(kloeb2's) - GTX2863R BT build

[kloeb2]

Well, I figure it’s better late than never…
I just finished (hardware at least) installing all the parts for my GTX2863R Build. I’d been collecting parts for a year or so and the build took about a month and a half. Just finished a couple weeks ago. I feel like there is a bad rap goin around lately on thowing bigger turbos on our cars. I'm hoping to add another success story to the list to build a little confidence in the platform.

Also thought it was a good idea to make this thread as I still have 100 questions on tuning and how to get this thing running how i want it

And a little about the car…

2007 Black A4 6MT Quattro. Bought with 42k on it. Now it’s up around 67k
ATP GTX 2863R with stock location manifold, intake elbow, and oil/coolant lines. Internally wastegated
S3 injectors
KMD internals for HPFP
145 bar HPFPupgrade PRV
RS4 LPFP Controller
DW300 lpfp
Synapse synchronic DV
Vast billet valve cover
IE drop in rods
CTS FMIC
034 HFC
Stasis exhaust
New timing belt, water pump, tensioner etc.

MAESTRO

JHM short shifter
DTM shift knob and boot
Whispbar roof rack (I do a lot of biking)

H&R Sport springs
Koni Yellow shocks
Slotted rotors (forget the brand at the moment)
034 Rear strut bar
034 adjustable end links
Hawk HPS pads front and rear
ECS stainless lines front and rear
Tyrol caliper stiffening kit



I know I’m forgetting some parts…

It probably would have been a better idea to make this thread before I started working on the car, but I was in the garage during all the free time I had and didn’t have much of a chance lol.

I’ll try to upload pics in a somewhat sequential format.

The day she went under the knife...

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0514_zpsa3a2f068.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0515_zps28981ef2.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0523_zps03ba5ad4.jpg

And her resting place for the build..

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0528_zpsf9716f01.jpg

Build pics to come once I finish uploading everything to photobucket.

[kloeb2]

Car in the air... Bumper off. I had the CTS FMIC installed prior to the turbo build

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0530_zps3bc44e66.jpg

Beginning the teardown

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0531_zps916774ad.jpg

Boring timing mark reference pictures

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0537_zps9a8a4243.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0539_zpse4c6541c.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0540_zps37b07eb4.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0542_zps3b862116.jpg

Wow, photobucket is terribly slow...

[kloeb2]

Parts!!!

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0503_zps4a994c02.jpg

I got the VC from an AZ member on here and decided that it needed to get anodized..

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0504_zps05303e32.jpg

I had a coworker pull a few strings...

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0557_zps73361e94.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0560_zps01855287.jpg

I had to take out the stainless baffles at the breather. Anodizing doesn't work too well with steel. I ended up destroying them in the process, so I cut some new ones.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0555_zpsd5df6547.jpg

There are two in there. The slotted vents are offset.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0566_zpse0475ef6.jpg

:)

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0570_zpsab5fe545.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0572_zpscb63d9a1.jpg

I was pleasantly surprised to see an option for an external wastegate. from pictures I saw on their website and on other builds, i never saw this type of manifold..

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0573_zpsaaed8b39.jpg

Still uploading...

[ericpaulyoung]

SHIT! I didn't get the stock location because I wanted the option for external wastegate!!!! Damn, I would have totally got this manifold if I knew it came with the option!

- Eric

[kloeb2]

More turbo pictures
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0574_zps11452a2f.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0575_zpsb905ed26.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0576_zpsd9062552.jpg

And naturally, I had to take it apart...
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0579_zpse1e8db07.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0578_zps49cf03db.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0582_zpsb727cb12.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0583_zpsed224552.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0585_zpsee0f262f.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0586_zpsae170d81.jpg

I tapped my compressor housing and did some vac hose test fitting. Pretty nerve wrecking using the compressor housing to tap an npt thread for my first time :/ It came out great though
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0590_zpsb2e74f33.jpg

[kloeb2]

SHIT! I didn't get the stock location because I wanted the option for external wastegate!!!! Damn, I would have totally got this manifold if I knew it came with the option!

- Eric

Yeah I wasn't expecting it at all! I think you were actually the one that convinced me to go with this one because I was not planning on using an external wastegate.. It's nice to have the option though :)

[kloeb2]

More motor pics...

I had a nastly oil leak somewhere around the turbo and what seemed like a million other places
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0547_zps7c8c8dc4.jpg

ko3 out
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0548_zpse5bc8e6c.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0550_zps7bf8359d.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0551_zps801ccbba.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0552_zps7b348dd4.jpg

I know, I know, we've all seen these pictures before..

Heads off
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0562_zps98f931c6.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0561_zpsa7b6e311.jpg

Right around this point is when I decided that I should label bags and seperate all my bolts... I'm very glad that I did this.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0563_zps54367738.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0564_zps5851c6c8.jpg

[kloeb2]

i didn't pull the motor out. This was stupid. Leaving it in made everything way harder. had to lower the subframe and jack up the motor from the bellhousing to get clearance to take the pan off

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0594_zps386aa9a1.jpg

Finally did get it off then I couldn't figure out how to get the balance shaft/oil pump assembly off.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0595_zpsac4e4813.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0596_zps8315f027.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0598_zps8dab7eab.jpg

I took of the right sprocket, then slid the tensioner out to drop the pump.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0601_zpsbd46f62f.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0602_zps3c00c1c0.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0605_zps9e471528.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0609_zpscdae0816.jpg

Got the pistons/rods out and labeled them
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0610_zps637ecc63.jpg

Mmmm beautiful shiny crank journals. Everything that I pulled out of this thing looked to be in excellent condition
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0612_zpsc6baeeea.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0613_zpsd36c71ee.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0614_zpsff6f2807.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0615_zps4df18d27.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0619_zps52fc599a.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0625_zpsfab3de04.jpg

Rods and pistons dissasembled
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0628_zps95830a4c.jpg
Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the IE Rods going on..

Plastigagin

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0629_zps4575eb61.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0630_zpsa28ff01b.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0631_zps58bd3a5f.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0632_zps9f741015.jpg

[kloeb2]

Cleaning up the head and deck
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0634_zps74d13035.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0635_zps588ee2b2.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0636_zpseb189223.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0637_zpsa71ac8fc.jpg

Oil pan going back on. I think I may have used a bit too much sealant. But not too much squished out the edges when it was torqued down so I figured it was ok..http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0638_zps2cb6f750.jpg

Headgasket
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0639_zps1ba1a0df.jpg

Heads on! Timed and starting to look like an engine again..
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0640_zpse6472883.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0642_zps1903996d.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0643_zps701845de.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0644_zps76dbd856.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0645_zps2a6426f5.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0646_zps6682f52f.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0641_zpsb9579534.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0649_zps8754df30.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0650_zpse30ae450.jpg

[kloeb2]

Reassembly pictures start to get more and more scarce the closer i got to finishing..

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0651_zps34e9bb6e.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0652_zps19ec5f55.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0653_zps12de4c60.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0655_zpsd3bfcc85.jpg

Onto the turbo test fitting... Don't mind the orange vac lines. The person that packaged my order from ebay must have been color blind. I'll be replacing them with red or black sometime soon.http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0655_zpsd3bfcc85.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0656_zps7ac61c87.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0659_zps42c57551.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0660_zpsf4d9e4ff.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0661_zps5a7560a5.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0662_zps7697beda.jpg

This thing fit absolutely perfectly. Nothing needed to be modified for the turbo to slide right in... I was very pleased.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0663_zps17f2a807.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0663_zps17f2a807.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0664_zps896616f3.jpg

Timing cover back on and new serpentine tensioner.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0666_zps173822f6.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0667_zpsead0ba18.jpg

[ericpaulyoung]

awesome

[drumnjuny]

[up][up][up] yes

[mec]

Very nice! I like the progress! Hows it run?

[kloeb2]

Exhaust time.. Out with the old
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0672_zps3a576b6d.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0673_zpsb6b424f6.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0674_zps00f521de.jpg

The exhaust from tip to turbo fit perfectly. I was sort of questioning ATP's universal downpipe mount on the turbo, but everything line up really good.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0675_zps94c02ab0.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0676_zpsd8ba8cf6.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0677_zps89208f34.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0680_zpscdfed7ac.jpg

Still uploading...

[kloeb2]

It's been running pretty good. I'm still on the base file that I got from eurodyne. on cold starts it sounds like a fricken tractor, but I think an exhaust leak is causing a lot of that..

I haven't been beating on it too hard, I need to slowly gain confidence in her before I really open it up. been doing some 2nd gear to 5000 and third gear to around 4000 rpm pulls. Holding boost very well, peaking at about 22.5 psi. I do get a misfire at high boost and loads. I think I need colder plugs or to close the gap on my stock ones. They're NGK iridiums gapped at .032 right now.

3rd gear around 2700 is when the magic happens. It almost spools too quickly.. I may need to work on the n75 duty cycle map for that one? Still learning maestro, but in the mean time, i've been cruising around with a constant grin on my Face :D

[kloeb2]

Damn orange vac lines... It's the little things that bother me.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0681_zps35a98fa3.jpg

I cut up my 034 tip pipe. fit pretty good with the intake pipe that was supplied with the kit. I had to hack off about an inch off of the aluminum piece.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0682_zpsc9679f2c.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0683_zps9961dfc2.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0684_zps16c866da.jpg

Hmm, I need to make a bracket for the n75
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0685_zps3fa68402.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0686_zps9c40dfb7.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0687_zpsb276d344.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0689_zps5be41ebe.jpg

Onto the charge pipe modification.. At work, trying to figure out how i wanted to do it..

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0692_zpsbeb76925.jpg

This will do...
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0694_zps1b690a97.jpg


I had to get a 2"od x 4"lg to connect my cts IC pipe to the compressor outlet. Kinda hard to see whats going on in the next few pictures..
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0697_zps1dc9e004.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0698_zps448d4ec1.jpg

I ended up cutting my 034 cc hoses for the DV piping. 1" heater hose was too rigid and didn't want to bend how i wanted. The cc hoses had some nice 90deg. bends in them that worked really well.http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0700_zps70b92433.jpg


http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0699_zps8f910763.jpg

[kloeb2]

Here is a video of the first start. This is before I had the diverter valve on. It was a weekend and I had nothing left to do until I could weld my IC pipe at work. I figured i'd cut a piece of pvc and duct tape if in there just to see if it would start lol... Had a few vacuum and exhaust leaks.. and lots of running around checking for anything that looked fucked up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zdohcm3Yk_o

[kloeb2]

And how she looks today
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0705_zps5069448e.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0702_zpsd52f8a84.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0703_zps2f3f14e5.jpghttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0704_zpsbbb86eb9.jpg

I still want to take some good base logs and a vid of a wot pull

[ericpaulyoung]

It's been running pretty good. I'm still on the base file that I got from eurodyne. on cold starts it sounds like a fricken tractor, but I think an exhaust leak is causing a lot of that..


RS4 injectors or S3?

[ericpaulyoung]

Very nice

[evilsmile]

[kloeb2]

s3 of course ;)

[crazytex21]

Good to see another project. Now if i can only get mine really started...

[AudiA4_20T]

you made this look like a walk in the park

[crazytex21]

you made this look like a walk in the park

yup, i was thinking the same thing. he made it look like a 2 hour job.

[ericpaulyoung]

s3 of course ;)

I can send you my 24 psi file and you can test it out. The only big difference is that you have a catalytic converter, so the performance will be a little different (e.g., maybe not hit 24 at the same wastegate duty). Let me put it on my list of stuff to post online tonight when I get off work. I have around 1000 things stacked up right now and can't seem to get all it done, but I should get some test files up for people and poor Seal has been waiting over a month for me to look at his files :/ I feel like a slacker!

- Eric

[drumnjuny]

seriously awesome pictures, awesome build, i'm jealous of your ability in the garage haha. and i think i might even start my car today (for the first time in like 2 weeks, only drive it once or twice a month) and drive it around maybe give it a bath you've inspired me lol

[kloeb2]

yup, i was thinking the same thing. he made it look like a 2 hour job.

Thanks guys,
I actually made this thread and uploaded the pictures during real build time. I did the whole build last night. ;) JK of course.

It went smoothly because of all the other build threads and resources on here. Lots of researching and reading others builds. But believe me, not everything went as smoothly as it looks. I ran into a few snags here and there but I think the fact that this turbo/mani fit so well helped move things along immensely. Also, my grandpa nagging at me to get the car out of his garage made for some long nights working on the car.

Eric, that would be awesome if you could send your file. I know I should copy the maps somehow and not run your file directly, as it's meant for your ecu. Do you know if there is an easier way to do this other than to copy each value one by one?

Also, what is everyones running coolant temps? During mild traffic and highway cruising. Ever since I got the turbo on it seems to be running hotter (99c in traffic, down to 95 or so on the highway). Then again, I don't have any logs before the build to compare to.

[kloeb2]

seriously awesome pictures, awesome build, i'm jealous of your ability in the garage haha. and i think i might even start my car today (for the first time in like 2 weeks, only drive it once or twice a month) and drive it around maybe give it a bath you've inspired me lol

Do it!

Just noticed you have a p3cars guage for sale.. How come you're selling it? I need to get away from bringing my lap top every where with me just to monitor boost, temps etc.

[mec]

Do it!

Just noticed you have a p3cars guage for sale.. How come you're selling it? I need to get away from bringing my lap top every where with me just to monitor boost, temps etc.

hes trying to sell some stuff to fund his build. you should pick it up its a very good price

[ericpaulyoung]

hes trying to sell some stuff to fund his build. you should pick it up its a very good price

No, you should buy it and give it to me for my birthday! j/k

As for the tune, there is definitely an easier way. I can just export the maps from my file as .bin files, then you just open your tune, and import the maps one by one. Should take a total of 10 minutes.
Eric

[crazytex21]

Thanks guys,
I actually made this thread and uploaded the pictures during real build time. I did the whole build last night. ;) JK of course.

It went smoothly because of all the other build threads and resources on here. Lots of researching and reading others builds. But believe me, not everything went as smoothly as it looks. I ran into a few snags here and there but I think the fact that this turbo/mani fit so well helped move things along immensely. Also, my grandpa nagging at me to get the car out of his garage made for some long nights working on the car.

Eric, that would be awesome if you could send your file. I know I should copy the maps somehow and not run your file directly, as it's meant for your ecu. Do you know if there is an easier way to do this other than to copy each value one by one?

Also, what is everyones running coolant temps? During mild traffic and highway cruising. Ever since I got the turbo on it seems to be running hotter (99c in traffic, down to 95 or so on the highway). Then again, I don't have any logs before the build to compare to.

so about how long did the project take you? from removing the first bolt to starting her up?

[drumnjuny]

holy crap i drove my car today and it was awesome. took me 25 minutes to get it started but it was worth it, romped around and gave her a bath [up]

reason i'm selling is b/c my car barely starts and i have no money and i just want to be able to drive it so i'm at the point where i'm just going to have to take it to a shop and pay them to fix it, lol. haven't had much luck selling it to be honest so its up for sale for $350 ($569 new) in the classifieds if u wanna take a peek or PM me, its in really good condition

edit: it must have expired from the classifieds. damnit

[kloeb2]

so about how long did the project take you? from removing the first bolt to starting her up?


I don't remember the exact day I started it, but I think it was right around a month and three weeks total. I had planned out almost every nut and bolt that I would need to try to minimize downtime.

[kloeb2]

I'm gonna do a little reading about the p3 gauge and some other options. I'll keep you in mind Arjun. I do need gauges soon though..

Anyone see my question about coolant temps above?

[kloeb2]

Oh, and what are you guys using to plug your intake manifold (those of you running without the stock pcv). I had an aluminum plug with two o-rings in there that came with my 034 cc kit, but that popped out the first time I drove the car under moderate boost levels... Corks don't work either lol.

I have a rubber expandable plug that I got off mcmaster carr in there now that holds just fine, but I want to tap into the mani for boost reference.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0714_zps7f3f0ca7.jpg

[mec]

Round 200f

[ericpaulyoung]

Note these files are for S3 injectors, and I run a Synapse DV in pull mode (so I can hold a lot of pressure without flutter). Also I have low static compression ratio (8.5:1) and run 125 ml of meth starting at 200 g/s. So I don't pull any timing. Results may vary depending on if your setup can hold the pressure and not pull timing, but if you can run these tunes without pulling timing, they are solid. The 28 psi tune is a beta, and needs a little smoothing, but it is really fast.

As always, you can share and distribute as you like!

24 psi tune (good DD for a GTX 2863)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0dO8JDytq50NFUySTBQTWhVN1U/edit?usp=sharing

28 psi tune (my favorite so far, but a little choppy)
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0dO8JDytq50NWRUNXp1V0VMcGs/edit?usp=sharing

[kloeb2]

Wow, you're the man eric! I owe you a beer. Two if the tune works..

I just copied all the maps, but i noticed my base tune is missing some. All in the fueling category. (map sensor wizard, hpfp wizard, inj. wizard, lambda target vs temp, and the lpfp maps) Can I add these somehow?

[ericpaulyoung]

What year car do you have? Also, make sure you have downloaded the latest version of Maestro and installed it. If you installed the software in the last year, you "should" already have these maps showing up.

[ericpaulyoung]

Send me your tune at eric.paul.young at gmail.com and I will try and get the other maps into it if I can.

[ericpaulyoung]

Also, I am running a 3 bar MAP. The 28 psi tune uses a custom scaler and offset to control to the higher boost.

[kloeb2]

Ordered a 3 bar map sensor, bkr7eix plugs, n80 and a new cover thingy for my coil pack harness today. Mine was pretty crappy looking

I'm determined to get this thing running how i want it!

[ericpaulyoung]

Did you reset the MAP scaler and offset to the stock values?

- Eric

[kloeb2]

Yeah I reset them back to the 2.5 bar map settings (541 scalar, -16.40625 offset in case anyone was wondering) Still had a strange looking requested boost curve. and low actual boost all around and timing pull at the top end(expected). Feels generally sluggish. I think it has to do with the fact that I seem to be missing a couple maps in my base tune so I couldn't copy yours over 100%?

I just flashed back to my base tune (after I made some small changes) and did a 3rd gear pull. It seems to get pretty lean past 3480 rpm. This is when I got a couple misfires or are they fuel cuts?

Open to thoughts and suggestions.

Here are the logs. I took out the knock columns (all 0) so i could fit everything.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/3rdgear_zps96cfe991.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/3rdgear2_zps1e3b5d2c.jpg

[choochb5]

Your injection times seem high when boost comes on and it just keeps climbing. Log your high and low fuel pressure levels. It looks like the injectors are trying to compensate for low fuel pressure by staying open longer.

What does your fuel rail pressure map look like?

[kloeb2]

Here's my rail pressure map.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/railpressure_zps9067ac95.png

I don't have any current logs of the hpfp and lpfp right now. My laptop died on me on the way home from work thus killing my log session. But from previous logs, my requested vs actual rail pressures were very close. Usually within a couple bar from one another.

I'm gonna try to get some logs for the lpfp soon. If the rail has plenty of pressure, what else would cause injection times to be high?

[ericpaulyoung]

If you have fuel pressure (both low and high) then you have fuel. So that is the only reason you would get high pulse widths. Otherwise your lambda would be like .6 with a 11 injection time if it has plenty of fuel. I am with choochb5, and think it is low side pressure and high side pressure dropping.

- Eric

[choochb5]

That's definitely an upgraged HPFP rail pressure map, so that's fine.

Did you double check the part number on your S3 injectors? I run stock injectors on a K04. I'm just looking at some of my logs and at 240g of air flow, your injection times are similiar to mine.

Man the GTX moves a lot of air. You make 240g at 3800rpm and my K04 makes it at 6000rpm @19psi :(

[ericpaulyoung]

It is the map, but is he meeting the request? We need a log to see if you are making the pressure.

[ericpaulyoung]

It is the map, but is he meeting the request? We need a log to see if you are making the pressure.

actually I think that is stock requested pressure.

[choochb5]

Fuel pressure definitely needs to be verified. Just wanted to make sure he wasn't running the stock rail pressure map. The injector thing was just another thought that popped in my head.

The stock fuel rail pressure map maxes out at 110bar.

[ericpaulyoung]

Damn, I honestly never looked at a stock map, but I thought the newer b7 cars requested up to 120 or 130. Learn something every day! :)

[kloeb2]

Thanks gentlemen. I've actually got the turbo off again to try to fix the manifold to turbo vband leak so I won't be able to pull logs for day or two. That thing just wont stop leaking argh.., I kinda wishing I got the other manifold with the t3 (i think its t3) flange on it. O well, I'm gonna try some high temp rtv and a new vband clamp.

But from previous logs I do think that the hpfp is keeping up. Then again, I think I only maxed out at 200g/s or so on those logs. We shall see.

[ericpaulyoung]

Have you modified your LPFP system? You will need to if you plan on any large power. You can either drop in the USP solution or make your own kit with an RS4 controller and a new pump. They are about the same cost, but the USP is the most drop in friendly.

- Eric

[kloeb2]

I have not modified my LPFP system. I was under the impression that I wouldn't need to for 300-350 AWHP. It's not something I really planned on doing. But I will if necessary. I've seen the usp kit. Looks like a nice and fairly simple drop in solution. I do want to eventually run with methanol so it may be a good idea. How is it controlled though? Maestro allows lpfp control now right? Again though, I'll need to log it.

On a side note, For those of those installing the atp vband manifold and turbo, make sure you check the mating surfaces and lip on the manifold for burrs, dings etc. I had been getting a nasty exhaust leak that was coming from the vband area. I looked closer at the connection and noticed two burrs and a couple dings on the lip that weren't letting it seal properly. I dremeled a nice chamfer on the lip of the manifold and grinded the burrs off. Don't know if this was an installation error or if it came from atp like that. Just a heads up for those with this mani/turbo

[kloeb2]

So my fueling is all jacked up... hpfp dips to 74 bar at wot, then skyrockets to 154. I think it is evident my lpfp isn't supplying enough fuel. In the log below I have a very rough 1-2-part of 3rd gear cruise. Not WOT. But i was pushing it pretty hard. Everything looks good until around 4200 rpm in second. lpfp pressure starts to dip, as well as hpfp pressure. Then it seems to fall flat on it's face then skyrockets to to 154. Then I think the prv starting bleeding off pressure. After this shaky run, I figured I better not try nailing it in 3rd gear. I completely forgot to log the lpfp duty cycle while I was out. But I imagine it's probably maxed out..

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/Fuellog_zpsffa3e5a8.jpg


Soooo.. I think I need a higher flowing lpfp.

[ericpaulyoung]

Yup. You shouldn't drop below 3 bar ever, and definitely not have 11 ms injection times. You need LPFP solution bro.

[ericpaulyoung]

You should aim for sufficient fuel supply to allow less then 9 ms at WOT at redline.

[kloeb2]

Yeah and I just filled up the tank too. Ugh..Gonna have to do some easy crusing to drop the level.. or siphon it into my saab haha

looking at either the USP drop in kit or RS4 controller and OEM pump. I'm leaning towards USP's kit though since it looks so simple.

[kloeb2]

So, I'm still waiting on parts... synapse dv, tbolt clamps, boost tap, map sensor etc.... And I contacted tapp and asked him why I don't have lpfp maps in my tune. I guess my ecu's base tune doesn't have them yet, but he is going to include them in the next release (a few weeks). So I'm gonna wait for that and mess with the pump duty cycle before pulling the trigger on a new pump..

Then this happened today to my DD....
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0754_zps42bbc968.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0752_zps94c8066a.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0755_zpsf72bb068.jpg

That damn deer came out of nowhere. Didn't even kill it. Just walked right into the woods after. It's a 96 saab 900se btw and I Just washed and waxed it over the weekend too...

Guess I have to drive the audi for a while.. Oh first world problems..

[seal66]

Damn man that sucks. I am guessing insurance is going to fix or total it? I remember when I smoked the deer in my audi, both came out bad.

[kloeb2]

A couple updates...
Got 1250 from insurance for the Saab. Spent 200 for windshield 40 for mirror. Left the fender dented. Bam 1000 to go towards clutch and flywheel!

Got my Synapse DV installed. Pull mode with ports a and b connected. Seems to be holding boost mucch better. Started hearing a whistle noise at 10psi and up. Any synapse users have this?

Also got my RS4 controller in today. The car runs MUCH better. Before I was getting fuel cuts when wot, high injection times and fluctuating rail pressures. Install was a piece of cake too. I was gonna make a DIY but it's too easy to mess up.

Heres a log from a drive i took today after getting the controller in. The HPFP still seems to be struggling with keeping high enough rail pressures, but the low pressure side doesn't dip below 3 bar and the car runs so much better. logs still look kinda off though.

Edit: Just realized the titles/colors for injection time and lpfp are switched in the graph below.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/afterrs4_zpsd6d34586.jpg

[ericpaulyoung]

If you set your minimum low pressure requested to 5 bar, you will clear pretty much everything up. And the RS4 controller can handle it no problem.

-Eric

[kloeb2]

I wish I could. I still don't have LPFP control in maestro. Tapp said it isn't available for my ecu yet (hes working on it apparently). But I don't understand how some b7's have it and others don't..

[ericpaulyoung]

That makes zero sense. What is you hardware # and Firmware #?

[drumnjuny]

sheet. that could be bad news for me also

[kloeb2]

cable# 3758911473
firmware# 1.2

[ericpaulyoung]

An, sorry. I mean the ECU numbers :)

[kloeb2]

8E0910115P ecu part number

[ericpaulyoung]

Mine is
MED9 TFSI Part # : 8E1910115G

Anybody else have a "P" revision and running maestro?

The funny part is that "P" is from a 2007 and Tapp hasn't decoded the LPFP maps yet. He has found the map addresses for 2005 vehicles and my 2008 vehicle, but not the 2007. So it can't be a lot different, and I am sure he will have it figured out pretty soon.

- Eric

[kloeb2]

Hmmm interesting. Seems strange to not have it available for one year of ecus. Guess i'll just have to wait a little longer. He said a couple weeks a couple weeks ago... So should be available soon.

[drumnjuny]

fuuuuuuck me. idk if eurodyne is the best at reaching deadlines. plus if you think about it, there's no way to know when it will be figured out. just gotta be patient and wait i suppose... that sucks ass for me though lol. now i'm not sure what to do

[kloeb2]

Yup. I suppose all we can do is wait. Kinda sucks being at a stand still where I can't do anything.

Whats your ecu p/n? 07?

[ericpaulyoung]

Are you a 2007 with a "P" ECU also? I actually have your RAI file Arjun, and I just checked and the LPFP is not there. So send Tapp an email and tell him you need control over the LPFP to fix a WOT lean condition.

[drumnjuny]

not sure, how do i find the ecu part #? RAI File was created before anybody had LPFP control, and they didn't use it through maestro anyway b/c of the BMP

[kloeb2]

YES! Flood his inbox with emails about this!

All you 07 p rev ecus with maestro unite!

[drumnjuny]

haha yeah i will. i don't get it, does he have to activate it on the maestro file itself? Or if i download the latest Maestro tuning suite software will it have it in there?

does that mean the tuning suite software is different for each ECU #?

[rarak69]

8E0910115P 0020
0261S02224
1037386454

KFFLAF = 0x1D8D40
KFNTBKS = 0x1D8EA8

[drumnjuny]

fuck me. ECU part number 8E0910115P

[kloeb2]

rarak, do you have lpfp control? What are those two addresses?

I fixed some boost leaks recently and did some more logging. Seems to be running pretty rich. Down to .72 lambda at WOT. Also misfiring/backfiring when heavy on the throttle and during high loads. Would the rich condition cause this? I tired closing the gap on my bkr7eix's to .028, but that didn't change anything.

edit: here are logs from yesterday https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw-rwWWf1eC0dVdlWWlkT19Uem8/edit?usp=sharing

[kloeb2]

This thing is awesome! I've been needing to test for boost leaks for a while and finally got around to making this. Found 3 leaks lol. A big one at the tb coupling and two at the dv.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0813_zpsebd7d75a.jpg

Also some comparison pictures of the oem controller and RS4 controller
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0808_zps260d4cd1.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0803_zpsedefd69b.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0801_zpscd41a7c7.jpg

And then the synapse. Using it in pull mode with ports a and b connected. Holds boost great and releases with an interesting chirp sound. Also wired two 100ohm 10 watt resistors in series then bent the ends and inserted into dv plug. No codes or anything (thanks for the help on this eric).


http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0774_zps90982648.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0777_zpse08a13c8.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0778_zps72a1443c.jpg

[ericpaulyoung]

Rarak does full "real" tuning with the actual files. So as long as he knows the addresses, he has absolute control. He is "in the matrix" so to say.

[drumnjuny]

Rarak does full "real" tuning with the actual files. So as long as he knows the addresses, he has absolute control. He is "in the matrix" so to say.

lmao. well i emailed tapp

[rarak69]

rarak, do you have lpfp control? What are those two addresses?

I fixed some boost leaks recently and did some more logging. Seems to be running pretty rich. Down to .72 lambda at WOT. Also misfiring/backfiring when heavy on the throttle and during high loads. Would the rich condition cause this? I tired closing the gap on my bkr7eix's to .028, but that didn't change anything.

edit: here are logs from yesterday https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw-rwWWf1eC0dVdlWWlkT19Uem8/edit?usp=sharing

they were the LPFP control maps that are used to adjust the LPFP control.

i was beeing a smarty arty and posting them so you can send them to tapp :P since it seems like an inconvenience for him to add them, which took 45 seconds to define.

[rarak69]

Rarak does full "real" tuning with the actual files. So as long as he knows the addresses, he has absolute control. He is "in the matrix" so to say.

sure wish tapp would just release ability to add your own maps and search the binary. that would be SICK.

but then that would put me out of business [evilmad]

[mec]

sure wish tapp would just release ability to add your own maps and search the binary. that would be SICK.

but then that would put me out of business [evilmad]

Let's all just be patient, Chris tapp is a wonderful respectful guy and lets not forget patient, he would never hang up the phone on a customer, his first priority is customer satisfaction and helping everyone who has supported him, he would definitely not leave you in the dark for making a request or asking for help, sure I sent him a request 4 months ago and am still waiting for him to answer 7 questions, but I'm sure he will get it done within the next year or two

#sarcasm
#maestroneedscompetition
#goodproductpoorcustomersupport
#shouldhavegottenacustomtune
#CHRISTAPPANSWERMYEMAIL!

[ericpaulyoung]

Well, maestro is rolling out to be the Cobb of VW. The product allows sufficient control for an amateur like me to creep and crawl to a very smooth setup, but refinements and a roadmap would be a god send for a person just picking it up. If you want real control you have to go all in like Rarak, or pay someone like him who is willing to spend a good part of a few years learning the system. The Motronic ECU is not simple, and the coordination and sometimes competing functions make for a complex control system. This is to say a bitch of a mistress, but one that will spin bottle caps on her steel hard nipples if you know how to whisper to her the right way. Tapp is doing some very great things rolling out control for us amateurs to grip this girl in the right way; for this I say he has his pass in the VW community forever. He is the first to pull this control over to us, so to look a gift horse in the mouth is a bit folly and I say knocking him is bad form. Is there a better path? Of course. But ask Rarak what it took to get to his level. That shit ain't easy.

[drumnjuny]

sure wish tapp would just release ability to add your own maps and search the binary. that would be SICK.

but then that would put me out of business [evilmad]

HOLY SHIT MAYBE I'm JUST STILL DRUNK FROM LAST NIGHT BUT ............ CAN YOU PLEASE DO ME A HUGE FAVOR AND CALL HIM AND TELL HIM WHERE THE BINARY IS THAT HAS THE LPFP MAP SO HE CAN LOCATE THAT SHIT AND PUT IT IN MAESTRO FOR MY ECU NUMBER?????

[kloeb2]

I dont know. I asked him over a month ago to do something that seems pretty simple. But what pisses me off is that he won't even respond to my emails. To me it makes sense to continue developing tunes for all b7 years rather than quit halfway through. There seems to be a lot missing in my 07 tune when compared to any other year b7's.

But aside from the LPFP fueling issue, I've been playing the the ve and boost duty maps. Starting to figure out what does what :) got a pretty Nice 22 psi curve goin.

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2

[drumnjuny]

does anyone know what his phone number is?

edit: Ph. 613-225-8780 Extension 14 on his website lulz.

i'll try to call him tomorrow and see what's good...

[mec]

extension 14?? hahahahahah I didn't know a one man operation needed extensions

[ericpaulyoung]

My extension at my house is 10! :/














The first nine are for my Johnson.

[kloeb2]

Ah i see an extension for each cm.

I'm assuming tapp is in an office building with a common receptionist/answering service.

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2

[ericpaulyoung]

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/0D371CC8-DCBF-4E5E-BB15-E3DC7FF98D13-11705-00000BA07C59FA1F_zps646783d3.jpg

[mec]

Ah i see an extension for each cm.

I'm assuming tapp is in an office building with a common receptionist/answering service.

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2

Welcome to Eurodyne support. Please listen to following options and dial the number that best fits your needs.

Ext 1: Sales
Hello, This is Chris Tapp, how may I sell you something today?
Ext 2: Tech Support
Hi, This is Chris Tapp, did you search the whole interwebs before calling me because seriously you should already know everything about my products before calling.
Ext 3: Research and Development
Tapp here, we can't release any information about anything.
Ext 4: Customer Service
You've reached an automated voice message system, Chris Tapp is out of the office, if you leave a detailed voice message with your name and number we will be sure to maybe get back to you.
Ext 5:...etc

[kloeb2]

Oh come on.. I'm sure he's trying his hardest [rolleyes]

Clutch came today. drakes stage 4. Long lead time on the stg 5's so i decided to get the 4. I need clutch bad. Waiting on flywheel now.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0815_zpsce2a7f39.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0816_zps92d4ce2f.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0817_zps85f8aab5.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0818_zpseb15a721.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/IMAG0819_zps15ed4ac1.jpg

Never seen a kevlar clutch with this pattern before... looks.. interesting.

[aluthman]

My Drake's stage 4 clutch will be here tomorrow. I can't wait [:D]

[mec]

clutch looks sick! what flywheel did you get? CM Steel?

[kloeb2]

Yesss the steely

[kloeb2]

But I really don't want to do the swap in my garage on jackstands... Anyone in the Chicago area have access to a lift?

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2

[kloeb2]

LPFP maps

"Added, will be up later today."

-Chris Tapp

[drumnjuny]

got the same email! baller!!

[mec]

But I really don't want to do the swap in my garage on jackstands... Anyone in the Chicago area have access to a lift?

Sent from my HTC Hero S using Tapatalk 2

you could always use ramps ;)

[ericpaulyoung]

LPFP maps

"Added, will be up later today."

-Chris Tapp


Awesome

[mightemouce]

Oh come on.. I'm sure he's trying his hardest [rolleyes]

Clutch came today. drakes stage 4. Long lead time on the stg 5's so i decided to get the 4. I need clutch bad. Waiting on flywheel now.
Never seen a kevlar clutch with this pattern before... looks.. interesting.

I got my hands on a stage 5 [:D]
Still isn't in my car yet trying to get all my fueling issues sorted out first

[kloeb2]

wanna trade? :D

I'll probably do the install in my garage, but I like complaining before i get around to it

Haven't had a chance to play with fuel pressure and requested duties yet in maestro, but hopefully ill be able to tonight

[aluthman]

LPFP maps

"Added, will be up later today."

-Chris Tapp

Not for my ECU [=(] I emailed him and he said he could add it in the next revision if I needed it.

[ericpaulyoung]

Not for my ECU [=(] I emailed him and he said he could add it in the next revision if I needed it.

"if you needed it" ??
Did you tell him YES, that is the whole point of tuning software. :)

[kloeb2]

Anyone know the min and max voltages for 0 and 3 bar for the 3 bar map sensor? I want to verify that I'm using the right scalar and offset numbers. Right now I'm using 658.828125 and -63.515625. I think the max voltage is 5v but not sure about the min.

How do you get the ecu to request greater than 22.5 psi through maestro? I'm looking to get somewhere around 25.

[ericpaulyoung]

If you install a 3 bar MAP, and use a scaler and offset of 510 and 170, you will actually be requesting 30 psi

[kloeb2]

But my logs will still show 22.5 for requested, when it will actually be 30?

I need to get a real boost gauge before I blow something up

[drumnjuny]

EPY, those aren't the same numbers you gave me today, right? lol. my N75 has been unplugged for a long time so it doesn't really matter right now

[kloeb2]

GUYS!

My LPFP system is on steroids... tried rewriting the duty map and requested pressure map last night, flashed a tune today and here are some graphs. Idling around 7 bar. The lpfp pressure can't be correct can it? This doesn't make sense. I still get that dip in the rail even though I have 5.5 bar at peak airflow...

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/Fueling_zps13fb08b4.jpg

Cant really see it here but peak boost is 22.5 around 3500rpm

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/Boost_zps2ec45193.jpg

[kloeb2]

By the way... current set up is oem lpfp, s3 injectors, rs4 lpfp controller, 145 bar rail valve, new fuel filter.

[ericpaulyoung]

7 bar is a boy high. I use requested of 5.5 bar. But damn, looks like the RS4 controller can drive the OEM pump like an Egyptian Pharos !

[ericpaulyoung]

Wait, you are pushing almost 300 g/s at 22 psi!!!!!

Holy shit

[ericpaulyoung]

Oh wait, did you use the scaling values I gave you?

[kloeb2]

I know!! I was so surprised by that. at 5600 rpm too! I don't know how accurate our maf sensors are, but dam..

This is with the stock 2 1/2 bar map values.

[ericpaulyoung]

Do you have the 3 bar map installed, and using the scaling values I gave you?

[kloeb2]

I put the stock map sensor back in and i'm using stock values. Though I should get the 22.5 psi tune "perfect" before moving higher

My requested is set to 4.5 bar at idle.. nothing is really corresponding to what I have in the maestro maps.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/lpfp_zps9b90b2fb.jpg

[ericpaulyoung]

Well you are going way past 22.5 psi, but you will never know how much unless you have the 3 bar MAP in. The OEM map will top out at 22.5, then you can be anywhere above this. If you had 35 psi, the OEM MAP would still read 22.5, and if you were at 23 psi, the OEM MAP would still read 22.5. You are off the map. More then likely, if you are pushing close to 300 g/s, you are somewhere between 26 and 30 psi.

Eric

[ericpaulyoung]

Definitely put the 3 bar MAP in. Set the scaler and offset to the correct values, and let's see what pressure you are actually running. Otherwise you have no control :/ Not good.

Eric

[kloeb2]

Yeah that makes sense. I knew it sounded too good to be true. I'll try the 3 bar map.

[ericpaulyoung]

I bet you that baby is fast though !

[ericpaulyoung]

Also try and set the whole low pressure map to 5 bar. It is unusual, but I don't think Maestro sets this map correctly.

[ericpaulyoung]

This is how I set up my 30 psi tune. You install the 3 bar map, use the values specified above, and you show the ECU "fake" values of pressure reading so that it will control to the value you want even though it is not actually the pressure that is found in the manifold.


http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/scaledmap_zps74c8cba0.jpg (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/ericpaulyoung/media/scaledmap_zps74c8cba0.jpg.html)

[ericpaulyoung]

The cross over point in the real and fake values in the setup are very important for driving smoothly in low load conditions; it is not accidental.
-Eric

[mightemouce]

This is how I set up my 30 psi tune. You install the 3 bar map, use the values specified above, and you show the ECU "fake" values of pressure reading so that it will control to the value you want even though it is not actually the pressure that is found in the manifold.


http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/scaledmap_zps74c8cba0.jpg (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/ericpaulyoung/media/scaledmap_zps74c8cba0.jpg.html)

This could be a stupid question or maybe I'm just looking at the graph wrong but why even install the 3 map if you are scaling it down so the ecu still sees the same amount of boost?

I haven't looked into using a larger map on the med9 at all yet but I know on the me7s they are installing 4 bar maps and able to read much higher boost levels after reformatting a few tables.

[rarak69]

As of standard(not hacking tables) you cannot request more than 2550 mbar(1.5 bar pressure) aka, 22.5 psi. this is boost REQUEST. Even if you fit an s3 map, you can log and the ecu sees more than that, however it cannot do much with it.

you can still have accurate boost control over top of factory 2.5 bar map sensor, by "hardwiring" as some say the boost duty tables, but the most important part is to appropriate scale the AXIS of hpa to properly get the smooth control at higher boost level you desire.

[ericpaulyoung]

This could be a stupid question or maybe I'm just looking at the graph wrong but why even install the 3 map if you are scaling it down so the ecu still sees the same amount of boost?

The 3 bar MAP allows you to measure the pressure where an OEM MAP won't. So you can scale the signal coming out of the 3 bar MAP to utilize the ECU's PID control system to control to that signal. Basically the ECU will measure the signals, calculate an error, then adjust the parameters to reduce the error. What the signals represent in reality is really up to us. So you just send a signal to the ECU saying control to a given signal value at 2, 3, 4, and 5 volts (etc.), and it will. With a 3 bar MAP installed and the scaling values I mentioned, this will result in the ECU controlling to about 30 psi. It is what I use in my car, and the system works very good. My ECU keeps adjusting the wastegate duty to keep my MAP signal at what it "thinks" is 22.5 psi, but is actually 30 psi. Surprisingly it works very good.

- Eric

[ericpaulyoung]

You can actually change the scaled values to make the ECU control to anything you like. I have tried 24 psi, 26 psi, and 30 psi, and they all control great.

[mightemouce]

AhOk makes more sense now

[kloeb2]

So here's a quick log from today. I installed the 3 bar map and used a scalar of 510 and 170. Also change my VE curve a little and decreased the lpfp duty cycle map by 10% all around. Fueling seems to be good now. I wasn't able to log via vagcom (just maestro) but lambda is being met and injection times are around 7 ms. Seems good..

But she is boosting like mad. The scalar and offset i'm using are not working for my car, but even if they were way off, boost readings should not be affected this much. 510 is not far off from the stock 541 slope. Boost is reading verrry low. Maybe my map sensor is crap? I'm gonna play around with some other values and see what happens.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/222_zps74558c55.png

[ericpaulyoung]

For the 3 bar MAP, you should start with the correct values for it, and work your way up. The actual values are 658.8281 and an offset of
-63.5156

[ericpaulyoung]

Try that first. The 510 170 set is what works with my setup, yours will be different depending on several factors. I was hoping it would be closer, but it looks like you will have to work your way up. Are you using the max VE and boost duty tables that I sent out earlier? As a minimum the three should be used as a set. You can pull all three out of my latest file ( I will email it to you )

[kloeb2]

I'm using your boost duty map from a 24 psi tune you sent me a while back. The VE curve is something i made..
[email protected]

[ericpaulyoung]

Try all three from the file I just sent you. Also import the pedal map.

[ericpaulyoung]

Do you have a 1 bar wastegate spring?

[kloeb2]

Yeah, I have the 1 bar wastegate spring.. Just tried what you sent me with the actual 3 bar map values. No difference. The car is fast as hell but uncontrollable. Actual boost still reads well below requested (peaks at 10)..
I'm gonna try a new 3 bar map. Right now thats the only hardware that has changed recently. I'm turning into a junkie. I flashed 4 tunes today. One at 6am before work lol

[ericpaulyoung]

Hehe, yup know the feeling. Did you try the pedal map?

[kloeb2]

It's been a while since i've updated with recent logs...

New additions include a dw300 lpfp..Being the last thing to replace in my fueling system i was hoping that it would fix my low pressure problems.. and thats exactly what it did. The car is getting plenty of fuel now and holding pressure all around [:D]

Also got a new 3 bar map sensor. The problems I was having with my first one was because the fucka cracked/ popped off, and left a nice sized leak and the little circuit board just hanging there... This caused erroneous readings.

Installed a new 3 bar map sensor and used the scalars and offsets provided by eric to scale for 30 psi.

Here is a log from an hour or so ago. I pulled 4th to about 6k then some of 5th before letting off.. All on a closed track of course... [rolleyes]

I looks like i peak around 27 psi in fourth and pull a decent amount of timing... then 5th gear is weird. Something is limiting my boost, even though requested is still 30 psi. n75 duty drops to 4.7 and is held there even though im wot.. Anyone experience this before? Something seems amiss. Any suggestions?

links to logs and current maestro file.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw-rwWWf1eC0cVk1bm1ZX0U5bjg/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bw-rwWWf1eC0Snh2V2g5dHBvX0U/edit?usp=sharing

[aluthman]

This is how I set up my 30 psi tune. You install the 3 bar map, use the values specified above, and you show the ECU "fake" values of pressure reading so that it will control to the value you want even though it is not actually the pressure that is found in the manifold.


http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/w381/ericpaulyoung/scaledmap_zps74c8cba0.jpg (http://s1073.photobucket.com/user/ericpaulyoung/media/scaledmap_zps74c8cba0.jpg.html)

Eric, can you explain the scalar and offset numbers in Maestro and how they relate to this graph? I understand what you're doing conceptually, but I don't know how to actually go about making educated changes. How did you come up with your scalar and offset of 510 and 170? I seem to be missing a large piece of the puzzle here.

[ericpaulyoung]

--I have to go dig out my spreadsheet, but in short you have a linear relationship between volts and pressure p=mx+b. In meastro you specify m and b, so you can line up what the MAP sensor really sees to values you want the ECU to think it sees.

For example you can set it up so that when the MAP sensor picks up 2500 mbar and outputs x volts, the ECU thinks the MAP is saying 2000 mbar. So the PID in the ECU controls to 2000 mbar but is unknowingly actually controlling to 2500 mbar.

In short you just rescale the MAP sensor m and b values to trick the ECU.
epy

[aluthman]

Ok, that makes sense. Scalar is m and offset is b I'm assuming. How can I determine the voltage the MAP outputs for a specific pressure? I'm assuming 2550 mbar is 5v (on stock MAP), but I would like at least one more solid point of reference to go with.

[kloeb2]

We have the scalar (541) and offset (-16.406) for the 2.5 bar map. Pressure= (MAP voltage * scalar) + offset. So Pressure= (541*voltage)-16.407. Pick any voltage or pressure you want, plug it in and get the corresponding pressure or voltage respectively.

So if you wanted the voltage output at 2000mbar.. 2000mbar= 541x-16.407 gives a voltage of 3.7 volts.

[ultraleggera a4]

So what would happen if you threw the 3 bar map sensor in without recalibrating it?

[aluthman]

My theory says if your tune requested 22 psi and you threw the 3 bar map in w/o recalibration it you would now be requesting ~29 psi.

[mec]

So what would happen if you threw the 3 bar map sensor in without recalibrating it?

Your car will run like shit. It won't know what boost actually is.

[seal66]

When did you go gtx?

[mec]

When did you go gtx?

Last year? Maybe year and a half? I don't think he has been around much, but id definitely love to hear his input on the gtx2863

[seal66]

Ya no kidding. Curious to see what he gets out of it

[ultraleggera a4]

Your car will run like shit. It won't know what boost actually is.

So, I had to find out for myself. I did some research on how the neuspeed power module works and found that the upgraded sensor provides the same benefits. I installed the 3 bar MAP sensor and wow my car ran better than I could have imagined.

[mec]

So, I had to find out for myself. I did some research on how the neuspeed power module works and found that the upgraded sensor provides the same benefits. I installed the 3 bar MAP sensor and wow my car ran better than I could have imagined.

None of the above makes sense....

Neuspeed power module?? Isn't that for the TSI engines? whole different system than ours.

Installing a 3 bar map sensor does not increase power, and it does not make you have smoother delivery or idle or anything....especially for you, You can manage 23 psi perfectly fine on a stock map sensor, on a k03 you shouldn't be higher than this. the s3 map sensor allows you to read past 23 psi, so if you ran higher pressure it would allow the ECU to read it, but you really don't need it for stock turbo. Hell I'm on a gtx pushing 30 psi and I don't use it.

[ultraleggera a4]

None of the above makes sense....

Neuspeed power module?? Isn't that for the TSI engines? whole different system than ours.

Installing a 3 bar map sensor does not increase power, and it does not make you have smoother delivery or idle or anything....especially for you, You can manage 23 psi perfectly fine on a stock map sensor, on a k03 you shouldn't be higher than this. the s3 map sensor allows you to read past 23 psi, so if you ran higher pressure it would allow the ECU to read it, but you really don't need it for stock turbo. Hell I'm on a gtx pushing 30 psi and I don't use it.

Trust me I'll just have to show you, and I spike @ ~25 psi sometime 26. I'm not joking. Anyways there is some magic happening. Yes the power module is for the tsi but the way the piggyback interferes with the map sensor is essentially the same process for most piggybacks. @ 25 psi my ecu thinks it's 21 psi now.

Also have you tried it? I wasn't expecting any changes but it did do something.

[seal66]

You know I boost around 28-29psi. My car is actually requesting 30psi. Little turbo just don't quite have it in her up here. Anyways the stock maF well read just fine

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[mec]

Trust me I'll just have to show you, and I spike @ ~25 psi sometime 26. I'm not joking. Anyways there is some magic happening. Yes the power module is for the tsi but the way the piggyback interferes with the map sensor is essentially the same process for most piggybacks. @ 25 psi my ecu thinks it's 21 psi now.

Also have you tried it? I wasn't expecting any changes but it did do something.


yes I have tried it, I have both an 3 bar and a stock map sensor. It literally does nothing. Think about it this way, Your turbo will spool as fast as it can given proper n75 duty, so there is no improvement in spool by switching the map sensor. fuel is calculated based off what the maf is reading in, and timing is calculated based off load also from the maf and RPM.

Now you have a sensor that tells you that X volts = 20 psi. Lets say x is 3 volts. When you put in the larger map sensor. The voltage for 20 psi is no longer the same. So what happens? Well depending on your scalar and offset, you are either reading way high or way low, so now your engine is getting 2v, because 2v on the 3 bar map is 20 psi, but the ecu isn't calibrated to read 2v as 20 psi, it thinks 3v is 20 psi so now it thinks you are underboosting. What happens? its going to kick up n75 duty cycle, Of course IIRC you already have boost duty set to 100%, so there is no gain.

Literally all the sensor does is allow the ecu to read higher than 22.5 psi. there is exactly absolutely 0 hp to gain from a proper tune.

[ultraleggera a4]

yes I have tried it, I have both an 3 bar and a stock map sensor. It literally does nothing. Think about it this way, Your turbo will spool as fast as it can given proper n75 duty, so there is no improvement in spool by switching the map sensor. fuel is calculated based off what the maf is reading in, and timing is calculated based off load also from the maf and RPM.

Now you have a sensor that tells you that X volts = 20 psi. Lets say x is 3 volts. When you put in the larger map sensor. The voltage for 20 psi is no longer the same. So what happens? Well depending on your scalar and offset, you are either reading way high or way low, so now your engine is getting 2v, because 2v on the 3 bar map is 20 psi, but the ecu isn't calibrated to read 2v as 20 psi, it thinks 3v is 20 psi so now it thinks you are underboosting. What happens? its going to kick up n75 duty cycle, Of course IIRC you already have boost duty set to 100%, so there is no gain.

Literally all the sensor does is allow the ecu to read higher than 22.5 psi. there is exactly absolutely 0 hp to gain from a proper tune.

It's weird because the stock sensor showed 25 psi on my ppd before I changed it out and i dont use a vacuum line. Also I have a mechanical boost gauge and that reads exactly the same as the ppd before I changed to the 3 bar sensor. Even so explain how your car is able to run if the maf is unplugged. Here is the thing, you know my car is not tuned for 100% n75 duty even though I don't have it connected it still tries to keep my boost actual in line with the requested boost. So to make the ecu happy and keep it thinking I'm not hitting requested boost, I put the 3 bar map sensor. I'm going to have to do some logs, however I'm certain it changed my cars performance positively.

[mec]

It's weird because the stock sensor showed 25 psi on my ppd before I changed it out and i dont use a vacuum line. Also I have a mechanical boost gauge and that reads exactly the same as the ppd before I changed to the 3 bar sensor. Even so explain how your car is able to run if the maf is unplugged. Here is the thing, you know my car is not tuned for 100% n75 duty even though I don't have it connected it still tries to keep my boost actual in line with the requested boost. So to make the ecu happy and keep it thinking I'm not hitting requested boost, I put the 3 bar map sensor. I'm going to have to do some logs, however I'm certain it changed my cars performance positively.

Go log your car's RPM sensor in TURBO mode using VCDS. 2000-7000, then do it again on the stock map sensor. I guarantee you it is the same RPM time, or worse on the s3 map sensor.

[aluthman]

Maybe his old MAP sensor was broken/defective and now it is functional?

[rkesh88]

I wanna see some snumbers from OPs setup. He makes it look so easy in his install and work

[mec]

I wanna see some snumbers from OPs setup. He makes it look so easy in his install and work

Hey yeah, we never even heard if it started.

[kloeb2]

Oh hey guys... I'm still around

Whacho talkin bout mec? Ive been driving the car on and off since i finished the build...I even have a startup vid in this thread! AND you sold me your ste ppd a few months ago!

Not a single turbo or engine problem since putting everything on. Just an oil leak or two that have since been cleaned up. I've done a few things and change it up a bit and haven't updated the thread at all.

The car is currently on stands while i finish up my meth install. Still have to design a few parts for it. Also have to bleed the clutch again.

I don't have any numbers. Big hp numbers aren't really my goal as much as having a solid fast reliable dd. My tune changes every week but usually i have it set around 25-26 psi which puts out around 290 g/s. Timing is stupid conservative right now so I'm looking forward to playing with that once i get the meth set up working.

ultraleggera I am certain that the 3bar map sensor alone did not increase performance.

[mec]

Oh hey guys... I'm still around

Whacho talkin bout mec? Ive been driving the car on and off since i finished the build...I even have a startup vid in this thread! AND you sold me your ste ppd a few months ago!

Not a single turbo or engine problem since putting everything on. Just an oil leak or two that have since been cleaned up. I've done a few things and change it up a bit and haven't updated the thread at all.

The car is currently on stands while i finish up my meth install. Still have to design a few parts for it. Also have to bleed the clutch again.

I don't have any numbers. Big hp numbers aren't really my goal as much as having a solid fast reliable dd. My tune changes every week but usually i have it set around 25-26 psi which puts out around 290 g/s. Timing is stupid conservative right now so I'm looking forward to playing with that once i get the meth set up working.

ultraleggera I am certain that the 3bar map sensor alone did not increase performance.


Ahh man thats aawesome. I sometimes wish I would have gone with a 63. I forgot I sold you the PPD, someone told me that Sean@ PPD went out of business or stopped selling them and I was trying to remember I sold mine too. How's she been? My finances finally picked back up, and I was able to buy another one, Got a vfiz this time, its pretty neat, but I do miss the boost recall feature from the ppd.

[ultraleggera a4]

Oh hey guys... I'm still around

Whacho talkin bout mec? Ive been driving the car on and off since i finished the build...I even have a startup vid in this thread! AND you sold me your ste ppd a few months ago!

Not a single turbo or engine problem since putting everything on. Just an oil leak or two that have since been cleaned up. I've done a few things and change it up a bit and haven't updated the thread at all.

The car is currently on stands while i finish up my meth install. Still have to design a few parts for it. Also have to bleed the clutch again.

I don't have any numbers. Big hp numbers aren't really my goal as much as having a solid fast reliable dd. My tune changes every week but usually i have it set around 25-26 psi which puts out around 290 g/s. Timing is stupid conservative right now so I'm looking forward to playing with that once i get the meth set up working.

ultraleggera I am certain that the 3bar map sensor alone did not increase performance.

Well I'm certain it did, maybe I notice it more due to my small turbo but it spools up even fastest, even under partial throttle it wants to spike. Martin when is the next get together, so you can feel it for yourself I'll change it out and you can beat on my car, I think that's the only way you'll believe me. I wish you would take my word for but I'll explain my crazy Bosch knowledge when I see you.

[mec]

Well I'm certain it did, maybe I notice it more due to my small turbo but it spools up even fastest, even under partial throttle it wants to spike. Martin when is the next get together, so you can feel it for yourself I'll change it out and you can beat on my car, I think that's the only way you'll believe me. I wish you would take my word for but I'll explain my crazy Bosch knowledge when I see you.

I'd believe some logs, the only gains to be had form upgrading the sensor are from improper boost calibrations. I dk when the next g2g is....oktdubberfest just happened. I'm sure someone will put together a cruise before the snow starts falling though. Other than that I might hit the track again in october.

[ultraleggera a4]

I'd believe some logs, the only gains to be had form upgrading the sensor are from improper boost calibrations. I dk when the next g2g is....oktdubberfest just happened. I'm sure someone will put together a cruise before the snow starts falling though. Other than that I might hit the track again in october.

Well I don't have vagcom right now and I'm too lazy to take out the ppd, so if you want I can meet you on a weekend or something to do some logs.

[mec]

For sure. I'll see when I am in town next.

Oh also I keep forgetting.

The guy you want to e-mail is [email protected] for the vfiz.

[kloeb2]

Ahh man thats aawesome. I sometimes wish I would have gone with a 63. I forgot I sold you the PPD, someone told me that Sean@ PPD went out of business or stopped selling them and I was trying to remember I sold mine too. How's she been? My finances finally picked back up, and I was able to buy another one, Got a vfiz this time, its pretty neat, but I do miss the boost recall feature from the ppd.

The ppds been great. Haven't has a chance to use the 0-60 feature yet. Boost recall is great. Using it's built in map sensor :)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[seal66]

Well I don't have vagcom right now and I'm too lazy to take out the ppd, so if you want I can meet you on a weekend or something to do some logs.


For sure. I'll see when I am in town next.

Oh also I keep forgetting.

The guy you want to e-mail is [email protected] for the vfiz.


And this guy Ultra keeps forgetting that I live less than 5 mins from him ha ha.

[ultraleggera a4]

And this guy Ultra keeps forgetting that I live less than 5 mins from him ha ha.

Oh yeah I forgot, how busy are you this week, I just moved again I live in the ghettos of Montbello now. I want to go for a ride in beast of a car!

[mec]

Oh yeah I forgot, how busy are you this week, I just moved again I live in the gettos of Montbello now. I want to go for a ride in beast of a car!

What you should do is race him. The car is way more insane on the outside. Fireballs, gnarly exhaust, spoolin sounds...its pretty rad.

[seal66]

Oh yeah I forgot, how busy are you this week, I just moved again I live in the gettos of Montbello now. I want to go for a ride in beast of a car!
Where the heck is that. My only free day is today and maybe Friday. Other than that I am working a lot

[seal66]

What you should do is race him. The car is way more insane on the outside. Fireballs, gnarly exhaust, spoolin sounds...its pretty rad.
You sure we are talking about the same car? You might be going crazy finally. I haven't seen fireballs yet. Of course hard to see driving ha ha

[mec]

You sure we are talking about the same car? You might be going crazy finally. I haven't seen fireballs yet. Of course hard to see driving ha ha

I thought there were fireballs in that video I took of your car? I'll have to look at it again. Oh man, B showed me the antilag on his allroad, loudest thing i've ever heard, its louder than gunshots, it sounds like a huge firecracker, blowing up, repeatedly.

[ultraleggera a4]

Where the heck is that. My only free day is today and maybe Friday. Other than that I am working a lot

The end of Chambers rd, Past colfax. We should get some night pulls so we can shoot some fireballs. On like parker rd or something

[Jake@JHM]

Thanks for the order [up]

Sorry I couldn't get back to your voice mail, I was still at SEMA.

Jake

[mec]

Thanks for the order [up]

Sorry I couldn't get back to your voice mail, I was still at SEMA.

Jake


oooooooh what did he order? was it the JHM manthong?

[Jake@JHM]

Some JHM goodness

[drumnjuny]

so it was the jhm full body bondage suit... hmmmm i've been looking at that piece. +5hp in bed i heard

[Jake@JHM]

so it was the jhm full body bondage suit... hmmmm i've been looking at that piece. +5hp in bed i heard

Oh, more than that!

[mec]

so it was the jhm full body bondage suit... hmmmm i've been looking at that piece. +5hp in bed i heard

Add the jhm cockring for extra pleasure and sensation, doesn't boost hp in bed but it does tickle your balls!

[drumnjuny]

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Tickle_23ee28_1633601.jpg

[mec]

Lololol poor kloeb

[kloeb2]

Mmmm in addition the the full bondage suit, cock ring, anal beads and clit tickler, I got dis
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/a53df47902942de31617f3669be1433c.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/a0126265f6e0976229915c3ecd592e57.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/ddc3121368cc57f02354f4a69ad07feb.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/07bc357586204c29905929d73220c144.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/23/420b148f2f5b7f9eca803fb39a489143.jpg

And fuck it feels awesome. Not as awesome as the cock ring, but still pretty good.

My drakes stg 4 never once worked right and I ditched it after 2000 miles for this. Already have 600 miles on it. First successful launch on this bad boy last night [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jake@JHM]

Boom!! How was it? 600 city miles?

[kloeb2]

Yeah mostly city. I only brought it up around 3500 rpm. Then let out pretty fast. It grabbed real well but had a slight hesitation after engaging. Pretty sure I need to rev a little higher next time.

What's the ideal rpm to launch at jake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ericpaulyoung]

Dude, if one side is Kevlar, you better break it in or it will glaze bro :)