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View Full Version : southbend stage 2 clutch install w lwfw won't engage.



boot
04-10-2013, 10:46 PM
okay so i just did a southbend clutch with a lwfw and now my clutch won't engage. i have no idea why, when i go to put the car in gear in makes a funny wining noise. i don't know what is going on and could use some insight.

could it be the push rod isn't long enough to disengage the clutch? i did leave the OEM one in. ill probably pull the motor again this weekend and find out what the hell is going on.

redline380
04-10-2013, 11:03 PM
hydraulic clutches are self adjusting, so it seems like a hardware issue to me. you can speculate all you want, but no matter what i think youll be pulling the motor or trans.

there are plenty of things that could be wrong though.
did you remember to put the throw out bearing in?
is the rod seated in the fork correctly?
did you break the fork?
did you have the clutch properly aligned?
was the input shaft splined properly?

how did the trans bolt up? hard? were you able to slide it together or did you have to torque the bellhousing bolts down to suck them together? i mean i could go on and on but either way youll be pulling it apart. something is effed, lets just hope you didnt fuck up anything too bad

boot
04-10-2013, 11:18 PM
hydraulic clutches are self adjusting, so it seems like a hardware issue to me. you can speculate all you want, but no matter what i think youll be pulling the motor or trans.

there are plenty of things that could be wrong though.
did you remember to put the throw out bearing in?
is the rod seated in the fork correctly?
did you break the fork?
did you have the clutch properly aligned?
was the input shaft splined properly?

how did the trans bolt up? hard? were you able to slide it together or did you have to torque the bellhousing bolts down to suck them together? i mean i could go on and on but either way youll be pulling it apart. something is effed, lets just hope you didnt fuck up anything too bad

it lined up fine. when i push the clutch pedal there is plenty of pressure but not much resistance. im hoping and praying it's not totally fucked. or im fucked.

Audiguy1234
04-10-2013, 11:36 PM
When I installed my CM and LWFW. I couldn't engage the clutch and there was plenty of pressure on the slave. Turns out the disk and input shafts spline were stuck together. This meant I could not pull the engine from the tranny. I had to use some scissor jacks to pry them apart. Thank god I was able to use the disc again and it wasn't too bad.

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redline380
04-11-2013, 12:04 AM
it lined up fine. when i push the clutch pedal there is plenty of pressure but not much resistance. im hoping and praying it's not totally fucked. or im fucked.

first thing i would check is the rod. if it isnt seated correctly it wouldnt engage the clutch full. you could get lucky and have it be something like that. but it sounds to me like something in the fork/throw out bearing assembly is effed up

M-Hood
04-11-2013, 06:40 AM
okay so i just did a southbend clutch with a lwfw and now my clutch won't engage. i have no idea why, when i go to put the car in gear in makes a funny wining noise. i don't know what is going on and could use some insight.

could it be the push rod isn't long enough to disengage the clutch? i did leave the OEM one in. ill probably pull the motor again this weekend and find out what the hell is going on.

Is the problem that the clutch wont engage and allow the car to move on its own power or is it that the clutch won't disengage to allow you to go into gear while the engine is running?

Was the car on the ground or in the air when you tried to engage the clutch?

If it is making noise when the car is in gear it could be that you didn't attach one of the axles or the drive shaft allowing all of the power to go to that spot.



it lined up fine. when i push the clutch pedal there is plenty of pressure but not much resistance. im hoping and praying it's not totally fucked. or im fucked.

That usually means that the slave was not installed correctly and that the slave rod is not pushing the fork.

melomandn
04-11-2013, 08:01 AM
Just saw that you're in Rochester, I've had my engine/tranny out a few times. If you want a hand or help troubleshooting feel free to pm me.

boot
04-11-2013, 08:21 AM
Is the problem that the clutch wont engage and allow the car to move on its own power or is it that the clutch won't disengage to allow you to go into gear while the engine is running?

Was the car on the ground or in the air when you tried to engage the clutch?

If it is making noise when the car is in gear it could be that you didn't attach one of the axles or the drive shaft allowing all of the power to go to that spot.




That usually means that the slave was not installed correctly and that the slave rod is not pushing the fork.

The car was on the ground. I think the clutch won't disengage. It goes into gear while the car is on but when I let go of the pedal nothing happens. Its like its still in neutral. And it makes that funny whining noise.

With the car on without pushing the pedal I can't go into gear. I can go into every gear with the car off but it feels like fifth doesn't go all the way in.

Also with the car off and in gear I can push it and it will move.

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grmnmusl
04-11-2013, 08:46 AM
Check ya Axels, I did this once the end came out.

Or its a 2.8 and you tried to use S4 stuff.

boot
04-11-2013, 08:54 AM
Check ya Axels, I did this once the end came out.

Or its a 2.8 and you tried to use S4 stuff.

Its a 1.8t I pulled just the motor. so I think the axels are fine.

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M-Hood
04-11-2013, 09:02 AM
The car was on the ground. I think the clutch won't disengage. It goes into gear while the car is on but when I let go of the pedal nothing happens. Its like its still in neutral. And it makes that funny whining noise.

With the car on without pushing the pedal I can't go into gear. I can go into every gear with the car off but it feels like fifth doesn't go all the way in.

Also with the car off and in gear I can push it and it will move.

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So what you mean is you feel that the clutch is not engaging, disengaging means it is not releasing from the flywheel/PP. If the clutch doesn't fully engage then you would be able to put the car into gear without touching the clutch pedal with the motor running since at that point the input shaft of the transmission would not be spinning.


But what it sounds like is that you have something loose in the driveline since the noise you hear is something in the driveline spinning freely. This is the same noise you would get if you broke an axle and when that happens the car will not move and feel like the clutch is not engaging.

boot
04-11-2013, 09:18 AM
So what you mean is you feel that the clutch is not engaging, disengaging means it is not releasing from the flywheel/PP. If the clutch doesn't fully engage then you would be able to put the car into gear without touching the clutch pedal with the motor running since at that point the input shaft of the transmission would not be spinning.


But what it sounds like is that you have something loose in the driveline since the noise you hear is something in the driveline spinning freely. This is the same noise you would get if you broke an axle and when that happens the car will not move and feel like the clutch is not engaging.

Hmm.. Okay. This is just driving me crazy. I know I installed everything correctly I used my Haynes manual for the install and looked up diys to be sure I did it right. I hope when I pull the motor its not too messed up but who knows.

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M-Hood
04-11-2013, 09:56 AM
Hmm.. Okay. This is just driving me crazy. I know I installed everything correctly I used my Haynes manual for the install and looked up diys to be sure I did it right. I hope when I pull the motor its not too messed up but who knows.

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When you put the motor back in did you do it with the slave cylinder in place or was it pulled out?

boot
04-11-2013, 10:14 AM
It was still in.

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redline380
04-11-2013, 01:07 PM
hmmm... try checking your shift linkage too. taking the motor out couldve aggrivated it

M-Hood
04-11-2013, 02:40 PM
It was still in.

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Ok but was the pressure line still connected? Because you never want to put the motor/transmission back together while there is pressure in the slave cylinder, at that point your just fighting pressure to try and get the block/transmission bolted back together and while doing that you can cause the rod to jump out of the fork instead of pushing it into the slave cylinder.

boot
04-11-2013, 03:47 PM
Ok but was the pressure line still connected? Because you never want to put the motor/transmission back together while there is pressure in the slave cylinder, at that point your just fighting pressure to try and get the block/transmission bolted back together and while doing that you can cause the rod to jump out of the fork instead of pushing it into the slave cylinder.

The line was still connected when I put the motor back in. And the line was pressurized. I never removed the slave or bled the line.

Everything I read in the Haynes Manual and the diys never said anything about bleeding/depressurizing the slave cylinder. So I just installed the clutch and the flywheel. The same way I took the old ones off.

What rod are you talking about? The slave cylinder rod?

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M-Hood
04-11-2013, 04:26 PM
The line was still connected when I put the motor back in. And the line was pressurized. I never removed the slave or bled the line.

Everything I read in the Haynes Manual and the diys never said anything about bleeding/depressurizing the slave cylinder. So I just installed the clutch and the flywheel. The same way I took the old ones off.

What rod are you talking about? The slave cylinder rod?

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Believe me I have pulled and installed my transmission about 40 times, it is way easier to bleed the system then it is to force the block/transmission together with a pressurized slave pushing on the fork that can't move because it is up against the pressure plate. Just way too many things can go wrong when forcing the block/transmission together vs just sliding them together on their own.

DIY's don't always tell you the best way to do the job but really just how they did it.

Yes I was talking about the slave rod, that rod can pop out of the fork really easy and when that happens the pedal won't have as much resistance till the slave reaches full extension and then past that the slave can pop.


I am actually about to drop the transmission again, yesterday I spent about 20 minutes getting everything off to get it ready to drop. Only thing left holding the transmission up at this time is the transmission mounts which will take me less then 5 minutes to remove and drop the transmission with a floor jack.

boot
04-11-2013, 10:46 PM
Believe me I have pulled and installed my transmission about 40 times, it is way easier to bleed the system then it is to force the block/transmission together with a pressurized slave pushing on the fork that can't move because it is up against the pressure plate. Just way too many things can go wrong when forcing the block/transmission together vs just sliding them together on their own.

DIY's don't always tell you the best way to do the job but really just how they did it.

Yes I was talking about the slave rod, that rod can pop out of the fork really easy and when that happens the pedal won't have as much resistance till the slave reaches full extension and then past that the slave can pop.


I am actually about to drop the transmission again, yesterday I spent about 20 minutes getting everything off to get it ready to drop. Only thing left holding the transmission up at this time is the transmission mounts which will take me less then 5 minutes to remove and drop the transmission with a floor jack.

So do I need to remove the trans/motor and then bleed the slave? Or should I make sure it is not pressurized when I put the engine/trans back together.

Either way I'm assuming I'll have to pull my motor. Or drop the trans.

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jvega21
04-11-2013, 11:22 PM
Did you try relieving the pressure from the slave first? And then bleeding it again. Might be worth the 40min compared to pulling the motor/trans

boot
04-12-2013, 06:51 AM
Did you try relieving the pressure from the slave first? And then bleeding it again. Might be worth the 40min compared to pulling the motor/trans

No I haven't tried that. I wasn't sure if that was all I had to do. I'll diff try it today and see if that fixes it.

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M-Hood
04-12-2013, 09:08 AM
So do I need to remove the trans/motor and then bleed the slave? Or should I make sure it is not pressurized when I put the engine/trans back together.

Either way I'm assuming I'll have to pull my motor. Or drop the trans.

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It can have pressure when you take the the motor or transmission out, you want to release the pressure when putting them back in so that pressure isn't being pushed against the fork. It is best to just remove the slave from the transmission till everything is back together, remove the line, pump out all the fluid from the slave by pushing the rod in a bunch of times. Then install the slave by rotating it so the mounting tab is up, slide it in as you guide the rod into the dimple on the fork and rotate it.


If the slave is in there now, just pull it back out and reinstall it with the line removed like I described above.

boot
04-12-2013, 10:52 AM
It can have pressure when you take the the motor or transmission out, you want to release the pressure when putting them back in so that pressure isn't being pushed against the fork. It is best to just remove the slave from the transmission till everything is back together, remove the line, pump out all the fluid from the slave by pushing the rod in a bunch of times. Then install the slave by rotating it so the mounting tab is up, slide it in as you guide the rod into the dimple on the fork and rotate it.


If the slave is in there now, just pull it back out and reinstall it with the line removed like I described above.

I really had no idea the slave had to be bled/depressurized. I'll remove it tomorrow and see if that's the problem.

Thanks again for all the help everyone. At least I now have an idea of what's wrong.

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audinutt
04-12-2013, 10:59 AM
What doesnt make sense is he has cant get it into gear with the clutch pedal released. This indicates the clutch is engaging.
Bleeding a slave doesnt help a clutch engage, it only helps if it wont disengage (press clutch pedal and car wont come out of gear or stop moving)
I would jack up the car, let it idle in 1st gear and see if any output flanges are moving.
I am betting it is something simple like this.

M-Hood
04-12-2013, 11:04 AM
What doesnt make sense is he has cant get it into gear with the clutch pedal released. This indicates the clutch is engaging.


How did you get that he can't put it into gear with the pedal pushed to the floor and the motor running?

From one of his posts.

It goes into gear while the car is on but when I let go of the pedal nothing happens


The problem is he mixed up "engaging" and "disengaging" by switching them up by thinking releasing the clutch pedal was disengaging the clutch when in fact that is engaging the clutch. Once you catch on to that you can understand what he is trying to say.



With the car on without pushing the pedal I can't go into gear.
That is normal seeing you shouldn't be able to go in gear with the engine running and not pushing the clutch in to disengage the clutch. That means the clutch is in fact engaged and the input shaft is spinning. So the problem isn't really clutch related and is most likely something left loose in the driveline after the clutch.

He did that just to see if the clutch was in fact engaged, which was the right thing to do.

audinutt
04-12-2013, 06:53 PM
Agreed, he should not pull the engine without getting under the car and checking it out further.

boot
04-13-2013, 07:18 AM
I'm gonna remove the slave shortly. Results will follow.

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boot
04-13-2013, 09:07 AM
Well I removed the slave and bled the line and still nothing. Now it makes a grinding noise.

I guess I have to pull the motor now and see what's going on.

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boot
04-16-2013, 02:15 PM
Okay so I think it could be the shift linkage that needs adjusting.

I had my car on and without depressing the clutch pedal I tried going into gear and the car did move a little. So I'm thinking the linkage might have gotten messed up and its not going all the way into gear.

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M-Hood
04-17-2013, 08:02 AM
Okay so I think it could be the shift linkage that needs adjusting.

I had my car on and without depressing the clutch pedal I tried going into gear and the car did move a little. So I'm thinking the linkage might have gotten messed up and its not going all the way into gear.

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Seems like you might have a few different issues going on at the same time. If the car moves while the engine is running and pushing the pedal to the floor then the pilot bearing might have failed. When the pilot bearing fails it grabs onto the input shaft making it spin with the crank. This tends to happen when trying to force the transmission/engine together, input shaft hits the 2nd lip of the pilot bearing spreading it open allowing the needle bearings to fall out of place.


BTW the pilot bearing has to go in 1 way since 1 opening is slightly larger then the other. If it is put in backwards the lip will catch the input shaft.

boot
04-17-2013, 06:09 PM
Seems like you might have a few different issues going on at the same time. If the car moves while the engine is running and pushing the pedal to the floor then the pilot bearing might have failed. When the pilot bearing fails it grabs onto the input shaft making it spin with the crank. This tends to happen when trying to force the transmission/engine together, input shaft hits the 2nd lip of the pilot bearing spreading it open allowing the needle bearings to fall out of place.


BTW the pilot bearing has to go in 1 way since 1 opening is slightly larger then the other. If it is put in backwards the lip will catch the input shaft.

I'm guessing my best bet would be to drop the trans to know for sure. The car only moves with the pedal up and trying to go into gear. I can't go into gear without depressing the pedal.

If I don't depress the pedal and try to go into gear it does move a little.

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pac1085
04-17-2013, 07:01 PM
was the shift linkage completely disconnected before you lowered the tranny? when i replaced my clutch again last year i forgot to release it first and it got bent, causing a similar problem


Okay so I think it could be the shift linkage that needs adjusting.

I had my car on and without depressing the clutch pedal I tried going into gear and the car did move a little. So I'm thinking the linkage might have gotten messed up and its not going all the way into gear.

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boot
04-17-2013, 09:19 PM
was the shift linkage completely disconnected before you lowered the tranny? when i replaced my clutch again last year i forgot to release it first and it got bent, causing a similar problem

I only pulled the motor. To get to the bottom 4 bolts on the trans I had to angle the engine upwards. So it might have knocked something. But idk yet. I'm going to have time this weekend and see.

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boot
04-22-2013, 04:00 PM
Turns out my driver side Axel was broken. That caused the grinding noise. Bought a new one and should be here tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

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