Frozen catch can, white/ grayish smoke, need input from the 2.0TFSI gurus!

[kloeb2]

I've been on vacation for the past few days and haven't driven the car much. It's a mostly stock (034 catch can and 034 TIP) b7 quattro MT. I started it up this morning when it was around 15 degrees out. Went inside for a few minutes and came out to see white/gray smoke billowing out the exhaust. I shut the car off and started looking for the problem.

My 034 CC drain is rerouted back into the crankcase and what i think happened is the tiny, maybe 3mm ID rubber hose froze and backed up the catch can. I've never emptied it since I put it on. I've probably had it for 8 months now. What I think was happening is the frozen catch somehow allowed coolant to mix with the oil. I took the catch can off, let it thaw out and poured a ton of water and oil out of it.

Now my dipstick and oil cap are milky brown (oil mixed with coolant). There also appears to be a small leak in my valve cover. I can see a tiny amount of oil coming from it. The car does not smoke nearly as much as it was and it's driving fine, but I suspect this problem is not over.

I plan on changing the oil and valve cover gasket before I drive it again, but I'd also like to hear from the 2.0 gurus on what else I can check to make sure there aren't anymore problems.


Here's a pic of a small portion of ice that came out of the catch can.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff283/raveypoo13/download_zps6788f534.jpg

Anyone else with a catch can, make sure you drain it frequently in cold weather!! Thanks in advance.

[11move]

8 Months! well there is your problem I empty mine out every 3000-5000km's Its not a no service item it does have to be drained/emptied often at a minimum every oil change

[AudiTFSI3o3]

your problem is not dumping it out for 8 months

[Rodmar]

Lol don't give the guy grief this just happened to mec I think and be hadn't emptied it out for a year I thought he said hahahaha

[A-BlacK_MambA-4]

Mine is only a 750mL catch can and I can usually fill up a 500mL water bottle after about 1000 miles or so. I can't imagine it after 8 months or so.......

[11move]

Nice Granite :)

Empty it out next time, its a mixture of mainly water and some oil gunk. Water likes to freeze in our climates :)

[kloeb2]

It's the 034 catch can which is supposed to re-route the water blowby back into the crankcase so regular emptying isn't necessary. The drain line froze and the catch can filled up. In the future, I will not rely on the return line and empty it regularly.

Now is there anything I can check to make sure this didn't cause any more problems, or can I just change the oil and valve cover gasket. The milky oil concerns me..

[TFSI]

Is this another type of flame? lol

Anyways, why don't you just let the rubber hose hanging down so it can drain as it collects oil? I also have 034 Catch Can and did the re-routing back to oil pan, but it was leaking and messy. Took out the adapter and just left the hose towards ground.

[groundround]

yea what they all said LOL, that thing has been full for some time now i bet!!

[kloeb2]

Is this another type of flame? lol

Anyways, why don't you just let the rubber hose hanging down so it can drain as it collects oil? I also have 034 Catch Can and did the re-routing back to oil pan, but it was leaking and messy. Took out the adapter and just left the hose towards ground.

Thanks for the suggestion and understanding the design of the 034 cc before jumping to a quick conclusion like everyone else in here.

I though about letting it drain to he ground but I may as well just close it, put a ball valve on and empty it regularly at that point instead of slowly drip water and oil everywhere.

[TFSI]

It wont drip water and oil everywhere. Just cut the rubber hose long enough that it sticks out maybe .5 inch under the belly pan and secure it with good tape or zip tie.

[11move]

Thanks for the suggestion and understanding the design of the 034 cc before jumping to a quick conclusion like everyone else in here.

I though about letting it drain to he ground but I may as well just close it, put a ball valve on and empty it regularly at that point instead of slowly drip water and oil everywhere.
Don’t just assume we jump to conclusions. I closed mine and empty it out regularly as I don’t trust it to drain on its own. The reason being is exactly the reason of what happened to yours.

[groundround]

yea that can get clogged pretty easily it's not all just liquid it catches, there is some pretty gunky shit in the mix.

[mec]

Lol op if it makes you feel better I'm a senior member, had my catch can two years, consider myself reasonably tech savvy so much that i am building a race engine, AND my catch can froze yesterday and smoke filled up my cabin, keep a bit of vodka and maybe a long screwdriver in your car if you don't like emptying it. Worked very well for me.

[Charles.waite]

If your valve cover gasket is leaking you should replace it. Its likely with the increased pressure from the clogged CC, you blew it out. Valve cover gaskets are super easy and are like $20 so just do it.

[groundround]

i have an extra gasket i was gonna use but i ended up buying a whole new vc that came with one. I could do $15 shipped if you want.

[Rodmar]

That's a damn good price ^^^^

[kloeb2]

Lol op if it makes you feel better I'm a senior member, had my catch can two years, consider myself reasonably tech savvy so much that i am building a race engine, AND my catch can froze yesterday and smoke filled up my cabin, keep a bit of vodka and maybe a long screwdriver in your car if you don't like emptying it. Worked very well for me.

Lol, makes me feel.. slightly better. Thanks. Vodka is a good tip but I doubt it would stay in the car very long without getting drank.


If your valve cover gasket is leaking you should replace it. Its likely with the increased pressure from the clogged CC, you blew it out. Valve cover gaskets are super easy and are like $20 so just do it.

This is what I figured happened. I may as well just get an alum vc while it's off :)


i have an extra gasket i was gonna use but i ended up buying a whole new vc that came with one. I could do $15 shipped if you want.

Perfect. pmed. Thanks.

[jimrobbington]

It wont drip water and oil everywhere. Just cut the rubber hose long enough that it sticks out maybe .5 inch under the belly pan and secure it with good tape or zip tie.

This is what I do. It always drains. I get a nice little bitty puddle under the car after the car is warmed up and I park it.

Sent from my porcelain throne.

[mec]

Meh, VC gaskets cost $12-14 with tax locally.

If you need an aluminum VC i may be selling mine. I managed to spend all of my funds within 2 months lol. So now I will begin selling the old to pay for the new.

[your daddy]

$10 says you broke the valvecover. been there dont that doing the same thing. put a new cover on, and a different reroute, working on the trial stage. so far so good, and cant break the internals of the cover like you did (most likely siphoning oil from cover, and going into the turbo inlet and burning.)

[derrek]

It's the 034 catch can which is supposed to re-route the water blowby back into the crankcase so regular emptying isn't necessary.
I thought the whole point of a catch can was to keep all that crap out of your engine?

[CharlesP2009]

Not many environmentalists on this forum it seems with all the suggestions to drain catch cans onto the road or dumping them down the kitchen sink, and all the deleted catalytic converters! [:p]

[mec]

Lol my friend is an art major and I tried to explain both catch cans and Hfc while we were in the garage one day and he looked at me like I was crazy, all he would say was "...but that's terrible for the evironment!" to which I promptly responded " but racekor!"

[Brillo]

Agree with [B]CharlesP2009[B] that draining catch cans to the ground and cat delete is not cool.

[Giantsfan10]

this happened to me about a week ago. i just did the valve cover gasket. while doing the gasket i found 2inch of oil in cyl 3. i've got oil leaking all over the place and can't figure out where. hopefully valve cover was the entire cause. every morning after the first mishap i drain the can and squeeze the rubber lines of the catch can.

[TFSI]

Not many environmentalists on this forum it seems with all the suggestions to drain catch cans onto the road or dumping them down the kitchen sink, and all the deleted catalytic converters! [:p]

It's all good, there is only minimal amount of water/oil on the ground. It'll blend in with rain, nothing to worry about. At least I have HFC [:)]

[CharlesP2009]

Do you boys that cut out the catalytic converter get to run leaded gasoline too? [o_o]

[turbowop]

Do you boys that cut out the catalytic converter get to run leaded gasoline too? [o_o]

That's what I used to do with my Mitsu. 110 octane leaded gas for the track. Turn up the boost and timing and have a blast! But instead of doing that, I eventually went to meth injection and have been running that for seven years so I can also have fun on the street [>_<] . Still don't run a cat in that car, but I do in my Audi.

[cdn_b7a4]

This is what I do. It always drains. I get a nice little bitty puddle under the car after the car is warmed up and I park it.

Sent from my porcelain throne.

I had my CC freeze on me last month (temp around -15 C) and have been running with the drain open since then in hopes of preventing it.

However, it froze up on me last night. Temp was close to -20 C and I hadn't driven the car for almost 3 days.

I went for a drive to get the car up to operating temperatures and it was running fine until the motor warmed up. Then it started puking white smoke out the exhaust and began to idle rough and died on me. I had to park it at the side of the road and go back to it this morning (a lot warmer then it was last night). When I started it up it was still idling rough and putting out more white smoke for a few minutes, but ended up running fine.

I'm currently running an IE VC, with both the VC and block venting to the CC (Moroso unit), which then vents to my down-pipe.

Has anyone else had their CC freeze up when running with an open drain? I have no idea what to do to prevent this other than taking a butane torch to the outside of the CC when its really cold out.

[Biged243]

Just a thought but maybe a 12v heating element at the bottom of the can that you switch on and off and run it for like maybe 5 minutes in the morning.

[Der Konig]

Wait....so I have to empty this thing? Why are you ragging on him? I mean 034 does say this
From 034....


Key Features / Product Warranty

We've been hard at work on our new 034Motorsport B7 Audi A4 2.0T FSI Catch Can Kit! This kit was designed to offer bolt-on installation and hassle-free use, with a fully-recirculating design and oil drain system to ensure that the can never has to be emptied.

Our catch can kit is engineered to completely eliminate the most problematic assembly of the factory PCV system, and can be installed with all engine covers in place. (Trimming is required.)


Soooo I am having issues with this too, just started spewing white smoke that might have a bluish hue to it. [facepalm] Damn you IL and your crappy weather.

[Charles.waite]

Just a thought but maybe a 12v heating element at the bottom of the can that you switch on and off and run it for like maybe 5 minutes in the morning.

Maybe move the catch can above the cat? I heard those things get toasty!

#nottotallyserious

[your daddy]

i empty every week in the winter. once you see smoke, usually you popped the valvecover inside, and its junk. i did a bypass on mine, and GRAIL s on here, and out catch cans have been working flawlessly with this setup. mines over a year. you need to dump it though so it doesnt freeze.
GRAIL s blew the valvecover that was on his car in like a week. even with hose bypass. replaced cracked valvecover, and has been going sting since.

[kloeb2]

I ditched the 034 cc and went with a vta set up. No chance of freezing now

I forgot i started this thread almost exactly a year ago.... Shit i've done a lot/spent a lot/learned a lot about these cars since then...

[p0isin]

I also ditched the cc for winter and am running open lines straight down to prevent moisture from freezing it closed. It's worked fine for a few weeks now.

No matter what I tried with the cc attached it kept freezing.

[Der Konig]

How are people draining the 034 catch can? Doesn't exactly have a lid like the others. Just turn it upside down and bang it around?

[Mc Suly]

I'm having similar problems with this shit too, my catch can was empty though. i got the 034 recirculating catch can setup.
Somehow i got coolant in my oil too. Mocha color and all too (all engine oil). oil in exhaust coming out of the dp and all. Fluctuating rpms at idle, than car stalls. thick smoke coming out smells like burning oil

Possible Theory ?
Maybe excessive crankcase pressure caused by frozen CC blew out not only the valve cover gasket the head gasket too.
Considering the head gasket is what keeps the oil and coolant separate.
The oil in the crankcase gets over pressurized and pops the head gasket to coolant passage.
Coolant seeps into crankcase.

[olethalb]

Now i might be wrong in saying this but thought audi use corrugated pipes so they hold water droplets in the pipes when cold and when engine gets hotter / blowby gasses get hotter they start to evapourate droplets in the pipes.

This is my theory on why catch cans fill up so fast as pipes are all smooth internally so any condensation / moisture will run straight into the can. Obviously the can probably builds up condensation inside in the cold too.

Olly

[CWJC]

So in short it would be best to run a vta (vent to air) setup? Least maintenance and less problems especially in the winter.

[Lazze]

Maybe a heated catch can:
http://iloapp.holm-gren.se/data/_gallery/public/28/1334693385_resized.jpg
http://iloapp.holm-gren.se/data/_gallery/public/28/1334693413_resized.jpg

[mec]

So in short it would be best to run a vta (vent to air) setup? Least maintenance and less problems especially in the winter.

Vta is never a good solution. Vta is the equivalent fix to having a leak in your roof and placing a hose under it that routes the leak to the window. It's sloppy doesn't fix anything and gets rid of the benefits of a pcv system. Vacuum in the crankcase helps pull out moisture and fuel from your oil, contaminants that make you need more frequent oil changes. Your rings also won't seal as well with vta so you will get more fuel and carbon in your oil. More carbon equals more gunk in your engine and that increases your chances for clogging the pickup tube or just lodging in the rotating assembly.

Run the oem pcv system and accept the fact that you will have to clean the valves once every two years.

Or get a catch can and empty it frequently or drain it back to the pan. The whole idea is that the vapor and moisture in the crankcase air is extracted and burned, many ways to get the same effect but vta is not one of them

[papadelogan]

Mine froze up on me this morning too. Maybe because I bought Martin's old 034 setup and it has a memory and likes to fill & freeze. Damn you Martin!! :)

Maybe we should see about a group buy on valve cover gaskets in DEC of every year....

[abzoni]

My pcv is the poop and making a god awful whistling noise, I was just going to throw on my 034 cc but after reading this I might just buy another pcv... Anyone want to buy a never used 034 cc? Lol

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk 2

[mec]

The issue with the 034 CC is the top tube. It goes almost all the way down to the base of the can, so if you don't drive hard and get all the gunk to evaporate, you end up with a nice layer of ice at the bottom, that makes it so the top tube can't get any crankcase air, the crankcase pressurizes, oil goes into the exhaust and you've got white smoke. When I had my 034 CC it only froze once on me, but I hadn't emptied it in like 6 months, luckily I had some vodka in the trunk, poured it in and shook the can and it melted!

[00_Bora]

I have an 034 cc as well and I'm not sure how some of you guys are running a drain hose to the ground...that keeps the system open at all times. When i installed mine, I forgot to close the drain plug on the bottom and my idle went crazy when I started my car. Didnt go away either. So i'm curious how some of you can run an open system like that without any issues.

Side note; I accumulate about 4x more liquid in the winter than summertime with my catch can so I'm always draining it in the winter. Probably once every 2 weeks and get at least 1/3 of a water bottle full of shit.

[p0isin]

I understand vta is not ideal bit I removed my cc and have straight lines running downwards and I haven't had any issues with rough idle or anything else. Oil looked normal at 3500 miles.

I'm not trying to advocate for it anymore but it does work for me.

[CWJC]

Cool, thanks for the advice!

[mec]

I understand vta is not ideal bit I removed my cc and have straight lines running downwards and I haven't had any issues with rough idle or anything else. Oil looked normal at 3500 miles.

I'm not trying to advocate for it anymore but it does work for me.

The oil will look the same, but do this, take a sample of your oil now, and send it to blackstone, then create vacuum in your crankcase with a pcv system, and sample the oil after the same mileage and send it in. To the eye it looks the same, but you can absolutely tell the difference in a material analysis, you might even be able to smell the difference.

[p0isin]

I understand mec, and I will be doing that now that I switched to rotella. But if it's frozen cc, oem pcv, or vta I'm sticking with vta for the winter months only.

[cdn_b7a4]

You guys think the lines could still freeze up if I by-passed the CC and just vented directly to the down-pipe? That would definitely be the easiest fix if it will work.

I'm still surprised that it froze up on me with the drain open. I'm guessing that there must have still been some moisture in the lines when I shut the car off that ran down in to the CC and froze up before it could drain out. Or maybe the drain tube froze just below the CC and backed everything up.

[papadelogan]

I am thinking about getting an aftermarket coolant overflow tank and setting it up below my 034 CC so 1) it can drain safely and 2) is a quick visual check. I'm thinking of swapping to a 1/4" NPT to 3/8" barb fitting in the bottom of the CC so that I can use 3/8" hose to help avoid that part freezing on me. I pulled the can off the car and brought it inside the office here at work to thaw; poured it out and would guess it was 90% full. It was CRAZY COLD but to be safe I did a full oil change when i got home yesterday and she ran like a champ with no issues this morning.

[mec]

If you guys want to avoid the white clouds of smoke, just fix the 034CC. Go buy some silicon 1/8 or 1/4 tubing, run it down the top port have it make a 180* turn at the bottom and shoot back up, that way it won't get clogged and there can still be ventilation when the bottom half of the can is full.

[thenofjboy]

^ I'm going to try this. My CC is frozen and white smoke galore! I'm going to disconnect the hose(s) that connect to the CC so I can get home. I have a new VC gasket but unfortunately its at my rents and I wont be able to change it until tomorrow.

I read above that if I saw white smoke, my VC gasket it shot. Is that true?

[mec]

^ I'm going to try this. My CC is frozen and white smoke galore! I'm going to disconnect the hose(s) that connect to the CC so I can get home. I have a new VC gasket but unfortunately its at my rents and I wont be able to change it until tomorrow.

I read above that if I saw white smoke, my VC gasket it shot. Is that true?

probably not. Check it. if you have oil around the VC, or in the spark plug holes then yep its shot. PRobably not though, its pretty tough rubber.

[thenofjboy]

^ thanks for the quick reply mec. I dont have any allen wrenches on me to take out the drain plug, so I was going to disconnect one or both of the hoses on the CC. Do you think it matters if I take disconnect both, or should I just do one? If its just one, I assume it would be the one that attaches to the top?


TIA

[mec]

^ thanks for the quick reply mec. I dont have any allen wrenches on me to take out the drain plug, so I was going to disconnect one or both of the hoses on the CC. Do you think it matters if I take disconnect both, or should I just do one? If its just one, I assume it would be the one that attaches to the top?


TIA

To drain it? You have to disconnect the side hose, and remove the bracket so you can tilt it. rinse it with some hot water or alcohol to clear the gunk out of the drain valve for next time

[thenofjboy]

^ I dont have the drain valve. I got the 034 CC before they came out with the drain valve. I cant remove the drain plug because I dont have any allen wrenches on me. I was going to disconnect one or both hoses that connect to the CC so I could drive home and not have white smoke etc. I know others said they just drain it to the ground and thats what I'm going to do for now.
I was just asking if it mattered which hose(s) I disconnected from the CC for the time being.

[mec]

^ I dont have the drain valve. I got the 034 CC before they came out with the drain valve. I cant remove the drain plug because I dont have any allen wrenches on me. I was going to disconnect one or both hoses that connect to the CC so I could drive home and not have white smoke etc. I know others said they just drain it to the ground and thats what I'm going to do for now.
I was just asking if it mattered which hose(s) I disconnected from the CC for the time being.

you can disconnect both or just the side one.

[thenofjboy]

thanks man. I borrowed some tools at work and now my catch can is sitting on the floor next to me. This woman asked me if i smelled something funny....shes said it smells like gas or a car engine lol. Shes old and into cars so I showed her my CC and she lol. She thought there was a fire ha...



anyone have any comments on that heated CC mod? that looks pretty simple and straight forward. I think I'm going to give it a try.

[mec]

take some 1" heater hose, cut the upper coolant pipe, splice in the hose, wrap it arounbd your catch can a few times, then return it to the hard coolant pipe

[JARCESE]

Any body throw any codes from a frozen catch can? I empty my 034 every couple months and there is usually nothing in it, but it froze over the weekend and it threw some codes and lost some oil. Added some oil and the crap from the can was on the dip stick. Car runs fine and I cleared the codes. I haven't driven it yet since I cleared the codes but I'm nervous that I broke something. There's no visible oil, but I'm sure the intercooler piping is full.

Here are the codes that came up:

000313 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2
P0139 - 004 - Response too Slow - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 133446 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1887 /min
Load: 9.4 %
Speed: 27.0 km/h
Temperature: 56.0∞C
Temperature: -2.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1020.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V

004372 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S2
P1114 - 008 - Internal Resistance too High - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 133446 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1887 /min
Load: 9.4 %
Speed: 27.0 km/h
Temperature: 56.0∞C
Temperature: -2.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1020.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 008 - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 133480 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1197 /min
Load: 32.5 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 3.0∞C
Temperature: 3.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.605 V

000771 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 008 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 133480 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 850 /min
Load: 31.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 12.0∞C
Temperature: 2.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V

000017 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 - 004 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 133581 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1552 /min
Load: 51.4 %
Speed: 22.0 km/h
Temperature: 0.0∞C
Temperature: -7.0∞C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.732 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

[STA4]

Just wanted to share my story to help the community. It's been pretty cold lately (Polar Vortex...haha) and yesterday morning soon after I left the house I was sitting at a light when:

- Idle started going rough
- Smoke came from engine bay
- Smoke out of exhaust
- Oil buildup near oil cap
- Oil spray near front passenger side of engine (onto intake pipe, etc.)

I shut the car down immediately and had it flat bedded to a shop.

I did some reading and found this thread along with this one: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/511177-White-exhaust-smoke

I have a Black Forest Industry oil catch can (BFI OCC), but I had just emptied it last week. I suspected that one of the lines to the OCC may have been building up ice during the cold weather (there's a dip in the line forming a U) and gotten clogged causing a build up of pressure. I told the guys at the shop to try firing it up this morning after the car had sat in their heated garage over night and sure enough the engine is no longer burning oil. It seems that my suspicion was correct.

I'm going to try see if I can raise the line from the oil separator so that it empties into the OCC. I may also flush it with alcohol during our next polar vortex. Not sure where the oil squirted out, but will monitor that closely for the next while.