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Detroitfire23
04-15-2013, 06:27 PM
I've been collecting parts for a couple of months now & decided to pull the trigger on the tear down. First, I removed the bumper, I have an aftermarket one being painted this week and I have to install my APR intercooler. Then I removed the valve cover, I have one being powdercoated red & it has a threaded piece welded on the back so I can run my new catch can setup.

I also picked up a Psi manifold & a Garrett Gt2871R and some 630cc injectors. I still need some fittings, and I'm planning on making my oil & coolant lines.


http://thumbp10-bf1.mail.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1295299418&mid=AAvtHkgAAVbBUWyRgAMAq2nZ4ts&midoffset=2_0_0_1_312730&partid=2&f=1626&fid=Inbox

http://thumbp10-bf1.mail.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1295299418&mid=AD%2FtHkgAAJ9TUWyRiAXOzCRJNPg&midoffset=2_0_0_1_313589&partid=2&f=1626&fid=Inbox

http://thumbp10-bf1.mail.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1295299418&mid=AArtHkgAAE8IUWyRighi7xetV30&midoffset=2_0_0_1_314446&partid=2&f=1626&fid=Inbox

http://thumbp10-bf1.mail.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1295299418&mid=AAntHkgAACyhUWym1gHLCg27lVk&midoffset=2_0_0_1_316997&partid=2&f=1626&fid=Inbox

http://thumbp10-bf1.mail.yahoo.com/tn?sid=1295299418&mid=AAjtHkgAAHgnUWymwQ6IqD%2BL2bM&midoffset=2_0_0_1_316136&partid=2&f=1626&fid=Inbox

coolgraymemo
04-15-2013, 06:32 PM
work Pictures don't.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/qwert_014/van-damme-red-x.gif

10kredline
04-15-2013, 06:49 PM
OK USA....lol

Detroitfire23
04-15-2013, 06:55 PM
I'm not so good with this kinda stuff, how do i post the actual pic??

Dusty Mauve
04-16-2013, 03:18 AM
Upload them to photobucket, imageshack etc. and link them here :)

Kromodus
04-16-2013, 10:34 AM
work Pictures don't.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/qwert_014/van-damme-red-x.gif

Awesome. [up]

Detroitfire23
04-16-2013, 05:29 PM
http://s299.photobucket.com/user/Detroitfire23/media/IMAG0219.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5

http://s299.photobucket.com/user/Detroitfire23/media/IMAG0220.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

http://s299.photobucket.com/user/Detroitfire23/media/IMAG0221.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

http://s299.photobucket.com/user/Detroitfire23/media/IMAG02221.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

http://s299.photobucket.com/user/Detroitfire23/media/IMAG0223.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s299.photobucket.com/user/Detroitfire23/media/IMAG0224.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Detroitfire23
04-16-2013, 05:32 PM
I uploaded them to photobucket & put the links on here & still nothing! Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!!!!!!!!!!

Dusty Mauve
04-17-2013, 02:47 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0219.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0220.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0221.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG02221.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0223.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0224.jpg

There, I fixed it.
You need the direct link for the images. You can find them here atleast...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/17/9u5e7uru.jpg

whyok
04-17-2013, 03:14 AM
Awesome.

viceprp
04-17-2013, 03:45 AM
What bumper are you going with? APR has a shitty core design and would seriously consider dual w/m inj. What tune are you running?

Detroitfire23
04-17-2013, 05:08 AM
What bumper are you going with? APR has a shitty core design and would seriously consider dual w/m inj. What tune are you running?

I am using a fiberglass aftermarket I picked up for cheap, s far as the tune, I haven't decided yet.

c0r3y.af
04-17-2013, 05:19 AM
What bumper are you going with? APR has a shitty core design and would seriously consider dual w/m inj. What tune are you running?

It can't be much worse than a CXRacing core which I'm running fine on a 3071r. I don't think he'll have any issues running an APR core on a 2871r.

Detroitfire23
04-17-2013, 05:20 AM
I probably don't need the factory air box, what do u guys have as far as an intake before the turbo?

c0r3y.af
04-17-2013, 05:31 AM
I probably don't need the factory air box, what do u guys have as far as an intake before the turbo?

The factory airbox is actually pretty efficient, but with a BT you probably won't have the room to keep it. I just run a cone filter with a heat shield because, well, I don't really have much of a choice. If you go MAFless you can actually just strap a filter right to the turbo and be done with it.

Detroitfire23
04-17-2013, 05:33 AM
What r guys using? Pics? And I don't know much about the mafless setup, what does it take to work?

Detroitfire23
04-17-2013, 01:03 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0227.jpg

I got the air pump & all the turbo crap out of the way.

Detroitfire23
04-17-2013, 01:07 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0226.jpg

intake removed & mess of other crap!

Detroitfire23
04-20-2013, 06:20 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG02311.jpg

I got my powdercoated valve cover back & started mocking up where my catch can is going. Also cleared out a bunch of stuff.

Detroitfire23
04-20-2013, 06:25 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0230.jpg

Getting turbine housing ceramic coated & start putting the manifold & turbo stuff on.

Detroitfire23
04-22-2013, 07:18 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0232.jpg

So I painted the intake & throttle body and put that in place to see how everything fits. I also installed my ceramic coated exhaust manifold to see how it looks. I'm not bolting anything in until I make my oil & coolant lines.

Seerlah
04-22-2013, 07:24 PM
What fasteners are you going to use on that manifold? Don't make the same mistake I did. And if using studs, you are going to have to raise the engine to place the turbo in and take it out. If using bolts, you won't have to. I would suggest milling the flanges, using the Nissan T3 gasket, and Stage 8 locking bolts.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008VR5YCS/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.thenismoshop.com/Nissan-Factory-OEM-Turbo-Inlet-Gasket-14415-4P200--Nissan-T3-Turbo_p_294.html

Cgoon009
04-22-2013, 09:05 PM
That red looks really nice man, I cant wait to see it finished

Detroitfire23
04-24-2013, 06:13 AM
What fasteners are you going to use on that manifold? Don't make the same mistake I did. And if using studs, you are going to have to raise the engine to place the turbo in and take it out. If using bolts, you won't have to. I would suggest milling the flanges, using the Nissan T3 gasket, and Stage 8 locking bolts.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008VR5YCS/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.thenismoshop.com/Nissan-Factory-OEM-Turbo-Inlet-Gasket-14415-4P200--Nissan-T3-Turbo_p_294.html

I did order studs before I read ur write up, so I think I might go with the bolts now. Thanks for the link!

Detroitfire23
04-24-2013, 06:14 AM
That red looks really nice man, I cant wait to see it finished

Thank you & hopefully I can get it done soon!

c0r3y.af
04-24-2013, 06:29 AM
What r guys using? Pics? And I don't know much about the mafless setup, what does it take to work?

It depends on engine code/type of ECU, and what software you're using. If you have an AEB with ME5 you can't do it.

Detroitfire23
04-27-2013, 03:15 PM
What fasteners are you going to use on that manifold? Don't make the same mistake I did. And if using studs, you are going to have to raise the engine to place the turbo in and take it out. If using bolts, you won't have to. I would suggest milling the flanges, using the Nissan T3 gasket, and Stage 8 locking bolts.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008VR5YCS/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.thenismoshop.com/Nissan-Factory-OEM-Turbo-Inlet-Gasket-14415-4P200--Nissan-T3-Turbo_p_294.html

Do I have to mill the flanges to use these bolts? ANd also, where do I get an airfilter to fit my turbo inlet?

Seerlah
04-27-2013, 03:35 PM
I would personally mill the flanges on both the turbine housing and manifold. It is worth the money. If you want to run gasketless, you can do that because your flanges are now completely flat. If you want to run one, I suggest the Nissan one I linked above. After that, use quality fasteners. The stage 8 bolts I linked are great. Use those. Only reason they did not work out for me in the long run was because of the way my setup is. But for you, those would be perfect. But out of all the things I tried, those worked the best, hands down. But I need something stronger and paid more for inconel studs I am currently in the process of putting on (already on car, but car not fully buttoned up yet).

As for filters, your compressor housing is different. You would need to purchase the adapter first. Link is below. Should be the correct one.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-FLS-056&Category_Code=

Then on that, there is the Vibrant Performance short filter that is oiled. I am running that, along with flynnr. Then IE has a short dry filter that may fit your application. I just about guarantee it would. Here are the links to the 2, since the adapter uses a 3" inlet.

http://www.amazon.com/Vibrant-10930-Performance-Air-Filter/dp/B004UR1NH8

Don't let the picture fool you. This is how it really looks. Part number 10930.

http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1022_1038_1078_1236&products_id=1370

Then here is the IE dry unit. I so wish this would fit my application.

http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineering-3-inlet-low-profile-cone-air-filter

Detroitfire23
04-27-2013, 07:07 PM
That sucks, I just bought the regular inlet & outlet adapters, but I'm sure it's not 3"

Seerlah
04-27-2013, 11:50 PM
You are going to run MAFless, correct?

A4TQS
04-28-2013, 12:17 AM
Color looks really good.

Detroitfire23
04-28-2013, 08:12 AM
You are going to run MAFless, correct?

Yes indeed.

Detroitfire23
04-28-2013, 08:12 AM
Color looks really good.

Thank u!

Detroitfire23
04-28-2013, 08:14 AM
I got my braided line from jeggs, where is the best place to get the fittings??

Seerlah
04-28-2013, 09:09 AM
Should have ordered the fittings at the same time from Jegs. Either there or Summitt Racing is what I use. Meaning their brands from their site, versus other ones they list like Earls.

Have a pic of the adapter you have for your turbo?

melomandn
04-28-2013, 02:06 PM
Yes indeed.

Do you have a tune yet?

I have a unitronics 630cc mafless tuned ECU for sale, SAI and secondary o2 are coded out. Lemme know if you're interested

catbed
04-28-2013, 02:17 PM
IMO I would plumb an intake and MAF in. I ran MAFless for the last two years and only recently put in a MAF, and now I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner. So much smoother.

Detroitfire23
04-28-2013, 02:29 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0233.jpg

Cgoon009
04-28-2013, 02:33 PM
^^^Ooooo

Detroitfire23
04-30-2013, 05:11 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0234.jpg

GOODBYNAAIR
04-30-2013, 06:45 PM
Is this what you r looking for ? 3"

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-FLS-056&Category_Code=FLG


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/923119_323017797827459_610150590_n.jpg

Seerlah
04-30-2013, 06:48 PM
What size is that inlet adapter? You could just run that size filter on there. Nothing wrong with that. But I would personally purchase the 3" adapter.

Detroitfire23
04-30-2013, 07:52 PM
What size is that inlet adapter? You could just run that size filter on there. Nothing wrong with that. But I would personally purchase the 3" adapter.

That's problably what I'll do, I'm not worried about that tiny difference right now.

Detroitfire23
05-02-2013, 03:29 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0235.jpg

I just got my turbine housing ceramic coated & re assembled the turbo. I need to reclock the turbo & noticed the waste gate isn't cooperating lol.

Detroitfire23
05-03-2013, 09:47 AM
So my question is, if the waste gate is mounted & can't be moved, how do I re clock the turbo and re connect it??

melomandn
05-03-2013, 03:56 PM
If you loosen the bolts on the cold side then you can re-clock it.

Seerlah
05-03-2013, 04:11 PM
However you clock the turbo, you need to be able to have 2 holes lined up correctly for the WG bracket. Remove those 2 bolts for the WG bracket completely, just loosen the rest, loosen the turbine housing bolts, clock turbo accordingly (drain only has to be able to have a gravity flow right to the sump and the other lines need to be a decent distance from the turbo/downpipe/manifold to not have them bake), and tighten it back up with 2 bolts on the compressor housing that will need to be aligned for the WG.

Easier way to do it is to loosen all the bolts (2 removed for the WG and WG bracket removed), manifold bolted to cylinder head, mount the turbo to the manifold (no need to torque everything down or even use all 3 holes. you only need to use 2 on the longer opposite sides to make the flanges seat flat with each others), clock CHRA , tighten down one bolt for the compressor housing, one bolt for the turbine housing, take turbo back out car, tighten down all the rest of the bolts to the turbine housing (torque them at this time), know where your compressor housing needs to be (since you tightened down that one bolt it will not move), and slightly clock the compressor housing a bit to the 2 closest holes for the mounting bracket for the WG actuator. Hope you understand.

Detroitfire23
05-03-2013, 05:51 PM
Seerlah, I guess I'm confused because there is only the one set of holes on the compressor for the WG.http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0234.jpg

Detroitfire23
05-03-2013, 05:53 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0236.jpg
I got the new dipstick tube installed (The old one was extra fragile).

Detroitfire23
05-03-2013, 05:55 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0237.jpg
I also got the intercooler mounted

Seerlah
05-04-2013, 04:57 AM
Never dealt with an IWG turbo so I was going by your pic with the 2 bolts on the back plate mounting the bracket. I see what you are saying now. So what is that piece of metal mounted to the 2 bolts on the compressor housing back plate bolts? Not fluent on this, but going to leave this link here just in case you may need to purchase it.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-009&Category_Code=

S_Line_A4
05-04-2013, 10:13 PM
work Pictures don't.

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/qwert_014/van-damme-red-x.gif

lol

Detroitfire23
05-05-2013, 06:18 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0243.jpg

So I'm thinking the Bov should be mounted after the intercooler behind the bumper, what do u guys think?

Detroitfire23
05-05-2013, 06:19 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0244.jpg

This is the connector from the turbo to the cross over, do I need either one of these holes??

Seerlah
05-05-2013, 06:29 AM
Not quite sure what you mean by cross over? Also, you need to test fitment of that intercooler with your bumper. I expect some cutting will be involved. And nothing wrong with moving the PS cooler to accommodate for room (ie zip tie to that one bracket bar of the intercooler and place it there). And for some odd reason, it looks like it is sitting too low.

Detroitfire23
05-05-2013, 07:58 AM
Not quite sure what you mean by cross over? Also, you need to test fitment of that intercooler with your bumper. I expect some cutting will be involved. And nothing wrong with moving the PS cooler to accommodate for room (ie zip tie to that one bracket bar of the intercooler and place it there). And for some odd reason, it looks like it is sitting too low.

I'm expecting there will be some cutting, I picked up an after market fiberglass one for $60 & got it painted, so it shouldn't be to much. By cross over I mean the steel tubing that runs across the front of the car that the turbo piping connects to. I also thought it was sitting low, but I have followed Apr's instructions, so we'll see when I get the bumper back.

Seerlah
05-05-2013, 08:14 AM
Not quite sure what's going on with the bung with the brass fitting in it, but the other port looks like that is where you would place your DV/BOV.

Detroitfire23
05-05-2013, 08:20 AM
Not quite sure what's going on with the bung with the brass fitting in it, but the other port looks like that is where you would place your DV/BOV.
I'm not sure either, it came that way Lol. I thought the bov should be mounted on the aluminum tubing?

Seerlah
05-05-2013, 08:27 AM
It can be mounted anywhere on the charge piping. I have mine right before the compressor housing on a t-coupler. The EFR units have them built right into the turbo. Here is where mine is. Far from ideal, but I'll change it later. Due to it's current location, I do get slight compressor surge. That's bad.

http://s24.postimg.org/vl57n6d6d/DSC03750.jpg

Detroitfire23
05-05-2013, 08:34 AM
Would it be more beneficial if it were mounted closer to the throttle body?

Seerlah
05-05-2013, 09:32 AM
Ideally that is where you want it. Theory behind it is the blow back has less distance to travel, so the throttle response would be better. If you notice, just about every BT build on here has it on the cold side piping. Even on the B5 S4, the location of the diverter valves are right before the throttle body.

Detroitfire23
05-10-2013, 05:36 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/th_IMAG0253.jpg
Finally got my catch can finished, put a 90 on it to take the stress off the hose.

Detroitfire23
05-10-2013, 05:37 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/th_IMAG0254.jpg
Also started mocking up the turbo. I have to figure out exact placement so I can get a bracket made to properly re-clock the turbo and use the internal wastegate.

B5DriverUSA
05-11-2013, 02:51 AM
The sad moment when everyone has a 1.8t and I have the 2.8 [=(]
What to do what to do (and don't say sell it)

Looking good

Detroitfire23
05-11-2013, 08:30 AM
The sad moment when everyone has a 1.8t and I have the 2.8 [=(]
What to do what to do (and don't say sell it)

Looking good

Thank u!

Tanzimur
05-13-2013, 07:40 PM
Hey, were you own in the warren/ sterling heights area today? i live down in warren and dont see any b5 pre-face anywhere but mine and today i seen a similar one lol

Detroitfire23
05-15-2013, 05:29 AM
Hey, were you own in the warren/ sterling heights area today? i live down in warren and dont see any b5 pre-face anywhere but mine and today i seen a similar one lol

I live in clinton twp, but my car isn't running just yet.

ElonA4
05-15-2013, 08:21 AM
That may have been me. I work in Sterling Heights but have a post-face. Same Color though.

Detroitfire23
05-15-2013, 06:55 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/th_IMAG0269.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/Detroitfire23/media/IMAG0269.jpg.html)

So I have to get a bracket made so I can use my internal wastegate, kinda slows things down, but what can u do?

Detroitfire23
05-28-2013, 02:07 PM
So I took a little break & had to wait on some parts, got to get back in action!
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0289.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0288.jpg

But I did pick up this nice little piece, thing is a work of art!

Tanzimur
05-28-2013, 02:29 PM
That may have been me. I work in Sterling Heights but have a post-face. Same Color though.

ye were you traveling down hoover?

CMac019
05-28-2013, 04:13 PM
ye were you traveling down hoover?
I never realized how many B5ers were close to me.

Tanzimur
05-29-2013, 08:15 PM
man same here lol theres a 2013 exceedspeed meet june 8 first meet gonna try to get the audi back together and try to head up there

Turbo Nerd
05-29-2013, 08:39 PM
I live 3 streets down from Detroit fire, wish I had the time to help him out a bit but my work schedule is ugly and I don't have time to work on mine.

Detroitfire23
05-29-2013, 08:46 PM
I live 3 streets down from Detroit fire, wish I had the time to help him out a bit but my work schedule is ugly and I don't have time to work on mine.

I actually moved, I'm over by the water now, 14 1/2 between Jefferson & Harper.

Tanzimur
05-29-2013, 08:50 PM
I actually moved, I'm over by the water now, 14 1/2 between Jefferson & Harper.
well damn ik where thats at i live on 13 and hoover

Turbo Nerd
05-29-2013, 08:56 PM
I actually moved, I'm over by the water now, 14 1/2 between Jefferson & Harper.

Oh no kidding, how's the fish flies over there or are they not out yet?

Turbo Nerd
05-29-2013, 08:58 PM
I have to throw this pile in the car one of these weekends, really need to find time to finish this thing.

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr350/sWaDeGFX/BBCF234C-36E5-46B0-A6E3-86FD3ECE2B8D-622-0000000FEE1DD6B1_zps237fc5fd.jpg

Detroitfire23
05-30-2013, 05:49 PM
well damn ik where thats at i live on 13 and hoover

Not far at all!

Detroitfire23
05-30-2013, 05:50 PM
I have to throw this pile in the car one of these weekends, really need to find time to finish this thing.

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr350/sWaDeGFX/BBCF234C-36E5-46B0-A6E3-86FD3ECE2B8D-622-0000000FEE1DD6B1_zps237fc5fd.jpg

None yet & engine is looking good!

Detroitfire23
06-04-2013, 10:50 AM
I need to get an air filter to mount on the 2 1/2 inlet on my turbo, any suggestions?

viceprp
06-04-2013, 02:21 PM
Come filter unless you fab up a cai

Detroitfire23
06-04-2013, 03:36 PM
Come filter unless you fab up a cai

Huh? I'm running a maf-less tune.

Seerlah
06-04-2013, 03:42 PM
Why you need to get a bracket made. I'm sure ATP has what you need.

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 06:40 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0296-20130605-222417.jpg

I'm putting my car back together & can't remember what this little plug is for, any help? Lol

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 06:41 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0299.jpg

How do I double check to make sure this is a T-25 pattern & not a different one?

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 06:43 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0298.jpg

To run my coolant line, am I supposed to run a piece of rubber hose on this & then attach the barbed fitting to that?

Seerlah
06-08-2013, 06:50 AM
That connector goes to your cam position sensor. Also noticed it is missing the metal clip. Those clips do not need to be taken off. What you do is press on them and it releases the connector from whatever it is hooked up to.

And generally T3 housing are for EWG and T25 is for IWG. Way to check is to just really look at the inlet of the turbine housing. T3 is larger than a T25. But here is a pic for reference.

http://s9.postimg.org/4ttn1s4en/flange_size.jpg

As for the coolant line, what I did was cut mine (stock hose) then used a 13mm barb to 6an fitting where I cut. After that, you now can run a 6an braided hose line to your CHRA.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/department/fittings-hoses/part-type/an-to-hose-barb-fittings/fitting-size-1/minus-6-an/fitting-size-2/3-8-in

After that you run your standard 6 an coolant braided hose lines with 6an to m14x1.5 bajo adapter on the CHRA.

Here is a pic with me in the process of making mine. I also placed heat sheathing on that line, because the way I have mine routed can touch the headlight housing. and you can see where I cut on the stock line and used a fuel line clamp over a standard worm clamp to tighten it down.

http://s10.postimg.org/629sn7jnd/DSC03776.jpg

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 07:07 AM
I guess I'm more worried about where my pipe is going to bolt up, isn't there a Nissan 5-bolt pattern that is similar to the T-25? Just want to make sure before I order it.

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 07:12 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG03001.jpg

I bought the lines from Psi already, I believe the one banjo fitting goes on the side of the block & the return goes to that metal coolant line. I'd like to see how guys have run it.

Seerlah
06-08-2013, 07:14 AM
Order what? I also edited my post above with a pic of my setup. And yes, one of the banjo bolts is for the actual block (06A), and 2 for the ports on the CHRA. Yours looks fine the way you have it setup. But I would not have used teflon "tape" on any of the important lines there. Instead use this.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-9904/overview/

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 07:23 AM
I need to order the correct test pipe & I believe it to be a T-25, I just wanted someone to confirm.

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 07:29 AM
That's what I was figuring for the coolant line, thanks for the pic to confirm, makes me feel better!

Seerlah
06-08-2013, 09:39 AM
The t3 testp pipe only has 4 bolt holes for the t31 housing and is sold by Evolution Racerwerks (I purchased mine through Mike Hood when I had the PSi setup). You would need the t25 one that PSI Concepts sells.

http://www.psiconcepts.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=181

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 11:55 AM
The t3 testp pipe only has 4 bolt holes for the t31 housing and is sold by Evolution Racerwerks (I purchased mine through Mike Hood when I had the PSi setup). You would need the t25 one that PSI Concepts sells.

http://www.psiconcepts.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=181

I ordered it earlier, it's the last piece to my puzzle.

Detroitfire23
06-08-2013, 12:00 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0302.jpg

I got all my lines run, just waiting on my ECU to get here, my test pipe & the oil filters I ordered. Then I need to hook up my BOV & MBC.

M-Hood
06-08-2013, 05:21 PM
I need to get an air filter to mount on the 2 1/2 inlet on my turbo, any suggestions?

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=RC-9080
or
http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=RC-9700

But depends on how much room you have in front of the turbo, 2nd one has a offset inlet which would help move the filter away from the head.


This one has a filter top, but might be a little work to fit it on since the flange is 2.438"
http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=RX-4010
http://www.knfilters.com/images/l/RX-4010.jpg

thenj3
06-08-2013, 06:37 PM
as seerlah stated don't use teflon on any coolant or oil lines. use an arp thread sealant or similar. teflon could potentially block the line if it breaks. otherwise build is looking good. i may have missed it but what tuning you going with?

Detroitfire23
06-10-2013, 06:53 AM
as seerlah stated don't use teflon on any coolant or oil lines. use an arp thread sealant or similar. teflon could potentially block the line if it breaks. otherwise build is looking good. i may have missed it but what tuning you going with?

Thank u & I'm using a custom tune. I'll re do the teflon tape tmrw, I didn't realize it was that bad.

zandrew
06-10-2013, 07:54 AM
My build is a lot like yours. I am running a GT2871R and 630cc injectors. Looks clean and I wish I had taken the time you have to get mine more spot on. Props for a clean and well sorted build.

I like the GT2871R. It sems like a good match for an unopened motor and someone that wants to stretch the revs a bit.

M-Hood
06-10-2013, 09:04 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0299.jpg

How do I double check to make sure this is a T-25 pattern & not a different one?

There are 2 versions of the T25 5 bolt housing. You can tell by the bolt locations on the back. What you have is the standard T25 housing, picture below is of the Nissan T25 housing.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Turbochargers/ATP-HSG-180_450-1.jpg

Also the housing you have has .64 stamped on the outside which is a T25 housing. The T3 5 bolt internal WG housing looks completely different on the back.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/T3%20int%20WG%205%20bolt.jpg

Detroitfire23
06-10-2013, 04:01 PM
My build is a lot like yours. I am running a GT2871R and 630cc injectors. Looks clean and I wish I had taken the time you have to get mine more spot on. Props for a clean and well sorted build.

I like the GT2871R. It sems like a good match for an unopened motor and someone that wants to stretch the revs a bit.
Thank u, I always like to keep it looking nice.

Detroitfire23
06-10-2013, 04:02 PM
There are 2 versions of the T25 5 bolt housing. You can tell by the bolt locations on the back. What you have is the standard T25 housing, picture below is of the Nissan T25 housing.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Turbochargers/ATP-HSG-180_450-1.jpg

Also the housing you have has .64 stamped on the outside which is a T25 housing. The T3 5 bolt internal WG housing looks completely different on the back.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/T3%20int%20WG%205%20bolt.jpg

Yeah, I was a little worried, but I did confirm & ordered my psi pipe. It's all coming together now!

Detroitfire23
06-10-2013, 04:53 PM
I could have swore I had a wire plugged into the bottom of my coolant resevoir & I can't find the damn thing now!! Lol

thenj3
06-10-2013, 05:46 PM
haha you did, keep looking

Detroitfire23
06-10-2013, 06:18 PM
Where does that wire run? Maybe I can trace it that way

Seerlah
06-10-2013, 06:20 PM
It is a short wire that comes right off the engine harness. Follow that. It is really close to the false firewall.

thenj3
06-10-2013, 06:33 PM
i believe it is a two pin connector but not positive. it comes right off the engine harness by the o2 sensor connectors.

M-Hood
06-10-2013, 06:59 PM
i believe it is a two pin connector but not positive. it comes right off the engine harness by the o2 sensor connectors.

Correct, it is a D shape plug with 2 wires going into it.

zandrew
06-10-2013, 09:12 PM
Those are actually both Nissan housings. One is RB26DETT and the other is just a standard T25 5 bolt but they are used on SR20DET models. There is also a four bolt that was used on earlier single turbo T25 300Z and the twin turbo setups but are bit hard to come by. Hell the first gen RB20DET actually came with T25 that used a T3 housing.

There is a bunch of different T25 housings but the one he has is the most common found probably 20-1 over the others. The RB style will not work on these manifolds anyway due to the flange design on outlet side being compatible with through bolts only and not studs.

Its funny since they are now "formally" known as T25 flange. I was asking about a T25 TD05H the other day and the shop asked if I meant T2 since that is what the flange that mates to the manifold technically is.

M-Hood
06-10-2013, 11:53 PM
Those are actually both Nissan housings. One is RB26DETT and the other is just a standard T25 5 bolt but they are used on SR20DET models. There is also a four bolt that was used on earlier single turbo T25 300Z and the twin turbo setups but are bit hard to come by. Hell the first gen RB20DET actually came with T25 that used a T3 housing.

There is a bunch of different T25 housings but the one he has is the most common found probably 20-1 over the others. The RB style will not work on these manifolds anyway due to the flange design on outlet side being compatible with through bolts only and not studs.

Its funny since they are now "formally" known as T25 flange. I was asking about a T25 TD05H the other day and the shop asked if I meant T2 since that is what the flange that mates to the manifold technically is.


Best not to confuse everyone since there is 1 type of Garrett housing that they sell as a "traditional" T25 5 bolt housing and then list a T25 housing as a "Nissan". All he was asking is if he has the right T25 housing which would be a Yes. lol

Detroitfire23
06-11-2013, 08:32 AM
Zandrew's turbo knowledge is slightly more than the average bear Lol

I just wanted to make sure so I wasn't held up by a mistake, I want to get this thing going already!

zandrew
06-11-2013, 09:17 AM
Best not to confuse everyone since there is 1 type of Garrett housing that they sell as a "traditional" T25 5 bolt housing and then list a T25 housing as a "Nissan". All he was asking is if he has the right T25 housing which would be a Yes. lol

Yeah I know. I hope I did not confuse anyone as I was hoping to clarify that flanges are basically just that, flanges. I have seen people order a T25 rebuild kit over having a turbo with a T25 flange that was in fact a TD04. I always get the AR mixd up between the T25 and T3 housings.

Detroitfire- Is your housing a Calico coated housing?

Detroitfire23
06-11-2013, 05:32 PM
Yeah I know. I hope I did not confuse anyone as I was hoping to clarify that flanges are basically just that, flanges. I have seen people order a T25 rebuild kit over having a turbo with a T25 flange that was in fact a TD04. I always get the AR mixd up between the T25 and T3 housings.

Detroitfire- Is your housing a Calico coated housing?

Not sure what that is, but I had a local shop ceramic coat the housing & my exhaust manifold.

nynoah
06-11-2013, 07:09 PM
Calico coating is not meant of heat resistance, it is for bearing surfaces and embedded lubrication. Ceramic is for heat issues.

zandrew
06-11-2013, 08:38 PM
Calico coating is not meant of heat resistance, it is for bearing surfaces and embedded lubrication. Ceramic is for heat issues.

Calico is a ceramic coating as well as many other types. They offer many different coating types and this includes doing turbine housings, down pipes, turbo manifolds, etc. They also do bearings and just about anything you can thnk of (I like the Calico D).

I asked if his was Calico coated since their turbine housings that they coat offer black on the outside and gray in the middle.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Calico-Coated-Garrett-Exhaust-Housing-GT3071R-GT3076R-90-Trim-86-A-R-/180989277923?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a23cd36e3#ht_471wt_924

See what I mean?

Also the Calico bearing coating is heat resisitant but not a thermal barrier like what is used on turbine housings, piston tops, turbo manifolds, etc.

M-Hood
06-12-2013, 07:09 AM
Calico coating is not meant of heat resistance, it is for bearing surfaces and embedded lubrication. Ceramic is for heat issues.

http://www.calicocoatings.com/

They are a coating company, they actually do way more then just coat bearings.



Across numerous industries, Calico Coatings is customizing coating solutions that reduce friction and wear, save fuel and increase performance for their clients. Calico's arsenal of coating solutions include ceramic, TeflonŽ, thermal, dry film, PVD and more.

Detroitfire23
06-12-2013, 07:18 AM
Calico is a ceramic coating as well as many other types. They offer many different coating types and this includes doing turbine housings, down pipes, turbo manifolds, etc. They also do bearings and just about anything you can thnk of (I like the Calico D).

I asked if his was Calico coated since their turbine housings that they coat offer black on the outside and gray in the middle.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Calico-Coated-Garrett-Exhaust-Housing-GT3071R-GT3076R-90-Trim-86-A-R-/180989277923?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a23cd36e3#ht_471wt_924

See what I mean?

Also the Calico bearing coating is heat resisitant but not a thermal barrier like what is used on turbine housings, piston tops, turbo manifolds, etc.

The grey is from the sandblasting.

Detroitfire23
06-12-2013, 05:52 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG03056.jpg

I got the correct SS flange for my piping & got it welded on. All pipework is done, all I have left is turbo & pipe install, and throw my new ECU in. Oh and any help with the vacuum lines between my turbo, MBC & BOV would be great! Lol

Seerlah
06-12-2013, 06:01 PM
BOV: If you do the emission delete, just run it right to the intake manifold. Or just take the hose from your dv, and place it into your bov.

MBC: Hook it up just like your n75. One side on your turbo chargers boost reference nipple and the other side to your wastegate actuator nipple. Instructions on your MBC will say what port goes to what.

Detroitfire23
06-12-2013, 06:26 PM
I took out all my emissions crap & it seems pretty easy. It's always a little scary doing shit u haven't done before, but I've come this far with help from everyone.

Detroitfire23
06-14-2013, 03:10 PM
Custom tuned ECU installed, BOV hooked up, just waiting on my Psi pipe & she should be ready to go!

Seerlah
06-14-2013, 03:29 PM
Good stuff [up]

Detroitfire23
06-14-2013, 05:53 PM
Good stuff [up]

And thank u for the help!

Seerlah
06-14-2013, 05:59 PM
No problem. Hope your setup does not give you issues. And looking back at your pics, make sure your pressure ventilation system lines are not kinked.

Tree.
06-14-2013, 07:32 PM
sweeeeet[up]

Detroitfire23
06-15-2013, 07:19 AM
No problem. Hope your setup does not give you issues. And looking back at your pics, make sure your pressure ventilation system lines are not kinked.

My catch can setup? I changed the one fitting to a 90 degree to keep it from kinking up.

zandrew
06-15-2013, 07:36 AM
Have you fired this up yet?

Detroitfire23
06-15-2013, 01:12 PM
Have you fired this up yet?

Nope, still waiting on my pipe from Psi, probably Monday.

thenj3
06-15-2013, 03:51 PM
i waited for my psi test pipe for like 6 months good luck haha

Detroitfire23
06-17-2013, 05:41 AM
i waited for my psi test pipe for like 6 months good luck haha

I got an email saying it was shipped.

Detroitfire23
06-17-2013, 04:59 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0316.jpg

And here it is!

Detroitfire23
06-17-2013, 05:00 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG03171.jpg

And here it is installed. Went really easy & just need to put my turbo in now :)

thenj3
06-17-2013, 07:47 PM
hopefully yours fits better than mine did haha. the pipe and welds look cleaner than mine

Seerlah
06-18-2013, 01:54 AM
Aaron, we had ER make ours. His was from PSi Concept.

M-Hood
06-18-2013, 07:03 AM
Aaron, we had ER make ours. His was from PSi Concept.

ER makes the T3 2.t" PSI pipe, the problem with both of yours is that it was a custom 3" and turns out the jig ER had was made for the 2.5" pipe which is why the 3"pipes didn't fit perfectly.

Plus the OP has the T25 internal WG pipe while you guys had the T3 version which has the external WG dump back into the pipe. This one which as you can see is made by ER.

http://www.psiconcepts.com/store/images/products/large_191_ER_T3_testpipe.jpg

Seerlah
06-18-2013, 12:42 PM
Mien fit with no problem. Aaron's on the other hand was way off, as he described. Only gripe I had was the position of one of the mounting holes on the turbine housing outlet flange. It was a major PIA to deal with because of the angle of the 3" section. Sold it to someone who wanted it only for the 3" section (think he was running the PSi manifold). He cut it where it transitioned down to 2.5" and made his custom exhaust from there.

Crispy222
07-06-2013, 09:37 PM
Updates? Does it run?

Detroitfire23
07-08-2013, 07:33 PM
Updates? Does it run?

I just got my custom bracket today & I'll be putting it together tmrw! I had to have someone make a bracket for my internal wastegate because I had to re clock the turbo.

Detroitfire23
08-25-2013, 07:35 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0390.jpg

I got off my ass & decided to do some work on the Audi, I hit a snag with re-clocking my turbo with the internal wastegate. I had 2 different guys try and make brackets to mount it, but I said "Fuck it!" and I got it welded closed & using a Tial.

Detroitfire23
08-25-2013, 07:36 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0391.jpg

Just another view...

Detroitfire23
08-25-2013, 07:40 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0392.jpg

Turbo & manifold mounted, I have to finish putting on manifold bolts & looks like it's going to be a pain in the ass. Then I just have to connect my lines & keep my fingers crossed!

Believer
08-26-2013, 05:43 AM
What is the gasket that you've used between the downpipe and the outlet on the turbo?

Detroitfire23
08-26-2013, 06:25 AM
What is the gasket that you've used between the downpipe and the outlet on the turbo?

It's the gasket that comes with the PSI downpipe.

Believer
08-26-2013, 06:26 AM
It's the gasket that comes with the PSI downpipe.

Ah alright. My brother is using an adapter to adapt the 5 bolt flange to v band so I'm trying to find a gasket for him.

Crispy222
08-26-2013, 08:17 AM
Ah alright. My brother is using an adapter to adapt the 5 bolt flange to v band so I'm trying to find a gasket for him.

http://www.034motorsport.com/turbochargers-and-accessories-turbocharger-accessories-turbocharger-gaskets-downpipe-gasket-t3-bolt-ford-style-p-19219.html

M-Hood
08-26-2013, 09:02 AM
Ah alright. My brother is using an adapter to adapt the 5 bolt flange to v band so I'm trying to find a gasket for him.

Is it a T3 5 bolt or the T25 5 bolt?


T3 Ford 5 bolt to V-band adapter
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Flanges/Steel/ATP-FLS-021_450.jpg

Uses this gasket (http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-GSK-019&Category_Code=FLG)


T25 5 bolt to V-band adapter
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Flanges/Steel/fls023-001.jpg

Uses this gasket (http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-GSK-016&Category_Code=FLG)

Believer
08-26-2013, 09:19 AM
It's the first one, thanks Mike. I'll forward this along to him. Is it recommended to absolutely use a gasket? He was talking about using some sort of high-temp RTV, doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

Detroitfire23
08-26-2013, 02:29 PM
It's the first one, thanks Mike. I'll forward this along to him. Is it recommended to absolutely use a gasket? He was talking about using some sort of high-temp RTV, doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

Personally I would use the gasket, they r metal & would probably last longer than the high temp rtv.

Detroitfire23
09-06-2013, 05:24 AM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0410.jpg

Everything is done, took a while to get it started, but she's running now :)

98b5
09-06-2013, 11:35 AM
Nice looking engine bay!! Maybe we can get some video? [>_<]

Seerlah
09-06-2013, 01:09 PM
What's going on with your WG dump? I would not point it there like that.

Detroitfire23
09-06-2013, 03:46 PM
What's going on with your WG dump? I would not point it there like that.

Lol, that's the way it came, I have to take it to the shop & fix it. Good one finding that!

Seerlah
09-06-2013, 04:20 PM
See the little dump tube that would work perfect for you? Send the guy a message and ask how much just for that one pipe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/38mm-8PSI-Wastegate-2-Stainless-Dump-Tube-Pipe-Civic-/250838599235?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a67254643&vxp=mtr

DIY WG re-route kit. Just need the bung welded on your downpipe. Downfall is design flaw. You want the wg gas to flow into the exhaust path at a 45* angle and not a 90* angle.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/38mm-Wastegate-Flex-Stainless-Dump-Pipe-MIld-Steel-weld-Bung-Gaskets-/390652364485?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5af4b206c5&vxp=mtr

Detroitfire23
09-06-2013, 06:57 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/35mm-38mm-Turbo-Wastegate-Stainless-Steel-Exhaust-DUMP-TUBE-PIPE/130835824777?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D261%26meid%3D1108485226907669146%26pid%3D10 0005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D390652 364485%26

How about this?

Seerlah
09-06-2013, 07:40 PM
Look at the angle of the flange. That is no bueno for your setup. The link I showed you with the short piece would have the dump point right to the ground. Plus is already seems the perfect length too. See how much they would sell just that for. I would say $40 tops is reasonable. That is with shipping. And when I say reasonable, I say this because a shop would charge more to make one for you.

Detroitfire23
09-07-2013, 11:42 AM
Nice looking engine bay!! Maybe we can get some video? [>_<]


Here ya go http://youtu.be/glVl_jJThCM

M-Hood
09-08-2013, 06:34 AM
Look at the angle of the flange. That is no bueno for your setup. The link I showed you with the short piece would have the dump point right to the ground. Plus is already seems the perfect length too. See how much they would sell just that for. I would say $40 tops is reasonable. That is with shipping. And when I say reasonable, I say this because a shop would charge more to make one for you.

Just have to be careful about running it straight down with a short pipe seeing the motor mount is down there and the axle is just behind that point.

Detroitfire23
09-08-2013, 04:08 PM
Just have to be careful about running it straight down with a short pipe seeing the motor mount is down there and the axle is just behind that point.

What do u suggest?

M-Hood
09-08-2013, 04:48 PM
What do u suggest?

Make it longer going back so it dumps it out near the down pipe. Mine is tucked just under the DP and dumps just after the axle.

Detroitfire23
09-24-2013, 02:53 PM
So I threw some new plugs in today and checked my codes.
17522-O2(lambda) B152
17704-Error in mapped cooling system
18060-Power supply terminal 30, voltage too low, intermittent.
17646-Fuel injector for cyl 2 open circuit
17956-N75 open circuit
17840-Secondary air injection(N112)
17695-(N249) open circuit
16684-Multiple cyl misfire
16686/687/689 cyl 2, 3 and 4.

Any suggestions??

Seerlah
09-24-2013, 03:09 PM
did you erase the codes to see which ones popped back up. Open circuit codes can linger from your simply unplugging it.

Detroitfire23
09-24-2013, 04:09 PM
did you erase the codes to see which ones popped back up. Open circuit codes can linger from your simply unplugging it.

OK, I cleared the codes, started it up & let it run, revved it up and I still have the open circuits for N75, N249 & O2

I'm only using the first O2 sensor & it's new.

Detroitfire23
09-24-2013, 04:18 PM
I'm also getting a little bit of black smoke at idol, and more when it's revved up. WTF??

Seerlah
09-24-2013, 04:25 PM
o2 sensor DTC is for your secondary 02 sensor (B1S2=Bank 1 Sensor 2). It may not be needed for your tune, but that does not mean it does not need to still be plugged in. That would really depend on the tune. Same goes for the solenoids under the IM. You still need to keep them electronically plugged in to keep the ECU happy, if they are no longer there. I personally use resistors on my n112, n249, n75, and keep my secondary o2 sensor still plugged in and plumbed in the downpipe. My tune already has them all written out, but not sure if I would throw a CEL without something there so I took precautions. As for the black some, that is oil. Hopefully it is not your turbo and is just residual oil that will take time to burn off. You are using a restrictor fitting on the oil feed port of the CHRA, correct?

Detroitfire23
09-24-2013, 04:57 PM
I should have been more clear, the smoke in my exhaust & smell tells me it's running rich. I'm sing 630cc injectors & it's tuned for them. And yes, I did use the restictor on the oil line.

Detroitfire23
11-15-2013, 05:09 PM
I haven't updated here in a while, but the car is running great and I put the S4 calipers on the rear with Adam's rotors vented/slotted in the rear and cross drilled/ slotted up front with the A8 upgrade. My only problem now is the clutch seems to be slipping at high boost. So what are my options for a decent clutch? I don't race it, actually drive conservative most of the time.

Crispy222
11-18-2013, 10:14 AM
FX300 at a minimum.

Detroitfire23
11-21-2013, 04:18 PM
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0477-1.jpg

Front A8 upgrade with Adams rotors & SS lines.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/Detroitfire23/IMAG0465.jpg

Rear S4 caliper upgrade with Adams rotors & SS lines.