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View Full Version : WTF head bolts?!?! What other head bolt tools are there?



zandrew
02-10-2014, 10:01 PM
I have both triple square and poly drive tools and neither fit. I shined my light in the hole and it looks like a torx bit. Wtf other head bolt removal tools are there?

The motor is from a 98 passat.

nynoah
02-10-2014, 11:16 PM
http://www.metalnerd.com/ might have it.

qo0v
02-11-2014, 08:28 AM
It should be the polydrive. I used http://www.ecstuning.com/ES1876780/ and it fit perfectly.

sa_seahawker
02-11-2014, 08:49 AM
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/235957_x600.jpg

redline380
02-11-2014, 08:54 AM
It should be the polydrive. I used http://www.ecstuning.com/ES1876780/ and it fit perfectly.

98 is 058 block and those use triple square style.

Zandrew, probably you need to clean the bolt head better, or keep rotating the bit till it goes. You may need to snag it a tad and tap on the end of the bit because it is a pretty tight fit. I know I had to do that

zandrew
02-11-2014, 01:41 PM
I have both and tried both. They just wouldn't fit. I didn't want to force it in but I'll try that.

M-Hood
02-12-2014, 08:53 AM
I have both and tried both. They just wouldn't fit. I didn't want to force it in but I'll try that.

There are a few different sizes out there, so it could be that you just don't have the right size tool for the head bolts that are in there. The very first head bolt tool we got for my car was the wrong size even though it was for one of the stock head bolts Audi had used on the 1.8t.

The triple square can be a 10mm or 12mm.


Are you able to see the bolt head to tell if it is a 6 point or a 12 point?

redline380
02-12-2014, 10:04 AM
There are a few different sizes out there, so it could be that you just don't have the right size tool for the head bolts that are in there. The very first head bolt tool we got for my car was the wrong size even though it was for one of the stock head bolts Audi had used on the 1.8t.

The triple square can be a 10mm or 12mm.


Are you able to see the bolt head to tell if it is a 6 point or a 12 point?

I am only aware of three types of headbolt styles from 98-01.

10mm triple square- The kind he most assuredly has, all 058 1.8t's that I know of
12mm triple square- 2.0 Diesel, VR6 engines
#10 polydrive- 06a 1.8t's, v6's

there is #9 polydirve, but I really am not sure what those are for. I guess it is *possible* zandrew's engine has #9 polydrive bolts, but they would have had to have been replaced at one point in time with aftermarket bolts. That would make sense why neither of his headbolt tools will fit in it.

With that said, my #10 polydrive tool fit fine in two engines with stock headbolts still installed, and another time I replaced the bolts with units I bought from VW dealership.

M-Hood
02-12-2014, 03:06 PM
I am only aware of three types of headbolt styles from 98-01.

10mm triple square- The kind he most assuredly has, all 058 1.8t's that I know of
12mm triple square- 2.0 Diesel, VR6 engines
#10 polydrive- 06a 1.8t's, v6's

there is #9 polydirve, but I really am not sure what those are for. I guess it is *possible* zandrew's engine has #9 polydrive bolts, but they would have had to have been replaced at one point in time with aftermarket bolts. That would make sense why neither of his headbolt tools will fit in it.

With that said, my #10 polydrive tool fit fine in two engines with stock headbolts still installed, and another time I replaced the bolts with units I bought from VW dealership.


But has yet to say which of the 2 triple square tools he has. Plus seeing he is most likely not the original owner of the car it is really hard to saw what bolts are in the head at this time.

zandrew
02-12-2014, 03:18 PM
I have the full set of Triple square drives but my bolts are 6 points. I checked that with a flash light. I did not buy a high quality drive but a cheap one and I am suspecting it was not machined as well as others. I am thinking they have been replaced on my motor SINCE one of the turbo manifold studs has been replaced with a bolt. Also the gaskets on both intake and exhaust has been replaced.

What I was worried about is that the previous owner used something cheap and the head bolts had some funky type of socket style or was simply just a torx. Its at my friends so when I go over to work on it again I will check bt I ordered another drive and am considering buying a Snap on since they are $31 and guarenteed for life.

redline380
02-12-2014, 03:36 PM
What I was worried about is that the previous owner used something cheap and the head bolts had some funky type of socket style or was simply just a torx. Its at my friends so when I go over to work on it again I will check bt I ordered another drive and am considering buying a Snap on since they are $31 and guarenteed for life.


Honestly I think you might want to try the #9 polydrive then. It would be pretty strange, but I have seen some aftermarket bolts had #9 polydrive heads. Would make perfect sense why your #10 polydrive doesn't fit.

zandrew
02-14-2014, 05:17 PM
The confusion grows. I went back today and checked it out and the M10 polydrive I have is too big. I shine a light to look at them and they look to be Torx and not Polydrive. I am seriously starting to wonder what motor I have but it has to 058 block. Right?

I did take a picture which I will post in a bit but has anyone encountered this?

redline I seriously think its a Torx. I actually bought a Tox kit with the long drives to see if it is indeed a Torx. I also bought another Polydrive just to be sure I did not get a junk one.

Seerlah
02-14-2014, 05:34 PM
And the plot thickens...

Curious as to the outcome of this!

redline380
02-14-2014, 05:48 PM
redline I seriously think its a Torx. I actually bought a Tox kit with the long drives to see if it is indeed a Torx. I also bought another Polydrive just to be sure I did not get a junk one.

Many people mistake them for torx. I am not aware of any bolts, aftermarket or stock, that actually are torx. I bet you need a #9 polydrive if they are six point.

redline380
02-14-2014, 06:08 PM
Here is the tool I have, made by Assenmacher Tool Company. This is a #10 polydrive and fits great, but tight.

I have been doing more research and it seems that other people have been confused too. They try to use a t55 but its a bit large. Have you ever actually fit your #10 polydrive tool into a headbolt to ensure it fits for sure?





http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/redline380/temporary_zpse5e6a3d8.jpg

zandrew
02-14-2014, 06:19 PM
I actually do know the difference though LOL. The Polydrive have the teeth cut into the driver shaft and they have slots with sharp almost right angles in them. Torx has points instead of teeth with softer angles.

Here is my new Polydrive which looks a bit different then the other one I tried and a T50 Torx. A T55 Torx is larger then the M10 Polydrive.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z476/miander1/20140214_210907_zpsni8c1xyr.jpg (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/miander1/media/20140214_210907_zpsni8c1xyr.jpg.html)

Here is a photo of the headbolt itself. Note the cam caps in the picture use Torx and they look like the same pattern as the headbolts themself.

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z476/miander1/20140214_173202_zpspz380lrt.jpg (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/miander1/media/20140214_173202_zpspz380lrt.jpg.html)

Whats weird is I bought the Victor Reinz replacements for the AEB and the Polydrive socket I have fits it fine.

redline380
02-14-2014, 06:26 PM
What in the actual fuck is that? That is not a fucking head bolt or I'll eat my shorts.


Look at the holes here. both holes circled should have the same thing in them.




http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/redline380/20140214_173202_zps42ab3c77.jpg

redline380
02-14-2014, 06:28 PM
and anyways, the headbolts are supposed to not shoulder there. they should underneath on the next level of aluminum

Seerlah
02-14-2014, 06:31 PM
haha

Not laughing at you zandrew (I don't show disdain towards other member. well, try not to), but the situation and thread.

zandrew
02-14-2014, 06:57 PM
The flash is on and it did not go down the other head bolt whole. I bought this motor from the Junkyard so I am just trying to break it down and rebuild it but I am obviously stuck at removing the head.

Here is a regular head bolt.

http://www.google.com/imgres?sa=X&biw=1024&bih=644&tbm=isch&tbnid=1z_OwaktfRvMyM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.germanautoparts.com%2FV olkswagen%2FPassat%2FEngine%2F21%2F4&docid=NPx1YVAcEKAAIM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.germanautoparts.com%2Fimag es%2Flarge%2F9c7592655e019b88417392d252dffa7a.jpg&w=400&h=400&ei=7NX-UqfaIYKCyAGs74G4CQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=563&page=3&start=36&ndsp=21&ved=0COcBEK0DMC8

The new Polydrive I have looks slightly different then the other. I am going to "try" and work on it again Sunday.

Has anyone else noticed in post 17 that Redlines sgnature is right below a picture that loos to have a pubic hair in it across the cam? Kind of funny.

redline380
02-14-2014, 08:09 PM
Has anyone else noticed in post 17 that Redlines sgnature is right below a picture that loos to have a pubic hair in it across the cam? Kind of funny.

Funny thing is, that is your picture [>_<]

zandrew
02-15-2014, 02:25 PM
I am going to check the torx out tomorrow and if it does not work I am going to buy a #9 polydrive. I can not think what else it could be and does seem that the some of the aftermarket head bolts are #9.

I am guessing that this motor has been worked on and rebuilt strictly due to these funky headbolts and the gaskets on the intake and exhaust manifolds.

M-Hood
02-15-2014, 02:56 PM
I am going to check the torx out tomorrow and if it does not work I am going to buy a #9 polydrive. I can not think what else it could be and does seem that the some of the aftermarket head bolts are #9.

I am guessing that this motor has been worked on and rebuilt strictly due to these funky headbolts and the gaskets on the intake and exhaust manifolds.

Part number 06A 103 385A is a 1.8t head bolt with a #9 poly drive head, but it is listed as a 10mm head bolt which would be for a 06A block. Are you sure you have a 058 block?

zandrew
02-15-2014, 03:55 PM
Yeah. I actually got some other parts off the car and it was a 98 Passat. The head is big port as well and uses the S pipe style below the intake manifold.

I cant figure it out. I know the aeb head will work on 06 block but I thought all of the accessories are different.

zandrew
02-16-2014, 03:20 PM
The T50 torx fits but it has a bit of wiggle. I think its going to work since all I need to do is remove them. The question I have is if they have ever made M11 head bolt with Polydrive #9? I looked up the polydrive and it says it is used for head bolts on VW makes for 98-03.

M-Hood
02-16-2014, 04:22 PM
The T50 torx fits but it has a bit of wiggle. I think its going to work since all I need to do is remove them. The question I have is if they have ever made M11 head bolt with Polydrive #9? I looked up the polydrive and it says it is used for head bolts on VW makes for 98-03.

I can't seem to find any sites stating what size polydrive is used for the 11mm head bolt with part number 058103385B

zandrew
02-16-2014, 04:44 PM
My victor reinz replacements are polydrive m10. I'm concerned that they will not fit this block though. Is weird situation thats for sure. I'm going try them tomorrow and see whats up. I'll definitely update the thread.

Seerlah
02-16-2014, 04:53 PM
So you got the bolts out and confirmed the thread size?

zandrew
02-16-2014, 06:03 PM
Not yet. I sent the Torx with my buddy where the engine is and had him check it. He said its a bit loose but it grabs. I was going to order a Polydrive #9 if it didn't fit. I am going to give it a go tomorrow and see what happens and go from there.

Is all 058 block M11 head bolts though? I thought they were and I was honestly sure of it. I am wondering if some damn idiot bought regular socket head style bolts and used them?

redline380
02-16-2014, 06:08 PM
058 1.8ts are 11mm bolts, yes. im not sure about 058 2.0 motors, but Id imagine they are too

Seerlah
02-16-2014, 06:09 PM
If the HG was fine then I would say the bolts are the correct ones (well wishings). Pull them out and go from there.

zandrew
02-19-2014, 05:58 AM
I got them out and honestly the head bolts were the least of the issues. Thy were not T50 Torx but it worked good enough to remove them and they are M11. I have to buy pistons and have some spots tended too on the head.

If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck.

M-Hood
02-19-2014, 08:17 AM
I got them out and honestly the head bolts were the least of the issues. Thy were not T50 Torx but it worked good enough to remove them and they are M11. I have to buy pistons and have some spots tended too on the head.

If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck.

So did the rings fail and parts of the rings get forded into the head?

zandrew
02-19-2014, 09:15 AM
Ill post pictures later but essentially what it looks like is that the pistons and the squish area on the head have tiny matching dings as if something had fell into each of the chambers. It appears the previous owner had the head redone and did not redo the pistons.

zandrew
02-20-2014, 09:57 PM
Check em out:

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z476/miander1/20140218_185546_zpst66lwimg.jpg (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/miander1/media/20140218_185546_zpst66lwimg.jpg.html)

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z476/miander1/20140218_185553_zpsek6cmn4n.jpg (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/miander1/media/20140218_185553_zpsek6cmn4n.jpg.html)

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z476/miander1/20140218_185702_zpsxb3yak4d.jpg (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/miander1/media/20140218_185702_zpsxb3yak4d.jpg.html)

http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z476/miander1/20140218_185726_zpskwp5qacz.jpg (http://s1191.photobucket.com/user/miander1/media/20140218_185726_zpskwp5qacz.jpg.html)

All of the pistons and chambers look like this. I was planning just a general rebuild but now I am screwed on that. I will be going with Wiseco 82mm and ceramic coated domes on a stock stroke. Sucks because I am pretty sure my clutch is about to take a shit on me and I have the new clutch which I was hoping to put in when I removed the motor.

M-Hood
02-21-2014, 05:19 AM
Yeah looks just like my old ATW head that came off in 2002 when the rings failed.

zandrew
02-21-2014, 07:43 AM
What gets me is the Rings are fine. My guess is the previous owner had the rings take a shit and they replaced them but disregarded the damage. How did they get every piston to do it? Blows my mind. I'm hoping there is no bottom end damage.

It looks like just the block and had are usable.