Bone Stock 2012 S4 at Road Atlanta

[GeoJoe]

I joined the guys at MVP Track Time this past weekend at Road Atlanta for two days of track fun. What an outstanding experience and my S4 exceeded my expectations, even without a single modification. I've had my Audi for about 6 months, got it certified pre-owned and figured it was time to experience what this car was really made to do. This is a B8, 6MT with sports diff and ADS.

Having never experienced a track day before, I simply paid my track fees, got some insurance, bought a helmet headed to the track. I also read countless threads on tracking the S4, with the concerns being mostly about the brakes and tires. Even though these were the two areas in which things could have been better, the S4 is very capable on the track coming straight off the showroom floor.

I ran 6 20 minute sessions over the two days. The first session was a simple follow the leader exercise. No passing, just stay on the instructor's bumper in front of you and watch his lines. No one else was in the car with me and this allowed me to concentrate on the leader. The first lap was painfully slow, with each lap getting faster and faster. By the last lap the track and tires were getting warmed up and speeds finally got up to about 100mph on the back straightaway.

The second session I signed up for an in-car instructor and he had a radio for helmet to helmet communication. In only 20min I learned a ton. When to brake, how much, when to shift, when to stomp on it, when to feather the throttle, etc. Hearing the instructor's experience with the track and following his guidance made a ton of difference and that stuck with me all weekend. However, he also was a bit too much at times (BRAKE!....now GO!!!) and this added stress to the experience, so I opted out of any more instructors and found it better to try to hang with one in the cars in front of me. I think a good combination of in-car and follow-the-car instruction is beneficial.

All passing in this novice class is with a "point-by" where you have to stick your hand out the window to let the guy behind you go by. The first couple of sessions I was letting a lot of cars by me. By the end of the weekend I was the one getting the fingers.

For the rest of the weekend, I found myself more confident in the S4 in each session. By the last run I was topping 130mph on the backstretch. This car can hang with plenty of others out there, and smokes right by most of them in my novice class. I kept setting my sights on tracking down 370Zs, Porsche Caymans, Porsche Carreras, lots of RX7s and RX8s, a few Corvettes, tricked out Miatas, Pontiac G8s and even some M3s and M5s. There was a Ferrari and a Ford GT in my class too, which made things interesting as they come up on your ass quick. Aside from an R8 in the Intermediate group, I was the only Audi.

Back to brakes and tires. So I knew that the brakes could fade quickly and because of this I probably ran at 80% of what this car could do. I tried not to stomp on the brakes at the last minute in fear of boiling the fluid. A few times the ABS kicked in too and that brings it's own pucker-factor when trying to go from 100 to 20 in less than 100 yards. The brakes held up but I could definitely tell that they were fading with harder laps. I bought some Yellowstuff pads so I'll have em ready to go the next track day. I'm also planning on a full fluid flush in the next service.

Here's the most f'd up part - I was running Conti DWS all season tires. What was surprising was how sticky these were, especially in the mornings when the track was cold. As the day progressed the track and tires warmed up and I ended up throwing off some chunks of rubber around the edges, but I figured this would happen. If there was any rain, I would have been the smart guy, but no - all sunshine and 60 degrees. Next time I'll find a set of Pilot SS's.

Today, the S4 is back to my daily driver and brakes, clutch, tires all feel like normal. The versatility of this Audi is outstanding.

Lots of pics below and videos too. Overall, a great experience on a plain, stock S4. Now it's time for some serious upgrades!

http://imageshack.us/a/img109/6664/pb180061.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img525/8435/129mph.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/998/125mph.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/9403/ferrarill.png

The R8 with a new 370Z, which I proceeded to smoke.
http://imageshack.us/a/img717/5348/img7353z.jpg

Tires and brakes after 2 track days...

http://imageshack.us/a/img692/111/img7397cg.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img440/7969/tirey.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz0EeOL1_2E

[A4 Joe]

Great post. I have had a couple of guys at the office pushing me to do track day with them. I have thought my land shark was not really up to the task. After reading your report I will now consider trying the track.

Thx

[GeoJoe]

Great post. I have had a couple of guys at the office pushing me to do track day with them. I have thought my land shark was not really up to the task. After reading your report I will now consider trying the track.

Thx

Thanks and you should do it! Don't get intimidated by all the other cars out there. There's always someone faster than you, unless you're in a GT-R. I got a chance to ride along with my boss and wow, what a rush!

[vwong]

Sounds like you had a lot of fun out there. If I have a way to transport my car around the country, I'd love to run Road Atlanta (and other various tracks).

[vwong]

Great post. I have had a couple of guys at the office pushing me to do track day with them. I have thought my land shark was not really up to the task. After reading your report I will now consider trying the track.

Thx

You should give it a try. The S4 is totally up to the task. Hmm...maybe we, SoCal B8'ers, should set up a track day meet or something. [:D]

[GeoJoe]

Another video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAmwQHjokPg

[chbrook]

Great post! Looks like a lot of fun!

[Leor604]

Well done for your first time!

Throw those Yellowstuffs on and don't forget to upgrade your brake fluid (Motul RBF 600 is very popular) at the same time. PSS's will also make a big difference over the DWS's. If I can make one suggestion on your technique, it would be to try and keep your hands and 9 and 3 on the wheel and don't shuffle hand positions as much. Makes it far easier to know where straight ahead is if things get a little sideways!

For an all-season family sedan, the S4 does pretty damn good, doesn't it?

[GeoJoe]

Well done for your first time!

Throw those Yellowstuffs on and don't forget to upgrade your brake fluid (Motul RBF 600 is very popular) at the same time. PSS's will also make a big difference over the DWS's. If I can make one suggestion on your technique, it would be to try and keep your hands and 9 and 3 on the wheel and don't shuffle hand positions as much. Makes it far easier to know where straight ahead is if things get a little sideways!

For an all-season family sedan, the S4 does pretty damn good, doesn't it?

Thanks for the tips, and yes, for a heavy sedan that usually has a couple car seats in the back (of mine) this thing can get up and go around the track! I'll try to work on the hand positions. I never realized how much I use my thumbs on the wheel until I watched those videos.

As for the Yellowstuff pads and high temp fluid, would you recommend only using these pads on track days and then swapping back to stock (or other street) pads? Am I screwing up the rotors if I swap from street pads to track pads and then back? I'm guessing the fluid is good to go on street or track without issue, so no need to fully flush the Motul after track days? What's the best practice here?

[RBW]

Excellent write-up! I drove my tip B6 S4 at Virginia International Raceway 2 weekends ago in the Green Group. 8 30-minute sessions in two days with instructor in the front seat. Only upgrades to the car so far are DBA slotted rotors, Hawk HPS Pads and new Dot4 fluid. Newish Toyo all-season tires were noisy but loved the abuse.

About a month ago I drove my 2004 GLI at Summit Point Jefferson Circuit on those Continental DWS. Great, sticky tires, especially for the $!. The trick is to have the proper air pressure and you won't shred the shoulders like in your photo.

Check out Audi Club of North America for upcoming events, most likely next spring. I'm a member of the Potomac Chesapeake Chapter. http://www.pcc-acna.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=55

[RBW]

Thanks for the tips, and yes, for a heavy sedan that usually has a couple car seats in the back (of mine) this thing can get up and go around the track! I'll try to work on the hand positions. I never realized how much I use my thumbs on the wheel until I watched those videos.

As for the Yellowstuff pads and high temp fluid, would you recommend only using these pads on track days and then swapping back to stock (or other street) pads? Am I screwing up the rotors if I swap from street pads to track pads and then back? I'm guessing the fluid is good to go on street or track without issue, so no need to fully flush the Motul after track days? What's the best practice here?

You won't screw up the rotors by switching between pads, but I would definitely not use track pads on the street. That will wear your rotors faster and be noisy. Fluid just needs to be fresh within 6 months of your event (typically required by tech). Higher temperature spec fluids are better for track with no impact on street driving.

[GeoJoe]

The trick is to have the proper air pressure and you won't shred the shoulders like in your photo.


I was running them all at 41psi, as that was the recommended pressure in the door sill - still, the left front at Road Atlanta seems to be the one tire that takes the most abuse. That's the only one with any chunks taken out. All others had some noticeable wear, but nothing like that driver side front.

[salmjo1]

I was at VIR a couple weekends ago with my wife driving the S4 for her first track event. I took it out for a couple of sessions and was stunned at how much fun it is. I have the same setup - stock ADS and manual transmission. There is tons of torque and the car can just be balanced on the edge like a champ. I could not stop giggling! (I do have the BBK, which made braking a non-issue).

My old RS4 with Stasis suspension was there. Until that day I regretted selling the RS4. Not anymore.

[vwong]

I was running them all at 41psi, as that was the recommended pressure in the door sill - still, the left front at Road Atlanta seems to be the one tire that takes the most abuse. That's the only one with any chunks taken out. All others had some noticeable wear, but nothing like that driver side front.

41 psi is too high for tracks. Assuming that was the cold pressure, by the end of each session, your tire pressures could rise 6-8 psi depending on track temps. You may want to try starting at 32 psi cold, and aim for 38 psi hot at the end of each session.

[GeoJoe]

41 psi is too high for tracks. Assuming that was the cold pressure, by the end of each session, your tire pressures could rise 6-8 psi depending on track temps. You may want to try starting at 32 psi cold, and aim for 38 psi hot at the end of each session.

I started at 36psi cold and after hot laps I was at 41 exactly on all 4. So if I run them at 38, that would have reduced the effects on the side wall? I figured the lower the psi, the harder it is on the tires edges. Do I have this backwards? And of course, the Conti DWS is not the best tire for this purpose anyway. However, one of the instructors told me that some of the fastest laps in his novice class the day before were on all-season tires.

[ENV²]

My dad just got back from Road Atlanta he did an open wheel Formula race. He loved it over there. Congrats on taking the S4 out. Looks lke a ton of fun. I love the track. Havent taken my baby yet but have driven Karts and Open wheels and the rush is awesome.

[Wilbur]

I started at 36psi cold and after hot laps I was at 41 exactly on all 4. So if I run them at 38, that would have reduced the effects on the side wall? I figured the lower the psi, the harder it is on the tires edges. Do I have this backwards? And of course, the Conti DWS is not the best tire for this purpose anyway. However, one of the instructors told me that some of the fastest laps in his novice class the day before were on all-season tires.

...........they would have been faster on summer tires..........
Its a great experience, nice work and nice vids. Once you start at 9&3 with thumbs in you will get even smoother. When in a sharp turn loosen bottom hand (when it gets to your leg) so the wheel slides through it

[GeoJoe]

...........they would have been faster on summer tires..........
Its a great experience, nice work and nice vids. Once you start at 9&3 with thumbs in you will get even smoother. When in a sharp turn loosen bottom hand (when it gets to your leg) so the wheel slides through it

totally agree about the tires and thanks for the steering tips... now I just have to watch out for the next chance to get on the track.... addictive.

[focusaudi]

nice work passing those guys in the vids!

[MaX PL]

i'm sorry but whats with the track rules there, or are there none?

stick your arm out the window to notify that you can be passed? is that considered safe by the track officials?

wouldnt a blinker in either direction like they do at the Ring make more sense?

[GeoJoe]

Most track clubs use the point-by technique, and in the novice class passing is only allowed in the three straightaway areas at Rd ATL. Not all cars have blinkers, or any lights for that matter. I heard about this one club using blinkers in the rain at another track and a wreck almost happened when a guy signaled his blinkers on the right side, the car wanting to pass then went on the right and the guy signaling then went right too so that he could pit. Close call towards disaster.

There's no mistaking getting the finger. Sucks if it's cold out though but you are required to drive w front windows down anyway.

http://imageshack.us/a/img513/7186/porsche1.png


http://imageshack.us/a/img198/9074/porsche2t.png

[Leor604]

Thanks for the tips, and yes, for a heavy sedan that usually has a couple car seats in the back (of mine) this thing can get up and go around the track! I'll try to work on the hand positions. I never realized how much I use my thumbs on the wheel until I watched those videos.

As for the Yellowstuff pads and high temp fluid, would you recommend only using these pads on track days and then swapping back to stock (or other street) pads? Am I screwing up the rotors if I swap from street pads to track pads and then back? I'm guessing the fluid is good to go on street or track without issue, so no need to fully flush the Motul after track days? What's the best practice here?

I was planning on swapping out the Yellowstuff after the track, but I have not had a single squeal so I am running them year round. Cold bite is more than sufficient as long as you know you will require a little extra brake pressure for the first few stops in the morning. As to rotor wear, I really don't know if these are any harder on the rotors than stock pads.

No problem running the high temp fluid all the time. The only negative with the high temp fluids is that they tend to be more hygroscopic (absorb water faster) so need to be changed more frequently. I do a bleed after every track day so my fluid never gets a chance to get old, lol.

[UkuRiSh]

Nice vid

[GeoJoe]

One more video for you M3 haters out there.... check out the S4 hanging with a pair of 'em for a couple laps...

That AWD makes so much difference in the S curves... 1:15 to about 1:30 in this clip, and then again around 3:33

Finally got passed by a (Cobra replica?) around 6min into it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doZiPTQR714

[Gweezil]

Very entertaining.

[jedirocker]

Thanks for posting those. Enjoyed 'em and hope to be making my own soon.

[Wilbur]

totally agree about the tires and thanks for the steering tips... now I just have to watch out for the next chance to get on the track.... addictive.

No kidding!

[westwest888]

41 psi is too high for tracks. Assuming that was the cold pressure, by the end of each session, your tire pressures could rise 6-8 psi depending on track temps. You may want to try starting at 32 psi cold, and aim for 38 psi hot at the end of each session.

+1. Lower the pressures cold to 34 front, 35-36 rear. The heat in the tires will put it all back in and get you into the 40s all around. Do not lower to 29-30 PSI or you will roll the tire. You'll know because there will be no writing on the sidewalls when you get back to the paddock. Ask me how I know :)

[westwest888]

To the OP, great writeup. It's worth it to spring the extra money for the BMW CCA or Audi CCA or PCA (Porsche) events. They'll have an instructor ride in the car with you until you're competent. You'll learn each instructor's styles as they rotate as your teacher, and you'll find what works for you in a variety of situations.

RBF600 fluid and Pagid Yellow pads are a great combination. I run them all year around - they're not super noisy on the street.

Road Atlanta is a great track, one of the best in the country. I had the pleasure of going in July 2008 in my BMW e90 325i.

[GeoJoe]

Thanks for all the comments guys....

[vwong]

I started at 36psi cold and after hot laps I was at 41 exactly on all 4. So if I run them at 38, that would have reduced the effects on the side wall? I figured the lower the psi, the harder it is on the tires edges. Do I have this backwards? And of course, the Conti DWS is not the best tire for this purpose anyway. However, one of the instructors told me that some of the fastest laps in his novice class the day before were on all-season tires.

Nevermind, I thought the 41 psi was cold pressure.

[htoudiee]

Nevermind, I thought the 41 psi was cold pressure.

Agreed that DWS is deff. not the best tire for track use. I know of a fellow S4 owner who took huge chunks out of them on the first track day on practically brand new DWS tires :) ... the tires were to the point that they had to be replaced since the chunks were down to the cord on the front right. He had brake issues after as well. He did however run the car HARD and his rotors were warped after (shaking steering wheel when braking).

[vwong]

Agreed that DWS is deff. not the best tire for track use. I know of a fellow S4 owner who took huge chunks out of them on the first track day on practically brand new DWS tires :) ... the tires were to the point that they had to be replaced since the chunks were down to the cord on the front right. He had brake issues after as well. He did however run the car HARD and his rotors were warped after (shaking steering wheel when braking).

That also depends on the driving style. Back in September 2010, I was at a track event and met up with another B8 S4 driver. His car was 3 weeks old at the time (on 19" OEM Dunlop Sport Maxx GT), and his front tire wear was way worse than my almost a year old B8 S4 (same tires, with couple track days and couple auto-x events). I rode with him in one session, and that was enough for me to know why his tire wore so quickly. He was using the front tires to scrub off speed on corner entry. He also didn't unwind the steering wheel enough on corner exit while hard on the throttle.

[zcd2.7t]

.... He was using the front tires to scrub off speed on corner entry....

Yikes!

Did you happen to point out to him that quattros like the slow in/fast out approach much better, and that they're faster that way, to boot!?

I trail-brake SOME, but only enough to get the nose truly planted and start rotation, then let the Sports rear differential and quattro figure out the rest! It's FUN and FAST that way! :-)

[vwong]

Did you happen to point out to him that quattros like the slow in/fast out approach much better, and that they're faster that way, to boot!?

Not really....but after a few laps into that session, I noticed some huge vibrations from the passenger front. I told him to get off the track and check what was vibrating. Well, it turned out that he corded (and I mean really REALLY corded) the outside shoulder of the passenger front tire. I mentioned to him that his driving style probably contributed to the premature wear of the tire.

That didn't matter, a few months later when I bumped into him at the same track, he'd traded the S4 in for a Cayman. [rolleyes]

[GeoJoe]

That didn't matter, a few months later when I bumped into him at the same track, he'd traded the S4 in for a Cayman. [rolleyes]

That's a downgrade in my mind. See this again....http://imageshack.us/a/img513/7186/porsche1.png

[GeoJoe]

Just got an email from MVP Track Time. They're coming back to Road Atlanta in June. Check this link for more info (http://www.mvptracktime.com/id25.html) and see below for some professional pics of my S4. Kudos to Sideline Sports Photography for these outstanding shots!

http://imageshack.us/a/img15/3764/mk18608.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img40/7098/rdatl.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img571/8747/lmb9902.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/3690/lms3203.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img6/7230/mk93319.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img341/7601/mks4472.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/4470/mks6501.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img255/8742/mks7341.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img233/9003/mks7833.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img213/9418/mks8030.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img267/3138/mks9474.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img138/9618/mks9707.jpg



...oh, and a shot of my boss's GT-R - which is in an entirely different world than my lowly S4... up on 2 wheels?!

http://imageshack.us/a/img268/3305/imagecbh.jpg

[Gweezil]

I'd like to see the difference in photos from next summer once you have your full Eurocode treatment. Methinks you'll see much less body roll. Thanks for the awesome pics.

[westwest888]

Road Atlanta is a fantastic course. I raced it in my BMW with the BMW CCA in July 2008. The high speed downhill sweeper onto the front straight is very unique. White knuckle for sure. The esses are the best place to catch weaker drivers in faster cars.

Don't get discouraged by the instructor. You need the feedback to become a better driver. Try lots of instructors, take rides with them, and get calm with the speed. Even though I'm often signed off for solo ride I take an instructor with me.

[isles1]

Not to hijack, but is anyone aware of any groups that organize track days in the Northeast US? Thanks.

[GeoJoe]

I'll definitely take a few more instructors along for the ride next track day. Amazing how much you can learn in so little time.

isles1 - post in the regional section for more info on track days in your area. http://www.audizine.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/21-North-East

[Leor604]

Nice pics from the pro photographer. One comment: that looks like an awfully crowded track in some of those shots. Did you get lots of clear track as well or was it mostly train lapping?

[isles1]

isles1 - post in the regional section for more info on track days in your area. http://www.audizine.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/21-North-EastThanks! Will do.

[GeoJoe]

Nice pics from the pro photographer. One comment: that looks like an awfully crowded track in some of those shots. Did you get lots of clear track as well or was it mostly train lapping?

Those shots with a crowded track are the warm up laps. After a couple of those the field opens up. You can also take a quick break in the pits anytime to gain some room between cars.

[Leor604]

Ahh, got it. Can't tell the speed of the cars in the stills [;)]

At one track day last year, we had a guy in a TT-S who pissed off just about everyone in our group. Slow as shit, would not give a point-by and the corner workers weren't giving him a blue flag. Really frustrating to waste laps following someone like that.

The Monsoon looks great in that warm light with the fall colors.

[BITRBO]

Hey OP, posted up on your thread in regionals... Hopefully we can get a group going

edit: BTW, you mentioned that you got (6) 20-min session over two days, but MVP's website says (6) sessions [U]per day (so 12 sessions in total)...



How Much Track Time Will I Enjoy?
MVP Track Time schedules six, 20-minute run sessions for each of the three (Novice,
Intermediate and Advanced) run group each day. Expect 2 hours per day.

http://www.mvptracktime.com/id68.html

You went both days right? Did they run out of time or was the track schedule revised?

[GeoJoe]

Hey OP, posted up on your thread in regionals... Hopefully we can get a group going

edit: BTW, you mentioned that you got (6) 20-min session over two days, but MVP's website says (6) sessions [U]per day (so 12 sessions in total)...



http://www.mvptracktime.com/id68.html

You went both days right? Did they run out of time or was the track schedule revised?

I should have said 6 20 min sessions on BOTH days. What's really cool is that you can ride with instructors or choose not to. This seems to be unique with this group over other track day organizers.

I should also say that I won't be bone stock for long! Upgrades on the way!

[BITRBO]

I should have said 6 20 min sessions on BOTH days. What's really cool is that you can ride with instructors or choose not to. This seems to be unique with this group over other track day organizers.

I should also say that I won't be bone stock for long! Upgrades on the way!

Cool - That's what I thought. That's A LOT of track time on an amazing course. I'd definitely opt for the in-car instructor for most of the 1st day if it's included.

Hopefully I'll be able to swing it this year, as I some have more upgrades on the way too [;)]