PDA

View Full Version : Picked up an extra motor, planning a build on a budget. Advice wanted.



csosnowski
06-05-2013, 08:37 PM
99 058 block, manual crank. 170k
AEB head 170k, suffered cam chain tensioner failure according to PO.

Engine and head were both very sludgy so oil pump/pickup will be replaced.

My goal is a reliable, quick dd with a 28rs or 2871r.

My car currently has 260k on a stock motor and while Id like to see how far it will go, I have the itch for more power.

Im considering going up to 1.9l but pistons are pretty spendy. There had been valve-piston contact at some point in this engine's history, however the machine shop pressure tested the head and states that it seals. So for now I think I will leave the valvetrain intact.

I wont know if there is any damage to the ring lands from the contact until I pull the pistons/rods and inspect them.

I will be installing rods/rod bearings, still undecided on which ones to go with. Ive done a bit of research on different brands and am still trying to make a decision on what to go with. An example of the problem Im facing with this is the ebay rods that are cheap but some don't come with bolts, or possibly they are not balanced. Id rather not spend money twice.

Also Im not sure if I want to remove the crank and replace the main and thrust bearings, if I get it overbored then definitely but again Im not sure.

At this point Im trying to gather all the information that I can from the community and any info or secrets would be excellent.

redline380
06-05-2013, 10:25 PM
that is exactly what i did. i bought a junkyard motor and built it up myself over six months.

youll definately want to get everything checked out. have the clearences checked, new hone if you arent boring, new bearings all around. this means rod bearings, main bearings, and thurst washers. new seals all around, desludge everything. just take your time and the wallet wont hurt nearly as bad.

also, i highly recommend balancing the intermediate shaft. i didnt have to cause mine is an 06a block, but i've heard the untouched they wobble like a drunken irishman.

there are deals to be had on parts, just keep your eye out for them. i got some awesome mahle powerpak pistons for $380 since they were an odd size and no one else bought them. i do have unbranded rods which i'm kinda iffy about, but thet've held up fine to daily 22psi on a gt2871r for 5000 miles.

i say just take your time, aquire parts when they are a deal, and above all, research! i read atleast 20 build threads before i did mine. also, pick up a haynes or bentley manual. i kid you not, i keep my haynes manual next to my shitter.

csosnowski
06-05-2013, 10:47 PM
that is exactly what i did. i bought a junkyard motor and built it up myself over six months.

youll definately want to get everything checked out. have the clearences checked, new hone if you arent boring, new bearings all around. this means rod bearings, main bearings, and thurst washers. new seals all around, desludge everything. just take your time and the wallet wont hurt nearly as bad.

also, i highly recommend balancing the intermediate shaft. i didnt have to cause mine is an 06a block, but i've heard the untouched they wobble like a drunken irishman.

there are deals to be had on parts, just keep your eye out for them. i got some awesome mahle powerpak pistons for $380 since they were an odd size and no one else bought them. i do have unbranded rods which i'm kinda iffy about, but thet've held up fine to daily 22psi on a gt2871r for 5000 miles.

i say just take your time, aquire parts when they are a deal, and above all, research! i read atleast 20 build threads before i did mine. also, pick up a haynes or bentley manual. i kid you not, i keep my haynes manual next to my shitter.

Thanks for the response!

I will look at that I/M shaft, that's good info.

I definitely will be plastigauging the journals with the new bearings, and if I don't end up overboring then I will run my flex-hone to break the glaze. I probably wont touch the freeze plugs, but front/rear mains will be replaced among other stuff.

I would be super-stoked to find pistons for $380, especially mahle's. Are your skirts coated? What size are they?

I have elsawin and alldata, still trying to find a pdf of the Bentley but from what I have seen the Bentley has many images that come directly from elsa and the same goes for alldata.

I work in a shop and basically live and breathe this stuff lol.

redline380
06-05-2013, 10:57 PM
Thanks for the response!

I will look at that I/M shaft, that's good info.

I definitely will be plastigauging the journals with the new bearings, and if I don't end up overboring then I will run my flex-hone to break the glaze. I probably wont touch the freeze plugs, but front/rear mains will be replaced among other stuff.

I would be super-stoked to find pistons for $380, especially mahle's. Are your skirts coated? What size are they?

I have elsawin and alldata, still trying to find a pdf of the Bentley but from what I have seen the Bentley has many images that come directly from elsa and the same goes for alldata.

I work in a shop and basically live and breathe this stuff lol.

good to know you have a background in it. i, on the other hand, did not. i did mine while in school for political science, so it is just a hobby.

as for the skirts, i dont know if mine are coated but im pretty sure they aren't. they are 81.25mm bore with 8.5 compression, so less than desirable.

freeze plugs like you said arent necessary. and a good tip. when you are cleaning the sludge out of oil pan and valve cover, use zip strip. it literally melts all but the thickest of sludge

csosnowski
06-06-2013, 07:28 AM
good to know you have a background in it. i, on the other hand, did not. i did mine while in school for political science, so it is just a hobby.

as for the skirts, i dont know if mine are coated but im pretty sure they aren't. they are 81.25mm bore with 8.5 compression, so less than desirable.

freeze plugs like you said arent necessary. and a good tip. when you are cleaning the sludge out of oil pan and valve cover, use zip strip. it literally melts all but the thickest of sludge

Political science eh, that's interesting. I am doing this while Im in school as well, except for I am in engineering school.

I was trying to remember the name of that zip strip stuff. I recall seeing someone, probably you, posting about how it dissolves the sludge. Where am I able to buy it?

csosnowski
06-06-2013, 08:03 PM
Head is back from the machine shop and it holds good vacuum is what the machinist said, so that's a relief to my wallet lol.

I've started cleaning the head further than the machine shop did and it looks basically brand new, so I'm thinking that the valve marks on the pistons are from a previous valvetrain failure.

After the first bit of cleaning, the combustion chambers basically look new. This is good news lol.

I'll post some pics soon.

redline380
06-06-2013, 08:35 PM
you can get zip strip from a paint store as it is meant to strip paint. good to hear your head is looking alright. thinking about changing to solid exhaust valves?

Seerlah
06-06-2013, 08:39 PM
Dismantle the short block, hot tank it (since you said it had sludge issues), and build it up from scratch. Not many parts to it. New bearings all around (I am a Glyco fan for some oddball reason), Eagle is a cheap effective rod to go with (link provided), measure the bores, check for ovalation, old AEB pistons, new Goetze piston rings, call it a day. I would not spend the money on machine work for an overbore if they check out. And the GT28 series is very doable on stock displacement. Both me and redline380 are running it on stock displacement. And if you are staying with the GT28xx, then OEM head bolts and main bolts will do just fine. If you plan on chasing power with this engine in the future, do ARP hardware now. And I suggest balancing the rotating assembly. One big thing I regret not doing, but oh well.

http://thmotorsports.com/eagle/eagle_connecting_rod_set_hbeam/crs5669a3d/i-329359.aspx

zandrew
06-06-2013, 09:06 PM
I bought the eBay rods from a dealer that I know other people have bought from and done well with (different community). These actually come with ARP hardware. Sad truth is the Majority of rods all come from the same China factory(s) just different name. It is well documented. The difference is when you get down to finishing touchs and hardware. I know Eagle a couple years back had their rods blanked out and then they finished them here but since then I think they went like everyone else has to having them made there. I am pretty sure IE finish's theirs here as well as some other manufactures. The big thing is them beng balanced which is what scared me but mine were so close to perfect that its a non factor. I did a review on the ones I bought but have yet to install them since I am waiting on other parts to get back. Here is the review:

http://www.audiforums.com/forum/b5-models-69/%24235-dollar-forged-rods-review-worth-look-192898/

I plan on making some respectable power with them and I would be hardpressed to believe they will not hold up to GT2871R power. Then again I have seen over 600whp made on these rods in other builds and no failures. Not all eBay stuff is junk...

The rods that don't come from China are the expensive ones... Like 2x and as much 4x and 5x the cost.

ZimbutheMonkey
06-06-2013, 09:11 PM
99 058 block, manual crank. 170k
AEB head 170k, suffered cam chain tensioner failure according to PO.

Engine and head were both very sludgy so oil pump/pickup will be replaced.

My goal is a reliable, quick dd with a 28rs or 2871r.

My car currently has 260k on a stock motor and while Id like to see how far it will go, I have the itch for more power.

Im considering going up to 1.9l but pistons are pretty spendy. There had been valve-piston contact at some point in this engine's history, however the machine shop pressure tested the head and states that it seals. So for now I think I will leave the valvetrain intact.

I wont know if there is any damage to the ring lands from the contact until I pull the pistons/rods and inspect them.

I will be installing rods/rod bearings, still undecided on which ones to go with. Ive done a bit of research on different brands and am still trying to make a decision on what to go with. An example of the problem Im facing with this is the ebay rods that are cheap but some don't come with bolts, or possibly they are not balanced. Id rather not spend money twice.

Also Im not sure if I want to remove the crank and replace the main and thrust bearings, if I get it overbored then definitely but again Im not sure.

At this point Im trying to gather all the information that I can from the community and any info or secrets would be excellent.

Stay with the 1.8l displacement, put the money you'd spend on an extra 100cc displacement into things like your manifold or turbo.

Personally, I'd say that as long as you stick to good quality aftermarket parts for the 1.8 you'll be OK. Hell, I've ran 30 PSI of boost for 2 years on a stock head gasket, stock rings, stock pistons, stock head bolts, stock crank, stock main bearings and stock main bolts.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not planning on exceeding 450-500 crank HP, you're just fine w quality stock parts. Just change the rods, valve springs and go w stainless steel exhaust valves.

ZimbutheMonkey
06-06-2013, 09:17 PM
Dismantle the short block, hot tank it (since you said it had sludge issues), and build it up from scratch. Not many parts to it. New bearings all around (I am a Glyco fan for some oddball reason), Eagle is a cheap effective rod to go with (link provided), measure the bores, check for ovalation, old AEB pistons, new Goetze piston rings, call it a day. I would not spend the money on machine work for an overbore if they check out. And the GT28 series is very doable on stock displacement. Both me and redline380 are running it on stock displacement. And if you are staying with the GT28xx, then OEM head bolts and main bolts will do just fine. If you plan on chasing power with this engine in the future, do ARP hardware now. And I suggest balancing the rotating assembly. One big thing I regret not doing, but oh well.

http://thmotorsports.com/eagle/eagle_connecting_rod_set_hbeam/crs5669a3d/i-329359.aspx

Yeah, what he said...

redline380
06-07-2013, 05:45 AM
Stay with the 1.8l displacement, put the money you'd spend on an extra 100cc displacement into things like your manifold or turbo.


i'm gonna disagree, if you have the money that is. 100cc of air per 1440 degrees of crank rotation (four complete rotations, four combustion events) will help. say your averageing 4000rpms, divided by four thats 1000 combustions strokes. 100cc x 1000 =100,000cc's of extra exhaust gases helping push the turbine. since stock you are pushing 1800cc x 1000 combustion strokes @4000rpms, that is 1,800,000cc's of air off a stock motor. thats a 5.55% increase in exhuast gases, minus blow by and other variables. this stat is applicable to any rpm.

is it worth the $100 extra machine work and $500 in pistons? thats up to you.

i just realized all that math and explanation was completely useless. 1900 liters diveded by 1800 liters equals 1.0555, so 5.55% more displacement. but i spent like five minutes writing it out so im not going to delete it. you've just been mathed

csosnowski
06-07-2013, 07:48 AM
you can get zip strip from a paint store as it is meant to strip paint. good to hear your head is looking alright. thinking about changing to solid exhaust valves?

Thanks, I picked up some klean strip in an aerosol can from Ace hardware because they didn't have the zip in an aerosol. Still achieved a similar effect though.

I am thinking of going with solid exhaust valves, I haven't figured out whats the most cost effective way of doing that thgouh hahaha.


Dismantle the short block, hot tank it (since you said it had sludge issues), and build it up from scratch. Not many parts to it. New bearings all around (I am a Glyco fan for some oddball reason), Eagle is a cheap effective rod to go with (link provided), measure the bores, check for ovalation, old AEB pistons, new Goetze piston rings, call it a day. I would not spend the money on machine work for an overbore if they check out. And the GT28 series is very doable on stock displacement. Both me and redline380 are running it on stock displacement. And if you are staying with the GT28xx, then OEM head bolts and main bolts will do just fine. If you plan on chasing power with this engine in the future, do ARP hardware now. And I suggest balancing the rotating assembly. One big thing I regret not doing, but oh well.

http://thmotorsports.com/eagle/eagle_connecting_rod_set_hbeam/crs5669a3d/i-329359.aspx

Thanks Mitch. Block will be torn down and cleaned for sure, Im not sure if my machine shop has a hot tank. Theres not many automotive machine shops around here, maybe 3-4. Ill call and ask. If they do not, I will be investing stock in this klean strip company because that crap is pretty amazing (probably very similar to zip strip). Ill post some pics of some parts that I cleaned before and after, unfortunately I don't have pics of the head before I had it checked at the machine shop and it got cleaned a bit there.

I think even though this is an extreme budget build I would like the piece of mind of having ARP hardware top and bottom, and the flexibility of being able to remove the head without replacing the bolts would be excellent. Not that I want to have to be pulling the head very often but I am getting pretty fast at it since I have done about a half dozen 1.8t head gaskets in the past two months at work.

Ill be checking all the clearances and taking measurements all over, basically blueprinting it lol. My pistons have had valve contact so Im not sure if they will be able to be used, when I get them out I will inspect them. Im not sure where the power level will end up, I wont be chasing it for sure. My wife drives this car more than I do, but that might change.

I will look into the glyco's and the goetze's. Do you feel like there would be any benefit to coated bearings?


I bought the eBay rods from a dealer that I know other people have bought from and done well with (different community). These actually come with ARP hardware. Sad truth is the Majority of rods all come from the same China factory(s) just different name. It is well documented. The difference is when you get down to finishing touchs and hardware. I know Eagle a couple years back had their rods blanked out and then they finished them here but since then I think they went like everyone else has to having them made there. I am pretty sure IE finish's theirs here as well as some other manufactures. The big thing is them beng balanced which is what scared me but mine were so close to perfect that its a non factor. I did a review on the ones I bought but have yet to install them since I am waiting on other parts to get back. Here is the review:

http://www.audiforums.com/forum/b5-models-69/%24235-dollar-forged-rods-review-worth-look-192898/

I plan on making some respectable power with them and I would be hardpressed to believe they will not hold up to GT2871R power. Then again I have seen over 600whp made on these rods in other builds and no failures. Not all eBay stuff is junk...

The rods that don't come from China are the expensive ones... Like 2x and as much 4x and 5x the cost.

Like these?

Link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/400499170493?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649)

That was a good review, I appreciate you taking the time to measure and weigh them. Those are at a price point I cant pass up since the other ones I found are similar design but without fasteners and almost the same cost.

Is your block 058 or 06A (Im too lazy to check haha)? If it is an 058, did you have to clearance to fit them?

Lots of my parts will be coming from ebay on this build, I don't mind. Most of the replacement parts I put on customer cars at work come from china and are sold at AutoZone, O'Reilly, etc.


Stay with the 1.8l displacement, put the money you'd spend on an extra 100cc displacement into things like your manifold or turbo.

Personally, I'd say that as long as you stick to good quality aftermarket parts for the 1.8 you'll be OK. Hell, I've ran 30 PSI of boost for 2 years on a stock head gasket, stock rings, stock pistons, stock head bolts, stock crank, stock main bearings and stock main bolts.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not planning on exceeding 450-500 crank HP, you're just fine w quality stock parts. Just change the rods, valve springs and go w stainless steel exhaust valves.

Your engine is an anomaly lol, just kidding.

I would chalk up its survival to a good tune though, and your attention to detail. I have read a bunch of your build thread and its a good tight build.


I would like to change the exhaust valves to stainless, any recommendations? Also I should replace ALL the valve springs? Should I replace keepers and all that as well, seals?


i'm gonna disagree, if you have the money that is. 100cc of air per 1440 degrees of crank rotation (four complete rotations, four combustion events) will help. say your averageing 4000rpms, divided by four thats 1000 combustions strokes. 100cc x 1000 =100,000cc's of extra exhaust gases helping push the turbine. since stock you are pushing 1800cc x 1000 combustion strokes @4000rpms, that is 1,800,000cc's of air off a stock motor. thats a 5.55% increase in exhuast gases, minus blow by and other variables. this stat is applicable to any rpm.

is it worth the $100 extra machine work and $500 in pistons? thats up to you.

i just realized all that math and explanation was completely useless. 1900 liters diveded by 1800 liters equals 1.0555, so 5.55% more displacement. but i spent like five minutes writing it out so im not going to delete it. you've just been mathed

LOL.

I like displacement. And if I decided to throw a larger turbo on later, it would be able to spool it easier even with only a 6% increase in displacement. With a 28xx series turbo the added displacement will just make it that much more enjoyable around town and help with the off boost driving.

This car is a wagon so it has a little more weight, makes it a little sluggish sometimes. Although that could be the 260k engine getting tired, I should compression test that thing.

Thanks everyone for their input, keep it coming!

zandrew
06-07-2013, 01:24 PM
That is the rods I bought. The only thing I have had any issue with is the small end but its kind of a silly since I cheaped out. The oil holes left a small bur on the inside since they machined them after they honed them. Its not a big issue as it just needed rehoned very lightly. It was only on one rod though but I would check them.

I am about as frugal as one can be when it comes to buying parts but I would not cheap out on bearings or Gaskets. I bought Victor Reinz gaskets and seals (I found ECS had the best deal on the crankcase gasket set but Ebay had the best head set), Glyco bearings, Meyle oil and water pump. Do not reuse your head bolts!!! They are $25.

If you'd go with stock pistons and replace gaskets, bearings, water pump with metal impeller, stainless exhaust valves, Rods listed I would think you would be just fine for your hp goals. I think most people say 7200 RPM is safe limit on stock springs. Yes my block is 058.

I will have to clearance my block but that is because I am using a 2.0 crank.

csosnowski
06-08-2013, 11:23 PM
So I was curious as to the condition of the valves in the head I just got back from the machine shop and I decided to do an old school trick and flip the head up with the combustion chamber up and spray some stuff in there to see if the valves seal completely.

So I sprayed pb blaster in the chambers and lo and behold the head has leaking exhaust valves on cyls 2-3 and leaking intake valves on cyl 1. Theyre not very fast leaks, but they leak nonetheless. In fact, it takes 10-15 mins for the oil to be visible in the port.

Exhausts are fine because they are getting replaced with stainless units, but the intakes I am worried about and wondering if lapping them will do the trick to make them seal up again? Or is this slow leaking acceptable? Im hoping to not have to replace all the valves.

Also, should I go with a new set of stock valve springs/retainers or find something a bit better? I don't have $450 for high rev springs/retainers, is there another option?

ZimbutheMonkey
06-09-2013, 12:18 AM
Also, should I go with a new set of stock valve springs/retainers or find something a bit better? I don't have $450 for high rev springs/retainers, is there another option?

Yes, just buy a set of upgraded springs and re-use the same retainers. That's what I did and my engne has survived many 8000+ RPM pulls.

(Also, thanks for the compliments on my build threads, I hope you found them useful and if you have any questions, by all means, PM me [up])

csosnowski
06-09-2013, 11:34 PM
Yes, just buy a set of upgraded springs and re-use the same retainers. That's what I did and my engne has survived many 8000+ RPM pulls.

(Also, thanks for the compliments on my build threads, I hope you found them useful and if you have any questions, by all means, PM me [up])

Youre welcome, props where props are due. You've done some cool shit, and the fact that you have a high hp FWD is unique.

Whos got the best price on hd springs? If Im replacing the springs and exhaust (maybe intake) valves, should I replace the stem seals, guides?

I see a set on MJM but it says they are out of stock.

ZimbutheMonkey
06-10-2013, 12:06 AM
Thanks man, as for the guides, it all depends on whether or not they are worn. You'll need to check the tolerances. As for springs, I got them from Rosten. However, maybe see if IE sells the springs separately (as I recall someone saying that Rosten didn't look like they had them in stock)

mykeg6
06-10-2013, 03:41 AM
Separate supertech springs anyone?

Intake - http://thmotorsports.com/supertech_performance/supertech_valve_springs/spra20951/i-68995.aspx

Exhaust - http://thmotorsports.com/supertech_performance/supertech_valve_springs/sprh1002dau/i-252842.aspx

zandrew
06-10-2013, 05:22 AM
Mykeg you beat me to it. That is the best price I have found. If you want a complete a set with titanium retainers I have the retainers for half price. Both sides in total 20. You also need the spring seats for the exhaust side but they are pretty cheap.

csosnowski
06-12-2013, 06:51 AM
Mykeg you beat me to it. That is the best price I have found. If you want a complete a set with titanium retainers I have the retainers for half price. Both sides in total 20. You also need the spring seats for the exhaust side but they are pretty cheap.


Why do I need seats for the exhaust? Supertech springs don't fit the stock seats?

mykeg6
06-12-2013, 07:34 AM
I think the exhaust spring seats need to be replaced since the Supertech exhaust valves are dual and will be using Titanium retainers.

It is actually included in the valve spring kit.


Supertech Spring / Retainer Kit:

Springs:
SPR-A2095 (12) - Intake
SPR-H1002D (8) - Exhaust

Retainers:
Ret-Au5VI/T (12) Intake
Ret-Au5VE/T1 (8) Exhaust

Seat: SEAT-H1000 (8, Exhaust Only)

zandrew
06-12-2013, 02:07 PM
Why do I need seats for the exhaust? Supertech springs don't fit the stock seats?

You need the spring seats for the exhaust springs. The stockers are singles and the Supertech are doubles. If you wanted to get by with the least you could by the exhaust springs, seats, and retainers, and run just the intake springs with the stock retainers.

The springs and seats can be bought for $192 and I have full sets of the retainers I am selling for $120 shipped. They are Supertech Titanium. Thats about half the price anywhere else.

redline380
06-12-2013, 11:48 PM
The springs and seats can be bought for $192 and I have full sets of the retainers I am selling for $120 shipped. They are Supertech Titanium. Thats about half the price anywhere else.

the website i pm'ed you has the supertech valvetrain for $392, including springs, ti retainers, and exhaust seats/ not sure if you actually looked at it but they do have some pretty decent deals

mykeg6
06-13-2013, 01:48 AM
http://thmotorsports.com/supertech_performance/supertech_spring_/_retainer_kits/sprkaudi18t/i-253002.aspx

$360.74 for the set

You can even use this coupon code.

SuperTech37OFF

$341.76 :)

zandrew
06-13-2013, 06:43 AM
If saving money is your goal I have the retainers for $120 shipped. The rest of the parts are right around $190-$200 shipped. Thats $320 for the whole setup.

I have bought stuff from THM and they have awesome deals. They drop ship about 75% of stuff they sell and some times it takes 2-4weeks to get it. If you are slowly building something its OK but if you need the parts now it sucks.

csosnowski
06-30-2013, 09:55 PM
Am I able to use the 06A rings on the AEB pistons?

How about the main/rod bearings?

redline380
06-30-2013, 10:14 PM
Rings should be the same.
Pretty sure mains are the same.
I believe 06a rod bearings are tangless, but if you're using aftermarket rods they all use tanged 058 rod bearings

csosnowski
06-30-2013, 10:16 PM
Rings should be the same.
Pretty sure mains are the same.
I believe 06a rod bearings are tangless, but if you're using aftermarket rods they all use tanged 058 rod bearings

Excellent, thanks.

I am compiling parts for my build, just ironing out the details. The way I am doing it is probably going to ruffle feathers lol.

redline380
06-30-2013, 10:34 PM
yep. aftermarket rods get 058 bearings, mains and thrust washers are the same. 058 and 06a engines all use the same journal sizes (1.8t and 2.0 too), its just the snout length on the cranks are different.

csosnowski
07-14-2013, 10:58 PM
Should I go bigger than an S4 fuel pump? I can get a whole module for way less than a walbro in a basket.

I'm pretty sure in my s4 I was pushing 375-400chp with no fuel starvation that I could see from trims.

I don't plan on going over 400chp since that's more than the clutch I've budgeted for will handle.

S4 pump or walbro? Injector size for 400chp, 440-550, 630?

redline380
07-14-2013, 11:20 PM
the stock pump probably wont cut it for 400chp, but you need to take injector size and and pressure into consideration. say your running 4 or 5 bar, the pump will be able to deliver 400 chp. but it wont last long. not to mention odds are youll be running 3 bar fuel pressure. just get a walbro 255lph for less than 100$ and call it good. mine was to small to put in the basket, so i just oput oring around it and made it fit.

as for injector size, 440 would only cut it on 4bar i believe. 630 is just commonly used and supported. remember, big injectors can always be held back to support lower hp numbers, but you can only bump the pressure up so much to support high hp numbers before something bad happens. i'd go 630's or whatever is available around there in an updated injector.

Seerlah
07-15-2013, 03:52 AM
I know someone who will have a Walbro 255 for sale soon. If you want to pick it up from him.

csosnowski
07-15-2013, 11:07 AM
the stock pump probably wont cut it for 400chp, but you need to take injector size and and pressure into consideration. say your running 4 or 5 bar, the pump will be able to deliver 400 chp. but it wont last long. not to mention odds are youll be running 3 bar fuel pressure. just get a walbro 255lph for less than 100$ and call it good. mine was to small to put in the basket, so i just oput oring around it and made it fit.

as for injector size, 440 would only cut it on 4bar i believe. 630 is just commonly used and supported. remember, big injectors can always be held back to support lower hp numbers, but you can only bump the pressure up so much to support high hp numbers before something bad happens. i'd go 630's or whatever is available around there in an updated injector.

Would something like this work: Linky. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330827215808)


I know someone who will have a Walbro 255 for sale soon. If you want to pick it up from him.

I may be interested in that.


So the consensus is that an S4 pump wont support 400chp with a 1.8t? Somehow I cant make sense of that since there are some stg2 S4's making around that, arent there?

redline380
07-15-2013, 11:12 AM
i think those injectors would work fine, but you should really go by the the advice of who would be doing the tuning. as for the s4 pump, its hardly an upgrade over the stock pump. i know it wont do much more. walbros can be had for cheap

c0r3y.af
07-16-2013, 06:57 AM
I just picked up a spare head as well to go with a spare block that I had laying around so I'm interested to see what you end up doing to the head.

csosnowski
07-17-2013, 10:03 PM
I just picked up a spare head as well to go with a spare block that I had laying around so I'm interested to see what you end up doing to the head.

Im pretty divided.

I would love to do supertech valvetrain pieces that have been linked here, but I just cant fit an extra $500 into the budget yet. I may just do it anyway and bite it because I would like it less if I floated a valve than saving the $500.

I don't technically 'need' to rev past 7500 because the turbo that Im choosing will start to have diminishing gains at that point. I guess we'll have to see.

On a different subject; my rod bearings, main bearings, thrust bearings, piston rings, and I/m shaft bearings came in today. My intake manifold, AWM valve cover, and ATW oil pan came in as well. Rods are in the mail.

Intake, valve cover, and oil pan will be tanked, sandblasted and powerdercoated. Block is going to be tanked and painted.

Sealed Power rod bearings, main bearings and I/m bearings. Goetze rings. KS thrust bearings.

I did some research; and Sealed Power, Goetze and KS are all part of the Federal Mogul group. I'm not sure if that means anything but I do know that the rod bearings were half the cost of the Glyco branded ones. Coincidentally, Glyco is also part of the Federal Mogul group. I guess I will find out if they hold up lol.

redline380
07-17-2013, 10:57 PM
On a different subject; my... AWM valve cover... came in as well

reason for awm valve cover? going with push down coils? if so, i hope they are fsi coils from genuineaudiparts.com. think i paid less than $80 for mine.

csosnowski
07-18-2013, 10:43 AM
reason for awm valve cover? going with push down coils? if so, i hope they are fsi coils from genuineaudiparts.com. think i paid less than $80 for mine.

yes, I have fsi coils already in my ATW. I don't like the big square hole and with the cinders they use on the roads here, I really don't like how they tend to gather down there.

Reason for the AWM valve cover other than cosmetic is for catch can, AWM has the port in the rear (as you know already im sure). I want to make sure that my valve cover gaskets, cam seals, etc. stay in good condition so I will be running a catch can that will be plumbed into the intake most likely. Although I may do an exhaust-venturi setup.

I will be using the pieces from the 034 silicone kit for AWM, like the billet breather adapter and stuff up to the valve cover and modify from there.

csosnowski
07-21-2013, 06:11 PM
Is anyone running CAT Cams Gold Springs?

Do they require new seats?

csosnowski
07-22-2013, 11:13 PM
well now I have rods, bearings, rings, t-belt kit is on the way, as is valve spring compressor.

block is being sent to hot tank tomorrow; intake, oil pan valve cover are going to powder coat (when I can get ahold of them).

just have to round up a few more parts and start putting this thing together. will post many pics soon.

csosnowski
07-23-2013, 05:53 PM
droppped the block at the machinist for hot tank, crank polish and I/M shaft bearing R&R.

getting excited, talked to the powder coater today and they are now doing ceramic coatings. I see a ceramic coated mani and hot side in my future.

Any info on CAT valve springs would be greatly appreciated.

Also: 040, 255 or 044? 400chp goal.

Seerlah
07-23-2013, 06:53 PM
You say 400chp now, but that will all change in the future. 044 now so you don't have to worry later. I would also get my rotating assembly balanced. Wish I did with my engine build.

csosnowski
07-23-2013, 09:49 PM
You say 400chp now, but that will all change in the future. 044 now so you don't have to worry later. I would also get my rotating assembly balanced. Wish I did with my engine build.

LOL, yeah with the clutch that I chose (will be disclosed when I post specs of build) Im not sure if it will hold over 400chp.

BTW this all started with that clutch I bought from you, thanks mitch lmao. I still have it btw, its going to go on the spare motor in case I blow it up after I put the new one in.

viceprp
07-24-2013, 12:50 AM
LOL, yeah with the clutch that I chose (will be disclosed when I post specs of build) Im not sure if it will hold over 400chp.

BTW this all started with that clutch I bought from you, thanks mitch lmao. I still have it btw, its going to go on the spare motor in case I blow it up after I put the new one in.
I though my FX400 228mm would be enough back in the day. I started thinking, "maybe just a K04," and then I wanted a DiscoPotato Eliminator Kit. Which led me to a T25 mani bc I wanted more flow, bro. But why not go GT3071-WG then for that extra 50hp up top. Screw it, I purchased Tial tubular mani, GT3076r and went standalone. Moral of the story, give yourself some head room to grow bc my freshly broken in clutch won't hold 30r power.

csosnowski
07-24-2013, 11:58 AM
I though my FX400 228mm would be enough back in the day. I started thinking, "maybe just a K04," and then I wanted a DiscoPotato Eliminator Kit. Which led me to a T25 mani bc I wanted more flow, bro. But why not go GT3071-WG then for that extra 50hp up top. Screw it, I purchased Tial tubular mani, GT3076r and went standalone. Moral of the story, give yourself some head room to grow bc my freshly broken in clutch won't hold 30r power.

So your fx400 228mm wont hold a 30r? Good info.


Does anyone know how to tell a stock hollow sodium-filled AEB valve from an aftermarket solid valve?

redline380
07-24-2013, 12:37 PM
pretty sure the only real way to tell is either cut them open, or weigh them.

M-Hood
07-24-2013, 01:19 PM
I though my FX400 228mm would be enough back in the day. I started thinking, "maybe just a K04," and then I wanted a DiscoPotato Eliminator Kit. Which led me to a T25 mani bc I wanted more flow, bro. But why not go GT3071-WG then for that extra 50hp up top. Screw it, I purchased Tial tubular mani, GT3076r and went standalone. Moral of the story, give yourself some head room to grow bc my freshly broken in clutch won't hold 30r power.

Like most things you have to run the right clutch for the amount of power the car will be making, even going with too much clutch is a bad idea because the clutch will wear quicker then normal. Seen it way too many times, people going with a really high stage clutch on a car that is only daily driven and making less then half the power the clutch is rated for.

csosnowski
07-24-2013, 09:10 PM
I bought more parts today. Ill soon start mocking it up with a bunch of pics.

I also got my gates timing kit yesterday and my genius valve spring compressor from amazon yesterday as well.

I have begun pulling valves so I can send the head in to get tanked and then replace the stem seals.

Im still undecided on valvetrain components. Any advice on the inexpensive side?

mykeg6
07-24-2013, 10:30 PM
I went with some Supertech SS exhaust valves, and a Supertech valvespring/retainer kit.

Cheapest available.

csosnowski
07-25-2013, 03:45 PM
I went with some Supertech SS exhaust valves, and a Supertech valvespring/retainer kit.

Cheapest available.

Looks like thats what Im going to have to go with. I cant find rosten springs anymore, CAT springs may be an option but I cant find anyone running them.

Also, it seems like RingerRacing has the best price on SS Supertech valves. ~$159 is what I found them for there IIRC.

How do the seats come out?

mykeg6
07-25-2013, 05:35 PM
Ringer Racing has great customer service.

I don't know how the seats come out since I had my mechanic install the valves and springs for me.

csosnowski
07-26-2013, 02:57 PM
Ok so I am at a loss, I cant find any info on the spring seats. Ive got the head stripped and valve seals removed.

All the kits from supertech and ferrera note that the stock seats should be discarded, I dont see the seats in this head. All I see is the pad where the oem spring was sitting.

Surely someone has to have done this themself and can shed some light, help a guy out haha.

mykeg6
07-26-2013, 08:45 PM
The Supertech kit comes with exhaust spring seats. You need to change them since it will be converted from single to dual.

csosnowski
07-28-2013, 09:00 AM
http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/2/supertech-valve-spring-seat.jpg

Yes, these.

What Im trying to say is that I don't have anything like that in the head, where they say discard oem spring seat. I do not see one.

Seerlah
07-28-2013, 02:25 PM
Can't really help you out there (never did valve train before), but can you post a link to this Amazon valve spring tool?

edit: Nvmd, found it.

nynoah
07-28-2013, 02:27 PM
this is why I pay a shop to do head work. Unless you are an expert and have all the tools on hand it usually ends up costing you more in the end in lost time and actual money.

Seerlah
07-28-2013, 02:36 PM
I plan on building my own cylinder head [up]

nynoah
07-28-2013, 02:38 PM
Good luck. I have done it using a friends tools years ago, and I know better now.

csosnowski
07-28-2013, 05:09 PM
I can see both sides of building a head, and honestly it took 45mins to pull all the keepers, retainers, springs, and valves.

I used the 30mm adapter on the combustion chamber side and the 23mm adapter on the spring side with the screw lever, which gave enough room to pop the retainers with a pick and then use my magnetic pickup tool to grab the keepers.

Mine were pretty sludgy so I screwed the screw in slowly and when the keepers 'popped" loose from the retainer I screwed in just a little further to get the keepers out. Some people said that the tool is flimsy and it is if youre working on something with much higher spring rates or trying to work really fast. The tool is not Assenmacher qualtiy, but it does the job perfectly.

If I were cutting new seats or installing new guides, etc. I would have farmed it out because I dont have that equipment. Im just lapping, R&Ring seals, springs, retainers, and new exhaust valves so its really a simple procedure. Plus now I know that it doesnt take that long and if I were to take it to another shop to do it for me, I have a reasonable idea of how long it takes and how much it should cost.

ZimbutheMonkey
07-28-2013, 05:39 PM
http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/2/supertech-valve-spring-seat.jpg

Yes, these.

What Im trying to say is that I don't have anything like that in the head, where they say discard oem spring seat. I do not see one.

I don't remember seeing them either when I did my head work

csosnowski
07-28-2013, 05:45 PM
I don't remember seeing them either when I did my head work

oh, like under the stock springs?

thenj3
07-28-2013, 05:54 PM
I plan on building my own cylinder head [up]

Mitch buy mine.

csosnowski
07-29-2013, 10:11 AM
https://6qb5lq.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pRQF9Sh8S3aCJ5WUTBLDqpLbKIZOGlnRfPx0NziITwIr0Qq-sOAcIjSZ6IywSLPImsKNE4pspacAreRcvsYYvZG_LulGvrHTjf rfnOsanT6M/WP_20130728_003.jpg?psid=1

csosnowski
07-31-2013, 12:51 PM
Intake valves

https://3kb5lq.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pvbpadBSZKCR8KvNIMIfFfdjGqPJHyte6w_KQc1J0xtbjpuz IA8l7T5-vOUTdg9EWaVQl7bqypz6tsT208z2o-ywU4rya9h37DusxjKd-NdE/WP_20130730_007.jpg?psid=1

Cleaned

https://3ab5lq.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2p5AjH1appo25s8MZnVKRGYiihiLeumSzcuCJkNDa3oeoCbpb gT4B-UPxxccJlGAvPJhN8GLWpSxgVVcY486bMF8LWNC2tkCQrHvuck-eqdpo/WP_20130730_008.jpg?psid=1

https://5kauog.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pZE1VLqcG-LQ7307VtBTytU2202ypdp9b3ou8LKtb4lPowOLc83eQwFGTiEa UDZPPHRD2wWoyfX04NcYcuYJWVs7sAnEks7ERM6-YKyK5wX8/WP_20130730_012.jpg?psid=1