Air Suspension Problem Help ASAP!

[AudiAddict16]

Here's the deal. The guy said that it was having trouble raising up and one day it just didnt raise anymore. Its a 2003 Allroad and I replaced the J403 relay and the 40amp fuse next to it tested out fine. The motor is still not running and the car will not raise up. All the level lights on the dash are blinking. From what I have read if those two things check out the it is more than likely the compressor. I tried scanning the car and came up with only engine codes (did not use Vag-com).

[bagpipingandy]

Hi,

a Fault scan with Vag-com will help & tell us the code, is the suspension error light On in the dashboard?

regards

Andy

[julex]

You need audi specific scanner software, aka VCDS for rosstech.com (known as VAG-COM). Once you get it, you need to scan specific module "Level suspension" or whatever it is called in there. This will read error codes from actual leveling module. Chances are though that your pump is completely burned out but to confirm, just hookup voltmeter to two thick wires going to it and if you read 12v, then it is not current supply issue but the pump.

[2.5TDi_AR]

Is the system deflating? Are the wheels in the arches? You should borrow a jack or 2 and jack it up to a reasonable height.

[-C5-]

time to switch to coilovers? always an option if you dont want to throw thousands at the air sys

[ArcticDRIVER]

time to switch to coilovers? always an option if you dont want to throw thousands at the air sys

Thats throwing in the towel awfully fast...before the OP castrates his buddy's allroad, how about looking for a used compressor? Or maybe a ring rebuild for the original compressor?

Nice overview: http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_243.pdf

[zacknhs]

Let me know if you end up needing a pump. I just put st's on last week but I have been too lazy to pull the pump as I was waiting for the springs to settle. I also have a new piston ring for the pump on my coffee table from when I was going to try to save the system. I got it from Andy. On eBay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-Allroad-Air-Suspension-Compressor-Repair-Kit/150965577251?ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1&ih=005&category=174088&cmd=ViewItem

[bagpipingandy]

I got it from Andy. On eBay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-Allroad-Air-Suspension-Compressor-Repair-Kit/150965577251?ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1&ih=005&category=174088&cmd=ViewItem

That would be me [:d]

I would like qualify if the OP's pump is running 1st and if not why not?? it may be something stopping the pump running rather than the pump itself

regards

And

[awdjunkies]

LOL Andy, you're everywhere ... [up]

[bagpipingandy]

LOL Andy, you're everywhere ... [up]

Are you following me !! [;)] [:)]

[AudiAddict16]

thank you for the help guys!

[dcaron9999]

Got this really good tip from one of the members, which I am going to go through soon, as my air pump is working overtime in position level #2.

"Suggest to pump the airbag system up, then spray each bag with water / dish soap mix and watch for bubbles to identify air leak(s). If no bags are leaking then move on to spray connectors. Typically the bags start leaking near the lower base and is the most common type of Allroad air ride system pressure failure."

[dcaron9999]

Has anybody tried these -- http://www.airbagit.com/product-p/bag-ocs-audi-x12.htm

[dcaron9999]

Im having similar suspension issue on a 2005 allroad with 67,000 Miles. I just bought the allroad in early November 2012, and problem has only begin to be noticeable lately during colder weather (December and January) here in Quebec, Canada.

I hear my airpump motor running a little too often, when Im driving and holding steady at level-2 or level-1. Lately, the air pump has started to work a little longer than usual to change from one level to the next. I tried to detect leaks with soapy water on two occasions, with wheels off the car, and weight of the car resting on the lower ball bearing. I do not see any signs of bubbles at any of the four levels on air springs, and air fittings.

Once in a while, I inflate the air springs to level-4, and thouroughly clean the air bags with water and a brush, to get all grit and dirt off, especially at the bottom of the bag, where strut enter the bag. I then dry it off, and lubricate the metal strut with a bio-degradable lubricant/rust inhibitor.

I dont have access to a VCDS VAG-COM yet to pull codes, but I have no suspension warning lights on my cluster at this point. Nevertheless, it seems as if my pump is on its way out due to longer delays to reach an upper level. The pump is not particularly noisy though. I cant help wondering if I have a slow leak in one of my bags, or elsewhere under the car. The problem seems worse when Im driving and flexing the air springs. If I park the car overnight, I do notice some slight droop on the driver side/front (1/4-1/2"), so I do suspect a slow leak there, but one that I cannot detect with the soapy water test.

[awdjunkies]

Dont mean to hijack this thread, but having similar suspension issue on a 2005 allroad with 67,000 Miles. I just bought the allroad in early November 2012, and problem has become worse lately during colder weather (December and January) here in Quebec, Canada.

I hear my airpump motor running a little too often, when Im driving and holding steady at level-2 or level-1. Lately, the air pump has started to work a little longer than usual to change from one level to the next. I tried to detect leaks with soapy water on two occasions, with wheels off the car, and weight of the car resting on the lower ball bearing. I do not see any signs of bubbles at any of the four levels on air springs, and air fittings.

Once in a while, I inflate the air springs to level-4, and thouroughly clean the air bags with water and a brush, to get all grit and dirt off, especially at the bottom of the bag, where strut enter the bag. I then dry it off, and lubricate the metal strut with a bio-degradable lubricant/rust inhibitor.

I dont have access to a VCDS VAG-COM yet to pull codes, but I have no suspension warning lights on my cluster at this point. Nevertheless, it seems as if my pump is on its way out due to longer delays to reach an upper level. The pump is not particularly noisy though. I cant help wondering if I have a slow leak in one of my bags, or elsewhere under the car. The problem seems worse when Im driving and flexing the air springs. If I park the car overnight, I do notice some slight droop on the driver side/front (1/4-1/2"), so I do suspect a slow leak there, but one that I cannot detect with the soapy water test.

Sounds like you need BP Andy's magic potion!!! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-Allroad-Air-Suspension-Compressor-Repair-Kit-/160965941198?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item257a5157ce [up]

Also you should replace your O-rings, and the rubber strut mount on that Bag, to see if it cures the problem.. On mine it didn't as I had to replace the entire bag.

[bagpipingandy]

To find leaks: jack car up, leave wheel on, spray plenty soapy water on the rubber, rub it around the back of the airbag too with your hands, the lower half is where any leak may be, put car back on the ground make sure it is at level 1 then wait 5 mins, it will leak at level 1 not higher, check for bubbles & around the back to, if the car is only sinking very small amounts it may be a very small leak and hard to trace, but still a leak, I agree with AWD Junkies too, he is my top promoter!! a refurb kit will renew that compressor, although it is not magic, its just engineering genius!! ;) Hee hee

regards

Andy

[awdjunkies]

To find leaks: jack car up, leave wheel on, spray plenty soapy water on the rubber, rub it around the back of the airbag too with your hands, the lower half is where any leak may be, put car back on the ground make sure it is at level 1 then wait 5 mins, it will leak at level 1 not higher, check for bubbles & around the back to, if the car is only sinking very small amounts it may be a very small leak and hard to trace, but still a leak, I agree with AWD Junkies too, he is my top promoter!! a refurb kit will renew that compressor, although it is not magic, its just engineering genius!! ;) Hee hee

regards

Andy

LOL Whatever it takes to help, Buddy [up]

[dcaron9999]

To find leaks: jack car up, leave wheel on, spray plenty soapy water on the rubber, rub it around the back of the airbag too with your hands, the lower half is where any leak may be, put car back on the ground make sure it is at level 1 then wait 5 mins, it will leak at level 1 not higher, check for bubbles & around the back to, if the car is only sinking very small amounts it may be a very small leak and hard to trace, but still a leak.
I did the soap test a couple of times, with wheels off, but weight of the car on the suspension. I tried levels-1-2-3-4, and paid attention, but did not see any bubbles anywhere.

YEsteday evening, I put the car at level-4, and in jack mode and left it overnight. Measured the four corners this morning, and all distances are different by 1/8" to 1/2" from top of rim, to edge of fender. Tonight, I will try that again, but measure from the start of the routine, as perhaps the levels are slightly off from the get-go. If that is the case, then maybe I need a VAG-COM suspension level sensor parameter adjustment for the four sensors. I clean and lubricate these sensors regularly, about once a month during the winter.


, I agree with AWD Junkies too, he is my top promoter!! a refurb kit will renew that compressor, although it is not magic, its just engineering genius!! ;) Hee hee
Will probably place an order for your refurb kit soon, but hope not to get nailed with custom fees to Canada.

Thanks for your help!

[dcaron9999]

Just checked wheel clearance at Levels 1,2,3 in "jack" mode. My left front (driver side) is lower from the get go at all three levels, by about 5 to 6 millimeters. Clearance is different by 1-2 Millimeters on all four wheels at level-2, but 9 mm on Front driver corner. Clearance is identical on three wheels (except driver front) at level-1 and level-3.

There are no immediate signs or sounds of a leak. I have no suspension warning lights either. I do not have access to a VCDS tool yet. I have a slow leak drop of 5 mm in 3 hours on Front driver corner, and 2 mm on front passenger corner. The problem is exacerbated when driving and load is placed on the bags (pump keeps turning on).

#1) How can I tell if an Audi Front Air spring repair kit (Audi p/n 4Z7 698 507, consisting of upper and lower o-rings) will fix the leak?
#2) Perhaps I also need to fix or replace the front driver sensor.
#3) Perhaps I need a VAG-COM level reset.
#4) Perhaps I need a set of new front bags.

[bagpipingandy]

Just checked wheel clearance at Levels 1,2,3 in "jack" mode. My left front (driver side) is lower from the get go at all three levels, by about 5 to 6 millimeters. Clearance is different by 1-2 Millimeters on all four wheels at level-2, but 9 mm on Front driver corner. Clearance is identical on three wheels (except driver front) at level-1 and level-3.

There are no immediate signs or sounds of a leak. I have no suspension warning lights either. I do not have access to a VCDS tool yet. I have a slow leak drop of 5 mm in 3 hours on Front driver corner, and 2 mm on front passenger corner. The problem is exacerbated when driving and load is placed on the bags (pump keeps turning on).

#1) How can I tell if an Audi Front Air spring repair kit (Audi p/n 4Z7 698 507, consisting of upper and lower o-rings) will fix the leak?
#2) Perhaps I also need to fix or replace the front driver sensor.
#3) Perhaps I need a VAG-COM level reset.
#4) Perhaps I need a set of new front bags.

honestly i wouldn't worry too much unless the leak becomes more apparent, if when parked at level 1 it sinks to bump stops overnight this is a bad leak. Its too hard to say if the o-ring kit will fix a leak unless you can get bubbles from lower or top of shock. i would recommend not to buy anything unless you get bubbles, a leak will show bubbles, also try keeping the wheel on the car as just putting the cars weight on it by jack or other method doesn't replicate exactly the conditions of the car sitting on its wheels, remember it is not high pressure causing the leak it is the air bag folding around the curve opening any minute cracks in the rubber.

measure the heights parked at level 2, not in jack mode, (you would be sitting in the car to activate jack mode then you get out so then technically the car is not level), let the car settle with no one in it, the height from wheel centre to top of wheel arch should be 402mm at all corners, +-5mm is the spec dont worry too much about exactness i dont think mine is that close!! but if much further out of those dimensions you could calibrate it using VCDS.

regards

Andy

[dcaron9999]

Thanks for the great tips Andy!

Since I have no VCDS, maybe I can try to calibrate using the "ghetto" method of sliding the Front driver clamp down the suspension arm by the same "delta" distance to compensate.

[dcaron9999]

Just slimed my two front air springs tonight on my 2005 allroad with 68,000 Miles. Figured I give this a shot, and buy new springs if it fails.

I had a slow leak in the driver front air shock. It would take a few hours to droop, but leak was more pronounced while driving, as I could hear my pump working every few minutes.


After this fix, my allroad feal great - I even lost the floaty boat fealing I was getting in level-1. Air pump used to start every few minutes while driving in level-1 or level-2. It now starts only when I change to a higher level, like it should.

Here the procedure I used, which could be useful for anyone thinking about doing this for FRONTS BAGS ONLY (rears have a recirculation loop and clogging is likely):

#1 I recommend buying at least 32 ounces of green Slime. The Slime comes with a short piece of vinyl tube under the label that, as others have said, will be too large of a diameter to fit in the hole in the air spring. You need to find about a foot of smaller diameter tube that fit into the Slime's tube, to reduce the diameter at the end to fit into the airbag's hole. I used the hard plactic tube from a spray bottle such as this (http://www.pangeareptile.com/store/images/detailed/0/product_detailed_image_29945_102.jpg). This plastic tube fits perfectly in the opening of the air spring. I used another intermediate flexible tube between the one supplied with the Slime, and the one from the spray bottle. I secured the three tubes together with a few tie wraps to prevent leaks.

#2 You do not need to remove the wheel. Drop car to Level-1, and put it in Jack Mode. Initially, you will be pressurizing the bags by going to higher levels, preventing any residual slime from leaving the bags, and contaminating the rest of the system.

#2 Use a hydraulic jack, and jack up the car until the wheel nearly rises off the ground. This reduces the air pressure in the air spring. You will noticed that this gives you lots of space to reach the air line above the tire.

#3 Use 10mm open-ended wrench to remove the airline that goes into the aluminum cap at the top of the bag. As a safety precaution, when unscrewing your 10mm air fittings, do so very slowly, half a turn at a time, to allow air to slowly escape. Do this until you hear no more pressure, and then remove the air fitting screw.

#4 Move the air line out of the way. Make sure you have removed the seal inside the cap of the Slime bottle. Insert the tube attached to the slime bottle, into the air spring's air hole. I had to hold the tube's end against the air bag's hole while squeezing the bottle. Squirt as much as you can into the opening. You will probably need both hands, as the small diameter of the tube creates resistance. This is where the 32 ounce bottle comes in handy, as it is large enough to wrap both of your hands around it to increase pressure forcing the sline into the bag, and offer you a better "pouring" angle. Tokk me 5-10 minutes to get about 8-10 ounces into the air spring. I cleaned up the opening with a few Q-tips.


#5 Massage the rubber around the bottom of the bag, to spread the slime as evenly as possible.

#6 After you button everything up, slowly lower your jack VERY CAREFULLY, and do not let the whole weight of the car rest on the empty bag. Go back inside your car, and remove jack mode, to allow your bag to be re-pressurized. Once you hear no more air flowing into your bag, you can now slowly lower and remove your jack. Once your suspension level has stabilized, you may process to next level (level-2 or more).

#7 Go for a test drive, at this level (2 or more). Go over a bumpy road, and drive in the city, where you can brake often, and put pressure on your bags.

#8 Drive for a couple of miles, while moving to next levels (3,4). Drive for another couple of miles, and proceed to lower levels.

#9 Enjoy your new suspension dynamics, and set money aside for new bags eventually ...

[awdjunkies]

^ You know I always heard that you shouldn't use "slime" or any of that stuff to seal a leaky bag but if it works for you momentarily then good for you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clzBUaUL2H4&list=FLMR0eK69CmBi2-_Z4T-e3hQ&index=5

[dcaron9999]

I knew about this video and watched it before. Not much point to it ... other than "do not use slime - I had to clean off the struts using a wire brush".
So I guess this means ll spend a bit of extra time cleaning off the struts when I eventually replace the air springs.
Some owners have run with slimed bags for over a year, and not had a problem.

[awdjunkies]

I'd rather replace a bad bag, than place all my marbles on slime. Just Me I guess..

[Sparkstack]

I knew about this video and watched it before. Not much point to it ... other than "do not use slime - I had to clean off the struts using a wire brush".

When I listened to the video, I heard the guy suggest not using slime, as it gums up the bottom of the strut and allows air past the bottom o-ring. I guess you're skipping over that part.

As band-aids go, this one seems pointless. A quick fix that causes twice as much work to rectify when it fails again. Not if, but when.

[awdjunkies]

When I listened to the video, I heard the guy suggest not using slime, as it gums up the bottom of the strut and allows air past the bottom o-ring. I guess you're skipping over that part.

As band-aids go, this one seems pointless. A quick fix that causes twice as much work to rectify when it fails again. Not if, but when.

[up] That's what I thought too, as I am not to keen on replacing parts over and over again. Heck it's not just replacing for the sake of money, but it's a PITA removing suspension bags...

[dcaron9999]

I stumbled across a pair of brand new OEM bags for $400, and snatched them up. Will be replacing my "slimy" ones soon.

[awdjunkies]

I stumbled across a pair of brand new OEM bags for $400, and snatched them up. Will be replacing my "slimy" ones soon.

Even Better news... [up]