B7 A4 transmission woes update

[DIYA6 A4]

OK, folks, we’ve been driving the car for over a week since I installed the new N80 valve, but so far apart from a little more pep and a slight softening of the severity of the shifting – especially from 3rd to 2nd, no appreciable improvement overall. The most solid thunk occurs between 4th and 5th, but there can also be quite a jolt from 4th to 3rd, and occasionally 3rd to 2nd. Shifting gets a little smoother once the engine warms up. Whether or not it’s related, I’ve noticed some wavering rpms – especially when the car is cold – at about 60 km/hr, for example. I’ve done a little research on this gearbox – the one fitted to our 2007 A4 is a 09L with the supplier code ZF 6HP19A and model no. AL420-6Q. According to some sites I’ve consulted, the N89 solenoid can cause problems in this transmission, e.g.: http://www.ehow.com/about_5594602_vw-tiptronic-transmission-problems.html. Fly300kts in an excellent post on DIY changing the transmission fluid and filter (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/414061-B7-A4-Tiptronic-ATF-Replacement) mentions ‘kicking’, which he defines as shifting pretty hard along with some rpm fluctuation, as the main reason for doing the fluid/filter job. Someone else talks about some of these symptoms springing from low fluid and recommends topping it up to bring things back to normal. I’m not aware that our A4 has any leaks – I do the oil changes and am confident I’d have noticed if that were so. The hard shifts we’ve experienced might be described as ‘kicking’, so maybe a fluid and filter change will resolve this issue. What puzzles me is that the car has just 81K kms (just over 50K miles) on it; this seems way too early to be exhibiting this kind of transmission problem. But maybe not. Has anyone else had this experience? I inherited my father’s 1988 Nissan Maxima back in 1994 and as far I know it still is running without any transmission issues.

I’ve VAG-COMed the TCM, but no faults showed up. I also tried to reset the TCM to ‘Basic Settings’, to see if the factory shift settings would have any effect. But from what I’ve been able to determine so far, this TCM won’t allow the VAG-COM to access to the ‘Basic Settings’ option. I’ve performed the Throttle Body Adjustment.

FWIW I read that the solenoids and TC are covered up to 100,000 miles in the USA, but not in Canada. I guess unless anyone has a suggestion for an alternative I’ll be taking the car to a local indy for a look into the gearbox. I’ll be bracing myself for the likelihood of a fluid and filter job. I’d probably do it myself if it were warmer outside, but below freezing temps don’t make that particularly appealing. In researching this tranny problem, I’ve come across a lot of posts relating to owners getting fleeced by various outfits for unnecessary work and repairs. The possibility of faulty solenoids is a little unsettling – I suspect that this would add substantially to the repair cost. If anyone out there has any experience of these issues, comments or suggestions welcome. Cheers,

Paul

[Cantalk]

I think you may have a bum TC. Mine was doing the exact same thing.

[Charles.waite]

X2 on a bad TC. My old B7 had hard shifting and it smoothed out some when the tranny fluid warmed up. I would try a tranny fluid/filter change and if that doesn't help, you're likely looking at a Torque Converter replacement, possibly a valve body replacement...

[DIYA6 A4]

Ouch, ouch, ouch!!! Sounds like a molto expensive proposition -- I was hoping for something less pricey. I guess I'll check with my indie about possible costs for fluid/filter change and TC. What a misery that the 100 K extended TC warranty doesn't apply to Canada. But thanks for the advice and suggestions.

[Charles.waite]

Ouch, ouch, ouch!!! Sounds like a molto expensive proposition -- I was hoping for something less pricey. I guess I'll check with my indie about possible costs for fluid/filter change and TC. What a misery that the 100 K extended TC warranty doesn't apply to Canada. But thanks for the advice and suggestions.

What's this 100k thing you're talking about?

As far as I know there is nothing for the tiptronic tranny. There was the class action for the cvt tranny but that's obviously not the 09L/6hp19 tranny.

[DIYA6 A4]

I came across some web sites referring to a 100,000 mile warranty extension on VWs and Audis fitted with the ZF 6HP19A gearbox. Here are a couple:
http://etereman.com/blog/automatic-transmission-2/here-are-two-problems-common-found-with-the-6hp19-transmission/
http://www.prlog.org/11758814-zf-6hp19-6hp28-transmission-failures-due-to-bad-valve-body-and-computer-programming-information.html
Cheers,

Paul

[B72011]

Do the fluid deal ....rent a heated garage if you have to. If not, I'd swap the trans with a used unit from wwww.car-part.com. I'd say thats the best, cheapest way to get out if it. Otherwise you start replacing valve bodies and TC's..then what ...clutch packs? Sounds like big $$$. It's F@cking ridiculous that Audi doesn't bother to repair these things suggesting only to go the easy route ( for them ) and have you pony up with a 7k new trans. Who REALLY understands and knows how and what to diagnose on these trans issues? I mean if you have bouncing rpms and or a TC fault code...sure....but otherwise it seems it all might be a goose chase of $$.





I came across some web sites referring to a 100,000 mile warranty extension on VWs and Audis fitted with the ZF 6HP19A gearbox. Here are a couple:
http://etereman.com/blog/automatic-transmission-2/here-are-two-problems-common-found-with-the-6hp19-transmission/
http://www.prlog.org/11758814-zf-6hp19-6hp28-transmission-failures-due-to-bad-valve-body-and-computer-programming-information.html
Cheers,

Paul

[DIYA6 A4]

OK, everyone, thanks for the advice and thoughts about the cause of our tranny issues. I'll investigate the fluid/filter route and keep my fingers crossed that they go away.

Cheers,

Paul

[Charles.waite]

I came across some web sites referring to a 100,000 mile warranty extension on VWs and Audis fitted with the ZF 6HP19A gearbox. Here are a couple:
http://etereman.com/blog/automatic-transmission-2/here-are-two-problems-common-found-with-the-6hp19-transmission/
http://www.prlog.org/11758814-zf-6hp19-6hp28-transmission-failures-due-to-bad-valve-body-and-computer-programming-information.html
Cheers,

Paul

Those aren't from Audi. Just some lawyers or repair shops trying to get your money...

[DIYA6 A4]

Hmm, interesting. There were some others that also mentioned the TC, but presumably for the same reason.

And Happy New Year to all.

Cheers,

Paul

[QuattroS.Africa]

Hey there. Looks like we're both sitting in a similar situation with this. Look forward to seeing what your solution was. And I'll keep you posted on any progress I make.

Good luck

[DIYA6 A4]

I contacted an indie transmission shop -- about a half-hour drive away -- that claims to specialize in German gearboxes (among others) and took the A4 in for a look. When we went out for a test drive the mechanic noted that some of the rough, clunky shifts took place in the lower gears -- 1st to 2nd, for example -- as well as in the previously mentioned 4th to 3rd and 4th to 5th. On this basis the senior guy back at the shop claimed that this likely indicated that the torque converter was not the source of the problem since it didn't come into play until the higher gear ranges. Later, I had a conversation with the shop owner who seemed to feel and a fluid/filter change would be pointless (it's possible that this was just a deterrent tactic -- not worth the bother for his outfit): basically, if any change in performance resulted, it would be short-lived. He speculated that the valve body was the likeliest cause and that as an exclusive Audi/VW assembly, it would require a $2100 replacement unit plus whatever substantial labour costs might be incurred. Our local indie shop is closed till 19 Jan., so I'm planning on taking the car into him when he re-opens. I'll need to try to get some kind of diagnosis of the problem and proceed from there. In the meantime, on the advice of B72011 I've located a used transmission in case the cost of resolving the issues with ours prove ridiculously costly. Cheers.

[B72011]

Cheers and I don't think you can go too wrong with a used low miles unit. You might also contact ZF either in Canada and or the US about a new valve body.....surely they have em avail for less than 2k. There are DiY's that don't look too crazy for the valve body.....some places here in the states will rebuild em. On the VB I think you just drain the fluid in the trans pan, unbolt it, unplug the VB and then unbolt the unit and it comes right out. Reinstall pan and do fluid refill. You can use a cheap fluid thermometer to watch temps from what I've read ...not an absolute need to use a Vag.com tool. Good luck any way ya go and keep us informed of the progress.

[DIYA6 A4]

Excellent -- thanks, B72011: all good to know. I'll look into your ZF suggestion. Just for comparison's sake, the local Audi dealer quoted $708 for an ATF fluid and filter change, $2986 for a valve body replacement, $3365 for TC replacement, and $920 for replacing the tranny plus the cost of a used unit -- all prices plus 13% tax. I'll report back on the next stage after I've met with our local guy. Cheers.

[papadelogan]

$708 + 13% tax for a trans fluid & filter change??!!! That's insane!! The transmission in my truck takes 5 GALLONS (yes, 20 U.S quarts or 19 litres) of fluid. I put in fully synthetic ($250 for fluid alone) and a new filter ($40). I'm sure the filter is more, but there's no way your parts cost should be near $300. I'd either 1) find a friend/associate/coworker with a heated garage and offer them pizza/dinner/$20 for the 'rental' of their garage, or 2) rent anything else and a heater & do it myself.

Best of luck to you in getting this sorted.

[doughboy17]

$708 + 13% tax for a trans fluid & filter change??!!! That's insane!! The transmission in my truck takes 5 GALLONS (yes, 20 U.S quarts or 19 litres) of fluid. I put in fully synthetic ($250 for fluid alone) and a new filter ($40). I'm sure the filter is more, but there's no way your parts cost should be near $300. I'd either 1) find a friend/associate/coworker with a heated garage and offer them pizza/dinner/$20 for the 'rental' of their garage, or 2) rent anything else and a heater & do it myself.

Best of luck to you in getting this sorted.

The tranny fluid is priced like liquid gold. Unfortunately, $708 is about the going rate.

[papadelogan]

The tranny fluid is priced like liquid gold. Unfortunately, $708 is about the going rate.

That is beyond outrageous, even for Audi.

[Charles.waite]

That is beyond outrageous, even for Audi.

Thank ZF for that, not Audi. Every car with the 6hp19 tranny (Some BMWs, other Audis, a porsche or two) all have to swallow the costs of that damn fluid.

ZF finally sells the fluid direct for a small break in price ($35/l rather than $50/l) but its still ridiculously exorbitant.

Think about it this way, if it lasts 100K, $800 every 100k for a tranny fluid drain/fill really isn't that bad at all. Hell even, every 50k its not terrible. Its still a large bill for what it is though...