View Full Version : Alu Kreutz Installation
JJDubya
09-14-2013, 09:32 AM
The installation instructions indicate "Raise vehicle using an automotive lift or jack stands (do not use ramps). The wheels of the vehicle must not have any weight on them during installation or damage to the sub- frame may occur." I will use jackstands. Two questions:
1. I presume this includes the rear wheels to ensure no load on subframe. But, can the install be done by just lifting the front?
2. Does anyone know if it matters where the stands go? Do they have to be at the factory lift points? Or, can one use the LCA-to-frame mounts for the front stands?
SwankPeRFection
09-14-2013, 09:36 AM
Put the stands at the jack points. If you don't have room because of the floor jack you're using, use an OEM crank one. You will have room to wedge the stands in place right next to the jack if you do it right.
drob23
09-14-2013, 09:38 AM
The subframe connects the lower control arms, so no need to jack up the rear wheels.
The jack points have been a source of multiple discussions here on the zine, but I've never found a great solution to jack up and then fit stands in there. The hockey puck approach hasn't worked well for me, and I've stupidly broken some of the plastic covering the pinch weld. I'd search here for the thread about jackpoints and the B8 chassis.
SteveYem
09-14-2013, 09:52 AM
Put the stands at the jack points. If you don't have room because of the floor jack you're using, use an OEM crank one. You will have room to wedge the stands in place right next to the jack if you do it right.
I agree, in fact I just did this last week with mine to jack up the front end. Position the OEM crank/scissor type jack so that the jacking point is right up against where the plastic trim resumes, toward the rear of the factory front jacking area (get under the car and see it for yourself....my description is terrible). With the factory jack in this location, you will have enough room to get a standard jack stand positioned next to it and supporting the car within the designated factory jacking area.
JJDubya
09-14-2013, 10:39 AM
The subframe connects the lower control arms, so no need to jack up the rear wheels.
You seem quite confident, but I'm not sure I follow your logic. Are you talking about the rear LCAs?... and saying that since the subframe is connected to the LCAs, it doesn't matter if you jack up the rear wheels or not?
Can anyone confirm?
JJDubya
09-14-2013, 10:41 AM
I agree, in fact I just did this last week with mine to jack up the front end. Position the OEM crank/scissor type jack so that the jacking point is right up against where the plastic trim resumes, toward the rear of the factory front jacking area (get under the car and see it for yourself....my description is terrible). With the factory jack in this location, you will have enough room to get a standard jack stand positioned next to it and supporting the car within the designated factory jacking area.
Your description is fine... I understand what you are trying to say. I just hate using the OE jack for anything other than emergency use on the road. It is very unstable, especially when the chassis is loaded oddly by having other wheels off the ground. I may give it a shot, though. If I have confidence I don't need to lift the rear, I'll feel better about trying the OE jack (aka "the widow maker").
FatalBert
09-14-2013, 10:58 AM
Your description is fine... I understand what you are trying to say. I just hate using the OE jack for anything other than emergency use on the road. It is very unstable, especially when the chassis is loaded oddly by having other wheels off the ground. I may give it a shot, though. If I have confidence I don't need to lift the rear, I'll feel better about trying the OE jack (aka "the widow maker").
I have a hard time sometimes getting the jack stands on the jack points as well because the jack is always in the way. just try your best to place the jack as far up front of the car on the jack point and put the jack stands on the rear side of the jack point. It will be tight, but you should be able to pull it off. Also as secondary measures I would put the OEM jack next to the jack stands as well for secondary support and the same with your jack on the other side just for safety.
JJDubya
09-14-2013, 11:37 AM
I'm looking to find out what is right to do the AK install... not necessarily a thread on how to jack up the car and support with jack stands. I've done that dozens of times. I just want to know the right way to support the car for AK install (i.e., ok to leave weight on rear wheels... ok to use LCA to support or have to use factory lift points?)
drob23
09-14-2013, 11:40 AM
You seem quite confident, but I'm not sure I follow your logic. Are you talking about the rear LCAs?... and saying that since the subframe is connected to the LCAs, it doesn't matter if you jack up the rear wheels or not?
Can anyone confirm?
The front ones
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/10/rupyjupe.jpg
spl1011
09-14-2013, 11:54 AM
I tried using a pair of scissor jacks (I don't own jackstands) but aborted the mission because I really didn't trust the stability of it.
I asked a neighbor to use the lift in his garage (he's a mechanic) to do the install. Obviously, it was much easier (more room) to get around, but the cheater-bar cranking to get one or two of the bolts off jostled the car enough that I was very glad to be doing it on a proper lift and not on two scissor jacks. If it has be done at home, jackstands are a must.
I used the OEM jack with jack stands (hockey puck method), and left both rear wheels on the ground. I would never climb underneath without stands.
Unfortunately the OEM jack didn't go high enough for me to have much room under the car. I'm 6'1 240lbs and was very uncomfortable when I was underneath. I probably wouldn't do the install again.
SwankPeRFection
09-14-2013, 01:25 PM
Your description is fine... I understand what you are trying to say. I just hate using the OE jack for anything other than emergency use on the road. It is very unstable, especially when the chassis is loaded oddly by having other wheels off the ground. I may give it a shot, though. If I have confidence I don't need to lift the rear, I'll feel better about trying the OE jack (aka "the widow maker").
You ALWAYS are supposed to pull the e-brake when you jack up the front. If you're not doing that (OEM jack or not), you're just asking for issues. If you properly keep the car from rolling by doing this, it's stable up to the level you need to put the stands in place. I haven't had any issues with either the A4 or S4 and I've been doing it for years, even on previous cars. Pull the damn e-brake!
SwankPeRFection
09-14-2013, 01:28 PM
I'm looking to find out what is right to do the AK install... not necessarily a thread on how to jack up the car and support with jack stands. I've done that dozens of times. I just want to know the right way to support the car for AK install (i.e., ok to leave weight on rear wheels... ok to use LCA to support or have to use factory lift points?)
Look dude, we told you where to jack and where to put your stands on. That's what you asked. If you're going to fire back with this bs, how about you call EC and have them give you a similar response? Get under the car and take a look. You will see which points of drivetrain and suspension connect or are connected to the areas that the AK engages on.
JJDubya
09-14-2013, 08:44 PM
Look dude, we told you where to jack and where to put your stands on. That's what you asked. If you're going to fire back with this bs, how about you call EC and have them give you a similar response? Get under the car and take a look. You will see which points of drivetrain and suspension connect or are connected to the areas that the AK engages on.
Look, dude... EC doesn't answer the phones on Saturday. That's what the forums are for: discussion. If you don't like my discussion, go post in your own thread.
And, the jack points under a B8 S4 were not what I asked for. Read my thread again. I asked if the rear wheels could be left on the ground for an AK install. The EC instructions are not clear. And, neither was the one response I got on the topic. Indeed, the EC instructions suggest "damage to the subframe could occur". I'll be as cautious as I want with my $60K+ car.
So, don't lecture me on how to jack up a car. Pull the ebrake? Gee, Einstein, thanks for the tip. When you have an OE scissor jack tip on you, be sure to take a picture so you can come back and share with the rest of us.
You have been on AZ for just about a month and rarely have anything constructive to add to anyone's threads except your ego.
SwankPeRFection
09-14-2013, 08:52 PM
Oh really?! Look at your second question. You asked where to put the jack stands genius. We told you what you should do to jack up the car and put stands if you wanted the same level of proper support that a lift can provide. The reason we went into detail and told you how to jack up the car with the OEM jack is so that you could put your stands in the proper places... which is what you asked for.
Maybe you should try to remember what you wrote/asked for before you act all high and mighty... which I might add you shot everyone down with the #8 post which again asked for the same thing we've been telling you all along. [rolleyes]
The installation instructions indicate "Raise vehicle using an automotive lift or jack stands (do not use ramps). The wheels of the vehicle must not have any weight on them during installation or damage to the sub- frame may occur." I will use jackstands. Two questions:
1. I presume this includes the rear wheels to ensure no load on subframe. But, can the install be done by just lifting the front?
2. Does anyone know if it matters where the stands go? Do they have to be at the factory lift points? Or, can one use the LCA-to-frame mounts for the front stands?
SwankPeRFection
09-14-2013, 08:56 PM
Look, dude... EC doesn't answer the phones on Saturday. That's what the forums are for: discussion. If you don't like my discussion, go post in your own thread.
And, the jack points under a B8 S4 were not what I asked for. Read my thread again. I asked if the rear wheels could be left on the ground for an AK install. The EC instructions are not clear. And, neither was the one response I got on the topic. Indeed, the EC instructions suggest "damage to the subframe could occur". I'll be as cautious as I want with my $60K+ car.
So, don't lecture me on how to jack up a car. Pull the ebrake? Gee, Einstein, thanks for the tip. When you have an OE scissor jack tip on you, be sure to take a picture so you can come back and share with the rest of us.
You have been on AZ for just about a month and rarely have anything constructive to add to anyone's threads except your ego.
And I don't think anyone said to leave it on the scissor jack you dumbass! We told you to use the scissor jack so that you can get enough clearance to put your stand right next to it at the factory jack points!!! That was the point behind all that info, but you went right past it and the light didn't go off. And for the record, I've not had a scissor jack ever tip on me because I don't leave a car on it or I make sure the car cannot move enough to have that happen should I need to leave it on the jack (for instances when changing a tire real quick). There are precautions you take... pull the e-brake which mimics chocking the wheels, put it in gear if manual if you have to jack up the back side, etc. You also don't ever loosen or tighten the lugs with the car up, but I'm going to guess you already knew all that since you're so smart you had to start this thread.