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Mok4200
04-15-2014, 11:54 AM
Just got my car and noticed the is oil EVERYWHERE, looking more into the bay, i see my PCV is taped up (poorly i might ad) and there is disconnected hoses everywhere, Reading more online it looks like someone deleted (or tried) the whole PCV system, what is the purpose of this?? where can i obtain the tubes to put it back to stock?

xthealienatorx
04-15-2014, 11:56 AM
2.8 or 1.8t?


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Mok4200
04-15-2014, 12:03 PM
2.8 or 1.8t?


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1.8t sorry

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 12:41 PM
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/442614-*DIY*-B5-1-8T-Vacuum-Check-Valve-SAI-PCV-Delete-amp-Simplification

ray4624
04-15-2014, 01:52 PM
the purpose would be that replacing the PCV system is expensive and unnecessary. For like 15 bucks you can buy the adapter and just dump it to the ground.

pbcrazy
04-15-2014, 01:52 PM
A lot of people delete it to get rid of oil throughout their intake. I've also heard that oil being mixed with the air lowers the octane level of the gas. I personally decided to keep my pcv system and refreshed it with the 034 silicone tube. I kept it for a couple reason:
1. Cops in my area would pull me over so fast if they say oil dripping under the car, even a tiny amount. Plus if your car inspector isn't dumb he will fail you for it. Both of these are solved with a catch can however
2. This is the main reason I kept it, on older cars piston rings are worn down to some extent. The extra bit of oil vapor coming threw the intake helps seal them up a bit

ray4624
04-15-2014, 02:03 PM
Mass doesnt have to pass emissions...no issues here.
IDK how much oil goes through your system but the amount of oil that drips from my dump is so small there is absolutely no way that a cop would ever see it. I dont even have a stain in my driveway from it.

pbcrazy
04-15-2014, 02:07 PM
Mass doesnt have to pass emissions...no issues here.
IDK how much oil goes through your system but the amount of oil that drips from my dump is so small there is absolutely no way that a cop would ever see it. I dont even have a stain in my driveway from it.

True, it was mainly an emissions thing, I don't have emissions testing in Virginia but they do a look over of everything. I did manage to pass without a cat though, I convinced the dude that German cars were weird and the cat didn't protrude in the piping lol.

ray4624
04-15-2014, 02:11 PM
lol nice that always works.
Mass doesnt even have to pass readiness...pretty awesome.
That is only for cars 15+ years old though

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 04:57 PM
I just need to do a write up and have the mods do a sticky.

Take 100% of the oem pvc system and toss it:

- Plug up hole in induction boot
- Buy 034 Motorsport bung, 1' of hose and a vented catch can, good location for catch can is right above drivers side frame rail behind driver side headlight, or on
false raintray to the left of the coolant reservior.

If you have a vented vc buy another 1'-2' of line and run to catch can too.

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 05:18 PM
the purpose would be that replacing the PCV system is expensive and unnecessary. For like 15 bucks you can buy the adapter and just dump it to the ground.

seems we agree on just dumping to ground every 2 or 3 days a new pcv thread pops up.
[:D]

ray4624
04-15-2014, 05:23 PM
Yea seriously we should just take turns on answering this.

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 05:30 PM
Yea seriously we should just take turns on answering this.

no. we have to team up on ppl. I want everones PCV deleted and dumped to ground. I dont want to hear about a catch can. EVER AGAIN...lmao

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 05:35 PM
How about we start responding with: Use a Y-fitting to split off, to dump it on the ground directly infront of the tires.

ray4624
04-15-2014, 05:38 PM
You can vent the vc to the pass tire and crankcase to the drivers side. I'm aeb so I'd need the y. Still wouldn't even be enough oil to do anything lol


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A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 05:42 PM
Trans cooler for the rear?

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 05:47 PM
mine also doesnt leave much oil, so rerouting it in front of my tires would probably be just a slippery if I ran over a slug trail lol

if you want to save money on oil, just reroute the PCV directly into oil fill cap

Mad Cow
04-15-2014, 05:47 PM
I just need to do a write up and have the mods do a sticky.

Take 100% of the oem pvc system and toss it:

- Plug up hole in induction boot
- Buy 034 Motorsport bung, 1' of hose and a vented catch can, good location for catch can is right above drivers side frame rail behind driver side headlight, or on
false raintray to the left of the coolant reservior.

If you have a vented vc buy another 1'-2' of line and run to catch can too.

Why not just replace everything with OEM parts and be done with it? What is it about auto forum members that makes them think they know better than the teams of engineers that designed the car? Not singling you out or anything, but the notion of "just rip that shit out, it's unnecessary" is so rampant it's ridiculous. Whenever someone suggests doing something there's almost never anybody asking about the drawbacks so everyone just concentrates on the perceived or even theoretical benefits without even considering side effects. Then this information becomes so embedded in the community that nobody even bothers questioning it when it's brought up again. When someone with actual knowledge on the subject comes by and starts asking questions, nobody can answer them because they themselves don't even know why they did what they did half the time because it's now "common knowledge".

If oil vapour in your intake is such a huge problem then a catch can is just a bandaid that masks the symptom without addressing the actual problem. There's really not much to the PCV system in these cars, maybe I'm crazy but I'd rather just look up a couple of part numbers, drive over to my local dealership, and have the problem fixed by the end of the day. Sure the stock system degrades after a while, but so will everything else. I don't plan on keeping my 15 year old car for another 15 years, so if it took that long for the stock system to fail then the stuff I replaced will outlast the rest of the car anyway.

/rant

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 05:56 PM
Why not just replace everything with OEM parts and be done with it?

^Says the guy with a list of mods in his signature[headbang]

ray4624
04-15-2014, 05:58 PM
It's all emissions. They put them there because the government told them that they had to. If you wanna pay for the oem parts for me to fix a useless system on my weekend car then I'll fix it.


Yes, you can just rip shit out instead of replacing it when it is emissions related. It just has to be done correctly. If I had to pass smog or something then I would have bought the 034 system and replaced all my parts.

The only drawback I've seen to doing this was that one person claimed they needed the vacuum from their tip to relieve pressure. Clearly they had something else messed up other wise all these huge hp builds wouldn't be using catch cans.

The pros and cons have been laid out. All point to the 15 dollar fix.

In many cases I would agree that thins should pre properly replaced with oem parts...here is where I differ

/counter rant ;)

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 06:02 PM
Because cars are made for everybody nobodies I don't care about cars I need to simply get to work and catch cans would require the otherwise lazy public to clean out said catch can and on a wide scale it'll never be legalized with oil pooling in a tank not to mention are illegal in states like CA unless a closed system. A pvc system makes the turbo eat it's own vapor, is filthy, and makes a mess outta the induction system. There are "Zero" drawbacks from a catch can other then being placed too close to the passenger side rain tray due to vapor smells coming into the cabin.


Teams of enginneers!!!!!!! What! You don't have coilovers on your car? How about an exhaust system? Rocking a factory audio system?

Rip that pea shooter oem pvc system out and allow your engine to breath.

A catch can is not a problem, or a band aid.

kraylon
04-15-2014, 06:28 PM
I just need to do a write up and have the mods do a sticky.

Take 100% of the oem pvc system and toss it:

- Plug up hole in induction boot
- Buy 034 Motorsport bung, 1' of hose and a vented catch can, good location for catch can is right above drivers side frame rail behind driver side headlight, or on
false raintray to the left of the coolant reservior.

If you have a vented vc buy another 1'-2' of line and run to catch can too.


I would like to see this write up.

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 06:30 PM
I would like to see this write up.

you are looking at it....lol.


and new sig for ray and a1/a2 german[up]

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 06:50 PM
I like my pvc system like I like my car, dumped on the ground.

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 06:59 PM
I like my pvc system like I like my car, dumped on the ground.

if you don't make that your sig, I will[>_<]

edit: on second thought, no I wont. I dont have a "pvc" system lol

BaseDrifter
04-15-2014, 07:02 PM
mine also doesnt leave much oil, so rerouting it in front of my tires would probably be just a slippery if I ran over a slug trail lol

if you want to save money on oil, just reroute the PCV directly into oil fill cap

If you have yours dumping to the ground, how do you know that it doesn't leave much oil? Do you have a chase car following you around measuring the oil you dump?

Being in CA, I have my PCV system functioning with the 034 replacement. I have heard that the oil that is evacuated is nasty stuff, not the kind of stuff you want to recirculate into the oil supply.

Besides the fact that I need the PCV system for emissions in CA, there are two other reasons I would never run a set up that dumps to the ground.

1. You know what sucks to drive on? Oil. You know who it really sucks for? Motorcyclists. Which is the exact reason why they're taught to never ride in the center of the lane. The less oil being dumped on the ground, the safer it is for them. (They do have to change lanes and merge eventually.)

2. The less oil runoff in our water supply the better. That oil you dump to the ground, it gets washed away and seeps into the ground/water.

Mad Cow
04-15-2014, 07:03 PM
I'm not saying to only ever use OEM parts, that would be hypocritical of me. But everything I've done I've researched until my mind went numb, then I went to sleep and repeated it the next day until I was 100% sure that I knew exactly what I was doing and its side effects; "because everyone else does it" isn't enough for me and it shouldn't be for anyone else. Catch cans have their place, but please do your research before pulling the trigger to see if what you're about to do is actually the right thing to do in your situation. Sure some people have no problem with emptying out a catch can every few days, but most people just want to be able to get into their car and drive without worrying about minute crap like this. On the same token, I'd rather not have an open hole in my crankcase dripping oil wherever I go. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone else.

As for drawbacks to having an open PCV system, how about lower oil pressure at idle? Google it, it's a thing.

I'm not arguing against anything specifically, my whole point is that you need to research things before you do them because no two people have the exact same needs. Blindly recommending something isn't the way to go, people need to learn about what they're about to do so they themselves can decide if it's the right course of action.

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 07:20 PM
To be serious for a second, no one should be dumping their oil on the ground and there should never be an open element to the crank case or vc. Please capture all oil and depose of it properly. Depending on being a proper set up, we're not talking about a catch can filling up in weeks, talking 8 to 12+ months (One set up I had would take 6 months).



If you have yours dumping to the ground, how do you know that it doesn't leave much oil? Do you have a chase car following you around measuring the oil you dump?

Being in CA, I have my PCV system functioning with the 034 replacement. I have heard that the oil that is evacuated is nasty stuff, not the kind of stuff you want to recirculate into the oil supply.

Besides the fact that I need the PCV system for emissions in CA, there are two other reasons I would never run a set up that dumps to the ground.

1. You know what sucks to drive on? Oil. You know who it really sucks for? Motorcyclists. Which is the exact reason why they're taught to never ride in the center of the lane. The less oil being dumped on the ground, the safer it is for them. (They do have to change lanes and merge eventually.)

2. The less oil runoff in our water supply the better. That oil you dump to the ground, it gets washed away and seeps into the ground/water.

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 07:35 PM
Except you completley overlooked: OEM Ko3 inspired 1.8t low oem boost level motor.

Nor that fact that you increase the size of the breathing system, you arn't just throwing a perfect oem system away, you're throwing away a pee shooter.

Also when many do the catch can, many add a vented vc.The engineers understood a vented vc was needed......this is typically added as a mod to preface lift cars, just like the engineers over looked.

I do not think you crunched the #'s per flow volume per cubic volume per possitive psi per cf to show oem ko3 vs Gt2871 @ 20+ psi. Neither have I, but not claiming I researched till my head went numb. Our cars are made the way they are, for the general public, for 150/180hp. That's what the engineers did.




I'm not saying to only ever use OEM parts, that would be hypocritical of me. But everything I've done I've researched until my mind went numb, then I went to sleep and repeated it the next day until I was 100% sure that I knew exactly what I was doing and its side effects; "because everyone else does it" isn't enough for me and it shouldn't be for anyone else. Catch cans have their place, but please do your research before pulling the trigger to see if what you're about to do is actually the right thing to do in your situation. Sure some people have no problem with emptying out a catch can every few days, but most people just want to be able to get into their car and drive without worrying about minute crap like this. On the same token, I'd rather not have an open hole in my crankcase dripping oil wherever I go. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for everyone else.

As for drawbacks to having an open PCV system, how about lower oil pressure at idle? Google it, it's a thing.

I'm not arguing against anything specifically, my whole point is that you need to research things before you do them because no two people have the exact same needs. Blindly recommending something isn't the way to go, people need to learn about what they're about to do so they themselves can decide if it's the right course of action.

melomandn
04-15-2014, 07:59 PM
Many good points in here, dumping the pcv system straight to the ground is definitely not the best way to do it (even though thats how my car is currently setup [rolleyes]) the best way to do it is a catch can or a piece like the e-scavenger that sends it into the exhaust where it will get burned off.

I think there is a misunderstanding in how much oil we're talking about here. Like a1 a2 german said it will take about a year in most cases to fill up a catch can, its very minimal what comes out. I've parked in driveways and garages where the owner's were super anal asking if my car leaked anything at all and have never gotten a complaint. Were talking oil vapor, not an excessive noticeable dump. Also I dont promote dumping oil on the ground in anyway, but no one ever preaches to people who take out their cats adding more air pollution...

Other things to consider:
1. Some people claim dumping it to the ground and no longer have a closed system will allow water vapor in the system. This is true, but our oil temps rise over the boiling point of water so the vapors and other contaminants will be burned out.
2. Running the stock system leaves a mess of oil throughout the intake system which overtime leads up to large builld ups and can slowy clog intercoolers.
3. Running a dumped or vented system smells BAD especially on a hot day, I've had many passengers comment on the smell

The best way in my mind, and how I will be running my is with an e-scavenger type system that circulates it back into the exhaust. This system will burn off the vapors leaving you with no mess/problem/smell while still providing a vacuum on the system

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 08:00 PM
If you have yours dumping to the ground, how do you know that it doesn't leave much oil? Do you have a chase car following you around measuring the oil you dump?
no pace car, but my oil consumption hasnt changed, plus ic I rev the shit out of it wil cardboard under the dump, you see nothing

. I have heard that the oil that is evacuated is nasty stuff, not the kind of stuff you want to recirculate into the oil supply.
hence dumping pcv or running an OCC

Besides the fact that I need the PCV system for emissions in CA, there are two other reasons I would never run a set up that dumps to the ground.

1. You know what sucks to drive on? Oil. You know who it really sucks for? Motorcyclists. Which is the exact reason why they're taught to never ride in the center of the lane. The less oil being dumped on the ground, the safer it is for them. (They do have to change lanes and merge eventually.)


2. The less oil runoff in our water supply the better. That oil you dump to the ground, it gets washed away and seeps into the ground/water. the little oil that does mange to escape, is negligible
...

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 08:08 PM
E-scavenger = very interesting!

I think a very strong point needs to be made in pvc vs catch can. Not to be pro or anti on either. A pvc system recycles, spits out, sucks, uses much more oil or should say draws more oil as it's being ~pulled upon by the induction system. Your induction boot port is acting like a vacuum and uses more oil. A catch can traps vapor that is being pushef out under postive pressure (boost) which pools in a can.

GrapeBandit
04-15-2014, 08:12 PM
e-scav is the way dragsters do it. plumbed into exhaust. we would e-scav to any point past our o2 sensors

thats too fancy and cost money, so check my sig...lol

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 08:43 PM
So Melomanda, you're just gonna plumb into this post O2's?

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-1189

melomandn
04-15-2014, 08:50 PM
So Melomanda, you're just gonna plumb into this post O2's?

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-1189

Thats my plan, I remember seeing a thread on here awhile ago where a few other members mentioned running it and I think someone (biketsai?) threw up some pictures of his setup. If I didnt have this 10 page retirement planning paper due tomorrow I'd try to dig it up.

biketsai
04-15-2014, 08:54 PM
Thats my plan, I remember seeing a thread on here awhile ago where a few other members mentioned running it and I think someone (biketsai?) threw up some pictures of his setup. If I didnt have this 10 page retirement planning paper due tomorrow I'd try to dig it up.

I had it, but never installed it correctly at the 45 degree angle. My car still smelled a little so I rerouted my PVC setup with 034 parts back into the intake. I've still ripped everything out but the pancake valve.

A1 A2 German
04-15-2014, 09:00 PM
Going to use 2?

1 for vc, other for crank case?

Is there a cc/hp/flow chart determing anything?

The vc throws out a lot of air volume....really surprised me when I swaped to a facelift vc.

Take your time, look forward to it.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 08:27 AM
so let me get this clear. you guys are green peace when I say dump to ground, but you guys have no problem burning it out the exhaust.

so in other words you are saying, please dont dump your pollution on the ground, dump them in the air.[facepalm]

melomandn
04-16-2014, 08:51 AM
so let me get this clear. you guys are green peace when I say dump to ground, but you guys have no problem burning it out the exhaust.

so in other words you are saying, please dont dump your pollution on the ground, dump them in the air.[facepalm]

Same point I was making earlier, its impossible to have a performance oriented car and be a tree hugger.

ray4624
04-16-2014, 09:12 AM
Bro my Prius is wicked fast


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M-Hood
04-16-2014, 09:14 AM
mine also doesnt leave much oil, so rerouting it in front of my tires would probably be just a slippery if I ran over a slug trail lol

if you want to save money on oil, just reroute the PCV directly into oil fill cap

How exactly are you measuring the amount of oil that is coming out of your breather hose if you are just dumping it to the ground?

Most people that run a catch can post that they have to empty it out every once in a while because it does fill up.

skemems
04-16-2014, 09:17 AM
Same point I was making earlier, its impossible to have a performance oriented car and be a tree hugger.

Tell me about your HP gains without your PCV? or how about getting a HFC instead of a test pipe or deleting your cat? lol... just sayin..[:D]

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 09:21 AM
How exactly are you measuring the amount of oil that is coming out of your breather hose if you are just dumping it to the ground?

Most people that run a catch can post that they have to empty it out every once in a while because it does fill up.

I dont measure it, and im sure nobody else running a ground dump does either. my oil consumption is the same, and I dont leave any stains on the ground

BaseDrifter
04-16-2014, 11:57 AM
but no one ever preaches to people who take out their cats adding more air pollution...

Well, some of us would, but why bother? This is one of the reasons I run a HFC and not a test pipe. Also, performance differences are negligible and it doesn't smell like shit now.




no pace car, but my oil consumption hasnt changed, plus ic I rev the shit out of it wil cardboard under the dump, you see nothing

I'm no master of PCV systems, but if you have removed the source of vacuum to the PCV system then the vapor is only getting pushed out while under boost, which you won't see any of while sitting still.


hence dumping pcv or running an OCC

The reason I mentioned that at all was because you said "if you want to save money on oil, just reroute the PCV directly into oil fill cap."


the little oil that does mange to escape, is negligible

I noticed you didn't reply to my point about dumping oil and road safety for others on the road, is that negligible?


so let me get this clear. you guys are green peace when I say dump to ground, but you guys have no problem burning it out the exhaust.

so in other words you are saying, please dont dump your pollution on the ground, dump them in the air.[facepalm]

If I had to choose between you dumping your oil on the roads or having it burned off, yes, I would choose having it burned off. In fact, that is exactly what the stock system does, albeit within the combustion chamber instead of the exhaust system.

The fact of the matter is that owning and driving any vehicle introduces more pollutants and poses more externalities on society than not owning a car would. That is exacerbated when trying to increase the performance of the vehicle. There are certain aspects of pollution that are unavoidable and others that can be avoided, I try to avoid them whenever I can.


Same point I was making earlier, its impossible to have a performance oriented car and be a tree hugger.

Not impossible, but there is some "bargaining" taking place for sure. I care about the environment, I also like working on my car. Unfortunately performance electric vehicles powered by renewable energy sources are way beyond my price range/non existent, so I make due with what I can for now. As I said earlier, there are forms of pollution that are unavoidable, choosing to dump your PCV to the ground is definitely avoidable.


I dont measure it, and im sure nobody else running a ground dump does either. my oil consumption is the same, and I dont leave any stains on the ground

Keep rationalizing it. Also, replying within the quote as you did before makes it really difficult to quote you back, just FYI.

ray4624
04-16-2014, 12:10 PM
If you seriously think that the oil coming out of the pcv is enough to cause a danger to other drivers then I am at a loss for words.


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Mok4200
04-16-2014, 12:42 PM
can someone just point me to a thread for a PVC delete for my 1998 audi a4 b5 1.8t? gue half assed it and need to go over everything again.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 01:18 PM
I noticed you didn't reply to my point about dumping oil and road safety for others on the road, is that negligible?


If you seriously think that the oil coming out of the pcv is enough to cause a danger to other drivers then I am at a loss for words.


Keep rationalizing it.
you are the one rationalizing here.

You(specifically) can avoid the pollution you are so concerned about. You own an internal combustion engine, most likely more than one, in which you were not forced to buy. They sell electric cars, pedal bikes, roller blades, skate boards, comfortable walking shoes, etc., but let me guess, you justify your "unavoidable" pollution by saying(fill in the blank).

i would love to hear it.


can someone just point me to a thread for a PVC delete for my 1998 audi a4 b5 1.8t? gue half assed it and need to go over everything again.


Take 100% of the oem pvc system and toss it:

- Plug up hole in induction boot
- Buy 034 Motorsport or Integrated Engineering block breather adapter, 1' of hose and a vented catch can, good location for catch can is right above drivers side frame rail behind driver side headlight, or on false raintray to the left of the coolant reservior.

If you have a vented vc buy another 1'-2' of line and run to catch can too.

or: just dump to ground from block breather adapter with hose

Mad Cow
04-16-2014, 01:34 PM
Thank you lm0812, finally a voice of reason. I personally don't give two shits about environmental stuff but these things are here for good reason. Why spend time reinventing the wheel when you already have a perfectly good example sitting right in front of you that already works better and will last longer than anything you'll cobble together in your garage? If the stock system burns oil vapours, why the hell would you go through all the effort to route a hacked-together PCV system through the exhaust to burn it? And I don't want to smell oil vapour as I sit in traffic, this is a goddamn Audi not some prehistoric carbureted pushrod motor-powered beast, there's a level of refinement expected from a modern car and oil vapours coming through the vents doesn't align with it. Apparently the consensus here is it doesn't matter if your car's making all sorts of nasty smells and/or dripping oil because the stock PCv system is "crap", and I put that in quotes because it works perfectly damn fine so long as it's not clogged or broken. Why would you care about a bit of oil in your induction system? Do you pull it apart so often that getting your hands a bit more oily is such a huge issue to you?

Damn I feel like an old geezer yelling at teenagers to turn down their loud music sometimes. This whole contrarian attitude to engineering choices is insane, apparently every possible alternative that's not stock is better than everything stock just because it's not stock. This attitude is rampant on every single automotive forum I've been on and it needs to die out already.

Also, nobody addressed the oil pressure issue with having an open crankcase. Anyone wanna step up to the plate?

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 01:37 PM
^NLS

M-Hood
04-16-2014, 03:02 PM
I dont measure it, and im sure nobody else running a ground dump does either. my oil consumption is the same, and I dont leave any stains on the ground

What does stains on the ground where the car sits with the engine off have to do with how much oil you are dumping on the ground while you are driving?





Also, nobody addressed the oil pressure issue with having an open crankcase. Anyone wanna step up to the plate?


What oil pressure issue would that be? I have been running a vented catch can for years and push my car to 8500+ rpm and don't have any oil pressure issues.

There can be a increase oil pressure issue if the breather setup does not allow enough pressure out of the block.


The stock PCV setup is for emissions only and decreases the amount of power the engine can actually make.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 03:08 PM
What does stains on the ground where the car sits with the engine off have to do with how much oil you are dumping on the ground while you are driving?

I dont recall saying my engine was off. earlier in the thread I stated that if I put a towel or piece of cardboard under the dump, and rev the shit out of it, creating boost, theres nothing there.

also, my oil consumption is normal, so im not concerned.

BaseDrifter
04-16-2014, 03:35 PM
you are the one rationalizing here.

You(specifically) can avoid the pollution you are so concerned about. You own an internal combustion engine, most likely more than one, in which you were not forced to buy. They sell electric cars, pedal bikes, roller blades, skate boards, comfortable walking shoes, etc., but let me guess, you justify your "unavoidable" pollution by saying(fill in the blank).

i would love to hear it.

Wait, I'm the one rationalizing? I'm not the one saying that dumping to the ground causes an insignificant amount of oil to be deposited. Your reasoning is that since you haven't measured it and no one else has, and since you don't get much blow-by while revving it in neutral (where you won't build any boost), that it is not a problem. Ask Mike Hood if the drag strip would let a car make a pass with a PCV system that dumps to the ground.

If you want to make the argument that the oil your car drops on the ground is insignificant in the grand scheme of global (or even domestic) pollution of both the air and water supply, that's totally fine. What you're doing is insignificant, the difference is that it can be easily avoided.

If you want to make the argument that the oil you're dumping is very unlikely to cause an accident, that's totally fine. It is very unlikely to cause an accident. But can you eliminate that risk by not dumping to the ground? Absolutely.

Now you're saying I shouldn't own a car because I don't see the need to run a test pipe and dump oil? I justify my unavoidable pollution because I love cars, I love my car, I love working on my car, I love driving, I love having the freedom to come and go where I please when I please, and it's hard to go on a nice date when you tell a girl to meet you at the bus stop.

My tailpipe emissions are unavoidable. But you know what would make them worse? A test pipe. You know what would give me nearly the same power increase while still helping to mitigate the pollutants I put into the atmosphere? A HFC. Great, I run one. You know what is an avoidable form of pollution? Dumping your PCV system to the ground.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 03:57 PM
Wait, I'm the one rationalizing? I'm not the one saying that dumping to the ground causes an insignificant amount of oil to be deposited. Your reasoning is that since you haven't measured it and no one else has, and since you don't get much blow-by while revving it in neutral (where you won't build any boost), that it is not a problem. Ask Mike Hood if the drag strip would let a car make a pass with a PCV system that dumps to the ground.
If your car doesnt see any boost while reving the shit out of it, you need to check out your problem. im not mike hood, and im not going to a strip, so thats irrelevant

If you want to make the argument that the oil your car drops on the ground is insignificant in the grand scheme of global (or even domestic) pollution of both the air and water supply, that's totally fine. What you're doing is insignificant, the difference is that it can be easily avoided.
^this, and im not trying to avoid it

If you want to make the argument that the oil you're dumping is very unlikely to cause an accident, that's totally fine. It is very unlikely to cause an accident. But can you eliminate that risk by not dumping to the ground? Absolutely.
^this, and im not trying to eliminate the risk

Now you're saying I shouldn't own a car because I don't see the need to run a test pipe and dump oil? I justify my unavoidable pollution because I love cars, I love my car, I love working on my car, I love driving, I love having the freedom to come and go where I please when I please, and it's hard to go on a nice date when you tell a girl to meet you at the bus stop.
so your love of cars, and worring about going on a date with a chick gives you justification to pollute. I guess in your mind that trumps pollution. like I said, keep rationalizing, reasoning, justifying, or whatever you want to call your reason to pollute. you have your reasons, and I have mine. difference between us two is that im not the pot calling the kettle black.

My tailpipe emissions are unavoidable. But you know what would make them worse? A test pipe. You know what would give me nearly the same power increase while still helping to mitigate the pollutants I put into the atmosphere? A HFC. Great, I run one. You know what is an avoidable form of pollution? Dumping your PCV system to the ground.
Your tailpipe emmisions are avoidable. dont use internal combustion engine. theres many other ways of transportation, just stop trying to justify your polluton, you can completely stop at any given time
..

pbcrazy
04-16-2014, 04:15 PM
I don't want to get into this earth-saving argument but your car does NOT make boost when revving. At most you will make maybe ~5psi (Honestly I don't even think it's possible to get out of vacuum without load) but you would really have to rev the shit out of it for that.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 04:20 PM
I don't want to get into this earth-saving argument but your car does NOT make boost when revving. At most you will make maybe ~5psi (Honestly I don't even think it's possible to get out of vacuum without load) but you would really have to rev the shit out of it for that.

thanks for joining the argument! greatly appreciated.

your statement of not making boost than saying ill see 5psi is a contradiction. last time I checked, anything to the right past zero is boost.

EDIT: just to answer thread title. the reason for a pcv delete is to keep the crap from recirculating back into the engine.

RENOxDECEPTION
04-16-2014, 04:23 PM
Can we make some points without pointing fingers? This whole thread has an angry tone about it. I want to learn something new about the PCV not read pointless drama.

pbcrazy
04-16-2014, 04:25 PM
Your welcome!!
You would not make enough boost to significately impact the pcv system. I said 5psi as a guess but like I mentioned, I don't think you would make any boost (at all) revving.

RENOxDECEPTION
04-16-2014, 04:25 PM
Your welcome!!
You would not make enough boost to significately impact the pcv system. I said 5psi as a guess but like I mentioned, I don't think you would make any boost (at all) revving.

I can make boost while revving.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 04:30 PM
Your welcome!!
You would not make enough boost to significately impact the pcv system. I said 5psi as a guess but like I mentioned, I don't think you would make any boost (at all) revving.

stop thinking and start knowing.

all seriousness, pcv is nothing good for the car, maybe the environment. the proper way to delete it is running a CC with a vacuum line connected to it.

You can run straight dump to ground, or an e-scavenger too with no ill effects. maybe the only problem you will encounter is green peace on the forums.

A1 A2 German
04-16-2014, 04:51 PM
At Mad Cow,

What is all this OEM superiority about? And what is all the "hacked together pvc system" talk?

You're inventing wording out of thin air, since when is plastic superior to 300psi professional braided line and JEGS -AN fittings?

Hacked, what's hacked?

Good grief, cobbled together in your garage? Since when is the most expensive best quality line and fittings used on the most expensive built cars in the world cobbled?


You're not even forced induction, you're 2.8, come one man.


YOU ARE COMPLETELY OVER LOOKING THE OEM SYSTEM IN INSUFFICIENT FOR INCREASED TURBOS AND SOFTWARE. I do not understand what you do not understand. The oem system is for OEM cars, end of story, people on the forums are not driving oem cars.


There is no smells, there is no dripping oil, there is no hacks, there is no ghetto, I do not understand what you do not understand. You are naturally aspirated.

[drive]

Mad Cow
04-16-2014, 04:59 PM
What oil pressure issue would that be? I have been running a vented catch can for years and push my car to 8500+ rpm and don't have any oil pressure issues.

There can be a increase oil pressure issue if the breather setup does not allow enough pressure out of the block.



You'll only lose a couple psi worst case scenario, but that could make all the difference at hot idle. Not really a problem for you, but for all those people who idle for hours in traffic it can't be good. This is with an open crankcase though, a catch can would probably provide enough resistance to keep the pressure inside the crankcase in check.

My main point is catch cans and pcv deletes aren't for everyone; if you're making big power on a track then no problem I respect that, but if you're daily driving a mostly stock car then there's absolutely no reason to go about tearing out every piece of emissions equipment "just because".

@A1 A2: Read my sig again, see where it says ex-2.8 now 1.8t? I've been driving and tinkering with a 1.8t for a while now. I had the chance to toss the whole pcv system but I decided against it because I like to keep things looking stock and don't want to bother messing with a system that already works perfectly fine. And since when does the motor in the car I currently drive change the validity of my statements anyway? Most people here have mostly stock cars, the minority are making big power. OP has a stock (or mostly stock) car so whatever applies to people making 400+whp doesn't necessarily apply to him.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 05:04 PM
At Mad Cow,

What is all this OEM superiority about? And what is all the "hacked together pvc system" talk?

You're inventing wording out of thin air, since when is plastic superior to 300psi professional braided line and JEGS -AN fittings?

Hacked, what's hacked?

Good grief, cobbled together in your garage? Since when is the most expensive best quality line and fittings used on the most expensive built cars in the world cobbled?


You're not even forced induction, you're 2.8, come one man.


YOU ARE COMPLETELY OVER LOOKING THE OEM SYSTEM IN INSUFFICIENT FOR INCREASED TURBOS AND SOFTWARE. I do not understand what you do not understand. The oem system is for OEM cars, end of story, people on the forums are not driving oem cars.


There is no smells, there is no dripping oil, there is no hacks, there is no ghetto, I do not understand what you do not understand. You are naturally aspirated.

[drive]

I couldnt even bother to respond to mad cows post. everything he said is completely wrong and I didnt want to write a composition in rebuddle.

the pcv system is for emissions only.

the pcv system is for emissions only.

its not even the fact that its prone to failure, it recirculates all that crap/soot/vapor/oil/debris back into the intake tract.

has any of you guys ever saw what comes out of a catch can?
I tell you its not something I want back into an engine that I give 2 shits about.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 05:07 PM
My main point is catch cans and pcv deletes aren't for everyone; if you're making big power on a track then no problem I respect that, but if you're daily driving a mostly stock car then there's absolutely no reason to go about tearing out every piece of emissions equipment "just because".

the reason is not "just because". theres a just reason to rip the shit out, that is if you care about your engine.

A1 A2 German
04-16-2014, 05:13 PM
I have a very nasty pic of the contents of a catch can of mine, I understand it's all oil in the end, but it is thee worst stuff I've ever seen.....I would not want to reintroduce that stuff. I also remember my fmic and fmic piping pre-catch can..what a mess!

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 05:17 PM
I have a very nasty pic of the contents of a catch can of mine, I understand it's all oil in the end, but it is thee worst stuff I've ever seen.....I would not want to reintroduce that stuff. I also remember my fmic and fmic piping pre-catch can..what a mess!

post the pic for those who run stock pcv system

A1 A2 German
04-16-2014, 05:34 PM
post the pic for those who run stock pcv system

Shoot! Found the old thread on The Car Lounge....the pictures are missing......but look at the comments lol when they did see the pics

Yeah, it was so bad and so nasty I made a thread about it in 2010 pre-catch can.


Can-I-Haz-Catch-Can-Din-Din-For-Two?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4789262-Can-I-Haz-Catch-Can-Din-Din-For-Two&highlight=catch+can

Mad Cow
04-16-2014, 05:37 PM
I have a very nasty pic of the contents of a catch can of mine, I understand it's all oil in the end, but it is thee worst stuff I've ever seen.....I would not want to reintroduce that stuff. I also remember my fmic and fmic piping pre-catch can..what a mess!

That's a moot point when you consider the timeframe over which this happens, by the same logic you shouldn't drink tap water because fluoride is a dangerous chemical. Sure you'll die if you drink a glass of fluoride-saturated water, but trace amounts are perfectly fine. How many hours of running does it take to accumulate 10ml of oil in a catch can? Spread that 10ml out over that time and you're looking at imperceptible amounts. It might pool up in your intercooler, but what does that harm? Show me a study that conclusively proves that the oil vapour introduced by a pcv system is detrimental to engine life, until then it's just speculation and theory.

A1 A2 German
04-16-2014, 06:23 PM
But we are not talking about the accumulation of 10ml in a catch can, we are talking much more then that when using a pvc system, why?

We are talking about more oil consumed or drawn as the induction boot is a vacuum and draws on the pvc system. A pvc system uses more oil, a catch can just catches small trace amounts of vapor air that gets pushed out. When I say a pvc system uses more oil, it's due the to fact of the positive pressure pushing out oil/oil vapor with the addition of a draw under a vacuum of the induction boot.

It's

push

vs

push + pull

The PVC is push + pull. But, we are talking more then keeping a FMIC clean, with I do not need a study or 2000 word essay to need to justify my want. And not worried about or saying an oem PVC will hurt an engine, saying I want a cleaner engine and my engine to breath better under heaveir stressed vs oem 180hp.

pbcrazy
04-16-2014, 06:57 PM
stop thinking and start knowing.

all seriousness, pcv is nothing good for the car, maybe the environment. the proper way to delete it is running a CC with a vacuum line connected to it.

You can run straight dump to ground, or an e-scavenger too with no ill effects. maybe the only problem you will encounter is green peace on the forums.

Why don't you start "knowing" as you obviously have no clue how load on an engine effects a turbo making boost.
I'm sorry but If you are making more than 5psi in nuetral I would love to see a video, especially if you are off the stock hairdryer (k03). There are not enough gas and they are not moving fast enough to see anymore than 5psi in nuetral, and like I said I wouldn't see a bit of boost in nuetral with my frankenturbo (not that I'm stupid enough to rev my engine to death)
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/471804-boosting-while-in-neutral

DeltaAlpha9
04-16-2014, 07:31 PM
Is there a right up anywhere for a PCV delete for the AHA? I've had enough of leaky valve cover gaskets after 10,000km.

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 08:19 PM
Why don't you start "knowing" as you obviously have no clue how load on an engine effects a turbo making boost.
I'm sorry but If you are making more than 5psi in nuetral I would love to see a video, especially if you are off the stock hairdryer (k03). There are not enough gas and they are not moving fast enough to see anymore than 5psi in nuetral, and like I said I wouldn't see a bit of boost in nuetral with my frankenturbo (not that I'm stupid enough to rev my engine to death)
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/471804-boosting-while-in-neutral

have you switched arguments to my side now, since the thread you linked proves everything I said? that I can build 5psi revving the engine in neutral, or did i miss something?

GrapeBandit
04-16-2014, 09:17 PM
It might pool up in your intercooler, but what does that harm? Show me a study that conclusively proves that the oil vapour introduced by a pcv system is detrimental to engine life, until then it's just speculation and theory.

uhmm, actually the oil will coat everything on its way back into the engine. it will develop in theboost hoses, I/C, intake manifold & intake valves.
on the other side of these valves is where the combustion is taking place. the temperatures in there is so hot this is what actually causes the oil carbon to form on the valves.
oil baked on your valves can cause loss in fuel economy, loss in power, pre-ignition, and knocking.

back to what oil in tbe I/C is going to harm... the oil passing through it can actually coat the cooling fins lowering the efficiency to cool the air.

for an engine to be the most efficient you want fuel and air ONLY….any oil in will hinder the explosion resulting in less power.

but then again, this is all just speculation[rolleyes]

A1 A2 German
04-16-2014, 10:34 PM
^

Ding ding ding

I used to pull my intake manifold and Seafoam the piss outta the valves, as well, looked like the inside of a motor (kinda a joke as motors look dirty).....I no longer have to do that since a catch can. The valves always look good now.

pbcrazy
04-17-2014, 06:04 AM
have you switched arguments to my side now, since the thread you linked proves everything I said? that I can build 5psi revving the engine in neutral, or did i miss something?

Perhaps I should have phrased my original reply better, that is my bad. You will not see anywhere close to the amount of boost in nuetral compared to when the engine is under load (obviously). Therefore, revving the engine would not be accurate representation of how much oil you dump on the road. And besides, for those of you running a vented catch can or open crankcase, there isn't near as much vaccuum being applied to the crap oil which means that some of the nasty oil you keep bringing up will never leave your crankcase (I would rather have to seafoam my engine every 50,000 miles than have that crap left in my crankcase)

GrapeBandit
04-17-2014, 06:24 AM
Perhaps I should have phrased my original reply better, that is my bad. You will not see anywhere close to the amount of boost in nuetral compared to when the engine is under load (obviously). Therefore, revving the engine would not be accurate representation of how much oil you dump on the road. And besides, for those of you running a vented catch can or open crankcase, there isn't near as much vaccuum being applied to the crap oil which means that some of the nasty oil you keep bringing up will never leave your crankcase (I would rather have to seafoam my engine every 50,000 miles than have that crap left in my crankcase)

haaaa. keep seafoaming your engine there bud[up]

I recommend against that too. but we will leave that for another thread. this one already got sidetracked for a while with all the green peace folk earlier.

bug to no avail, at least we finally answered op's question and hopefully opened the eyes of ppl as fo why the pcv system is no good for your car and truly an emissions thing

M-Hood
04-17-2014, 06:48 AM
I dont recall saying my engine was off. earlier in the thread I stated that if I put a towel or piece of cardboard under the dump, and rev the shit out of it, creating boost, theres nothing there.

also, my oil consumption is normal, so im not concerned.

Free revving the car is nothing like driving the car under load making real boost.

Mad Cow
04-17-2014, 08:49 AM
uhmm, actually the oil will coat everything on its way back into the engine. it will develop in theboost hoses, I/C, intake manifold & intake valves.
on the other side of these valves is where the combustion is taking place. the temperatures in there is so hot this is what actually causes the oil carbon to form on the valves.
oil baked on your valves can cause loss in fuel economy, loss in power, pre-ignition, and knocking.

back to what oil in tbe I/C is going to harm... the oil passing through it can actually coat the cooling fins lowering the efficiency to cool the air.

for an engine to be the most efficient you want fuel and air ONLY….any oil in will hinder the explosion resulting in less power.

but then again, this is all just speculation[rolleyes]

It is speculation until you get some hard evidence that the trace amounts of oil introduced by the pcv actually measurably affects engine life and performance. I agree that massive amounts of oil vapor is bad, but I'm saying a small amount doesn't appreciably affect anything. Dirty intake valves from oil vapor are only a problem with with direct injection engines because they don't have fuel washing them down every combustion cycle.

The world's not black and white, everything is shade of gray. All your arguments are based on this black or white, right or wrong view. It's not like that at all.

GrapeBandit
04-17-2014, 10:18 AM
It is speculation until you get some hard evidence that the trace amounts of oil introduced by the pcv actually measurably affects engine life and performance.
I just explained it above. Have you ever heard anyone saying their oil catch can is filled with speculation? Of course not. that would sound silly. Its filled with gunky oil, fuel, debris, water/condensation.


It is speculation until you get some hard evidence that the trace amounts of oil introduced by the pcv actually measurably affects engine life and performance.
since there is "no hard evidence" and its only "trace amounts of oil", you should have no problem dumping this in your oil filler cap then.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/bluefox280/DIY%20FAQ%20%20Mini/BSH%20Speed%20Shop/IMG_0119s.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/bluefox280/DIY%20FAQ%20%20Mini/BSH%20Speed%20Shop/IMG_2613s.jpg

http://www.velosterturbo.org/forum/attachments/veloster-performance/15492d1385907805-oil-catch-can-drain-pics-image.jpg
^after one week




Dirty intake valves from oil vapor are only a problem with with direct injection engines because they don't have fuel washing them down every combustion cycle.
Not only, it just occurs more frequent in direct injection engines like the FSI.also, the carbon buildup it not just limited to the valves, it build up on spark plugs, piston tops, and the combustion chambers.

Have you never seen carbon buildup on a non-direct injection engine before[confused]

It can not hurt to delete the stock pcv and keep any and all crap from getting back into the engine. The cleaner, the better.

Mad Cow
04-17-2014, 12:50 PM
You're not understanding my point at all. I've seen what catch cans catch, it looks scary but that doesn't mean it's bad for the motor to burn this stuff up through the pcv system. Water in the oil evaporates when the engine's warm, likewise with gasoline, warm up the catch can to above the boiling point of water and it'll be almost pure oil in there, much like what you'd find in your oil pan. I also find it funny how the creator of those first 2 pictures says it's a chemical reaction between oil and water vapour, by that logic mixing sugar into tea is a chemical reaction too.

As for carbon buildup, a little bit never hurt anything. Again you're using your black and white logic here, a ton of carbon is bad news, a little bit is whatever. Motors are dirty things, you'll go insane trying to keep everything sparkling clean inside and out. To me it's not worth it, I see that to you it is, but that doesn't mean everyone shares your view, nor does it mean everyone shares mine.

I think this thread has run its course and that enough info has been provided for a 3rd party to make a decision themselves as to whether or not they should rip out their pcv system, if anyone else has anything to add feel free, more information is always better.

GrapeBandit
04-17-2014, 01:49 PM
it looks scary but that doesn't mean it's bad for the motor to burn this stuff up through the pcv system.
Wrong, and wrong.
Nothing gets burned through the pcv system. A pcv system recirculates crank gasses, oil, fuel, debris or what have you back into the intake system.

It is bad for the engine to burn this stuff off for various reasons said in the thread. you only want air & fuel in the combustion chamber, oil is no good.


I also find it funny how the creator of those first 2 pictures says it's a chemical reaction between oil and water vapour, by that logic mixing sugar into tea is a chemical reaction too.
you missed the point. the pics were merely to show the crap that goes back into the intake tract while running stock pcv.


As for carbon buildup, a little bit never hurt anything. Again you're using your black and white logic here, a ton of carbon is bad news, a little bit is whatever.
wrong.
any carbon buildup is no good, even if only a little bit. where do you think a ton of carbon buildup comes from[confused] it doesnt happen overnight, it builds up over time! guess what?! little by little

seems to me that you are the one using black and white logic here.

melomandn
04-17-2014, 09:55 PM
How did this thread go from informative to a whole lot of butt hurt within a couple days?

Like a1 a2 German said, plumbing it to the exhaust through stainless lines and AN fittings is far from hacked... It's much better than the 15 year old plastic/rubber currently plumbed throughout the bay.

Op asked for the purpose of a pcv delete, to keep this thread informative pcv stands for "positive crankcase ventilation" so technically you never want to delete the pcv system so we'll refer to it as "simplifying the pcv system"

Reasons for this
1. Replace old leaking parts with higher quality parts
2. Simplifying the engine bay as a whole, making it easier to work on the engine
3. Keep intake tract clean of oil.