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View Full Version : V6 emissions / smog pump delete questions.



A1 A2 German
02-21-2013, 08:02 PM
I'm in uncharted territory, a smog pump, and V6.

In Arizona we have emissions, but they are really only gas cap and tail pipe emissions and don't do sniff (gas vapors coming from engine bay), and only get a scan (no more live testing on a dyno). You are permitted to have open crank and valve cover breathers.

I want to remove the crank case breather system and smog pump, yet keep the gas tank recirculation (evap) system. I wouldn't mind deleting the evap system, yet it'll throw a code ( yet we don't do sniff, it'll show it's been removed and can handle a couple vac lines to keep it).

So, before getting into the how to, will removing the smog pump throw a code? Hopefully not! It's a spaghetti rats nest in there with ALL emissions goods intact, and need to clear that out.

So if no codes, here's a run down. I'd like to remove the valve cover and crank case hoses and place open breather filters off the crank case and valve covers:

1) The "c"s, is what I'd block off (lower c is to intake boot) correct?
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e259/Blakelikesfood333/Avant/V6emmesionsdelete001_zpsc23c9b4e.jpg

2) The " <---R---> " is everything I'd remove completely, then I'd vent both valvecovers and crank case correct?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e259/Blakelikesfood333/Avant/V6emmesionsdelete002_zpsf3ed8591.jpg

3) When removing the smog pump, the hose leads to the very top of the motor to a hard steal pipe that travels the length of the motor and pops out under the tb, which turns and travels under the coolant tank to a diaphragm? What or where do I go from there? And how far can I do with out codes?

Thanks!

P.S.: The crank case breather mini filter, will likely be replaced with a catch can, but you get the point.

Thanks! Can't wait to get the cr*p outta there! Fingers crossed on no codes for smog pump.

ddillenger
02-21-2013, 09:42 PM
Are we talking SAI pump and the evap system here? Unplugging anything will throw a code and caused a failed readiness monitor. Not sure how your emissions work, but in NY that's a no pass right there. You need to get everything you want to delete coded out.

A1 A2 German
02-21-2013, 09:47 PM
Talking about the smog pump far below the passenger side headlight, and removing it. And leaving the evap system alone.

And for the most part, what I'd be doing is no more different then when we all remove the recirculation system from our 1.8t's and install a catch can system, that doesn't throw codes.

walky_talky20
02-22-2013, 08:23 AM
Removing the Secondary Air Injection (SAI) Pump does not create an immediate code in and of itself. This is because the pump's electrical circuit is not metered, whatsoever. The pump is relay driven, so the ECU cannot tell if it is plugged in and working, vs. sitting in a garbage can. In other words, there is no "SAI Pump - Open Circuit". That code does not exist.

HOWEVER, the "performance" of the SAI system as a whole is definitely metered. And, unfortunately, is done so in a way that is nearly impossible to fake. The ECU commands the pump relay ON, and the N112 solenoid ON, and then sits back and watches the oxygen sensors. It looks for the mixture to appear LEAN (lots of fresh air in the exhaust stream), and thus it knows that everything worked. If it didn't work, you get an "SAI - Incorrect Flow" code. In the most basic sense, the ECU could care less about the pump. It only cares about FLOW.

You cannot reasonably fool that system other than physically pushing fresh air into the exhaust. The only other means of deleting the equipment without triggering a code is to change the software in the ECU.

In summary, deleting the SAI system is nothing at all like deleting the breather system, because the breather system is not metered in any way. No sensors, or performance measurements of any kind.

Mad Cow
02-22-2013, 09:08 AM
It'll also cause the SAI readiness to fail, which could prevent you from passing depending on the laws around there.

A1 A2 German
02-22-2013, 09:10 AM
Thanks! Well then, how about putting a spacer in the back o2, as we do with 1.8ts using test pipes so there's never a code?

walky_talky20
02-22-2013, 11:16 AM
The spacer is to fool the cat efficiency monitor. That trick is not applicable for the SAI system.

I'm not sure how I could have been more clear or detailed about this: there is no reasonable method to fool this system. But still you ask about fooling the system with simple cheats?

ddillenger
02-22-2013, 05:11 PM
Coding it out would set readiness to not supported. If you have to pass inspection or something I could loan you an ecu with everything emissions related coded out (including SAI) but I'd want it back at some point.

[:)]

A1 A2 German
03-03-2013, 06:32 PM
Alright guys, I'm either going 1 or 2 options and have questions for removal of the system:

1) I found someone who claims he can code it to show readiness even when the unit is completely removed, and been coding ECUs for 5 years with no issues.

Or

2) After I pass emissions with everything intact (haven't even registered the car yet) , I'll yank the stuff and purchase 2 years (or more) of registration in one sitting, I wouldn't have to reinstall the pump and hoses till the year 2015 to pass again, then I can re-uninstall it again and be good till 2017.

So, pulling the air pump and all hoses is pretty straight forward, however when I get to the back of each head the lines almost appear to go to EGR valves and into the heads. Can someone give me a break down of removal, need for block off plates and of the sort to clean everything up? Thanks!

k0mpresd
03-03-2013, 06:35 PM
ive been doing ecus for about 5yrs. not 7. ;)

A1 A2 German
03-03-2013, 06:40 PM
ive been doing ecus for about 5yrs. not 7. ;)

You following me [drive]? Wasn't aware that was you on the Vortex forums due to a different user name [:)]. And fixed.

Mad Cow
03-03-2013, 06:42 PM
So, pulling the air pump and all hoses is pretty straight forward, however when I get to the back of each head the lines almost appear to go to EGR valves and into the heads. Can someone give me a break down of removal, need for block off plates and of the sort to clean everything up? Thanks!

Those are combi valves, held in by 6mm allen bolts. You can make a blockoff plate out of any piece of flat steel, just cut it to approximately the same shape and drill some holes. You can reuse the stock gaskets, or just buy some new ones since they're a couple dollars each.

A1 A2 German
03-03-2013, 06:54 PM
Fantastic! Thanks everybody. If anyone knows and/or can think of anything I missed carry on, if not looks like I got all the info I need. Have the sheet metal ready to go [drive].

Mad Cow
03-03-2013, 09:02 PM
I wouldn't use sheet metal, I was talking about something like steel stock because it has to be thick enough to not warp and apply even pressure along the gasket.

034Motorsport
03-04-2013, 10:55 AM
It'll also cause the SAI readiness to fail, which could prevent you from passing depending on the laws around there.

In California, Pre-2000 cars can fail 2 readiness tests so long as there isn't a hard CEL present at the time of testing, which means all you have to do is force readiness in the parking lot.

I imagine Arizona is similar.


Fantastic! Thanks everybody. If anyone knows and/or can think of anything I missed carry on, if not looks like I got all the info I need. Have the sheet metal ready to go [drive].

We carry SAI/Combi valve delete plates. They are $35 for a pair of CNC machined pieces.

http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-components-27t-sai-blockoff-plate-kit-secondary-air-injection-for-2827t-v6-belt-drive-40v-v8-p-21816.html