Control arm question.

[kelz27]

I dropped my car 2inches all around. Is adjustable control arms a must?

[aluthman]

Definitely a good idea, but not technically needed. You may see increased/uneven wear on your tires though.

[Der Konig]

034 makes a good set. I am dropped by around that much and I don't run them but was unable to get my alignment all the way dialed in. I am actually going to install some when it warms up a bit, definitely worth it IMO. You will typically get too much negative camber (AW LAWDY IS THERE SUCH A THING HERE?), which results in accelerated inner tire wear and can cause the car to feel "darty" or unsettled over bumps. Kind of like bump steer but very minor.

[aluthman]

034 makes a good set. I am dropped by around that much and I don't run them but was unable to get my alignment all the way dialed in. I am actually going to install some when it warms up a bit, definitely worth it IMO. You will typically get too much negative camber (AW LAWDY IS THERE SUCH A THING HERE?), which results in accelerated inner tire wear and can cause the car to feel "darty" or unsettled over bumps. Kind of like bump steer but very minor.

I've got the 034 adjustable upper control arms and have no complaints. I'm not terribly low, but I wanted to prevent unnecessary wear on my tires.

[Mike@PureMS]

At that height it isn't required, but if your arms have over 100k it's probably worth investing in some new arms. Worn bushings won't hold the alignment as well and will cause the tires to wear faster. Check out our Stern arms, they a great upgrade to allow you to adjust the camber and caster for better handling.

Stern Adjustables (http://www.purems.com/Products/ST-CAKIT01Stern-Adjustable-Upper-Control-Arm-Kit)

[Der Konig]

At that height it isn't required, but if your arms have over 100k it's probably worth investing in some new arms. Worn bushings won't hold the alignment as well and will cause the tires to wear faster. Check out our Stern arms, they a great upgrade to allow you to adjust the camber and caster for better handling.

Stern Adjustables (http://www.purems.com/Products/ST-CAKIT01Stern-Adjustable-Upper-Control-Arm-Kit)

Hey Mike, was actually looking at these recently. Deciding between these and 034 ones, any major differences to point out and if/when you guys might run a promo on them?

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

Hey Mike, was actually looking at these recently. Deciding between these and 034 ones, any major differences to point out and if/when you guys might run a promo on them?

Why not Moog's adjustable UCA (rebranded SPCs)? I bought a set back around Christmas for $95 a set from RockAuto. Now they're up to $103 a set which is still a STEAL lol

Discussion:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/549450-Moog-adjustable-upper-control-arms

[Der Konig]

part not found and unavailable on amazon [mad] thread jack

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

They'll become available, just give them some time. I went to order one day and they weren't available and just gave it a couple of days and they were back in stock. Save yourself $200+.

[Der Konig]

Thanks for the heads up, put them on auto notify when back in stock. Gimme gimme

[Solarsuplex]

You do not need control arms unless you cannot get your toe aligned to spec. and remember that the more camber you have the closer you want your toe to be set to zero. Have a read on alignments and the geometry of our suspension and you will be able to answer the question for yourself.

[null]

i have same issue. firestone says it can't align my car 100% cause of camber. Do I get these moog arms? People claim it helps?
How much is install for upper control arms? Anybody knows?

[teckk]

Soo heres a quick question I'm getting bags next week and these control arms seem like a really good price but id rather not have to put a notch in my new strut towers so is there any possible way or another set of uca that are available that won't require any trimming ?

[West.point1]

Agh can't wait less than week till these are installed :) just hope it warms up seens how it snowed here the other day!
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/image360.jpg

[teckk]

Agh can't wait less than week till these are installed :) just hope it warms up seens how it snowed here the other day!
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/image360.jpg

Super random lol but before you install those order a set of 034 street density strut mounts for the front, i have those currently and trust me you'll need them plus it makes the car feel so much better performance wise and ride wise if you do. What control arms are those & how much did they run btw ?

[leftovers]

I called Moog directly a couple of weeks ago and they said the control arms are on national back order until April. Advance Auto has a rebate going with them. I was hoping to have them price match and then stack the rebate, which they were willing to do, IF they had them in stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aluthman]

Soo heres a quick question I'm getting bags next week and these control arms seem like a really good price but id rather not have to put a notch in my new strut towers so is there any possible way or another set of uca that are available that won't require any trimming ?

I have the 034 adjustable uppers and I had to do zero trimming/grinding.

[xander3zero]

I have the 034 adjustable uppers and I had to do zero trimming/grinding.

Do you just have their density line adjustables or the fully spherical ones? I'm seeing that the fully spherical look more like track oriented UCAs but just curious

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[West.point1]

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/image360.jpg
They are stern control arms why would I need strut mounts ?

[CorneliusRox]

I was running the Moog ones for $240 and they were great! No issues. I did have to trim the upper strut brace to let the arms go up further, but that was easy.

[teckk]

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/image360.jpg
They are stern control arms why would I need strut mounts ?

The koni's in my opinion feel really mushy and not as connected to the car w/o them , the strut mounts really help to tighten up your steering feel from the new suspension. They dont cost more than $60 but theyre well worth it

[mcpcartier]

i just put in the moog (was going to add a pic on the grinding required but imageshack is asking for $ now....will make a photobucket account shortly) and the front end feels very tight. I re-used the oem strut pad (mount) and I'm good. I did change the lower arms, tie rods, and shocks at the same time so I went from a bunch of worn out parts to heaven. I can't imagine the strut mounts would make much of a difference, but maybe mine are fine. They looked/felt brand new.

[fly300kts]

Agh can't wait less than week till these are installed :) just hope it warms up seens how it snowed here the other day!
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/image360.jpg

Bad, really bad choice, referring to the control arms

Phil

[West.point1]

Bad arms or bad drivers/ not proper set up ? Seems like they are track proven?

[West.point1]

I have the Stern and I love them, worth EVERY penny!!
Easy install (you just need to remove your shock/coil) and they come pre-adjusted, well close enough to drive to get an alignment

If you a low and save on tires, it's a no brainer

Phil
Lol your words as of 10-13-2010 06:26 PM are you saying they are bad cause Europa doesn't sell stern?

[teckk]

i just put in the moog (was going to add a pic on the grinding required but imageshack is asking for $ now....will make a photobucket account shortly) and the front end feels very tight. I re-used the oem strut pad (mount) and I'm good. I did change the lower arms, tie rods, and shocks at the same time so I went from a bunch of worn out parts to heaven. I can't imagine the strut mounts would make much of a difference, but maybe mine are fine. They looked/felt brand new.

The best way to describe it is basically its like buying a new pair of shoes or sneakers after you've been wearing the same pair for over 5 months and its slowly starting to wear down. You throw on the old pair everyday an your just like meh whatever but when you put on the new pair you get that really comfortable and refreshing feeling that makes you wonder why you didn't do it sooner haha

[fly300kts]

Lol your words as of 10-13-2010 06:26 PM are you saying they are bad cause Europa doesn't sell stern?

LOL but search my post few months later, that's what is important!!
Good luck

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/fly300kts/null_zps01fe03ba.jpg (http://s31.photobucket.com/user/fly300kts/media/null_zps01fe03ba.jpg.html)

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/fly300kts/null_zpsf486b13d.jpg (http://s31.photobucket.com/user/fly300kts/media/null_zpsf486b13d.jpg.html)

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/fly300kts/null_zps6fc20c6b.jpg (http://s31.photobucket.com/user/fly300kts/media/null_zps6fc20c6b.jpg.html)

Phil

[West.point1]

I bet it had to do with how you had your set up. They would not be selling/ have this design still if it was flawed like that. Not to mention at least I didn't have to buy arms and purposely cut and grind sheet metal to make them fit lol. There's a design flaw! But hey maybe that's why they are cheaper than the stern.
Just my opinion...

[aluthman]

Do you just have their density line adjustables or the fully spherical ones? I'm seeing that the fully spherical look more like track oriented UCAs but just curious

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Density line

[aluthman]

I bet it had to do with how you had your set up. They would not be selling/ have this design still if it was flawed like that. Not to mention at least I didn't have to buy arms and purposely cut and grind sheet metal to make them fit lol. There's a design flaw! But hey maybe that's why they are cheaper than the stern.
Just my opinion...

I highly doubt it. I'd blame it on the lack of dust boots. Crap gets into the joint and speeds wear on the joint tremendously.

[fly300kts]

I bet it had to do with how you had your set up. They would not be selling/ have this design still if it was flawed like that. Not to mention at least I didn't have to buy arms and purposely cut and grind sheet metal to make them fit lol. There's a design flaw! But hey maybe that's why they are cheaper than the stern.
Just my opinion...

What are you talking about, my setup LOL [headbang][facepalm]
The pictures are showing the Stern control arms after a year: premature failure of the ball bearing, contacts with lower legs grinding the arms.
Be ready to have now clucking noise when you steer to max deflection, etc.
Stern does not offer spare parts to repair.
I will stop here

Again, good luck

Phil

[Mike@PureMS]

Refresh kits are all in stock and available here (http://www.purems.com/Products/ST-CAKIT02Stern-Adj-Control-Arm-Refresh-Kit)
If you need additional parts like adjusters, or other parts we have everything available just give us a call.

[West.point1]

Custom outer ball joints feature Teflon linings and are sealed to provide years of maintenance free operation. Replaceable bushings and serviceable ball joints will make these the last arms you'll ever need!

if they say the provide years of maintenance free and they fail then they should be covered under warrenty
and i have been searching and searching about stern control arms being bad and phil and one other guy are the only 2 ppl i have found so far that actually had problems with them.
All i know is i've heard hundreds of people using them.

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

I value Phil's opinion. If he says they are junk, then they are probably junk. And he's posted so many DIYs for this forum I'm pretty sure he knows how to install just about anything properly lol

+1bajillion for Phil [up]

[Hugh@EuropaParts]

I value Phil's opinion. If he says they are junk, then they are probably junk. And he's posted so many DIYs for this forum I'm pretty sure he knows how to install just about anything properly lol

+1bajillion for Phil [up]

Phil is my hero...

He also flies planes...

[West.point1]

Just emailed stern and asked about this subject

The spherical bearing stud and rubber bushing come with a 1 year warranty
against defects. The machined and turned metal components feature a
lifetime structural warranty against defects and failures.

New control arms should not make any noises. As the spherical bearings
break in and wear, they may make some very subtle clicking noises which is
normal. They are an all metal spherical bearing and offer the highest
performance available. We have rarely had anyone complain about the noises
being too loud, except on parts that are old and worn. The mere presence of
some noise from them will be considered normal, unless there is physical
play in the ball joint studs. We've seen these easily lasting over 30k in
most cases.

Our arms were used successfully by APR on their Continental Tire raced B8S4
for 2 years with great results.

We're confident you'll have great results with our product. They've been
out for over 7years, and we have well over 1500 kits sold worldwide.

[Inked]

I value Phil's opinion. If he says they are junk, then they are probably junk. And he's posted so many DIYs for this forum I'm pretty sure he knows how to install just about anything properly lol

+1bajillion for Phil [up]

LMAO, I feel the same. Theres a reason why I dont have a Bentley Manual(i just text Phil) LMAO

[fly300kts]

if they say the provide years of maintenance free and they fail then they should be covered under warrenty
and i have been searching and searching about stern control arms being bad and phil and one other guy are the only 2 ppl i have found so far that actually had problems with them.
All i know is i've heard hundreds of people using them.


Yeah right, tried this road and again, this case is close and do not want to get back to it.
Now, Mr West Point active member one ring, you need to listen to what I am trying to explain here:
You bought the arms, you are going to install them, all good.

My initial post was a warning to you that premature failures have been reported and since you leave in the leaf country, with all the snow, salt, sand, etc you get there, you might see the same issue.
Before you start a new post in couple months like: " URGENT - HELP ME - NOISE WHEN TURNING THE WHEEL OR DRIVING ON SMALL BUMPS" just jack the car up and take a look at the control arms.

That's all
Drive safe

Phil

[mcpcartier]

Yeah right, tried this road and again, this case is close and do not want to get back to it.
Now, Mr West Point active member one ring, you need to listen to what I am trying to explain here:
You bought the arms, you are going to install them, all good.

My initial post was a warning to you that premature failures have been reported and since you leave in the leaf country, with all the snow, salt, sand, etc you get there, you might see the same issue.
Before you start a new post in couple months like: " URGENT - HELP ME - NOISE WHEN TURNING THE WHEEL OR DRIVING ON SMALL BUMPS" just jack the car up and take a look at the control arms.

That's all
Drive safe

Phil

One ringer challenging a veteran member offering advice .....doh!

At the minimum he could be polite with his desire to ignore it....just be courteous and move on. You're going to need the support of the community members at some point, this isn't the way to play in the AZ forums (at least the B7 world).

[mcpcartier]

LOL but search my post few months later, that's what is important!!
Good luck

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/fly300kts/null_zpsf486b13d.jpg (http://s31.photobucket.com/user/fly300kts/media/null_zpsf486b13d.jpg.html)

Phil

Phil,

did you hear clunking? Did this happen right away or after they broke in and developed more range of motion? What made you look at them after a year?

Just put in the moogs (similar design) and haven't heard a single noise from the front end yet. Just in love with how the suspension/steering feels. Based on your pics I'll be keeping an eye on things. Will do a visual inspection each time I rotate the tires to see if there are any contact points.

Also, hugh says he has refresh parts for the stern's.....did those become available after you asked? Or were you looking for parts they're not offering? If the moogs stay at their current pricing I'll just buy new each time (about the same price, if not cheaper, than the refresh kit). This would save me down time.

So far so good.....and and awesome results on my alignment.

[fly300kts]

Control arms are definitively a must as soon as you lower the car, in my opinion since I don't have a buddy to discount my tires
Problem started after 6 months: random loud clunk at full steering deflection on one side, then couple months later on both sides, then later on speed bumps.
Finally jacked the car and as you can see on the pictures, arms were contacting the lower leg all over the places.
As far as repair/warranty coverage/spare parts, let me keep my answer politically correct: NO on all counts and yes, I spoke with the right persons.

I switched to 034 arms and no more issues

Phi

[West.point1]

hey phil,
im not trying to argue with you i just dont understand how a company like that can sell over 1500 products and only have maybe half a dozen complain about this problem.
I just made a phone call to pg perfomance where i purchased them from and i asked if they would warranty them if this happens to me, only cause stern will not cover it. He said he will ask the boss and see what he has to say about this. You really have me worried now lol. He did mention a possible refund/exchange cause i have not used mine yet they have just sat here so i may in fact exchange them for the 034 so i dont have to worry at all. Now with the 034 did you have to cut and grind like the SPC ones require?

oh and about the whole canada thing, i live close to vancouver which is on the west coast also known as The WET Coast, we rarely get snow here lol
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ob1l5ugRS7Y/Uw5atlBzVMI/AAAAAAAAYMQ/J_YwISbK_PY/s1600/canadian.jpg

lol just jokes

[fly300kts]

I know well Vancouver, I visit often a Customer based in Richmond, BC. Great Indian restaurant too.
No issues with 034 setup
Phil

[CorneliusRox]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ob1l5ugRS7Y/Uw5atlBzVMI/AAAAAAAAYMQ/J_YwISbK_PY/s1600/canadian.jpg

This just took this thread from interesting to pissing me off...

[West.point1]

Phil,
Just got off the phone with the boss man at pg performance he is going to be contacting stern to see if I will be covered. He also brought up the point about the 034 being semi open allowing water into the top part of the bearing where as the stern are sealed on the top. He personally has never had one come back with problems and he has sold to us and Canadian citizens so I will get back to you tomorrow with the results :) it's funny I guess he talked to someone at 034 and they actually have stern in his own personal car

[mcpcartier]

This just took this thread from interesting to pissing me off...

This bugs me as well. And that's coming from someone who has 4 team canada jersey's in the house and a budwieser goal light programmed to go off every time team canada scores.