Help my wife (and me) decide on her next car to replace a 2008 TSX

[Moose201]

The reason I'm posting this in the S4 forum is I figure that many of you have owned the cars we are considering. After 50,000 miles, the TSX has been 100% reliable but it is unacceptable to drive for any distance due to spine-breakingly uncomfortable bucket seats. It is time to move on and we would prefer that the next car have the following features and qualities:

1. Fun to drive.
2. Comfortable on all-day driving trips.
3. All wheel drive.
4. Manual transmission.

We don't want to spend more than $40k on a new car so that rules out another S4. We're going to start the test driving process soon but I value the opinions of people who are familiar with the ones we are considering.

[boss2k]

How about TL SH AWD -- MT , i hear the AWD is very good and fast too and comfortable

[SwankPeRFection]

At 40k, that about maybe leaves the A4, but it won't be as fun to drive as an S4. Are you dead set on new or would used/CPO be an option for you. If you get lucky and find a low mileage one that's CPO, you would have some good warranty time left on it.

[F40LM]

Infiniti Q50? G37X thats been sitting on the lot hat they want to get rid of? I really dont like many cars that are out at the moment. I would say have her pick up the new bmw 4 series when it comes out, but that is probably a 50k+ car. For best fun for your money the G37 or Q50 would smoke the A4


I had an 05 WRX STi for 5 years. Heard about tons of blown motors including several on stock tunes. I would stay away from them. I was starting to experience issues myself by 50k miles.

[drob23]

A4 and WRX couldn't be more different. I was also originally shopping in this sort of price range (with the desire to get AWD) and found the Golf R to be the best compromise. But then I figured spending 37k on a VW Golf seemed a little unreasonable. After helping my GF get into a new GTI, if I had to do it all over again (i.e. make my car payments *significantly* less haha), I would have got a focus ST or a used e46 M3. If you run some winter tires you'll be fine with FWD or RWD as long as you're not driving into the mountains IMO.

[Moose201]

How about TL SH AWD -- MT , i hear the AWD is very good and fast too and comfortable

Interesting option as I've heard good things about SH-AWD. Not fond of the exterior looks but, dynamically speaking, this might be worth considering.

[Moose201]

A4 and WRX couldn't be more different. I was also originally shopping in this sort of price range (with the desire to get AWD) and found the Golf R to be the best compromise. But then I figured spending 37k on a VW Golf seemed a little unreasonable. After helping my GF get into a new GTI, if I had to do it all over again (i.e. make my car payments *significantly* less haha), I would have got a focus ST or a used e46 M3. If you run some winter tires you'll be fine with FWD or RWD as long as you're not driving into the mountains IMO.

Agree about $37k for a Golf but I've seen discounts ranging from $3k to $5k so that would take off some of the edge. With respect to winter tires, already have 'em for the S4 and no room for another set.

[audi49]

Sounds like long-drives comfort is quite important for you. And you mentioned that you'll be test driving.... everyone's judgement of what comfortable is is different, but I'd have concern for each of these 3 as being comfortable. I recall test driving a 2010 A4 with sport package and thought it's ride was quite stiff. Have fun shopping.

[Moose201]

Sounds like long-drives comfort is quite important for you. And you mentioned that you'll be test driving.... everyone's judgement of what comfortable is is different, but I'd have concern for each of these 3 as being comfortable. I recall test driving a 2010 A4 with sport package and thought it's ride was quite stiff. Have fun shopping.

Yes, you are correct about the long-distance driving. We've taken our S4 on a couple of long trips already and don't see a problem with the ride from a comfort standpoint. The other two key aspects of long-distance comfort are the seats and isolation from noise in the cabin. The S4 has been superb in this regard so I suspect we'd be fine with an A4/Sport.

[Drew855]

I would definitely consider a g37x or the new Q50. Can't speak to the Q50, but the G37x is definitely much more fun to drive than the A4 in my opinion. It is pretty comfortable for me too.

[SE-Chris]

Spending more than 20k for a VW Golf is ridiculous to me... It's a tiny little hatchback and doesn't have any of the luxury, comfort, or class that you should expect from something in the 30k+ range

An Acura ANYTHING is better than any golf on the market IMO. Sure, the golf might be a super/turbo charged speedy little go-kart but that doesn't sound like what you're after.

Sounds like the whole reason you're getting rid of the Acura is because of the seats being uncomfortable? You'll need to test drive a lot of vehicles and find something that works for you probably. It doesn't matter if you were given a free 100k S8 or something if the seats aren't comfortable you won't be happy. And as i'm sure everyone knows, money doesn't automatically = comfortable seats...

[Moose201]

I would definitely consider a g37x or the new Q50. Can't speak to the Q50, but the G37x is definitely much more fun to drive than the A4 in my opinion. It is pretty comfortable for me too.

F40LM mentioned the same thing. Solid idea but I don't think that AWD is available with 6MT in the Infiniti world.

[beyond infiniti]

Not 100% sure about the price, but consider the Range Rover Evoque.

[F40LM]

I dont think you can get a g37x in manual either. I was looking for one a while back. I dont know what your opinion on used is, but a CPO 335i x drive sounds kind of good for this case. BMW is dying to sell the remaining 335 coupes too. You can get a sweet deal on one right now. They were willing to do pretty much anything to sell me it over the S4, but I bought the S4 haha. The downside is that car will be obselete in a few months because the 4 series is coming out.

[infinkc]

Manual transmission and awd really limit you. Any reason for the MT still?

[Moose201]

Manual transmission and awd really limit you. Any reason for the MT still?

Never owned a car with an automatic. I drove an S4 with DSG and it is pretty darn slick but my bride and I both enjoy driving a manual.

[b6onboost]

I vote A4.

Compared to the TSX an A4 would be an upgrade in all categories. Its a larger, more comfortable, more luxurious car. It has a superior all weather ability. Its more fun to drive being quicker, torquier, and having better handling. Its also more efficient. As long as you don't go overboard on options you can get one under $40k. Only downside is you may have to order one if you want a manual tranny, dealers simply do not stock them, they'll usually only have 1-2 and it will either be a no options base A4 for $35k or a fully loaded S-Line for $49k.

Golf Rs are a lot sportier, but also less comfortable and obviously not as luxurious. They're really overpriced in my opinion.

WRXs are a good value. Fun to drive fast, but otherwise a pretty mediocre car.

[F40LM]

I vote A4.

Compared to the TSX an A4 would be an upgrade in all categories. Its a larger, more comfortable, more luxurious car. It has a superior all weather ability. Its more fun to drive being quicker, torquier, and having better handling. Its also more efficient. As long as you don't go overboard on options you can get one under $40k. Only downside is you may have to order one if you want a manual tranny, dealers simply do not stock them, they'll usually only have 1-2 and it will either be a no options base A4 for $35k or a fully loaded S-Line for $49k.

Golf Rs are a lot sportier, but also less comfortable and obviously not as luxurious. They're really overpriced in my opinion.

WRXs are a good value. Fun to drive fast, but otherwise a pretty mediocre car.

If you don't care about luxury the WRX is a great car............ as long as your under warranty. They could get a decently packaged a4 under 40. High 40s on an A4 is absolutely absurd. You can buy an S4 for the same price or less than 49 out the door.

[saxon]

328I xdrive would be my choice over the a4. Imo your going to miss that reliable tsx with any German car

[Moose201]

I vote A4.

Compared to the TSX an A4 would be an upgrade in all categories. Its a larger, more comfortable, more luxurious car. It has a superior all weather ability. Its more fun to drive being quicker, torquier, and having better handling. Its also more efficient. As long as you don't go overboard on options you can get one under $40k. Only downside is you may have to order one if you want a manual tranny, dealers simply do not stock them, they'll usually only have 1-2 and it will either be a no options base A4 for $35k or a fully loaded S-Line for $49k.

Golf Rs are a lot sportier, but also less comfortable and obviously not as luxurious. They're really overpriced in my opinion.

WRXs are a good value. Fun to drive fast, but otherwise a pretty mediocre car.

I find myself leaning in this direction. We'll be driving a Golf R some time this week but we drove a GTI on Saturday to get a feel for interior space and I think I would miss the spacious trunk of the B8.5. The Audi will also have an edge on quality of interior materials judging by the GTI.

[Amorphic]

If you don't care about luxury the WRX is a great car............ as long as your under warranty. They could get a decently packaged a4 under 40. High 40s on an A4 is absolutely absurd. You can buy an S4 for the same price or less than 49 out the door.

Be thankful you dont live in Canada. Base A4 is over 40 grand. Fully loaded is 50. A fully loaded S4 is 65,000.

[b6onboost]

Actually, if you already have a B8.5 S4, a Golf R may be a good choice if dealers will discount them. Atleaset that way you could switch cars from time to time and both still be 'excited' to drive the others' car.

If I had to personally choose between an A4 and Golf R, I'd choose an A4...however if I already had an S4 I'd probably choose the Golf R.


I find myself leaning in this direction. We'll be driving a Golf R some time this week but we drove a GTI on Saturday to get a feel for interior space and I think I would miss the spacious trunk of the B8.5. The Audi will also have an edge on quality of interior materials judging by the GTI.

[youngwhon]

I just recently switched from a 2012 WRX to a 09 A4 (needed money). The WRX is a great car.. super fun to drive. Power, handling, etc., are all on point. But, it is not the most luxurious car.. The seats do not have much support so it isnt the best for long road trips. I drove it from oregon to cali a few times and my back was sore. Looks like you're looking for something a bit more on the luxury side.. so I would have to say an a4.. or try and find a used s4 if you want a fun car to drive. A4 is not going to be much fun but will be very comfortable.

[SwankPeRFection]

Don't take this the wrong way because it's not meant that way, but it has always been said that the WRX is the poor man's S4. It honestly couldn't be more true. I had one and I loved it. The new ones look even better in wagon form because of the platform finally using the same flared fenders as the sedan. For the price of a Golf R, you can get an STI, but for around that same price you can find a CPO S4 with somewhere under 30k miles and be happy you got what you really wanted. In the end, pick what you feel comfortable getting, but whatever you do, DON'T compromise and get a car you don't really want because you can't afford the one you really want. If all else, wait and save up more if you have to. In the long run I think you'll be happier.

[Moose201]

I just recently switched from a 2012 WRX to a 09 A4 (needed money). The WRX is a great car.. super fun to drive. Power, handling, etc., are all on point. But, it is not the most luxurious car.. The seats do not have much support so it isnt the best for long road trips. I drove it from oregon to cali a few times and my back was sore. Looks like you're looking for something a bit more on the luxury side.. so I would have to say an a4.. or try and find a used s4 if you want a fun car to drive. A4 is not going to be much fun but will be very comfortable.

Thanks for the comments. I haven't sat in a WRX lately but, judging only by the photos on the Subaru website, the seats don't look very impressive. My E36 M3, B6 S4 and current S4 all had/have seats that are drive-all-day comfortable. The shape of the seats, the quality and firmness of the foam all point to designers who obviously took the human back into consideration.

[F40LM]

Thanks for the comments. I haven't sat in a WRX lately but, judging only by the photos on the Subaru website, the seats don't look very impressive. My E36 M3, B6 S4 and current S4 all had/have seats that are drive-all-day comfortable. The shape of the seats, the quality and firmness of the foam all point to designers who obviously took the human back into consideration.

I used to get lower back irritation from 2 hour drives in the WRX seats. They are not very nice seats at all. That is one of the main reasons I switched to the luxury car market. The newest seats almost looked exactly like the ones I had before. Based off my experience daily driving my WRX for 5 years, I would rather pursue used luxury performance car options than buying a WRX/STi.
.

[hughesga]

Get an S4 - you'll never regret it. Unless it breaks in you, Or you get in an accident, or you buy a lemon.

[SwankPeRFection]

Well, considering the OP has an S4 for himself already, the wife can always drive it if necessary. In that case, save some money and find her one of these... B8 A4 Avant S-Line Looks good, has all the similar type of eye candy as the S4, missing the engine. ;)

http://www.gearfx.com/audi/whispbar048.jpg

[drob23]

http://www.netcarshow.com/Volkswagen-Golf_R-2014-wallpaper.jpg

(yea, I know, new model...but this looks really sick!)

[Moose201]

http://www.netcarshow.com/Volkswagen-Golf_R-2014-wallpaper.jpg

(yea, I know, new model...but this looks really sick!)

We're test driving the Golf R tomorrow night so we'll see what happens. I suspect it will be a fun car to drive around town and during 4 seasons but I have my doubts about a cross country trip....it's a pretty small car.

[Mops@Nemesis]

We're test driving the Golf R tomorrow night so we'll see what happens. I suspect it will be a fun car to drive around town and during 4 seasons but I have my doubts about a cross country trip....it's a pretty small car.

You'd be surprised.

[SwankPeRFection]

You need a touring car for cross-country trip. It's obvious you need a new RS7. [;)]

[Madbusy168]

OP, here's my most blunt answer for you, you are coming from a Tsx, its a relatively comfy sedan from acura. Jumping into a wrx or a golf is not going to be anywhere as comfy, especially if you are getting rid of the tsx for "uncomfy seats" I dont see how a more bumpy wrx or golf is going to be any better in the comfort zone.. if you want comfy, i suggest a Lexus Is250 dont know if the new ones have manual or not though. Like another member pointed out, manual and awd is very hard to come by. a cheap no frills A4 or bmw 328 is your safest bet if you want European. I would really consider a TL, its one of the best bang for the buck car out there. Again, we are talking about realistic comfy cars, not wrx or golf,, those H.S. days are over.. lol

[Moose201]

OP, here's my most blunt answer for you, you are coming from a Tsx, its a relatively comfy sedan from acura. Jumping into a wrx or a golf is not going to be anywhere as comfy, especially if you are getting rid of the tsx for "uncomfy seats" I dont see how a more bumpy wrx or golf is going to be any better in the comfort zone.. if you want comfy, i suggest a Lexus Is250 dont know if the new ones have manual or not though. Like another member pointed out, manual and awd is very hard to come by. a cheap no frills A4 or bmw 328 is your safest bet if you want European. I would really consider a TL, its one of the best bang for the buck car out there. Again, we are talking about realistic comfy cars, not wrx or golf,, those H.S. days are over.. lol

Largely agree with your comments. A P+ A4 w/Sport pkg will come in under $40k (after discounts) and is probably the best compromise. The Golf R would be in the low $30s and there would be some comfort and space sacrifices in exchange for more power, toss ability and excellent seats. The IS250 is no longer available with a stick. We may look into an SH-AWD TL but, in my opinion, it's got a face only a mother could love. Just to clarify one thing about the seats in the TSX, it's not that they are uncomfy....they are downright unforgiving and punishing.

[QTC]

Golf R is great, but a bit tough to stomach the added cost over the (already great) GTI - heavy discount and I'd reconsider, as the MkVI is a great chassis. F30 328xi is a better choice than the A4 imo - more power, better driving experience, comparable interior. Subaru I never found to be very comfortable, but YMMV.

[Moose201]

Golf R is great, but a bit tough to stomach the added cost over the (already great) GTI - heavy discount and I'd reconsider, as the MkVI is a great chassis. F30 328xi is a better choice than the A4 imo - more power, better driving experience, comparable interior. Subaru I never found to be very comfortable, but YMMV.

There are plenty of Golf Rs out there right now, all with manual trans. Biggest published discount I've seen so far is $5k. As for the 328ix, it's $5-6k above a comparably equipped A4. We'll see how the test drive goes tomorrow night.

[mattchat]

My vote is for the SH-AWD TL, and you can get a black optics package on the front Grill to somewhat hide that massive Chrome shield that makes it soooooo ugly.

[Seis-Speed]

BMW XDrive for the criteria you mention. Go with a used e90, the steering and torque on those cars are a blast. Option B, would be an A4, Option C, G37x.... I like the A4, but if you have an S4 mix it up a little.

[vwfansince4]

OP -IMHO if you're on the fence about the Golf R, I'd say don't do it. The reality is all the R models have been "over-priced", yet to an enthusiast who truly wants a special/limited edition model, it'll come w/ no regrets. But if you go in half-hearted, you'll probably end up looking at the payment as a boat anchor, and eventually unload it, feeling like it's not worth it.

Based on your criteria, I'd say the A4 is the answer. I see a lot of them commuting from PA towards NYC so they're clearly a car that people don't mind sitting in for long stints!

[F40LM]

The new Acuras are some of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. I don't know how they haven't made a major redesign again. Those cars stick out and not in a good way.... In a Scion toastermobile kind of way.

[Moose201]

The new Acuras are some of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. I don't know how they haven't made a major redesign again. Those cars stick out and not in a good way.... In a Scion toastermobile kind of way.

Yes, not quite hideous like a Juke but definitely beyond homely in my opinion. I would need to think twice before parking one of the current Acuras in my garage.

[F40LM]

Yes, not quite hideous like a Juke but definitely beyond homely in my opinion. I would need to think twice before parking one of the current Acuras in my garage.

haha Yeah, that answers your question whether to get the TL or not then. I didn't even think about the IS250 like someone mentioned. It just depends if you can get it in AWD and manual. I think that would be a pretty nice car to DD. It looks really nice too opposed to the new GS that looks kind of strange.

[Moose201]

haha Yeah, that answers your question whether to get the TL or not then. I didn't even think about the IS250 like someone mentioned. It just depends if you can get it in AWD and manual. I think that would be a pretty nice car to DD. It looks really nice too opposed to the new GS that looks kind of strange.

No more manuals for any IS.

[F40LM]

No more manuals for any IS.

Wow, I guess we could all see it coming that there would be less and less manual options as technology advanced. I still don't agree with it. Not everyone wants a machine that does everything for you. I will go back to manual after I have my fun with my DSG.

[Moose201]

Well, the wife and I drove the Golf R last night for about an hour. Very fun car. Better steering than my S4; typical turbo lag followed by a nice burst of power. Shifter is okay but a little sloppy. Car feels very planted and composed over a variety of surfaces and a variety of speeds. Trunk space is typical for a hatchback, i.e., minimal. Interior is austere but we both liked the simplicity of the controls. Seats are perfect although the manual adjustments are cut rate for a $35k car. Somewhat of a boomy sound inside which I suspect is the Soundaktor. Overall, she really liked it.

We then wandered across the street to the Audi dealer and sat in an A4. Not surprisingly, the interior is much nicer. Basically, the A4 says "come on in and relax" while the Golf R says "let's play".

Next step is to find an A4 w/stick and Sport Pkg that we can drive.