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View Full Version : Comp turbo 1, stock aeb 0? Probably.....



zandrew
08-12-2013, 04:15 PM
So today I got bored and decided to install my ebc in hopes it would resolve a flat spot between 3k and 4k. Got everything hooked up and set my lo boost 12psi and my hi boost 16psi. Take the car for a spin on 12 psi and its fine. Did notice quicker pick up from 3k to 4k. Turn around and select hi boost. Take off and get to third and mash the gas and notice after 3k I'm hitting oh shit speed. Its well past 5k and glance over at the boost gage with my shit eating smile and notice I'm past 25 lbs and approaching 30 when I get out of it.

Dumb shit set the hi boost to 2.1 bar instead of 1.1 bar. The motor didn't pop but it does not feel happy. Close too 30psi on craptane sounds like a bad idea. It's time to push for the 2.0 build.

So whats the estimate of hp at 25psi (it was very close to 30ps) on a 5552 at 5500 RPM on a Maestro 630 base file? Whatever it was it felt good...

A1 A2 German
08-12-2013, 06:01 PM
I think we're going to rename this site Zandrewzine. :)

Seerlah
08-12-2013, 06:09 PM
haha




So whats the estimate of hp at 25psi (it was very close to 30ps) on a 5552 at 5500 RPM on a Maestro 630 base file? Whatever it was it felt good...

Your guess is as good as ours.

zandrew
08-12-2013, 06:41 PM
I think we're going to rename this site Zandrewzine. :)

Bro no way. There's a lot worse then me, lol.

Most people that do dumb shit keep their lips zipped. My motor does not feel right. It feels like it's running on 3 1/2 pistons.

runvsofme07
08-12-2013, 07:17 PM
Might be blowing by, or slightly bent a rod and now its down on compression.. check ur compression asap! u were probably making 400 tho, bet it felt nasty!

Poopie
08-12-2013, 07:18 PM
It's probably fine. You probably felt the glory of running a turbo past 20 psi and now you can't go back to low boost.

zandrew
08-12-2013, 07:23 PM
I am running 87 octane. The motor feels gimpy at idle but oddly when I go through the revs it picks up fine. At idle it has vac but just feels funny. I am going to check my compression tomorrow and if I can't fgure it out may take a video and post it.

thenj3
08-12-2013, 07:44 PM
why you running 87 octane? that may be one of the dumbest thiings i've seen posted about a big turbo car? ever thing that might of been your issue for your "flat spot." ever log your timing. you almost deserved to grenade a motor lol

BaseDrifter
08-12-2013, 07:48 PM
You were running...87?

Poopie
08-12-2013, 08:05 PM
running 87octane? i cannot comprehend

bw86
08-12-2013, 08:12 PM
I am running 87 octane.

http://i.imgur.com/a4uo7WF.gif

coolgraymemo
08-12-2013, 08:17 PM
I hope the dollar you saved was worth it.

zandrew
08-12-2013, 08:25 PM
It was actually half 91 and half 87 (may have been just below half). Last time I filled up the only thing avalible was 87 and since it was a mix I figured I was OK. Typically I never have issues with getting 91 but there is a damn State Fair in town and all the 89 and 91 is gone. I would have held out and passed up the 87 but when you live in area with around 6,000 people that suddenly swells to 50,000+ gas tends to be hard to get so take it when you can. I actually never thought about the 87 till I wrote the post since I always run 91 and if I am somewhere that has 93 I buy 93.

The flat spot I am referring to is when I get to 3400 on the N75 I had 5psi and it seemed to just float at 5psi till 4000 and then it would climb to 15psi by 4800. With the EBC I actually have 5psi by 3000 and 15psi by 4100-4200.

I actually ran the datalog and I had a very tiny bit of knock on 3 which seems to always be there no matter what but it does not pull timing. If I can figure out how to get the datalog up I will post it.

Poopie
08-12-2013, 08:41 PM
slight knock on cylinder 3? i bet your rod is slightly bent. I had the same with my stock block.

M-Hood
08-12-2013, 08:52 PM
Might be blowing by, or slightly bent a rod and now its down on compression.. check ur compression asap! u were probably making 400 tho, bet it felt nasty!

Hard to make 400hp without timing, you can't do it on boost alone. lol

zandrew
08-13-2013, 06:58 AM
Hard to make 400hp without timing, you can't do it on boost alone. lol

I'm missing your point. Yes I know hp is made from timing but I'm still confused what point your trying to make.

M-Hood
08-13-2013, 07:10 AM
I'm missing your point. Yes I know hp is made from timing but I'm still confused what point your trying to make.


I was just telling that person that just because a turbo is pushing 25psi doesn't mean it is making high hp seeing that the ecu was most likely retarding the hell out of the adv timing. So my point was that boost doesn't mean shit if the spark is igniting the fuel way too late. If you had been making some real hp/tq at 25psi you would be posting pictures of the hole/holes that are in your block.


BTW did I say you didn't know hp was made from timing? No seeing my reply wasn't even to you which is why there is a "quote" from someone else in my reply. lol

zandrew
08-13-2013, 09:16 AM
I was just telling that person that just because a turbo is pushing 25psi doesn't mean it is making high hp seeing that the ecu was most likely retarding the hell out of the adv timing. So my point was that boost doesn't mean shit if the spark is igniting the fuel way too late. If you had been making some real hp/tq at 25psi you would be posting pictures of the hole/holes that are in your block.


BTW did I say you didn't know hp was made from timing? No seeing my reply wasn't even to you which is why there is a "quote" from someone else in my reply. lol

Mike you need to calm down. There was nothing malicious about my post. I was genuinely missing your point which is understandable. You obviously have a great deal to contribute but honestly a lot of your posts seem more like attempts to discredit other members then offer up something of value. Half of your repost I just ignore since they become never ending back and forths.

I am confused how you point out the getboosted made so much hp on the stock 630 base file at 25psi but now when I run the exact same file its not making hp. I think our turbos are fairly similiar as well. It was not my point to run 25+psi but when it happened it felt good. Great actually but I am realistic and its my intention to keep it within range so this motor will last till my 2.0 is finished.

These motors are weird. I have seen posts where members have made 350whp and never had a single issue from their stock motor. I have seen people run less then 250whp and have busted blocks. Its confusing. It seems like torque is what kills them and is a more common denominator then hp itself.

Poopie the slight knock has been there even when I datalogged my K04 with pc16. It happens around 4800-5200 and its very brief but it seems to have been there for atleast the last 4,000 miles. I would not be surprised if my rods are toast.

M-Hood
08-13-2013, 09:30 AM
Mike you need to calm down. There was nothing malicious about my post. I was genuinely missing your point which is understandable. You obviously have a great deal to contribute but honestly a lot of your posts seem more like attempts to discredit other members then offer up something of value. Half of your repost I just ignore since they become never ending back and forths.

I am confused how you point out the getboosted made so much hp on the stock 630 base file at 25psi but now when I run the exact same file its not making hp. I think our turbos are fairly similiar as well. It was not my point to run 25+psi but when it happened it felt good. Great actually but I am realistic and its my intention to keep it within range so this motor will last till my 2.0 is finished.

These motors are weird. I have seen posts where members have made 350whp and never had a single issue from their stock motor. I have seen people run less then 250whp and have busted blocks. Its confusing. It seems like torque is what kills them and is a more common denominator then hp itself.

Poopie the slight knock has been there even when I datalogged my K04 with pc16. It happens around 4800-5200 and its very brief but it seems to have been there for atleast the last 4,000 miles. I would not be surprised if my rods are toast.

I don't know, maybe because Gotboosted was running 93 octane fuel with Meth injection and you are running a mix of 91/87? Yeah I know what the hell was I thinking about, octane has no effect on adv timing. lol

catbed
08-13-2013, 09:55 AM
Mike you need to calm down. There was nothing malicious about my post. I was genuinely missing your point which is understandable. You obviously have a great deal to contribute but honestly a lot of your posts seem more like attempts to discredit other members then offer up something of value. Half of your repost I just ignore since they become never ending back and forths.

I am confused how you point out the getboosted made so much hp on the stock 630 base file at 25psi but now when I run the exact same file its not making hp. I think our turbos are fairly similiar as well. It was not my point to run 25+psi but when it happened it felt good. Great actually but I am realistic and its my intention to keep it within range so this motor will last till my 2.0 is finished.

These motors are weird. I have seen posts where members have made 350whp and never had a single issue from their stock motor. I have seen people run less then 250whp and have busted blocks. Its confusing. It seems like torque is what kills them and is a more common denominator then hp itself.

Poopie the slight knock has been there even when I datalogged my K04 with pc16. It happens around 4800-5200 and its very brief but it seems to have been there for atleast the last 4,000 miles. I would not be surprised if my rods are toast.

You're running 87 octane. That is reason enough you didn't make 400 HP. These motors aren't weird, they are designed for FI with higher octane.

Like mike says, boost doesn't mean shit without appropriate timing.

zandrew
08-13-2013, 11:39 AM
I never said it made 400 but it seems like the assumption is I am making 200hp. It felt petty nice and being accustomed to running it at 15psi and my 2871 at 16-18psi it felt like a thoroughbred compared to work horse. I was running a mix of 87 and 91 not straight 87. Still I am running the same tune and on the log it did not pull timing. The tune can not tell if I am running 87 or 93.

Seerlah
08-13-2013, 02:40 PM
These motors are weird. I have seen posts where members have made 350whp and never had a single issue from their stock motor. I have seen people run less then 250whp and have busted blocks. Its confusing. It seems like torque is what kills them and is a more common denominator then hp itself.


Not a common denominator, more like common knowledge when it comes to the VAG 1.8T. And you should know tuning is the most crucial part of a setup. There are plenty who run 300whp on the stock block all day long. There are also others who have made more. But tuning is key, and what allows them to do this. Would I do that personally? Nope. But it is done all the time.

Poopie
08-13-2013, 03:26 PM
You said it was knocking. If its knocking and you aren't pulling timing, something is suspect. What advance is the ecu requesting? The ecu doesnt adjust per parameters/ but for conditions. Running 87 mix changes the conditions. I'm sure it felt fast with more boost, but hopefully your ecu or tune is pulling timing to prevent pre detonation. It's actually a BAD sign if you pull 0 timing.

runvsofme07
08-13-2013, 04:56 PM
Mike, I was just guesstimating off the fact that he is running a maestro 630cc file which WILL do 400 chp, We cant speak on his timing since none of us saw logs from that initial boost spike run.. but the 630s can dump enough fuel..

catbed
08-14-2013, 05:32 AM
You said it was knocking. If its knocking and you aren't pulling timing, something is suspect. What advance is the ecu requesting? The ecu doesnt adjust per parameters/ but for conditions. Running 87 mix changes the conditions. I'm sure it felt fast with more boost, but hopefully your ecu or tune is pulling timing to prevent pre detonation. It's actually a BAD sign if you pull 0 timing.

If there is knocking, the ECU retards timing. Unless you specify it to not pull timing, which is just stupid.

M-Hood
08-14-2013, 07:20 AM
I never said it made 400 but it seems like the assumption is I am making 200hp. It felt petty nice and being accustomed to running it at 15psi and my 2871 at 16-18psi it felt like a thoroughbred compared to work horse. I was running a mix of 87 and 91 not straight 87. Still I am running the same tune and on the log it did not pull timing. The tune can not tell if I am running 87 or 93.

Do you know how much of a difference there is between 87, 91 and 93 octane? I have seen a 2.0 stroker with cams and a GT30r tuned on CA 91, 93 mix and straight 100. The power gain jump from CA 91 to 93 was much larger then the jump from 93 to 100. If your tune isn't pulling timing while running that 87/91 mix then that tune has no timing to start with.

Caffeinated
08-14-2013, 07:59 AM
Do you know how much of a difference there is between 87, 91 and 93 octane? I have seen a 2.0 stroker with cams and a GT30r tuned on CA 91, 93 mix and straight 100. The power gain jump from CA 91 to 93 was much larger then the jump from 93 to 100. If your tune isn't pulling timing while running that 87/91 mix then that tune has no timing to start with.

Yep. 93 octane is closer to 100 octane than California 91 octane is to 93 octane. It's that big of a difference. For example, take a setup that can make 475whp on Cali 91 octane @ 20psi, where it literally just can't make more power with more boost (5psi for 10whp more power, not worth it), just won't take more timing. That same exact physical setup could make about +530whp on 93 octane since not only could it handle more timing, it can therefore handle more boost. In fact in my experience it's worth even more than that, especially when you get up in power. Far less of a difference on something like a K04 of course.

At least 87 octane on the East Coast is almost as good as Cali 91 octane.

Regardless, I'm confused with how you knew 91 or 93 wasn't available but you still wanted to push your current setup to 16psi? We all want to experience our cars with power, but perhaps a lesson was learned to be more patient in the future?

I would do a leakdown versus a compression test, it's far more definitive.

zandrew
08-14-2013, 09:39 AM
Yep. 93 octane is closer to 100 octane than California 91 octane is to 93 octane. It's that big of a difference. For example, take a setup that can make 475whp on Cali 91 octane @ 20psi, where it literally just can't make more power with more boost (5psi for 10whp more power, not worth it), just won't take more timing. That same exact physical setup could make about +530whp on 93 octane since not only could it handle more timing, it can therefore handle more boost. In fact in my experience it's worth even more than that, especially when you get up in power. Far less of a difference on something like a K04 of course.

At least 87 octane on the East Coast is almost as good as Cali 91 octane.

Regardless, I'm confused with how you knew 91 or 93 wasn't available but you still wanted to push your current setup to 16psi? We all want to experience our cars with power, but perhaps a lesson was learned to be more patient in the future?

I would do a leakdown versus a compression test, it's far more definitive.

I have had the setup on my car for about a month now and I have always run the car with 91. Unless you missed my above post I had one option for fuel when I filled up and it was 87 so I ended up with a half a tank of 87 and half 91 which I doubt very very seriously hurt anything at the psi I have been running. I hooked my ebc up to see if it resolved a flat spot which it did. I never expierenced the flat spot with the 2871 but I have been with the 5552.

How did I know 91 and 89 was not availible. Well I don't know how they do it on the west coast but here they take a bag and wrap it around the pump handle that denotes they are out of that octane. I live in a sparsely populated area that the populaton has increased about 10x to 12x so gas can be hard to get. I only shell or get gas from Kroger which is Shell gas. The first 3 gas stations I stopped at all had 87 and the last also only had 87. You take what is offered. Seriously if you farted more people wuld smell it then live in my county.

Mike I understand what you are saying but what I am trying to point out is that I am running the same tune as others. It is now just a straight base 630 and I swapped back to 4bar FPR which has given me some startup issues. Also I did not run the RPM's above 5500 so I don't know if that would have effeted the timing pull or not. I will run the car again at 16psi and datalog it and post the log if I can figure out how to post the logs. What blocks do you want me to log? I am sure the car will handle more timing.

M-Hood
08-14-2013, 01:53 PM
Ok so what was the point of asking people how much power they thing you are making if you were running low then normal octane and not going past 5500 rpm? At that rpm you are nowhere near were the car will make its peak hp.

Maestro lets you log a bunch of blocks, you want to log things like rpm, actual timing, timing pull and AFR.

zandrew
08-14-2013, 02:29 PM
Whats the point of modifying a car in the fashion that pleases you? Hmmm my guess is to make hp. Same thought process I have so yes I do wonder what people think the car could make wih my mods at 25psi on this turbo. I do have eventual goals that I would like to get close too that I personally feel are doable.

Once I figure this out I will run a log. I have only ever seen knock on cylinder 3 from all the times I have ran the datalog.

ddillenger
08-14-2013, 02:57 PM
If your tune wasn't pulling timing when you had your sludge ass mix in it, then it's not requesting enough to begin with.

87 has no business in a stock forced induction engine, let alone a heavily modified one.

aysix
08-14-2013, 03:03 PM
At least 87 octane on the East Coast is almost as good as Cali 91 octane.
I would do a leakdown versus a compression test, it's far more definitive.

How does Cali 87 octane compete with the 91 Cali octane thats almost as good as east coast 87?

M-Hood
08-14-2013, 03:24 PM
Whats the point of modifying a car in the fashion that pleases you? Hmmm my guess is to make hp. Same thought process I have so yes I do wonder what people think the car could make wih my mods at 25psi on this turbo. I do have eventual goals that I would like to get close too that I personally feel are doable.

Once I figure this out I will run a log. I have only ever seen knock on cylinder 3 from all the times I have ran the datalog.

What do I have to do with it? Nothing and you seemed to have missed my point which is why in the world would you ask someone how much power your car makes at 5500 rpm. Does your car redline at 5500 and is your turbo even at peak flow at 5500 rpm? No so the question is pretty pointless.

Seerlah
08-14-2013, 03:36 PM
WTF is this section becoming?!?!? haha

zandrew
08-14-2013, 03:53 PM
What do I have to do with it? Nothing and you seemed to have missed my point which is why in the world would you ask someone how much power your car makes at 5500 rpm. Does your car redline at 5500 and is your turbo even at peak flow at 5500 rpm? No so the question is pretty pointless.

Whats pointless is how you nit pick the absolute fuck out of the sillyest fucking shit. How old are you, seriously? It does not seem no matter what I post you will nit pick it to death. I posted that my Comp turbo used NPT fittings and you went off about metric this and that when I refereced my car and my setup.

I suggested an FT for anyone wanting to make 250awhp which you seem to recommend all the time and then it turns into a pissing match about what makes what and my entire point was completely missed which was at that price I would swap it in and be done since it should get you close to your goal and cost far less then a BT setup plus its damn easy to install. I can go on and on about lil retarded shit you nit pick but I am sure the point is made.

You will find one teeny tiny thing and try to discredit people for what reason I have no clue. Your opinion does not have to superor for you to sell something. Seriously man I just don't get you and if you are too stupid to realize I was asking what people thought I was making for shits and giggles then you need help.

M-Hood
08-14-2013, 05:31 PM
Nit pick? Your the smart one that asked the dumb question and you call me stupid. lol

This is your reply about the fittings and sorry but that isn't stating your setup but talking about "ALL" comp turbos which is right there in the sentence.

too my knowledge all there ports wether oil or coolant are NPT.

I then corrected you with the info I had already posted further up in that thread, maybe next time you should actually read the other replies before you say something you can't back up with actually hard evidence. Just because you have owned 1 Comp Turbo for a few months doesn't exactly make you an expert on their product line, actually far from it.

Yes I recommended the FT, but I don't blow smoke up someones skirt telling them it will make more power then actually will or what others have made with it.


So are you going to be able to take your panties out of your butt now?

zandrew
08-14-2013, 06:07 PM
For the turbo I own which is a triplex. Prime example of Nit Picking Mike. Here is th entire post:

My comp uses 3/8 NPT coolant port. Its a CT3 frame and too my knowledge all there ports wether oil or coolant are NPT. I actually goofed up and assumed the coolant ports on mine were the same as T3 and bought the wrong parts for it.

Do I need to underline "my" at the begining of that post. Consequently if what you post applies to me then I am guessing Comp is not an expert on their own product since that is what is listed specifically on their website which I know you know since I DID read your replies. I did not blow smoke up anyone skirt. I simply said that it if you wanted 250AWHP I would throw in a FT and max it out since it would get you close, cheap but proven setup, and easy to install. No where did I say its going to make 250AWHP but it does look possible especially with some race gas.

Also this is not my first Comp turbo. It is my first BB turbo by them. I have had several of their older turbos which people abused and blew and I rebuilt them and sold them.

My panties are not in my ass.

Poopie
08-14-2013, 06:13 PM
Zandrew, you need to let it go. You constantly rehash things from other threads. You are your worst enemy here. Stop crying. No one was attacking you here.

gmx
08-14-2013, 08:22 PM
Pretty sure cyl3 is usually the first to let go.

zandrew
08-14-2013, 09:34 PM
The knock on cylinder 3 is so minute that the tune does not pull timing for it. I am going to run a datalog and post it.

GMX do you know any specific examples? Not that I don't believe you but I would like to see some specifics about it and what the circumstances were specifically.

Poopie
08-14-2013, 10:10 PM
Timing pull is a correctional value. If you aren't pulling any timing, then your requested value is low, hence you aren't making as much power as you could. If you are knocking with not much timing advance, then you cannot afford more timing anyway. The motronics ecu will pull timing in 3 degree increments until the knock goes away. I suspect your motor is not 100%. You should also make sure you knock sensors are ok and properly torqued.

ddillenger
08-14-2013, 10:49 PM
Timing pull is a correctional value. If you aren't pulling any timing, then your requested value is low, hence you aren't making as much power as you could. If you are knocking with not much timing advance, then you cannot afford more timing anyway. The motronics ecu will pull timing in 3 degree increments until the knock goes away. I suspect your motor is not 100%. You should also make sure you knock sensors are ok and properly torqued.

I agree with all of this, but the amount of timing retard is relevant to the file. For instance, 2.7's pull 1.5 degrees per knock event.

Poopie
08-14-2013, 11:05 PM
I agree with all of this, but the amount of timing retard is relevant to the file. For instance, 2.7's pull 1.5 degrees per knock event.

Hmm you may be right. I could be remembering it wrong. It's a multiple of .75.

I also believe the ecu corrects knock and pulls timing not based on absolute knock voltage, but the delta from the base knock voltage.

ddillenger
08-14-2013, 11:43 PM
3 is correct in most 1.8 files. I was just making a point that it's user adjustable and different between flashes.