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View Full Version : Guys using a gt2871R, a few questions...



Detroitfire23
04-05-2013, 06:36 PM
I'm putting together some parts to upgrade soon on my B5 A4, so far I have a Gt2871R, Psi manifold, 630 injectors, Apr intercooler. Currently on my car I have a Giac tune, test pipe & Borla exhaust. I know I need new oil & coolant lines, is there any other little things I'll need? Also, what fuel pump are u guys running?

.Mad Hatter.
04-05-2013, 06:54 PM
I think you should be able to run the stock fuel pump. You may need a 3 bar FPR and the appropriate intake.

Seerlah
04-05-2013, 06:56 PM
Yes, 630cc tunes use a 3bar fpr while the 440cc injectors use the 4bar fpr. And expect to buy a new tune unless you can find an already tuned ECU for cheap.

zandrew
04-05-2013, 07:20 PM
I am actually in the same boat and going to swap over some stuff next week. Basically I want to get the hang of tuning the Maestro on the stock block before swapping in the one built for power. I also have the Giac PC16 upgrade to be exact. I was wondering if by chance how bad it would run with that tune? Just if I needed to go a couple places and limit boost to 15psi (or a lot less). What that got me to thinking is if with Maestro can you datalog an ECU that is married to the controller? I know you can run diagnostic but it would be nifty to datalog and see how far it is off.

Any suggestions for the install would be sweet. I have been wondering if it would help to remove the headlights and such.

.Mad Hatter.
04-05-2013, 07:24 PM
Mitch, my 440 calls for a 3bar.

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GOODBYNAAIR
04-05-2013, 07:31 PM
Not trying to sound like a noob but why do the 440 call for 4bar and the 630 call for 3 bar? I feel like it should be fliped. Im about to go GTRS and have 630cc, still need to pick up FPR was thinking 4bar. I guess im missing something please explain. humor me please , Thanks

A1 A2 German
04-05-2013, 07:49 PM
My 440 calls for 3.5.

Seerlah
04-05-2013, 07:58 PM
I just learned something new. But the 4 bar and 3 bar thing applies to the Eurodyne tune.

And zandrew, you'll blow up your engine running the k04 tune on a GT2871R. You would simply run way too lean. 15psi is a def no go. 5psi at most, and that is only because it is rather difficult to not hit that on our vehicles. In other words, don't boost.

edit: Geoff, just noticed Unitronics has 3 bar for all their tunes with upgraded turbochargers including the k04-15. Never knew.

zandrew
04-05-2013, 08:14 PM
Yeah I figured it was a bad horrible idea. I have maestro so I can swap to the 440cc file with vr6 maf. I have the 630cc injectors and the big maf but Damn I'm skeptical with it. I'm going to be running lo boost with this for a bit. I have tried to figure out what fpr I need but can't get that info from eurodyne and I have asked.

I could run the 630cc file with vr6 maf and scale it.

spindoctor
04-05-2013, 09:18 PM
Yeah I figured it was a bad horrible idea. I have maestro so I can swap to the 440cc file with vr6 maf. I have the 630cc injectors and the big maf but Damn I'm skeptical with it. I'm going to be running lo boost with this for a bit. I have tried to figure out what fpr I need but can't get that info from eurodyne and I have asked.

I could run the 630cc file with vr6 maf and scale it.

I was running a 3 bar FPR and was told by a fellow member I need to run a 4 bar. I then sent Ctapp an email and asked about it and he confirmed that the AEB 630cc file uses(or rather created from) a 4 bar FPR.

Seerlah
04-05-2013, 09:20 PM
All new info to me. Need to look into this more.

Gumby
04-05-2013, 09:51 PM
I'm running an 034 tune with mine set at 23psi.

Ev14 55lb injectors
Stock fpr
Bosch 044 fuel pump

Detroitfire23
04-06-2013, 03:40 AM
So the stock airbox is useless at this point? I did buy a catch can setup so I can eliminate some of that bullshit. Would I still need the 4 bar if I get a tune?

zandrew
04-06-2013, 04:39 AM
Detroitfire23- When you go to buy the oil and coolant lines there are better deals out there then the pre assembled kits. I got everything to assemble my lines for around $125 and the kits are priced twice that. Consequently I am quite sure they are the exact same parts.

I asked Chris tapp about the fpr of the different tunes and he never replied. I have an AFPR though that works from 3-5 so I will use it.

Does anyonme know if you can datalog on a car that is not running Maestro?

.Mad Hatter.
04-06-2013, 05:41 AM
I can only speak to the 440 tune here but the OEM FPR is 4 bar and when my car was tune at my local Eurodyne dealer he needed to install the 3bar. My car certainly doesn't run lean, flames tell me that. Lol

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Detroitfire23
04-06-2013, 06:45 AM
Detroitfire23- When you go to buy the oil and coolant lines there are better deals out there then the pre assembled kits. I got everything to assemble my lines for around $125 and the kits are priced twice that. Consequently I am quite sure they are the exact same parts.

I asked Chris tapp about the fpr of the different tunes and he never replied. I have an AFPR though that works from 3-5 so I will use it.

Does anyonme know if you can datalog on a car that is not running Maestro?

U don't by any chance have a list of the pieces needed? Lol

zandrew
04-06-2013, 12:12 PM
Yeah somewhere. Give till tonight and I will post it. Its a nice day for change and I am using it too work on my car.

Also what year is your car? There is different line setup for each.

Detroitfire23
04-07-2013, 09:41 AM
Yeah somewhere. Give till tonight and I will post it. Its a nice day for change and I am using it too work on my car.

Also what year is your car? There is different line setup for each.

Mine is an '01 AWM & thank u!

Seerlah
04-07-2013, 10:11 AM
Does anyonme know if you can datalog on a car that is not running Maestro?

Yes you can, with vag com.

$teady$upreme
04-07-2013, 12:29 PM
Before: Unitronics 440cc file. running Bosch 440cc green giants, USRT 3bar fpr, 3" VR6 MAF, GT28 ELIM

Then: Unitroincs 440cc file, running Bosch 440cc green giants, USRT 3 bar fpr, 3" VR6 MAF, GT28RS

Then: Eurodyne 440cc file, running Bosch 440cc green giants, USRT 3 bar fpr, 3" VR6 MAF, GT28RS (very hard to start, eventually car started and car will die. Limped home (10 mins drive) while car shut off on me 3-4 times. Called Chris, told me to put OEM 4 bar fpr and OEM MAF. BAM!! Started instantly. Car runs rich though)

Current: Eurodyne 440cc file, running Bosch 440cc green giants, OEM 4bar fpr, OEM MAF, GT28RS

Tmr: Eurodyne 630cc file, running Siemens 630cc, OEM 4bar fpr, B6 S4 MAF, GT28RS

zandrew
04-07-2013, 01:16 PM
I am asking a different question. Can you datalog with Maestro on an ECU that is not married to the software?

Seerlah
04-07-2013, 01:24 PM
Not that I am aware of.

zandrew
04-07-2013, 01:44 PM
That is aweful nice of Chris Tapp to respond to your questions. Shame I can't get a answer from them.

In all honesty the Maesrto package is junk for anyone running a AEB setup since it is considerably different then the ME7 ECU's.

.Mad Hatter.
04-07-2013, 02:06 PM
Chris is honestly the worst at responding to emails.

zandrew
04-07-2013, 04:43 PM
Detroitfire:

Oil feed-

•1 x 4' long -4 AN braided stainless steel Teflon oil feed line
•1 x M12 x 1.5 to -4 AN adapter fitting (Audi Engine Oil Supply)
•1 x M12 x 1.25 to -4 AN adapter fitting (for Borg Warner/KKK, MHI, and PSi Concept Series)
•1 x M11 x 1.0 to -4 AN adapter fitting without restrictor (for Garrett T Series)
•1 x M11 x 1.0 to -4 AN adapter fitting WITH restrictor (for Garrett GT Series)
•4 x copper crush washers for adapter fittings
•1 x 4 AN male to -4 AN female 90-degree adapter fitting with swivel

Coolant-

•1 x 20" long -6 AN braided stainless steel Teflon coolant return line
•1 x 13" long -6 AN braided stainless steel Teflon coolant supply line
•1 x -6 AN to 13mm barb adapter fitting (for 058 AEB/ATW block supply)
•1 x -6 AN to M14 x 1.5 pitch banjo adapter fitting (for 06A AWM/AMB block supply)
•1 x -6 AN to 10mm barb adapter fitting (for coolant return)
•2 x -6 AN to M14 x 1.5 pitch banjo adapter fitting (to turbocharger)
•1 x -6 AN male to -6 AN female 90-degree adapter fitting with swivel
•6 x 13mm copper crush washers


Drain:

•1 x 11.5" long -10 AN braided stainless steel Teflon oil drain line
•1 x Universal T6061-6 aluminum drain flange (for Garrett GT, MHI, PSi, and Borg Warner)
•1 x Gasket for drain flange
•2 x M8 x 1.25 pitch fasteners (for Garrett GT Series)
•2 x M6 x 1.00 pitch flanged fasteners (for PSi/MHI/Borg Warner/K03/K04)
•1 x -10 AN to 1/2" NTP adapter fitting
•1 x -10 AN to 1/2" NTP 90-degree adapter fitting
•1 x Audi/VW 1.8T oil pan drain flange
•1 x Audi/VW 1.8T oil pan drain flange gasket
•2 x M6 x 1.00 pitch fasteners for oil pan drain flange


This is directly off psi concepts page. They have complete kit for $300. I pieced mine to gether for a lot less.

thenj3
04-07-2013, 04:56 PM
there lines are garbage too. i had them and leaked. when i changed my manifold setup made my own and they came out alot nicer and havent leaked.

.Mad Hatter.
04-07-2013, 05:03 PM
there lines are garbage too. i had them and leaked. when i changed my manifold setup made my own and they came out alot nicer and havent leaked.

Really? Where did they leak? I was going to order a set as cutting AN lines is a pain in the ass and to be honest it would be tough to piece it together for a lot less (less, yes, but I didn't think by much).

Detroitfire23
04-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Thanks again Zandrew. When I decide to jump into this project, I want to have everything set to minimize the down time.

Seerlah
04-07-2013, 05:10 PM
My PSI kit never leaked on me. When I changed my setup, I had to replace 2 lines though with my own (custom made from Jegs/Summit Racing parts) because they were not long enough.

And the Eurodyne ME5 Suite is not garbage. Here is an example of what can be done. Tuned by himself. E85, but you need to understand the restriction of the turbine housing he is using and the power he was able to pull from it.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/461743-Dyno-Results-E85-gas-with-Maestro-tune

.Mad Hatter.
04-07-2013, 05:14 PM
So far it's $72 for Russell lines and $60 for Jegs, no fittings. Going to keep pricing.

thenj3
04-07-2013, 05:20 PM
Really? Where did they leak? I was going to order a set as cutting AN lines is a pain in the ass and to be honest it would be tough to piece it together for a lot less (less, yes, but I didn't think by much).

they leaked where the fitting goes onto the line. the lines i bought from jegs were of much better quality. and i was able to make them fit perfect. when you use the tool kit that jegs sells, it makes cutting and making these lines a piece of cake. its a little expensive but to me its worthy investment.

Seerlah
04-07-2013, 05:30 PM
I used a metal cutting wheel and adjustable wrench when I made mine. Worked like a charm. This is the oil line I had to redo. Also had to redo my coolant return. I used the longer coolant line in the PSi kit for the feed and kept the oil feed from the PSi kit also.

http://s11.postimg.org/mhuqfpboz/DSC03744.jpg

http://s21.postimg.org/mre4jrjvr/DSC03767.jpg

http://s12.postimg.org/q439cqtz1/DSC03771.jpg

http://s15.postimg.org/apt6afha3/DSC03770.jpg

Detroitfire23
04-07-2013, 06:36 PM
Seerlah, what is that fitting on ur oil pan called? Also, I believe I'm supposed to put an oil restrictor in the turbo oil line?

Seerlah
04-07-2013, 06:46 PM
Depending what turbo you run will determine what restrictor you use. You place the fitting directly onto the oil inlet port of the CHRA for the Garrett ball bearing turbochargers. You need an .035" orifice on the restrictor for the ball bearing turbos and .065" for the journal bearings units. The one below is an exact part you would need, because you need to run 4an hose for your oil feed line.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-021&Category_Code=

The adapter on my oil pan is specifically for our engine, and is sold by many companies. It is just an oil drain adapter to run 10an lines. But on mine, I have a 90 degree 1/2" npt to 10an male adapter also placed on. You will need to do this also.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-107&Category_Code=

zandrew
04-07-2013, 08:16 PM
I have all my fittings except the return since I was going to use the line that is already there spliced into the return spout. I have less then $80 in all my setup and they are the exact same quality as PSi. Look and you will find the parts you need. Just be sure to use teflon on the threads.

"Chris is honestly the worst at responding to emails."

Yeah I wouldn't respond to emails either if what I sold was complete shit, which Maestro is for AEB users....

Detroit- If it is Garrett Ball bearing you need .8mm restrictor. It is listed above in the parts list.

ZimbutheMonkey
04-07-2013, 08:47 PM
I am actually in the same boat and going to swap over some stuff next week. Basically I want to get the hang of tuning the Maestro on the stock block before swapping in the one built for power. I also have the Giac PC16 upgrade to be exact. I was wondering if by chance how bad it would run with that tune? Just if I needed to go a couple places and limit boost to 15psi (or a lot less). What that got me to thinking is if with Maestro can you datalog an ECU that is married to the controller? I know you can run diagnostic but it would be nifty to datalog and see how far it is off.

Any suggestions for the install would be sweet. I have been wondering if it would help to remove the headlights and such.

FYI, you'll need a bone stock ECU for your Meastro setup. 99% likely that the GIAC chip is encrypted and it won't accept the Eurodyne Flash. Not too big a deal as you can always sell your PC-16 tune to someone w a Frankenturbo and an AEB as it'll be a good tune for it. But I thought I'd give you a quick heads up before you tried to reflash it and had issues or worse, bricked a perfectly good ECU w a PC-16 tune on it.

zandrew
04-07-2013, 09:32 PM
Zimbu I bought an ECU before hand it is married to it. The Giac has chip soldered in and you can not attach Maestro to a chipped ECU.

I am selling my Maestro and will try to track down a off the shelf tune instead. I would be banned if I stated what I want to do everytime I look at the Maestro dongle and cable.

Detroitfire23
04-08-2013, 06:20 AM
Depending what turbo you run will determine what restrictor you use. You place the fitting directly onto the oil inlet port of the CHRA for the Garrett ball bearing turbochargers. You need an .035" orifice on the restrictor for the ball bearing turbos and .065" for the journal bearings units. The one below is an exact part you would need, because you need to run 4an hose for your oil feed line.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-OIL-021&Category_Code=

The adapter on my oil pan is specifically for our engine, and is sold by many companies. It is just an oil drain adapter to run 10an lines. But on mine, I have a 90 degree 1/2" npt to 10an male adapter also placed on. You will need to do this also.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-107&Category_Code=

Very helpful, thank u.

Mad Cow
04-08-2013, 07:21 AM
Zimbu I bought an ECU before hand it is married to it. The Giac has chip soldered in and you can not attach Maestro to a chipped ECU.

I am selling my Maestro and will try to track down a off the shelf tune instead. I would be banned if I stated what I want to do everytime I look at the Maestro dongle and cable.

If you had done your research you would know that Maestro for M5.x is crap compared to ME7. I would look into a custom tune before anything off the shelf though, they're usually a good deal cheaper and better.

zandrew
04-09-2013, 12:15 AM
Mad Cow the product itself is just fine. You don't have to have all the other bits to actually tune the car. Personally I think the AEB is simpler and is better for someone that wants to keep it simple. There are some nice features for the ME& ECU but nothing special that I would call M5 crap over.

What is crap is the lack of any level of defintion to the setup. Just a simple glossary explaining what each feature is and more importantly each feature scaling. This is what is lacking that drives me nuts. That and the fact I can not get replies for questions that should be answered with the product.

My complaints have little to do with the product itself.

ZimbutheMonkey
04-09-2013, 12:39 AM
Yeah, that 's kinda the shitty part about Maestro for the early engines. Problem is, that it's really the least of all evils. No one wants to have anything to do with the AEB engines as they're already so old. So while maybe you can get a custom tune, it totally depends on your proximity to the tuner and even then, if you change anything, you're stick paying them to re-do your tune again.

As much as it may be a PITA, I'd rather at least have the opportunity to be able to tune on my own terms without having to fuck around sending my ECU back and forth or waiting for someone who knows nothing about my setup to take their best guess over the phone at what might be causing an issue....

Mad Cow
04-09-2013, 07:30 AM
Mad Cow the product itself is just fine. You don't have to have all the other bits to actually tune the car. Personally I think the AEB is simpler and is better for someone that wants to keep it simple. There are some nice features for the ME& ECU but nothing special that I would call M5 crap over.

What is crap is the lack of any level of defintion to the setup. Just a simple glossary explaining what each feature is and more importantly each feature scaling. This is what is lacking that drives me nuts. That and the fact I can not get replies for questions that should be answered with the product.

My complaints have little to do with the product itself.

If you want that you'll have to look through the Funktionsrahmen, unfortunately you're kinda on your own there since the only copy floating around is in German, but google translate can usually more or less make sense of it.

zandrew
04-09-2013, 09:48 AM
Zimbu- I actually have an idea on this. What if I bought an off the shelf tune that is flashed. I should be able to rip it from the ECU as base file just like you do when you setup Maestro. If I did that I "should" be able to go in alter thing that I choose too right?

I could also the share the shit out of it.....

buffalo4404
06-18-2013, 12:43 PM
Hey looking to put gt2871r in audi a4 b5 (1999.5) on stock internals. Would engine be okay with that big of turbo?

redline380
06-18-2013, 01:04 PM
Hey looking to put gt2871r in audi a4 b5 (1999.5) on stock internals. Would engine be okay with that big of turbo?

not really at the level it should be ran at. to properly run that size you'll need upgraded rods as a minimum. most people get away with running a 2860 on stock internals however

Seerlah
06-18-2013, 01:07 PM
I ran my GT2871R at 17-18 psi on stock rods till I upgraded my rods.

M-Hood
06-19-2013, 06:51 AM
Hey looking to put gt2871r in audi a4 b5 (1999.5) on stock internals. Would engine be okay with that big of turbo?

It is as long as you don't run really aggressive timing. So you will want to keep the timing soft and try not to push the boost over 20psi if you want to keep it on the safe side.



Not trying to sound like a noob but why do the 440 call for 4bar and the 630 call for 3 bar? I feel like it should be fliped. Im about to go GTRS and have 630cc, still need to pick up FPR was thinking 4bar. I guess im missing something please explain. humor me please , Thanks

To answer your question, it is that way so the 440 tune is basically running 510cc worth of injector while the other one is running 630cc worth of injector. If you flipped it the other way it would just be 440cc of fuel vs 730cc of fuel.

.Mad Hatter.
06-19-2013, 07:09 AM
It is as long as you don't run really aggressive timing. So you will want to keep the timing soft and try not to push the boost over 20psi if you want to keep it on the safe side.

Would this apply to an elim 2871 as well?

M-Hood
06-19-2013, 07:22 AM
Would this apply to an elim 2871 as well?

Yes and pretty much any turbo in that size.

.Mad Hatter.
06-19-2013, 07:26 AM
Yikes, I should dial it down. Have been running around 21-22psi for the past couple years. I rarely push it but I guess it only takes 1.

Detroitfire23
06-19-2013, 09:36 AM
Just a question off the top of my head, is there any data out there that shows the difference between running a stock exhaust manifold compared to let's say a psi? Or any other high flow manifold? Just wondering the difference in hp/tq and how much quicker the boost would come on.

M-Hood
06-19-2013, 01:42 PM
Yikes, I should dial it down. Have been running around 21-22psi for the past couple years. I rarely push it but I guess it only takes 1.

Well you can run that amount of boost as long as the adv timing is soft right where peak boost/tq hit. Greg ran his 2871r elim at well over 30psi on 110 octane and that was on stock rod 06A. lol

.Mad Hatter.
06-19-2013, 06:50 PM
hmm, well like I said I've got a lot of miles on the setup with no issue, I didn't tune it myself, my local Maestro dealer did.

M-Hood
06-20-2013, 07:24 AM
hmm, well like I said I've got a lot of miles on the setup with no issue, I didn't tune it myself, my local Maestro dealer did.

Then they most likely tuned it with soft timing since the motor has stock rods.

.Mad Hatter.
06-20-2013, 08:08 AM
Hopefully for my motors sake. Lol. Hopping on a dyno next month to see what it puts down.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

M-Hood
06-20-2013, 08:43 AM
Hopefully for my motors sake. Lol. Hopping on a dyno next month to see what it puts down.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Well if it wasn't then I am sure you would have thrown a rod by now. lol

I know someone that ran his GT35r at 30+psi with stock rods and it only lasted a month before it opened up the block for him.

.Mad Hatter.
06-20-2013, 10:54 AM
Ya, I would assume after what is many pulls and a handful of 1/4 runs it would have proven itself too weak, lol.

ZimbutheMonkey
06-21-2013, 11:31 AM
Zimbu- I actually have an idea on this. What if I bought an off the shelf tune that is flashed. I should be able to rip it from the ECU as base file just like you do when you setup Maestro. If I did that I "should" be able to go in alter thing that I choose too right?

I could also the share the shit out of it.....

Any tuner with an ounce of sense will have their files encrypted. That's why you actually need a 100% stock ECU in order to run Maestro.

Besides, the base 630 file that Tapp offers is one of the better off the shelf ones I've seen anyway.