CEL for Intake Manifold Flappers

[WCM3]

Hi guys,

I have a 2009 S5 with around 75k on it. It's recently thrown a CEL, which might go away for a day or two, and then come back. It's been back for a solid couple of weeks, so I had my buddy run the codes and they are for Intake Manfold flappers. Has anyone had this issue before and a possible remedy?

I've seen S4 threads noting intake manifold flapper issues and they all appear to be due to build up because of the DI engines. Is there any DIY on this for the S5 in particular?

Thanks in advance for any help,
Mike

[Santana's S5]

I had the same problem. My manifold flap stayed closed on one side which was causing the engine not to get enough air. You should be able to see the flaps open underneath the manifold when you unlock the car. Each time you unlock the car, you hear a sound, those are the flaps opening. A piece fell off the arm which was causing the flap to stay closed. I forget where I saw it but I think the dealer sells these parts to reconnect the arm depending if that's actually the problem or maybe a screw can get it done. Since the manifold has to come off, I had a carbon cleaning done. Hope this helps.

[WCM3]

I had the same problem. My manifold flap stayed closed on one side which was causing the engine not to get enough air. You should be able to see the flaps open underneath the manifold when you unlock the car. Each time you unlock the car, you hear a sound, those are the flaps opening. A piece fell off the arm which was causing the flap to stay closed. I forget where I saw it but I think the dealer sells these parts to reconnect the arm depending if that's actually the problem or maybe a screw can get it done. Since the manifold has to come off, I had a carbon cleaning done. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the response! So did the carbon cleaning actually fix your problem? Were the flaps stuck because of the build-up or was something broken/not functioning?

[Santana's S5]

Carbon cleaning had nothing to do with flaps. Since the manifold had to come to repair flap I decided to do carbon cleaning. I'll try to take some photos to better explain later.

[WCM3]

Carbon cleaning had nothing to do with flaps. Since the manifold had to come to repair flap I decided to do carbon cleaning. I'll try to take some photos to better explain later.

Gotcha. Makes sense. I'll probably pursue that as well.

I'll take the intake manifold off this weekend and inspect. What happens with the actual flaps, do they break or just get gunked up? I'm trying to prepare myself and make sure my local audi has parts in stock that I might need. I've heard it could possibly be arms or a solenoid.

[Santana's S5]

Gotcha. Makes sense. I'll probably pursue that as well.

I'll take the intake manifold off this weekend and inspect. What happens with the actual flaps, do they break or just get gunked up? I'm trying to prepare myself and make sure my local audi has parts in stock that I might need. I've heard it could possibly be arms or a solenoid.

My problem was the actual arm. I forget what my mechanic did to fix it but I've also read somewhere that Audi sells a small kit for this but not 100% positive.

[WCM3]

My problem was the actual arm. I forget what my mechanic did to fix it but I've also read somewhere that Audi sells a small kit for this but not 100% positive.

Thanks! I'm seeing if I can diagnose anything before taking the intake manifold off. I just looked at the arms/etc and everything looks to be in one piece.

Is it correct in assuming if I have someone rev the engine over 5k, those actuators should both move? I read that in a S4 discussion but assuming it would be same for S5.

[Santana's S5]

Thanks! I'm seeing if I can diagnose anything before taking the intake manifold off. I just looked at the arms/etc and everything looks to be in one piece.

Is it correct in assuming if I have someone rev the engine over 5k, those actuators should both move? I read that in a S4 discussion but assuming it would be same for S5.

I think they open up before you start the engine. I was trying to get a quick video of them opening before I start the engine but didn't have a chance.

[WCM3]

I think they open up before you start the engine. I was trying to get a quick video of them opening before I start the engine but didn't have a chance.

Gotcha. I'll keep an eye on them at startup and revving over 5k. Thanks for all the help!

[Santana's S5]

Gotcha. I'll keep an eye on them at startup and revving over 5k. Thanks for all the help!

No problem.

[WCM3]

Let's add to this :)

So a couple days ago I put some of the G17 Multipurpose Additive (G-001-770-A2) in with a full tank of gas. The CEL went out a day or two later.

I also inspected the intake manifold with just the plastic engine cover off, and it doesn't appear that anything is broken/cracked. I was planning to remove the manifold tomorrow morning, but not sure what to do now that the CEL is out. Thoughts? Is it most likely carbon deposits?

[Santana's S5]

Let's add to this :)

So a couple days ago I put some of the G17 Multipurpose Additive (G-001-770-A2) in with a full tank of gas. The CEL went out a day or two later.

I also inspected the intake manifold with just the plastic engine cover off, and it doesn't appear that anything is broken/cracked. I was planning to remove the manifold tomorrow morning, but not sure what to do now that the CEL is out. Thoughts? Is it most likely carbon deposits?

If the CEL is out then I would just keep an eye on it. If you have a VAG, scan it while it's outs just to see if the code cleared itself or for some strange reason it's still there without the CEL on. That's just my opinion as I get paranoid with CEL's.

[WCM3]

If the CEL is out then I would just keep an eye on it. If you have a VAG, scan it while it's outs just to see if the code cleared itself or for some strange reason it's still there without the CEL on. That's just my opinion as I get paranoid with CEL's.

I don't have a VAG but I did take it apart this weekend. The valves/flapper intake runners were all horrible. I cleaned out five sets of valves, but the other three were partially open. Any trick to close those three so I can finish cleaning? Is it as easy as turning the crank bolt, or is there something special with these motors?

Thanks,
Mike

[WCM3]

So I spent the past two weekends removing the IM and cleaning out the valves. It was a mess in there and I feel a lot better with how it is now.

I made sure both solenoids for the flappers moved prior to removing everything. Put it all back together and voila, no more CEL!! Drove around for a couple days and was wacked with another CEL. Ran the code and it was the same P2006/P2007 I believe, which is flappers stuck closed. Cleared that code and now have been driving around for another few days with no more CELs. Has this happened to anyone? I'm trying to decide if I should take it into Audi or what to really do? I get the double codes (Bank 1 and Bank 2) but I can't believe both diaphragms/solenoids are bad. I'm not even sure how Audi would diagnose now.

[Not A Good Idea]

yes happened to me... you might want to sit down...

i had a 2008 model were, the intake manifold is different then the later 09-10 models. those 2 little intake flap motors are replaceable on the 08. i believe the cost of replacing the one that was fooked came to $999.98 just for labor. unfortunately, the 09 models you must replace the entire manifold. so i believe the cost for the manifold is about $2k not including labor.

[bknewtype]

someone grab the vaseline

[kwgreer]

be sure to check the vaccuum lines too, I had a loose one and it was causing the two manifold flaps to be stuck

[John P.]

I did--see here:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/528055-Anyone-have-your-Intake-Manifold-Replaced-on-Your-S5

No CELs since.

[WCM3]

yes happened to me... you might want to sit down...

i had a 2008 model were, the intake manifold is different then the later 09-10 models. those 2 little intake flap motors are replaceable on the 08. i believe the cost of replacing the one that was fooked came to $999.98 just for labor. unfortunately, the 09 models you must replace the entire manifold. so i believe the cost for the manifold is about $2k not including labor.

Yeah, I've noticed this when taking everything apart. The directions I had, and pictures I've searched, showed a different setup in my 2009 versus 2008. Pictures of my setup are below (some before and afters). Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Flaps functioned properly. Both white solenoids moved when the engine started up. It seems like the problem comes and goes. One time it could get stuck, throwing the CEL. But if I erase the CEL, I could drive it another few days without another CEL.

http://i.imgur.com/MPJGZ51.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/meTdoLx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/p80sKnv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BQZQp2S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/i7Wkvua.jpg


someone grab the vaseline

For real. That's what I'm worried about. I cleaned out all the intake valves because I heard an estimate of $1,500 to clean those up. If it's replace the manifold for $2k, I don't know what I would do.


be sure to check the vaccuum lines too, I had a loose one and it was causing the two manifold flaps to be stuck

Thanks. I saw a couple threads with that. I checked all the vacuum lines when the IM was off and I didn't notice anything.


I did--see here:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/528055-Anyone-have-your-Intake-Manifold-Replaced-on-Your-S5

No CELs since.

How did you remedy this? Replaced your entire intake manifold? Please god no..

[WCM3]

K, dropped the car off at Audi last night because I'm just tired of it. They called me and tried to blame the CEL on me incorrectly putting the intake manifold back on. However, i actually spoke to an audi tech prior to installing the manifold and knew the trick already. I told the service advisor and he seemed caught off guard because that was his only "out". lol. He said, ok we can't further diagnose without removing the IM, and that's like $700. I said ok just do it. They are still diagnosing and I will report back with any outcome.

Just so people know, when you torque down the intake manifold, you need to set vacuum to both intake flapper diaphragms. I didn't really want to play with that so I just had my mom hold open both pivot arms before torquing down the IM. Torque on the IM is really low too, like 9 Nm.

[UFfitz56]

Just so people know, when you torque down the intake manifold, you need to set vacuum to both intake flapper diaphragms. I didn't really want to play with that so I just had my mom hold open both pivot arms before torquing down the IM. Torque on the IM is really low too, like 9 Nm.

Can you elaborate on this a little? I am getting ready to tackle the carbon cleaning myself as well but haven't seen anything about setting the flapper diaphragms in any of the DIY's. Thanks for the help and hope everything turns out ok for you!

[John P.]

Yeah, I've noticed this when taking everything apart. The directions I had, and pictures I've searched, showed a different setup in my 2009 versus 2008. Pictures of my setup are below (some before and afters). Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Flaps functioned properly. Both white solenoids moved when the engine started up. It seems like the problem comes and goes. One time it could get stuck, throwing the CEL. But if I erase the CEL, I could drive it another few days without another CEL.

http://i.imgur.com/MPJGZ51.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/meTdoLx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/p80sKnv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BQZQp2S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/i7Wkvua.jpg



For real. That's what I'm worried about. I cleaned out all the intake valves because I heard an estimate of $1,500 to clean those up. If it's replace the manifold for $2k, I don't know what I would do.



Thanks. I saw a couple threads with that. I checked all the vacuum lines when the IM was off and I didn't notice anything.



How did you remedy this? Replaced your entire intake manifold? Please god no..

Yes--glad it was under warranty 'cuz it ain't cheap.

[frigga]

Have you tried replacing the solenoid as a possible solution? I'm getting the problem too, but I think it might just be a bad solenoid.