Steering Issues - 2013

[Bclippard]

I wanted to see if anyone was having issues of what I can best describe as the steering wheel feels like it lets go for a few seconds when driving on the highway? The car then feels like it is drifting in the lane. I do notice while traveling at lower speed but it is not so pronounced.

I tried doing searches and could find anything on this potential issue.

Thanks,
Brian

[htoudiee]

Not here. But interesting.

[PaperishPlastic]

I wanted to see if anyone was having issues of what I can best describe as the steering wheel feels like it lets go for a few seconds when driving on the highway? The car then feels like it is drifting in the lane. I do notice while traveling at lower speed but it is not so pronounced.

I tried doing searches and could find anything on this potential issue.

Thanks,
Brian

yes this is a common issue with the B8.5 S4's and S5's. The Eurocode Alu Kreuz will fix this issue.

[BzzzBom]

I had this issue before installing the Alu Kreuz. Not only did the AK fix this issue but dramatically improved the steering feel especially on the freeway. IMO, the car should have come like this from the factory -- The AK is a must have mod.

[WirelessEngy]

I had this issue before installing the Alu Kreuz. Not only did the AK fix this issue but dramatically improved the steering feel especially on the freeway. IMO, the car should have come like this from the factory -- The AK is a must have mod.

Just curious..
Do you have just the AK installed, and not the sway bars?

[thedollardoctor]

I wanted to see if anyone was having issues of what I can best describe as the steering wheel feels like it lets go for a few seconds when driving on the highway? The car then feels like it is drifting in the lane. I do notice while traveling at lower speed but it is not so pronounced.

I tried doing searches and could find anything on this potential issue.

Thanks,
Brian

Yep, I have this EXACT same issue! Feels EXACTLY as you described. Like it is fine and then "slips" a bit. Haven't ever noticed it around town, but on longer highway drives at speed, it's obnoxious. Once you notice it, it's completely unnerving! Called my dealership twice about it and did not receive a single call back. Already in the Alu Kreuz group buy as many have stated this fixes the issue (and besides I had planned to stiffen the entire ride a bit with this and sways and end links anyway).

Let me know if you have any luck with the dealership on this issue. Apparently there was a steering recall recently as well, may be for this issue? The thread is around here somewhere.......

[BzzzBom]

Just curious..
Do you have just the AK installed, and not the sway bars?
I have the USS sways which were installed several months ago. I still had the problem until the AK was installed.

[peppeS4]

There is a TSB for 2013 S4's that I just had done at my 5K service. Something with the steering wheel module I believe. Not sure if this recall has anything to do with the problem you are describing.

[Bclippard]

I have an appointment with the dealership next week. I will let you guys know what I find out or if the TSB fixes the issue.
If they don't fix it then I may go the AK route if it actually fixes that issue.

Thanks for the information.

[Wilbur]

Yep, I have this EXACT same issue! Feels EXACTLY as you described. Like it is fine and then "slips" a bit. Haven't ever noticed it around town, but on longer highway drives at speed, it's obnoxious. Once you notice it, it's completely unnerving! Called my dealership twice about it and did not receive a single call back. Already in the Alu Kreuz group buy as many have stated this fixes the issue (and besides I had planned to stiffen the entire ride a bit with this and sways and end links anyway).

Let me know if you have any luck with the dealership on this issue. Apparently there was a steering recall recently as well, may be for this issue? The thread is around here somewhere.......

Just looked at that AK thing. How the heck would that solve the problem?

[Patrick Bateman]

I have this said issue.... I think dollar doc has it right with the word "slip", and i feel the issue is in the elec steering. I do have uss sways/end links, and also the AK already fitted.
My example/description is this.... When driving say on a slight curve,and wheel is held in the same spot, it feels as if the steering forgets to hold its position very slightly,and the wheel
feels in my hand as if the steering is lost for a split second. Im in for my 5k next week, and the tsb software flash will be performed. I will report back.

It almost feels like one of our 3/4 ton work trucks (GM), with a bad half shaft U joint, but the cars new...no wear... gotta be in the electronics. Angle sensor? i dunno.

PB.

[Seinsmeld13]

My S is three weeks new. I don't have this issue and love the electric steering. I'm coming from a 2010 S4 which had steering shudder that was a constant complaint with the Audi service department. Never corrected. .

[Canvasoso]

My 2013 had the TSB done at delivery. I have never experienced this issue. I dont see how the AK can help with this either. The AK 'may' help on very high stressed extreme cornering with chasis flex under high loads that go well beyond the stock brace treshold.

[thedollardoctor]

Just looked at that AK thing. How the heck would that solve the problem?

Yeah, I have to say in all honesty, I don't really see HOW the AK can fix something that feels like a strictly electronic steering issue. I ordered the AK through group buy because I am looking for ANY way to reduce body roll and stiffen the chassis (sways and end links also on the way), not solely in hopes of fixing the steering issues.

I'll be interested in hearing back from the OP and others if the TSB fixes this issue. As I said, I placed two separate calls to my dealership service manager with no response. May have to give it another shot.

[Info@EuroCode]

Our Alu Kreuz is a godsend in my opinion. When I installed it on our 2013 S5, I did not tell my wife...her first reaction was "how did you fix the steering? The car is not floaty anymore".

The floatiness she describes is how the car would all of a sudden feel like it swerved in the lane for no apparent reason. It was most noticeable when there was a chassis load change "like deceleration or acceleration".

[thedollardoctor]

Interested to see if that is the case. Though we may be describing different issues. Seeing as how the OP and myself and others on this thread are driving B8.5 S4s and you are referencing an S5 issue. We will see I guess.

Like I said, I PUMPED to get the AK!!! Just not convinced at this point it is the solution to this seemingly electric steering "slippage". I can see how it could help a "drifting road feel" by stiffening the chassis up, but this issue is more of a "slip" where the steering feels strong and secure at highway speeds, then out of no where, it just "slips" a slight bit then catches again, almost like the difference in feeling of the steering wheel at slow speeds (where its loose and easy to turn) vs. high speeds (where it tightens up more). It's really freaky and strange and unnerving.

[MrFunk]

I am a fan of the Alu K. But I don't think this is the solution to what sounds like a mechanical issue. There is a TSB for this issue -
I'd recommend all of you with B8.5's to get it adressed with the dealership. This is not an issue of improving steering response and floaty feel - this seems to be an issue with the mechanics of the steeing. I'm sure the TSB is not to improve the sub-frame mount...

I'm willing to bet there are people with the B8.5 and Alu K installed still having this issue. The Alu is not the solution...


Edit: Bateman has this issue even though he's got full Eurocode set up with Alu and sways and links...

[Wilbur]

Our Alu Kreuz is a godsend in my opinion. When I installed it on our 2013 S5, I did not tell my wife...her first reaction was "how did you fix the steering? The car is not floaty anymore".

The floatiness she describes is how the car would all of a sudden feel like it swerved in the lane for no apparent reason. It was most noticeable when there was a chassis load change "like deceleration or acceleration".


Interested to see if that is the case. Though we may be describing different issues. Seeing as how the OP and myself and others on this thread are driving B8.5 S4s and you are referencing an S5 issue. We will see I guess.

Like I said, I PUMPED to get the AK!!! Just not convinced at this point it is the solution to this seemingly electric steering "slippage". I can see how it could help a "drifting road feel" by stiffening the chassis up, but this issue is more of a "slip" where the steering feels strong and secure at highway speeds, then out of no where, it just "slips" a slight bit then catches again, almost like the difference in feeling of the steering wheel at slow speeds (where its loose and easy to turn) vs. high speeds (where it tightens up more). It's really freaky and strange and unnerving.

Is the chassis really that soft/flexible?

[clericdc]

i too have this issue. also agree that AK will probably stiffen up the overall 'floaty' feel but not what OP is talking about.
I thought it was some weird alignment issue at first where maybe toe was set awkwardly to where it would feel like its going straight and then all of the sudden switch directions ever so slightly. more noticeable if you keep a less intense grip on the wheel.

if someone can post about their before/after experience after the steering module TSB would help us all out! I asked my dealer about this tsb and they said it would not affect this but then again my dealer nearby sucks.

[MrFunk]

^^ PB is going in for his 5k and having the TSB performed. I'm sure he'd be happy to report back :) Right PB?!?!? I'll volunteer you!

[Bomiz]

Going in today for the steering update. I'll let you know if I feel a difference

[agershon]

I only get this steering weirdness on the freeway going straight. Someone in a previous thread described it as "tram lining". To me it feels like the wheels are in a rut, and then they pop out into another rut. Does that make any sense?

[thedollardoctor]

I only get this steering weirdness on the freeway going straight. Someone in a previous thread described it as "tram lining". To me it feels like the wheels are in a rut, and then they pop out into another rut. Does that make any sense?

Yep! EXACTLY the same time (highway going straight) and way it feels (tire rut in highway). EXACTLY

[thedollardoctor]

Is the chassis really that soft/flexible?

To me it is. For a $60k performance car, it has a lot of body roll and feels a bit squishy to me overall..... and that is in comparison to my 2011 G37 hard top (which shouldn't be nearly as stiff without the structural rigidity of a complete frame).

Once I installed sways on my G, it was like a different car altogether. SO MUCH more enjoyable to drive and more confident in turns with much less body roll. Hoping for same effect on the S or better

[dygital]

I have that feeling as well, even during city driving. I just got off the phone with Audi and there's a steering update as well as a low beam update. Going to send my car in next week and hope it fixes things.

[jdwk]

I put 1000 miles on my car through Europe and other than the steering just feeling uncommunicative, it felt fine. It never drifted or swerved on me. I picked my car up on Sept 27th, so maybe this problem had already been addressed.

[Canvasoso]

Is the chassis really that soft/flexible?

Exactly!. It is not. As I said before, the AK can only be beneficial at very high loads that 95% of the people here would never get to, unless they track their car at its limits.

[A4 Joe]

I only get this steering weirdness on the freeway going straight. Someone in a previous thread described it as "tram lining". To me it feels like the wheels are in a rut, and then they pop out into another rut. Does that make any sense?



I have this exact sensation on my 2012 S4.

[kooltechie]

It seems like many folks with B8.5 S4/S5 (including myself) have this weird steering behavior.
I started a thread in regards to the issue a while back (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/511184-Electromechanical-Steering-Review-2013-S5) and it seems we need to escalate this to Audi and have them involved?

If there's anyone here who's familiar with organizing a formal request/class act to a manufacturer, would you please help?

Whether Audi knew about this as they switched to the new electromechanical steering or not, it's very disappointing.
Had I known about this issue prior to my purchase, my decision would've been different. [:(]

[Doc Brown]

I wanted to see if anyone was having issues of what I can best describe as the steering wheel feels like it lets go for a few seconds when driving on the highway? The car then feels like it is drifting in the lane. I do notice while traveling at lower speed but it is not so pronounced.

I tried doing searches and could find anything on this potential issue.

Thanks,
Brian

Mine is three weeks old and at nearly 1000 miles and I have not experienced anything like this. Fair amount of highway driving, too.

[Patrick Bateman]

Exactly!. It is not. As I said before, the AK can only be beneficial at very high loads that 95% of the people here would never get to, unless they track their car at its limits.

Can... Im not understanding your statement above. The AK make driving this car better in every instance...wheather its low mph, to high speed cornering. The car simply tracks better all over the board in every type of driving scenario.

Dollar Dr: Dude, you've hit this thread on the head time and time again!

PB.
Mr.F : Sure, im in. i report to you first ,of coarse!

Happy Thanksgiving to all and your families !

[thedollardoctor]

Going in today for the steering update. I'll let you know if I feel a difference

Hey Bomiz, any updates on this issue? Did you get your car in for the service?

Oh, and my apologies to Patrick for hitting this thread on the head AGAIN! I guess I'm just tired of my $60k car having a really annoying steering issue and am concerned about finding a way to fix it. I'll try to be less enthusiastic about it in the future, my bad

[Wilbur]

Exactly!. It is not. As I said before, the AK can only be beneficial at very high loads that 95% of the people here would never get to, unless they track their car at its limits.

Thats what I'm thinking. If this thing was that flexible door/frnder gaps would be opening and closing. If you parke with one wheel on a curb you wouldnt be able to open a door. I don't think so. Sway/roll bars are entirely different and have nothing to do with a flexing chassis.

[Wilbur]

To me it is. For a $60k performance car, it has a lot of body roll and feels a bit squishy to me overall..... and that is in comparison to my 2011 G37 hard top (which shouldn't be nearly as stiff without the structural rigidity of a complete frame).

Once I installed sways on my G, it was like a different car altogether. SO MUCH more enjoyable to drive and more confident in turns with much less body roll. Hoping for same effect on the S or better

Its a grand touring car not a full on sports car....thats what they do

[thedollardoctor]

Either way, not to be all technical, I would prefer if the "feel" of the car in the turns was more confident. As it is in stock form, I don't feel it gives the driver great confidence in and out of turns, just my opinion. In my experience, upgrading sways has greatly improved this, at least in other cars I've owned.

[BzzzBom]

Either way, not to be all technical, I would prefer if the "feel" of the car in the turns was more confident. As it is in stock form, I don't feel it gives the driver great confidence in and out of turns, just my opinion. In my experience, upgrading sways has greatly improved this, at least in other cars I've owned.
The USS sways / end links / Alu Kreuz dramatically changed all this - I actually hated the cornering feel before installing. I now love the feel. Although not cheap, it was the greatest bang for buck you can do for this car. This should be everyone's first mods!
just my $0.02

[dparm]

yes this is a common issue with the B8.5 S4's and S5's. The Eurocode Alu Kreuz will fix this issue.

I don't understand how that answers his question.

[thedollardoctor]

The USS sways / end links / Alu Kreuz dramatically changed all this - I actually hated the cornering feel before installing. I now love the feel. Although not cheap, it was the greatest bang for buck you can do for this car. This should be everyone's first mods!
just my $0.02

Appreciate the input! That is my hope as well. For my G that was how I felt, best bang for the buck for mod by far was the sways. Can't wait!

[bbhbba]

I had the steering module software update done to my '13 S4 2 weeks ago. I've never felt the issue described before nor after the steering module service.

[fezz93]

1000km on my 13 and have the same experience with driving on the freeway trying to hold it in a straight line.

[Bclippard]

Well took it to the dealership this morning and had the steering flashed and it seems that the steering issue is gone. I will have to see when I get more highway time to truly tell and most of my commute from the dealership was city which doesn't present the issue as much.

[fezz93]

I took my car in and the dealership and they said that there is no update to flash for steering. Anyone esle from canada try this?

[mattchat]

Mine goes in on Tuesday for First service and I mentioned it to them, they already new about it so I'll be getting it done.

[Bclippard]

Ask them to look this up this is the code on my service paper work

Perform 484k RVU Criteria 44 Power steering
Cause 48k4
48402599 update 48k4

Maybe that will help

[Patrick Bateman]

Mine went in yesterday for the tsb on the steering. I have had not alot of road time, but the car feels better to me so far. ill report back after some solid weekend driving.

PB.

[fezz93]

Is the steering not already an non issue due to th mods you have (Alukreuz/sways/links? ) olny asking bc I was going to get the same mods to improve the steering.

[thedollardoctor]

Is the steering not already an non issue due to th mods you have (Alukreuz/sways/links? ) olny asking bc I was going to get the same mods to improve the steering.

The steering issue seems to be an "electronic" issue and not related to the stiffness of the underbody or sways. Its like a slippage. I'm interested to hear of the people who have had this update done will report back that the issue is completely gone! If so, I will be at my dealership like Monday!

[mattchat]

I'm going to Glenmore Audi's satellite location near blackfoot. The guy there was at the main glenmore office and he was recomended to me by lots of folks in town, Chris Chapman. He stays on top of things so it doesn't surprise me that royal oak didn't know about it.


Ask them to look this up this is the code on my service paper work

Perform 484k RVU Criteria 44 Power steering
Cause 48k4
48402599 update 48k4

Maybe that will help

[jrrjbl]

As a new member evaluating a S$/% or TTRS, this thread is more than disconcerting. Bought a 2010 Subaru Outback and it was the first year using electric steering. Car had a mind of its own and would literally move 5-10" L or R on its own. Vague feeling and constant corrections needed. Subaru worked with a some of us to try and fix it. They literally took apart the subframes and suspension and rebuilt it three times. After a year, they called me and volunteered to buy it back. Loved their customer service, hated their engineering. Good luck with issue, maybe Audi can figure it out

[thedollardoctor]

As a new member evaluating a S$/% or TTRS, this thread is more than disconcerting. Bought a 2010 Subaru Outback and it was the first year using electric steering. Car had a mind of its own and would literally move 5-10" L or R on its own. Vague feeling and constant corrections needed. Subaru worked with a some of us to try and fix it. They literally took apart the subframes and suspension and rebuilt it three times. After a year, they called me and volunteered to buy it back. Loved their customer service, hated their engineering. Good luck with issue, maybe Audi can figure it out

Wow, that's crazy man! This issue isn't nearly as crazy as the one you're describing. It's more subtle than that and sometimes isn't noticeable at all or doesn't even happen. The only time I have personally noticed it is on long highway drives. I drive 15 min highway everyday and never notice it on that drive. When I drove over an hour to Columbus is when I first noticed it. Calling my dealer service manager today to see if I can get some more info on this.......

[Leor604]

The steering issue seems to be an "electronic" issue and not related to the stiffness of the underbody or sways. Its like a slippage. I'm interested to hear of the people who have had this update done will report back that the issue is completely gone! If so, I will be at my dealership like Monday!

It has to be an issue with the EPS as, if it was something related to the body stiffness, this would have been an issue starting in 2010. I don't recall a single report of this issue with the hydraulic PS.

Alu Kreuz and sways have NOTHING do do with straight ahead steering performance.

[Toecutter]

I have an appt. next Tuesday (for a dash rattle) and I'll have them see if my car has had the steering update. I'm not sure if I'm really feeling the steering play or if I've convinced myself that I am after reading about it here.

[hightechrdn]

As a new member evaluating a S$/% or TTRS, this thread is more than disconcerting. Bought a 2010 Subaru Outback and it was the first year using electric steering. Car had a mind of its own and would literally move 5-10" L or R on its own. Vague feeling and constant corrections needed. Subaru worked with a some of us to try and fix it. They literally took apart the subframes and suspension and rebuilt it three times. After a year, they called me and volunteered to buy it back. Loved their customer service, hated their engineering. Good luck with issue, maybe Audi can figure it out

Saw your reference to the TT-RS... I have a 2012 TT-RS and have never had this type of weird behavior in the steering nor have I seen any forum posts from other owners reporting anything like it. VAG has been doing electronic steering for quite some time across their product lines. MK6 GTI for example has electronic steering. There are a lot of GTI's sold and haven't read anything about a steering issue.

With the TT-RS, one can feel tram lining from time to time when the road is rutted, especially when coming to a stop or at low speeds. Tram lining is caused by the wide tires basically following the road surface. I had a 2012 Mustang GT with the widest factory tires fitted by Ford on the GT's. The Mustang would also tram line, so it isn't an issue unique to Audi's. It isn't a big deal though. Tram lining can we reduced/increased by switching tires to a different model in some cases.

At highway speeds the car is very stable, drives straight ahead with good on center feel. The steering assist is reduced once you go above a certain speed, so it weights up nicely. In a parking lot, there is a lot of assist, making it easy to maneuver.

I can't comment on the S4 models directly, but wanted you to know steering isn't a huge issue with Audi's across the board.

[fezz93]

The issue is not" tram lining" with the my 13 s4. I had wider tires on my last car, driving on the exact same roads and there was never an issue with "tram lining" before.

[jrrjbl]

Believe me I know tram lining. Drive an 11 GrandSport vette as a DD. Try 325/30/19 Goodyears. Know hydroplaning too. Built/maintained/drove a few race cars on the "twisties".

I have great sympathy for the owners who "can't replicate it" responses. We actually a developed a procedure to identify if you had the issue covering outside temp range, tire temp, speed bandwidth, amount of time necessary to replicate, and an informal means of knowing whether you were inflicted. Subaru actually started to tell dealers to use this methodology

I was under the impression the TTRS didn't have the EPS. Frankly, I am leaning this way but was thoroughly impressed by the S4. Will not go through another vague/wandering steering situation or even the potential of only happening on a small sample. That's what they said about the Outback. Actually got Subie to admit some pretty significant double digit impact but they were right there all the way with the customers.

[Bclippard]

Had a lot more highway driving today and I no longer experience the problem I think the software upgrade did the trick!

[thedollardoctor]

Had a lot more highway driving today and I no longer experience the problem I think the software upgrade did the trick!

Excellent! Got a message into my service department and will likely get my car in for this update next week. Too bad I have a 5hr drive to Nashville Monday and back on Wednesday! Would be nice to have gotten this fixed before the trip. Ugh.

[KitB8S4]

Ask them to look this up this is the code on my service paper work

Perform 484k RVU Criteria 44 Power steering
Cause 48k4
48402599 update 48k4

Maybe that will help

I dropped of my 2013 for the initial service this morning. Rep told me my Vin did not need the steering update. My steering seems fine, but i was wondering if you guys use a website to check your vin against the TSB? Looks like not all 2013's need this software update.

[Bclippard]

Well my issue popped back up about three days so it is another trip back to the service department on Wednesday. It was fine for a few days and slowly got worse and worse. I will let you all know what the dealer finds if anything.

[Doc Brown]

I wanted to see if anyone was having issues of what I can best describe as the steering wheel feels like it lets go for a few seconds when driving on the highway? The car then feels like it is drifting in the lane. I do notice while traveling at lower speed but it is not so pronounced.

I tried doing searches and could find anything on this potential issue.

Thanks,
Brian

I have not experienced this. I picked up mine about one month ago. Not the most feedback, but nothing like you describe.

[boss2k]

Guys

is this steering feel issues happening for dynamic mode too or only at comfort mode when the steering is bit loose. I am on the market for a new one and when i test drove in highway for 10 mins did not feel anything

coming from a BMW this would be a show stopper as the BMW steering feel is awesome and very tight

[Patrick Bateman]

didnt matter where the steering was set at... for mine at least. No issues since the reflash. ~ 1000 miles or so.

[stactum]

Picked up car 11/24 - experiencing exact same issue. Will be scheduling service appointment for steering fix and we'll see if it helps. As a backup plan I have Alu Kreuz and all USS goodness waiting to be installed.

[fezz93]

Guys

is this steering feel issues happening for dynamic mode too or only at comfort mode when the steering is bit loose. I am on the market for a new one and when i test drove in highway for 10 mins did not feel anything

coming from a BMW this would be a show stopper as the BMW steering feel is awesome and very tight

The f series steering is nothing great. The E was much better.

[boss2k]

The f series steering is nothing great. The E was much better.

Yeah I know , I have the E92

So is this issue for dynamic mode too on S4 or for all settings

[Bomiz]

Had the update a couple weeks ago and I think personally the steering feels better and probably fixed a few problems. BUT.... when I drive to school every morning on Wilshire(LA Area) my steering has a mind of its owning going all over the place, starting to really annoy me. Mom drove my car once... she was like "there's something wrong with your car" haha. Guess that's just how the new steering is?

[Patrick Bateman]

Sounds like a shitty rutted road to me. Nice color choice BTW!

PB.

[boss2k]

i would like some unbiased opinion from fellow S4 owners if this issue should discourage me from getting the car. I dont want to mod it as will lease the car.

pl advice

[Patrick Bateman]

i would like some unbiased opinion from fellow S4 owners if this issue should discourage me from getting the car. I dont want to mod it as will lease the car.

pl advice

Well, from what ive read here... The reflash has helped/fully cured nearly everyones issue. Great driver out of the box. Go drive a few for yourself. PLUS... the ladies down on Peachtree will be into your S4. BAM!

PB.

[Toecutter]

i would like some unbiased opinion from fellow S4 owners if this issue should discourage me from getting the car. I dont want to mod it as will lease the car.

pl advice

My COMPLETELY and UTTERLY BIASED opinion: the car is awesome as a total package and I would get it anyway.

Have you taken a test drive yet? Did you notice any steering issues?

[boss2k]

My COMPLETELY and UTTERLY BIASED opinion: the car is awesome as a total package and I would get it anyway.

Have you taken a test drive yet? Did you notice any steering issues?


Yes i drove a MT in dynamic mode for 10 mins on the freeway and didnt notice any issues. Overall i loved the car but this seems to a serious issue for anyone who loves to drive. Coming from a BMW i dont want to repent later if i buy that car because the steering handling in the BMW is one of the best and hence i raise this question.

[Bclippard]

The problem with this issue for me was that I did not have the issue the first 3k miles. Then all of a sudden I started to have the issue. When I took the car in and had the software flashed for the steering issue it was resolved for about 10 days then it slowly started to come back. It feels like a death trap on highways and side streets with any kind of crown or ruts are present. The problem is much less pronounced when it is a nice flat stretch or road. Hopefully when the car goes back next Wednesday they will be able to solve this.

[thedollardoctor]

UPDATE for me on this. Talked to my service rep and apprently my car has already had the reflash done before I picked it up, so evidently mine is one that also has shown this issue even AFTER the update! That being said, I have ONLY had this issue on one occasion. The entire 5 hour drive to and from Nashville on the highway I did not have this issue once. I have installed sways, end links, and the AK since I initially had the sterring issue, so maybe those items have helped a bit. I'll update again if I ever notice this issue again, but for now, I am having no issues at all.

[Bclippard]

Update:
Got a call from dealership they contacted Germany and are now swapping out the electric steering rack. Hopefully this fixes the issue.

[kooltechie]

Update:
Got a call from dealership they contacted Germany and are now swapping out the electric steering rack. Hopefully this fixes the issue.

please share w/ us more details (such as what parts were replaced and what their diagnosis was) when you get your car back.
[o_o]

[Bclippard]

please share w/ us more details (such as what parts were replaced and what their diagnosis was) when you get your car back.
[o_o]
I definitely will hopefully it will be done by next week. They have to order parts which won't arrive till Friday.

[Bclippard]

Got the car back from the dealer today. They replaced the electro-mechanical steering box, Coded the module and performed an alogment. The part number was 8k1-423-055-ac for the steering unit.

Only put 10 miles on the car so I will have to wait and see if this finally fixes the problem.

[kooltechie]

Got the car back from the dealer today. They replaced the electro-mechanical steering box, Coded the module and performed an alogment. The part number was 8k1-423-055-ac for the steering unit.

Only put 10 miles on the car so I will have to wait and see if this finally fixes the problem.

can't wait to hear if the issue's been fixed....hope it's fixed....crossing fingers [o_o]
TIA!!!

[Tomasz@Startup]

i would like some unbiased opinion from fellow S4 owners if this issue should discourage me from getting the car. I dont want to mod it as will lease the car.

pl advice

Yes, or at minimum focus on steering as you take the car for an extensive test drive.

Tomasz

[Tomasz@Startup]

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=AB0731083DDDC582!5891

[thedollardoctor]

Well, unfortunately, this issue has popped back up for me! I had not noticed it for over a month and had plenty of long highway drives where I would typically. But all of a sudden lately I have been having it happen A LOT! And it's SO annoying and unnerving. My dealer said I already had the update done, but may have to go back to them and have them reflash it. In concerned they may say nothing will be covered under warranty on this due to sways, end links, and AK installs. Will find out. Have NO idea if my shop is mod friendly..... guess I'll find that out as well.....

[Nuccadoc]

Well, unfortunately, this issue has popped back up for me! I had not noticed it for over a month and had plenty of long highway drives where I would typically. But all of a sudden lately I have been having it happen A LOT! And it's SO annoying and unnerving. My dealer said I already had the update done, but may have to go back to them and have them reflash it. In concerned they may say nothing will be covered under warranty on this due to sways, end links, and AK installs. Will find out. Have NO idea if my shop is mod friendly..... guess I'll find that out as well.....

noooooooooooooooo! I'm sure you are saying the same thing. Wonder why it felt much better for the past month, and then quit?!? Will be interesting to follow for sure and I will let you know if mine has it in a few months :) Maybe Audi will change something? Who knows! Keep us posted!

[Seinsmeld13]

I have now 5,000 on my 13 S4. It wasn't until recently I noticed while driving in dynamic at high speed the steering wheel seems to lose boost for a brief brief moment enough that you notice it. In comfort steering or auto this does not occur or at least I don't notice it. Otherwise the car is a vast improvement over my 2010. I will have this checked out at my first service in 3,000 km. No urgency to get it looked at. Anyway.......

[PaperishPlastic]

Well, unfortunately, this issue has popped back up for me! I had not noticed it for over a month and had plenty of long highway drives where I would typically. But all of a sudden lately I have been having it happen A LOT! And it's SO annoying and unnerving. My dealer said I already had the update done, but may have to go back to them and have them reflash it. In concerned they may say nothing will be covered under warranty on this due to sways, end links, and AK installs. Will find out. Have NO idea if my shop is mod friendly..... guess I'll find that out as well.....


Do you have an ALu Kreuz?

[thedollardoctor]

Do you have an ALu Kreuz?

Yes. I have USS sways, end links, and AK installed. Noticed issue before all of these things were installed. Didn't notice any issues for quite a while, then just recently I've been noticing it A LOT! It's very annoying and frustrating when it pops up and then it's impossible to ignore.

I am planning on talking to my service manager about this issue next week sometime and hopefully I can figure something out.

[JohnEnglish]

My parents have a 2013 Acura RDX with electro-mechanical steering like the S4 and I've noticed the same thing. They previously had a 2008 RDX with had traditional hydraulic steering. With the new electro-mechanical steering sometimes when taking an on ramp to the highway or a a long gradual bend in the road the steering has "dead" spots in it where it feels like it's become disconnected and you can wiggle the wheel and nothing happens. However, if you move the steering wheel out of that narrow range it turns the wheels again.

[Leor604]

Surely, the EPS still has a traditional rack and pinion setup and therefore an unbreakable mechanical link between the steering wheel and the front wheels (unlike throttle-by-wire where there is no mechanical link, just wires and electrons).

The only thing that has changed from previous years is the method in which the assist is provided. I'm not saying everyone is imagining this "disconnected" feeling, but it must be a change in the assist levels and not a true disconnection. It would be really scary to have a true steering-by-wire system that, if it failed, left you with no steering at all. Despite the inconsistencies and disconnected feeling I am sure that, in an emergency, if you cranked the wheel one way or the other, the car would respond as expected.

This push for miniscule increases in fuel economy is, IMO, making our cars worse. Tried and true technologies are being thrown out in favor of technologies that are obviously not ready for primetime. In its current form, the EPS is obviously as step backwards from hydraulic assist, yet we have no choice and are paying full ticket to be beta testers.

[kooltechie]

Surely, the EPS still has a traditional rack and pinion setup and therefore an unbreakable mechanical link between the steering wheel and the front wheels (unlike throttle-by-wire where there is no mechanical link, just wires and electrons).

The only thing that has changed from previous years is the method in which the assist is provided. I'm not saying everyone is imagining this "disconnected" feeling, but it must be a change in the assist levels and not a true disconnection. It would be really scary to have a true steering-by-wire system that, if it failed, left you with no steering at all. Despite the inconsistencies and disconnected feeling I am sure that, in an emergency, if you cranked the wheel one way or the other, the car would respond as expected.

This push for miniscule increases in fuel economy is, IMO, making our cars worse. Tried and true technologies are being thrown out in favor of technologies that are obviously not ready for primetime. In its current form, the EPS is obviously as step backwards from hydraulic assist, yet we have no choice and are paying full ticket to be beta testers.

Is this true?
It's hard to believe '13 and '12 steering systems are identical except the assist method cuz they feel and behave quite differently.

[Seinsmeld13]

Leor604. There is no issue for me with the steering rather it's the artificial boost. In dynamic on the highway for a brief moment it's as if there is no boost. This causes a little slight wiggle in the wheel. In comfort or aut steering I dont notice it.

[Leor604]

I am guessing this is the "fuel saving" aspect of the electric assist. The sensors are probably incorrectly detecting a "no assist required" condition so they briefly shut down the electric servo motor.

By Audi's own estimate, the EPS saves one gallon of fuel every 1200 to 2400 miles. Worth it?

[kooltechie]

By Audi's own estimate, the EPS saves one gallon of fuel every 1200 to 2400 miles. Worth it?

IMO, this is one of the worst decisions Audi made for luxury sport/GT cars such as ours.
Choosing to save 1 mpg over putting a great steering system is, simply put, absurd and stupid.

[Kandiru]

Laying over or under the Kreuz:)

OPs post sounds scary, would check car out.

One wonders if the Electric Power Steering may
have an electronic component, so total electrical failure
on highway = loss control = death?

Luckily after my Paradigm Signature matched 7.1 set
extravaganza I will be off the car market for a long time.

===================================


The steering issue seems to be an "electronic" issue and not related to the stiffness of the underbody or sways. Its like a slippage. I'm interested to hear of the people who have had this update done will report back that the issue is completely gone! If so, I will be at my dealership like Monday!

Right on, saw your post later.

[Jimmy Dark]

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=AB0731083DDDC582!5891

That is unbelievable play! I would be off the road if I did that in my E39 BMW. Subscribing to this thread as my 2013 gets built...

[JohnEnglish]

One wonders if the Electric Power Steering may
have an electronic component, so total electrical failure
on highway = loss control = death?
No, the electrical system simply provides the power steering boost. There is still a mechanical connection between the wheel and the steering rack. If the electrical system failed it would just be like if the engine cut out on a car with normal power steering or if the serpentine belt snapped. You can still steer, there's just no power steering.

[handruin]

I am guessing this is the "fuel saving" aspect of the electric assist. The sensors are probably incorrectly detecting a "no assist required" condition so they briefly shut down the electric servo motor.

By Audi's own estimate, the EPS saves one gallon of fuel every 1200 to 2400 miles. Worth it?

If this theory were true wouldn't this perceived dead spot actually be stiff and not sloppy if there was no actual assist being provided? With no steering boost the steering should be really stiff like it is in dynamic mode and not wiggly or loose like people have described.

[thedollardoctor]

If this theory were true wouldn't this perceived dead spot actually be stiff and not sloppy if there was no actual assist being provided? With no steering boost the steering should be really stiff like it is in dynamic mode and not wiggly or loose like people have described.

Interesting point! Maybe it's "over-assisting" on those moments of slippage?!? Either way, it's incredibly disconcerting and something that needs to he figured out and fixed. I'm wondering if the guy who had his entire system replaced has seen this issue fixed?

[handruin]

Interesting point! Maybe it's "over-assisting" on those moments of slippage?!? Either way, it's incredibly disconcerting and something that needs to he figured out and fixed. I'm wondering if the guy who had his entire system replaced has seen this issue fixed?

That's what I'm thinking also. There may need to be some tuning or sensors may need improving so that the very small on-center spot isn't over-compensated with boost. I imagine it must be somewhat tricky to have electronics identify very subtle steering corrections like those done with the on-center dead-spot feeling. I'd rather the car default to no-boost than any boost so that the center spot is firm.

[thedollardoctor]

That's what I'm thinking also. There may need to be some tuning or sensors may need improving so that the very small on-center spot isn't over-compensated with boost. I imagine it must be somewhat tricky to have electronics identify very subtle steering corrections like those done with the on-center dead-spot feeling. I'd rather the car default to no-boost than any boost so that the center spot is firm.

Me too. Another reason I agree with your assessment is that it seems my car does this more often when there is heavy wind, wet or slightly snowy weather, etc , which would seem to be a time where the electric steering "boost" would want to kick in more.

[handruin]

I don't really notice the sensation all that much in my car but it's possible I'm not noticing it as much as others or maybe my car isn't displaying as many symptoms? I think I've only become aware after reading threads like this on the issue with the steering. I have a little over 6K miles on my car now and I have winter tires on for the season. When the summer tires were on I felt like the car was a dream to drive (never owning any prior S4). The snow tires aren't as solid but understandably so. I have no mods and I do not believe I have the TSB update on my car but I don't know yet since I haven't asked. Mine car came in early July with the first or second batch so I don't think they would have applied the TSB to it that early. The only times I've noticed a little "play" in the steering wheel is when I'm driving on the highway and when it has been windy like you mentioned. It's times when exterior elements such as the wind or road conditions cause the car to change direction slightly that I notice it. I've yet to try the car in the snow but maybe tonight I can give it a try and see if I notice anything.

[Leor604]

Seinsmeld reported a feeling of no boost (I am guessing really heavy steering). You guys are experiencing really light steering?

@kooltechie: You think it's a bad decision based on an increase of 1mpg. How do you feel that your mileage has increased by only 0.0009 mpg, and that's the high estimate.

I go back to my point of forcing imperfect technologies down our throats for imperceptible benefits. Audi could have detuned the engine by 10 hp (unnoticeable) and probably saved more fuel than this. I may sound like an old fart (I am an old fart!) but I don't agree that all these new technologies are "progress". I feel the same way about the DSG in its current state of development. You can take away 10hp but let me keep my stick and hydraulic steering.

[handruin]

Seinsmeld reported a feeling of no boost (I am guessing really heavy steering). You guys are experiencing really light steering?

@kooltechie: You think it's a bad decision based on an increase of 1mpg. How do you feel that your mileage has increased by only 0.0009 mpg, and that's the high estimate.

I go back to my point of forcing imperfect technologies down our throats for imperceptible benefits. Audi could have detuned the engine by 10 hp (unnoticeable) and probably saved more fuel than this. I may sound like an old fart (I am an old fart!) but I don't agree that all these new technologies are "progress". I feel the same way about the DSG in its current state of development. You can take away 10hp but let me keep my stick and hydraulic steering.

No more power steering belts, hoses, fluid, or pumps to replace. That sounds like a nice imperceptible benefit to me. That's not to say an electric assist motor can't or won't die but electric motors tend to be fairly maintenance-free devices.

[kooltechie]

@kooltechie: You think it's a bad decision based on an increase of 1mpg. How do you feel that your mileage has increased by only 0.0009 mpg, and that's the high estimate.

I go back to my point of forcing imperfect technologies down our throats for imperceptible benefits. Audi could have detuned the engine by 10 hp (unnoticeable) and probably saved more fuel than this. I may sound like an old fart (I am an old fart!) but I don't agree that all these new technologies are "progress". I feel the same way about the DSG in its current state of development. You can take away 10hp but let me keep my stick and hydraulic steering.

Seriously....had I known about the steering issue, I might've bought something else or waited until a decent EPS became available.

[Leor604]

No more power steering belts, hoses, fluid, or pumps to replace. That sounds like a nice imperceptible benefit to me. That's not to say an electric assist motor can't or won't die but electric motors tend to be fairly maintenance-free devices.

In several decades of driving many cars, I have never experienced a PS failure or problem. Hydraulic systems are pretty bulletproof and tend to work properly, too.

[Seinsmeld13]

Other than the minor issue I am experiencing I prefer this electric steering. My 2010 had steering shudder issues from day one that remained unresolved. With a software update I'm sure what I am experiencing will be corrected. The 911 has electric steering so I'm not too worried about it.

[Thomas@TAI-VW]

Leor........RIGHT ON.. I fully agree! This "tech" a lot of times is unecessary and more of a problematic burden. Seimseld had "power steering issues" but he also failed to mention he got rid of his 2010 S4 for a 2013 because he unfortunately had...............DSG PROBLEMS,not to mention others have also experienced issues on low mileage cars.
I went for the last of the B8's,a 2012 and specified manual trans hearing that Audi was planning on offering EPS,I did not wait for a 2013 and am happy I bought the "simpler car",I also did not get all the Nav crap (I live on a island),and did not get the ADS stuff with the "variable ratio steering".......it is just more crap to go wrong and break IMO.
It is rumored that the next Audi S4 as well as most Audis will be offered "automatic only"........GAWD....I guess this is my last Audi then,after owning 6,owning not leasing,so I want something that will atleast last after the warranty expires.......A typical ESP repair will probably be in the 2-3K + range out of warranty,just like the 12K DSG trans replacements!!
If you are leasing,no worries,get a auto R8 if you can! But if you are looking at repairs after warranty,none of it is cheap.

[thedollardoctor]

ANOTHER UPDATE: was out of town for the weekend and not driving my car, came back yesterday, started my S to drop my son off at his mom's house and the steering issue was WAY WORSE!!! It was so bad that the only mode it was tolerable at all in was dynamic. In comfort or auto is was "skipping" all over the place!?! It used to only be "slightly" noticeable at highway speeds and never noticeable at lower speeds. Well, this skipping sensation was in my neighborhood at 25mph!!! UGH!! I'm so damn pissed right now I can barely see straight.

I may end up having to go all the way back to stock before going to dealer so I don't get screwed for having upgraded my sways, end links, and AK.

Does anyone think there may be a way with VAG-COM to adjust the sensitivity of the power assisted steering? I was thinking last night that maybe there is a place this could be done..... May go searching in the VAG-COM later

[Jones2012s4]

...
Does anyone think there may be a way with VAG-COM to adjust the sensitivity of the power assisted steering? I was thinking last night that maybe there is a place this could be done..... May go searching in the VAG-COM later

No reason AT ALL you should have to Vag-Com anything. That's absurd.

[thedollardoctor]

No reason AT ALL you should have to Vag-Com anything. That's absurd.

I agree with you 100%!! But dammit I can't take this crap anymore. On the drive home from breakfast this morning the damn steering was skipping all over the damn place!

[Toecutter]

I think something is wrong with your unit. I'm not having such symptoms at all. On cold mornings in Dynamic mode I get a slightly notchy steering but that's about it. I haven't read all of your replies so I might have missed it, but have you had your dealership look at it and if so, what did they say?

[thedollardoctor]

I think something is wrong with your unit. I'm not having such symptoms at all. On cold mornings in Dynamic mode I get a slightly notchy steering but that's about it. I haven't read all of your replies so I might have missed it, but have you had your dealership look at it and if so, what did they say?

I spoke with my service manager about this and he confirmed based on my VIN that the software update had been applied to my car already. Haven't taken it in yet to be looked at as I have USS sways, end links and AK installed and not sure how they will react to that stuff in relation to this issue. I could see them "blaming" those mods for the issues I am having a denying any claims related to steering. I do not know if my dealership is mod friendly or not. I am considering going back to stock sways, end links, and K member before taking i in but that will be a pain in my ass.

I KNOW this issue is related to the electronic steering! But I could also see how the above listed mods could have an effect on the way the electronic steering module feels it needs to "assist". I noticed this get much worse over the last week or two since instaling the AK. I am wondering if the effect of the AK stiffening the steering is causing the Electronic steering to "think" something is wrong, sensing the sterring wheels is MUCH stiffer than it is "supposed to be" based on the ECU. And perhaps THIS is why it is doing this. This would also make sense as to why it is so much worse in Comfort mode because the steering is "supposed to be" so much easier and light easier in that mode, thus the electronic steering "thinks" something is wrong and tries to "boost" the steering to lighten it. And vise versa in dynamic where the ECU is expecting it to be tighter so it doesn't try to assits as much. Does this make sense?

I have also read that the ECU takes time to adjust to changes you make to the car like a new intake or exhaust, the ECU needs to time to remap itself. I am windering if this has also happened to the ECU for the steering assist. Either way this is so insanely aggravating and making me hate driving my car because its all I notice anymore! I have GOT to figure something out.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this? Or ideas? VAG-Com adjustments?

[esz61]

ANOTHER UPDATE: was out of town for the weekend and not driving my car, came back yesterday, started my S to drop my son off at his mom's house and the steering issue was WAY WORSE!!! It was so bad that the only mode it was tolerable at all in was dynamic. In comfort or auto is was "skipping" all over the place!?! It used to only be "slightly" noticeable at highway speeds and never noticeable at lower speeds. Well, this skipping sensation was in my neighborhood at 25mph!!! UGH!! I'm so damn pissed right now I can barely see straight.

I may end up having to go all the way back to stock before going to dealer so I don't get screwed for having upgraded my sways, end links, and AK.

Does anyone think there may be a way with VAG-COM to adjust the sensitivity of the power assisted steering? I was thinking last night that maybe there is a place this could be done..... May go searching in the VAG-COM later

So as not to further obfuscate this situation, am I correct to state that you have made several suspension modifications to your car, you are now having suspension related issues, and your issues MUST be the fault of the car design despite the fact that many other people (myself included) have stated that they are having no similar issues? Hmmm ...
Maybe going back to stock is the first logical place to start in your diagnostic process.

[thedollardoctor]

So as not to further obfuscate this situation, am I correct to state that you have made several suspension modifications to your car, you are now having suspension related issues, and your issues MUST be the fault of the car design despite the fact that many other people (myself included) have stated that they are having no similar issues? Hmmm ...
Maybe going back to stock is the first logical place to start in your diagnostic process.

I appreciate your "insight" but I am by no means the ONLY person with the same mods and others with them are also NOT having these issue., Besides, this is NOT a suspension issue, it's a STEERING issue, hence the title of this thread "Steering Issues - 2013" Which is why I ALSO stated that the AK..... MAY be effecting this issue somewhat, since it is related to STEERING.

So thanks, but you're wrong and I'm not an idiot man, I know how to "diagnose" a problem based on logical deduction. I have done a great deal of research on these boards about this issue.

[mx22]

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=AB0731083DDDC582!5891

wow, this is crazy...

[esz61]

I appreciate your "insight" but I am by no means the ONLY person with the same mods and others with them are also NOT having these issue., Besides, this is NOT a suspension issue, it's a STEERING issue, hence the title of this thread "Steering Issues - 2013" Which is why I ALSO stated that the AK..... MAY be effecting this issue somewhat, since it is related to STEERING.

So thanks, but you're wrong and I'm not an idiot man, I know how to "diagnose" a problem based on logical deduction. I have done a great deal of research on these boards about this issue.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. Perhaps my delivery could have been less inflammatory. I hope you are able to get to the root of the problem and get the issue resolved.

[thedollardoctor]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. Perhaps my delivery could have been less inflammatory. I hope you are able to get to the root of the problem and get the issue resolved.

It's all good man, not trying to be a jerk, I'm just SO ANGRY about this issue! It seems there are people who have no mods who have this issue (it popped up on me when my car was 100% stock and part of my upgrading of those parts was to try to make it BETTER), and there are people with mods that have this issue. I think it's a software issue, but have no idea how to fix this.

I have a PM into the guy on here who actually had his dealer replace his entire module with a new one from Germany to see if his has been fixed and if so, I may go back to stock and take it into my dealer to request a warranty repair the same way.

I hope this issue doesn't happen to you! It's beyond frustrating!

[esz61]

It's all good man, not trying to be a jerk, I'm just SO ANGRY about this issue! It seems there are people who have no mods who have this issue (it popped up on me when my car was 100% stock and part of my upgrading of those parts was to try to make it BETTER), and there are people with mods that have this issue. I think it's a software issue, but have no idea how to fix this.

I have a PM into the guy on here who actually had his dealer replace his entire module with a new one from Germany to see if his has been fixed and if so, I may go back to stock and take it into my dealer to request a warranty repair the same way.

I hope this issue doesn't happen to you! It's beyond frustrating!

No worries. I hope it doesn't happen to me either. At least your car is the fastest color!

[Nuccadoc]

I just wanted to say a big thank you to all that are working on this issue currently, appreciate everyones opinions and expertise and thoughts. Together, I'm sure we can find out the issue. Mine car isn't here until March, and have the Eurocode stuff all ready to go. Has me second guessing to put it on same day as delivery. Hopefully we can find a fix, or at least, make enough noise for Audi to notice and take a closer look. They have been pretty good in the past from what I've read, but it will definitely take this community to help get the ball rolling.

Here is to hoping we can find a fix! And soon!

On a side note, was driving to work this am in my trusty ol' Rav, and at several different speeds, did the back and forth with the steering wheel and it didn't move the car that much at all. Could move it quite a bit side to side before I got any input. Anyway, FWIW.

[thedollardoctor]

VAG COM related UPDATE:

Ok, so I just spent some time combing throught the ECU with my VAG COM and here is what I found in the "Steering Assist Module - 44". It appears there are ways to track some data in this area related to the steering assist functions, though I have no idea how to do that and don't want to mess with that area. I also found in the area listed "Basic Settings" in the "long coding" area two options, one is listed as "resetting of all adaptations" and the other is listed as "resetting of learned values for steering assistance". Now this last one I am VERY tempted to check and see what happens, however I am by NO MEANS a VAG COM expert and really dont know what would/could happen if I did this. Anyone with greater knowledge in this area care to weigh in?

I also ran a system scan and aside from a parking brake fault and a fog light error code I didn't find any fault codes related to the steering assist module.

[afig367]

So I've started noticing this issue in my B8.5 recently as well. Best description is one from an earlier reply of the steering feeling like it's on rails, i.e., one rail is slightly to the right, the other is slightly to the left, but it has no true "center." Driving requires constant correction.

I do mostly stop/go driving on a brief commute to work. I haven't checked whether I get this at highway speeds....BUT, I would add the observation that I seem to get it most when the car is cold. Once it warms up, this sensation entirely goes away.

All in all, I love this car, but I'd have to say that it's the most fickle car I've owned in cold weather. Once it warms up....great, but until then, lots of squeaks, farts, water vapor getting into/freezing inside bushings, etc.

[kooltechie]

adding another issue to this thread [:(]
the amount of steering assist/boost seems very inconsistent in the same ADS selection.
for example, sometimes all ADS settings feel too light - I can steer effortlessly in the Dynamic mode as if it's in the Comfort mode, but other times the Comfort mode feels as if it's in the Dynamic mode, requiring too much effort to steer.
switching between all ADS settings while driving or the ignition-on doesn't seem to help at all - once the car is on, then the overall steering assist/boost seems to be either too much or too little until the car is turned off.
then the next time I drive, the steering assist/boost is, again, either too much or too little....very inconsistent.

so the disappointment with the new EPS and AUDI continues.

fyi, my default ADS setting is Comfort and switch to either Individual or Dynamic when driving on the freeway.

[kooltechie]

Got the car back from the dealer today. They replaced the electro-mechanical steering box, Coded the module and performed an alogment. The part number was 8k1-423-055-ac for the steering unit.

Only put 10 miles on the car so I will have to wait and see if this finally fixes the problem.

any updates???
how's the new steering box???

[afig367]

Yup, I've experienced this as well. Sometimes Comfort gets pretty stiff and I have to actually check ADS. (I then have a big 'WTF Moment' when I realize it's been in Comfort all along.


adding another issue to this thread [:(]
the amount of steering assist/boost seems very inconsistent in the same ADS selection.
for example, sometimes all ADS settings feel too light - I can steer effortlessly in the Dynamic mode as if it's in the Comfort mode, but other times the Comfort mode feels as if it's in the Dynamic mode, requiring too much effort to steer.
switching between all ADS settings while driving or the ignition-on doesn't seem to help at all - once the car is on, then the overall steering assist/boost seems to be either too much or too little until the car is turned off.
then the next time I drive, the steering assist/boost is, again, either too much or too little....very inconsistent.

so the disappointment with the new EPS and AUDI continues.

fyi, my default ADS setting is Comfort and switch to either Individual or Dynamic when driving on the freeway.

[thedollardoctor]

any updates???
how's the new steering box???

I PM'd clippard, he said it's better with the new steering unit, but he has only driven about 50 miles with it, is going to wait another couple hundred miles before making his "official" assessment.

I'm sure he'll weigh in later on this. But that's what he told me when I sent him the message.

I also have a message into Eurocode as to my theory about whether the AK might actually make this situation WORSE, by stiffening the steering so much that it confuses the ECU and makes it think it needs to boost more. Hopefully they will also weigh in soon.

[Nuccadoc]

I PM'd clippard, he said it's better with the new steering unit, but he has only driven about 50 miles with it, is going to wait another couple hundred miles before making his "official" assessment.

I'm sure he'll weigh in later on this. But that's what he told me when I sent him the message.

I also have a message into Eurocode as to my theory about whether the AK might actually make this situation WORSE, by stiffening the steering so much that it confuses the ECU and makes it think it needs to boost more. Hopefully they will also weigh in soon.

So I am questioning out loud. If his new steering unit indeed works, perhaps they, Audi, have changed something and maybe they are putting any updates in the new cars? Can't wait to chime in and see if it is still happening with current builds. I wonder if this is happening with 'first batch' cars, or is this problem found throughout?

[tba]

I have a 2013 S4 with the Eurocode sways, end links and Alu Kreuz, driven mostly with the steering set in Dynamic. Since installing the Eurocode parts, I have encountered some of the slight tramlining, float and pull in the steering, but I mostly attribute it to the road conditions since I can consistently reproduce the effect on the same sections of road with no issues elsewhere. I have also noticed that the float and pull issues tend to occur more when the front wheels encounter different surfaces. A dip on one side of the road can induce a pull in the steering at 25mph, while taking a mid turn freeway seam at 50mph is no problem.
The ultimate test would be to find a way to disable the steering assist. Since it is electric, maybe pulling a fuse or relay would allow you to run a test to see if the issues persist.

[mattchat]

Adding to this steering issue, has anyone noticed the grinding noise that comes from the steering column? I usually drive in Dynamic and during certain situations on hard turns I can feel and hear what sounds like metal on metal rubbing from the stearing column. I noticed it a lot in the summer when I first got the car, but its gotten better (or its the added noise of the snow that has hidden it).

[tba]

That's probably the differentials. It's normal in hard turns since the wheels are moving at different rates.

[afig367]

I recently had some grinding backing up in hard turns (getting out of a space). Only did it only cold starts and it first started after a snowstorm.

I attributed it to water vapor/ice in one of the bushings that later melted and evaporated away. Yours could be the front differential or an outer CV joint boot. Have you tried it in Comfort?




Adding to this steering issue, has anyone noticed the grinding noise that comes from the steering column? I usually drive in Dynamic and during certain situations on hard turns I can feel and hear what sounds like metal on metal rubbing from the stearing column. I noticed it a lot in the summer when I first got the car, but its gotten better (or its the added noise of the snow that has hidden it).

[Bclippard]

The new steering unit has seemed to work so far. I will let you guy now more when I get a few more miles on the car but, so far so good.

[Canvasoso]

For those having steering issues, do you mind posting your build date on the door sticker?

[Nuccadoc]

For those having steering issues, do you mind posting your build date on the door sticker?

Probably good to have those WITHOUT problems post their build date as well as we try to tackle the issue. Just a thought

[mattchat]

It's definitely coming from the steering wheel itself. It's an inside cabin noise



That's probably the differentials. It's normal in hard turns since the wheels are moving at different rates.


I recently had some grinding backing up in hard turns (getting out of a space). Only did it only cold starts and it first started after a snowstorm.

I attributed it to water vapor/ice in one of the bushings that later melted and evaporated away. Yours could be the front differential or an outer CV joint boot. Have you tried it in Comfort?

[thedollardoctor]

Happy to post my build date, but can't find it. Where is it located exactly?

[Canvasoso]

If you open the driver side front door, the sticker is located at the bottom of the driver side frame (bottom of the B-pillar, between the front door, and rear door). On the sticker, you'll see your VIN number and your build date.

My build date is 9/12. Im curious to see if folks that are experiencing some of these steering symptoms are of early build MY13 production dates.

[thedollardoctor]

Mine is 7/12 and I have A LOT of issues with my electric steering!

[Sjones630]

Probably good to have those WITHOUT problems post their build date as well as we try to tackle the issue. Just a thought

My build date is 8/12 and I have not, so far, experienced any of the above described problems. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.

I have an AK installed.

[Leor604]

Yeah, I think it's a good idea for you guys to start documenting the issue. Build date or vin range would be a good start.

If, after a certain build date, the problems seem to disappear then there is very likely a software/hardware issue that can be addressed through a TSB. Bad coding, bad sensors, faulty servo motor, etc. Being a safety issue, if Audi doesn't acknowledge or do anything then NHTSA will get involved if they receive enough complaints (this is where the documentation comes in handy).

With the amount of engineering and testing that goes into these components before they every find their way into production, I find it difficult to believe that the EPS system can really be this bad. This MUST be rectifiable flaw.

Has anybody taken a look at any of the other model forums to see if they are having issues, or is this an isolated S4 problem? Someone mentioned BMW is having some issues as well.

[Nuccadoc]

Has anybody taken a look at any of the other model forums to see if they are having issues, or is this an isolated S4 problem?

seeing one in the A4 s-line forum
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/512943-2013-audi-a4-in-S-mode-steering-loose-on-highway

and they mentioned these in the S5 forum

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ering-problems
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Review-2013-S5

[CharlieG]

Mine's a 9/12 build and so far, no issues.

[JohnEnglish]

Mine has an 11/12 build date and it tracks straight and true on the highway, has no "dead spots" in the wheel, is nice a tight in dynamic mode and relaxed (but not lose) in comfort mode. It doesn't make any weird noises either.

[bbhbba]

Mine is 07/12 and I have not experienced anything unusual.

[afig367]

I have the tramlining feeling and an early build date. 6/12.


My build date is 8/12 and I have not, so far, experienced any of the above described problems. Hope I didn't just jinx myself.

I have an AK installed.

[stactum]

My build date 10/08 and I don't really have that problem. I have Alu Kreuz and USS installed and about 30 miles one way commute to work and I've been paying close attention since the start of this thread. I tried it in different modes, and even thought I had the problem, but it was really in my head more than anything.

Eurocode stuff did improve handling and feel of the car. I wouldn't say it's day and night, but it is noticeable difference.

[BzzzBom]

6/12 build and no problems -- have USS sways, end links and Alu Kreuz

[guestlinger]

11/2012 and no problems

[Green Neenja]

Build date of 08/12 and no problems.

[Foxglove]

10/12 - no problems I can tell.

[kooltechie]

8/12 - experiencing the steering issues.

[tba]

6/12 - Eurocode sways, end links and Alu Kreuz installed
I'm going to say no problems. Didn't notice any issues before installing the Alu Kreuz. And after an hour or so of driving tonight testing Comfort and Dynamic steering settings over the same "problem" sections of roads, I think whatever issues I thought I had with the steering can be attributed to the Alu Kreuz improving the feedback to the steering wheel.

[esz61]

07/12 build date - no steering issues or problems.

[thedollardoctor]

UPDATE: okay, so I just had a nice long conversation with an Audi tech at my dealership. I initially called to talk to him about my thoughts of using the VAG COM to reset the electric steering assist learned behaviors, but he said based on my explanation of what I have been experiencing that that won't fix anything.

He is of the opinion that the issue many of us are experiencing is directly related to a "faulty steering angle sensor". He gave me a very detailed explanation of the systems that are in play related to this issue and his explanation made a great deal of sense.

To try to break it down to laymans terms, the steering sensor has two different torque monitors, one that monitors torque that WE put on the steering wheel and the other that monitors torque that the chassis and road put on the car. The sensors are constantly reacting to and adjusting to each set of inputs. Based on my description of holding the wheel steady and the wheel then "slipping" he said it appears the sensor is sensing a steering input that doesn't exist, causing it to think it needs to adjust. Thus it's the sensor that is faulty.

I have an appt to take it in on Thursday of next week and THIS exact tech is going to work on my car.

I also talked to him about the suspension mods I have done (sways, end links, AK) and he said that there is NO way any of that could have anything to do with the issues I am having. He said the electronic steering assist is so complex it wouldn't even notice those things or be bothered by them at all. He also told me none of that will have any effect on a warranty claim on my car for this issue.

So for the first time in a while related to this issue I feel I got some GOOD NEWS!!! I suggest any of the rest of you that are having these issues get in touch with your dealer about this as well. I also found out my dealership is actually VERY mod friendly, which is nice :-)

Hope this post helps others as much as I feel it has helped me. Time will tell if this actually fixes things....... next Thursday can't come soon enough!!

[zillmc]

September 2012 build date, no significant issues.

[kooltechie]

UPDATE: okay, so I just had a nice long conversation with an Audi tech at my dealership. I initially called to talk to him about my thoughts of using the VAG COM to reset the electric steering assist learned behaviors, but he said based on my explanation of what I have been experiencing that that won't fix anything.

He is of the opinion that the issue many of us are experiencing is directly related to a "faulty steering angle sensor". He gave me a very detailed explanation of the systems that are in play related to this issue and his explanation made a great deal of sense.

To try to break it down to laymans terms, the steering sensor has two different torque monitors, one that monitors torque that WE put on the steering wheel and the other that monitors torque that the chassis and road put on the car. The sensors are constantly reacting to and adjusting to each set of inputs. Based on my description of holding the wheel steady and the wheel then "slipping" he said it appears the sensor is sensing a steering input that doesn't exist, causing it to think it needs to adjust. Thus it's the sensor that is faulty.

I have an appt to take it in on Thursday of next week and THIS exact tech is going to work on my car.

I also talked to him about the suspension mods I have done (sways, end links, AK) and he said that there is NO way any of that could have anything to do with the issues I am having. He said the electronic steering assist is so complex it wouldn't even notice those things or be bothered by them at all. He also told me none of that will have any effect on a warranty claim on my car for this issue.

So for the first time in a while related to this issue I feel I got some GOOD NEWS!!! I suggest any of the rest of you that are having these issues get in touch with your dealer about this as well. I also found out my dealership is actually VERY mod friendly, which is nice :-)

Hope this post helps others as much as I feel it has helped me. Time will tell if this actually fixes things....... next Thursday can't come soon enough!!

GREAT!!!!
can't wait to hear from you after Thursday next week - hopefully it gets fixed for good [up]

[Nuccadoc]

@dollardoc

Great to hear. That is the most info you have been able to get this far. Can't wait until next Thursday, although probably not as much as you ;) also good to hear from him that eurocode add ons aren't interfering, didn't think so, but to have them back us up is great. My sales guy says he hasn't heard of any of these issues, but not really expecting him to. Anyway, keep us updated! Hope it's just a bad sensor and an easy fix!

[thedollardoctor]

@dollardoc

Great to hear. That is the most info you have been able to get this far. Can't wait until next Thursday, although probably not as much as you ;) also good to hear from him that eurocode add ons aren't interfering, didn't think so, but to have them back us up is great. My sales guy says he hasn't heard of any of these issues, but not really expecting him to. Anyway, keep us updated! Hope it's just a bad sensor and an easy fix!

Thanks Ryan! I new you'd be happy to hear that as well. He actually said the steering system on the 13' S is so sophisticated that all those suspension mods are like a fly on an elephants back, it doesn't even register or bother it one bit.

He was also explaining about how you really won't even feel actual "tram lining" where a car would seem to pull into road ruts on a highway, usually due to wide tires etc, because the bottom part of the torque sensor is adjusting for that in real time on the fly and those sensation don't typically make it to the steering wheel. Pretty crazy stuff. I think that's a big part of why it seems harder to "feel the road" in the new S4 steering wheel. It's due to this new system. Will take some getting used to. Once it's fixed though I'll be very happy with it!

[thirddecay]

2013 s5 driver here and im having a similar problem as some here, my original thread in the s5 section (linked above by someone) seems to have been removed or gone dead for some reason.

build date 07/12.

there is this strange resistance point in the middle of the wheel when driving straight that forces me to have it pointed slightly to the right or left and requires constant back and forth correcting over this resistance point. its feels almost like a bubble in the middle of the wheel that wont allow me to drive straight. the car definately didnt do this for the first couple thousand kms and still doesnt happen every time i drive. its going in for the 8000km service this week sometime so hopefully i can get some info to pass on.

the steering update people mention above did nothing to correct this problem. service manager said the update had something to do with a steering sensor giving false readings which makes some sense with what dollardoctor is saying and might correct some of those dead spot issues people are having.

edit: forgot to mention im running completely stock. problem persisted through summer to winter tire change as well as across all drive select modes.

[thedollardoctor]

^^ @ thirddecay yep, sounds like your dealership has the same understanding of this issue as mine. Makes sense to me and the tech was able to describe the issue the same way I have experienced it and he has never experienced it, he just knows how the sensors work and how this "could" be the issue. I hope this fixes your issue as well. I'll report back once mine has been to the shop in a week.

[KitB8S4]

2013 build on 6/12. I am lowered on H&R OE springs. 5700 miles and no issues. When it went in for the 5k service, they ran the vin and no steering update was needed.

[thirddecay]

quick update...

had my service done today and they did an alignment. problem is still there.

kind of worried they didn't actually do anything other than balance my tires, all to the same pressure, and brush it aside in the hope ill let it go. 8 cars in for service, two techs working and magically it was ready within 3 hours. :(

[thedollardoctor]

quick update...

had my service done today and they did an alignment. problem is still there.

kind of worried they didn't actually do anything other than balance my tires, all to the same pressure, and brush it aside in the hope ill let it go. 8 cars in for service, two techs working and magically it was ready within 3 hours. :(

Hmmm, that's weird man. Based on your earlier post it seemed they believed it was related to a faulty steering angle sensor, but based on this post, they did an alignment!? I would talk to the Audi service manager about this and tell him based on research you have done online you think it's a faulty steering angle sensor. And have them check that.

The tech I spoke with said the most difficult thing about this issue is that it doesn't and won't throw a fault code because the system "thinks" it's operating correctly. So it will be more difficult for some dealerships to diagnose. Hope you can get this resolved man. I know the feeling of driving such a nice car with this issue, it's incredibly aggravating!

If you have no luck when you try again, maybe I could try to help out and get the tech I talked to to call your service manager to give his opinion? Couldn't hurt to try

[Franky_d]

The tech I spoke with said the most difficult thing about this issue is that it doesn't and won't throw a fault code because the system "thinks" it's operating correctly. So it will be more difficult for some dealerships to diagnose. Hope you can get this resolved man. I know the feeling of driving such a nice car with this issue, it's incredibly aggravating!


Hi the dollardoctor,

I've got a Q5 2013 with steering issue. It is too light on the highway in the center position, it tend to go off the straight constantly and I need to make small corrections with steering all the time. It's not major but quite annoying. I am getting tired after few hours driving. In town I feel either light gaps or assist pulling one or the other unnecessary. Although my issues are somewhat different from what you describe, it could be that one ofthe sensors is not feeding correct info to the system and it end up doing unnecessary moves.

Isn't it today you are going to the dealership? I wish you good luck and hope to here of the results of the visit!

The idea about angle sensor is interesting. How would your mechanic diagnose it if it does not show on the computer? Drive around with the computer connected and record sensor's performance? Or just swap it with a new one and check if it helped?

[thedollardoctor]

Hi the dollardoctor,

I've got a Q5 2013 with steering issue. It is too light on the highway in the center position, it tend to go off the straight constantly and I need to make small corrections with steering all the time. It's not major but quite annoying. I am getting tired after few hours driving. In town I feel either light gaps or assist pulling one or the other unnecessary. Although my issues are somewhat different from what you describe, it could be that one ofthe sensors is not feeding correct info to the system and it end up doing unnecessary moves.

Isn't it today you are going to the dealership? I wish you good luck and hope to here of the results of the visit!

The idea about angle sensor is interesting. How would your mechanic diagnose it if it does not show on the computer? Drive around with the computer connected and record sensor's performance? Or just swap it with a new one and check if it helped?

Hey Franky,

Actually what you are describing is VERY similar to what I am experiencing! The tech was able to determine over the phone what he believed it to be just based on my explanation and his knowledge of what "systems" are operating the steering behaviors. And to answer your question, he said since it doesn't throw a fault code, he will have to drive it a bit and experience the slipping to know for sure. But overall, since steering is a safety system, Audi won't mess around with it, they'll replace the whole unit if need be.

Taking my car in this morning, I'll report back with any new info as soon as I have it!

Here's to hoping my loaner is an RS5 :-)

[Nuccadoc]

Hey J.R.

wishing you the best today with your dealer and hoping they can find something out more concrete! I think you have a lot of people behind you on this! Glad you have someone that is eager and knowledgeable to work with and just isn't blowing you and the 'issue' off, good to see. Hopefully a model for others to follow! And of course, hope you get the RS5 for a loaner! That would be fun!

[thedollardoctor]

Ryan,

Thanks man, had a nice long chat with the tech again, he's on top of it. Of course I haven't had the steering issue in days and told him he may not be able to replicate it while driving it, but told him in which modes and driving conditions it seemed to pop up most often.

Loaner is a VW CC! Wtf?!? Not even an AUDI!? This is something I intend to change if they need to keep my S for a while. I at least want an Audi and if possible, an A6, Q7, or Q5 in the order.

Will report back with any updates from the tech as I have them. Crossing my fingers!

[Nuccadoc]

Ryan,

Thanks man, had a nice long chat with the tech again, he's on top of it. Of course I haven't had the steering issue in days and told him he may not be able to replicate it while driving it, but told him in which modes and driving conditions it seemed to pop up most often.

Loaner is a VW CC! Wtf?!? Not even an AUDI!? This is something I intend to change if they need to keep my S for a while. I at least want an Audi and if possible, an A6, Q7, or Q5 in the order.

Will report back with any updates from the tech as I have them. Crossing my fingers!

^^ I guess it looks like life lessons remain constant. Sorry about the loaner, had me LOL! The upside is you have a great tech. Better to have that than a tech that won't work with you, even if he have you and R8 as a loaner, well, that may be pushing it, but, here is to them working on it quick, that is unless like some other parts, they have to go directly to the production line to pull the part. Hopefully not. At least this way, you will feel like I do when I test drive the S's, after driving to the dealer in the Rav4, the S feels like a stinking rocket! You will love your S more when you get it back, still sorry though ;)

[Bclippard]

Ryan,

Thanks man, had a nice long chat with the tech again, he's on top of it. Of course I haven't had the steering issue in days and told him he may not be able to replicate it while driving it, but told him in which modes and driving conditions it seemed to pop up most often.

Loaner is a VW CC! Wtf?!? Not even an AUDI!? This is something I intend to change if they need to keep my S for a while. I at least want an Audi and if possible, an A6, Q7, or Q5 in the order.

Will report back with any updates from the tech as I have them. Crossing my fingers!

Hopefully they will resolve your problem. I have put about 250miles on my car since the replacement of my steering unit and have not had a single issue.

[kooltechie]

Hopefully they will resolve your problem. I have put about 250miles on my car since the replacement of my steering unit and have not had a single issue.

so the issues seem to have been fixed?
awesome!!!!
would you let us know what parts were replaced, i.e. sensors or the whole steering rack/module?

can't wait to have mine fixed [up]

[thedollardoctor]

^^ I guess it looks like life lessons remain constant. Sorry about the loaner, had me LOL! The upside is you have a great tech. Better to have that than a tech that won't work with you, even if he have you and R8 as a loaner, well, that may be pushing it, but, here is to them working on it quick, that is unless like some other parts, they have to go directly to the production line to pull the part. Hopefully not. At least this way, you will feel like I do when I test drive the S's, after driving to the dealer in the Rav4, the S feels like a stinking rocket! You will love your S more when you get it back, still sorry though ;)

Ryan,

Loaner update: called in and told them a VW CC in exchange for my S4 wasn't doing it for me and asked what else I could get. An A4 and a Q5 were turned in this afternoon. Heading back to swap out this VW for an Audi :-)

[Nuccadoc]

Ryan,

Loaner update: called in and told them a VW CC in exchange for my S4 wasn't doing it for me and asked what else I could get. An A4 and a Q5 were turned in this afternoon. Heading back to swap out this VW for an Audi :-)

Yes! That's the way! Which one are you going to with? If its the 3.0t q5, I would try that personally, let us know!

[thedollardoctor]

Yes! That's the way! Which one are you going to with? If its the 3.0t q5, I would try that personally, let us know!

I believe my option of Q5 is a 2012 with the 2.0T 4 cylinder. My decision will come down to options etx on each car. Will update in a bit

[handruin]

Ryan,

Loaner update: called in and told them a VW CC in exchange for my S4 wasn't doing it for me and asked what else I could get. An A4 and a Q5 were turned in this afternoon. Heading back to swap out this VW for an Audi :-)

That's nice of them to update the loaner car. I feel like it would be a pain for me to have to drop off a loner and pick up a new one given the location of the dealer I would use. Maybe it's just me and my expectation of things but I don't really care what kind of loaner car I get as long as it operates fine. Is it really a common expectation that with own/leasing an Audi that the loaner should be another Audi of similar or better make/model? Maybe my standards/expectations are lower but it really doesn't matter to me. My one exception to this might be in the case of a lease and the car is in under extended warranty repair. Then I could see being annoyed that I was paying a lease for a product I couldn't use. For the record I'm not judging you for wanting the nicer loaner, I'm more interested in the background of how you feel towards getting a "lesser" car than the S4 (I quoted "lesser" because that was my interpretation of your opinion on the CC).

[thedollardoctor]

That's nice of them to update the loaner car. I feel like it would be a pain for me to have to drop off a loner and pick up a new one given the location of the dealer I would use. Maybe it's just me and my expectation of things but I don't really care what kind of loaner car I get as long as it operates fine. Is it really a common expectation that with own/leasing an Audi that the loaner should be another Audi of similar or better make/model? Maybe my standards/expectations are lower but it really doesn't matter to me. My one exception to this might be in the case of a lease and the car is in under extended warranty repair. Then I could see being annoyed that I was paying a lease for a product I couldn't use. For the record I'm not judging you for wanting the nicer loaner, I'm more interested in the background of how you feel towards getting a "lesser" car than the S4 (I quoted "lesser" because that was my interpretation of your opinion on the CC).

The dealer I go to is an Audi, VW, Jaguar, and Porsche dealership. I have a feeling if someone turned in a Porsche for service they would expect a loaner that is a Porsche.

I'm not trying to be a snob or anything and I don't think you are implying that in general. And overall, if my car were going in for a day for an oil change, id be fine with whatever, but they will likely need it for a week or so if parts are to be ordered and I am leasing my S, so yeah, I'd like to have at least somewhat of a comparable loaner if possible. If I called an they said "VW CC is all we have" I wouldn't have thrown a fit or anything. Just my preference to have a loaner of similar fit and finish to my current car. Obviously I don't expect them to give me another S model or R8 to drive, but at least an A4 would be preferred.

Also, my dealership is directly between my office and home so only takes a minute to swing by and switch them out.

Hope this explains it more. It was mostly meant "tongue in cheek" between nuccadoc and I. That being said, I DO want an Audi while my Audi is being serviced if at all possible

[Bclippard]

so the issues seem to have been fixed?
awesome!!!!
would you let us know what parts were replaced, i.e. sensors or the whole steering rack/module?

can't wait to have mine fixed [up]

The part number list on my service order is 8k1-423-055-ac which is an Electro-Mechanical Steering Box.

[thedollardoctor]

Ok, so picked up a 2013 A4 loaner with like 2,500 miles and I SWEAR, this damn car has the steering issue also!! Unreal. Just driving it home it kept doing the whole "slip and grab, slip and grab" while steering at 35-45mph driving straight.

[kooltechie]

Ok, so picked up a 2013 A4 loaner with like 2,500 miles and I SWEAR, this damn car has the steering issue also!! Unreal. Just driving it home it kept doing the whole "slip and grab, slip and grab" while steering at 35-45mph driving straight.

a few weeks after picking up my S5, I went back to the dealer to test drive another S5 to see if the steering issues were isolated to my car only.
it had the same issues.
my guess is there are more than a handful number of 2013 A4/S4/A5/S5 models with the bad steering box/sensors.
disappointed....very disappointed, Audi [mad]

[thedollardoctor]

Well, just got the call from Audi service. They said Audi told them they need to replace the entire "steering rack" which I imagine is the same thing that was replaced on clippard's car. Said they ordered the part tonight but don't have an ETA, and were warned by Audi the part "may be" on back order. He said obviously this isn't the first one that has had this issue as Audi is now very aware of what is wrong.

Service manager told me just to drive the A4 for now and he'll let me know when they have any updates for me. So, good news is it is being fixed under warranty, bad news is, it may be a while......

[Nuccadoc]

Well, just got the call from Audi service. They said Audi told them they need to replace the entire "steering rack" which I imagine is the same thing that was replaced on clippard's car. Said they ordered the part tonight but don't have an ETA, and were warned by Audi the part "may be" on back order. He said obviously this isn't the first one that has had this issue as Audi is now very aware of what is wrong.

Service manager told me just to drive the A4 for now and he'll let me know when they have any updates for me. So, good news is it is being fixed under warranty, bad news is, it may be a while......

Hmmmm, happy and sad for you but mostly happy :) It's being addressed and that is great. Yeah the wait will suck, but better the wait in the A4 than the VW ;) On a plus note for me, as you mentioned Audi is now very aware of this, perhaps since my car isn't under construction as of yet, yeah, that reads funny!, then perhaps mine will come with a newer rack or what have you that they are addressing for you. Hope you don't have to wait too long. Does the rack come with new sensors as well? Don't know all that is included in the 'rack'. If it's on back order, this problem is probably a lot more wide spread than we thought. I guess on these forums we only get a very small % of what is really going on out there. Glad they are fixing it and glad they didn't try to back out due to eurocode mods! For some dealerships, you hang an air freshener, and it's td-1!

[Bclippard]

Well, just got the call from Audi service. They said Audi told them they need to replace the entire "steering rack" which I imagine is the same thing that was replaced on clippard's car. Said they ordered the part tonight but don't have an ETA, and were warned by Audi the part "may be" on back order. He said obviously this isn't the first one that has had this issue as Audi is now very aware of what is wrong.

Service manager told me just to drive the A4 for now and he'll let me know when they have any updates for me. So, good news is it is being fixed under warranty, bad news is, it may be a while......

That is the same item that was replaced on my car!

[kooltechie]

Hopefully they will resolve your problem. I have put about 250miles on my car since the replacement of my steering unit and have not had a single issue.

how does the steering feel after getting it fixed?
is it precise and confident?
and how do you like it compared to the hydraulic steering system?

[thedollardoctor]

That is the same item that was replaced on my car!

Actually glad to hear that, since it seems yours is fixed. I think this issue is probably MUCH more widespread than Audi is letting on. As I said, the A4 loaner I have has the same issue. And I'm also guessing that most non-enthusiasts, may not even notice anything or just think it's normal.

Time will tell, but I won't be at all surprised if there is a major recall for this issue. My tech didn't even drive the car to try to replicate the issue. He called in to Audi and they said "replace the rack". As I said before, Audi is acutely aware of this issue.

I would recommend any other people having this issue take your car to your dealer and have them call it in. Since it's a safety issue, Audi isn't messing around.

[boss2k]

is there any build dates for the cars having these issues, i just took delivery of my car 10 days back and i haven't noticed this issue, have driven in freeways till 30 mins max at a stretch and steering was tight.

[thedollardoctor]

The build dates effected appear to be all over the place. No noticeable pattern to them. Hopefully yours will be fine!

[Leor604]

Not a good sign that there is no pattern. That probably rules out a batch of bad parts.

Hopefully the rack replacement is a fix and not a band aid.

[stactum]

Hey guys, would you explain the "slipping sensation" that you are talking about a little more in detail?

I've started noticing weird behavior of my steering and I wonder if it's the same and I should talk to my dealer.

1. Steering not being smooth
The sensation I have is that it's like there is 3 position left | center | right and it's locking to each one; and it like falls when in dead center. Moving wheel left or right takes time for car to recognize that it needs to react and it adds too much compensation going left or right. I can feel it at any speed below about 60mph. In both modes Comfort and Dynamic, however in Comfort it is pronounced even more.

2. Steering feels disconnected for a moment
Usually at higher speeds and mostly in Comfort during slight turns (usually on hwy) it like floats for a moment and then reconnects so I can feel it. Haven't been noticing it in Dynamic, and it's not that I feel it all the time, but when I do (usually at higher speeds) I am ready to shit my pants from that sensation :)

[thedollardoctor]

Hey guys, would you explain the "slipping sensation" that you are talking about a little more in detail?

I've started noticing weird behavior of my steering and I wonder if it's the same and I should talk to my dealer.

1. Steering not being smooth
The sensation I have is that it's like there is 3 position left | center | right and it's locking to each one; and it like falls when in dead center. Moving wheel left or right takes time for car to recognize that it needs to react and it adds too much compensation going left or right. I can feel it at any speed below about 60mph. In both modes Comfort and Dynamic, however in Comfort it is pronounced even more.

2. Steering feels disconnected for a moment
Usually at higher speeds and mostly in Dynamic during slight turns (usually on hwy) it like floats for a moment and then reconnects so I can feel it. Haven't been noticing it in Dynamic, and it's not that I feel it all the time, but when I do (usually at higher speeds) I am ready to shit my pants from that sensation :)

Yep! That's the issue! Take it to the dealer and have them call Audi. Time to replace your rack. Like I said, I think there are many many many more of these out there.

[Maltitol]

Hey guys, would you explain the "slipping sensation" that you are talking about a little more in detail?

I've started noticing weird behavior of my steering and I wonder if it's the same and I should talk to my dealer.

1. Steering not being smooth
The sensation I have is that it's like there is 3 position left | center | right and it's locking to each one; and it like falls when in dead center. Moving wheel left or right takes time for car to recognize that it needs to react and it adds too much compensation going left or right. I can feel it at any speed below about 60mph. In both modes Comfort and Dynamic, however in Comfort it is pronounced even more.

2. Steering feels disconnected for a moment
Usually at higher speeds and mostly in Dynamic during slight turns (usually on hwy) it like floats for a moment and then reconnects so I can feel it. Haven't been noticing it in Dynamic, and it's not that I feel it all the time, but when I do (usually at higher speeds) I am ready to shit my pants from that sensation :)

I had the first issue you talked about for the first time today. I had seen this thread in the past hoping I wouldn't have this issue, but I guess I was wrong. I was driving slow on city streets, and I correct it by switching drive modes. Dynamic/auto/comfort, it happened in auto mode. I guess I'll have to report it to the dealer too.

Side note, anyone notice if this happens in a certain drive mode? Auto/comfort/dynamic?

[thedollardoctor]

Most prevalent in Comfort mode, but will "pop up" in any mode. Also most prevalent at higher speeds, but will show up at any speed as well.

Mine initially popped up at around 1,000 miles, then went away for the next couple thousand miles, then came back REALLY bad, then went away again.

[Franky_d]

Ryan,
Loaner update: called in and told them a VW CC in exchange for my S4 wasn't doing it for me and asked what else I could get. An A4 and a Q5 were turned in this afternoon. Heading back to swap out this VW for an Audi :-)

In Denmark we do not get any loaner for free..... :(

[Bclippard]

how does the steering feel after getting it fixed?
is it precise and confident?
and how do you like it compared to the hydraulic steering system?

I never drove the hydraulic steering system so I cant compare. The steering feels like it did when it was new which to me was precise but I was coming from a Explorer!

[stactum]

I had the first issue you talked about for the first time today. I had seen this thread in the past hoping I wouldn't have this issue, but I guess I was wrong. I was driving slow on city streets, and I correct it by switching drive modes. Dynamic/auto/comfort, it happened in auto mode. I guess I'll have to report it to the dealer too.

Side note, anyone notice if this happens in a certain drive mode? Auto/comfort/dynamic?

I feel it appears more in Comfort. Dynamic is actually not bad generally speaking.

I found Auto mode being absolutely terrible imho: I feel neither steering nor throttle response are ever in the right mode during my driving. I tested Auto on the hwy where sometimes I go with the flow (70-75mph), but sometimes need to do a quick pass (80-85mph) and while throttle can recognize what I am doing and reacts with the slight delay, Steering feels light and soft at 85mph which is kind of scary and then stiffens when I am back to 75. So I try to avoid Auto mode at all costs.

There is a trick to set DSG throttle to Sport while you are in Comfort (and not in manual shift): Just push down Gear Selector once and your D will change to S. The same way by moving it down you can switch from S to D. You can do the same to exit from Paddle Shifting.

[msngrey13s4]

Just want to add myself to the group that are experiencing the steering issue. I picked up my car exactly 2 weeks ago and noticed the described feeling on the 2nd day driving the car late at night on a long stretch of freeway. I felt that the car sways a lot in a straight and I need to correct the car constantly. On the freeway I noticed that I'm constantly going left.....right.....left.....right...., I understand that we do that under normal condition on a straight but the experience is really different from driving my past cars. It's like you are going straight, then you feel the car going left, so you turn the steering wheel right to correct, but the car doesn't response to our input until you steer a decent amount then it starts to go right, then you think you are going straight but the car starts to go right, so now you start to correct by steering left with the same lack of immediate response and more than normal turning of the wheel, then the whole cycle repeats.

I discovered Audizine when I was searching in google for people that has the same experience. Glad to know that Bliccpard's issue was resolved and hopefully dollardoctor's too. Good to know that the issue wasn't just in my head and there seems to be a solution to it. Glad to see that Audizine members are active and helpful to each other.

I have a normal 8.5 S4 with no ADS. Wish I did more research. Upon picking up the car I was shocked at how light the steering is in the S4. I love everything about this car but I hate the steering. For a car built so solid like a vault, the steering feels overboosted and numb. I didn't pick up the lightness during the test drive as it was just one of those go around the block routine. I came from a 2010 GTI, and just realized how much I missed the heaving steering feel on that car. On top of the lightness, the imprecise steering issue just makes driving the S4 unenjoyable. I find myself fatigued after driving the S4 mainly because I need to be really alert while driving it, constantly correcting the car. Wished Audi have tuned the base S4 steering more like a sports car and not something that you have to unlock with an option.

[Jones2012s4]

This really sounds like a disappointment for Audis first implementation of electric steering in the S4. Working at an auto assembly plant in North America as an engineer I tend to stay away from anything that is a first attempt. I bought a 2012 because it was the 3rd and final iteration of the B8 S4 and I am glad I did my research, I have had zero issues with my mechatronic, love my hydraulic steering, love my engine with working water pump and thermostat, love my non-leaking rear sport differential,love everything about my car.

I will never buy the first iteration or release of any vehicle, no matter how bad I want it. If its good, there will always be a 2nd, 3rd, and so on model years to follow. This may be somewhat of an overly cautious frame of thought but it is because of issues like this, seeing, working and developing vehicles that I think like this.

I hope this all gets resolved properly. Good luck!!!

[13S4]

I've honestly never noticed any of the floaty feelings noted here. I had my sway bars & end links put on the second day I had the car, but didn't notice it before nor after. I also haven't had the steering update done either?

[mattchat]

I find that Dynamic mode with ADS is not sooo bad. I've hardly driven in comfort but was in my first winter and I do notice the floaty steering. I just had the Alu Kreuz and Eurocode sways and endlinks installed and even though there is a ton of snow on the ground it is greatly noticeable. I need an alignment becuase I put H&R OE sport springs on at the same time and my steering is slightly off centre so even with this it is much better. I've had the TSB done as well so it will improve with time as they update the software.

[thedollardoctor]

@ msngrey13s4 sorry to hear you are having this issue, it IS a big disappointment for sure and I can completely sympathize with your feelings about the steering overall being too light for a sports car. I am driving a 2013 Q5 with no ADS and honestly feel like the steering in this thing is WAY better than the S....wtf?! I'm hoping that it just because it actually works right and once mine is fixed it will feel this good as well. Guess I'll find out.

A note for all experiencing this issue: when my tech called Audi tech support, the question they asked him was "Does it feel "notchy" across 12 o'clock while steering". My tech said "yes" (even though he never even drove my car, just went based on my descriptions) and they said "Replace the steering rack". So evidently, Audi is VERY aware of this issue and is replacing A LOT of these! Mine is on back order for weeks. I suggest anyone having this issue go to their dealership and have them call Audi tech support and report notchy steering feel and get in line for the repair.

My tech said its likely there will be a TSB or recall for this in a lot of 2013 models.

[thedollardoctor]

This really sounds like a disappointment for Audis first implementation of electric steering in the S4. Working at an auto assembly plant in North America as an engineer I tend to stay away from anything that is a first attempt. I bought a 2012 because it was the 3rd and final iteration of the B8 S4 and I am glad I did my research, I have had zero issues with my mechatronic, love my hydraulic steering, love my engine with working water pump and thermostat, love my non-leaking rear sport differential,love everything about my car.

I will never buy the first iteration or release of any vehicle, no matter how bad I want it. If its good, there will always be a 2nd, 3rd, and so on model years to follow. This may be somewhat of an overly cautious frame of thought but it is because of issues like this, seeing, working and developing vehicles that I think like this.

I hope this all gets resolved properly. Good luck!!!

I wish I had your patience man, I just can't wait for new models to become more refined. I have ALWAYS been an early adopter. iPhones, any tech, cars, etx. I know you are RIGHT in your strategy, I just don't have the patience for that. I'm a dumb guinea pig I guess :-)

[Jones2012s4]

I wish I had your patience man, I just can't wait for new models to become more refined. I have ALWAYS been an early adopter. iPhones, any tech, cars, etx. I know you are RIGHT in your strategy, I just don't have the patience for that. I'm a dumb guinea pig I guess :-)

I commend you, phones and other items I jump all over, their not as major as a car however, and hey, that's what warranties are for right? [;)]

[autoluxe]

Every once and a while I notice a slight "jittery" feeling or at least thats how i take it. Almost like it spastically fights me when driving like it wants to pause every half second or so. its hard to describe. its happened two or three times but like I said, its hard to describe. Ill see if it does it again tonight.

[thirddecay]

@ msngrey13s4 sorry to hear you are having this issue, it IS a big disappointment for sure and I can completely sympathize with your feelings about the steering overall being too light for a sports car. I am driving a 2013 Q5 with no ADS and honestly feel like the steering in this thing is WAY better than the S....wtf?! I'm hoping that it just because it actually works right and once mine is fixed it will feel this good as well. Guess I'll find out.

A note for all experiencing this issue: when my tech called Audi tech support, the question they asked him was "Does it feel "notchy" across 12 o'clock while steering". My tech said "yes" (even though he never even drove my car, just went based on my descriptions) and they said "Replace the steering rack". So evidently, Audi is VERY aware of this issue and is replacing A LOT of these! Mine is on back order for weeks. I suggest anyone having this issue go to their dealership and have them call Audi tech support and report notchy steering feel and get in line for the repair.

My tech said its likely there will be a TSB or recall for this in a lot of 2013 models.

thats some good news. the "notchy" feeling across 12 describes my problem exactly so it looks like ill be linking them to this thread for a replacement rack.

thanks for relaying that info

[thedollardoctor]

thats some good news. the "notchy" feeling across 12 describes my problem exactly so it looks like ill be linking them to this thread for a replacement rack.

thanks for relaying that info

My pleasure man, report back with how it goes. Good luck to you!

[msngrey13s4]

@jones2012s4 - thanks for the solid advice, especially coming from someone that's in the auto industry. Definitely will be in my mind when I'm looking for my next car. On a side note, I guess I got lucky when I picked up my 2010 GTI. It was a first model year release. Aside from a slight creak on the passenger side door panel (which was fixed during the 200 mile check up provided by the dealer), I had absolute zero problem with that car. It was my first german car too, so I was alittle timid going in as VW's reliability rating didn't rank favorably from what I gather. I gotta say, even after 3 years, that car runs like it was when I first picked it up. To my surprise the interior held up nicely too, no creaks, rattle, or loose panel. It was a great car. Also made me trust vehicles from the Volkswagen group, hence the S4.

@dollardoctor - its relieving to know that someone out there agrees with me in regards to the S4's steering lightness. I was venting to my wife about the issue the other day and she just says that I'm too picky..LOL. Glad to hear that the electromagnetic steering is feeling right in the normal Q5. Hopefully this is just a small hiccup with Audi's assembly/implementation and our cars will be fixed. Thanks again for sharing your experience and helping those that have this issue.

[stactum]

How many people talked to their dealers about the issue? Are they generally aware or acting like they have no idea? I wonder how long it will take Audi to realize the problem and release fix for it.

I will give my dealer a call tomorrow, but I don't think just a simple steering rack switch will fix it.

[thedollardoctor]

According to my Tech, AUDI TECH is VERY aware of this issue. That doesn't necessarily mean YOUR DEALER is though. I have suggested people call their dealers with reports of "a notchy feeling across 12 o'clock in the steering wheel" and ask that they call Audi tech about it.

So far bclippard has had his rack replaced and has reported that thus far that the steering issue is fixed. I currently await my part to be replaced which is on back order (which also suggests that this part IS the fix, and Audi has been doing a lot of them)

[Vi112]

BTW, do you have "Dynamic Steering" option, or not? This is about variable steering ratio. I wonder if this defect is somehow related with this option.

[thedollardoctor]

I have ADS so yes I have all options. This issue is WAY worse in "comfort" steering mode than "dynamic". All others have stated the same thing

[Franky_d]

BTW, do you have "Dynamic Steering" option, or not? This is about variable steering ratio. I wonder if this defect is somehow related with this option.

According to my local dealer, if the car has this defect it will show in all modes of Audi Drive Select with or without Dynamic steering.
I felt that it is less noticeable in AUTO mode of the ADS, or if you have EFFICIENCY mode - even less in EFFICIENCY mode. I am afraid folks with S4s though won't have EFFICIENCY. [>_<]

[thedollardoctor]

According to my local dealer, if the car has this defect it will show in all modes of Audi Drive Select with or without Dynamic steering.
I felt that it is less noticeable in AUTO mode of the ADS, or if you have EFFICIENCY mode - even less in EFFICIENCY mode. I am afraid folks with S4s though won't have EFFICIENCY. [&gt;_&lt;]

I've had it show up in ALL modes, and have read another poster in this thread say his was the worst in Auto....... So obviously, whatever the issue is, it F's up steering in any mode with ADS or not. Like I said, I was driving a 2013 loaner A4 with no ADS and it was AWFUL! Steering was ALL jacked up and the car only had 2,500 miles. It's been nice to drive the 2013 Q5 I have now as the steering is VERY confident at all speeds. I hope my S steers like this when it's finally fixed

[laakness]

I have to wait for a little less windy day but I am noticing the swaying within a lane. I feel like people think I'm drunk. I never have veered that much in my life.

I have 450 miles on the car and drove on the highway for about an hour and a half today.

[JohnEnglish]

how does the steering feel after getting it fixed?
is it precise and confident?
and how do you like it compared to the hydraulic steering system?When I originally test drove the S4 (back in March) the dealer didn't have any 2013 models yet so I test drove a 2012 model. The steering on my 2013 feels just like the steering on the 2012 and feels like the "regular" hydraulic steering I've had on other cars. My parents have a 2013 Acura RDX and it has an electromechanical steering system and I've experienced similiar "notchiness" and "floating sensations" as described here but my S4 doesn't have any of those issues.

[mattchat]

Anyone notice that the steering seems off center as well. I've read another post where someone's steering wheel was slightly turned to the left when going in a straight line....I'm in this boat as well. After getting the springs installed its a little bit worse so I am waiting on an alignment. Anyone else here notice their steering alignment in additon to the notchiness?

[13S4]

Mines a little off center too. I think my springs settled more since I had them installed. I will be doing an alignment.

[stactum]

Ok, I called my dealer this morning. He said they are aware of the issue on 2013 S4 in Germany, but there is no permanent fix yet. There are some intermediate steps dealership can do to resolve it temporarily so I will bring my car in on Wednesday. He basically said: "we have to begin the process".
Now I wonder how dealer will react on Eurocode sways and Alu Kreuz.

I guess it's a good thing Audi knows about it.


Also, my steering isn't off-center, so I can't complain there.

[thedollardoctor]

That's interesting. It appears that replacing the rack has fixed bclippard's car thus it would seem that IS the "fix", though maybe in Germany they are approaching it differently and starting by only replacing certain sensors? I will be interested to see what they specifically repair on your car, please keep us informed.

In addition, I'll be interested to hear what they say about your mods. My tech and dealership didn't even bat an eye about it and the tech even said those mods are like a gnat on an elephants back to the electric steering assist on the S, he said in fact the system would only "maximize" the potential of those mods more, not be adversely affected by them.

[mattchat]

In addition, I'll be interested to hear what they say about your mods. My tech and dealership didn't even bat an eye about it and the tech even said those mods are like a gnat on an elephants back to the electric steering assist on the S, he said in fact the system would only "maximize" the potential of those mods more, not be adversely affected by them.

Amen to that.....cudos to your techs in admitting real value!!

[Kandiru]

Anyone notice that the steering seems off center as well. I've read another post where someone's steering wheel was slightly turned to the left when going in a straight line....I'm in this boat as well. After getting the springs installed its a little bit worse so I am waiting on an alignment. Anyone else here notice their steering alignment in additon to the notchiness?

I had a weird issue after the R8 V10 steering wheel self install in my B8 (dumb internist here, took me a while). It appeared that no matter how i kep moving the wheel on the rack car kept off center, that is until i realized the clockspring plasticky thingy under it had to be perfectly aligned with the connector hole edges, appararently its position dictates center position.

[kooltechie]

Taking my car in this morning, I'll report back with any new info as soon as I have it!


JR, any updates?

I had the worst experience with the steering this morning – the notchiness in steering was the most severe and it kept me nervous until I arrived at work.
I drove the car again at lunch, but the notchiness was not as severe.
It’s quite annoying to wonder if the notchiness would be severe each time I start the car [facepalm]
I’ve scheduled an appointment to drop off my car this Saturday and, hopefully, the notchiness will be severe enough for them to feel.

anyone with their steering rack replaced, please update us with the result!
TIA [up]

[Stereodude]

My car's notchiness comes and goes. There's some days where it's horrible, and other days it's nonexistent. I complained to the dealer when I got my 5k mile oil change, but I think it went in one ear and out the other.

I think I'm going to start taking my car in on a regular basis and start making a pain of myself about it.

[stactum]

Dropped off my car this morning (asked for Q5 as loner).

The dealer said they've heard about issues with steering, but haven't heard of a fix yet. Said he might keep the car for a few days and he documented everything with Audi so they may send a rep to drive the car and see what's wrong. I guess, I have to wait and see.

I did mention about drivetrain stabilizer that I have, but he hasn't paid too much attention to it.

Will update as soon as I hear something.

[laakness]

Hey stactum, I'm noticing a bit as well. Do we use the same dealer or are you in Wausau or Milwaukee?

[kooltechie]

Dropped off my car this morning (asked for Q5 as loner).

The dealer said they've heard about issues with steering, but haven't heard of a fix yet. Said he might keep the car for a few days and he documented everything with Audi so they may send a rep to drive the car and see what's wrong. I guess, I have to wait and see.

I did mention about drivetrain stabilizer that I have, but he hasn't paid too much attention to it.

Will update as soon as I hear something.

if this is true, Audi will have to deal with a ton of 2013 S4/S5 owners in court.
they will hear from my lawyer for sure if they fail to fix it for good at the first repair attempt [mad]

[thedollardoctor]

JR, any updates?

I had the worst experience with the steering this morning – the notchiness in steering was the most severe and it kept me nervous until I arrived at work.
I drove the car again at lunch, but the notchiness was not as severe.
It’s quite annoying to wonder if the notchiness would be severe each time I start the car [facepalm]
I’ve scheduled an appointment to drop off my car this Saturday and, hopefully, the notchiness will be severe enough for them to feel.

anyone with their steering rack replaced, please update us with the result!
TIA [up]

That sucks man!! I had that happen once to mine as well after I hadn't driven it for a weekend and the weather was really cold, it was notchy ALL OVER the place! That's what finally made me call my dealership.

As for an update, I just spoke with my dealer and they said they still don't have ANY ETA, just know that the part is on backorder in Germany. I will be picking my S4 back up tomorrow as turning my Q5 loaner in (mostly because I want to swap out my APR Stage I and II intake for the new Roc-Euro I got, but also because I miss driving it). Then will wait till the part comes in and take it back to the dealer to be installed. If the steering starts to really bug me again ill swap it back in for another loaner. But for now, I want my car back.

As far as people saying there isn't a known fix at this point, I guess that could be true, though I doubt they would go to the trouble to swap out an entire steering rack if they didn't think it would fix the issue. The only person who I know for sure who has had this done is bclippard, and SO FAR, he has reported that this fixed the issue. I will certainly report back with my thoughts once mine has been replace as well.

I can promise you this, if it DOESN'T fix the issue, I'll continue to fight for a repair and I feel very fortunate that I have a tech at my dealer that knows his stuff and will continue to work with me on making sure this is resolved to my satisfaction.

[stactum]

Hey stactum, I'm noticing a bit as well. Do we use the same dealer or are you in Wausau or Milwaukee?

I dropped it at International Audi in Milwaukee.

[stactum]

I can promise you this, if it DOESN'T fix the issue, I'll continue to fight for a repair and I feel very fortunate that I have a tech at my dealer that knows his stuff and will continue to work with me on making sure this is resolved to my satisfaction.

I completely agree with you; I am still waiting for the call to know what's wrong, but in case they say it's all good - I won't just leave it. I don't think it's how it should be.
I do believe it's a design flaw rather than something isn't functioning as it should, so my guess Audi really gotta redesign steering rack to make sure it's good.
On the same note, on my wife's X3 also electromechanical steering and it's sharp and precise, can't complain there. If Audi's was like that with the weight it has in Dynamic - it would be frickin AWESOME!

My dealer said that "knowing Audi, if they realize the problem, they are usually very quick at fixing it". And ass I mention before dealer also said Audi will likely to send field rep to take a look at the issue and drive the car if they can't figure out what's wrong at the dealership.

I did ask for a few possible solutions but didn't get the answer:
- disable electro steering assist
- if it would be possible to install 2012 mechanical steering rack

[thedollardoctor]

I will say that after driving this 2013 Q5 without ADS but with electronic steering assists that it is NOT the electric steering that is the issue in and of itself. This car has GREAT steering! Very confident and sturdy and reliable. I think once issues are fixed, steering will be very good in our cars. At least I'm HOPING!

[Leor604]

I completely agree with you; I am still waiting for the call to know what's wrong, but in case they say it's all good - I won't just leave it. I don't think it's how it should be.
I do believe it's a design flaw rather than something isn't functioning as it should, so my guess Audi really gotta redesign steering rack to make sure it's good.
On the same note, on my wife's X3 also electromechanical steering and it's sharp and precise, can't complain there. If Audi's was like that with the weight it has in Dynamic - it would be frickin AWESOME!

My dealer said that "knowing Audi, if they realize the problem, they are usually very quick at fixing it". And ass I mention before dealer also said Audi will likely to send field rep to take a look at the issue and drive the car if they can't figure out what's wrong at the dealership.

I did ask for a few possible solutions but didn't get the answer:
- disable electro steering assist
- if it would be possible to install 2012 mechanical steering rack



Hmm, disabling EPS would not be an option. Steering would be VERY heavy.

Retrofit is not impossible, but would be very difficult. EPS does not have pump, reservoir, hoses, cooler, etc. so these would all have to be fitted and I imagine there would be programming issues as well.

Also, I think that anyone who has the Alu Kreuz for B8.5 would have to remove it and reinstall the factory brace before Audi would do the work, and then they would have to get an "old style" B8 AK as I believe the change in the steering is what necessitated the design change.

All in all, this would be a nightmare and I doubt this will be the solution that Audi comes up with. A company with the engineering might of VAG will surely get this fixed. EPS apparently works well in other vehicles, there is just something wacky in the S4. Has anybody been follow the A4 forum to see if they are having the same issue???

[Stereodude]

I just want to know how they missed the freakin' notch in all their prototype and pre-production cars?

[Mrads]

I hadn't experienced the issue discussed in this thread and I didn't really understand the symptoms that were being described. But now after approx 1100km on my '13 S4 I know exactly what you are talking about. "Notchy" is a perfect description of the symptom. It is a very strange sensation and a bit disconcerting depending on the speeds you are traveling. My issue is most obvious between 50 and 70 KPH.

Did the OP actually get the issue resolved?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Jones2012s4]

I will say that after driving this 2013 Q5 without ADS but with electronic steering assists that it is NOT the electric steering....

Not sure how you can come to this conclusion from a completely separate vehicle? When we know for FACT the only thing changed from B8 to B8.5 as far as steering and suspension goes at the front of the car was the electric steering. This is way more evidence that it IS in fact something to do with the new electric steering design and engineering, than the "fact" the Q5 you are driving is fine.

Not trying to come off argumentative just using logic. The problem is 100% with the new electric steering design/engineering.

B8's with hydraulic steering having problems similiar to problems stated in this thread = 0
B8.5's with new electric steering having problems mentioned in this thread = many(plus other models)

Logic would suggest the problem lies with......

After reading your post again I noticed you mentioned "in and of itself".

My apologies, this is why I use the phrase design/engineering referring to the package as a whole.

[thedollardoctor]

Not sure how you can come to this conclusion from a completely separate vehicle? When we know for FACT the only thing changed from B8 to B8.5 as far as steering and suspension goes at the front of the car was the electric steering. This is way more evidence that it IS in fact something to do with the new electric steering design and engineering, than the "fact" the Q5 you are driving is fine.

Not trying to come off argumentative just using logic. The problem is 100% with the new electric steering design/engineering.

B8's with hydraulic steering having problems similiar to problems stated in this thread = 0
B8.5's with new electric steering having problems mentioned in this thread = many(plus other models)

Logic would suggest the problem lies with......

After reading your post again I noticed you mentioned "in and of itself".

My apologies, this is why I use the phrase design/engineering referring to the package as a whole.

It's all good. I may not have made my point clearly enough. What I meant was that I don't the electric steering is TOTAL crap, if/when working properly (like in the Q5 I drove), it actually feels very nice and sturdy. But I DO and HAVE always felt the issue we are all having IS related to the electric steering!

Does that make sense?

[thedollardoctor]

I hadn't experienced the issue discussed in this thread and I didn't really understand the symptoms that were being described. But now after approx 1100km on my '13 S4 I know exactly what you are talking about. "Notchy" is a perfect description of the symptom. It is a very strange sensation and a bit disconcerting depending on the speeds you are traveling. My issue is most obvious between 50 and 70 KPH.

Did the OP actually get the issue resolved?


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Yes, the OP's issue was resolved by getting his steering rack swapped out for a new one. This part is also going to be replaced under warranty by my dealership, however the part is on backorder currently.

[thedollardoctor]

Also, I think that anyone who has the Alu Kreuz for B8.5 would have to remove it and reinstall the factory brace before Audi would do the work, and then they would have to get an "old style" B8 AK as I believe the change in the steering is what necessitated the design change.

Has anybody been follow the A4 forum to see if they are having the same issue???

Actually I have the AK as well as Sways and End Links and my dealer is replacing the steering rack under warranty. My tech said those mods would have NO adverse effect on that system. In fact he stated "Those mods are like a gnat on an elephants back to the electric steering"

Not sure about A4 forum, haven't checked, but the 2013 A4 loaner they initially gave me had this problem WAY worse than my S!!

[Bclippard]

Did the OP actually get the issue resolved?



Yes my problem has been fixed I have logged 500+ miles and no issues since the replacement.

[laakness]

I should call my dealer and talk to them about this. It is definitely 'notchy' when on the highway. I will get a gust of wind or the car starts to track one way and go to correct it from dead center and it's like feedback disappears for a quick moment and then kicks in again. Does not make me feel very confident.

[Jones2012s4]

It's all good. I may not have made my point clearly enough. What I meant was that I don't the electric steering is TOTAL crap, if/when working properly (like in the Q5 I drove), it actually feels very nice and sturdy. But I DO and HAVE always felt the issue we are all having IS related to the electric steering!

Does that make sense?


Check! ;)

[kooltechie]

I should call my dealer and talk to them about this. It is definitely 'notchy' when on the highway. I will get a gust of wind or the car starts to track one way and go to correct it from dead center and it's like feedback disappears for a quick moment and then kicks in again. Does not make me feel very confident.

seriously....the electromechanical steering issue seems to be widespread among 2013 A/S 4,5 models.
Audi will not only lose money on fixing the issue, but also their reputation.
I'll be thinking twice about buying an Audi from now on [down]

[Leor604]

Actually I have the AK as well as Sways and End Links and my dealer is replacing the steering rack under warranty. My tech said those mods would have NO adverse effect on that system. In fact he stated "Those mods are like a gnat on an elephants back to the electric steering"

Please read the whole post. OP asked if it was possible to retrofit hydraulic steering. I replied that, in order to do that, you would likely have to swap back to the B8 AK. My post had nothing to do with adverse affects or gnats on elephants asses [;)]

[thedollardoctor]

I should call my dealer and talk to them about this. It is definitely 'notchy' when on the highway. I will get a gust of wind or the car starts to track one way and go to correct it from dead center and it's like feedback disappears for a quick moment and then kicks in again. Does not make me feel very confident.

You are describing the EXACT issue I and many others are having. Definetly call your dealer and have them call Audi about a "notchy" steering sensation across 12 o'clock in the steering wheel. Audi is acutely aware of this issue and the more of us that call the better!

[thedollardoctor]

Please read the whole post. OP asked if it was possible to retrofit hydraulic steering. I replied that, in order to do that, you would likely have to swap back to the B8 AK. My post had nothing to do with adverse affects or gnats on elephants asses [;)]

Haha, gotcha man, actually re-read it twice to see if that was ONLY referring to a retrofit, but still didn't seem like that was your point. My bad :-) guess I was too focused on elephants asses, doh!

[thedollardoctor]

seriously....the electromechanical steering issue seems to be widespread among 2013 A/S 4,5 models.
Audi will not only lose money on fixing the issue, but also their reputation.
I'll be thinking twice about buying an Audi from now on [down]

Totally understand your frustration man. I'm guessing Audi is currently doing all they can to avoid a full on recall and all the bad press that would come with that! It IS a safety issue afterall!

[Nuccadoc]

at least you guys down in the US of A have people looking into it. I was told last night when I inquired about it (was on other business trying to find out why my car hadn't been ordered yet and put a deposit a few months ago), and the guy tells me, "well, the cars are different in the US than up here, we won't be having any of those problems here!" Wow! I believe *some* guys have majors in BS making-up skills, not all, but some should start a school! I mean, if you don't know about it, you could mention that you hadn't heard anything yet, I'll keep my ears open, but US vs Canadian cars different? Options yes, but I can't see steering racks, sensors, or what have you being different!

[Mrads]

I mean, if you don't know about it, you could mention that you hadn't heard anything yet, I'll keep my ears open, but US vs Canadian cars different? Options yes, but I can't see steering racks, sensors, or what have you being different!

My S is Canadian and it is having the symptoms described by many of the others. I am going to talk to my dealer tomorrow (in Vancouver) so I'll see what they have to say.


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[Leor604]

at least you guys down in the US of A have people looking into it. I was told last night when I inquired about it (was on other business trying to find out why my car hadn't been ordered yet and put a deposit a few months ago), and the guy tells me, "well, the cars are different in the US than up here, we won't be having any of those problems here!" Wow! I believe *some* guys have majors in BS making-up skills, not all, but some should start a school! I mean, if you don't know about it, you could mention that you hadn't heard anything yet, I'll keep my ears open, but US vs Canadian cars different? Options yes, but I can't see steering racks, sensors, or what have you being different!

I hate being fed a plate of bullshit!!! I would call the moron on it and ask him to explain, show some tech info or documentation. *When* he can't come up with anything, I would demand my deposit back and run from that dealer. Guy deserves to lose a sale.

There are/were minor differences, usually in options. Canadian Premium (same as US Prestige) came with adaptive headlights and headlight washers which were not available in the US at the time, but major components are going to be the same.

[Leor604]

Hope they get this resolved. A friend is looking at getting a '13 A4 and I'm not comfortable recommending it right now.

[Tweakophyte]

Thank you for keeping us up-to-date on this issue. I'm sure it's been fristrating. I've been on the fence between a B8 and B8.5. Call me paranoid, but the electronic steering has been a concern. I hope Audi gets a fix going soon.

[kooltechie]

Went to the dealer this morning, but wasn't able to reproduce the issue with the shop foreman driving my S5.
What's strange and frustrating is that the steering behavior started to feel normal since 2 days ago - as the cold weather disappeared and the temp rose again in so cal.
I've experienced the steering issue almost daily since I took delivery of my car back in early October last year and never thought the temp could contribute to the issue, but it was more apparent and worse while the temp was in the 30's - 40's during the cold weather peroid in the past few weeks.
Maybe it's a coincidence, but frustrating nonetheless.

Yesterday was the first time the steering felt normal and straight, and I drove my car with one hand on the steering wheel for the first time on the freeway.
It still feels normal today and I felt like an idiot explaining the issue to the service advisor and the shop foreman without being able to duplicate the issue.
The folks at Pacific Audi have been awesome and listened to what I had to say with respect - I recommend them to anyone in need of a service on their cars.
I'll be returning to them on Monday and hopefully the issue will surface again.
[facepalm]

[afig367]

I've experienced the steering issue more often in cold weather as well (along with a suspension issue that pops up as well). Both are far less common when the temperature rises or when the car warms up. I remember my grandfather telling me 20 years ago, when I was a kid, that Audis weren't very good in cold weather. More and more each day, I think he was on to something.



Went to the dealer this morning, but wasn't able to reproduce the issue with the shop foreman driving my S5.
What's strange and frustrating is that the steering behavior started to feel normal since 2 days ago - as the cold weather disappeared and the temp rose again in so cal.
I've experienced the steering issue almost daily since I took delivery of my car back in early October last year and never thought the temp could contribute to the issue, but it was more apparent and worse while the temp was in the 30's - 40's during the cold weather peroid in the past few weeks.
Maybe it's a coincidence, but frustrating nonetheless.

Yesterday was the first time the steering felt normal and straight, and I drove my car with one hand on the steering wheel for the first time on the freeway.
It still feels normal today and I felt like an idiot explaining the issue to the service advisor and the shop foreman without being able to duplicate the issue.
The folks at Pacific Audi have been awesome and listened to what I had to say with respect - I recommend them to anyone in need of a service on their cars.
I'll be returning to them on Monday and hopefully the issue will surface again.
[facepalm]

[BzzzBom]

Went to the dealer this morning, but wasn't able to reproduce the issue with the shop foreman driving my S5.
What's strange and frustrating is that the steering behavior started to feel normal since 2 days ago - as the cold weather disappeared and the temp rose again in so cal.
I've experienced the steering issue almost daily since I took delivery of my car back in early October last year and never thought the temp could contribute to the issue, but it was more apparent and worse while the temp was in the 30's - 40's during the cold weather peroid in the past few weeks.
Maybe it's a coincidence, but frustrating nonetheless.

Yesterday was the first time the steering felt normal and straight, and I drove my car with one hand on the steering wheel for the first time on the freeway.
It still feels normal today and I felt like an idiot explaining the issue to the service advisor and the shop foreman without being able to duplicate the issue.
The folks at Pacific Audi have been awesome and listened to what I had to say with respect - I recommend them to
anyone in need of a service on their cars.
I'll be returning to them on Monday and hopefully the issue will surface again.
[facepalm]

Same issue on my 2013. Same location - L.A. Same dealership -- PM sent

[msngrey13s4]

Same issue on my 2013. Same location - L.A. Same dealership -- PM sent
Same here. Same location. Same dealership in Torrance, CA. Just had my car for about 3 weeks. Noted issue since 2nd day of driving. Haven't brought it to the dealer yet since a definitive fix is not yet confirmed. Waiting to see how the repairs go for others that have already reported the problem. Good to hear that the service guys at the location seem to be cool.

[kooltechie]

Same here. Same location. Same dealership in Torrance, CA. Just had my car for about 3 weeks. Noted issue since 2nd day of driving. Haven't brought it to the dealer yet since a definitive fix is not yet confirmed. Waiting to see how the repairs go for others that have already reported the problem. Good to hear that the service guys at the location seem to be cool.

I had been waiting for others' repair results as well, but did not want to wait too long for the backordered parts so I went to the dealer.
I asked the service advisor and the shop foreman if they knew/had heard about the steering issue and their answer was no - it appeared I was the first and only one who reported such issue to them.
We need to let them know there are many 2013 S4/5 owners with the issue so that they can report more cases/complaints to Audi, IMO.

[laakness]

It's probably best if everyone with the issue reportit and make the dealers call Audi tech. I'd rather have them get some back ordered parts and acknowledge the issue.