snow observations

[stumpjumper]

I had the car in and un-plowed lot for the first time today to see how it behaves and I think it's just a tad boring and predictable.

I tried both levels of traction and I can't stand the way they both cut throttle, if you learned how to turn with the throttle the traction and stability are horrible in snow, if you were comfortable without nannies before turn them off - I think they suck

Mine is a manual, so we're talking about first and second up to the rev limiter with no worry about up-shifting and I always have the diff in dynamic and I didn't try anything else.

The car can hold a drift angle very easily, but once there getting it to rotate fully takes some work and the lack of a handbrake is a major bummer. That said doing figure 8's in 2nd around the lot was pretty easy, the wheel didn't require constant adjustment like some of my older cars.

I think I miss the handbrake a lot more than I'd expected to.

[Jones2012s4]

When my traction is off it never cuts throttle.


http://youtu.be/hBKGl7kd31Y

[stumpjumper]

When my traction is off it never cuts throttle.

mine cut throttle with just the 1st level off, 2nd level on, with both levels off it didn't

[PitchS4]

Isn't predictability in snow a good thing?

I echo with both ASR and ESP off no throttle cut (diff in dynamic). Are you a B8.5?

[Vandalrg]

No throttle cut here with both levels off either. DSG 8.5.

[Jones2012s4]

mine cut throttle with just the 1st level off, 2nd level on, with both levels off it didn't

Sorry, in your second paragraph however you said you tried both levels of traction off and couldn't stand the way it cuts the throttle

[stumpjumper]

ok wasn't clear enough, I wanted to see how each behaved...

fully tc on - cuts throttle
1st level off - still cuts throttle
fully off - doesn't cut throttle

[stumpjumper]

Sorry, in your second paragraph however you said you tried both levels of traction off and couldn't stand the way it cuts the throttle

just fixed that - no coffee yet

[ENV²]

Yea I have to agree with you that if you are experienced driving other cars in snow then turning ESP/TC off makes it much easier to drive in the snow. I also didnt miss the handbrake until snow started coming down. Now I get sad when I cant pull on a handbrake to do extra control techniques....

[MrFunk]

Boring = safe
Predictable = safe

The car is obviously meant to be that way. These safety systems have saved lives because the average person has no idea how to react in slick conditions and get into accidents.

Just turn off the safety systems - which you mentioned above - and have fun. Don't complain either - at least we CAN turn off the nannies. There are several cars out there that do not have that capability!

[richib86]

Boring = safe
Predictable = safe

The car is obviously meant to be that way. These safety systems have saved lives because the average person has no idea how to react in slick conditions and get into accidents.

Just turn off the safety systems - which you mentioned above - and have fun. Don't complain either - at least we CAN turn off the nannies. There are several cars out there that do not have that capability!

QFT

[ENV²]

Boring = safe
Predictable = safe

The car is obviously meant to be that way. These safety systems have saved lives because the average person has no idea how to react in slick conditions and get into accidents.

Just turn off the safety systems - which you mentioned above - and have fun. Don't complain either - at least we CAN turn off the nannies. There are several cars out there that do not have that capability!

This

[mattchat]

I always turn off the first level in the snow, and never had throttle cut-off even at that stage. Turning off ECS though is just silly :-0 Gotta say the predictibility is perfect, lots of tail end drifting but just enough front wheel traction to hold it forward without throwing a spin.

[westwest888]

I had the car in and un-plowed lot for the first time today to see how it behaves and I think it's just a tad boring and predictable.

I tried both levels of traction and I can't stand the way they both cut throttle, if you learned how to turn with the throttle the traction and stability are horrible in snow, if you were comfortable without nannies before turn them off - I think they suck

Mine is a manual, so we're talking about first and second up to the rev limiter with no worry about up-shifting and I always have the diff in dynamic and I didn't try anything else.

The car can hold a drift angle very easily, but once there getting it to rotate fully takes some work and the lack of a handbrake is a major bummer. That said doing figure 8's in 2nd around the lot was pretty easy, the wheel didn't require constant adjustment like some of my older cars.

I think I miss the handbrake a lot more than I'd expected to.

Um. So the car drives great in snow, but it's a bad drift car when someone who doesn't know what they're doing tries to make donuts? That's what this post is about?

More constructively, try some finesse with the throttle. Roll on, roll off, get the weight transfer right, and the car should come around. Or just do it on a wet skidpad at a racetrack instead of at a school near your house.

[stumpjumper]

Um. So the car drives great in snow, but it's a bad drift car when someone who doesn't know what they're doing tries to make donuts? That's what this post is about?

More constructively, try some finesse with the throttle. Roll on, roll off, get the weight transfer right, and the car should come around. Or just do it on a wet skidpad at a racetrack instead of at a school near your house.

I was simply stating observations, nothing more, as somebody who use to ice race I've had to learn a thing or two about car control on slick surfaces and was more or less expressing that I 1: loathe newer traction control systems and 2: miss the hand brake

[richib86]

miss the hand brake


/thread

[Norm_S4]

/thread

Ok got me here... I'm french so what does this mean? just curious unless you meant miss "the hand brake" as in Miss America... but i still dont get the whole thing. I give up I'm stupid [headbang]



I think I miss the handbrake a lot more than I'd expected to.

Ok also got me here... I'm still french ;-) but in this case why if all trannies are off would you need a hand break on our AWD cars? With the amount of torque this thing's got, the gas pedal should do the trick? I honestly dont practice much of the drifting techniques with an AWD. I did have a blast with the FWD but I cant afford another S4 so I refrain from remotely thinking of balls out driving with htis thing but I still enjoy a little side car with the throttle.

Just an observation here but I'm not sure its all that good of an idea to have a hand brake on our cars ass stated on other posts not everyone handles slippery conditions the same way. Then again it would be interesting to see if we had one.

[13S4]

Hand brake E-brakes only lock up the rear wheels. That is why you had fun with a FWD car. Try pulling the hand brake with a RWD car, it doesn't do anything.

[stumpjumper]

Try pulling the hand brake with a RWD car, it doesn't do anything.

That's not true, it does exactly the same thing, the difference is you can't apply power and the brake at the same time - but handbrake turns still work exactly the same way.

Norm - the handbrake is a wonderfully fun and quick way to get the back around without applying power and that is useful when applying power would otherwise cause a problem like in a tight area. Is it particularly practical in every day life? Probably not, but knowing how to turn the car with it is a great skill to have, and exceptionally fun.

Now I'm not suggesting you lock the back brake and try to goof off like you could with a FWD car, but there are plenty of applications for hand brakes on loose and slippery surfaces. As somebody who lives in the great white north you have ample opportunity to learn them.

[Norm_S4]

Ok revamping this but I've got to say this thread got me thinking...

As I mentioned in a post earlier on, I have fun with the car but never really go out and do relatively crazy stuff so in winter, which if you are in the cold belt, can appreciate all that an Audi is really built for in my opinion. So anyways never really disengaged the ESP and all assistance simply because I wasn't into pushing it.

Well low and behold, after commenting here about the handbrake, we got a quick 5 inches of snow I could not let go by without an excursion somewhere in a big parking with no one around.

I decided I'd go for it and let her rip. So took off all assistance and started to do figure 8s with my son in the car (he's 17) and we had so much fun I forgot to take any videos but we have a few pics of what the car looked like... man I had the car sideways in 5 inches and I easily got snow over the roof in the blowing winds.

The car was revving in 2nd gear between 3500 and 6000 RPMs. All I can say is its demental.

To folks not wanting to get the ESP off? Dont pass another storm without at least trying it in safe conditions. Audi engineers have to be the luckiest guys in the world to have to test these things.

I actually drove off the lot forgetting to let the ESP back on and (it was midnight no one around) on a corner in the middle of empty roads and buildings drove in the curb and got in pure bliss sliding around. Wow what a car.

Just wanted to share. You have to try this if its on the bucket list and sooner than later.