AWE Tuning Exhaust for B8 S4 - My Review

[SteveYem]

This thread will serve as my comprehensive (and ongoing) review of the AWE Tuning exhaust system installed on my 2012 S4 6MT. I started a different thread ~3 weeks ago to spark some discussion about any negative aspects of the exhaust system (which was very helpful in my decision ultimately to purchase it), but I did not want my actual post-purchase review to get buried in there.

I just installed it this past weekend, and I do not have any sound clips yet.....I'm sure 75% of you just clicked the 'back' button.
But, sound clips will come once I can make some time and find a good location to capture them in a way that is as useful as possible for prospective buyers.

This will be a bit of a brain dump, but my intent is to touch on my entire experience, from purchasing to installing to driving.

Purchasing:
I bought it from Alex at TAG Motorsports and had a very pleasant experience. The system was not in stock at TAG and had to be made-to-order by AWE, so he quoted me a delivery date, and it was actually ready on the quoted date. In my experience buying aftermarket car parts, this is very rare. Kudos to AWE for holding themselves to a production schedule, and to Alex for having a clear line of communication with the manufacturer and the consumer. It made me feel like they actually valued the $$$$ I was spending on the system.
I ended up driving to AWE to pick up the system in person (I live ~30 miles from there), because it was ready on Thursday and I wanted to be sure I could install it that weekend. Will@AWE was very accommodating and helped me load the system into my car and answered some questions I had regarding the install. AWE is running a first-class operation and it's pretty neat to look at all the nice products (re: R8 exhaust that was sitting on the shelf next to mine) being made right here in the USA.
A nice touch, although not that important, was the sticker on one of the tubes that showed my name and order number, since the system was built to order specifically for me.

First Impressions - Packaging, Materials, Workmanship
Since I picked up the system in person, AWE did not bother packaging it in a box. I actually appreciated this....I'm honestly a pretty 'green' thinker when it comes to misuse of resources. (Gasoline is one of the few exceptions I make : )
The hardware and clamps came in nicely sealed plastic bags, along with two bags containing printed copies of the installation manual and a couple of Blow Pops, which was a nice touch but unfortunately wasn't going to mix well with the lite beer I consumed while installing the system.

I ordered the full resonated system, photo below laid out on my living room floor. The bodies of the main components (resonated downpipes, middle muffler and rear resonators) are made from polished stainless steel, and the middle muffler has a nice AWE Tuning badge welded to the bottom. The tubing is stainless steel but not polished. I was torn on this, because all of the less expensive "JDM" exhaust systems I've bought for my other cars in the past were polished stainless and I understood that to be the norm. But there is something nice about having non-polished tubes, because the sections that are visible from low angles behind the car are not flashy at all.
The tips appear to be very high quality. The finish is very smooth and I imagine will be easy to keep clean as long as I give them a good wipe every couple of weeks. We shall see.
The tube clamps are high quality and very easy to work with.

http://i.imgur.com/JAGYU7z.jpg


Installation
Blanket comment: Read the instructions 2, maybe 3 times before getting under the car to do this installation. There are some tips in there that will save you a bunch of time trying to get everything lined up properly. I did the install in my driveway with the rear wheels up on ramps, so there was a lot of crawl under, adjust, crawl out, inspect, crawl under, re-adjust, repeat...going on.

First was removal of the stock system. I elected to leave the stock downpipes in place (for now at least) because a) I want to see how I like it with the stock downpipes, and b) all reports are that the downpipes are enough of a PITA to remove that I'd be better off paying a shop to do it. I'll heed that advice.
The stock system is one piece from the downpipes back. I loosened the clamps at the stock downpipes, then disconnected the middle muffler from its rubber hangers, and then disconnected the rear mufflers from their hangers.
The next part is to pull/slide the exhaust out of the stock downpipes. My suggestion: put something underneath the ends of the stock downpipes to support their weight once the rear section of the exhaust is removed. I failed to do so, and when I pulled hard enough to yank the rear section free of the downpipes, the ends immediately slammed down to the driveway. I was surprised at how flexible the stock downpipe flex joints are....seemed too flexible, actually, and I was afraid that I had broken them. So far, though, I don't hear any unusual sounds or smell anything weird that would indicate a problem.

Side note: Buy yourself one of these little miracles before tackling any exhaust removal/installation. It will save you all sorts of grief:
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Lisle-38350-Exhaust-Plier-Pipe-Hanger-Tool-/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/SugAAMXQDrJRzKtK/$(KGrHqZ,!lwFH!66JrMIBRzKtKZ6vQ~~60_35.JPG

The rough installation process is pretty straight forward. It's nice that the AWE system comes in so many "small" pieces since that makes it physically easier to hold up and install each component. I applied some of the supplied Permatex muffler sealant cement to each slip joint and fit the components together. Give some thought to how you want your tube clamps oriented when it's all installed, because you won't be able to change it later without disconnecting the tubes and that will make you angry. During my rough fit-up process I tightened the clamps to be "hand-tight", meaning tight enough to hold itself in place but loose enough to allow rotation at the joints for alignment.

I spent way too much time trying to align the rear mufflers/tips and still don't have it 100% right. I think I may have overlooked a few things and when I have time I plan to get back under the car, loosen all of the clamps and the cross-brace between the rear tubes and take another stab at it.

I ran into a problem with the muffler tips. Specifically, I broke (sheared) two (2) of the supplied screws when trying to tighten them sufficiently to keep the tip from moving on the outlet tube. The problem was that the amount of torque necessary to squeeze the split section of the tip together exceeded the strength of the screw. The fact that the nuts are interference thread-type locking nuts added to the net torque I was putting through the screw. IMO, a standard nut with a lockwasher would have been easier to work with and would serve the purpose. But getting back to the point: after shearing two of the screws, I realized it would be a good idea to use my channel locks to squeeze the two flanges of the tip together to "close the gap" as much as possible before attempting to secure them with the provided screws. That way I was not relying on the strength of the screw to squeeze the split collar section of the tip more than it really had to.
I had some appropriately sized hardware that I was able to use in place of the broken screws, but ultimately I will replace it with the proper hardware.

Speaking of muffler tip mounting: A constructive criticism of the design would be to have designated Left (Driver) Side and Right (Passenger) Side tips, two of each supplied with the system. The difference would be that the Left (Driver) Side tips are a mirror image of the existing tips. This would put the securing hardware pointing toward the inside of the car, which IMO does a better job of obscuring/hiding it. I understand that for cost purposes this may not be the most viable option.

Here is how it sits after my last round of rear muffler adjustments:
http://i.imgur.com/5VJ4itV.jpg


Driving Impressions
The tone is throaty, exotic, somewhat raw and burbly. Sometimes it is reminiscent of the Nissan/Infiniti VQ35 tone. The tone changes throughout the rev range. It drones/booms a lot when driving at low speeds and modulating the throttle and clutch, like when backing out of a parking space for example. This goes away when you get above 1500 RPM or so.
It can be a little loud when the engine loads up while cruising, for example climbing a hill at a constant 45 mph in 4th gear, to the point where I need to turn my stereo up louder to avoid drowning out Howard, Robin and Fred. Then when I get to the flat after the hill I'm relieved that the exhaust noise has dissipated. I have read that the exhaust quiets down a bit after 800-1000 miles when the inner surfaces have a good coating of carbon on them, so I will report back at that time.
The exhaust tone makes the car a lot more fun to drive. At first I almost felt like I lost torque, but I think it's because I was so used to how quiet the car is at heavy throttle application that subconsciously I was holding back, I guess for fear of making too much noise. I don't know if that makes any sense. But losing torque makes even less sense.
I have yet to do an extended highway drive (windows up, 75-80 mph, 6th gear) but will post my impressions when I get the opportunity. I will likely wait at least the 1000 miles to make a determination on whether or not to install the resonated downpipes, but for now I am enjoying the noise that comes out of the current arrangement.

EDIT: Almost forgot to include this - Now when I shift 1-2, 2-3 and occasionally 3-4, I get the exhaust "fart" (or some diminished version of it) that the DSG guys get. It's like a little pop/afterfire sound. Is this normal for this system on a 6MT car? Anyone know what it is in the system that causes this? I don't mind it....it's kind of fun, actually. I'm just curious about it.

[Josh/AWE]

Nice write-up Steve! Don't be afraid to bury your foot in it, the system really sounds even better at full throttle.

[staticuxo]

Nice write-up Steve! Don't be afraid to bury your foot in it, the system really sounds even better at full throttle.

This.

also, i'm just curious, but are your tips 90mm? for some reason, they appear larger than mine.

[SteveYem]

This.

also, i'm just curious, but are your tips 90mm? for some reason, they appear larger than mine.

I'm not sure, but I will measure them and report back. It might just be the low angle of the photo, coupled with the distorted fisheye effect my stupid iPhone likes to do sometimes.

[AKPS4]

I think the tips are the newer or updated style. I have the larger tips too. A few people at waterfest commented and said i have the "newer"style tips... I didnt know this and glad i have them.

I also have the slight gargle sound when shifting gears just like you mention. The faster you shift the less you hear it, but its still there. Not that big a deal and not nearly as bad as the DSG guys so im not worried about it.

[staticuxo]

I'm not sure, but I will measure them and report back. It might just be the low angle of the photo, coupled with the distorted fisheye effect my stupid iPhone likes to do sometimes.

makes sense. i did hear some rumors of larger AWE tips though, so i wasn't sure d:

enjoy your AWE [up]

[Alex@TAG]

Purchasing:
I bought it from Alex at TAG Motorsports and had a very pleasant experience. The system was not in stock at TAG and had to be made-to-order by AWE, so he quoted me a delivery date, and it was actually ready on the quoted date. In my experience buying aftermarket car parts, this is very rare. Kudos to AWE for holding themselves to a production schedule, and to Alex for having a clear line of communication with the manufacturer and the consumer. It made me feel like they actually valued the $$$$ I was spending on the system.
I ended up driving to AWE to pick up the system in person (I live ~30 miles from there), because it was ready on Thursday and I wanted to be sure I could install it that weekend. Will@AWE was very accommodating and helped me load the system into my car and answered some questions I had regarding the install. AWE is running a first-class operation and it's pretty neat to look at all the nice products (re: R8 exhaust that was sitting on the shelf next to mine) being made right here in the USA.
A nice touch, although not that important, was the sticker on one of the tubes that showed my name and order number, since the system was built to order specifically for me.

Steve,

Im glad your happy with the system. AWE and TAG Both really put a lot of time effort and energy into making sure that you really are getting the most for your hard earned dollar :)

If you have a chance, go ahead and get your car back on the lift after 500-1000 miles and make sure you have no leaks or issues down there - just as a precautionary measure.

[LakeShow]

Congrats Steve!! Glad to hear your enjoying it, see if you can get a video up whenever you get a chance. I placed my order for the same setup with Stock DP's with Alex at Tag just a couple a weeks ago and can't wait to receive it!! Enjoy it mate.

[TorsenForcin]

Thanks for that well done write up. It will be very helpful when my install time arrives. I look forward to hearing your thoughts as time progresses and video becomes available.
I can imagine a grin on your face as you were describing your impressions of the exhaust!

[RavinJetta]

Nice write-up. I have about 1000 miles on my AWE system from TAG and it has definitely quieted down a bit. Sounds great still with the stock dps.

[saxon]

Wouldn't have been cheaper just purchasing it straight through awe?

Very nice write up btw

[SteveYem]

Here are some sound clips I grabbed tonight while out for drive. All done with windows down, hence the wind noise (sorry about that), and recorded with my iPhone laying on the passenger seat. None of these were WOT pulls...maybe ~80% throttle at most, because I was driving through mostly 45-60 MPH zones. I will get better sound clips with a proper camera once I can coerce the fiancee to come along and operate the camera for me:

Starting up:
http://youtu.be/u0Nuxp-t9cM

Driving around (sorry for the poor quality - I recommend using headphones):
http://youtu.be/VPfWhPaxTY4

http://youtu.be/sDAikuLMj6s

http://youtu.be/MpJg-84s6Jw

http://youtu.be/eNw6FlXjsjM

[IvIonsteI2]

Sounds good man, i think awe exhaust might be my next step before a tune..

[SteveYem]

Had to drive to work this morning with the windows up due to the rain, and my feeling is that the exhaust sound in the cabin is too loud. My commute is "suburban" driving, i.e. some open road cruising and some traffic light stop-and-go, including a ~7% grade hill to climb. I found myself trying to feather the throttle and keep the engine around 2k RPM just to keep the volume down.

Again, I am hoping/expecting the sound level will decrease somewhat after the noted 800-1000 mile period, but I thought I would add my observations at this time just as a reference point.

Yesterday, when the weather was nice, I drove with my windows down and really enjoyed the tone and volume of the exhaust. Today, when I was trapped in the cabin with the windows up, it wasn't nearly as enjoyable. Funny how that works. But it's an important point since most of the ~3.5 months of winter will be spent with the windows up. Although maybe this winter I'll do windows cracked with heat blasting : )

[MrFunk]

This.

also, i'm just curious, but are your tips 90mm? for some reason, they appear larger than mine.

They did come out with new nicer tips not too long ago.

[millerrh]

Had to drive to work this morning with the windows up due to the rain, and my feeling is that the exhaust sound in the cabin is too loud. My commute is "suburban" driving, i.e. some open road cruising and some traffic light stop-and-go, including a ~7% grade hill to climb. I found myself trying to feather the throttle and keep the engine around 2k RPM just to keep the volume down.

Again, I am hoping/expecting the sound level will decrease somewhat after the noted 800-1000 mile period, but I thought I would add my observations at this time just as a reference point.

Yesterday, when the weather was nice, I drove with my windows down and really enjoyed the tone and volume of the exhaust. Today, when I was trapped in the cabin with the windows up, it wasn't nearly as enjoyable. Funny how that works. But it's an important point since most of the ~3.5 months of winter will be spent with the windows up. Although maybe this winter I'll do windows cracked with heat blasting : )

Time to put those resonators on! [wrench]

[UltraS4John]

Excellent post SteveYem! Thanks for sharing your insight on the AWE exhaust...I need to purchase mine soon.

[SwankPeRFection]

Why is it that you don't see a lot of exhausts for this platform that have properly bolted fittings as opposed to the cheaper and easier to produce compression couplings? Seems that for the thousands of dollars that these products cost, proper bolted/gasketed flanges to couple the exhaust pieces together would keep users from having to check from time to time to make sure their exhaust hasn't come apart and is causing a leak somewhere. Every other exhaust I've had on every other vehicle have been flanged and never had any issues with fit/clearance/leaks.

[SteveYem]

Why is it that you don't see a lot of exhausts for this platform that have properly bolted fittings as opposed to the cheaper and easier to produce compression couplings? Seems that for the thousands of dollars that these products cost, proper bolted/gasketed flanges to couple the exhaust pieces together would keep users from having to check from time to time to make sure their exhaust hasn't come apart and is causing a leak somewhere. Every other exhaust I've had on every other vehicle have been flanged and never had any issues with fit/clearance/leaks.

I brought this up in my other thread. Todd@AWE brought up a valid point which is that gaskets can deteriorate over time, so that problem is eliminated with clamped slip fits. After spending many hours now under the car (I'm a little anal retentive about getting the rear mufflers aligned perfectly), I can say that the slip fit between the tubes is a very close fit, and does not require a lot of squeeze from the clamps to secure the tubes together. So it's really just another way to skin the cat, I think. What I do wish is that there was a more clear-cut way to align everything. As it is, it's a bit open to the installer's interpretation and can have many different outcomes. In that respect I am glad I did it myself because I have a feeling I would have been in there readjusting whatever the shop would have done anyway.

[B8_Jim]

What I do wish is that there was a more clear-cut way to align everything. As it is, it's a bit open to the installer's interpretation and can have many different outcomes. In that respect I am glad I did it myself because I have a feeling I would have been in there readjusting whatever the shop would have done anyway.

I had the same thought on my A4 2.0T exhaust. With all the degrees of freedom (overlap at each slip joint, rotation at multiple joints, etc) I had a hard time knowing exactly what to turn/pull/push to get the desired result - some adjustments that seemed to fix one side would make the other worse. Like you - I'm sure doing this laying on your back in the garage under the car on jack stands without a ton of room to work didn't help. Sounds like the S4 system might be similar.

Thanks for the reviews/impressions - please keep us updated...

[SwankPeRFection]

I brought this up in my other thread. Todd@AWE brought up a valid point which is that gaskets can deteriorate over time, so that problem is eliminated with clamped slip fits. After spending many hours now under the car (I'm a little anal retentive about getting the rear mufflers aligned perfectly), I can say that the slip fit between the tubes is a very close fit, and does not require a lot of squeeze from the clamps to secure the tubes together. So it's really just another way to skin the cat, I think. What I do wish is that there was a more clear-cut way to align everything. As it is, it's a bit open to the installer's interpretation and can have many different outcomes. In that respect I am glad I did it myself because I have a feeling I would have been in there readjusting whatever the shop would have done anyway.

And that right there is the biggest problem with these type of couplings. Alignment.... It's a pain in the ass to do. Also, the excuse that gaskets can disintegrate. Never had this issue with any other aftermarket or OE exhaust that had proper metal gaskets installed. Ya, if you do the silly old school paper ones it might happen if they constantly get wet, but the newer all metal ones that mold to the flange once coupled are awesome... very nice seal and you don't have to spend hours under the car trying to make everything straight using a lift and exhaust holders or other means to get everything perfect before you tighten everything up. Sure, it's not necessary, but it won't be perfect otherwise.

[SteveYem]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't know what to tell ya. I hate to say "it is what it is" but, well...

[SwankPeRFection]

I hear what you're saying, but I don't know what to tell ya. I hate to say "it is what it is" but, well...

No, I understand where you're coming from on this. I'm just saying that it is much easier to make an exhaust with less welding and making them with these fittings instead of flanged/welded ones allows for much larger margins in sale vs build time. Either way, it's never been my opinion that Audi aftermarket exhausts were made to an amazing standard. The Audi aftermarket is such a small niche in the US that a lot of these manufacturers will sell you whatever they want and package it with a technical viewpoint and the owners just swallow it and pay 2 times as much for the product. I guess that's the point I was trying to make. If I'm going to pay out for a nice exhaust, at least sell me a product that doesn't use the same type of coupling technique a regular muffler shop would use. Maybe the Jap car market/aftermarket manufacturers have ruined my view on what a proper all stainless steel exhaust really is. [rolleyes] I shouldn't expect anything less than that from the German side of things.

Either way, don't let me deflate your happiness with your exhaust, that's not my intention. I'm glad you like it and I think it looks good from the back.

[handruin]

Had to drive to work this morning with the windows up due to the rain, and my feeling is that the exhaust sound in the cabin is too loud. My commute is "suburban" driving, i.e. some open road cruising and some traffic light stop-and-go, including a ~7% grade hill to climb. I found myself trying to feather the throttle and keep the engine around 2k RPM just to keep the volume down.

Again, I am hoping/expecting the sound level will decrease somewhat after the noted 800-1000 mile period, but I thought I would add my observations at this time just as a reference point.

Yesterday, when the weather was nice, I drove with my windows down and really enjoyed the tone and volume of the exhaust. Today, when I was trapped in the cabin with the windows up, it wasn't nearly as enjoyable. Funny how that works. But it's an important point since most of the ~3.5 months of winter will be spent with the windows up. Although maybe this winter I'll do windows cracked with heat blasting : )

I felt very similar to you when I got my AWE exhaust installed. I was very aware of how loud it sounded and felt self-conscious. That went away after a few weeks. I no longer feel like it is too loud and have no issue leaving a friends house late at night with worries of waking anyone. Give it some time. Either you'll get used to it or it will quiet down from carbon buildup. :-) I love driving with the windows open.

[Todd/AWE]

Had to drive to work this morning with the windows up due to the rain, and my feeling is that the exhaust sound in the cabin is too loud. My commute is "suburban" driving, i.e. some open road cruising and some traffic light stop-and-go, including a ~7% grade hill to climb. I found myself trying to feather the throttle and keep the engine around 2k RPM just to keep the volume down.

Again, I am hoping/expecting the sound level will decrease somewhat after the noted 800-1000 mile period, but I thought I would add my observations at this time just as a reference point.

Yesterday, when the weather was nice, I drove with my windows down and really enjoyed the tone and volume of the exhaust. Today, when I was trapped in the cabin with the windows up, it wasn't nearly as enjoyable. Funny how that works. But it's an important point since most of the ~3.5 months of winter will be spent with the windows up. Although maybe this winter I'll do windows cracked with heat blasting : )

Hold onto the AWE Tuning resonated downpipes you also bought, you may end up installing them. Even though the system will quiet down some after 800-1000 miles, with the OE downpipes you will still hear the exhaust at part throttle. It won't drone, but it will always be there. If you want to get rid of that characteristic, our resonated downpipes are the trick.

And our special downpipe nut removal tool makes the job DIY, if you wanted to go there.

http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/w/awe_b8_30t_dp_tool_1280_1.jpg

http://www.awe-tuning.com/a-w-e-tuning-b8-s4-exhaust-system

[SteveYem]

No, I understand where you're coming from on this. I'm just saying that it is much easier to make an exhaust with less welding and making them with these fittings instead of flanged/welded ones allows for much larger margins in sale vs build time. Either way, it's never been my opinion that Audi aftermarket exhausts were made to an amazing standard. The Audi aftermarket is such a small niche in the US that a lot of these manufacturers will sell you whatever they want and package it with a technical viewpoint and the owners just swallow it and pay 2 times as much for the product. I guess that's the point I was trying to make. If I'm going to pay out for a nice exhaust, at least sell me a product that doesn't use the same type of coupling technique a regular muffler shop would use. Maybe the Jap car market/aftermarket manufacturers have ruined my view on what a proper all stainless steel exhaust really is. [rolleyes] I shouldn't expect anything less than that from the German side of things.

Either way, don't let me deflate your happiness with your exhaust, that's not my intention. I'm glad you like it and I think it looks good from the back.

I can't say I disagree with you. My reference point is also Japanese aftermarket exhausts. Specifically I am thinking of the Invidia Gemini true-dual system that I installed last year on my 350z (image here for reference: http://www.jscspeed.com/images/catalog/category3827_thumb_full.jpg)
I inspected it thoroughly upon receipt and determined that it is easily the most nicely crafted exhaust system I have personally encountered in my ~10 years modifying cars. The welds were superb, the polished stainless steel appears to be of high quality, and fitment (except for one design flaw which Invidia remedied later) is spot-on. The system has two flex joints, two mid-mounted resonators, an x-pipe, two rear resonators and two rolled Ti tips. And it only cost me $890.

The "muffler shop" grade tubing that is included with the AWE system did throw me off a bit. What makes me feel OK about it is that AWE warrants the workmanship of their product for the period of my ownership, so I suppose if any part of it rusts or otherwise degrades under normal use then AWE would make it right.

I think there is some economy of scale happening here, in addition to charging what the market will bear. For the former, I'll bet Invidia cranks out 5-10x the Gemini True-dual systems than does AWE their B8 S4 system, and therefore their costs are significantly reduced. And for the latter, Invidia is selling exhaust systems to people with a $30-35k car vs. AWE selling to people with a $50-60k car. We all keep paying for it, so they'll keep asking for it.

I, too, enjoy how this exhaust looks. Photos didn't do it justice. For me, it's as much of a visual/aesthetic mod as it is for sound. The rear end of my B8 is now "complete".



I felt very similar to you when I got my AWE exhaust installed. I was very aware of how loud it sounded and felt self-conscious. That went away after a few weeks. I no longer feel like it is too loud and have no issue leaving a friends house late at night with worries of waking anyone. Give it some time. Either you'll get used to it or it will quiet down from carbon buildup. :-) I love driving with the windows open.

I'll give it some more time and see how/if it changes. I trust that it will based on all of the reviews I've read.
With the windows down I can hear all of the guttural majesty of the exhaust note, but with the windows up it's more of a mid-range droney sound. Plus with the way these cars seal with all the windows closed, I think the cabin does a good job of being a somewhat unpleasant resonance chamber for the exhaust note.

[SteveYem]

Hold onto the AWE Tuning resonated downpipes you also bought, you may end up installing them. Even though the system will quiet down some after 800-1000 miles, with the OE downpipes you will still hear the exhaust at part throttle. It won't drone, but it will always be there. If you want to get rid of that characteristic, our resonated downpipes are the trick.

And our special downpipe nut removal tool makes the job DIY, if you wanted to go there.

http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/w/awe_b8_30t_dp_tool_1280_1.jpg

http://www.awe-tuning.com/a-w-e-tuning-b8-s4-exhaust-system

Thanks Todd, I appreciate the support.
While I have your attention, I have a question regarding muffler position. Specifically, where I ended up is with the rear muffler hanger posts roughly parallel to the ground, so I am assuming that the horizontal centerline of the muffler (viewed from rear) is also parallel to the ground. (Please correct me if I am wrong).
With the mufflers in this position, measuring directly up from the top of the inner tip to the bottom of the valence cut-out I am at ~15/16", and measuring directly up from the top of the outer tip to the bottom of the valence cut-out I am at ~11/16".

Does this sound right, or should I have the same clearance between the valence and both tips? In order to achieve that, it appears will have to rotate the mufflers so that the hanger post is angled upward toward the center of the car (i.e. rotate the driver side C'CW and rotate the passenger side CW, when viewing the rear of the car). You can reference the photo I posted above for how it currently sits.

[Todd/AWE]

Thanks Todd, I appreciate the support.
While I have your attention, I have a question regarding muffler position. Specifically, where I ended up is with the rear muffler hanger posts roughly parallel to the ground, so I am assuming that the horizontal centerline of the muffler (viewed from rear) is also parallel to the ground. (Please correct me if I am wrong).
With the mufflers in this position, measuring directly up from the top of the inner tip to the bottom of the valence cut-out I am at ~15/16", and measuring directly up from the top of the outer tip to the bottom of the valence cut-out I am at ~11/16".

Does this sound right, or should I have the same clearance between the valence and both tips? In order to achieve that, it appears will have to rotate the mufflers so that the hanger post is angled upward toward the center of the car (i.e. rotate the driver side C'CW and rotate the passenger side CW, when viewing the rear of the car). You can reference the photo I posted above for how it currently sits.

Don't get caught up in fraction of inches measurement, just adjust everything until it looks balanced visually. That's all that matters. Best to do your visual checks at standing eye level, too, as that is where you will be looking from here on out during your ownership, not from on the ground or crouching down.


Oh and:


The "muffler shop" grade tubing that is included with the AWE system did throw me off a bit. What makes me feel OK about it is that AWE warrants the workmanship of their product for the period of my ownership, so I suppose if any part of it rusts or otherwise degrades under normal use then AWE would make it right.

We hardly use "muffler shop" grade tubing, which is indeed where one of the true cost differences comes into play between the volume brands and the premium brands, besides the acoustic engineering R&D spend. We use a 304 grade .065" thick Rath Microweld tube that costs several dollars per ft.

We choose not to polish as it just adds cost with no true value add to the end user. Once it is on the car, polished tubing has no functional or aesthetic value.

[SteveYem]

Don't get caught up in fraction of inches measurement, just adjust everything until it looks balanced visually. That's all that matters. Best to do your visual checks at standing eye level, too, as that is where you will be looking from here on out during your ownership, not from on the ground or crouching down.


Oh and:

We hardly use "muffler shop" grade tubing, which is indeed where one of the true cost differences comes into play between the volume brands and the premium brands, besides the acoustic engineering R&D spend. We use a 304 grade .065" thick Rath Microweld tube that costs several dollars per ft.

We choose not to polish as it just adds cost with no true value add to the end user. Once it is on the car, polished tubing has no functional or aesthetic value.

Understood, and please understand my intent was not to ruffle any feathers. I was more so looking for an explanation / description since at first glance to my untrained eye (I've obviously proven myself to not know what I'm talking about), it does look similar to the steel tubing that muffler shops commonly use. Now looking back at your website I do see that it clearly states T304 as the material type, so that was a miss on my part.

DISCLAIMER: Overall, I am very happy with my purchase.

[SwankPeRFection]

I can't say I disagree with you. My reference point is also Japanese aftermarket exhausts. Specifically I am thinking of the Invidia Gemini true-dual system that I installed last year on my 350z (image here for reference: http://www.jscspeed.com/images/catalog/category3827_thumb_full.jpg)
I inspected it thoroughly upon receipt and determined that it is easily the most nicely crafted exhaust system I have personally encountered in my ~10 years modifying cars. The welds were superb, the polished stainless steel appears to be of high quality, and fitment (except for one design flaw which Invidia remedied later) is spot-on. The system has two flex joints, two mid-mounted resonators, an x-pipe, two rear resonators and two rolled Ti tips. And it only cost me $890.

The "muffler shop" grade tubing that is included with the AWE system did throw me off a bit. What makes me feel OK about it is that AWE warrants the workmanship of their product for the period of my ownership, so I suppose if any part of it rusts or otherwise degrades under normal use then AWE would make it right.

I think there is some economy of scale happening here, in addition to charging what the market will bear. For the former, I'll bet Invidia cranks out 5-10x the Gemini True-dual systems than does AWE their B8 S4 system, and therefore their costs are significantly reduced. And for the latter, Invidia is selling exhaust systems to people with a $30-35k car vs. AWE selling to people with a $50-60k car. We all keep paying for it, so they'll keep asking for it.

I, too, enjoy how this exhaust looks. Photos didn't do it justice. For me, it's as much of a visual/aesthetic mod as it is for sound. The rear end of my B8 is now "complete".


Yep, you get it and that's my point. Regardless of volume and especially that the cost is higher, these exhausts should be better than what the mass produced units are. The fact that they aren't tell me they're made one at a time on a jig in someone's garage, and while I see no issue with this really, these companies should elevate their quality a bit or simply lower their price. High margins for the sake of high margins (regardless of what the vehicle value is in this market) is not good business for the customer... it's simply good business for the business owner's pockets and nothing more.

Then again, maybe it's the whole "Made in America" thing... after all, even the Borla exhaust has the same fittings. I guess they just take the easier/cheaper route to do something.

Again, these are my personal views and one of the reasons why I'm still searching for a nice exhaust to get. The SPM in comparison is somewhat nicer, but the company is pretty much non-existant. [rolleyes]

[Todd/AWE]

Understood, and please understand my intent was not to ruffle any feathers. I was more so looking for an explanation / description since at first glance to my untrained eye (I've obviously proven myself to not know what I'm talking about), it does look similar to the steel tubing that muffler shops commonly use. Now looking back at your website I do see that it clearly states T304 as the material type, so that was a miss on my part.

DISCLAIMER: Overall, I am very happy with my purchase.

No worries, you didn't ruffle feathers. I hope you found your visit and the tour of our manufacturing facility interesting. Enjoy your exhaust in good health!

[YelloJello]

Great detailed review. Looking forward to the update.

Side note @AWE I've constantly been looking at both S4 and S5 forums about exhausts for the 3.0T. I noticed the S5 is a bit more expensive. But most importantly, is there much of a difference when it comes to sound between the 2? I've always assuming its the same, but now thinking reviews could be different because of the cabin shape, exhaust parts locations, etc.

[IceFour]

Curious since im still on the fence about resonated or non resonated im leaning towards playing it safe and getting resonated since I have S Tronic. So my question to you is: How much louder is the resonated setup versus the stock exhaust. I know it sounds like a stupid question but my main concern is if I get the resonated it wont be as loud as I am anticipating.

[SteveYem]

Curious since im still on the fence about resonated or non resonated im leaning towards playing it safe and getting resonated since I have S Tronic. So my question to you is: How much louder is the resonated setup versus the stock exhaust. I know it sounds like a stupid question but my main concern is if I get the resonated it wont be as loud as I am anticipating.

I can't answer definitively because I am still using the stock downpipes, but there is a semi-local guy who also has the 6MT and AWE system but with the resonated DP's installed. Maybe I should get together with him and do an apples to slightly quieter apples comparo and report back.

If what I hear about the S-tronic is true, I would just get the res downpipes.

[IceFour]

My bad I thought I read in your post you had the resonated DPs, I was wrong.

If you do let us know! :)

[SteveYem]

My bad I thought I read in your post you had the resonated DPs, I was wrong.

If you do let us know! :)

Well, you are half right. I did order and receive the resonated DPs, but I have not installed them yet. I'm trying to convince myself that I like it as-is, and then maybe I can sell off the DPs...but the jury is still out on that one.

[chudiddy]

Lmk if u want to meet up

[SteveYem]

Lmk if u want to meet up

Will do. If I can carve out a weekend morning I'll let you know.


Anyone else notice slightly improved fuel efficiency with the AWE exhaust installed? There is a stretch of road I take every day coming home from work where the display shows 26-27 mpg by the time I get to my street, but for the past week since installing the AWE system it is showing 27-28 mpg on the same stretch. I haven't really changed my driving habits, and if anything my foot is a little heavier so I can make noise with the exhaust. I don't think it's placebo because I surely wasn't expecting this as a result. Any thoughts?

[SteveYem]

Some additional observations:
* When going over small, abrupt road imperfections at low speed, I hear a knock/clunk/thud coming from under the car. I don't remember seeing anywhere that it would touch the bottom of the car while I was under there installing it. Anyone know which part(s) is likely touching?

* The driver side rear muffler orientation still isn't right. I have adjusted it 3 times. The problem is that the tips (and presumably the entire muffler) are angled too far inward, i.e. the tips point in toward the center of the car. It's as though the bend in the driver side muffler pipe, or the pipe connecting the middle muffler to the rear muffler, is at too sharp of an angle. It's not really a matter of me being too picky, it just looks goofy. I was hoping for spot-on fitment for the price paid. Anyone else having this issue? Any ideas on how to solve it? I will try to post pictures tomorrow.

[dawei213]

Will do. If I can carve out a weekend morning I'll let you know.


Anyone else notice slightly improved fuel efficiency with the AWE exhaust installed? There is a stretch of road I take every day coming home from work where the display shows 26-27 mpg by the time I get to my street, but for the past week since installing the AWE system it is showing 27-28 mpg on the same stretch. I haven't really changed my driving habits, and if anything my foot is a little heavier so I can make noise with the exhaust. I don't think it's placebo because I surely wasn't expecting this as a result. Any thoughts?

Bwhahaha! Increase? Mine is down a good 2 to 3 mpg and that's because I just want to hear the exhaust all the time. I'm dead serious. But highway miles, I haven't seen any changes.


Some additional observations:
* When going over small, abrupt road imperfections at low speed, I hear a knock/clunk/thud coming from under the car. I don't remember seeing anywhere that it would touch the bottom of the car while I was under there installing it. Anyone know which part(s) is likely touching?

* The driver side rear muffler orientation still isn't right. I have adjusted it 3 times. The problem is that the tips (and presumably the entire muffler) are angled too far inward, i.e. the tips point in toward the center of the car. It's as though the bend in the driver side muffler pipe, or the pipe connecting the middle muffler to the rear muffler, is at too sharp of an angle. It's not really a matter of me being too picky, it just looks goofy. I was hoping for spot-on fitment for the price paid. Anyone else having this issue? Any ideas on how to solve it? I will try to post pictures tomorrow.

Not sure what the knock/clunk/thud would be coming from. I was thinking resonator but you have the stock downpipes on. Could be something else like your suspension components?

For the muffler, you can get it right but it does take time. The shop that installed it for me completely butchered the way it looked until I told them no way it looks like that. I won't leave without it being fixed. Then they had a few guys spend a few hours getting aligned right and in the end it looked perfect, just like the image from AWE's website. I'm not sure what they did but they were able to get it to. It's been over 500 miles and a few weeks and it hasn't shifted at all. So you can get it spot on but it's probably difficult to do so on ramps than on a lift.

[SteveYem]

Bwhahaha! Increase? Mine is down a good 2 to 3 mpg and that's because I just want to hear the exhaust all the time. I'm dead serious. But highway miles, I haven't seen any changes.

Haha yeah. I will be filling up the tank today so I can see how honest the on-board computer is. I haven't been babying it, but haven't been beating on it either....just my normal driving, which includes some coasting in 6th gear as well as some very spirited acceleration with the engine in Dynamic mode. Tomorrow I may have to drive to Harrisburg so we'll see what results from 1 hour on the turnpike at ~75 mph.




Not sure what the knock/clunk/thud would be coming from. I was thinking resonator but you have the stock downpipes on. Could be something else like your suspension components?

Yeah I'm not sure. It doesn't sound like metal to metal so I had ruled out one of the pipes hitting the sway bar bracket. I am thinking it's related to the exhaust since it just cropped up, and it would be way too coincidental for some suspension issue to occur right after I installed the exhaust. It almost sounds like the exhaust is contacting something non-metallic, like the pipe leading up to the rear muffler is contacting the wheel liner, or the tips are contacting the rear valence....but from wiggling it back and forth by hand it doesn't seem like there is enough play for any of those things to come into contact.



For the muffler, you can get it right but it does take time. The shop that installed it for me completely butchered the way it looked until I told them no way it looks like that. I won't leave without it being fixed. Then they had a few guys spend a few hours getting aligned right and in the end it looked perfect, just like the image from AWE's website. I'm not sure what they did but they were able to get it to. It's been over 500 miles and a few weeks and it hasn't shifted at all. So you can get it spot on but it's probably difficult to do so on ramps than on a lift.

My latest thought is that it has something to do with the spacing between the two pipes that come off the middle resonator. I'll call these the "rear pipes". What I am thinking is that I could loosen the clamps on the driver side rear pipe, as well as loosening the screw+nut that holds the cross-brace tabs together, and wedge an appropriately sized piece of wood between the two rear pipes to force the driver side rear pipe to angle out toward the outside of the car a bit more. Essentially I would be "rotating" the entire rear driver side section of the exhaust system until the tips are no longer pointing inward.
The problem I will face is that the tips will end up too far to the outside of the opening in the valence and I'm not sure how I will correct that.

Looks like I have another fun Saturday morning planned out for myself. But, your comments actually re-affirmed my original decision to do the work myself. I have a feeling that most shops do not exercise the level of care and detail that I would want, and would therefore end up either having to wait and/or pay them for the additional time to get it right, or end up having to crawl under the car and adjust it myself anyway.

[SwankPeRFection]

Something else to look at. The inherent problem with slip joints on exhausts is that it has room for the two pipes to be completely together or slightly apart. If you have a slip joint going from one muffler pipe to the resonator pipe and it's not seated all the way, it can push the muffler pipe further towards the outside of the car which will rotate the tips to point towards the inside of the car. You might want to make sure all your joints are fully seated. If they were build to the proper sizing for the seated position, then this shouldn't be an issue. If for some reason the sizing is off by just a bit in length of pipes or the mating sections, the geometry of the exhaust will be all off. This is one of the biggest issues with exhausts that are build by hand each and every time. No two exhausts will be identical. For the price you pay, it should be effing perfect!

Also, sometimes (depending on what you're doing to install these exhausts), it's easier to get the entire exhaust put together and aligned first and then mount it to the car as one piece similar to how the OEM exhaust is. That way, you don't have a bunch of moving joints/sections messing with you when you're trying to get everything lined up right.

[SteveYem]

Something else to look at. The inherent problem with slip joints on exhausts is that it has room for the two pipes to be completely together or slightly apart. If you have a slip joint going from one muffler pipe to the resonator pipe and it's not seated all the way, it can push the muffler pipe further towards the outside of the car which will rotate the tips to point towards the inside of the car. You might want to make sure all your joints are fully seated. If they were build to the proper sizing for the seated position, then this shouldn't be an issue. If for some reason the sizing is off by just a bit in length of pipes or the mating sections, the geometry of the exhaust will be all off. This is one of the biggest issues with exhausts that are build by hand each and every time. No two exhausts will be identical. For the price you pay, it should be effing perfect!

Also, sometimes (depending on what you're doing to install these exhausts), it's easier to get the entire exhaust put together and aligned first and then mount it to the car as one piece similar to how the OEM exhaust is. That way, you don't have a bunch of moving joints/sections messing with you when you're trying to get everything lined up right.

I think that's part of the issue. There is no set relationship (at least not obvious to me) between the components. For example, the cross brace tabs on the rear pipes on the stock exhaust have a "half-hexagon" cross section such that one tab fits perfectly into the other (i.e. no vertical adjustability between the rear pipes), so then the only adjustment is side to side, i.e. how far the rear pipes are spaced before the fastener in the cross-brace is tightened to lock the position.
The cross brace tabs on the AWE system are flat and with oversized slotted holes relative to the fastening screw, so there is adjustability in the vertical, horizontal and rotational directions. This leaves a lot of room for error. If AWE could step in and tell me definitively that the two mating cross-brace tabs must be aligned perfectly, i.e. perfectly overlapping with top and bottom edges perfectly even, then that would 'lock' the position of the two rear pipes and thereby eliminate a lot of the guess work, because then all adjustments would be done at the joints between the rear pipes and rear mufflers and at the rear muffler hangers.

[SteveYem]

I posed this question to AWE earlier this afternoon, but thought I would put it here as well in case any members have run into the same thing:

Regarding my AWE exhaust system (downpipe-back) that I installed two weeks ago, everything is fine with the system operationally, but the rear driver side muffler tip alignment just eludes me. I am hoping I can get some advice because nothing on the forums has helped me so far.

This first picture shows how the tips look from directly behind the car. They are set almost perfectly symmetrical vertically and side-to-side, so from this angle everything looks good:
http://i.imgur.com/5VJ4itV.jpg

The problem is, the driver side tips angle inward toward the center of the car, i.e. if I was to extend my imaginary centerline of the car ~10 feet out the back, and project a line out that is parallel with the side of the muffler tip, the two lines would intersect. As a closer reference point, see the following photo. The red lines I added are just to show the relationship of the tips to the inner valence cutout, which I know is arbitrary, but stay with me here. The lines are roughly parallel, and I'm using this as a basis for comparing it to the orientation of the passenger side tips vs. the valence, which is "perfect":

http://i.imgur.com/D8dU2Np.jpg


Now, take a look at the following photo of the passenger side. This is the side where the tips are pointed "perfectly" straight out the back of the car, i.e. if I extended my imaginary car centerline and my imaginary line parallel to the exhaust tips, they would never intersect. So on this photo I drew the same arbitrary lines showing the relationship between the tip and the valence cutout, and you see that the lines are not parallel. I do not want to change the position of the passenger side muffler because for me it is "perfect".

http://i.imgur.com/Ahh7O03.jpg

(Thanks for staying tuned this far..)

So my question is: How on Earth do I get the driver side muffler to angle/rotate relatively outward from its current position so that the tips point straight out like on the passenger side?

I have tried loosening all the clamps back to the middle muffler, as well as the fastener at the cross-brace, and pushing/pulling/rotating it every which way and cannot get the tips to point straight out. In an ideal world, I would put a steeper bend in the rear tube leading up to the rear muffler, or a less steep bend in the short tube welded to the inlet of the muffler, which would solve the problem.
That being said: is it possible that there is a geometric error in a bend or tube length that is cause this misalignment? Just trying to identify and eliminate all variables.

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Have you tried loosening the slip joints and making sure that the drivers side canister and elbow portions of the exhaust have been slid far enough onto their mating points? In other words are the slip joints overlapping enough? That is the only thing I can think of that might give you some adjustment in the plane that is giving you problems.

[SteveYem]

Have you tried loosening the slip joints and making sure that the drivers side canister and elbow portions of the exhaust have been slid far enough onto their mating points? In other words are the slip joints overlapping enough? That is the only thing I can think of that might give you some adjustment in the plane that is giving you problems.

I did, but I'm going to have to give it another try.

[SteveYem]

Just gratuitously bumping my own thread for any more ideas on my muffler tip alignment issue..

[Todd/AWE]

The secret lies in Step 8 of install manual:

http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/installation_instructions.AWE_Tuning_B8_S4_exhaust _v2.pdf

Rotating the inlet tubes to the rear resonators changes their up/down and left/right attitude. You may need to adjust both the driver and passenger side ones to get both sides even in their respective valance openings.

Like I said before, don't get caught up in arbitrary visual details, like measurements of fractions of an inch, just line things up so the tips look correct when standing behind the car. I agree your driver side needs adjusting, but you may have to also adjust the passenger side in to achieve visual balance.

And a lift makes this job much easier.

[SteveYem]

The secret lies in Step 8 of install manual:

http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/pdf/installation_instructions.AWE_Tuning_B8_S4_exhaust _v2.pdf

Rotating the inlet tubes to the rear resonators changes their up/down and left/right attitude. You may need to adjust both the driver and passenger side ones to get both sides even in their respective valance openings.

Like I said before, don't get caught up in arbitrary visual details, like measurements of fractions of an inch, just line things up so the tips look correct when standing behind the car. I agree your driver side needs adjusting, but you may have to also adjust the passenger side in to achieve visual balance.

And a lift makes this job much easier.

Thanks for the advice, Todd. Good to know this is a common pitfall and not something specific to my system. I will admit that up until now I had not re-loosened all of the connections and instead was focusing on the driver side. But certainly I can see how both sides are not truly independent based on both coming from the same middle resonator and then tying together at the cross-brace. Will give it a shot hopefully this week and then report back.

[SuperCereal 3.0]

Found this thread, and rather than starting a new thread I figured I'd try my luck and ask here: I too have a stock downpipes AWE System with 90mm tips and I've had it for about 400 miles or so. My question is this, I've noticed sometimes when starting the car to move (<1500 RPM) it makes a little raspy type nice, and it's not always just sometimes. Is this perhaps because of vibration? When I'm above 1500 I never hear it.

[boss2k]

I also noticed that exhaust sounds louder with more load meaning its louder with 3 passengers in the car vs only me , is that true?

[Josh/AWE]

Found this thread, and rather than starting a new thread I figured I'd try my luck and ask here: I too have a stock downpipes AWE System with 90mm tips and I've had it for about 400 miles or so. My question is this, I've noticed sometimes when starting the car to move (<1500 RPM) it makes a little raspy type nice, and it's not always just sometimes. Is this perhaps because of vibration? When I'm above 1500 I never hear it.

With stock downpipes, the system will be a bit raspier than if you had AWE Tuning Resonated units installed.

[Josh/AWE]

I also noticed that exhaust sounds louder with more load meaning its louder with 3 passengers in the car vs only me , is that true?

Increased load will increase the volume of any exhaust, regardless of manufacturer. While it is possible that the addition of 2 passengers and 300+lbs in the vehicle will add enough "load" to make the system slightly louder, it would be barely noticeable.

[SuperCereal 3.0]

With stock downpipes, the system will be a bit raspier than if you had AWE Tuning Resonated units installed.

Thanks for the response Will. I watched other videos the other day and heard the noise I was talking about below 1500 RPM, so I'm glad to see it's normal :)

[boss2k]

Increased load will increase the volume of any exhaust, regardless of manufacturer. While it is possible that the addition of 2 passengers and 300+lbs in the vehicle will add enough "load" to make the system slightly louder, it would be barely noticeable.

Thanks for confirming this, with the resonated dps how much sound will it reduce

Is it recommended to have resonated dps for a manual car ?

[SteveYem]

Thanks for confirming this, with the resonated dps how much sound will it reduce

Is it recommended to have resonated dps for a manual car ?

I'm wondering the same thing. I have a set of the resonated DPs sitting in my basement but I am only planning to install them if I can be convinced that they will decrease the volume as opposed to just "cleaning up" the tone. Specifically, in the winter I do a lot of driving to mountains for snowboarding, with the rear seats folded down so that I can lay our snowboards down in the car. In my 6MT car with stock DPs and AWE DP-back system, the sound is too loud / annoying for me with the rear seats folded down. Like when I am climbing a slight hill at part throttle in 3rd gear, it really gets on my nerves. It drones and booms in the cabin. I still have not gotten an answer to whether the resonated DPs will improve this condition, so I will hold off installing them for now.

[Josh/AWE]

Thanks for confirming this, with the resonated dps how much sound will it reduce

Is it recommended to have resonated dps for a manual car ?

For 6MT cars, it's really up to the end user and what they are used to. Personally, I like the tone and volume when Resonated Downpipes are on the car. It's completely unobtrusive during normal driving, yet it still screams when I bury my foot in it. Others like the increased (about 10%) volume from the Stock DPs, due to their use of a smaller resonator. Some like the aggressiveness of a Non-Resonated downpipe.

[SteveYem]

I'm noticing a deep blackening of the outer-facing wall of the inner tip on each muffler. It's a darker buildup than the rest of the outer surfaces of the tips and so far has not come off with heavy scrubbing using microfiber towel, soap and water. I have my tips staggered so that the inner one sticks out farther than the outer one, so obviously this is due to the exhaust gas from the outer tip hitting this surface. I'm wondering is there if any tried and true method for removing this extra-strong buildup specifically.

[saxon]

Have you tried dish soap?

[fritze18]

I'm noticing a deep blackening of the outer-facing wall of the inner tip on each muffler. It's a darker buildup than the rest of the outer surfaces of the tips and so far has not come off with heavy scrubbing using microfiber towel, soap and water. I have my tips staggered so that the inner one sticks out farther than the outer one, so obviously this is due to the exhaust gas from the outer tip hitting this surface. I'm wondering is there if any tried and true method for removing this extra-strong buildup specifically.

I've had the same issue. Tried soap and water, and it did nothing. Same with inside the tips- if left for ~2 weeks, it's impossible to clean them up using only soap and water. Using a Mother's Powerball (attached to my drill), I use this on the inside of the tips:
http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/blue_magic/products/94/blue_magic_liquid_metal_polish_8_oz/

To get the outside walls of the tips, I pour some on a microfiber cloth and slide it in between the tips. Difficult to explain, but basically, I have one end of the cloth in one hand and the other end in the other hand, and I use a 'flossing' motion, wrapping it over and under each tip. This has worked very well for me, and hasn't caused my tips to discolour or anything. It cleans them up and makes them look brand new.

[Boris]

what is that little tool you have pictured in your first post, what does it do?

[B8_Jim]

what is that little tool you have pictured in your first post, what does it do?

It helps you separate the exhaust hangar post from the rubber grommet+brackets they go into on the car. I didn't need the specialty tool - a pair of adjustable jaw pliers plus a bit of WD-40 works - but the tool might make things a bit easier.
Another option would be to just take bolts that hold the hangar brackets off the car out and remove everything still attached to the stock exhaust, then you have a lot better access to the whole thing to get them separated.

[SteveYem]

I've had the same issue. Tried soap and water, and it did nothing. Same with inside the tips- if left for ~2 weeks, it's impossible to clean them up using only soap and water. Using a Mother's Powerball (attached to my drill), I use this on the inside of the tips:
http://bluemagicusa.com/index.php/blue_magic/products/94/blue_magic_liquid_metal_polish_8_oz/

To get the outside walls of the tips, I pour some on a microfiber cloth and slide it in between the tips. Difficult to explain, but basically, I have one end of the cloth in one hand and the other end in the other hand, and I use a 'flossing' motion, wrapping it over and under each tip. This has worked very well for me, and hasn't caused my tips to discolour or anything. It cleans them up and makes them look brand new.

Thanks for chiming in! I'll give that stuff a try!


what is that little tool you have pictured in your first post, what does it do?

Here is a tutorial video...although it shows 'straight' hanger posts without the barb at the end, which is really what makes the job challenging in the first place. But it still shows you how easy it can make your life when swapping an exhaust system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An1MPa2CwzY


It helps you separate the exhaust hangar post from the rubber grommet+brackets they go into on the car. I didn't need the specialty tool - a pair of adjustable jaw pliers plus a bit of WD-40 works - but the tool might make things a bit easier.
Another option would be to just take bolts that hold the hangar brackets off the car out and remove everything still attached to the stock exhaust, then you have a lot better access to the whole thing to get them separated.

Yep, there is definitely a variety of tools that can be used, but for my personal use I've found that this is the "right" tool for the job. It only really helps with removal, though, so I always find myself using WD40 and elbow grease to get the hangers back onto the posts.

[drob23]

It helps you separate the exhaust hangar post from the rubber grommet+brackets they go into on the car. I didn't need the specialty tool - a pair of adjustable jaw pliers plus a bit of WD-40 works - but the tool might make things a bit easier.
Another option would be to just take bolts that hold the hangar brackets off the car out and remove everything still attached to the stock exhaust, then you have a lot better access to the whole thing to get them separated.

Found that unbolting the hangers was the easier way. Bought and tried the tool SteveYem suggested, found it more annoying to put the hangers on afterwards, bolting off/on was easier IMO.

[roger v]

Anyone know what the install cost is for the AWE system?

[SteveYem]

Anyone know what the install cost is for the AWE system?

I've heard varying reports, but I believe that an experienced shop should not be charging more than 2 hours labor for the job. But that may not include any fine-tuning needed to get everything lined up to your liking.

[phxS4]

Anyone know what the install cost is for the AWE system?

Yea.. It varies.. I like to think I got a pretty good deal on mine. 75 bucks. But I didn't have DPs to install. However, my AK was done at the same time for free. As for the adjustments.. I am going back to my shop to get the final tweaks done to it since I have driven it around a bit - this is at no additional cost either.

Although this is certainly something that can be done in someone's garage - I had decided to let a professional handle it with more experience than I.

[roger v]

Yea.. It varies.. I like to think I got a pretty good deal on mine. 75 bucks. But I didn't have DPs to install. However, my AK was done at the same time for free. As for the adjustments.. I am going back to my shop to get the final tweaks done to it since I have driven it around a bit - this is at no additional cost either.

Although this is certainly something that can be done in someone's garage - I had decided to let a professional handle it with more experience than I.

That sounds like a great deal!

[phxS4]

That sounds like a great deal!

If you feel like driving 500+ miles to phx - I will point you in the direction of that shop! [:D]

[Rodmar]

Install the dp's yet?