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I RAC3
07-18-2013, 10:44 AM
I'm usually on the B5 S4 forums, as I already own one. I should receive my stock A4 in the next few days. My plan long term is to gut it, and turn it into a dedicated track car. I'd like to start with basic mods and maintenance as I have no guarantee the previous owners took care of the car.

Here are the details:

Stock 1.8t engine
5 speed manual transmission
Santorin Blue paint
~190k miles

What I'd like to do (near future):

Make sure engine compression and transmission are in good working order
Full turboback exhaust
FMIC
Upgraded DV
Stage 2 tune
Upgraded suspension
Upgraded brakes


Long term

If not already necessary, engine/transmission rebuild/replacement
Stage 3 clutch kit
Full stage 3 FT build
Upgraded fueling
Gutted interior
Roll cage


I'll admit, I'm not an A4 guy traditionally, and I haven't lurked the A4 forums long, so if any of you have any suggestions or help, I'm all ears.

Cgoon009
07-18-2013, 11:11 AM
Welcome welcome, Track car huh? FT build sounds nice, what about an engine swap? Stick a big motor in there and make some ponies [evilsmile]

Cgoon009
07-18-2013, 11:12 AM
also look up A4Rob's build thread - tracking his car, really cool stuff going on over there!

I RAC3
07-18-2013, 11:59 AM
Considered big motor, but I'll leave that to the S4. I'd like to keep it in the 2.0L and lower class for now. I want to rallycross the car at some point, and I don't want to be in the big leagues as far as power goes. Someday I'd like to get into that, but that's still a few years off.

.:1of1500:.
07-18-2013, 07:24 PM
Sounds like a fun project!

zandrew
07-19-2013, 05:55 AM
I wouldn't think a A4 quattro would make a good a rally cross or auto cross auto do to its heavy weight and its less then spectacular handling. I have coilovers on my car and the handling is still quite crappy to a lot of other makes. I am interested to see how this turns out.

As far as displacement goes if you are aiming for FT levels of hp then a 2.0 is not going to make a huge difference. Me personally I would not go past a 2.0 unless I was going with something bigger then a 2871.

Artiemas
07-19-2013, 06:06 AM
They can be made into some pretty decent track cars. They're heavy, but can be made decently light. M-Hoods car is around 2800lbs, IIRC. Reaching 3000lbs shouldn't be too hard.

The stock sway bays are shitty, especially the rear. People who have upgraded the rear have noted a massifve increase in handling.

zandrew
07-19-2013, 03:37 PM
I would say my issue with the cars handling is that I am accustomed to smaller lighter vehicles that feel very direct and nimble. This car handles ok just does not feel great. My only suspension mods though are the Vmaxx coilovers and APR snub mount and I know I need a more to get the car where I need it.

demonmk2
07-20-2013, 11:10 AM
upgrade all the mounts. engine,tranny,and rear diff (power ring & bushings in the carrier bracket)
and upgrade your shifter. get the jhm kit it makes a huge difference!

I RAC3
07-22-2013, 02:47 AM
so the jhm swaybar kit and short shifter kit. also some decent coilovers

Artiemas
07-22-2013, 06:06 AM
Look around for the swaybar options. Group buys have been coming up, and I'm sure you can shoot a PM to aI think it was 034 that recently had the sway and brackets for group buy pricing.

All dem mounts.

Just keep searching around, the topics have been covered quite a bit. But certainly, post back with any questions on anything as I know some posts are outdated and such.

Go the ebay SS kit. Do some searching on that. IIRC, it's literally only $34 now and coupled with the JHM linkage is quite nice.

I RAC3
07-22-2013, 10:55 AM
Thanks, any help is gratefully accepted; especially when it means I can save a few $$ on my build.

I RAC3
07-22-2013, 11:22 AM
I have the SSAC twin 1 setup for my S4, and I'm looking for something similar for the A4. 3" no cats and a single mid-muffler turboback system. What is the best/cheapest option? I got my entire setup (promo price) for $300. I know 034 has a 3" turboback option, but I'm looking for cheap options. Help?

TJN0923
07-22-2013, 12:00 PM
Do you have any local exhaust shops? I'd look around and ask if they'd be able to make something up for you. My guy was able to build my entire exhaust for less than 200

lorge1989
07-22-2013, 12:48 PM
I would suggest you make it yourself. If you are making a track car, you have a lot of mods in your future. Invest in a MIG. You can get a Hobart Handler that runs on 110 for aroudn $500 IIRC. Then get a universal kit from ebay and make it up yourself. You shoud have lot of pipe left over as well for other exhaust parts or maybe to re-do it if it doesn't come out perfect the first time. Along the way you find many uses for a welder, trust me.

Also I'm loling at the guy saying his car handles like shit on V-Max coilovers. Get a GOOD set of coilovers and a slimmed down A4 will handle quite well. I found that once I converted back to stock my A4 handles so much better than it did on cheap coilovers. Get the suspension geometry right with adjustable control arms and a good set of coils. Then gut the car as much as possible because this will be your largest bang for the buck mod. Get some wheels and tires and drive the car. DO NOT focus on engine mods.

You need to learn the car and learn how to drive. Judging by the tone of your questions you do not have any/a significant amount of expierience car racing. There is so much to learn and so much lap time to be gained on the track just by getting seat time. I've heard stories of Honda-Insights, yes Honday Insights out running Corvettes and Mustangs around a tight track. This is not because the Corvettes and Stangs are terrible cars, its because the driver of the Honda knew how to drive. They knew how to keep their momentum through the corners, they knew the line to take and they knew how to handle the car overall.

You don't need a fast car to have fun at the track, and more often than not you can learn a lot from a slower car because you will be driving its limit more often. Work your way up, don't invetst a whole ton of money into the car until you know that you will enjoy tracking the car, and that you want to foot the bill for everything that comes with it. Good luck, seems like it could be a very cool project.

I RAC3
07-22-2013, 09:52 PM
I'll talk to my local exhaust shop, I already went to him for customization before (I have a tip S, and used the manual dp's). I was also planning on using him for a single 3.5 setup before I received the cat-back.

You're right, I have a very limited amount of racing backround. It is something I'd like to grow into, which is why I'm not rushing to build a supercar project just yet; also the reason to keep it under the 2.0 limit and without a big power build. This is a fun project, and I'm going to have fun on the track. I'm not looking to become a pro driver with this car. Good advice lorge

Cgoon009
07-23-2013, 07:31 AM
If you want a good set of coilovers for cheap - Vogtland GT3s, then sway and strut bars. That would go a long way in making the car much stiffer

TJN0923
07-23-2013, 08:14 AM
I'll talk to my local exhaust shop, I already went to him for customization before (I have a tip S, and used the manual dp's). I was also planning on using him for a single 3.5 setup before I received the cat-back.

I personally would not recommend a 3.5" piping exhaust. I'd stick anywhere from 2.5 - 3".

At 3.5 you'd be losing too much torque. Especially since your immediate plans are just to go stage 2.

I RAC3
07-26-2013, 01:31 PM
I personally would not recommend a 3.5" piping exhaust. I'd stick anywhere from 2.5 - 3".

At 3.5 you'd be losing too much torque. Especially since your immediate plans are just to go stage 2.

The 3.5 was going to be for the S4 not the A4. I'm looking to do a 3" max on the A4.

I RAC3
08-22-2013, 08:26 PM
My local exhaust shop who did the work on my S4 is willing to build me a full turboback exhaust for $5-600 depending on the muffler I choose and how difficult it truly is.

hotchkis rear sway bar or 034 rear sway bar?

Hotchkis is rated less and costs more, so why would anyone buy it?

Cgoon009
08-22-2013, 08:45 PM
034, because you know its good.

Caffeinated
08-23-2013, 06:58 AM
Great project RAC3; I'm a convert from the S4.


If you want a good set of coilovers for cheap - Vogtland GT3s, then sway and strut bars. That would go a long way in making the car much stiffer

While these may be an acceptable street coil, if the OP is serious about building a fun track car, you will not want to touch any Vogtland, etc. That is still just a street suspension. A proper track suspension needs higher rate linear springs and the dampening to support it.

I would suggest looking for an old used set of Stasis Tracksport; they use Hyperco linear springs just like the big boys and the Koni struts can be rebuilt by someone like PSI to properly match the springs. Keep it relatively cheap. Otherwise, there probably isn't any better place to spend money than a good suspension setup. The difference in on track handling by simply going from a street based system to a proper Ohlins based system was...incredible.


I personally would not recommend a 3.5" piping exhaust. I'd stick anywhere from 2.5 - 3".

At 3.5 you'd be losing too much torque. Especially since your immediate plans are just to go stage 2.

This is a turbo car, please do not apply the rules of a naturally aspirated motor. NA cars create low end torque with exhaust back pressure; TURBO CARS DO NOT. The turbo creates more than enough backpressure, and as Garrett has shown over and over (largest turbo manufacturer in the world), you make the most power and torque with the least amount of post-turbine exhaust.

Pre-turbine, it matters big time, because turbocharges rely heavily on exhaust velocity and other factors. But the second your gases are expelled from the turbine housing, the least amount of exhaust is the best. THis is why you will continuously see turbo cars make substantially more power with exhaust dumps and test pipes. I can supply endless dyno comparisons supporting this claim.

Cgoon009
08-23-2013, 07:46 AM
Great project RAC3; I'm a convert from the S4.



While these may be an acceptable street coil, if the OP is serious about building a fun track car, you will not want to touch any Vogtland, etc. That is still just a street suspension. A proper track suspension needs higher rate linear springs and the dampening to support it.

I would suggest looking for an old used set of Stasis Tracksport; they use Hyperco linear springs just like the big boys and the Koni struts can be rebuilt by someone like PSI to properly match the springs. Keep it relatively cheap. Otherwise, there probably isn't any better place to spend money than a good suspension setup. The difference in on track handling by simply going from a street based system to a proper Ohlins based system was...incredible.



Your right, the regular series is just a street coilover. But the GT3s offer higher spring rates at a reasonable cost. 600 in the fronts and 760 in the rears at full compression iirc. (Still no damping) Stasis is nice, I'm running a set now, but the new systems are some of the most expensive. At that cost Bilsteins would be an option too. I would go with those over stasis. (Unless you can get your hands on their variable dampening system) Plus for a track application I would recommend new hardware because you would be pushing it to the limits. I guess my concern would be with used parts, even if they are rebuilt. Also if hes serious, he would need struts, sways and fully adjustable control arms so he could dial in his set up for each track+ tires. I was trying to give him good entry level suggestions that would leave room for other items. Out of curiosity what are the rates on the track sports? I would make the switch if it was a big jump.

I RAC3
08-23-2013, 09:48 AM
Ok, seriously, where the f do I buy StaSIS tracksports? I've googled it and searched and nobody seems to want to make it easy to buy them.

Caffeinated
08-23-2013, 10:01 AM
Tracksports are no longer made, hence why I suggested a used set. I see em for sale periodically for quite cheap, needing a rebuild usually. I recommend getting them rebuilt anyways because Stasis claims they are custom valved, but they aren't. They are just regular Konis. However, they are worth the money because the parts needed to run the straight style linear Hyperco springs are pretty expensive, unless you make your own like I did back when I had a set.

PSI will custom valve them to any spring rate and driving style you want. They do really amazing work, they are a world renowned company. Figure you find a blown set for $500, spend $800 rebuilding them, and you'll be good for years to come. You can do this with a regular set of Koni or Stasis Streetsport, but you'll need adapters to run the Hyperco or Eibach style 2.5" linear springs.

Most Tracksports came with 600/700, but they offered custom spring rates. The big difference is the linear vs. progressive. So far as I know the GT3 are still a progressive rate and they also don't offer much in the line of custom rates. I'm aware the GT3 is touted as a more track oriented suspension, but it's just not from a serious track car perspective. A KW V3 is a better choice, but even those are not a track suspension (they do a great job of bridging street to enthusiast track though). I don't recommend Bilsteins either; once again, it's a nice setup that is certainly better on track than say a set of ST, but it's just not a "track specific" suspension setup.

I don't know how "serious" the OP is with this car, perhaps I am being too aggressive. I come at this question from the position of building a race car that never sees the street. There is most definitely a big gap in the market for someone who wants to build a track car but isn't ready to move to something Ohlins based.

A4pilot
08-23-2013, 06:43 PM
Welcome!!

I RAC3
08-23-2013, 11:37 PM
Realistically, I'd like to make it a pure track car in about a year or so, while running on the streets for the time until then.

Cgoon009
08-24-2013, 06:52 AM
Well the cheapest place to start is the removal and sale of your interior, take all of that stuff out. Sell it to fund your build. Oh and post pictures!

mrbacardi35
08-25-2013, 07:24 AM
I have the SSAC twin 1 setup for my S4, and I'm looking for something similar for the A4. 3" no cats and a single mid-muffler turboback system. What is the best/cheapest option? I got my entire setup (promo price) for $300. I know 034 has a 3" turboback option, but I'm looking for cheap options. Help?

I have a used 034 3" test/down pipe I can sell you for almost half the price of brand new. And all you have left is downpipe back to do : ).
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/25/ytubunu9.jpg