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rvca3112
02-25-2014, 03:20 PM
I'm not going to start this thread to make any bad claims about epic tuning/jfonz, just to allow insight into my fellow audi enthusiasts who are looking for more power.

Now some back ground information.

My build started with my car having a bad crankshaft. I had a shop install a new clutch and flywheel ((fx400 race clutch and spec flywheel)) the install didn't go so well. The flywheel wasn't seated properly which resulted in the flywheel pulling the crank bolts out of my crank. Long story short, motor build time. I went to a local shop, JA autowerks, a great great great shop to do my build. Ended up getting a brand new aeb bottom end, h beam rods, 9.2:1 pistons, many 034 motor sports handling equipment, ATP gt3071r eliminator, ATP exhaust mani, 660 cc injectors, etc. you guys get the rest in terms of modifications with supporting mods. Once the build was over john ((owner of JA autowerks)) and I were very satisfied with how the build went. The overall needed a good tuning though. October 21, 2013, Prior to shopping around for a tuner, I did some base line dyno pulls on a all wheel drive mustang dyno. I put down 280 all wheel horse and 290 wheel torque. My air/fuels were super rich, so I know I'm capable of making much more power that way. I had a eurodyne setup that I wanted whoever that I chose to tune the car to utilize so that I had all my files on hand. This is the beginning of September 2013.

[/img]http://s910.photobucket.com/user/rvca3112/media/360334CE-36CE-4723-8BD3-503CCC31F26F-1198-000000DEC7CFD22D_zpsa2ec8015.jpg.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dh ttp://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/rvca3112/360334CE-36CE-4723-8BD3-503CCC31F26F-1198-000000DEC7CFD22D_zpsa2ec8015.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D[/img]

Now, time for tuning, mid October 2013. Discussing with my mechanic he mentioned to me that josh, aka jfonz was actually local to me. I went with him also because I wouldn't have to drive a few hours to have my car tuned. So I got in contact with him and epic tuning. I specified all my modifications. $600 dollars for the tune. I dropped my car off at a local Audi/vw specialist in toms river, njwhere josh apparently is working out of. I left a laptop equipped with all euro dyne applications on and the the eurodyne cable. Two days went by and josh got in touch with me in regards to having some difficulty with the cable detecting the car. He gave me the option to use his software and that he would have to pick up a spare ecu to do the tuning. I said by all means and to go ahead. Two weeks later I got the phone call saying my car was done, end of October 2013. Halloween actually. Granted two weeks seemed a little long but he does have a full time job. Fine. Now I get to the car and I notice a few things. One my knee bolster on my lower dash was hanging. It was not brought in this way. He said he lost them and would send them to me. Fine. I got the keys and started it up. I noticed my idle was hopping around but the motor was warm. I overlooked it at the time. My ride had left already and I needed the car. We went for a ride and did notice the car was smoother, yes but it was slower. He said I was in stage 3 s4 territory. Which if he was right then everyone with stage 3 s4s do not have fast cars ((they're fast as hell I know, I was being sarcastic)) so I was kind of bummed the car wasn't sucking me into my seat like I was being told it would. I stopped the car and the wide and/turbo timer by innovate motor sports I have didn't work. It was reading the a/f but it would just shut off. So I didn't drive the car for two weeks after getting it because I'm anal about my car and wanted the knee bolster bolts back. Josh made a few promises to mail me the bolts, then he said he would just bring them to my restaurant. I didn't see them. They eventually paypaled me $100 dollars back to make good with the bolts. Very cool. Then the winter/holiday season came. Very hectic, very busy, very snowy.

So after a break in the snow for the tri state area, I went to the same shop with the dyno to see what I was playing with especially being tuned now. I did 1 pull. My eyes couldn't believe what I saw. I made 250 horse and 252 torque

[/img]http://s910.photobucket.com/user/rvca3112/media/9D64F572-AFDA-4E90-928D-7756DC94BACC_zpsgytbdusk.jpg.html%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/rvca3112/9D64F572-AFDA-4E90-928D-7756DC94BACC_zpsgytbdusk.jpg%5B/IMG%5D%5B/URL%5D[/img]

Now obviously have a issue. I didn't do anything to the car motor wise since the tune. I have no boost leaks, which I tested. Also if I did have a boost leak the a/f would be very high. My mechanic said to me during my rs4 recaro swap that the wiring was hacked up and now how he left it when it left the shop.

Now I send epic tuning a email saying the situation. I was as professional as possible. Saying let's work this out between us and now the forums. Josh said thst because I didn't tell him the car was a eliminator, it wouldn't be making crazy horsepower. Which again, wasn't my intention on having the car tuned. I wanted, just like everyone else who has their cars tuned, whether it be apr, Giac, unitronic, maestro, etc you're trying to get as much power from your car. Which is what I was looking for. I said to him I felt cheated and that I'm not happy with these results. At all. A 30 horse drop and 40 torque drop is just bad. He made me the offer to check the car again to see if it developed any leaks and that he would overlook his tune. Which he has said to me is at it's max. So what is there to over look? I would have to pay for the dyno rental to have him check everything. Umm no thanks. I sent them a response saying I don't want them touching my car anymore and said this was a waste and I was hopeful of a refund. Even a partial refund since a)I didn't get what I paid for b)I can't use this tune since it's very rough ((rough idle, flat spots in there upper rpm range, my cel for emissions I asked to have written out weren't)) I was sent a email a email from josh saying that he's mad that I would make such accusation of him hacking up the wiring under my dash ((I have the pictures)) and that he never promised me a faster car, just a more drivable one. And also that he would overlook the tune but I have to pay for the dyno time. At $125 an hour that can get a bit much.

I've heard many more horror stories from other people. Some of you are going to say "he's offering to tune your car and you're mad?!" And my answer is yes, I am. The car took two weeks of "tuning" to where it is now. Slower. Then as a customer, I have to be inconvenienced again by having to have a ride to the dyno shop to have him with my car for who knows how long. And also, I was under the impression thst the car would have been dyno tuned from the get go. Which is how all their tuning is depicted on their site and Facebook page. My car was being street tuned.

Which means, I just sunk a considerable amount of money into my car, to then have someone hook up a laptop and do pulls on the open road to see what's going on with my car. No thank you. Bad news waiting to happen. I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with epic tuning group and for people to maybe do just a tiny bit more research than just jumping on something like I did.

rvca3112
02-25-2014, 03:22 PM
Apologies for the non functioning pictures

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/rvca3112/th_360334CE-36CE-4723-8BD3-503CCC31F26F-1198-000000DEC7CFD22D_zpsa2ec8015.jpg (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/rvca3112/?action=view&current=360334CE-36CE-4723-8BD3-503CCC31F26F-1198-000000DEC7CFD22D_zpsa2ec8015.jpg)

Second picture

Showing the difference/comparison of both before and after pulls

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/rvca3112/th_9D64F572-AFDA-4E90-928D-7756DC94BACC_zpsgytbdusk.jpg (http://s910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/rvca3112/?action=view&current=9D64F572-AFDA-4E90-928D-7756DC94BACC_zpsgytbdusk.jpg)

boomtime
02-25-2014, 03:35 PM
1. - I dont know any of these guys or these particular shops but nobody should ever expect a refund on a tune...
2. - Obviously once you said "i dont want you guys touching my car anymore" there would be no refund and since you wont let them try a retune what is the alternative?
3. - Find a new tuner and blow another $600... rookie got $600 off you and hacked up your wiring....sucks
4. - I would never drop a car off for tune, any time I ever had a car on a dyno I was sitting in the car with the tuner or standing next to him watching the tuning, this usually means late night dyno tuning for those of us with full time jobs but thats been my experience.

BTW what was your HP goal with this build like 400+WHP?
Sorry if I sound like a dick here...its not my intention.

rvca3112
02-25-2014, 03:42 PM
Not at all dude. I understand I may be being a bit of a baby, and I know a refund is a long shot. And yes I completely agree with you, my next time around I will be along side my tuner the entire time to ensure everything is done right. Now, this time I couldn't/didn't. Let's say you, boomtime, ((I'm using you as a example since you responded first)) now you're in the business of making cars faster. I bring my car to you. It comes back with some issues. I come to find out thst my car is slower after I got it back from you. I as the consumer has a right to be upset. Which is the point of my posting.

The goals for my car are 350ish. Nothing I feel is out of reach given my set up.

boomtime
02-25-2014, 03:50 PM
Not at all dude. I understand I may be being a bit of a baby, and I know a refund is a long shot. And yes I completely agree with you, my next time around I will be along side my tuner the entire time to ensure everything is done right. Now, this time I couldn't/didn't. Let's say you, boomtime, ((I'm using you as a example since you responded first)) now you're in the business of making cars faster. I bring my car to you. It comes back with some issues. I come to find out thst my car is slower after I got it back from you. I as the consumer has a right to be upset. Which is the point of my posting.

The goals for my car are 350ish. Nothing I feel is out of reach given my set up.

Yea it definitely seems like you got screwed here and have the right to air it out!

viceprp
02-25-2014, 04:28 PM
I would send it back to him and continue to explain that the car isn't near its max and that he needs to look at it again. Aaron made over 400whp on his elim 3076 on E85.

You won't get your money back but you sure as hell should get his best effort for a $600 tune. Pick a day (even a sunday) for the two of you to drive the car and get a real street tune. Kevin Black does street tunes with his Lugtronic software and can dial in a system in roughly 1.5/2hrs. You be stern and have him make this right bc a lose of 30whp and 40ft-lbs is unacceptable.

M-Hood
02-26-2014, 06:07 AM
Is the tune you have now running the same amount of boost as it was before?

spinall4
02-26-2014, 06:12 AM
not that it really matters in regards to the power level dropping but just overall low numbers, would this be on a mustang dyno?

rvca3112
02-26-2014, 08:47 AM
Boost levels aren't as high as before. Prior to tuning I would say ((guessing because my boost gauge only goes to 25psi)) 30 psi. Now I'm at about 25-26. Prior to the tuning i had no timing ((apparently))...

And yes this is on a mustang dyno. Only dyno's I have available around me.

But still paid money for lower numbers/less power. It's just annoying. I feel very cheated.

Seerlah
02-26-2014, 02:29 PM
Not to be that guy, but an OTS tune would have yielded better results. Def have him correct it.

And for clarification, street tuning is better than dyno tuning. Tuned more for real world driving. But...you should be the one driving the car while he street tunes from the passenger seat.

rvca3112
02-26-2014, 04:40 PM
Not to be that guy, but an OTS tune would have yielded better results. Def have him correct it.

And for clarification, street tuning is better than dyno tuning. Tuned more for real world driving. But...you should be the one driving the car while he street tunes from the passenger seat.

You're always that guy haha. I know I'm going to go with the maestro 660cc tune and go from there. Kinda bullshit to deal with a company like this...

M-Hood
02-27-2014, 05:45 AM
Boost levels aren't as high as before. Prior to tuning I would say ((guessing because my boost gauge only goes to 25psi)) 30 psi. Now I'm at about 25-26. Prior to the tuning i had no timing ((apparently))...

And yes this is on a mustang dyno. Only dyno's I have available around me.

But still paid money for lower numbers/less power. It's just annoying. I feel very cheated.

Did you ask them why they turned the boost down, they might have also softened the boost onset which would cause less power as the turbo is spooling up.

rvca3112
02-27-2014, 07:46 PM
Did you ask them why they turned the boost down, they might have also softened the boost onset which would cause less power as the turbo is spooling up.

From what I remember he have th car less boost and more timing...

M-Hood
03-03-2014, 06:52 AM
From what I remember he have th car less boost and more timing...

Do you have any logs of the currant tune?

rvca3112
03-03-2014, 10:31 AM
Unfortunately not. I dumped the tune for a eurodyne 660cc tune. Car is much much more drivable/faster/idles better. All around improvement.

rvca3112
03-03-2014, 10:34 AM
All I have is that dyno sheet at the moment. By the way Mike, this catch can is awesome! Thanks so much!

viceprp
03-03-2014, 07:30 PM
Unfortunately not. I dumped the tune for a eurodyne 660cc tune. Car is much much more drivable/faster/idles better. All around improvement.
Damn, if I were in your shoes, I would have went down there and gave him a piece of my mind. I wouldn't care if he was expecting your or not. This would piss me off and $600 isn't something you just swallow.

rvca3112
03-03-2014, 08:50 PM
Normally I would but there is no store front for his operation. He works out of a local tuner shop. He also works for the military as his real job. So it's hard to catch him. Emails don't work.

Poopie
03-04-2014, 05:47 AM
Create a new email account and see if he responds to that. That will show you if he is just ignoring you.

zandrew
03-04-2014, 06:41 PM
1. - I dont know any of these guys or these particular shops but nobody should ever expect a refund on a tune...
2. - Obviously once you said "i dont want you guys touching my car anymore" there would be no refund and since you wont let them try a retune what is the alternative?
3. - Find a new tuner and blow another $600... rookie got $600 off you and hacked up your wiring....sucks
4. - I would never drop a car off for tune, any time I ever had a car on a dyno I was sitting in the car with the tuner or standing next to him watching the tuning, this usually means late night dyno tuning for those of us with full time jobs but thats been my experience.

BTW what was your HP goal with this build like 400+WHP?
Sorry if I sound like a dick here...its not my intention.

I think you are way off with this. You have someone tune a car because they are CAPABLE of tuning a car. If they are not and have no clue of your obvious goals they should have the intestinial fortitiude to say "My tune wll suck compared to your base tune". He basically whiped his ass on $600 and flushed straight into the tuners wallet.

RVCA3112- Before buying anything that has a significant outcome to final product (weather turbo or tune) research as much possible and ask other members that have used products for their opinions. If anything you are guilty of not doing enough research. Me personally I would have asked as many questions as possible and seen how well he could explain the tuning process to you. You don't have to know jack shit about tuning but you should be able to get a feel if they are competent or not.

You have every right to be pissed.

rvca3112
03-04-2014, 08:11 PM
[QUOTE=zandrew;9533022]I think you are way off with this. You have someone tune a car because they are CAPABLE of tuning a car. If they are not and have no clue of your obvious goals they should have the intestinial fortitiude to say "My tune wll suck compared to your base tune". He basically whiped his ass on $600 and flushed straight into the tuners wallet.

RVCA3112- Before buying anything that has a significant outcome to final product (weather turbo or tune) research as much possible and ask other members that have used products for their opinions. If anything you are guilty of not doing enough research. Me personally I would have asked as many questions as possible and seen how well he could explain the tuning process to you. You don't have to know jack shit about tuning but you should be able to get a feel if they are competent or not.

You have every right to be pissed.[/QUOTE

I know I'm guilty of that. But I can say that many people hear the name jfonz in the Audi community that aren't on the forums all the time think performance. That's what I thought when I saw he was local. My mechanic kinda warned me about him from past experiences with him ((tuned a rs6 and it wouldn't rev past 4500 and an issue with a a)) but I needed the car tuned. Nothing having a direct shop like rsworx or kmdtuning ((granted close to me)) in my immediate area. Just sucks that epic tuning as a whole would allow a car to get out with suck a shit tune. Again, the purpose of this thread is so that when people are looking for tuning solutions and thy search hopefully this will help them out.

rvca3112
03-04-2014, 08:13 PM
Funny thing is is I did ask him a lot of questions. And the answers seemed relatively good. Maybe I was just too excited to a)have my car that I had been building finally done and b) blinded by potential speed.

boomtime
03-04-2014, 08:14 PM
I think you are way off with this. You have someone tune a car because they are CAPABLE of tuning a car. If they are not and have no clue of your obvious goals they should have the intestinial fortitiude to say "My tune wll suck compared to your base tune". He basically whiped his ass on $600 and flushed straight into the tuners wallet.

RVCA3112- Before buying anything that has a significant outcome to final product (weather turbo or tune) research as much possible and ask other members that have used products for their opinions. If anything you are guilty of not doing enough research. Me personally I would have asked as many questions as possible and seen how well he could explain the tuning process to you. You don't have to know jack shit about tuning but you should be able to get a feel if they are competent or not.

You have every right to be pissed.

How am I way off on this?
Stop acting like you have never made a bad buy ever in your life, im sure you have.
Hindsight is always 20/20, thanks for the reminder.
How do you know a tuner is "CAPABLE" unless he is either recommended (which he was if you read original post) OR you pay for a tune at least once???

For Seerlah: Obviously airflow is better on a street tune than on a dyno among other factors but you dont know what power/tq your actually making on street tune, just how it feels which can vary greatly.

zandrew
03-04-2014, 08:53 PM
How am I way off on this?
Stop acting like you have never made a bad buy ever in your life, im sure you have.
Hindsight is always 20/20, thanks for the reminder.
How do you know a tuner is "CAPABLE" unless he is either recommended (which he was if you read original post) OR you pay for a tune at least once???

For Seerlah: Obviously airflow is better on a street tune than on a dyno among other factors but you dont know what power/tq your actually making on street tune, just how it feels which can vary greatly.

Your acting as if there is no recourse. Yes I did read the post and though someone mentioned the tuner to him does not leave the buyer responsible for some dumb shit making a mess of a tune and then taking his money just for the buyer to go back to what he was running prior to the mishap.

The tuner implied that the car was performing at Stage 3 S4 level and it is not. He set the expectation and then did not meet it. The buyer should by all means expect a refund since it did not meet the expectation that the tuner himself set.

If I sell you a can of Blue Ribbon Horse shit and ship it to you and you get all excited since you bought a can of Blue ribbon horse shit and you open up your prized can of horse shit to find its plain jane cat shit instead your not going to be pissed and expect some type of refund? After all its still shit but not exactly what you bargained for nor did it meet the expectation I set?

Yes I have been ripped off. That is what I call a bad purchase. It does not stop me from trying to have the situation made right nor should it stop anyone else. I work hard for my money and expect to get what I paid for. It would be different if the buyer set his own expectations and the power is just not there but in this case the tuner specifically implied a certain level of performance that was an improvement upon the cars prior performance and the final product did not match his implication.

Furthermore are you are willing to take your car back to someone that couldn't get it right the first time and give him a second shot? He is more liable to push it the second time and since he is not liable for the tune then would he be liable for the motor afterward if he blows it?