Used 2010 S4 - Offer Review

[coverdrive]

Hey guys -

So my local audi dealership just got a 2010 s4 traded in. It was a lease vehicle.

Here are the specs:

36000k
Premium +
Ibis White
Black Interior w/Carbon Inlays
B&O Sound
Silk Nappa Seats
Sports Rear Diff
Nav w/camera

The dealer is saying it is CPO. Original Warranty is still active,will expire in 05/2014.

Internet listed price is $38,986.

KBB Trade-in Value for Very Good is $30,500 and Excellent is $31,166. Edmunds TMV is $31,500.


What price should I aim for? Also should the dealer be able to provide me complete service record / carfax / what things were fixed/checked during CPO process?

[coverdrive]

Also what interest rates can i expect from the dealer for a CPO vehicle?

Should i ask about Audi Care or is that not worth it considering the mileage?

[Dr GP]

First of all , I hope you don't think you can buy the car for the Edmonds TRADE IN Price. Dealer just gave me $31.5 K for my 2010 30k miles trade in No nav and no B&O. These cars have been holding their value and it costs the dealer an additional $2k to have the car CPo'd. I would think that $36-$37K might get you the car, but who knows until you try. I believe CPO financing is around 1-2%

[isles1]

If anything, inquire about AudiCare Plus (because of the mileage). AudiCare only gets you to 45K miles. Make sure the DSG fluid service was done at 35K miles as recommended.

[coverdrive]

First of all , I hope you don't think you can buy the car for the Edmonds TRADE IN Price. Dealer just gave me $31.5 K for my 2010 30k miles trade in No nav and no B&O. These cars have been holding their value and it costs the dealer an additional $2k to have the car CPo'd. I would think that $36-$37K might get you the car, but who knows until you try. I believe CPO financing is around 1-2%

I am not expecting trade in as the selling price. But possibly 2k more than the trade-in because the dealer probably had the vehicle traded in for less then the KBB/edmunds trade-in value and did some work on top of it. I think 36/37k is too much for a 2010 36k miles.

[chillindrdude]

Mine was $36500 from private seller, excellent (near showroom) condition.

Quartz gray
Premium plus
ADS lite
Sport diff
Napa leather, aluminum inlays
MMI with nav
Backup sensor and camera
18" oem wheels
AWE exhaust (stock exhaust also included)
LED interior and rear plate lights
Euro-type (aspherical? Reduces blind spot greatly) mirrors
24000 miles
Remainder of audicare march 2014

I thought the price was fair tho at the upper limit. My budget was to stay below $40k.

This was a private sale.

[BAHNSTORMER]

FYI, I I offered $39K on a CPO 2011 S4 with similar mileage/options as the one you're looking at and the dealer wouldn't budge off his listed internet price of $41.7K.


EDIT: S4, not S5

[isles1]

OP: Offer $35.5K with AudiCare Plus. But I doubt the dealer will go lower than $37K. Personally, I think you are overlooking the value of a CPO'd car. I think you'll have to buy privately to get a significantly lower price.

[schirm]

I think you searched wrong in KBB, I just looked up my car in good condition it was 37,999

[coverdrive]

OP: Offer $35.5K with AudiCare Plus. But I doubt the dealer will go lower than $37K. Personally, I think you are overlooking the value of a CPO'd car. I think you'll have to buy privately to get a significantly lower price.

Does the Audi care plus cover 55k, 65k, 75k services in full or would i have to pay extra out of pocket at times of service?

Does anyone have an idea what the cost of those services is?

[coverdrive]

I think you searched wrong in KBB, I just looked up my car in good condition it was 37,999


just checked again for P+ w/o 19 inch wheels or Drive Select. Excellent condition is 32.5

http://www.kbb.com/audi/s4/2010-audi-s4/quattro-sedan-4d/?vehicleid=252583&intent=trade-in-sell&options=2796883%7ctrue%7c4445728%7ctrue%7c2796879% 7ctrue%7c2796881%7ctrue%7c2796884%7ctrue%7c2796892 %7ctrue&mileage=36000&pricetype=trade-in

[b6onboost]

The dealer isn't going to let it go for $2k over true trade-in. If they CPO'd it it leaves little profit. Letting it go for $33-35k is below market.

It sounds like a desireable car (colors/options) plus its CPO til 2016 or 100k miles. The pre-owned market has been strong and dealers are often reluctant to slash prices because the cars do sell. If they're asking near $39k, they have room to deal, but they're not going to bite on a low offer that barely puts them in the black.


I am not expecting trade in as the selling price. But possibly 2k more than the trade-in because the dealer probably had the vehicle traded in for less then the KBB/edmunds trade-in value and did some work on top of it. I think 36/37k is too much for a 2010 36k miles.

[coverdrive]

The dealer isn't going to let it go for $2k over true trade-in. If they CPO'd it it leaves little profit. Letting it go for $33-35k is below market.

It sounds like a desireable car (colors/options) plus its CPO til 2016 or 100k miles. The pre-owned market has been strong and dealers are often reluctant to slash prices because the cars do sell. If they're asking near $39k, they have room to deal, but they're not going to bite on a low offer that barely puts them in the black.

I am going to start the negotiations at 35k and see where that takes me. Hopefully the car is in a good condition cosmetically from the outside.

Any idea what the dealer quoted prices for 45k/55k/65k/75k services are? Trying to figure out if audi care plus would be worth it.

[BAHNSTORMER]

Based on what the dealer quoted me last year for my A5, it was worth it if you never do your own maintenance. IIRC, it's also pro-rated, so if you sell/trade it before using it, you're reimbrsed the difference. And you don't pay for any labor rate increases that may occur in coming years.

[coverdrive]

so just saw the car

several paint chips on the front bumper, fenders (no clear bra). Asked the salesman if detailing the car will help remove some of them and he said that won't help and that's how used cars are. I fail to believe that is the case with every car. Some of the them were pretty wide/large. Looking at the front, I would think the car is in 'good' condition instead of 'very good' or 'excellent' from a cosmetics standpoint.

Rest of the car looks pretty good, tires seem to be new. 35k service has been completed. Interior looks good.

What are my options in regards to the front bumper? Can i ask the dealer to paint it? Do I have the option of getting it re-painted if i decide to buy the car?

in terms of #s we didn't discuss anything but he tried to push me to talk as according to him the car is priced to go and isn't going to last for long

[westwest888]

Good to know I could get out for $36k or so. The 6MT are kind of rare (5% of S4 sold) and if you get the right buyer they will pay $39.

[SwankPeRFection]

Car's overpriced by about a couple of k in my opinion. If it had 2x000 miles on it, then yes, it would be a good deal, but seems like a limited Plus version with more miles than it's worth for the 38k they want for it. It's overpriced based on what I've seen. 38k in great condition with that mileage should be putting you in a loaded Prestige.

[coverdrive]

Considering its a cpo shouldn't they touch up the paint blemishes??? Don't they have a paint guy at the dealership that can easily fix these things

Otherwise what is the point of buying cpo if the dealership is not going to put in any effort

[audirings4]

Considering its a cpo shouldn't they touch up the paint blemishes??? Don't they have a paint guy at the dealership that can easily fix these things

Otherwise what is the point of buying cpo if the dealership is not going to put in any effort

FYI you can't "touch up" rock chips. They would need to strip and repaint.
CPO means the car should be mechanically sound. Appearance flaws are just that.
They won't be replacing wheels with curb rash either.

[coverdrive]

FYI you can't "touch up" rock chips. They would need to strip and repaint.
CPO means the car should be mechanically sound. Appearance flaws are just that.
They won't be replacing wheels with curb rash either.

From some other forums I got the impression that they should be doing their best to fix any appearance flaws. In addition the cpo checklist does have inquiries regarding paint condition etc.

[coverdrive]

Car's overpriced by about a couple of k in my opinion. If it had 2x000 miles on it, then yes, it would be a good deal, but seems like a limited Plus version with more miles than it's worth for the 38k they want for it. It's overpriced based on what I've seen. 38k in great condition with that mileage should be putting you in a loaded Prestige.

Def over priced. I know folks want to believe that these cars are holding good value and I am sure they are but paying 37/38k for a used car that if returned to the same dealer a day later will only get me back 32k is quiet absurd. At least in my opinion and I may not be correct in my thinking

[chillindrdude]

Def over priced. I know folks want to believe that these cars are holding good value and I am sure they are but paying 37/38k for a used car that if returned to the same dealer a day later will only get me back 32k is quiet absurd. At least in my opinion and I may not be correct in my thinking

^^^this

theres a reason why they're called "stealerships". With auto sales and demand going strong, dealers have little incentive to negotiate because they know some sucker will buy if you don't. CPO doesn't mean jack squat IMHO. You still have to do your legwork on evaluating the car yourself. In many ways, it's worse you don't know if the previous owner babied or thrashed the car. Some may argue "peace of mind", but I sure as hell wouldn't want to buy a mechanically compromised CPO car to only be driving to the dealer for CPO warranty repairs after I've purchased it.

Private sales take more effort, but meeting the owner, seeing the condition of their house/garage can tell you alot about whether or not they took good care of the car.

[coverdrive]

^^^this

theres a reason why they're called "stealerships". With auto sales and demand going strong, dealers have little incentive to negotiate because they know some sucker will buy if you don't. CPO doesn't mean jack squat IMHO. You still have to do your legwork on evaluating the car yourself. In many ways, it's worse you don't know if the previous owner babied or thrashed the car. Some may argue "peace of mind", but I sure as hell wouldn't want to buy a mechanically compromised CPO car to only be driving to the dealer for CPO warranty repairs after I've purchased it.

Private sales take more effort, but meeting the owner, seeing the condition of their house/garage can tell you alot about whether or not they took good care of the car.

Thanks

Could you elaborate on what you mean "do your leg work"? Should I have it checked out by an independent mechanic?

I am a bit skeptical buying a turned in lease knowing how some ppl treat lease cars as rentals

[b6onboost]

CPO is an inspection but the value is in the warranty. Dealers can pretty much CPO any car and there are plenty of instances where some of the inspection has been fudged. There are certain wear and tear items like brakes, tires, clutch, ect that are supposed to be 'inspected' and replaced during the certification if they do not meet spec. Those are the type of items you want to 'do your leg work' on to make sure they have plenty of life left, because if they need replacement the warranty isn't covering them. Ask for the CPO checklist and for records of all work performed by the dealer.

The salesman is right about the rock chips, pre-owned cars are rarely perfect. They do try their best to fix appearance flaws, but if they resprayed the front end then the car has been partially repainted and a lot of people devalue the car based on that. Plus in that event, who knows if there was other body damage they fixed at that time, just puts a big question mark on things. Of course you can negotiate that they fix those at a discount for you if you buy the car.

[coverdrive]

CPO is an inspection but the value is in the warranty. Dealers can pretty much CPO any car and there are plenty of instances where some of the inspection has been fudged. There are certain wear and tear items like brakes, tires, clutch, ect that are supposed to be 'inspected' and replaced during the certification if they do not meet spec. Those are the type of items you want to 'do your leg work' on to make sure they have plenty of life left, because if they need replacement the warranty isn't covering them. Ask for the CPO checklist and for records of all work performed by the dealer.

The salesman is right about the rock chips, pre-owned cars are rarely perfect. They do try their best to fix appearance flaws, but if they resprayed the front end then the car has been partially repainted and a lot of people devalue the car based on that. Plus in that event, who knows if there was other body damage they fixed at that time, just puts a big question mark on things. Of course you can negotiate that they fix those at a discount for you if you buy the car.

Thanks for the feedback. I have emailed the dealership and asked them for the checklist / repair records.

Yesterday when I was speaking to the salesman (Audi Brand Specialist BLAH), I asked him about service records or if the tires were new. He was like we don't have anything to show and he isn't sure about the tires. WTH? What do these people think we are? Is this the kind of service that is the norm with Audi? The car wasn't even properly washed, forget about being detailed. I don't think they made any attempt to 'fix appearance flaws'. When I asked him about the chips and pretty visible road rash all over the front bumper, he was like that's how it is going to be. That is some BS. He was more inclined to talk about how the car isn't going to last for long. All that BS but the car "is priced to sell". BS.

[Support@KMDtuning]

I don't think they made any attempt to 'fix appearance flaws'. When I asked him about the chips and pretty visible road rash all over the front bumper, he was like that's how it is going to be. That is some BS.

Well unfortunately the car is used. The only way to get a perfect car appearance wise is to buy brand new.

[coverdrive]

Well unfortunately the car is used. The only way to get a perfect car appearance wise is to buy brand new.

obviously a new car is a new car. But what is the dealer making all those grands for if they aren't going to put any effort into the car? Seems like private party is the better approach as possibly you can find owners that have actually taken care of their cars

[Mike00]

obviously a new car is a new car. But what is the dealer making all those grands for if they aren't going to put any effort into the car? Seems like private party is the better approach as possibly you can find owners that have actually taken care of their cars

Private party could be better but I sure as hell wouldn't want this car without a warranty. For example if you're unlucky and your DSG transmission goes you could easily pay $10k plus to replace. Not something I would want to deal with.

Anyway if the car has that bad of chips just move on to another CPO. Some dealers will deal and others won't. For a dealer it's not worth flipping a car like this for less than $2,500 in profit. realistically they are going to bill $3,000 - $3,500 more minimum over what they paid for it. If you don't like that you are probably better off with private party. keep in mind repair costs are very high on this car.

My own 13 S4 will be traded in and/or extended warranty purchased about 3.5 years in. At this point I'm thinking trade in - the new Vettes are soo nice. I'm doing that because I will not risk an expensive transmission or engine issue out of warranty. Just too expensive.

[bknewtype]

as others say

CPO is just to make sure the car is in perfect running condition and pass thoer 300 point (?) inspection. cosmetics is not thier concern. YOU may feel that they should fix it, but to THEM whats more important is that it is running.

if u are not happy with the way it looks, just dont buy it. the dealer DOES NOT have to fix the comsetic flaws of the car, despite how much or how little it will cost. cause like others said, if you dont buy it, someone else will.

[b6onboost]

If you like the car, just tell them what you want and make them a one time best offer. Tell them you don't want to play games and that its non-negotiatble. Offer what you feel its worth and what you'd be happy with paying. From that point its a simple yes or no.

If its a no, move on, there are other cars out there.

[bknewtype]

^+4923457529578234957234589

i went to my dealer. gave them an offer without negotiating. i said this is my offer, no more, no less. they came back and said deal.

[audirings4]

obviously a new car is a new car. But what is the dealer making all those grands for if they aren't going to put any effort into the car? Seems like private party is the better approach as possibly you can find owners that have actually taken care of their cars

The dealer won't be "making all those grands" if they repaint and replace all of cosmetic parts.
With private party sales some owners dont disclose issues so I would suggest going to a dealer and getting CPO.
If you want the CPO warranty you're going to need to bring it in anyway and if you unknowingly bought a TD1 flagged car from a private seller you're screwed.

[AdamNoone]

Dealers hardly use KBB or NADA. They go based on recent sales prices at Manheim Auctions and other major auctions. I just went to trade in my 2010 with 62k, and they were giving me 30k before discounting the 2014 S4. The S4 definitely holds its value. My car is P+, Nav, Nappa, B/U cam, no diff, no B&O. Id assume the trade value is 32-33, then you add dealer package (non negotiable), 2k for CPO, and a small profit, you'll probably score it to 36.5-37k.

[coverdrive]

just got an email from the salesman that they are willing to paint the front bumper and fix the small chips.

in terms of the usual DSG related issues that are common, is there anything I should be looking for?

[coverdrive]

how reliable is the stronic transmission if there haven't been any problems so far with 36k miles? If maintenance schedule is followed, should stronic last the life of the car?

[breyton490]

I just bought a 2010 S4 Prestige this summer. The car was listed at $40K, dealer would only budge slightly to 39,500

It was not a CPO and purchased from a non-Audi dealer.

- 36K miles
- DSG transmission
- Has Audi Care to 45K miles
- Came with new rubber on all 4 wheels
- Rims were in perfect shape
- Some small nicks, on hood and a few very small dings on hood and door... almost invisible
- Warranty end in Jan 2014

There were lots of Premiums for sale around 37-39K, but the dealer was holding firm on the price because the comparable on the Prestige editions were similar in price at dealerships withing a 100 miles

[blackfunk]

I bought a 2010 S4 P+,
no active diff
nav
B&O
all leather
42k miles, no major scratches or imperfections for 34.5k about 5 months ago.
Four brand new tires
Brakes were also new all around with new rotors in the front
Warranty good until 3/14

[Bronx Cheer]

^^^this

theres a reason why they're called "stealerships". With auto sales and demand going strong, dealers have little incentive to negotiate because they know some sucker will buy if you don't. CPO doesn't mean jack squat IMHO. You still have to do your legwork on evaluating the car yourself. In many ways, it's worse you don't know if the previous owner babied or thrashed the car. Some may argue "peace of mind", but I sure as hell wouldn't want to buy a mechanically compromised CPO car to only be driving to the dealer for CPO warranty repairs after I've purchased it.

Private sales take more effort, but meeting the owner, seeing the condition of their house/garage can tell you alot about whether or not they took good care of the car.

So what you are basically saying is that it is NOT overpriced - if the dealership could indeed sell it to somebody else with little effort that is the definition of market rate. The convenience of purchasing from a dealership and the benefit of getting CPO costs you something.

[Luna's S4]

Hey guys -

So my local audi dealership just got a 2010 s4 traded in. It was a lease vehicle.

Here are the specs:

36000k
Premium +
Ibis White
Black Interior w/Carbon Inlays
B&O Sound
Silk Nappa Seats
Sports Rear Diff
Nav w/camera

The dealer is saying it is CPO. Original Warranty is still active,will expire in 05/2014.

Internet listed price is $38,986.

KBB Trade-in Value for Very Good is $30,500 and Excellent is $31,166. Edmunds TMV is $31,500.


What price should I aim for? Also should the dealer be able to provide me complete service record / carfax / what things were fixed/checked during CPO process?

For what it's worth: My experience, a CPO will get you service records and a CarFax, among other things. Even the thermostat replacement at 5k showed up. Be sure to check the tires for wear and construction date. I wound up with two odd tires out of the four and one was even more worn with a different build date. When I picked up a nail, the local tire guys pointed it out. Worked with dealer and they agreed to replace two tires and charge us half the price of one tire. I think tires, although relatively inexpensive, are somewhere the dealers can save by mixing and matching.

[Apex]

I think you'll only be able to steal that car if it sits on the lot for a while. There's usually someone willing to pay more than you.

[SwankPeRFection]

For what it's worth: My experience, a CPO will get you service records and a CarFax, among other things. Even the thermostat replacement at 5k showed up. Be sure to check the tires for wear and construction date. I wound up with two odd tires out of the four and one was even more worn with a different build date. When I picked up a nail, the local tire guys pointed it out. Worked with dealer and they agreed to replace two tires and charge us half the price of one tire. I think tires, although relatively inexpensive, are somewhere the dealers can save by mixing and matching.

Then you had a shitty dealer who didn't want to spend any money to properly CPO the car. CPOing the car means you actually HAVE TO make sure that all functions of the car are in factory like condition. Tires, brakes, suspension, engine, etc. all have to be in proper working condition and without issues. (If the brakes are worn, they're supposed to replace them, tires the same, etc.

[man n black]

Having bought 2 premium cars from dealerships in the last 8 months, I can assure you that you'll be very lucky to have them budge AT ALL on price unless you are waving cash in their face.... KBB and Edmunds means zip to them.

Good luck

Ch

Sent using XT912 M

[Luna's S4]

Then you had a shitty dealer who didn't want to spend any money to properly CPO the car. CPOing the car means you actually HAVE TO make sure that all functions of the car are in factory like condition. Tires, brakes, suspension, engine, etc. all have to be in proper working condition and without issues. (If the brakes are worn, they're supposed to replace them, tires the same, etc.

Yeah, I was disappointed. And it took some logical discussion to get them to correct it. My argument centered around not believing Audi had this in mind when promoting the CPO idea. To their credit, they made an immediate 180 on the issue. Just wanted to make sure to check, because I didn't.

[breyton490]

I bought an non-CPO 2010 S4 Prestige in April. The car had every option you listed, plus the smart door key and was an automatic. I was under warranty until Jan 2014 and had Audi Care.

Dealer initially had it listed for $42K. It sat at the dealership for 6 months, then they dropped the price to $39,999. I tried like hell to get them to budge $500 bucks... No go.. ended up buying for 39,999.

While I was shopping, I saw a private sale for 38,6 w/manual xmission, but wasn't the color i wanted, so i passed.

So far so good, but this past weekend, I just had a "Suspension System Fault" error code pop up on my DIS. Took it to the dealer to see whats up... fingers crossed, the car will hold up after the warranty has expired.

Good Luck

[coverdrive]

Went to another dealer and test drove a 2011 S4 (25k miles). The car seemed to be in great condition. Dealer showed me all service records. BUT car has had a rear accident with some bumper damaged that was fixed. No structural damage. Here is the carfax:

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=DLR_3&vin=WAUBGAFL2BA135535

Car is listed at 39.5k. Dealer said if I want to cpo it will be around 40.5k

I liked the car but am skeptical about the accident as it is on the carfax and not sure what impact it will have down the line if i try to sell the car. Any thoughts?

[s4buckeye]

Went to another dealer and test drove a 2011 S4 (25k miles). The car seemed to be in great condition. Dealer showed me all service records. BUT car has had a rear accident with some bumper damaged that was fixed. No structural damage. Here is the carfax:

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=DLR_3&vin=WAUBGAFL2BA135535

Car is listed at 39.5k. Dealer said if I want to cpo it will be around 40.5k

I liked the car but am skeptical about the accident as it is on the carfax and not sure what impact it will have down the line if i try to sell the car. Any thoughts?

Yes, plenty of cars to be bought that have not been ass ended. Pass and keep looking unless they give it away for far less than they are offering.

[boostfiend77]

Not sure what rate you are currently getting but you can get 0.9-1.49% on 48 month finance if you have over 720 fico rather easily incase CPO % isn't under 2% and more if you are in the military.

[coverdrive]

Yes, plenty of cars to be bought that have not been ass ended. Pass and keep looking unless they give it away for far less than they are offering.

That's where my doubt is also...i don't think the car damage was significant but still i feel because of the accident on the carfax i would i have to get a really good deal for me to go for it

[coverdrive]

Went to another dealer and test drove a 2011 S4 (25k miles). The car seemed to be in great condition. Dealer showed me all service records. BUT car has had a rear accident with some bumper damaged that was fixed. No structural damage. Here is the carfax:

http://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?partner=DLR_3&vin=WAUBGAFL2BA135535

Car is listed at 39.5k. Dealer said if I want to cpo it will be around 40.5k

I liked the car but am skeptical about the accident as it is on the carfax and not sure what impact it will have down the line if i try to sell the car. Any thoughts?


So spoke to the Used Car Manager and is saying his final offer is 38.5 without CPO and 41k with CPO. I told him I will get back to him.

I think for a car with an accident on the carfax (even though it wasn't anything major), 41k is too much.

[Wheelman2188]

So spoke to the Used Car Manager and is saying his final offer is 38.5 without CPO and 41k with CPO. I told him I will get back to him.

I think for a car with an accident on the carfax (even though it wasn't anything major), 41k is too much.

I bought my 911 turbo with a minor accident on it, no big I thought. Then when I owned it someone bumped it. No major damage but it was on the carfax. Long story short I lost my ass because of it. I will never touch a car of decent caliber with an accident ever again. Don't make the same mistake. Steer clear!

[coverdrive]

I bought my 911 turbo with a minor accident on it, no big I thought. Then when I owned it someone bumped it. No major damage but it was on the carfax. Long story short I lost my ass because of it. I will never touch a car of decent caliber with an accident ever again. Don't make the same mistake. Steer clear!

Thanks, I will take your suggestion and stay away for now

[thebc]

So what you are basically saying is that it is NOT overpriced - if the dealership could indeed sell it to somebody else with little effort that is the definition of market rate. The convenience of purchasing from a dealership and the benefit of getting CPO costs you something.

+1

It's called a free market system. The value of the goods is what someone is willing to pay for it. And people are clearly paying that.

I paid 43k for my '10 Prestige and it had 14k miles (options listed in my sig).