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View Full Version : wth? head problem with new valves?



MiniBoost
04-17-2013, 05:56 PM
im clueless right now, it was done the right way, and now i see this? idk and it wont let me move it to tdc either wont move now and the caps are at 7 foot pounds



http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac236/Brian_Kearney/head002_zps224dfba9.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Brian_Kearney/media/head002_zps224dfba9.jpg.html)
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac236/Brian_Kearney/head001_zpsc6b548a8.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Brian_Kearney/media/head001_zpsc6b548a8.jpg.html)

walky_talky20
04-17-2013, 06:01 PM
Looks pretty close to TDC. At that position you will have exhaust valves on 2 and the intake valves on 3 slightly open. That appears to be what you've got there.

If the cams can't be turned, that's a problem. Is everything lubed?

MiniBoost
04-17-2013, 06:14 PM
yep, all lubed with everything, its a slight hair off but im trying to move it while the head is off the car so might be why i cant

98A4TurboAWD
04-17-2013, 06:23 PM
If you have it all bolted down and are wrenching on the cam via the cam bolt, then it must be something mechanical. Maybe the cams are bent.

Seerlah
04-17-2013, 06:33 PM
They may be not the easiest to move when the belt is not turning it from the crank pulley. And I would not try and turn it with the crank bolt. But just something I was taught not to do. When I purchased my replacement head, I used a strap wrench on it to test it out. Like I said, not the easiest to budge if not using the crank pulley and belt. When it finally did budge, actually happened unexpected when it did budge and I ended up catching a blood clot under my nail. Of course nail eventually fell off and I have my new nail already. But yeah.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Aluminum-body-strap-wrench/_/N-25ra?itemIdentifier=110282_0_0_

MiniBoost
04-17-2013, 06:35 PM
i got it, sorry for the useless post, kinda freaked out cause im overstressed with everything going on but i got it right thanks for the help

MiniBoost
04-24-2013, 12:48 PM
so how many teeth would the timing have to be off to bend valves again? i brought a cam pulley cause my old one broke, guy i got it from told me it would fit my car and that the timing mark was same, and well he was wrong

Poopie
04-24-2013, 12:57 PM
you can't mix and match 058 and 06a timing belt sprockets.

MiniBoost
04-24-2013, 01:09 PM
after i noticed that mark was different, i lined up the old one and marked the timing right, but are you saying it still wont work right? even with the timing dead perfect?

Poopie
04-24-2013, 01:13 PM
show me pictures. More info on this head would be helpful.

MiniBoost
04-24-2013, 01:16 PM
sorry, my head is an atw and the pulley that i got came off an awm

walky_talky20
04-24-2013, 01:18 PM
I believe it is the belt offset (distance away from the head) that is different.

MiniBoost
04-24-2013, 01:20 PM
I believe it is the belt offset (distance away from the head) that is different.
it was offset and the timing mark was different and i didnt know this until after i started it then it wouldnt start again, so i went threw everything and noticed the timing was off and the pulley had a different timing mark so now im wondering if i bent the valves again

walky_talky20
04-24-2013, 01:58 PM
Even with the 058/AEB cam gear on there, the TDC mark should still be correct, unless you had it installed backwards (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/508777-Exhaust-cam-timing-marks-don-t-line-up-at-same-time). In that case the cams are advanced about 3 teeth, which may have been off far enough to bend valves, yes.

Poopie
04-24-2013, 02:01 PM
there are timing marks on both sides of the atw. if you installed it backwards trying to get the offset correct, you probably damaged your keyway. If you installed it correctly facing the right direction, as walky said, the timing mark should be correct

MiniBoost
04-24-2013, 02:09 PM
the pulley only went on one way, but i know the timing moved the first time cause it wasnt lined up right even tho i spun the motor over afew times by hand to make sure, but when i cranked it, it started for a second and that was it, then thats when i decided to check the timing to see and it was off by tooth ontop and 2 on the bottom -.- man gimme a ford 4.6 gt and i can set those timing chains like nothing but gimme a audi, and hello nightmares -.-

Poopie
04-24-2013, 02:22 PM
Should still be fine. Just reset the timing

MiniBoost
04-24-2013, 03:13 PM
the timing has been reset, but still wont start, im gonna do a compression test once i get the audi back in the morning, stupid shop by me never brought the car in and told my mom to junk it

Poopie
04-24-2013, 03:50 PM
Might have bent some valves then

Poopie
04-24-2013, 03:51 PM
Some pics of the timing could help. Is your cam timing set?

MiniBoost
04-24-2013, 04:34 PM
i dont have the car here yet, i'll be getting it back from the shop in the morning

Seerlah
04-24-2013, 04:48 PM
What year is your car? Or what block is in your car? Your cam gear is supposed to have exactly double the amount of teeth than your crank gear. And I noticed that the part numbers differ between the crank gears from the AEB and AWM. As mentioned before, you can't mix them.

MiniBoost
04-24-2013, 07:52 PM
aeb block/atw head so gonna pretty much say i fucked up and bent the valves cause of that

MiniBoost
04-25-2013, 05:49 AM
dry/wet compression came out to 120psi wouldnt go any higher so i have bent valves -.- and oh some how the fuckin euro shop cracked my windshield!

MiniBoost
04-25-2013, 09:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvGTU3uDaXg&feature=youtu.be heres a video i made the other day of trying to start it

98A4TurboAWD
04-25-2013, 10:07 AM
dry/wet compression came out to 120psi wouldnt go any higher so i have bent valves -.- and oh some how the fuckin euro shop cracked my windshield!

If you have 120 across the board you do not have bent valves.

You should not be trying to fix this car, as your responses make it very clear you do not know what you are doing. You are going to destroy your engine. Pay somebody who knows how to fix it some money to fix the car.

Poopie
04-25-2013, 10:17 AM
you're timing is off. i can hear it in the video.

Seerlah
04-25-2013, 10:34 AM
1. take off front end
2. place as close to dtc as possible
3. take off belt and tensioner (you can reuse this if mileage is really low. place it in a c clamp, recompress it, place pin back in. walky_talky20 said that you should also check for play when the rod is fully extended. if there is, replace it)
4. make sure cams are timed correctly
5. place on correct cam gear (replace the cam bolt)
6. place TB back on correctly and hope for the best

MiniBoost
04-25-2013, 10:40 AM
If you have 120 across the board you do not have bent valves.

You should not be trying to fix this car, as your responses make it very clear you do not know what you are doing. You are going to destroy your engine. Pay somebody who knows how to fix it some money to fix the car.


i sent it to a shop after getting annoyed, it sat outside for 3 days, kept being told that tomorrow it will be in, then my mom called up (since im deaf) and they still havent brought it in and told her that i should just junk the car, they offered to tow it back to my house for free, so i said bring it back, and all he said was "oh cool" then when i got it back, it had a cracked windshield

98A4TurboAWD
04-25-2013, 10:55 AM
i sent it to a shop after getting annoyed, it sat outside for 3 days, kept being told that tomorrow it will be in, then my mom called up (since im deaf) and they still havent brought it in and told her that i should just junk the car, they offered to tow it back to my house for free, so i said bring it back, and all he said was "oh cool" then when i got it back, it had a cracked windshield

Find a reputable shop. Maybe a local member will help you. I've said in the past that if you were in MI I would help you no problem. All my grandparents are deaf and I can sign for you too :). This car isn't super difficult to work on but it does have a meticulous timing setup like many DOHC cars. There isn't a lot of room for error. If you run it with the timing off you can do major damage. You have pulled it apart and put it back together multiple times and are obviously not able to do it right and are going to end up breaking more stuff.

I wouldn't mess with it anymore if I were you. Or you can take it apart and post video's or pictures of all of your timing marks.

Also, when I did mine, I did not go by the timing marks on the plastic cover, I put a long magnet down into the spark plug hole and found tdc that way. You cannot afford to put this together and crank on it with the timing off.

walky_talky20
04-25-2013, 11:04 AM
walky_talky20 said that you should also check for play when the rod is fully extended.

I'm always surprised when you pull out these paraphrases of things I've said a long while ago. I'm like "wait, did I say that?". It's odd because you remember these things while I do not.

Poopie
04-25-2013, 12:00 PM
checking for play on fully extended rods is walky's favorite past time.

Scotty@Advanced
04-25-2013, 12:14 PM
That head resurface doesn't look like "The Right Way". It looks like someone took a scotch bright pad to it.

98A4TurboAWD
04-25-2013, 12:34 PM
That head resurface doesn't look like "The Right Way". It looks like someone took a scotch bright pad to it.


I had assumed he just scuffed it himself with a wheel.

Poopie
04-25-2013, 01:04 PM
never go back to that shop again. I didn't even look at that head surface. There are way better homebrew methods to resurface the head.

Seerlah
04-25-2013, 01:10 PM
I'm always surprised when you pull out these paraphrases of things I've said a long while ago. I'm like "wait, did I say that?". It's odd because you remember these things while I do not.

I remember because you told me directly before reusing it. Picked up the trick from you.


checking for play on fully extended rods is walky's favorite past time.

zing [>_<]

034Motorsport
04-25-2013, 01:15 PM
never go back to that shop again. I didn't even look at that head surface. There are way better homebrew methods to resurface the head.

Sandpaper on a 2x12 block of wood would look better than that.

But 120psi across the board on a cold motor? Generally if a valve is bent, it will be quite off. Difference between the cylinders is generally more an indication of things being bad, rather than just having "low" compression across the board. If you are a tooth off or so on the cam timing (timing between the cams) then you can get lower compression across the board. If the motor hasn't been run in awhile, generally not going to do 160+ psi, and if every cylinder gave you the same reading... You can always do a leak down, or pull off your intake manifold, get the valves closed, and fill the ports with brake cleaner. It will leak out quickly if you have a problem.

Who did the head? Did the valves get lapped and everything?

walky_talky20
04-25-2013, 02:32 PM
checking for play on fully extended rods is walky's favorite past time.

Not really a past time, I generally only check my own. If I'm checking somebody else's, they usually have to pay for it.

MiniBoost
04-25-2013, 02:39 PM
it starts now, but wont stay running, shuts off after a min. and idle surges, could this be from the battery being unhooked and the throttle body needs to be reset right?

walky_talky20
04-25-2013, 02:47 PM
Yes. Or a big intake/vacuum leak somewhere.

MiniBoost
04-25-2013, 08:36 PM
i would have heard the intake leak (my hearing aids pick up odd sounds like that) but the battery has been disconnected for the last 4-5 months

Poopie
04-25-2013, 08:40 PM
Any codes? Sounds like a mad issue

MiniBoost
04-25-2013, 08:45 PM
yeah i do but dont have a scanner and my buddy is coming over tomorrow hopefully with vag-com