C5 A6 4.2 6 speed swap begins!

[nativefx]

Well we're finally getting ready to begin having the 6 speed swap on our 2000 A6 4.2! Everyone's input on here made the decision to get the 6MT swap done rather than rebuilding the TIP pretty easy. Although this wasn't very difficult to persuade me, but I wasn't so sure about my GF. In fact she was just as excited about going with the 6MT!

Doing some research on this forum and all the help from the members and forum sponsors on here, we decided we wanted to hopefully alleviate any future problems with the trans on this car. So we decided to source a rebuilt trans and kit from Scott @ Advanced Automotion who has been great to work with and answered A LOT of questions regarding this decision. I really appreciate all his help and other members on here who offered assistance as well.

Scott said the kit should be ready to ship soon, so I'll have to see about getting pictures and such of the swap as it goes along. I'm having a local VW/Audi Indy shop do the conversion and they're a great group of guys that are just as excited about this as we are![:D]

[v8a6]

Well we're finally getting ready to begin having the 6 speed swap on our 2000 A6 4.2! Everyone's input on here made the decision to get the 6MT swap done rather than rebuilding the TIP pretty easy. Although this wasn't very difficult to persuade me, but I wasn't so sure about my GF. In fact she was just as excited about going with the 6MT!

Doing some research on this forum and all the help from the members and forum sponsors on here, we decided we wanted to hopefully alleviate any future problems with the trans on this car. So we decided to source a rebuilt trans and kit from Scott @ Advanced Automotion who has been great to work with and answered A LOT of questions regarding this decision. I really appreciate all his help and other members on here who offered assistance as well.

Scott said the kit should be ready to ship soon, so I'll have to see about getting pictures and such of the swap as it goes along. I'm having a local VW/Audi Indy shop do the conversion and they're a great group of guys that are just as excited about this as we are![:D]

Nice! I predict by the year 2022 that all surviving C5 4.2 based cars will have been swapped to 6 speeds and the tip transmissions will officially become extinct!

[Vinchenzo51]

Congrats! Can't wait to see how you like it once its all done.

A lot of us have made the swap ourselves, so any questions you or your shop have, one of us can definitely help you out.


Nice! I predict by the year 2022 that all surviving C5 4.2 based cars will have been swapped to 6 speeds and the tip transmissions will officially become extinct!

This would be a great thing indeed.

[nativefx]

Thanks vinchenzo. I'm sure there will be a few questions here and there as we go along and most people have been pretty helpful which makes this forum such a great place!

I agree that if the TIP's go extinct, they won't actually be missed!

Once we get this taken care of, I can re-visit some mods I've been wanting to continue on my other rides! [:D]

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/All%20FX/photo-7.jpg

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/photo-6.jpg


Congrats! Can't wait to see how you like it once its all done.

A lot of us have made the swap ourselves, so any questions you or your shop have, one of us can definitely help you out.



This would be a great thing indeed.

[jamestpc]

wtf???

fx and a tdi?


I dislike you now.

[napolean]

Hey,

If you need help reprogramming your ecu for the manual swap i can help out !

[v8a6]

Hey,

If you need help reprogramming your ecu for the manual swap i can help out !

Have you done a 2000 A6 4.2 6speed swap car before? Just asking because it is a me7.1 ECU, and different from all the later models which can more easily port the Euro S6 tune. The only people I know of who have worked out all the bugs with the 2000 ECU cars are JHM.

[xdewaynex]

Id love to get a 6spd for my 3.slow, but funds are low at the moment.

[nativefx]

I'd be interested if there is another option than JHM as well, as I wasn't aware someone else was able to reprogram for the 2000 4.2. Thanks!



Hey,

If you need help reprogramming your ecu for the manual swap i can help out !


Have you done a 2000 A6 4.2 6speed swap car before? Just asking because it is a me7.1 ECU, and different from all the later models which can more easily port the Euro S6 tune. The only people I know of who have worked out all the bugs with the 2000 ECU cars are JHM.

[nativefx]

Awwe come on..............can't we still be friends???? LOL


wtf???

fx and a tdi?


I dislike you now.

[NuGGet_PuFFer]

Congrats. I'm currently in the process of swapping a 2.7 w/ 6spd into a 4.2 for the widebody and rs6 goodness.

More pics of the tdi!!!

[nativefx]

Little delay in the shipping of the rebuilt tranny kit. In the meantime..............[:p]


Congrats. I'm currently in the process of swapping a 2.7 w/ 6spd into a 4.2 for the widebody and rs6 goodness.

More pics of the tdi!!!

Here's a side shot of the TDI and the silver wheels. i also added a photoshop'd version with the centers changed to "sun gold" as I'm debating on powdercoating the centers. What do you guys think???

Silver
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/9b53f325-aac2-4fab-92a2-34a5f75165fb_zps610fe962.jpg

Sun Gold centers
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Sun%20Gold%20Powdercoat%20Wheel%20Pics/ModifiedRightsideview_zps482103a3.jpg


Oh, and I was smart enough to order the TDI already equipped properly! [:D]
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Passat%20delivery%20photos/yournewbaby138.jpg

[NuGGet_PuFFer]

Little delay in the shipping of the rebuilt tranny kit. In the meantime..............[:p]



Here's a side shot of the TDI and the silver wheels. i also added a photoshop'd version with the centers changed to "sun gold" as I'm debating on powdercoating the centers. What do you guys think???

Silver
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/9b53f325-aac2-4fab-92a2-34a5f75165fb_zps610fe962.jpg

Sun Gold centers
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Sun%20Gold%20Powdercoat%20Wheel%20Pics/ModifiedRightsideview_zps482103a3.jpg

Gold. They both look great though. Nice car.

[stef2.7t]

Nice! I predict by the year 2022 that all surviving C5 4.2 based cars will have been swapped to 6 speeds and the tip transmissions will officially become extinct!

I think by the time my slushbox conks out, all the O1E's will be spoken for and I'll be SOL.

[GTA_S6]

I think by the time my slushbox conks out, all the O1E's will be spoken for and I'll be SOL.

Then don't wait. I had the opportunity to drive a6v8's car with the swap and I immediately started calling around for parts even though my TIP was perfectly fine. I had my S6 for just under 2 years and was so sick of the auto that I was going to sell it. The swap simply transforms the car and brings a smile to my face everytime. If you're ever in Toronto look me up and we'll go for a spin.

[stef2.7t]

Then don't wait. I had the opportunity to drive a6v8's car with the swap and I immediately started calling around for parts even though my TIP was perfectly fine. I had my S6 for just under 2 years and was so sick of the auto that I was going to sell it. The swap simply transforms the car and brings a smile to my face everytime. If you're ever in Toronto look me up and we'll go for a spin.

I visit the family every now and then...I just may take you up on that offer. Thank you good Sir!

[cbock]

Congrats on getting the swap ball rolling.

And, +1 on the Passat with either wheels. Looks great!

[nativefx]

Okay it looks like I should be getting the swap kit pretty soon from Scott @ Advanced Automotion! Hopefully once the shop receives everything we can start going through the parts and maybe get some pictures.

In the meantime, here's a pic Scott sent me of the rebuilt tranny on the test bench!
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/Audi6spdtranny_zps5f199fab.jpg

Can't wait to finally get started on this project and see the difference in the car once the 6 speed is in. I'll be MORE than happy to finally be rid of the TIP!!!

[v8a6]

I have never seen such a clean 01e :)

Now hurry up and get it in your car so you can launch the hell out of it!

[canadianA4B7]

Then don't wait. I had the opportunity to drive a6v8's car with the swap and I immediately started calling around for parts even though my TIP was perfectly fine. I had my S6 for just under 2 years and was so sick of the auto that I was going to sell it. The swap simply transforms the car and brings a smile to my face everytime. If you're ever in Toronto look me up and we'll go for a spin.

This x2 had the chance to take his for a cruise, and i dont think if a v8 a6 was available for FREE with an auto trans offered to me. i wud decline the offer. The torque of the hefty v8 through all gears and just the raw performance of a v8 just shud not be geared through a auto trans.

You will enjoy im sure. And i myself wud love to one day swap out my 2.7t for a 4.2 in my ar. One day

[Vinchenzo51]

I have never seen such a clean 01e :)

Now hurry up and get it in your car so you can launch the hell out of it!

Agree with everything in this statement.

[nativefx]

Okay so after a longer delay than I anticipated, the swap kit is in route! It was picked up last Friday and I'm hoping it will arrive at the shop tomorrow. Of course with the Memorial Day weekend they won't start going through everything until later next week. Hopefully I can get some pictures once it arrives and then we can work out a plan for beginning this swap!!!

[DJPardy]

I think by the time my slushbox conks out, all the O1E's will be spoken for and I'll be SOL.

SAME... :(

[julex]

SAME... :(

Eventually all the surviving c5/b5s will be 6 speed and the rest, due to unavailability of trannies, just junked.

[nativefx]

Okay the day to begin this swap is FINALLY HERE!!!


Dropped it off at the shop this morning.
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/A6infrontofshop_zps9af44b87.jpg


We had received the kit, but where waiting on a few smaller parts to arrive before pulling the TIP.
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/conversionkit_zpse19cf213.jpg
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/clutchampflywheel_zps28f2a82f.jpg


I'm hoping I can get out of work early enough to get down to the shop later today and take some more pictures in the different stages. Hopefully once I get this damn TIP out and replaced with the 6 speed, we won't have any more issues with the f*%#@!*& transmission that has been a nightmare with this car! As it's a 2000 4.2, I need to have them pull the ECU out and send to JHM to get the proper flash done and from what I hear will also make a decent increase on the performance side as well.

[dcgh]

Eventually all the surviving c5/b5s will be 6 speed and the rest, due to unavailability of trannies, just junked.

Loads of Trannies in Europe that could be shipped...no need to panic yet...at least that's what I'm telling myself [:D]

[nativefx]

By the way, can anyone tell me the manual tranny fluid type that should be used and what is everyone who has done this swap on an A6 using as their service interval on the tranny fluid? Or can tell me the tranny ID number so I can look it up?

thanks

[Yar_1]

How much will this cost? If you don't mind me asking...

[Scotty@Advanced]

By the way, can anyone tell me the manual tranny fluid type that should be used and what is everyone who has done this swap on an A6 using as their service interval on the tranny fluid? Or can tell me the tranny ID number so I can look it up?

thanks

3 liters. Titan fuchs sinto fluid, factory fill or motul gear 300

[nativefx]

3 liters. Titan fuchs sinto fluid, factory fill or motul gear 300

Thanks Scott! What do you recommend for the fluid change intervals and should it be just a drain and fill or complete flush?

[audi5inline]

Are you using a double mass flywheel ?

[nativefx]

How much will this cost? If you don't mind me asking...

It kind of depends on the route you take - rebuilt or used. The information i got when i started looking into this was to contact either of these two guys, who are also on the board.

Scotty at www.Advancedautomotion.com & Bryan at www.audis4parts.com

Spoke to both of them and they were both very helpful. Due to the issues I've had with this car and the previous owner having the TIP "rebuilt" by a company that probably had no business working on it, I didn't want to take any more chances than needed so I chose to go with a rebuilt tranny from Advanced Automotion. Nothing against Bryan @ Audis4parts as he was also very helpful, just a personal choice. He has a lot of options about what he can supply, so I'd send him a PM to get a better idea, but the rebuilts start at about $2,900. If you want a used one, Audis4parts has the swap kit listed on their website (I don't remember). If you live close to either of these places you can also get a pretty good deal on the install. Since I live in Oregon, I considered shipping down to Scott but overall cost was going to be higher and I'm pretty confident in the shop here that only works on VW/Audi's.

Because mine is a 2000 A6, getting the right flash for the ECU isn't as easy as the 2001+ (which can use the Euro flash) and so I have only been able to determine that a flash from JHM is my only option, but of course comes with a price.

[Scotty@Advanced]

Thanks Scott! What do you recommend for the fluid change intervals and should it be just a drain and fill or complete flush?

Change at 1500 miles then every 25K for racing use or 50K for street use

[nativefx]

Are you using a double mass flywheel ?

I'm using a B5 RS4 clutch and flywheel, which I believe is the dual mass flywheel.

[redneck truck]

Yikes, I'm about due for a fluid change. I can qualify all the miles I've put on my car as racing use, can't I?

How's the rest of the swap coming? I'm excited to see the finished product.

As for the ECU flash, why on earth aren't you just swapping to an ME7.1.1 ECU and harness? Methinks the headaches you'll encounter with tuning (contrary to what ANY vendor or tuner will tell you) will far outweigh the slight inconvenience and cost of swapping to the new version. Then, the coding is essentially free, and you get a free tune and more horsepower when you swap top end parts.

[nativefx]

Yikes, I'm about due for a fluid change. I can qualify all the miles I've put on my car as racing use, can't I?

How's the rest of the swap coming? I'm excited to see the finished product.

As for the ECU flash, why on earth aren't you just swapping to an ME7.1.1 ECU and harness? Methinks the headaches you'll encounter with tuning (contrary to what ANY vendor or tuner will tell you) will far outweigh the slight inconvenience and cost of swapping to the new version. Then, the coding is essentially free, and you get a free tune and more horsepower when you swap top end parts.

hi redneck truck, to be honest i wasnt aware that swapping to the ME7.1.1 ECU was an option?!?! I'd agree that may make more sense in the long run as the only one im aware that can tune the ME7.1 ECU is JHMotorsports, and even talking with them they say they can't guarantee everything will work properly.

How difficult would it be to swap to the ME7.1.1 ECU amd harness? My shop was pulling the TIP out yesterdayand replacing with the 6MT. he was planning on being done by middle of next week, as long as we didnt run into any issues. If its something they could handleto convert, I'd definately be interested! If you have any info i could share with them to consider that would be great.

[redneck truck]

Talk to scotty@advanced. I won't speak for him but id be surprised if he didn't have a harness and ECU sitting. You'll need to make sure the wiring at the pass through is the same. It's worth it.

[ddillenger]

Keep in mind the 01 ECU (ME7.1.1) although better, relies heavily on can-bus communication. So some recoding may be necessary in associated modules.

I've done a few 6 speed a6 conversion files, LMK if you have any questions [:)]

[JA6X]

hi redneck truck, to be honest i wasnt aware that swapping to the ME7.1.1 ECU was an option?!?! I'd agree that may make more sense in the long run as the only one im aware that can tune the ME7.1 ECU is JHMotorsports, and even talking with them they say they can't guarantee everything will work properly.

What are you concerned with won't work with the JHM flash? I'm currently running their flash for a 2000 4.2, same color as yours, and would be glad to let you know if what you're looking for works, should you not update the ECU. They'll probably use the same flash, as mine was the first one developed for the 2000. You're gonna love the car once it's done.

One caveat, I'm not sure how the smog check is in Oregon, is it as bad as California? But make sure you also get the "smog" flash (daughter board) that you can replace in the ECU when it's smog time. I've got Keaton working on mine right now as I have to smog in 2 months.

Joe

[redneck truck]

Yikes! That sounds complicated. Emissions legal here in spite of cats and SAI. Talk to Ddillenger - pretty sure it's a modified version of the OEM (read: better) file I got for free. And the best part is, I flashed it myself without even popping the hood.

Now, I'm not modified - I'm stuck at 275WHP while JHM makes like 800WHP out of their v8s. A factory tune may not be for you, but for me, given the option of spending $400 on ECU and harness or spending 400 on a JHM tune that's in the works, I think the choice is clear.

Plus, you get to sell your stock ECU and harness or keep them as spares!

[v8a6]

No problems with the JHM tune here, and it passed emissions in Toronto Canada last December with high flow cats and a 2.5 full exhaust. My opinion is that the JHM ECU update is a lot easier than the whole harness/ECU swap. But it is up to you. The spare harness and ECU from a 2000 is essentially worth nothing. You can pickup a 2000 ECU for $50, and save that as a backup in your current setup. For emissions, you can always swap the stock one back. With the 01 and up, it is not quite as easy, as the immobilizer locks you out. You would have to get the ECU modified to bypass this issue if you are not using the stock ECU. As far as I know, this can't be done by flash alone. It takes some soldering.

Interested to see how this works out for you.

[02 A6 2.7T]

With the 01 and up, it is not quite as easy, as the immobilizer locks you out. You would have to get the ECU modified to bypass this issue if you are not using the stock ECU. As far as I know, this can't be done by flash alone. It takes some soldering.

This can be done without soldering ... PM me

[v8a6]

This can be done without soldering ... PM me

Thanks for the info. I don't need it done, personally. I run the JHM tune.

[redneck truck]

I've had Immobilizer deleted by flash as well. It's not that big a deal. And the harness swap probably takes just a couple of hours. What's the price on the JHM tune?

[ddillenger]

I've had Immobilizer deleted by flash as well. It's not that big a deal. And the harness swap probably takes just a couple of hours. What's the price on the JHM tune?

Honesty time.

Who with the JHM tune has working ESP? From what I saw, they use the auto tune but alter the limp mode maps and delete the error codes so the car RUNS fine, but is still in limp mode, thus no ESP.

I could be wrong, but that's what I've observed.

[NuGGet_PuFFer]

Honesty time.

Who with the JHM tune has working ESP? From what I saw, they use the auto tune but alter the limp mode maps and delete the error codes so the car RUNS fine, but is still in limp mode, thus no ESP.

I could be wrong, but that's what I've observed.

Did 2000 A6's come with ESP? I have a 2000 2.7 and a 2000 4.2 and neither of them have ESP...

[v8a6]

Did 2000 A6's come with ESP? I have a 2000 2.7 and a 2000 4.2 and neither of them have ESP...

2000 doesn't have ESP, you are correct

[ddillenger]

2000 doesn't have ESP, you are correct

I'm aware of that :)

But I know there are quite a few guys with 01-up cars that have done the swap.

[nativefx]

What are you concerned with won't work with the JHM flash? I'm currently running their flash for a 2000 4.2, same color as yours, and would be glad to let you know if what you're looking for works, should you not update the ECU. They'll probably use the same flash, as mine was the first one developed for the 2000. You're gonna love the car once it's done.

One caveat, I'm not sure how the smog check is in Oregon, is it as bad as California? But make sure you also get the "smog" flash (daughter board) that you can replace in the ECU when it's smog time. I've got Keaton working on mine right now as I have to smog in 2 months.

Joe

Well they told me the CEL most likely wont operate properly. They said it is possible there are issues which the tune will not correct, but i dont know exactly what other issues these might be which i why im concerned as i dont want to have to pay every time i need something in the tune adjusted in order to fix something. Maybe the JHM tune wont have any issues but thereare only a few who have this so its just something im concerned about . the 2001+ S6 tunes can be done prey easily from what i understand online.

As far as the smog check, im lucky cause i dont have to worry about it here i Bend so thats one good thing. I guess id just like to explore all my options and just determine what would be the best long term options, which are reasonable in cost to consider doing while i have the other things going such as the 6MT swap.

I am excited about how much different the car will be once the swap is completed!

[nativefx]

I've had Immobilizer deleted by flash as well. It's not that big a deal. And the harness swap probably takes just a couple of hours. What's the price on the JHM tune?

hey Redneck, i wasnt sure what all was involved with swapping the harness? Does the entire harness get replaced or are there sections where it can be disconnected and replaced with the necessary secton to work with the 2001+ ECU? If not, im assuming the harness needs to be cut and then soldered back together? Anyinfo you might be able to supply would be interesting to at least research as a possibility?

Thanks for all your input.

[nativefx]

Well were getting close to having the swap completed. Had a problem with the wrong slave cylinder, so hopefully that should get resolved tomorrow. In the meantime, here's a few pics from last week.

Old TIP tranny that was pulled out of the car
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/20130617_175147_zpsc1db8630.jpg


Exhaust, TIP, and rear diff removed
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/20130617_175127_zps08a74bb1.jpg
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/20130617_181903_zps18c3ce20.jpg


4.2 ready for the 6MT to be installed, has a few minor things to repair while doing swap
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/20130617_175314_zpsb4d660b0.jpg


Rear diff for the 6MT swap to be serviced before installation
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/20130617_181916_zps1ffff6cf.jpg


6MT kit which is being installed
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Nativefx/Audi%20file/conversionkit_zpse19cf213.jpg



Hopefully I'll be able to get back over to the shop when it's still up on the lift and get some pictures of the installed 6MT. They have a few more things to do and then we can hopefully start the car up and see if we can get on the road tomorrow! I'm sure it won't be running at it's best until after we get the JHM tune on the ECU, but JHM said we need to get it up and running first and pull all the VAG codes to send to them before sending in the ECU. I'll let everyone know how she drives before that, so we can see what kind of difference it will make and what issues are there initially that can be resolved.

[AudiA4_20T]

do you need different DPs for the manual swap? Or can you re-use the auto DPs?

[redneck truck]

Auto work fine

[ddillenger]

FYI, you can just switch a few pins around in the 00 harness to properly function using the 01 ecu. I can be more specific if you want, but a harness swap isn't needed.

[nativefx]

FYI, you can just switch a few pins around in the 00 harness to properly function using the 01 ecu. I can be more specific if you want, but a harness swap isn't needed.

Please be more specific! I'd be interested in taking a look at the option. Hopefully it will be up and ready to put on the road today, but I have to drive it for a bit to see what VAG codes get thrown and then send them down to JHM for the tune.

If you want to PM info that fine as well. Thanks for all your help.

[Korben007]

how is the swap going? any clearance issues with the flywheel onto the rear main seal? Also how do all the bolts work out for the engine to trans?

[nativefx]

how is the swap going? any clearance issues with the flywheel onto the rear main seal? Also how do all the bolts work out for the engine to trans?


The swap is complete, just working a few things out, and the clearance issue with the flywheel is handled with a small spacer, rather than a back cut that others have done in the past.

[redneck truck]

What have you removed to compensate for adding the spacer? Seems like you'd mess with clutch engagement doing that.

[nativefx]

Okay so we have the swap completed and he's made some adjustments to hopefully get the wiring correct with PIN 39. Everything seems to be okay except for some slight issues with the throttle response between shifts, which he thinks is due to the automatic ECU not being re-coded as of yet, so the car is just a little confused? When you are driving and then you go to shift gears, you take your foot off the gas while pushing in the clutch. The revs actually go up when you do this, and is more noticeable the faster you are accellerating. It also comes down very slowly once it does begin coming down. My mechanic thinks the ECU is just confused on what to do since it is still an auto ECU and normally with an automatic tranny there is more load being placed on the motor than with a manual, so its reacting the way it is.

Anyone that's done the swap on a 2000 know if this is "normal" and if it will be corrected once the ECU is recoded/flashed? He is not sure whether PIN 39 is even "active" at this point as it isnt utilized in the automatic, and that is probably one of the adjustments that will be made with the JHM tune, but I need to find out who did the actual tune at JHM and find out if this is correct?

As of right now the only VAG codes that came up after we went and test drove the car was:

P1626 - Missing Message from TCU

P0571 - Brake Switch Implausible signal - intermittent

P1602 - Voltage too low - intermittent


He thinks he just needs to clear the last two after the re-wiring he did to PIN 39 which also solved the cruise control problem he had originally as it didn't work. Although even now, when you press the clutch in, rather than the cruise control disengaging the throttle continues to rev up slowly.

Anyone have any ideas about the idling and throttle response? Thanks.

[nativefx]

What have you removed to compensate for adding the spacer? Seems like you'd mess with clutch engagement doing that.

Hi redneck truck, not sure anything was removed but this spacer option was what Scott of Advanced Automotion provided rather than having to back cut the flywheel. I'd have to ask him to clarify, but I know the spacer isn't very much as all.

[redneck truck]

Hey if it works and you have clutch engagement, it works.

As for your drivability issues, just read all my posts, as its been discussed ad nauseam :-)

[rollerton]

P0571 - Brake Switch Implausible signal - intermittent



THIS code is just a glitch many of the earlier C5 cars have- you shouldn't get this code if you simply press the brake once before scanning.

But otherwise, I'm super jealous...I may PM you to ask what the the labor cost you. I hate my trans these days. It's a fresh rebuild and there's still something stupid about the way it drives.

A million [up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up][up]

[v8a6]

Okay so we have the swap completed and he's made some adjustments to hopefully get the wiring correct with PIN 39. Everything seems to be okay except for some slight issues with the throttle response between shifts, which he thinks is due to the automatic ECU not being re-coded as of yet, so the car is just a little confused? When you are driving and then you go to shift gears, you take your foot off the gas while pushing in the clutch. The revs actually go up when you do this, and is more noticeable the faster you are accellerating. It also comes down very slowly once it does begin coming down. My mechanic thinks the ECU is just confused on what to do since it is still an auto ECU and normally with an automatic tranny there is more load being placed on the motor than with a manual, so its reacting the way it is.

Anyone that's done the swap on a 2000 know if this is "normal" and if it will be corrected once the ECU is recoded/flashed? He is not sure whether PIN 39 is even "active" at this point as it isnt utilized in the automatic, and that is probably one of the adjustments that will be made with the JHM tune, but I need to find out who did the actual tune at JHM and find out if this is correct?

As of right now the only VAG codes that came up after we went and test drove the car was:

P1626 - Missing Message from TCU

P0571 - Brake Switch Implausible signal - intermittent

P1602 - Voltage too low - intermittent


He thinks he just needs to clear the last two after the re-wiring he did to PIN 39 which also solved the cruise control problem he had originally as it didn't work. Although even now, when you press the clutch in, rather than the cruise control disengaging the throttle continues to rev up slowly.

Anyone have any ideas about the idling and throttle response? Thanks.

Yes, the problems you are having are the EXACT ones I had before the JHM tune (crazy hunting idle and rising revs between shifts). They are all sorted by the tune. GET IT NOW!

[Scotty@Advanced]

What have you removed to compensate for adding the spacer? Seems like you'd mess with clutch engagement doing that.

Absolutely Nothing there is no difference or clearance issues.

[redneck truck]

I want to make sure I understand. So a flywheel that normally runs without a spacer has a spacer between it and the crank, and nothing else has changed, and the starter and the clutch fork are happy?

[nativefx]

Yes, the problems you are having are the EXACT ones I had before the JHM tune (crazy hunting idle and rising revs between shifts). They are all sorted by the tune. GET IT NOW!

Thanks v8a6, I knew I had read somewhere that you had a very similar problem and I've been searching through your posts (and redneck trucks) trying to determine whether these were problems that would become sorted with the tune, or whether these problems were due to your ported S8 heads or other things which were the actual problems!

I'm also contemplating the advise from ddillenger about the rewiring which would allow the use of a 01+ ECU, as these could also utilize the euro tune. I'll have to discuss with my mechanic about the process for this and if there would be any question about being able to service/diagnose as he normally would.

[Scotty@Advanced]

I want to make sure I understand. So a flywheel that normally runs without a spacer has a spacer between it and the crank, and nothing else has changed, and the starter and the clutch fork are happy?

Yes thank you for understanding correctly.

[redneck truck]

That's good to know! Factory flywheel bolts used? How thick of a spacer is needed/acceptable? Is this the case with all clutches or just the self-adjusting ones?

[topball]

Anyone that is doing this swap and looking for a tune, dazq or ddillenger is the man. If you need help with any wiring I can help you swapping the 00 computer to 01, ive done it several times. Btw the 01 is far better and smoother than the 00. Just dont go jhm!! I did and now they have $1000 of my money and I have a computer that still has rev hang and has little power in the lower end compared to ddillenger's tune. As far as 1 tune fits all.... well thats stupid because every motor runs different and dazq tunes to your motor!

[nativefx]

Anyone that is doing this swap and looking for a tune, dazq or ddillenger is the man. If you need help with any wiring I can help you swapping the 00 computer to 01, ive done it several times. Btw the 01 is far better and smoother than the 00. Just dont go jhm!! I did and now they have $1000 of my money and I have a computer that still has rev hang and has little power in the lower end compared to ddillenger's tune. As far as 1 tune fits all.... well thats stupid because every motor runs different and dazq tunes to your motor!

Hey Topball, thanks for the input. I got some info from ddillenger about rewiring in order to utilize the 01 ECU. I haven't had a chance to talk with my mechanic about it and see whether he thought it would be difficult or something he was comfortable with. when you say the 01 tune is smoother, I'm assuming you mean with the euro tune? Can you tell me more about the issues with the JHM tune that you had and whether your car is a stock 4.2, or if you had other mods on the car? I don't have a preference either way, except just wanting to make sure the car runs as "normal" as possible once everything is done. If you use the 01, do you have to switch anything else out? Like the cluster or ABS module?

[topball]

Nativefx, if it is wiring your worried about im not that far from you. You could bomb over this way for a day and I could rewire the car and work with dazq to get the 01 ecu working for you. He is a great guy and will help till the end. Do you already have an 01 ecu? If so is the immobilizer shut off?

What im saying is that the 01 has far better tune capabilities and that you would be happier with the performance and the smoothness of the throttle response.

The complications with jhm.... I would prefer to mail you privately on this due to the fact that im still fighting them for a in store credit... the car is a b5 s4 that I put the 4.2 in, ps that has nothing to do with programming!!!! Its not some complicated swap.

Am running all the factory s4 stuff, that is just coding. If you want I can help u with an 02 a6 cluster, wont change anything but the looks. Everything will work and function like stock, just with better throttle response and power output. We have been messing with my car for a couple weeks and have got it down for programming. Let me know if u wanna get together and we can do it ourselves.

[redneck truck]

Now THIS is how a forum is supposed to work! Helping each other, keeping good vendors in business and holding bad vendors accountable. Topball, I'd love for you to CC me on the correspondence with JHM, as I've been looking to drop some cash but I don't want to deal with a company that has disreputable practices.


Nativefx, if it is wiring your worried about im not that far from you. You could bomb over this way for a day and I could rewire the car and work with dazq to get the 01 ecu working for you. He is a great guy and will help till the end. Do you already have an 01 ecu? If so is the immobilizer shut off?

What im saying is that the 01 has far better tune capabilities and that you would be happier with the performance and the smoothness of the throttle response.

The complications with jhm.... I would prefer to mail you privately on this due to the fact that im still fighting them for a in store credit... the car is a b5 s4 that I put the 4.2 in, ps that has nothing to do with programming!!!! Its not some complicated swap.

Am running all the factory s4 stuff, that is just coding. If you want I can help u with an 02 a6 cluster, wont change anything but the looks. Everything will work and function like stock, just with better throttle response and power output. We have been messing with my car for a couple weeks and have got it down for programming. Let me know if u wanna get together and we can do it ourselves.

[nativefx]

Topball, I don't currently have an 01 ECU so I would need to source one if I were to go this route and I know it would need to have the immobilizer defeated in order to work in any other application. I'm actually heading over to PDX today for the Bluez Festival but the car is still at the shop as my mechanic was waiting for me to decide if he needed to pull the ECU. He didn't want to shrink wrap all the wiring if there were any problems after the tune was done, so that would have to be done. I really appreciate your offer and I'd like to take you up on it since your not to far away. I need to do some research about getting an 01 ecu first. I'm assuming the 02 cluster is necessary? This isn't a big deal though as we've got the dreaded pixel problem that I was putting off until we got everything swapped and the car running as it should.

I'm really interested in finding out the advantages of the tune capabilites using the 01 ecu, so hopefully once I've been able to do a little research we can talk about this option. I could easily come over on a weekend if your available! Redneck Truck is right, these forums are GREAT for getting help as I've gotten a lot of help during this process from guys on this board! Hopefully at some point I'll be able to return the favor to someone else down the road.....



Nativefx, if it is wiring your worried about im not that far from you. You could bomb over this way for a day and I could rewire the car and work with dazq to get the 01 ecu working for you. He is a great guy and will help till the end. Do you already have an 01 ecu? If so is the immobilizer shut off?

What im saying is that the 01 has far better tune capabilities and that you would be happier with the performance and the smoothness of the throttle response.

The complications with jhm.... I would prefer to mail you privately on this due to the fact that im still fighting them for a in store credit... the car is a b5 s4 that I put the 4.2 in, ps that has nothing to do with programming!!!! Its not some complicated swap.

Am running all the factory s4 stuff, that is just coding. If you want I can help u with an 02 a6 cluster, wont change anything but the looks. Everything will work and function like stock, just with better throttle response and power output. We have been messing with my car for a couple weeks and have got it down for programming. Let me know if u wanna get together and we can do it ourselves.

[Scotty@Advanced]

I've got an 03 ECU and cluster.. 14,000 miles on them.

[topball]

Redneck truck, I will pm u this afternoon...

NativefX, I live less than 15 min from where u will be. I can show u everything and explain to u more in whats involved with the swap? No the cluster is not a must have for the swap. We can just code the cluster to can and your cruise and gauges will work properly; I just didnt know if u wanted the upgraded cluster with the chrome rings. I would tell your mechanic to leave it as it is and just drive the car till u wanna come this way. I can get an 01 ecu to dazq and he can defeat the immobilizer and shoot it back to me, the cost is up to him but I promise u that u will be pleased and it is waaaaaayyyyyy cheaper than the back and fourth to jhm. Im never doing that again lol. Plus a one tune fits all is crap... we can get a tune just for your car, granted it might be based off of my tune. Ill take u for a ride

[nativefx]

I'll PM you my mobile number and lets see if we can meet up at some point? thanks!



Redneck truck, I will pm u this afternoon...

NativefX, I live less than 15 min from where u will be. I can show u everything and explain to u more in whats involved with the swap? No the cluster is not a must have for the swap. We can just code the cluster to can and your cruise and gauges will work properly; I just didnt know if u wanted the upgraded cluster with the chrome rings. I would tell your mechanic to leave it as it is and just drive the car till u wanna come this way. I can get an 01 ecu to dazq and he can defeat the immobilizer and shoot it back to me, the cost is up to him but I promise u that u will be pleased and it is waaaaaayyyyyy cheaper than the back and fourth to jhm. Im never doing that again lol. Plus a one tune fits all is crap... we can get a tune just for your car, granted it might be based off of my tune. Ill take u for a ride

[v8a6]

Just to clarify of few things with JHM, their 6speed swap tune for the 2000 A6 4.2, and my personal experience with them:


The tune is on my car and works perfectly. There is no 'up reving' between shifts, and no crazy idle hunting. Both issues were resolved with the installation of the JHM tune. There is a ABS error in my ECU, but ABS works perfectly.
As far as I know, JHM are the only ones with a working tune for the 2000 A6 4.2 6speed swap. Seeing as the market is so small, and the platform has its challenges, I wouldnt expect another one anytime soon
If there is one company who has put a TON of work and development into the 4.2 platform, it is JHM.
My experience with JHM has been great. They helped me sort out a number of issues with my car that ended up having nothing to do with their tune. I am not exaggerating when I tell you that they have spent over 10 hours on the phone with me helping me with my car, AT NO CHARGE!


I am sure the 01+ harness and ECU swap is a great way to go. I considered it myself, before I finally decided on JHM. However, I dont think it will be any cheaper than a JHM tune, in the end, and it will definitely be more work (and potentially more risk). That being said, I am definitely interested to see how things go if you do the swap. It is always great when someone documents something like this, and adds the knowledge to the forum. There are some differences with the 2000 cars that need to be addressed with the tune (different TB, ABS system, ???), but you will be in great hands with DDillenger doing the tune.

Topball, no offense, but you have a total of four posts on this forum and just joined in Dec 2012. JHM is a well-respected vendor, and contributor, to the site and 4.2 community for the last several years. I am sorry to hear about your issues with your S4 4.2 swap, but it is good that you and JHM are working it out. If you are trying to get a store credit for $1000 from them, you might want to be careful bashing them on a public forum. If they give you a credit, it would likely be a goodwill gesture to keep you a satisfied customer. If you go around bad mouthing them then don't be surprised if they choose not to help you.

Good luck with this portion of the project. I know that it was one of the parts that made me regret not starting with an 01+ car, since there was NO tune available for the 2000 when I first needed it. Just be happy that you have the S6 downpipes with no pre-cats on the 2000 :)

[redneck truck]

v8a6, I would discourage attitude expressed in your post. That a user doesn't talk much makes their input no less valuable; everyone's experience is different. I wonder if, using the Euro S6 tune and 2001+ ECU, you'd have extracted more power with your extensive engine modifications than you saw with JHM's tune. Customer service is nice, but it's not worth $1,000. If you wouldn't mind elaborating, what issues did they identify on your car that affected drivability?

[v8a6]

My build thread outlines all the issues I had, and resolved.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/470167-2000-A6-4-2-Project-Mayhem

The issues that were resolved after the tune, with their assistance were:


intake manfold actuation flaps were configured wrong (RT, you helped with this too)
initake manifold internally damaged
revs between shifts climbing because of missing clutch switch (only had one, originally)
engine timing off due to improper timing belt installation



I am sure the 01 ECU route will work fine in the end, but I dont think it will be cheap as the JHM route or as easy as everyone makes it out to be. The JHM tune for this car is proven, and not $1000 (I think I paid $650)

OP, please keep track of all the hours involved in this, and the money spent, just so we can compare the two in the end. I am not saying one is better then the other, but I always like the simple route. And, in my opinion, that the the JHM tune in this case. You buy a used ECU for $50, send it to them, and swap it in 10 min. No car downtime and no risk, and you end up with a backup ECU. Couldnt be easier than that.

RT, a solid reputation on these forums has be be earned. No offense to Topball, but he doesnt even have an A6, nevermind a 2000 with a 6speed. The 2000 is different than all the other cars. How does it make sense to take advice from someone who, Im guessing, has never even owned one, compared to someone who has a nine page build thread on one sorting out countless issues? Despite what you might think, I am just trying to help here. But, I honestly am more interested in seeing what happens if OP does the 01 ECU swap now LOL. If ddillenger can come up with an awesome tune for it, then that would be amazing.

[topball]

V8a6, I can see where you question the lack of experience due to my four posts and just joining audizine but that doesnt tell you I have no experience with these 4.2 motors. Yes I know that the tb's are different sizes between 00 and 01 but thats what is great about having a friend like ddillenger. He is the one that tunes the car, I do all the mechanical/rewiring/testing and reporting back and he makes adjustments. I have 100% confidence in dazq and would put anyones customer service up against his. This guy has put more hours tuning in 2 days than I got from company x. All im saying is that between him and I, the final product is custom tailored to your vehicle and that makes you happy. Your tune may be great but they should have coded out the abs issue in the computer. What is the code by chance? Maybe I could help?

Am very confident in my work and I feel that I can help with little tricks in the 00 computer to make it run better and stronger. All in all other than the computer programming I would be happy with jhm, I spent 3500 with them in one month alone. I plan on buying more from them, I just want my issue resolved. V8a6 your right about not bashing jhm... thats why im trying not to say too much.

[v8a6]

Sounds good :)

I'm looking forward to seeing how things progress. As I said, I considered the 01+ ECU route myself, just found it was going to cost me more in the end (since I have to pay for shop time), was more complicated, and was undocumented anywhere on the web.

ddlillenger is a great guy. He too has spent more than a few hours answering my technical questions and helping me out with other stuff. The bastard actually has the TB from my 2000! LOL

[jfunkey]

Nothing like people who dont know posting like they do know in hopes of fooling others that dont know...nothing like letting some kid in his basement tell you how hard he worked to try and figgure out what jhm did only to tell you he or other are working hard to try amd help tune tje car....seems people are just getting cheeeper and more desperate

Why should anyone car howhard someone who doesn't know whats going on is trying. My neighbor might try way harder to be the quarterback for the lion's then statford but that dosent make him good at it.

Every oem tune is going to have systems in place that need to be adjusted to help make power. Im pretty sure jhm tested all years of ecu to see what worked and if I remember they save more momey and make the zame if not more power with there set up.

[redneck truck]

True, JHM's tune made 1hp more than the OEM one I got for free and only has a few small issues mine doesn't. The only argument above with which I'm at odds is the ethos; I don't care one bit for someone's credibility or reputation; the moment they know they've got it, they're in a position to tout and abuse it. Results speak for themselves, so maybe we'll have an opportunity to see some fresh talent.

By the way, whatever happened to Vast? I remember hearing they were the only ones to go to for a 2000 4.2 tune :-P

[ddillenger]

Am I the guy that doesn't know that thinks he does that is telling people what he doesn't know in hopes of making them think he does know?

Because I don't know.

lol

[v8a6]

The only argument above with which I'm at odds is the ethos; I don't care one bit for someone's credibility or reputation; the moment they know they've got it, they're in a position to tout and abuse it. Results speak for themselves, so maybe we'll have an opportunity to see some fresh talent.


And this is exactly where we have different opinions. For me, someones credibility or reputation is of great value. Not just in the world of modding Audi's, but in many other areas of my life. I will always put my faith in the person who has a solid, established reputation, before I gamble on the guy who I have never heard of, who just appeared out of the blue.

[8520]

Nothing like people who dont know posting like they do know in hopes of fooling others that dont know...nothing like letting some kid in his basement tell you how hard he worked to try and figgure out what jhm did only to tell you he or other are working hard to try amd help tune tje car....seems people are just getting cheeeper and more desperate

Why should anyone car howhard someone who doesn't know whats going on is trying. My neighbor might try way harder to be the quarterback for the lion's then statford but that dosent make him good at it.

Every oem tune is going to have systems in place that need to be adjusted to help make power. Im pretty sure jhm tested all years of ecu to see what worked and if I remember they save more momey and make the zame if not more power with there set up.

What the fuck did I just read?

[redneck truck]

I don't know, but be sure to reference his first sentence when reading his last paragraph.

[02 A6 2.7T]

What the fuck did I just read?
Bad grammar, along with some other sh!t...

[Justincredible]

And this is exactly where we have different opinions. For me, someones credibility or reputation is of great value. Not just in the world of modding Audi's, but in many other areas of my life. I will always put my faith in the person who has a solid, established reputation, before I gamble on the guy who I have never heard of, who just appeared out of the blue.

especially someone out of the blue that admits he has to look at other tunes to try and figure out whats going on.





True, JHM's tune made 1hp more than the OEM one I got for free and only has a few small issues mine doesn't. The only argument above with which I'm at odds is the ethos; I don't care one bit for someone's credibility or reputation; the moment they know they've got it, they're in a position to tout and abuse it. Results speak for themselves, so maybe we'll have an opportunity to see some fresh talent.

By the way, whatever happened to Vast? I remember hearing they were the only ones to go to for a 2000 4.2 tune :-P

I think your JHM tune is meant to make the car run first and foremost. What you see as a few small issues might be the tower of pain for others. I'm all for talent when there is actually some. Talent isn't peaking over someones shoulder and trying to repeat the same thing. Thats stealing. The same guy who wrote code for vast writes code for JHM.

[Widebody4.2]

Am I the guy that doesn't know that thinks he does that is telling people what he doesn't know in hopes of making them think he does know?

Because I don't know.

lol

All I do know Is you don't know what you think you know

[Widebody4.2]

What the fuck did I just read?

Some guy spewing about credibility in the least credible way possible.

[Trailrider]

Ddellinger, do you tune 2.7t engines?? I'm in Portland looking for someone who can educate me on my car and its capabilities. Thanks!!

[Trailrider]

Ddellinger, do you tune 2.7t engines?? I'm in Portland looking for someone who can educate me on my car and its capabilities. Thanks!!
Wtf?? I'm a dumbass sometimes, my bad! Answered my own question!

[nativefx]

Well I decided I wanted to try and see if we could get the 01 ECU to work on our 2000 4.2 A6. I spoke with topball a number of times the last week or so and we discussed the process necessary. Since he has already done the rewiring before, and it is reversible, I decided I wanted to give it a try so I'm going to be working with topball and ddillenger today on getting it modified. So I'm on my way over to Vancouver WA today to take topball up on his generous offer to help. Nothing against JHM, as I don't have any experience with them, but using an 01 would give me much more flexibility down the road should I decide to make any future changes. We can adjust for the TB of my 2000 and maybe down the road I will look at possibly switching to the larger 01 TB.

[Widebody4.2]

Well I decided I wanted to try and see if we could get the 01 ECU to work on our 2000 4.2 A6. I spoke with topball a number of times the last week or so and we discussed the process necessary. Since he has already done the rewiring before, and it is reversible, I decided I wanted to give it a try so I'm going to be working with topball and ddillenger today on getting it modified. So I'm on my way over to Vancouver WA today to take topball up on his generous offer to help. Nothing against JHM, as I don't have any experience with them, but using an 01 would give me much more flexibility down the road should I decide to make any future changes. We can adjust for the TB of my 2000 and maybe down the road I will look at possibly switching to the larger 01 TB.

I like what I'm hearing

[v8a6]

Good luck with things, and let us know how it works out. I don't think you'll have to worry about switching to the 01 TB, especially with stock A6 heads/cams. The one from the 2000 should be more than adequate. From what I remember, it is the same one used on the B5 RS4.

[ddillenger]

Good luck with things, and let us know how it works out. I don't think you'll have to worry about switching to the 01 TB, especially with stock A6 heads/cams. The one from the 2000 should be more than adequate. From what I remember, it is the same one used on the B5 RS4.

It (the smaller 2000 TB) just required some reworking of the throttle/alpha-n maps for part throttle. It's all done now. Bigger issue is the OP's cam timing! v8a6, yours was a peach compared to his at 20, -7!

[v8a6]

Holy crap! That is not good on the timing. I guess that can be a number of different things wrong, that will take some careful investigating to figure out. That is borderline interference. Is it throwing a code and shutting down the variable cam timing?

[ddillenger]

Holy crap! That is not good on the timing. I guess that can be a number of different things wrong, that will take some careful investigating to figure out. That is borderline interference. Is it throwing a code and shutting down the variable cam timing?

Yepper. Noticed the ecu was keeping the timing fixed in the 2nd cam state, upon investigation I noticed block 93 was showing crazy numbers (20, -7!). Whoever did that belt last wasn't paying much attention.

[v8a6]

Ouch! Yeah, something is WAY off.

[audinutt]

Sounds like a sprocket is off one full tooth in the head

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[ratherb1]

Nothing like people who dont know posting like they do know in hopes of fooling others that dont know...nothing like letting some kid in his basement tell you how hard he worked to try and figgure out what jhm did only to tell you he or other are working hard to try amd help tune tje car....seems people are just getting cheeeper and more desperate

Why should anyone car howhard someone who doesn't know whats going on is trying. My neighbor might try way harder to be the quarterback for the lion's then statford but that dosent make him good at it.

Every oem tune is going to have systems in place that need to be adjusted to help make power. Im pretty sure jhm tested all years of ecu to see what worked and if I remember they save more momey and make the zame if not more power with there set up.

I'll take some of whatever this guys having......

[nativefx]

It (the smaller 2000 TB) just required some reworking of the throttle/alpha-n maps for part throttle. It's all done now. Bigger issue is the OP's cam timing! v8a6, yours was a peach compared to his at 20, -7!

Yeah we ran into a few issues yesterday. One of the intake pods was bound up, so we took it apart and cleaned everything to get it working again. The other one didn't seem to bad, but you could tell there was a little build up so we decided to take that one apart and clean it up as well since we were already looking. Then it was a matter of doing a little re-wiring which most of which topball had already gone through with his own car. Ddillenger and topball were great to work with on getting the 01 ecu installed, coded, and tuned. As ddillenger mentioned, I know need to have my mechanic pull the valve covers and take a look at the cam sprockets to see if the timing is off. The timing belt was done some time ago before we bought the car, by his local Audi dealer so I wasn't expecting to have this issue. Hopefully I can speak to him tomorrow and he can at least take a look so we can decide how to move forward.

All in all, the car is up and running and I do notice a big difference in driveability and power when we were doing the 3rd gear pulls! Once the timing is fixed and ddillenger can then take a look again, we should be able to find out the full potential. I appreciate ddillengers time with getting the immobilizer defeated, tune flashed, and helping with identifying the problems that need to be sorted.

I can't thank Topball (chris) enough for ALL of his help, especially considering we didn't anticipate some of the problems we ran into, but he was MORE than willing to help me out! He and his wife were very gracious and patient hosts. We had only anticipated needing a few hours to get the re-wiring done and the 01 ecu installed and ready to make adjustments to the base tune, but we ended up needing a whole lot more time. Hopefully we can finish everything up once I get a chance to get the timing checked. Topball definitely has a lot of knowledge and skill based on the work he's done on his own car he's completely built and swapped in a 4.2, and the help he was able to give me an explain what was going on. I definitely owe him big time! I'm sure we can work something out in the near future, once I get the timing issue resolved........

[nativefx]

An update:

Well I took the car back up to Topball so we could take a look at the timing issue. We pulled the valve cover on the passenger side to check the markings, and of course the intake cam was off which we pretty much assumed one of them would be off due to block 093 reading. It seems to be off a tooth so that will need to be adjusted.

Now the part we didn't anticipate. We pulled the valve cover on the drivers side to check the timing and it looked fine. But then we noticed something else, which was that there was little tension on the cam chain. Looks like the cam chain tensioner isn't operating properly and we will need to replace this. [:(]

This is not something I was prepared for and its just kind of put a damper on this whole project and this car. We bought it thinking most of the issues were already addressed (rebuilt TIP, timing belt done, full maintenance records from previous owner, etc) and we wouldn't be having to put a whole lot into the car right away. Obviously things have been the complete opposite as we have continued to find out.........

As of now I'm too far into this car to really give up, and with Topball's help we will move forward in getting these issues fixed/resolved and hope we are close to taking care of everything that we need to. Just a little frustrated at the moment.

[v8a6]

My cam chain tensioner on one of my S8 heads had a cracked piece and had to be replaced. The mechanism itself worked fine, though. I remember reading somewhere that they very rarely fail. The plastic pads on them sometimes crack (and then need replacing), but the tensioner itself is pretty robust. Are you sure it is supposed to be tight when the car is not running, or did you check it when it was running?

[nativefx]

My cam chain tensioner on one of my S8 heads had a cracked piece and had to be replaced. The mechanism itself worked fine, though. I remember reading somewhere that they very rarely fail. The plastic pads on them sometimes crack (and then need replacing), but the tensioner itself is pretty robust. Are you sure it is supposed to be tight when the car is not running, or did you check it when it was running?

We noticed the difference in tension between the passenger side and drivers side initially, and so we decided to crank the motor manually to see if the tensioner took up the slack in the chain. It looked like it was extending upwards but still not as tight as the passenger side, and when the top started moving downwards the bottom of the tensioner didn't take up the slack as much.

I'd have to find out for sure whether the tensioner is supposed to be tight when it's not running but given the difference from the tension on the cam chain on the passenger sign, I'm assuming it should be? Anybody else on here know?

[v8a6]

IIRC, one of them adjusts on the top, and the other on the bottom.

http://gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb9136804/p4pb9136804.jpg

That could be why one side looks loose when the car is off. But I am not sure. We need an expert here to comment.

[ddillenger]

If you get it together and get a log with the variables I use, I'll tell you immediately if the tensioner is working properly. This assumes that you correct the timing so VVT is active of course. You can CLEARLY see bad tensioners in logs.

Example of a GOOD tensioner:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2u8kked.png

Minimal movement after changeover, Both banks are parallel and right at 0 degrees advance/retard.

Example of a BAD tesnioner:

http://i44.tinypic.com/aufgwg.png

See the deflection at higher RPM's? Should stay fairly stable and around 0 degrees advance. This one has a bad tensioner causing chain slap, and as a result unstable cam timing.

Redneck has a failing tensioner, his is deflecting a few degrees at higher RPM's as well. It's not as pronounced, but any movement at 7000+RPM is less than ideal.

http://i39.tinypic.com/110954y.png