C3%A9teints%20ton%20auto%20tu%20as%20un%20br uit%20de%20m%C3%A9tal%2C%20voir%20un%20ding%20ding %20ding%2C%20le%20tensionneur%20et%20la%20chaine%2 0sont%20fort%20probablement%20d%C3%BB.)
Hijack Perkins
05-13-2014, 12:53 PM
I just got this done not to long ago and it ran be 1150 total with genuine audi parts. Shop wouldn't let me supply them parts, something about warrenty, if you could buy the parts yourself and get a shop to just do labor you could most likely get it done for 900ish total. Mine could be heard at idle real bad after the motor came up to temp. Good luck and don't wait to get it fixed
billyhoyle
05-13-2014, 12:57 PM
Hijack, any chance you have sound clips of what your failing tensioner sounded like?
I just got this done not to long ago and it ran be 1150 total with genuine audi parts. Shop wouldn't let me supply them parts, something about warrenty, if you could buy the parts yourself and get a shop to just do labor you could most likely get it done for 900ish total. Mine could be heard at idle real bad after the motor came up to temp. Good luck and don't wait to get it fixed
$1150 isn't too bad. Has anyone else noticed that OEM parts have gone up in pricing? I get a 22% discount at my local dealer since I buy so many parts, but it is usually cheaper to use GAP since they give you likek 30% discount and no tax ( i am in colorado), but recently their prices seem to have gone up like 30-50%. I called about a headgasket. I had purchased a head gasket 4 months ago for $45, now they wanted $92 for it!!!
To do the CCT you need to pull the top plate of the head off, to slide one cam over a bit, I would imagine this will be 7-9 hours plus parts so somewhere in the range of $1300. If you have to rebuild your head down the road for having a failure, you would have to factor the cost of valves in and possibly lifter/rockers if any are damaged. I would replace it if you are hearing the chain slap. If you knew you had cancer you wouldn't put it off, same thing with cars, if you can fix something now that will prevent you from blowing up your car then why not get it out of the way?
Yeah, I guess I have no choice... Let's say I didn't plan this at all. I'm used to owning cars that have low maintenance. Like my last TSX 2005 (bought it used in 2008), in 4 years of ownership I replaced the brakes, that's it. Now, the A4: turbo, TB, brakes, cam follower, rust, and now CCT. The turbo at least was replace under warranty. Still makes it the car with the highest TCO so far, and by a wide margin. The worse part is that it's "normal" for our cars. [:(]
Sers toi d'un tournevis comme stéthoscope sur la partie arrière du moteur et vérifie si le son est plus fort qu'il l'est ailleur sur le moteur et vérifie si quand tu éteints ton auto tu as un bruit de métal, voir un ding ding ding, le tensionneur et la chaine sont fort probablement dû.
Yeah yeah (https://translate.google.ca/#auto/en/Sert%20toi%20d%27un%20tournevis%20comme%20st%C3%A9 thoscope%20sur%20la%20portion%20arri%C3%A8re%20du% 20moteur%20et%20v%C3%A9rifie%20si%20le%20son%20est %20plus%20fort%20qu%27il%20l%27est%20ailleur%20sur %20le%20moteur%20et%20v%C3%A9rifie%20si%20quand%20 tu%20%C3%A9teints%20ton%20auto%20tu%20as%20un%20br uit%20de%20m%C3%A9tal%2C%20voir%20un%20ding%20ding %20ding%2C%20le%20tensionneur%20et%20la%20chaine%2 0sont%20fort%20probablement%20d%C3%BB.)
There's that weird noise when I turn it off too, but I can't really describe it. Not a "ding" noise, more "clunk"...
I just got this done not to long ago and it ran be 1150 total with genuine audi parts. Shop wouldn't let me supply them parts, something about warrenty, if you could buy the parts yourself and get a shop to just do labor you could most likely get it done for 900ish total. Mine could be heard at idle real bad after the motor came up to temp. Good luck and don't wait to get it fixed
Shops around here don't like it much when I get the parts myself, it's way harder to get service after... It's like "not my problem if the parts you got were defective". It's a lot more difficult to argue when and if you have issues with the repairs...
Hijack, any chance you have sound clips of what your failing tensioner sounded like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QunZVBaDRx8
Not mine, took it from this thread:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/593088-Diesel-like-sound-coming-from-engine-along-with-rough-start-up-noise-and-vibration?highlight=cam+chain+tensioner
It sounds a lot like mine, but it's not doing it all the time.
Polski
05-13-2014, 01:41 PM
Wait...arent the engines covered by audi canada up to 200k km if the cams fail? (in this case, due to a worn tensioner)
Wouldn't this be a great way to score a new(ish) engine?
Hijack Perkins
05-13-2014, 03:08 PM
Hijack, any chance you have sound clips of what your failing tensioner sounded like?
No I don't but put a screwdriver on the chain cover with you ear up to it and it will sound like a jack hammer. I had no noise when the car started up cold but when the oil came up to temp it rattled like a cummins at idle.
Wait...arent the engines covered by audi canada up to 200k km if the cams fail? (in this case, due to a worn tensioner)
Wouldn't this be a great way to score a new(ish) engine?
Are you referring to the cam follower extended warranty?? Not sure it would cover this, and 2008 aren't covered anyways. According to Audi, they fixed the problem in 2008 (loads of BS of course, it's as bad as before) and we're left with our own shit to deal with if it fails. That's why I replaced the cam follower before my warranty expired last March. But I didn't notice the tensioner issue before. Anyway, I'm sure they would have refused to check it out unless the engine was completely effed-up.
Sers toi d'un tournevis comme stéthoscope sur la partie arrière du moteur et vérifie si le son est plus fort qu'il l'est ailleur sur le moteur et vérifie si quand tu éteints ton auto tu as un bruit de métal, voir un ding ding ding, le tensionneur et la chaine sont fort probablement dû.
Yeah yeah (https://translate.google.ca/#auto/en/Sert%20toi%20d%27un%20tournevis%20comme%20st%C3%A9 thoscope%20sur%20la%20portion%20arri%C3%A8re%20du% 20moteur%20et%20v%C3%A9rifie%20si%20le%20son%20est %20plus%20fort%20qu%27il%20l%27est%20ailleur%20sur %20le%20moteur%20et%20v%C3%A9rifie%20si%20quand%20 tu%20%C3%A9teints%20ton%20auto%20tu%20as%20un%20br uit%20de%20m%C3%A9tal%2C%20voir%20un%20ding%20ding %20ding%2C%20le%20tensionneur%20et%20la%20chaine%2 0sont%20fort%20probablement%20d%C3%BB.)
I did that (used a screwdriver as a stethoscope) and I can hear a loud "toc toc toc toc toc toc" coming from under the cam chain cover. It's probably a bad thing... [confused] I can't really hear it without the screwdriver though.
Jake@JHM
05-13-2014, 05:29 PM
Would anyone happen to have photos of a failed mechanical cam adjuster that has been taken apart?
On the B6-B7 S4 these mechanical adjusters fail and cause a rattle on start up.
https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10174939_10152371119416807_748433152_n.jpg
Here is a photo that has a drive side mechanical adjuster that is worn out much worse than the passenger side. Those holes are not supposed to be oblonged and over time they slower get bigger and bigger until the pin can lo longer stay in the hole which causes the rattle.
Not the same problem as the 2.0T, from what I can grab here and there, this thing is causing the issue :
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/159045_x800.jpg
Who at Audi thought that putting plastic there was a good idea?? Really??
Jake@JHM
05-13-2014, 06:03 PM
Yeah, I understand that issue and the fact that the plastic actually dissapears eventually from the tensioner. However, people have also had cam adjuster failures on the 2.0T and one of those symptoms is a cold start rattle and when really bad it rattles all of the time.
Not the same problem as the 2.0T, from what I can grab here and there, this thing is causing the issue :
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/159045_x800.jpg
Who at Audi thought that putting plastic there was a good idea?? Really??
That plastic is a great idea. What else would you use? Jello? it would shred right through it. Fresh babies? they would never stop crying. Metal? it would wear out the chain in no time.
Yeah, I understand that issue and the fact that the plastic actually dissapears eventually from the tensioner. However, people have also had cam adjuster failures on the 2.0T and one of those symptoms is a cold start rattle and when really bad it rattles all of the time.
Ok, I didn't know that...
Jake, I am not sure if we have seen the variator fail without actually causing pistons and valves to make sweet love.
What we have seen is the n205 go bad which controls the variator and guys who replace that claim better mpg's and other magic shenanigans.
That plastic is a great idea. What else would you use? Jello? it would shred right through it. Fresh babies? they would never stop crying. Metal? it would wear out the chain in no time.
The hell if I know... But I get your point... Although to me it's poorly designed and a pain to replace on our cars.
The hell if I know... But I get your point... Although to me it's poorly designed and a pain to replace on our cars.
I've always been curious if its the spring that wears out in the tensioner, people say they get chain slap. Is that because of the variator slouching, or is the spring in the tensioner is worn out, or is it that there is insufficinet oil pressure. Generally most of the guys with tensioner issues report an oil pressure light as well.
Hijack Perkins
05-13-2014, 06:18 PM
I've always been curious if its the spring that wears out in the tensioner, people say they get chain slap. Is that because of the variator slouching, or is the spring in the tensioner is worn out, or is it that there is insufficinet oil pressure. Generally most of the guys with tensioner issues report an oil pressure light as well.
When my oil thinned out is when it would rattle badly
I've always been curious if its the spring that wears out in the tensioner, people say they get chain slap. Is that because of the variator slouching, or is the spring in the tensioner is worn out, or is it that there is insufficinet oil pressure. Generally most of the guys with tensioner issues report an oil pressure light as well.
Good question. I have no oil pressure light. Maybe I'll get one eventually. Maybe not. Maybe my issue isn't with the tensioner. I'm just guessing here. I went to an indie shop specialized in WW/Audi/Porsche this morning, the guy said he can't be sure unless they open it and have a look. That's when the 6-7 hours of labor was mentioned... [:/]
When my oil thinned out is when it would rattle badly
did you try running thicker oil to see if it would alleviate the rattle?
kegobeer
05-13-2014, 06:41 PM
did you try running thicker oil to see if it would alleviate the rattle?
You are on a roll tonite! Your posts in the last hour or two have been fucking awesome!
Hijack Perkins
05-13-2014, 07:39 PM
did you try running thicker oil to see if it would alleviate the rattle?
That worked for about 6k miles and that is when I got worried.
That worked for about 6k miles and that is when I got worried.
Worried about ?
Bucho126
05-13-2014, 08:48 PM
Would anyone happen to have photos of a failed mechanical cam adjuster that has been taken apart?
http://imageshack.com/a/img837/1881/8gkf.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img547/9529/z2qd.jpg
Here is mine, that broken piece is behind that hole with wear.
Hijack Perkins
05-14-2014, 04:30 AM
Worried about ?
The pistons and valves having a hot date and meeting with a bang.
I did that (used a screwdriver as a stethoscope) and I can hear a loud "toc toc toc toc toc toc" coming from under the cam chain cover. It's probably a bad thing... [confused] I can't really hear it without the screwdriver though.
Can someone confirm that this "toc toc toc toc toc" sound isn't normal? It's not a rattle, but a very precise "toc toc toc" sound (maybe 3-4 times a sec at idle). I can hear a chain sound in the background, but it isn't very loud.
Can't really hear it without putting the screwdriver on the cam chain cover. It's probably there, but it isn't loud enough to hear over the engine noise, at idle at least...
Hijack Perkins
05-14-2014, 05:34 AM
Can someone confirm that this "toc toc toc toc toc" sound isn't normal? It's not a rattle, but a very precise "toc toc toc" sound (maybe 3-4 times a sec at idle). I can hear a chain sound in the background, but it isn't very loud.
Can't really hear it without putting the screwdriver on the cam chain cover. It's probably there, but it isn't loud enough to hear over the engine noise, at idle at least...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjoK0KGn4z8
Not my video but this is what mine sounded like. Notice at the end of the video the camera panes to the right and you can hear the slack in the chain, hope this helps. Btw how do you like the Uni Stage 2?
xander3zero
05-14-2014, 06:01 AM
Can someone post a video of an engine that sounds like normal?? Like someone who is sure they have no rattle? Now I'm second guessing the way mine sounds but it is hard to tell from these sound clips with no comparison to a healthy engine
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
The pistons and valves having a hot date and meeting with a bang.
Ha love it
RustyBucket
05-14-2014, 09:05 AM
That plastic is a great idea. What else would you use? Jello? it would shred right through it. Fresh babies? they would never stop crying. Metal? it would wear out the chain in no time.
How about a cog wheel set up similar to a belt tensioner?
Nissan had problems with plastic timing chain guides failing and causing catastrophic engine failure in their early VH45DE engines. That was fixed with metal backed guides for the 1994 model year. Here, we have the Germans 10+ years later not taking a lesson from the Japanese.
Jake@JHM
05-14-2014, 09:36 AM
http://imageshack.com/a/img837/1881/8gkf.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img547/9529/z2qd.jpg
Here is mine, that broken piece is behind that hole with wear.
Thanks for the pictures! Did you adjuster make the oblong hole just like the S4 ones pictured above?
Bucho126
05-14-2014, 09:42 AM
If I remember correctly, I didn't detect any wear like the s4's and I had 130k on it
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjoK0KGn4z8
Not my video but this is what mine sounded like. Notice at the end of the video the camera panes to the right and you can hear the slack in the chain, hope this helps. Btw how do you like the Uni Stage 2?
It helps yes and no... From the video I would say it sounds like my engine.... since I got it.... 2 years ago. I always felt it was noisy, mostly from the sound of the injectors. As Xander said, it's difficult to hear the difference because I have no comparison.
Uni stage 2 is good, I like it a lot. I would like it even better with a perfectly running car, and I don't feel I have that now, but it's good. It's even better with a cat-back, with just the HFC and DP it felt weird and I can't explain why, but I like it better with the cat-back and the power delivery is smoother when the turbo kicks in... Maybe just in my head though. But at the moment I hesitate to push the car a lot because I feel it can just crap itself at any moment, but I'm probably being way too paranoid and dramatic about this cam chain situation... [:/]
BTW, is the cam chain rattle on cold starts (it feels like it's slapping on the casing) really a sign that there's a problem with the chain and tensioner, or is it "normal"? I've read on a few occasions that it's normal because there's no oil up there on a cold start and it makes that noise for less than a second and it can be considered as normal as the oil takes some time to get there...
BTW, is the cam chain rattle on cold starts (it feels like it's slapping on the casing) really a sign that there's a problem with the chain and tensioner, or is it "normal"? I've read on a few occasions that it's normal because there's no oil up there on a cold start and it makes that noise for less than a second and it can be considered as normal as the oil takes some time to get there...
Bump, anybody can chime in and clear that up for me, please? [hail]
kegobeer
05-17-2014, 06:27 AM
I'll have my car back Tuesday or Wednesday with a brand new cam tensioner and chain. I'll record engine start and idle so you can compare the sound to your existing rattle. It's not definitive, but it will be something at least.
I'll have my car back Tuesday or Wednesday with a brand new cam tensioner and chain. I'll record engine start and idle so you can compare the sound to your existing rattle. It's not definitive, but it will be something at least.
Good, thanks! [up]
From what I can read, the chain slap/rattle at startup is considered "normal" by most... Unless someone here say otherwise. What I understand is the tensioner works with oil pressure, and on a cold start it take a bit of time for it to get there, which means the chain has a little more slack in it and it rattles and may slam the casing. Again, as I understand this, it is not a sign that there's something wrong with the tensioner. If I'm wrong here, please chime in.
My car is getting a checkup on Wednesday anyway for that diesel sound/rattle at low RPMs. It worries me. If it's not the CCT, then it's something else...
aluthman
05-17-2014, 07:23 AM
Good, thanks! [up]
From what I can read, the chain slap/rattle at startup is considered "normal" by most... Unless someone here say otherwise. What I understand is the tensioner works with oil pressure, and on a cold start it take a bit of time for it to get there, which means the chain has a little more slack in it and it rattles and may slam the casing. Again, as I understand this, it is not a sign that there's something wrong with the tensioner. If I'm wrong here, please chime in.
My car is getting a checkup on Wednesday anyway for that diesel sound/rattle at low RPMs. It worries me. If it's not the CCT, then it's something else...
There is a spring inside the tensioner that should keep tension on the chain. You shouldn't get a rattle, even on a cold start.
There is a spring inside the tensioner that should keep tension on the chain. You shouldn't get a rattle, even on a cold start.
Okay, new info to me, thanks. Then it's worth investigating. The problem is of course difficult to reproduce since it only happens on cold starts and not even all the time. [:/]
aluthman
05-17-2014, 08:12 AM
Can someone post a video of an engine that sounds like normal?? Like someone who is sure they have no rattle? Now I'm second guessing the way mine sounds but it is hard to tell from these sound clips with no comparison to a healthy engine
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Here is mine. I replaced my cam chain and tensioner about 18k miles ago. This was the first the car was started this morning so the start up vid is a bit stumbly. Hope it helps, all I had was my iphone.
Cold start
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D0YMCArhJE
After idle comes down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaWGre9BMnE
Shut off
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzhHLDSvPE
Thanks... Idle is a lot more smooth than mine. I have a knock that I can't hear on your vid. Here's mine, from startup to idle... This time I didn't get the chain rattle (of course I was recording [rolleyes]).
A bit long as I move around the engine, but I'd like to have you opinions. Sounds like a knock sound coming from the back of the engine, that's where I can clearly hear it coming from using a screwdriver as a stethoscope.
(Sorry for the very dirty engine and engine bay, still didn't find the courage to clean that shit up [headbang] )
Interesting moments would be at 2:30 and at the end around 3:40 when the knocking sound is more obvious.
[video replaced by shorter one]
I edited the video and kept only the necessary parts as I understand people don't have all day to look at my dirty engine bay... [;)] Again, all inputs are very much appreciated! [:D]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-E7XKUAIgs&feature=youtu.be
DolphinB7
05-18-2014, 08:02 AM
Sounds real similar to mine, but I just replaced my chain/tensioner not long ago.[headbang]
Sounds real similar to mine, but I just replaced my chain/tensioner not long ago.[headbang]
Your engine is THAT noisy and you already replaced the CCT? Damn... Was the tensioner broken in anyway? [confused]
My car is going in on Wednesday, but I still don't know exactly what to ask for beside "have a look, it's noisy, it doesn't sound good to me and I'm worried it will explode at any moment"... [:D]
I honestly don't want to spend 1000$+ to replace a part if it doesn't solve my problem... [headbang]
Jake@JHM
05-19-2014, 02:47 PM
These engines are pretty noisy as they are. I did't noticed anything abnormal in the video, but then again its not the same as hearing it in person.
perrytcolts
05-19-2014, 03:40 PM
I edited the video and kept only the necessary parts as I understand people don't have all day to look at my dirty engine bay... [;)] Again, all inputs are very much appreciated! [:D]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-E7XKUAIgs&feature=youtu.be
Mine sounds very similar to this at the moment. Trying to diagnose it. Have changed coil packs and plugs and the noise is still there. It does sound like the cam chain and tensioner.
These engines are pretty noisy as they are. I did't noticed anything abnormal in the video, but then again its not the same as hearing it in person.
Sounds the same as in person, even less so in fact as it is difficult to stand so close to the engine... I find it "disturbing" that it sounds normal to you, that "toc-toc-toc" sound is quite loud, but it is also difficult for me to compare and vids on Youtube don't always give a good idea. This may end up as me being paranoid. The problem is, how far do I need to go to convinced myself, and how much money will I spend to get to a point where I feel comfortable with it. I suppose it will depend on the answer I'll get on Wednesday when it'll enter the shop. If they feel there's nothing wrong with it, I may not push further.
Mine sounds very similar to this at the moment. Trying to diagnose it. Have changed coil packs and plugs and the noise is still there. It does sound like the cam chain and tensioner.
Wish I knew. This is my prime suspect. The problem is, is quite costly to replace, and if it isn't that, then what...?
Honestly, I don't really care about the sound. It's noisy, but it doesn't bother me. If it's normal, then it is. I just don't want to end up with a badly broken engine because I didn't take good care of it. So I'll see, and hope that the guy who will look at it knows what he's doing... [:/]
Jake@JHM
05-19-2014, 04:11 PM
I just re-watched the video on my work computer (first time was on my ipad). At the beginning the sounds are your injectors firing, but then when you go over the n205 valve I can kind of hear slightly different sound. Try removing the rear cover and taking a look back there.
I just re-watched the video on my work computer (first time was on my ipad). At the beginning the sounds are your injectors firing, but then when you go over the n205 valve I can kind of hear slightly different sound. Try removing the rear cover and taking a look back there.
That's what I was planning, although I can't do it myself...
Jake@JHM
05-19-2014, 04:22 PM
That's what I was planning, although I can't do it myself...
Do you have an reputable shops in your area?
pat_do
05-19-2014, 04:24 PM
Sounds all ok to me my 2008 sounds the same
Do you have an reputable shops in your area?
I have one. They specialize in Porsche and Audi, some Ferrari too. They have a good reputation, although I never did business with them because my car was CPO until last March. So I can't be sure. The guy I spoke to knew about the most common issues with our engines, including the cam chain tensioner, but he said it was quite rare. At least, he knew. That's my only choice, other than go to the dealer, and that's probably the last thing I wan't to do... [:/]
Jake@JHM
05-19-2014, 04:29 PM
I have one. They specialize in Porsche and Audi, some Ferrari too. They have a good reputation, although I never did business with them because my car was CPO until last March. So I can't be sure. The guy I spoke to knew about the most common issues with our engines, including the cam chain tensioner, but he said it was quite rare. At least, he knew. That's my only choice, other than go to the dealer, and that's probably the last thing I wan't to do... [:/]
Find out how much the charge to do a diagnosis. Shouldn't be too much.
Sounds all ok to me my 2008 sounds the same
Hey Pat! Well, that's intriguing.... or encouraging... not sure which one! [;)]
Find out how much the charge to do a diagnosis. Shouldn't be too much.
They'll probably charge me for the time... I think the guy suggested they remove the valve cover, and go from there depending on what they'll hear/see.
perrytcolts
05-19-2014, 05:15 PM
I think if you're gonna spend money to diagnose it and then some to repair/replace it, I would just spend the money and just have them replace the cam chain and tensioner straight off the bat.
I think if you're gonna spend money to diagnose it and then some to repair/replace it, I would just spend the money and just have them replace the cam chain and tensioner straight off the bat.
Yes, if we end up removing al lot of parts to get to the chain and tensioner I will probably ask them to replace the parts in the process. I still want them to try and diagnose it before we do this. I don't want to just replace parts if they don't need replacing. So it depends a lot on what they need to do to diagnose the problem, if there's one to begin with...
kegobeer
05-19-2014, 07:29 PM
Yes, if we end up removing al lot of parts to get to the chain and tensioner I will probably ask them to replace the parts in the process. I still want them to try and diagnose it before we do this. I don't want to just replace parts if they don't need replacing. So it depends a lot on what they need to do to diagnose the problem, if there's one to begin with...
My mechanic found my oil leak from the cam tensioner area - it was a no brainer for me to just have him swap the tensioner and chain out. I have 116K on my engine, and I don't want to go back in there in the future, so change it he will. I'm getting the old parts back so I can see what kind of wear is on those parts.
My mechanic found my oil leak from the cam tensioner area - it was a no brainer for me to just have him swap the tensioner and chain out. I have 116K on my engine, and I don't want to go back in there in the future, so change it he will. I'm getting the old parts back so I can see what kind of wear is on those parts.
It makes sense, at almost twice the mileage vs mine. As you said, no point in waiting to have to go back in there down the road. I may do the same thing, I'll see.
BTW, thank you all for your input and advice on this matter. [up]
lootcorp
05-20-2014, 06:22 PM
Interesting for me to find this thread now, as I just replaced the cam follower on my 2008 A4 (78k miles, quattro, tiptronic). I replaced the follower on Saturday and have been keeping an eye on the HPFP for leaks since doing the repair.
Tonight, I drove for about 10 minutes to run an errand and stopped at a gas station on the way home. While I was there I popped the hood with the car running to check again for leaks. I was a bit dismayed to hear that same sort of knocking sound, especially since it sounded like it was coming from the area of the HPFP. I couldn't pinpoint the noise but my immediate fear was that I had screwed something up when replacing the follower.
I just bought the car so I am not familiar with the engine noise...never owned an Audi or an FSI engine either, so not sure what "normal" is. I'll take a video tomorrow to compare. It's that rhythmic "knocking" sound that had me freaked out and thinking something was wrong, but maybe it's normal. If it's just a loud engine I could care less - I'm of the same mindset as Acme - I just don't want to ignore a serious potential issue. Very curious to see what your shop says, Acme...
pat_do
05-20-2014, 06:31 PM
Interesting for me to find this thread now, as I just replaced the cam follower on my 2008 A4 (78k miles, quattro, tiptronic). I replaced the follower on Saturday and have been keeping an eye on the HPFP for leaks since doing the repair.
Tonight, I drove for about 10 minutes to run an errand and stopped at a gas station on the way home. While I was there I popped the hood with the car running to check again for leaks. I was a bit dismayed to hear that same sort of knocking sound, especially since it sounded like it was coming from the area of the HPFP. I couldn't pinpoint the noise but my immediate fear was that I had screwed something up when replacing the follower.
I just bought the car so I am not familiar with the engine noise...never owned an Audi or an FSI engine either, so not sure what "normal" is. I'll take a video tomorrow to compare. It's that rhythmic "knocking" sound that had me freaked out and thinking something was wrong, but maybe it's normal. If it's just a loud engine I could care less - I'm of the same mindset as Acme - I just don't want to ignore a serious potential issue. Very curious to see what your shop says, Acme...
nothing to worry about lootcorp. They sound rough. My car was purchased CPO from Audi Lauzon in Laval, Quebec, and from day one, the engine sounded rough I got used to it. Once on the highway, you get used to it.
The newer TSI are much smoother
kegobeer
05-20-2014, 06:45 PM
I should be getting my car back tomorrow afternoon. I'll let everyone know what (if any) difference the new tensioner and chain make.
perrytcolts
05-20-2014, 07:02 PM
I should be getting my car back tomorrow afternoon. I'll let everyone know what (if any) difference the new tensioner and chain make.
We await your return with much anticipation!
I just bought the car so I am not familiar with the engine noise...never owned an Audi or an FSI engine either, so not sure what "normal" is. I'll take a video tomorrow to compare. It's that rhythmic "knocking" sound that had me freaked out and thinking something was wrong, but maybe it's normal. If it's just a loud engine I could care less - I'm of the same mindset as Acme - I just don't want to ignore a serious potential issue. Very curious to see what your shop says, Acme...
I will report back tomorrow or Thursday... Also curious about what kegobeer will report after getting his car back.
Back from the shop. We poked around the engine for 45 minutes, listened to it with a proper stethoscope, talked about how noisy they are, did a proper road test... Conclusion: for them, there's no evidence there's something wrong with it, at all. Of course if I ask them to open it up, they will - I'm paying, they'll do whatever I ask them to do, even if they are telling me it isn't necessary. But at this point I see no reason to spend 1000$ on some feeling I have that it is noisier than it was. They told me to watch out for the sound the engine is making and to go back if it changes over time (i.e. if it gets noticeably noisier). But they said that if there's really something wrong with the chain and and/or tensioner, it would be obvious.
So, back to square one... It's a noisy engine... Let's see if it gets worse, or not. From the time being, I'll try to simply enjoy it and stop worrying. [headbang]
Jake@JHM
05-21-2014, 11:38 AM
Hehe [:D]
Hehe [:D]
[:p]
I feel stupid, but I can finally enjoy the car (at least for the moment)... maybe even think about my next mod. [:D]
Jake@JHM
05-21-2014, 11:50 AM
Haha its all good. Being concerned for you vehicle will mean that you will likely find issues before its too late.
[:p]
I feel stupid, but I can finally enjoy the car (at least for the moment)... maybe even think about my next mod. [:D]
Good thing you aren't stage 3.
When you go stage 3:
You develop super human hearing, you can suddenly hear any new metallic noises, boost leaks, exhaust leaks.
Example- Driving with a few passengers.
You: WHOA did you guys hear that?
Passenger 1: Hear what?
You: that buzz noise, my exhaust must be slightly rubbing on the underbody crossmember.
Passenger 2: Nope, didn't hear that one, probably because your exhaust is 400% louder than a rocket taking off.
You also develop super human feeling.
Example - You driving with GF.
You: Whoa did you feel that stutter?
GF: No, maybe its just your imagination?
You: Bitch I know what I felt! I knew I shoulda installed that passenger eject button, now I gotta deal with your crying bullshit.
GF: OMG I can't believe you are soo mean to me.
You: BYAHHHHH! (Reach over her, open her door, unclip her seatbelt and sideways kick her out of your moving car.)
GF: AHHHHHHHHHHH
Chuck Norris: Flawless Fatality!
[:D][:D][:D] [up]
Yeah, I'm not stage 3, symptoms are the same, just a tad milder... [:p]
I should be getting my car back tomorrow afternoon. I'll let everyone know what (if any) difference the new tensioner and chain make.
So, how is it? Still the same? Or better?
kegobeer
05-22-2014, 08:15 PM
I haven't got my car back yet. There's some cock and bull story about needing a more experienced tech, yadda yadda. It was supposed to be done today, but I didn't get a call yet. It's starting to piss me off.
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perrytcolts
05-22-2014, 09:13 PM
I haven't got my car back yet. There's some cock and bull story about needing a more experienced tech, yadda yadda. It was supposed to be done today, but I didn't get a call yet. It's starting to piss me off.
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More experienced tech? What, is the shop just run by apprentices and then only when they need something like a cam chain tensioner replaced, they bring in the actual mechanic? What a rort.
4rings5stars
05-24-2014, 12:32 PM
More experienced tech? What, is the shop just run by apprentices and then only when they need something like a cam chain tensioner replaced, they bring in the actual mechanic? What a rort.
You'd be surprised
4rings5stars
05-24-2014, 12:35 PM
That toc toc noise would seem to me to be more variator/n205 related.
The tensioner/chain issues are usually more apparent after the car is warmed up. Of course if it's really bad it'll squawk all of the time. Right up till it implodes
Nice job keeping this thread informative and entertaining mec!
That toc toc noise would seem to me to be more variator/n205 related.
I think the same based on the numerous things I read, but again using a proper stethoscope we can't hear anything out of the ordinary coming from under the cam chain cover.
4rings5stars
05-24-2014, 09:13 PM
I think the same based on the numerous things I read, but again using a proper stethoscope we can't hear anything out of the ordinary coming from under the cam chain cover.
When I scoped mine(I currently have this exact issue), You could clearly hear the chain scraping. There is a knocking, but it's different than that 'toc toc' noise. It's also in phase with the chain chatter
haiger1110
05-25-2014, 12:40 AM
My car sounds the same as well.. i just stop caring... i did everything i could (suggested on forum) when i spend hours search on google and forum, still same sound...
as long as the car drives smooth i am happy
I edited the video and kept only the necessary parts as I understand people don't have all day to look at my dirty engine bay... [;)] Again, all inputs are very much appreciated! [:D]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-E7XKUAIgs&feature=youtu.be
My car sounds the same as well.. i just stop caring... i did everything i could (suggested on forum) when i spend hours search on google and forum, still same sound...
as long as the car drives smooth i am happy
Yeah, I'm there with you in the "I stop caring" club, until it starts sounding worse if it ever does. Until then I just drive and enjoy it. :)
There's still something I have to sort out: an exhaust leak that looks more and more like a problem with the gasket between the turbo and HFC, but it's not related... Unfortunately I can't reach all the bolts from the engine bay, so I think I can't tackle this myself. [:|]
4rings5stars
05-25-2014, 07:03 AM
I'll stop caring about whether I need to pony up for a 2.7 after I've done the tensioner. timing belt crap and checked the cam adjuster and n205
kegobeer
05-29-2014, 07:54 PM
I finally got my car back tonight. I haven't had time to video the engine at different operating temps yet, I'll do that this weekend though. I was surprised at the amount of wear on the old tensioner though. I'll post vids and pics of the old tensioner soon.
I will say this: my engine is definitely quieter than it was prior to replacing the tensioner. My mechanic said he noticed the same thing, much quieter than before.
I finally got my car back tonight. I haven't had time to video the engine at different operating temps yet, I'll do that this weekend though. I was surprised at the amount of wear on the old tensioner though. I'll post vids and pics of the old tensioner soon.
I will say this: my engine is definitely quieter than it was prior to replacing the tensioner. My mechanic said he noticed the same thing, much quieter than before.
Good news... And interesting... How many miles do you have on your car?
kegobeer
05-29-2014, 08:18 PM
116k
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk
Ok. I'm curious to see the state of your tensioner...
perrytcolts
05-29-2014, 08:33 PM
Well that's great to hear!
shiro1745
05-29-2014, 10:22 PM
OP good to hear you got that sorted out.
Ok. I'm curious to see the state of your tensioner...
My friend replaced the tensioner and chain on a 2.0 N/A jetta and that plastic rail on the tensioner was worn halfway through, that engine looked very dirty inside, it was probably due to oil starvation in that area.
billyhoyle
05-30-2014, 09:52 AM
Yeah, I'm there with you in the "I stop caring" club, until it starts sounding worse if it ever does. Until then I just drive and enjoy it. :)
There's still something I have to sort out: an exhaust leak that looks more and more like a problem with the gasket between the turbo and HFC, but it's not related... Unfortunately I can't reach all the bolts from the engine bay, so I think I can't tackle this myself. [:|]
You can get access to all the bolts with your car on ramps or axle stands. You'll need a wobble attachment I believe (or whatever those things are called...the attachment that lets you ratchet at an angle)
You can get access to all the bolts with your car on ramps or axle stands. You'll need a wobble attachment I believe (or whatever those things are called...the attachment that lets you ratchet at an angle)
I would need two more axle stands + I think I would have to drop the exhaust to give me the space to swap the gasket... I bit difficult to do all alone. I'll just ask my mec to do it while doing my next oil change next week. The car will already be on a lift...
kegobeer
06-01-2014, 03:30 PM
Here are the pictures of my old tensioner that was pulled at 116000 miles:
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x381/kegobeer/DSC_9031.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/kegobeer/media/DSC_9031.jpg.html)
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x381/kegobeer/DSC_9032.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/kegobeer/media/DSC_9032.jpg.html)
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x381/kegobeer/DSC_9033.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/kegobeer/media/DSC_9033.jpg.html)
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x381/kegobeer/DSC_9034.jpg (http://s1179.photobucket.com/user/kegobeer/media/DSC_9034.jpg.html)
You can see quite a bit of wear on the guides. The oil lubrication port was pretty well gunked up, too - you can just barely make it out. The piston spring is very worn, which prevented the tensioner from putting the correct pressure against the chain, which then caused the chain rattle. My mechanic said there was a very noticeable difference when compressing the new one compared to the old one.
kegobeer
06-01-2014, 03:49 PM
Here's a video of my engine, first start of the day, after the cam tensioner had been swapped.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iY2rkC6NoM
After the engine warmed up and dropped to idle speed, I increased it to 2000 rpm, then 3000 rpm, and finally back to idle.
perrytcolts
06-01-2014, 06:37 PM
Yeah that sounds much smoother. Did you feel like it restored some lost power or not really?
kegobeer
06-01-2014, 06:40 PM
Yeah that sounds much smoother. Did you feel like it restored some lost power or not really?
I didn't notice any power gains.
Still noisy but better. Best thing though: you now know nothing can go wrong in there!!
How much did you pay for the job?
kegobeer
06-02-2014, 06:31 AM
At least the noisy engine is the normal noisy B7 engine now, no more chain rattle. I'll take that any day.
Parts and labor for the tensioner, gasket, and fixing a stripped bolt on my valve cover was $800.
aluthman
06-02-2014, 07:03 AM
Did you also replace the chain while it was all apart? I did on mine just to be safe. I also replaced the oil pump chain, but didn't think about replacing the tensioner there for some dumb reason.
FraggyA4
06-02-2014, 07:15 AM
At least the noisy engine is the normal noisy B7 engine now, no more chain rattle. I'll take that any day.
Parts and labor for the tensioner, gasket, and fixing a stripped bolt on my valve cover was $800.
I would of done this for $200, Parts being only about $80 and only about 1.5 hours of labor. I'm now on my third time doing it so I'm getting really good at it lol.
kegobeer
06-02-2014, 07:31 AM
I would of done this for $200, Parts being only about $80 and only about 1.5 hours of labor. I'm now on my third time doing it so I'm getting really good at it lol.
Gas, time off work, and hotels for the trip from Florida to Michigan would be a bit more than $200 I think. hahaha
FraggyA4
06-02-2014, 07:39 AM
Gas, time off work, and hotels for the trip from Florida to Michigan would be a bit more than $200 I think. hahaha
No you could do it just make it a vacation, Michigan is a great destination in the summer. [:D]
I would of done this for $200, Parts being only about $80 and only about 1.5 hours of labor. I'm now on my third time doing it so I'm getting really good at it lol.
How can you do this in only 1.5 hours, most say it's 6-7 hours... [confused]
Jake@JHM
06-02-2014, 10:33 AM
No you could do it just make it a vacation, Michigan is a great destination in the summer. [:D]
You should make a DIY for people. I am sure they would enjoy it!
FraggyA4
06-02-2014, 10:46 AM
You should make a DIY for people. I am sure they would enjoy it!
Boom! one exist I'm just going to add a few detail things to make it even more understandable.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/570787-DIY-Cam-Chain-Tensioner-and-Cam-Replacement
FraggyA4
06-02-2014, 10:48 AM
How can you do this in only 1.5 hours, most say it's 6-7 hours... [confused]
Once you've done it a few times you know exactly where every bolt is and know what tool to use. I also don't pull the cam girdle I just undo the cam shaft adjuster. I can also replace a head gasket in about 3 hours.
Jake@JHM
06-02-2014, 11:10 AM
Once you've done it a few times you know exactly where every bolt is and know what tool to use. I also don't pull the cam girdle I just undo the cam shaft adjuster. I can also replace a head gasket in about 3 hours.
See, that's why you need to make a DIY. You have a more efficient version of doing this tensioner [up]
See, that's why you need to make a DIY. You have a more efficient version of doing this tensioner [up]
Yes, I wanna share that with my mec so he can do this for 1/5 the price he quoted me... [cool]
FraggyA4
06-02-2014, 12:05 PM
See, that's why you need to make a DIY. You have a more efficient version of doing this tensioner [up]
It's the same as this write up I just know where everything is that's why I can do it faster then quoted. I'm going to clarify that you need to rotate the intake cam when you mount the chain.
Yes, I wanna share that with my mec so he can do this for 1/5 the price he quoted me... [cool]
Yeah but then how would they make money.
Yeah but then how would they make money.
Not my problem! [:D]
I've never been able to get the variator off....that thing is welded on, I've tried twice and both times stripped the bolt, I tried a 1/2 wrench, no luck, breaker bar, no luck, breaker bar with a lead pipe, and thats when tehy strip. Its tightened to a million and a half newton meters.
perrytcolts
06-02-2014, 03:31 PM
It's the same as this write up I just know where everything is that's why I can do it faster then quoted. I'm going to clarify that you need to rotate the intake cam when you mount the chain.
I would pay you if you did a write up for replacing the tensioner! The DIY thread you linked says that russkieA4 removed his front end and pulled the timing belt. Is that necessary just to replace the tensioner? And are the specialty tools necessary or optional?
kegobeer
06-02-2014, 04:17 PM
If you don't remove the head it's going to take longer than an hour and a half. Just ask my mechanic.
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