Timing Belt Replacement / Front Removal Help

[parki3n]

I bought the Europaparts timing belt kit and I'm trying to follow Phil's DIY (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/522004-EuropaParts-com-B7-A4-Timing-Belt-Kit-with-DIY?highlight=timing+belt) and also referencing this method from gtiedwards (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/313533-Timing-Belt-DIY-for-a-B7), but I'm running into an issue. I stripped one of the allen bolts on the crankshaft pulley and I need to be able to get right in front of it so I can drill it out. I can't do that right now because the front only comes off this far:

http://s21.postimg.org/4vid2eeef/Front_Removal_small.jpg

These two hoses are what's keeping me from swinging the whole front end to the right like Phil's and gtiedwards's pictures. I seem to need to disconnect them, but when I disconnected one of them oil (I think) started streaming out. So I put it right back. What have other people done with these hoses? Do you know if the lines are oil or coolant?

My car is a 2006 B7 A4 2.0T automatic, bone-stock except for the AudiUp snub mount you can see in the picture. 110,000 miles. Changed the oil about 1,000 miles ago, so I'd rather not have to drain it all again if I don't have to.

P.S. I don't have access to a freon bench, so I'm trying not to disconnect the AC, which is why it's rotated down on the ground under the car.

View from above:
http://s10.postimg.org/t9feyctux/Last_two_hoses_small.jpg



Close-up on hoses from above:
http://s17.postimg.org/lhbht1lf3/Hoses_close_up_small.jpg

I removed the left of these two hoses briefly. Close up from below:

http://s23.postimg.org/iwg5mw9dn/Hoses_from_below_small.jpg

Bird's-eye view of the engine compartment:

http://s14.postimg.org/7hxvuq6cx/Birds_eye_view_small.jpg

[fly300kts]

These are the oil line for your tranny. Do not disconnect them andi hope you did not loose much oil
I disconnected my ac lines to get more room

Phil

[B6cool]

Yep ^^^^
Does lines are for transmission oil. They go to the cooler wchich is integrated with radiator just take them off some oil will be lost but not much just keep them high and cap them right away so no more oil is lost also keep even the radiator so you got no mess. I did my timing on 3.0 and took off the radiator some oil was lost so I went to the shop just to make sure the oil level in tranny is correct and after they checked it was fine so any small spill of tranny fluid it should be ok. By the way you could totally do the trimming with out pulling the radiator. Service position should gave you just enought space to work around

[fly300kts]

Yep ^^^^
Does lines are for transmission oil. They go to the cooler wchich is integrated with radiator just take them off some oil will be lost but not much just keep them high and cap them right away so no more oil is lost also keep even the radiator so you got no mess. I did my timing on 3.0 and took off the radiator some oil was lost so I went to the shop just to make sure the oil level in tranny is correct and after they checked it was fine so any small spill of tranny fluid it should be ok. By the way you could totally do the trimming with out pulling the radiator. Service position should gave you just enought space to work around


Room to do the belt yes, enough room to drill, no

Phil

[hanzy]

Why do you need to drill it out?

Is just the head stripped or did you break it off?

If it is not broken just hammer a "turbo socket" on there and use a socket.

[parki3n]

Room to do the belt yes, enough room to drill, no

Phil

Yeah, Phil, that's exactly my issue. I have the front off (in what I think is the lowered service position) and I can get just enough room to get to the bolts. Now that I broke one I have to drill and there's not enough room. And to answer your question I probably only lost a tablespoon of oil from the hose. Since I didn't know what it was used for I was prepared to put it back quickly if anything came out.

B6cool, thanks for the feedback. I think I'll try what you suggest by disconnecting the lines and plugging them quickly. Otherwise I'm stuck and I really don't want to bundle this whole thing back up and then have to go to a shop in the end. What did you use to cap them?

[parki3n]

Why do you need to drill it out?

Is just the head stripped or did you break it off?

If it is not broken just hammer a "turbo socket" on there and use a socket.

Actually I re-read my post and I'm not being clear. I broke the socket bit I was using in one of the screw heads. I went and bought a new one that should be better suited (I was using a torx head instead of an allen head) and now I can't get it into the hole enough to get the force I need.

[kloeb2]

can you take off the snub mount bracket to give you room to swing the front clip down? It looks like the front is resting on it..

When I did mine, I removed the ac line going into the reciever drier. But I also have a 6mt so i'm not sure if this would work for you...

Broken/stripped bolts suck [down]

edit: don't remove the ac line unless you're in a well ventilated area. Also put a rag over the connection to "catch" the vapors.

[parki3n]

I could take of the snub mount bracket, but it won't help. I have the front resting on that in the picture because I wanted to move the big piece of wood I was propping it with out of the way for the picture. I have a few more inches of play than the picture shows, but it's not enough for a drill. Thanks for the idea, though.

I'm planning to get some rubber stoppers tomorrow and use them to plug up those lines and hope not to lose too much transmission fluid.

[IKE20VA4]

I unscrewed the tranny oil cooler from the radiator so that they weren't connected. Then swung that to the driver side and the radiator and a/c lines down to the floor but rested it about 18" off the floor. I had seized allen bolts there too. Ended up using Irwin bolt out remover. Spendy tool but it worked as advertised! Mine was a 6MT so I'm not sure the AT would be the same..

[shiro1745]

Looking at the second picture I see this: a rubber hose conected to a hard line which goes into the front. I cannot see how the second line behind is cause of the angle you took the picture and I don't have those in my car so I can take a look. But my thinking is this, isn't it possible to disconnect the rubber off the hard lines at the top(looks like rubber goes pretty high)? this way gravity will keep all the fluid in, I would think because that hard line is much higher than the tranny there would be no fluid in there but only air. Once those rubber hoses are disconnected you can tight them to the engine block so they stay vertical and keep the fluid from spilling.
If my theory works then you could just swing the whole front end like I did, I had to drill into the crankshaft seal and this gave me plenty of room.

EDIT: here's the picture from when I did the timing belt, but again I have the FWD MT.
I had the whole nose resting on the two ramps I have, it was the perfect height not to put any tension on the coolant hoses and I could move it around easy enough by myself, I had no help.
You can see the AC condenser on the ground under the car, I see you did the same.

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae31/ciprianpatulea/9f6bcfc1.jpg (http://s955.photobucket.com/user/ciprianpatulea/media/9f6bcfc1.jpg.html)

[fly300kts]

Something just caught my eye:
You left your hood latch cable connected, he is the culprit. Look at the tension on the last picture

Phil

[shiro1745]

Nice catch Phil [up]
That wouldn't give him enough room to drill though right?

[shiro1745]

I unscrewed the tranny oil cooler from the radiator so that they weren't connected. Then swung that to the driver side and the radiator and a/c lines down to the floor but rested it about 18" off the floor. I had seized allen bolts there too. Ended up using Irwin bolt out remover. Spendy tool but it worked as advertised! Mine was a 6MT so I'm not sure the AT would be the same..

There you go, even better. I didn't know how that tranny oil cooler is connected and if that was possible with the nose on.

[fly300kts]

Nice catch Phil [up]
That wouldn't give him enough room to drill though right?

I think yes

Phil

[parki3n]

You guys are awesome. Phil, you nailed it. Once I removed the hood latch cable I was able to rotate the front straight forward and get enough room to work.

Now to finish this project up and do some celebratory grilling.

http://s24.postimg.org/oodu6kcr9/Front_end_rotated_forward_small.jpg

[fly300kts]

Audizine Power !!!
Have a great day

Phil

PS: Before you close the hood, remember to reconnect the cable otherwise......oh boy

[CorneliusRox]

Something just caught my eye:
You left your hood latch cable connected, he is the culprit. Look at the tension on the last picture

Phil

What a good eye! I took mine off completely when I did it.


You guys are awesome. Phil, you nailed it. Once I removed the hood latch cable I was able to rotate the front straight forward and get enough room to work.

Now to finish this project up and do some celebratory grilling.

http://s24.postimg.org/oodu6kcr9/Front_end_rotated_forward_small.jpg

That's what I did, then I slid it all under the engine a bit, did the timing belt, water pump, etc... and then just slid it back up.


Audizine Power !!!
Before you close the hood, remember to reconnect the cable otherwise......oh boy

x2, and it can be a little bit tricky. I got a little frustrated with it

[parki3n]

I have the timing belt and water pump and idlers replaced, but I'm not positive that the belt is lined up correctly. The marks look exactly like the old belt when I put them next to each other, but when I rotate the crankshaft around enough that the marks on belt come back around they don't match up with the gears. None of them do. I should have turned the engine over a few times with the old belt on first to better understand how it's supposed to look, but it's too late for that now. Any tips to know if it's right or wrong?

[CorneliusRox]

I have the timing belt and water pump and idlers replaced, but I'm not positive that the belt is lined up correctly. The marks look exactly like the old belt when I put them next to each other, but when I rotate the crankshaft around enough that the marks on belt come back around they don't match up with the gears. None of them do. I should have turned the engine over a few times with the old belt on first to better understand how it's supposed to look, but it's too late for that now. Any tips to know if it's right or wrong?

There should be marks, but if not I am sure you could pull a plug, find TDC, and then find where the cam is supposed to be at that point. Look up Phil's DIY, I swear there are marks, I just cant remember.

[parki3n]

Ok, I think I was completely confused last night when I posted. What I was seeing is that the marks on the belt didn't line up when the belt went a full rotation, but now that I think about it that's expected. As long as the gear marks line up with the ones on the stationary metal they're mounted to then I think everything is OK.

But I'm sort of concerned that in trying to get my stripped allen heads out I may have messed up my marks. Just how bad would it be if I'm wrong?

[Charles.waite]

Ok, I think I was completely confused last night when I posted. What I was seeing is that the marks on the belt didn't line up when the belt went a full rotation, but now that I think about it that's expected. As long as the gear marks line up with the ones on the stationary metal they're mounted to then I think everything is OK.

But I'm sort of concerned that in trying to get my stripped allen heads out I may have messed up my marks. Just how bad would it be if I'm wrong?

The Crank pulley only goes on one way. you can't put it on incorrectly.

If you're a tooth or so off, redo it. You want it to be dead on. make sure the TDC marks are lined up, if they aren't take the belt off, move them to TDC, put belt back on, rotate 5-6 times to ensure tension is spread evenly and the the marks still line up.

[parki3n]

Thanks, Charles. I spent some time today making sure things are lined up properly and turning it over repeatedly and I'm convinced it's right.

But now that I'm putting the car back together I'd appreciate it if someone could check what the screw looks like that holds the headlights in place directly on top. I thought I took good shots of everything, but I can't tell if the two little rusted screws I have left are right or not. The heads look too small, but the tread is right.

http://s2.postimg.org/9vr0zckeh/Headlight_Screw_small.jpg

http://s9.postimg.org/okpejtedr/Headlight_Screw_Close_Up_small.jpg

[fly300kts]

Definitively not the right one. Threads are the same but head should look like this. Bonus: The part Number is N91118201

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/fly300kts/Bumper%20DIY/P9.jpg

Phil

[parki3n]

I found those screws. Not sure what the little rusted ones were for. Thanks, Phil.

[parki3n]

Just wanted to close out this thread and thank everyone for your help. This is the biggest project I've ever done on a car, and I only attempted it because I knew there were great resources here to help if I got stuck.

I finally got the car put back together and it's running great. No problems as far as I can tell. I even found out that the bolts on my right headlight was loose that that's why it's been flickering for months. It wasn't the ballast problem that I'd dreaded it would be. What a happy surprise.

[pat_do]

Very informative thread!!!! I'm loving this

[IKE20VA4]

Ok, I think I was completely confused last night when I posted. What I was seeing is that the marks on the belt didn't line up when the belt went a full rotation, but now that I think about it that's expected. As long as the gear marks line up with the ones on the stationary metal they're mounted to then I think everything is OK.

But I'm sort of concerned that in trying to get my stripped allen heads out I may have messed up my marks. Just how bad would it be if I'm wrong?

I confused myself by marking 2 places on the belt so when I turned the crank it looked all jacked up but the TDC marks on the engine kept lining up, so I buttoned it up and prayed when I turned the key it wouldn't blow up. All was good.

Glad to hear you made it through! Mine took me 3 days. Couldn't have done it without the AZ either!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[parki3n]

Mine also took three days, but I'm pretty new to working on cars so I went slow. I also had to spend hours of time dealing with a sheared off torx bit in one of the aluminum screw heads, so it really shouldn't have been as hard as it was for me.

After two short trips I got a P0340 code and a CEL recently (cam positioning sensor). The car has been driving fine and I'm still not sure what I'm going to do about it. I think I'll start by clearing the codes and seeing if it comes back. Then I'll replace the cam positioning sensor and see if it keeps the code from coming back.

[B72011]

Same here on the two marks....it really threw me for a loop...then after consulting here with the boys...all was found to be bueno. Good work...congrats.

[papadelogan]

Phil -

In your DIY, the 7th picture:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/fly300kts/Timing%20Belt/P7.jpg


Do you (or anyone else for that matter) know the outside diameter & threading of those bolts that support the front end? I'm planning to do this in the next week or so and if I can fabricate something on my own for the one time that I'll (likely) need them.

[parki3n]

I'm no expert, but having just done this I'm not sure you really need to put a bolt in there to rest the front on. I just rested the weight of mine on the snub mount for the time it took me to get the rest of the piece off and get it to the ground. Or else prop it up from below with a block of wood. But maybe I'm just misunderstanding why people are interested in having a long bolt there.

[papadelogan]

I'm no expert, but having just done this I'm not sure you really need to put a bolt in there to rest the front on. I just rested the weight of mine on the snub mount for the time it took me to get the rest of the piece off and get it to the ground. Or else prop it up from below with a block of wood. But maybe I'm just misunderstanding why people are interested in having a long bolt there.

I think it's just to keep it up off the ground. I'm always curious about the tools available and if I can fab/create something at home to do the same job and save $$$$. But then, I can save even more $ by not even putting the few dollars in to even a knock-off tool! I have to look at my work schedule for this weekend, but I think blauparts is going to be getting some $$ from me soon.

[fly300kts]

I think it's just to keep it up off the ground. I'm always curious about the tools available and if I can fab/create something at home to do the same job and save $$$$. But then, I can save even more $ by not even putting the few dollars in to even a knock-off tool! I have to look at my work schedule for this weekend, but I think blauparts is going to be getting some $$ from me soon.
Get the kit from Europaparts, better quality and water pump has a metallic impeller, not plastic

Phil

[fly300kts]

Phil -

In your DIY, the 7th picture:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c395/fly300kts/Timing%20Belt/P7.jpg


Do you (or anyone else for that matter) know the outside diameter & threading of those bolts that support the front end? I'm planning to do this in the next week or so and if I can fabricate something on my own for the one time that I'll (likely) need them.

M8

Phil

[mcpcartier]

M8

Phil

I bought 2 of these...think I offered $10 with shipping and they accepted. Did the job nicely.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kronos-Aluminum-Extralite-Quill-Stem-Bolt-M8X1-25-127mm-/330686079673?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cfe6d22b9

[B72011]

Just use the long bolts that you'll end up removing while doing the job. I can't remember exactly which ones they were but they were plenty long enough for me to pull the front out about a foot and a half. Plenty of room to do the job...unless you strip or break a bolt on the pulley...otherwise you're fine. I believe the manual has you just use these bolts?

[shiro1745]

You can rest the whole front on two ramps. My car was lowered on H&R springs back when I did it and the ramps fit perfect under the bumper. If you're not lowered just put some 2x4 under the ramps.