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View Full Version : clutch exploded my fault or defect



Scottydo
02-13-2013, 12:01 PM
Clutch is a southbend stage 2 endurance with 5000 miles on it never been launched car is currently running a 50 trim with about 320 ft lbs of torque
<a href=http://s1085.photobucket.com/albums/j435/scottydo1990/?action=view&current=20130213_143126.jpg target=_blank><img src=http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j435/scottydo1990/20130213_143126.jpg border=0 alt=></a>

Scottydo
02-13-2013, 12:04 PM
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j435/scottydo1990/20130213_143126.jpg

Scotty@Advanced
02-13-2013, 12:05 PM
What is up with the hole in the side of the block?

98A4TurboAWD
02-13-2013, 12:06 PM
If you installed it correctly then of course it is a defect in the clutch.

Scotty@Advanced
02-13-2013, 12:10 PM
If you installed it correctly then of course it is a defect in the clutch.

Not if the engine threw a rod. A crankshaft stopping in an instance can strip the center out of a clutch disc with ease.

From the same media folder

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j435/scottydo1990/holeinengine.jpg

98A4TurboAWD
02-13-2013, 12:13 PM
Not if the engine threw a rod. A crankshaft stopping in an instance can strip the center out of a clutch disc with ease.

From the same media folder

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j435/scottydo1990/holeinengine.jpg

Haha convenient bit of information for the OP to omit.

I've seen this happen to LS1 turbo guys more than once.

Hole in the engine, clutch rips out of trans, tears into floor boards.

You can lose your feet.

Why did you not mention that you spit out a rod?

Scottydo
02-13-2013, 12:14 PM
Haha that was my old block new block has coated main and rod calico bearings and ie rods thst happened in july

Scotty@Advanced
02-13-2013, 12:16 PM
Haha that was my old block new block has coated main and rod calico bearings and ie rods thst happened in july

Did you re-use the clutch from the thrown rod engine?

M-Hood
02-13-2013, 12:22 PM
If you installed it correctly then of course it is a defect in the clutch.

A defective clutch doesn't last 5k miles, this is why clutch companies have a 90 day warranty.

Plus there is the fact that the clutch looks like it was completely ripped apart separating the friction part of the disk from the hub which isn't going to happen if the clutch failed because of a defect.



Clutch is a southbend stage 2 endurance with 5000 miles on it never been launched car is currently running a 50 trim with about 320 ft lbs of torque

Is that 320 ft/lbs at the wheels or at the crank? Because if it is at the wheels then you are well above the 350 ft/lbs at the crank that clutch is rated for.

98A4TurboAWD
02-13-2013, 12:27 PM
A defective clutch doesn't last 5k miles, this is why clutch companies have a 90 day warranty.

Plus there is the fact that the clutch looks like it was completely ripped apart separating the friction part of the disk from the hub which isn't going to happen if the clutch failed because of a defect.



What evidence are you basing your assumption on that a clutch, if defective, will not last 5k miles? The reason you gave was that they have a 90 day warranty, but to me that is not a reason at all.

I had a defective clutch that lasted me 10k, which I sent back to SPEC for inspection. Share your rationale.

Scottydo
02-13-2013, 12:28 PM
Crank ft/lbs and the clutch was put in when the engine was put in 5000 miles ago in october.

98A4TurboAWD
02-13-2013, 12:29 PM
Crank ft/lbs and the clutch was put in when the engine was put in 5000 miles ago

I will guarantee you that the clutch company will be happy to take the clutch back for inspection. If they're honest and reputable, they will be honest and tell you if they are able to determine the cause of the failure and compensate you if necessary. That is how SPEC operates anyway. They are the only brand of clutch that I use.

Scottydo
02-13-2013, 12:30 PM
Guys I dont care if its my fault I just dont wanna contact southbend and look like an ass I respect everyones opinion.

98A4TurboAWD
02-13-2013, 12:34 PM
Guys I dont care if its my fault I just dont wanna contact southbend and look like an ass I respect everyones opinion.

You cannot possibly look like an ass. Call and explain to them exactly what happened.

They will probably offer to inspect the clutch if you send it back.

Send it to them. They will inspect the clutch. If there was a material defect that they find they will call you and say "Sir, we apologize for the damage to your vehicle. Upon inspection, we noticed that blah blah and that is the reason why this clutch failed prematurely." Then they will offer you some sort of compensation, probably a free clutch upgrade of greater value for the inconvenience.

If they inspect it and find no defect, they will notify you of this as well. There is a local clutch shop to me called "Clutch masters." If you have a place like this, perhaps ask them their opinion first, so that you have two. Non bias, and that of the seller.

You can't lose, nor can you look like an ass by contacting them. You either gain something, or are in the same position you are today.

andyrew
02-13-2013, 12:36 PM
Then give them a call and talk to them. They are not crooks and you telling them, "Hey my clutch friction disk exploded off my inner disk. I havent done any launching or anything but I am running ~ 320lbs of tq. Is this normal for your clutches to do this or is this something you will cover under warranty?"

Present it to them in that way and they will defend their product. If you purchased the clutch new from them then they will likely send you a new disk. It probably cost them $50 to make a disk, and the reputation they maintain is much more important than that measly $50..

M-Hood
02-13-2013, 12:38 PM
What evidence are you basing your assumption on that a clutch, if defective, will not last 5k miles? The reason you gave was that they have a 90 day warranty, but to me that is not a reason at all.

I had a defective clutch that lasted me 10k, which I sent back to SPEC for inspection. Share your rationale.

I don't know, maybe the 10+ years of experience dealing with 1.8t clutch kits from 4 different clutch companies including South Bend.

A slipping clutch at 10k miles is not a manufacture defect since there are plenty factors that can cause that. Material falling off the disk because the rivets failed or the glue failed is a manufacture defect.


Guys I dont care if its my fault I just dont wanna contact southbend and look like an ass I respect everyones opinion.

All they are going to do is to see pics and then tell you what they can do for you.


Crank ft/lbs and the clutch was put in when the engine was put in 5000 miles ago in october.

I am surprised because that is pretty low tq for a 50 trim on a 1.8t seeing that is just 250 tq at the wheels if the car is Quattro.

NDub034FYL
02-13-2013, 12:42 PM
A defective clutch doesn't last 5k miles, this is why clutch companies have a 90 day warranty.

Plus there is the fact that the clutch looks like it was completely ripped apart separating the friction part of the disk from the hub which isn't going to happen if the clutch failed because of a defect.




Is that 320 ft/lbs at the wheels or at the crank? Because if it is at the wheels then you are well above the 350 ft/lbs at the crank that clutch is rated for.

That's odd, my stg 2 southbend came with a 1 yr warranty. Sorry to hear about that Scotty.

Scottydo
02-13-2013, 12:43 PM
I really appreciate it guys ill contact them

M-Hood
02-13-2013, 01:05 PM
That's odd, my stg 2 southbend came with a 1 yr warranty. Sorry to hear about that Scotty.


Yes SB warranty is 1 year which is what their site states, but that is just their policy and can refuse the warranty during that time if they want which is also stated on their web site.


The Limited Warranty will NOT BE VALID under any of the following express conditions:

When Flywheel was not replaced or resurfaced to specification.
Clutches which have been altered, improperly installed, or damaged by accident, negligence or misuse.
Burned Clutches.
Installed by someone who is NOT a certified mechanic.
Products which were NOT SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE and were USED IN A HIGH PERFORMANCE AND / OR RACING APPLICATION.


I had someone that threw the clutch a in the trash, then took it back out of the trash and sent it in to SB to have it rebuilt for free under warranty and that too was past the 1 year mark. So it is really just up to the clutch company if they are going to warranty it or not.

Scotty@Advanced
02-13-2013, 01:09 PM
Guys I dont care if its my fault I just dont wanna contact southbend and look like an ass I respect everyones opinion.

Southbend has been pretty fair with their warranty. I had a few VW clutches break suddenly and even though the oldest was almost 2 years and 40,000 miles out of warranty Southbend replaced the clutch.

Scottydo
02-13-2013, 01:17 PM
Ive only had good dealings with southbend so just waiting to hear back from them

walky_talky20
02-13-2013, 01:46 PM
Since nobody else is addressing this, I will.

That tattoo is...pretty extreme. I like the German flag colors. That's a nice touch.

98A4TurboAWD
02-13-2013, 03:28 PM
I don't know, maybe the 10+ years of experience dealing with 1.8t clutch kits from 4 different clutch companies including South Bend.

A slipping clutch at 10k miles is not a manufacture defect since there are plenty factors that can cause that. Material falling off the disk because the rivets failed or the glue failed is a manufacture defect.



All they are going to do is to see pics and then tell you what they can do for you.



I am surprised because that is pretty low tq for a 50 trim on a 1.8t seeing that is just 250 tq at the wheels if the car is Quattro.

Your experience is impressive but it does not undermine the initial claim nor does it strengthen what you initially said. Also, my clutch was not slipping after 10k. You assumed that.

M-Hood
02-13-2013, 07:33 PM
Your experience is impressive but it does not undermine the initial claim nor does it strengthen what you initially said. Also, my clutch was not slipping after 10k. You assumed that.

I was making a point of what tends to be considered "defective", but you seemed to have missed that. I was saying if a clutch starts slipping at 10k miles that is not going to make it a defective clutch.


Yeah I have no idea about clutch claims seeing I deal with clutches every day of the week and have gotten clutches warrantied for people when others refused to help. lol

98A4TurboAWD
02-14-2013, 05:31 AM
I was making a point of what tends to be considered "defective", but you seemed to have missed that. I was saying if a clutch starts slipping at 10k miles that is not going to make it a defective clutch.


Yeah I have no idea about clutch claims seeing I deal with clutches every day of the week and have gotten clutches warrantied for people when others refused to help. lol

Where did the last line even come from? That wasn't implied in any way. Your posts are riddled with assumptions and Napoleon type responses.

BThomas220
02-14-2013, 06:10 AM
Yeah I have no idea about clutch claims seeing I deal with clutches every day of the week and have gotten clutches warrantied for people when others refused to help. lol

Arrogant and petty post. ^

On to the topic at hand. Would it be safe to assume that the torque rating on a clutch, is determined by the force that a pressure plate can clamp with vs the clutch material. Lets stick to Organic Material for the sake of argument.

If this was the case then the clutch should have slipped, therefore protecting the clutch plate from excess torque, and ripping it apart.

M-Hood
02-14-2013, 08:56 AM
Arrogant and petty post. ^

On to the topic at hand. Would it be safe to assume that the torque rating on a clutch, is determined by the force that a pressure plate can clamp with vs the clutch material. Lets stick to Organic Material for the sake of argument.

If this was the case then the clutch should have slipped, therefore protecting the clutch plate from excess torque, and ripping it apart.


Yeah it is so petty of me that I have gone out of my way to help people for the last 10+ years.


Yes it is if you are just comparing 1 type of material, the more clamp load the more tq the clutch will be able to hold. Which is why the SB SS-O has a higher tq rating then the HD-O, both use the same exact organic disk. The SB HD pressure plate has a clamping load of 1650 lbs while the SS is 2400 lbs. The CM 228mm HD pressure plate is 1800 lbs and their 240mm PP for the A4 1.8t is 2200 lbs.

flynnr
02-14-2013, 09:24 AM
Not if the engine threw a rod. A crankshaft stopping in an instance can strip the center out of a clutch disc with ease.

From the same media folder

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j435/scottydo1990/holeinengine.jpg

Lol kinda creepy that his other personal pictures were looked at...

BThomas220
02-14-2013, 09:29 AM
Yeah it is so petty of me that I have gone out of my way to help people for the last 10+ years.


Yes it is if you are just comparing 1 type of material, the more clamp load the more tq the clutch will be able to hold. Which is why the SB SS-O has a higher tq rating then the HD-O, both use the same exact organic disk. The SB HD pressure plate has a clamping load of 1650 lbs while the SS is 2400 lbs. The CM 228mm HD pressure plate is 1800 lbs and their 240mm PP for the A4 1.8t is 2200 lbs.

You are right, not petty in that aspect, actually very good business practice!

Thanks for the response to the question. It definitely make it seem like it is a manufacturer defect, unless he some how managed to install the transmission crooked or something.

walky_talky20
02-14-2013, 10:06 AM
Lol kinda creepy that his other personal pictures were looked at...

They aren't personal if you post them to the public internet.

M-Hood
02-14-2013, 10:11 AM
You are right, not petty in that aspect, actually very good business practice!

Thanks for the response to the question. It definitely make it seem like it is a manufacturer defect, unless he some how managed to install the transmission crooked or something.

Doesn't look to be any uneven wear on the disk material that is showing in his picture. It could be that some how the disk got welded and it got ripped part at that time or after while trying to get it loose. The full face feramic material is known to weld itself to the metal surface of the PP if it gets too hot and that is the material is used on the stage 2 HD-OFE endurance clutch kit.

flynnr
02-14-2013, 10:52 AM
They aren't personal if you post them to the public internet.

I guess I disagree to an extent. They can still be personal pictures even if he put them on his public photobucket. My point was I thought it was creepy that he dug through the guys other pictures to try to call him out as being a liar / not disclosing the whole truth, which was a fail... I just didnt think the guy needed to go into detective mode to try to stop the OP from going anywhere with the thread. The OP probably didn't realise that others could find his user name and search through his other pictures he saved to his photobucket account by only posting up a picture... if he did, he might as well have just post up a link to his account and said 'look at the 3 most recent pictures' or something.

Just my opinion.

walky_talky20
02-14-2013, 10:58 AM
^I gotcha. The main point here isn't about the expectation of privacy (this is the internet, there is none). It's more about people jumping to incorrect conclusions based on other random photos in the album. I mean, the OP may not even have a tattoo. He could just keep photos of random guys on his photobucket. So there's a conclusion that I jumped to, haha.

Also my opinion. lol

Artiemas
02-14-2013, 01:38 PM
^I gotcha. The main point here isn't about the expectation of privacy (this is the internet, there is none). It's more about people jumping to incorrect conclusions based on other random photos in the album. I mean, the OP may not even have a tattoo. He could just keep photos of random guys on his photobucket. So there's a conclusion that I jumped to, haha.

Also my opinion. lol

It's a hella cool, dedicated tattoo none the less...

Scotty@Advanced
02-15-2013, 07:29 AM
My point was I thought it was creepy that he dug through the guys other pictures to try to call him out as being a liar / not disclosing the whole truth, which was a fail... I just didnt think the guy needed to go into detective mode to try to stop the OP from going anywhere with the thread.


If you copy and paste the OP's first link (the one that doesn't work), you are directed to their album. First picture is the clutch and second picture is the windowed engine, along with a few others. There was no detective work beyond a simple cut and paste of the link posted by the OP.

My apologies to the OP, I wasn't calling you out just trying to explain how a failure like that could occur, which is not the case as you stated.

However I've seen many instances where there is much more to the story than the OP lets others to believe.

walky_talky20
02-15-2013, 08:55 AM
For the record, I wasn't calling you out at all, Scotty. You provided some information that was useful and applicable to the discussion. And you asked the OP about the other photos before you jumped to any conclusions, no matter how easy they were to jump to. No worries.