Lost to a E93 M3 0-130 on an airstrip :( (tune+exhaust on my B8)

[Kem]

Was pretty surprised, kinda thought I had it in the bag with the extra torque of the S4. I have GIAC tune and AWE exhaust w/ a 6MT and he just had Akrapovic Exhaust w/ DCT. I did have a passenger who was probably 250lbs and he was solo. The M3 vert is probably close to the S4 in weight, but the extra passenger didn't help. I recently dynoed 340whp 324tq, and I thought M3's where about 340/350rwhp stock. I felt the initial run was pretty good, our launches about equal (neither of us went too crazy on the launch) with me getting a good jump with AWD. But by third he was gaining pretty good and was about 2 cars lengths ahead around 130 where I left off. I did notice in the video on the 1-2 shift my brake lights flashed for a split second, I don't think I really hit the brake to any ill effect, I would have noticed that.

We tried to re-run, but I think I launched too hard and the clutch slipped all the way through second and it was a lost cause from there. Which is too bad because I rocketed out of there in the launch and had a good chance of a much better result but the stock clutch wasn't having it. I was trying to clutch dump around 3500rpm but I think I was eyeing the start guy and probably launched around 4500rpm.

My passenger was the photographer for the event and took video, but I gotta track him down to get a copy. For now I have a video of the start my buddy filmed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wsJDZDb5T8

Just thought I'd share, bagging M3's with just stage 1 may not be as easy as we all think.

[1FastS4.Com]

Very nice run. Some fun stuff coming soon!! Keep it up!

[dgszweda]

Why were your brake lights flashing?

You might have done better with the DSG

[thedollardoctor]

Looking forward to seeing more video of this. Thanks for sharing! Wondering how a DSG would have faired with less potential for human error., also without your extra passenger, or at least a hot 95lb female passenger :)

[Vogz]

250lb passenger definitely affected the outcome. Put the passenger in his car and you put multiple lengths on him.

[A3 Guy]

250lb passenger definitely affected the outcome. Put the passenger in his car and you put multiple lengths on him.

I think you're overlooking that the E93 weighs 420lbs more than the sedan, give the sedan the passenger and he'd still take it and by an even greater margin.

[jeffc31337]

Definitely something weird with your brake lights coming on during the run, can you explain what happened there?

TO me losing to 130 isn't a real surprise, you were ahead off the line and very likely had the lead at the quarter mile. As the speed rises the drive train losses from AWD get more and more significant.

[htoudiee]

I really thought the S1 S4 would be at least ahead of the E93. Hmm...
I own a DCT M3 and a '13 S4. Wish you were here and we could do a few pulls.

[zamm3k]

I can tell that coming from an M3 a lot of people on this forum underestimate that car for its lack of torque. It's definitely not as good in stop and go traffic as the S4 is. But the S65 is a strong strong V8. Couple that with DCT and I can tell you it's a fast car. I went from a Manual M3 to a DCT and the difference in performance is incredible. Then there's the fact that when you're shifting from 2nd to 3rd the M3 is just hitting its powerband (in 2nd gear) and producing its 420 ponies at around 8,000 RPM's.

That being said I'm bit surprised you couldn't keep up having a tune and exhaust.

Sent from CM10 Galaxy S3

[tins5]

I've heard that every 100 lbs in the car = 1 car length. Who knows if that's true though.. but it would make sense in this case.

[htoudiee]

I can tell that coming from an M3 a lot of people on this forum underestimate that car for its lack of torque. It's definitely not as good in stop and go traffic as the S4 is. But the S65 is a strong strong V8. Couple that with DCT and I can tell you it's a fast car. I went from a Manual M3 to a DCT and the difference in performance is incredible. Then there's the fact that when you're shifting from 2nd to 3rd the M3 is just hitting its powerband (in 2nd gear) and producing its 420 ponies at around 8,000 RPM's.

That being said I'm bit surprised you couldn't keep up having a tune and exhaust.

Sent from CM10 Galaxy S3

I agree. M3's top end is not to be mistaken. And an addition of DCT makes it super fast (M3's DCT is much faster shifting than S4's double clutch, let alone 6MT S4) but you should have kept up. E93s are in fact slower by at least 0.1 sec in 1/4 mile.

[Vogz]

I think you're overlooking that the E93 weighs 420lbs more than the sedan, give the sedan the passenger and he'd still take it and by an even greater margin.

I'm overlooking nothing. I'm purely talking about these two cars. Not a hypothetical race between an M3 sedan and this S4.

[Liquidsystm]

When and where was this??? Looks like one of SF krew's m3

[IvIonsteI2]

nice video, what suspension are you running?

[Kem]

The brake light coming on was a bit strange, I must have tapped it ever so slightly when doing the 1-2 shift, but I don't think it affected the run. I felt my shifts were very good, but DCT must shift faster and he could hold gears longer and you can't forget about gearing. Loosing the passenger would have helped, it's too bad I killed my clutch on the 2nd run. :(

Going APR Stage II+ Friday, hopefully this doesn't happen again. :)

Suspension is H&R OE sports.

[PaperishPlastic]

I think you're overlooking that the E93 weighs 420lbs more than the sedan, give the sedan the passenger and he'd still take it and by an even greater margin.

If you take the passenger out of the S4 and put him in the M3 that makes a 500lb weight change which shouldn't give the sedan an even greater margin.

[PaperishPlastic]

The brake light coming on was a bit strange, I must have tapped it ever so slightly when doing the 1-2 shift, but I don't think it affected the run. I felt my shifts were very good, but DCT must shift faster and he could hold gears longer and you can't forget about gearing. Loosing the passenger would have helped, it's too bad I killed my clutch on the 2nd run. :(

Going APR Stage II+ Friday, hopefully this doesn't happen again. :)

Ya it should be a different outcome once you have stage II and a new clutch.

[Kem]

Any if anyone wants to see some other fun runs from the weekend:

V10 R8 (Capristo exhaust, APR tune) vs F430

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTI9iP7q-kI

Same R8 vs GT3 (R8 owner waited for the GT3 since he kept blowing the launch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PpZOgtDrOE

800hp GTR vs GSX-R

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmuIhP4wcJo

[skiracerblah]

Were you doing standing mile runs? Any times? I wanna try that sometime!

[Kem]

We got 2 solo runs to feel out the runway, then managed a few side by side drag races before time was up. Not standing mile or anything, just putting an airstrip to good use. :) Both the M3 and I were hitting 140mph before shutting down for the braking zone. The 500+ HP cars were doing about 160. The The R8 hit 175, and the GTR did 190 [o_o]


Were you doing standing mile runs? Any times? I wanna try that sometime!

[akim_hobo]

Gawd, once that GT3 got going it was gooooone

[Wah]

Pretty cool setting. Both cars looks great. The M3 looks very aggressive.
Should be very interesting to see how you do with Stage II+.


I've heard that every 100 lbs in the car = 1 car length. Who knows if that's true though.. but it would make sense in this case.

Its hard to translate that to distance but I believe an extra 100 - 150 lbs translates to about an additional 10 - 15 hp, which could ultimately mean 1 car length but its hard to tell.

[phillips2024]

awesome video. looking forward to more[up]

either way, 2 sweet cars

[MrFunk]

Nice vids! All the cars look sick!
250lbs passenger is a lot. Deff would feel the difference in the seat of your pants with vs without him. What was your fuel set up? Full tank? How about M3? Again I think 250lbs is a lot to be lugging in a drag race!

[madmadS4]

how does one get an airport to let you use their airstrip? somehow I think if I walked up to a ticket counter and asked if my 20 buddies could come drive on the strip... it wouldn't fly...

[Vogz]

We got 2 solo runs to feel out the runway, then managed a few side by side drag races before time was up. Not standing mile or anything, just putting an airstrip to good use. :) Both the M3 and I were hitting 140mph before shutting down for the braking zone. The 500+ HP cars were doing about 160. The The R8 hit 175, and the GTR did 190 [o_o]


How did the race between the GTR and GSX-R turn out? I assume the GTR ran the bike down....

[Vogz]

how does one get an airport to let you use their airstrip? somehow I think if I walked up to a ticket counter and asked if my 20 buddies could come drive on the strip... it wouldn't fly...

Plenty of general aviation airports around that will rent out the runway for the day if you work it out far enough in advance that they can let the FAA know the airport will be closed. There are also permanently closed airports that can be use for this too.

[s4buckeye]

250lb passenger definitely affected the outcome. Put the passenger in his car and you put multiple lengths on him.

Wrong.


I think you're overlooking that the E93 weighs 420lbs more than the sedan, give the sedan the passenger and he'd still take it and by an even greater margin.

Right.


If you take the passenger out of the S4 and put him in the M3 that makes a 500lb weight change which shouldn't give the sedan an even greater margin.

Huh? He is saying the M3 sedan weighs 420 pounds less than the convertible, so the passenger swap would still make the M3 sedan faster than the vert even with the passenger.

[Kem]

^This, the airfield no longer in use. There is purposefully a lot of secret around the location. EuroSunday had to jump through a lot of hoops (insurance, working with the county) and more to make this happen. They don't want people just showing up and using it unpermitted and blowing the use of it for people who actually use it legally and work with authorities.

There should be more events hopefully but prob not till spring. I'll be Stage II+ and intake by then, should help. And this time I'll remove my spare and tools.


Plenty of general aviation airports around that will rent out the runway for the day if you work it out far enough in advance that they can let the FAA know the airport will be closed. There are also permanently closed airports that can be use for this too.

[Vogz]

Wrong.



Right.



Huh? He is saying the M3 sedan weighs 420 pounds less than the convertible, so the passenger swap would still make the M3 sedan faster than the vert even with the passenger.


You didn't do well in math class, did you??

So, you're basically saying the removing 250lbs from the S4 and adding 250lbs to the M3 would make no difference. LO fucking L.

[Vogz]

^This, the airfield no longer in use. There is purposefully a lot of secret around the location. EuroSunday had to jump through a lot of hoops (insurance, working with the county) and more to make this happen. They don't want people just showing up and using it unpermitted and blowing the use of it for people who actually use it legally and work with authorities.

There should be more events hopefully but prob not till spring. I'll be Stage II+ and intake by then, should help. And this time I'll remove my spare and tools.


You might need a clutch upgrade too. ;) Will be nice when we have some more aftermarket clutch options.

[Vogz]

Hey Einstein, read the posts again. While you were sleeping in your Math class, you certainly weren't dreaming about English class.

You noob.

Ok, I'll play your game. If you remove 250lbs from one car and add it to the other, that's a 500lb NET weight DIFFERENCE. Simply replacing the vert with a sedan changes the weight difference by 420lbs before passenger swap...that's still 80 less than the net weight difference of changing passengers. Would the S4 keep up in that case?? Who knows, but it wouldn't get beat worse if you swapped the vert for a sedan AND switched that large passenger from the S4 to the M3.

[Vogz]

Hey Einstein, read the posts again. While you were sleeping in your Math class, you certainly weren't dreaming about English class.

Oh and by the way. My original post, which you quoted and replied "wrong" to was that removing the passenger from the S4 and putting him in the vert would drastically change the outcome. If you disagree with that, you're an idiot. Try it sometime if you don't believe me.

[s4buckeye]

Oh and by the way. My original post, which you quoted and replied "wrong" to was that removing the passenger from the S4 and putting him in the vert would drastically change the outcome. If you disagree with that, you're an idiot. Try it sometime if you don't believe me.

You are truly a credit to Audizine.

Per Automobile Magazine - curb weights:

2010 Audi S4: 3714

2010 M3 vert: 4145

2010 M3 sedan: 3726

M3 vert w/250lb passenger: 4395 lbs vs. S4 with 3714 lbs = +681 lb difference for M3 vert

M3 sedan w/250lb passenger: 3976 lbs. vs. S4 with 3714 lbs = +262 lb difference for M3 sedan

S4 sedan w/250 lb passenger: 3966 vs. M3 vert @ 4145 lbs = +170 lb difference for M3 vert

S4 sedan w/250 passenger: 3964 vs. M3 sedan @ at 3726 lbs = +238 lb difference for S4 sedan

S4 sedan w/no passenger = 3714 vs. M3 sedan w/ no passenger @ 3726 = +12 lb difference for M3 sedan

If his point was that the M3 sedan weighs 419 pounds less than the M3 vert, then the math (and English) are easy. Put the 250 passenger in the M3 vert and of course it is different. But the point is that with no passengers and even w/o a tune in the M3 sedan and the M3 sedan takes it.

Apples to apples. Try that sometime and perhaps do it with a little less anger and a little more careful reading.

[13S4]

You are truly a credit to Audizine.

Per Automobile Magazine - curb weights:

2010 Audi S4: 3714

2010 M3 vert: 4145

2010 M3 sedan: 3726

M3 vert w/250lb passenger: 4395 lbs vs. S4 with 3714 lbs = +681 lb difference for M3 vert

M3 sedan w/250lb passenger: 3976 lbs. vs. S4 with 3714 lbs = +262 lb difference for M3 sedan

S4 sedan w/250 lb passenger: 3966 vs. M3 vert @ 4145 lbs = +170 lb difference for M3 vert

S4 sedan w/250 passenger: 3964 vs. M3 sedan @ at 3726 lbs = +238 lb difference for S4 sedan

S4 sedan w/no passenger = 3714 vs. M3 sedan w/ no passenger @ 3726 = +12 lb difference for M3 sedan

If his point was that the M3 sedan weighs 429 pounds less than the M3 vert, then the math (and English) are easy. Put the 250 passenger in the M3 vert and of course it is different. But the point is that with no passengers and even w/o a tune in the M3 sedan and the M3 sedan takes it.

Apples to apples. Try that sometime and perhaps do it with a little less anger and a little more careful reading.

You answered your first post like a dick head... Vogz hasn't said anything but truth the entire time. A3 guy brought up a sedan for no reason since it was never discussed in the original post (What he said wasn't wrong, but completely irrelevant). Vogs simply stated that the race would have been different if you took 250lbs from the S4, and added it to the M3.... This is obvious to everyone.

[s4buckeye]

You answered your first post like a dick head... Vogz hasn't said anything but truth the entire time. A3 guy brought up a sedan for no reason since it was never discussed in the original post (What he said wasn't wrong, but completely irrelevant). Vogs simply stated that the race would have been different if you took 250lbs from the S4, and added it to the M3.... This is obvious to everyone.


Uh, no.

The sedan was brought up because it is relevant. If you can't see that, then I guess what is "obvious to everyone" apparently is a little too subtle for some. Get over it.

[blackESfour]

When i first had my stg1 apr tune with An exhaust and intake(DSG), did a pull with my father in it (235lbs) With an m3 full with 4 guys, i still got pulled on over and over after 100.

[Vogz]

You are truly a credit to Audizine.

Per Automobile Magazine - curb weights:

2010 Audi S4: 3714

2010 M3 vert: 4145

2010 M3 sedan: 3726

M3 vert w/250lb passenger: 4395 lbs vs. S4 with 3714 lbs = +681 lb difference for M3 vert

M3 sedan w/250lb passenger: 3976 lbs. vs. S4 with 3714 lbs = +262 lb difference for M3 sedan

S4 sedan w/250 lb passenger: 3966 vs. M3 vert @ 4145 lbs = +170 lb difference for M3 vert

S4 sedan w/250 passenger: 3964 vs. M3 sedan @ at 3726 lbs = +238 lb difference for S4 sedan

S4 sedan w/no passenger = 3714 vs. M3 sedan w/ no passenger @ 3726 = +12 lb difference for M3 sedan

If his point was that the M3 sedan weighs 419 pounds less than the M3 vert, then the math (and English) are easy. Put the 250 passenger in the M3 vert and of course it is different. But the point is that with no passengers and even w/o a tune in the M3 sedan and the M3 sedan takes it.

Apples to apples. Try that sometime and perhaps do it with a little less anger and a little more careful reading.

The bolded statement was all that I originally stated.

Oh and you forgot to add the original, actual race setup to your list there.

M3 Vert w/ no passenger: 4145 vs. S4 with 250lb passenger 3964. Which is +181 for the vert. Which is....DING DING DING. About an 80lbs advantage for S4 in your hypothetical empty S4 vs. M3 sedan with 250lb passenger as compared to the race that actually happened.

Thanks for playing and being a jackass.

[s4buckeye]

Wow, that is some real insight. What's best is that you continue to throw out the name calling, as you have done from the get go. Remember: the louder you yell and harder you stomp, the more true it will become.

Stay classy Vogz!

[s4ibis]

Is your window open during this or are the front windows not tinted? If windows down, that would lower your performance.

[PaperishPlastic]

You are truly a credit to Audizine.

Per Automobile Magazine - curb weights:

2010 Audi S4: 3714

2010 M3 vert: 4145

2010 M3 sedan: 3726

M3 vert w/250lb passenger: 4395 lbs vs. S4 with 3714 lbs = +681 lb difference for M3 vert

M3 sedan w/250lb passenger: 3976 lbs. vs. S4 with 3714 lbs = +262 lb difference for M3 sedan

S4 sedan w/250 lb passenger: 3966 vs. M3 vert @ 4145 lbs = +170 lb difference for M3 vert

S4 sedan w/250 passenger: 3964 vs. M3 sedan @ at 3726 lbs = +238 lb difference for S4 sedan

S4 sedan w/no passenger = 3714 vs. M3 sedan w/ no passenger @ 3726 = +12 lb difference for M3 sedan

If his point was that the M3 sedan weighs 419 pounds less than the M3 vert, then the math (and English) are easy. Put the 250 passenger in the M3 vert and of course it is different. But the point is that with no passengers and even w/o a tune in the M3 sedan and the M3 sedan takes it.

Apples to apples. Try that sometime and perhaps do it with a little less anger and a little more careful reading.

exactly the point me and vogz were making. I dont know what point your trying to make though.

[ilspazzaneve]

You are truly a credit to Audizine.

Per Automobile Magazine - curb weights:

2010 Audi S4: 3714
.

I think you guys missed the BS part of his post. I don't even think Imola's S4 that was stripped down weighed that little. My car is 4000 lbs.

Anyway, M3 trolls should GTFO of this forum.

[s4buckeye]

Oh and you forgot to add the original, actual race setup to your list there.

No, it was there:


S4 sedan w/250 lb passenger: 3966 vs. M3 vert @ 4145 lbs = +170 lb difference for M3 vert




exactly the point me and vogz were making. I dont know what point your trying to make though.

The point was to follow up on the comment of the weight difference of the e90 vs. the e93, and how that would affect sedan vs. sedan w/ or w/o the passenger based upon the e93 vs. B8s4 race in the OP and video.

[jeffc31337]

I think you guys missed the BS part of his post. I don't even think Imola's S4 that was stripped down weighed that little. My car is 4000 lbs.

Anyway, M3 trolls should GTFO of this forum.


Agreed! Similar weight cars; S4 with better torque curve gets the jump and leads though the 1/8 or 1/4 and the M3 with better top end and less drive train losses pulls ahead at high speed. Exactly expected behavior IMO.

[ENV²]

Why has this even gone on for so long? M3 is a very fast car on the top end. We have better torque curves and AWD to help with launch. M3 has a solid clutch and DCT shifts faster than our S-Tronic. The M3 is destined to win in standing mile runs stock for stock and stock vs modded. I dont understand why its ard for us to believe. If we can afford the S4 we can usually afford an M3 especially a CPO M3. I almost traded for an M3 and a C63 on different occasions. There are faster cars out there. Our S4 is not a crazy beast even at STG2+. It is fast but not a monster.

This shouldnt be a surprise. Plus the brake light tap hurts a lot as well. I have rolled on a M3 sedan before and I do not even have STG1 tune. I stayed 1/4 car length ahead of him to 120mph and then he rolled out.

[s4buckeye]

I think you guys missed the BS part of his post. I don't even think Imola's S4 that was stripped down weighed that little. My car is 4000 lbs.

Anyway, M3 trolls should GTFO of this forum.


Brilliant comment as to a 2010 sedan. Call AoA and tell them they are lying about the 2013 as well:

http://models.audiusa.com/s4-sedan/detailed-specifications (2013 Curb Weight 3935 lbs. [1785 kg] (auto); 3847 lbs. [1744 kg] (6mt))

Thanks for that valuable input. As for the "M3 troll" comment, that makes a lot of sense when you join the forum 2.5 years after I did and post this kind of nonsense....

[s4buckeye]

Why has this even gone on for so long? M3 is a very fast car on the top end. We have better torque curves and AWD to help with launch. M3 has a solid clutch and DCT shifts faster than our S-Tronic. The M3 is destined to win in standing mile runs stock for stock and stock vs modded. I dont understand why its ard for us to believe. If we can afford the S4 we can usually afford an M3 especially a CPO M3. I almost traded for an M3 and a C63 on different occasions. There are faster cars out there. Our S4 is not a crazy beast even at STG2+. It is fast but not a monster.

This shouldnt be a surprise. Plus the brake light tap hurts a lot as well. I have rolled on a M3 sedan before and I do not even have STG1 tune. I stayed 1/4 car length ahead of him to 120mph and then he rolled out.

+1

[zillmc]

^This, the airfield no longer in use. There is purposefully a lot of secret around the location. EuroSunday had to jump through a lot of hoops (insurance, working with the county) and more to make this happen. They don't want people just showing up and using it unpermitted and blowing the use of it for people who actually use it legally and work with authorities.

There should be more events hopefully but prob not till spring. I'll be Stage II+ and intake by then, should help. And this time I'll remove my spare and tools.

If this is potentially open to more folks in the future from the Bay Area let me know, me and my bro would love to take my S4 and his 335is out; send me a PM if more are welcome, thanks!

[oc cc]

Don't know why everyone is so shocked to be honest. You are comparing a dedicated sports car meant for the track, vs an AWD sporty sedan. This is too apples to oranges. But if it makes you feel better, if the track was even slightly wet, you would have owned both dragging and canyon carving. Once again, not apples to apples though...

[pandi]

I wish I could get on an airstrip! Most fun I have had was yesterday following two motorcycles hitting 130 plus! In Mexico, of course.

[FatalBert]

Is your window open during this or are the front windows not tinted? If windows down, that would lower your performance.

Definitely front windows down. The M3 looks like it had its windows wide open too.

[FatalBert]

Why has this even gone on for so long? M3 is a very fast car on the top end. We have better torque curves and AWD to help with launch. M3 has a solid clutch and DCT shifts faster than our S-Tronic. The M3 is destined to win in standing mile runs stock for stock and stock vs modded. I dont understand why its ard for us to believe. If we can afford the S4 we can usually afford an M3 especially a CPO M3. I almost traded for an M3 and a C63 on different occasions. There are faster cars out there. Our S4 is not a crazy beast even at STG2+. It is fast but not a monster.

This shouldnt be a surprise. Plus the brake light tap hurts a lot as well. I have rolled on a M3 sedan before and I do not even have STG1 tune. I stayed 1/4 car length ahead of him to 120mph and then he rolled out.

And in the rain/snow?

[well_armed]

I love a good e-fight.



P.S. To Papersish Plastic, this is how you LEGALLY race without putting innocent people at risk.

[AwdPwns]

@ PaperishPlastic here we go again with this guy^^

[b6onboost]

+2.


Why has this even gone on for so long? M3 is a very fast car on the top end. We have better torque curves and AWD to help with launch. M3 has a solid clutch and DCT shifts faster than our S-Tronic. The M3 is destined to win in standing mile runs stock for stock and stock vs modded. I dont understand why its ard for us to believe. If we can afford the S4 we can usually afford an M3 especially a CPO M3. I almost traded for an M3 and a C63 on different occasions. There are faster cars out there. Our S4 is not a crazy beast even at STG2+. It is fast but not a monster.

This shouldnt be a surprise. Plus the brake light tap hurts a lot as well. I have rolled on a M3 sedan before and I do not even have STG1 tune. I stayed 1/4 car length ahead of him to 120mph and then he rolled out.

[ENV²]

And in the rain/snow?

In the rain and snow we trash M3 and especially C63s. Ive done Bear Mountain runs in damp/rain conditions with a group of BMWs when my car was fully stock and could've passed every M out there.

So, yes, Quatrro equipped sport sedans are beasts in the snow/wet. But in this situation we are talking dry warm ground

[13S4]

No one ever called the M3 slow. It was a simple statement saying that the weight has a large effect.

[Kem]

His windows were down the whole time, my drivers was down to hear the start but I rolled it up after shifting to 2nd.

And our cars are 3950lbs not 3700.


Definitely front windows down. The M3 looks like it had its windows wide open too.

[jdgamble]

First, to the 3714 curb weight guy, I've never seen a curb weight under around 4000 in ANY car magazine. Yahoo Autos lists the S4 at 3847, and 4145 for the E93. I just googled a couple mag tests, and it's right around 4000 every time for the S4.

As far as the race goes, the M3 is fast. I had a 2011 sedan, and it felt faster than my S4 when my S4 was chipped (no times, just butt dyno). Add the Akro exhaust (I've seen dyno's and apparently this picks up around 30 hp), and it should beat a chipped S4 on 91 octane. It all makes perfect sense to me!!!

[s4buckeye]

First, to the 3714 curb weight guy, I've never seen a curb weight under around 4000 in ANY car magazine. Yahoo Autos lists the S4 at 3847, and 4145 for the E93. I just googled a couple mag tests, and it's right around 4000 every time for the S4.

I don't know myself, just know what I read. All under 4k lbs:

http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2010/audi/s4/specifications/aerodynamics_exterior.html

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s4/2010/features-specs.html?style=&sub=

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2010/audi/s4/specifications/exterior.html

http://buyersguide.roadandtrack.com/audi/s4/specs#features

http://buyersguide.caranddriver.com/audi/s4/specs#features

http://www.cars.com/audi/s4/2010/specifications/

http://www.thecarconnection.com/specifications/audi_s4_2010_4dr-sdn-s-tronic-prestige_dimensions


FWIW, as to the 0-60 stock M3 vs. S4 with full Stasis "challenge" package:

MT M3: 4.1s (DCT)
C&D M3: 4.3s (6mt, DCT would be faster)
R&T M3: 4.2s (6mt, same as above)

MT: full Stasis Challenge Edition B8S4 0-60: 4.4s

http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtests/sedans/1106_stasis_audi_s4_video/


Different cars for different reasons. We bought an M3 for my wife because it is a hardtop convertible, we don't need AWD or even front wheel drive where we live and she liked the M3 much more than the S5. Having owned a B6S4 and having driven a B8 S4 and S5 many times, I can't say I disagreed.

YMMV.

[PaperishPlastic]

what I dont understand is Ive raced an M3 coupe up to 130 a few times when I was stock and he had me from 2-4 carlengths at most. I raced another coupe when I had the Revo Stage 1 chip and I beat him pretty bad, more than a car and a half. I have not raced one since I got the APR Stage 2.

[Kem]

Who knows, not all motors are equal and maybe this one was strong and the one you raced wasn't. I am down about 20wtq from what I've seen compared tp APR Stage I plots I've seen on the same dyno. Intake might have helped too, but it's been on backorder (getting it friday).

We shouldn't read into it too much, was just one race. I think my result would have been better on the second run if my damn clutch held up.


what I dont understand is Ive raced an M3 coupe up to 130 a few times when I was stock and he had me from 2-4 carlengths at most. I raced another coupe when I had the Revo Stage 1 chip and I beat him pretty bad, more than a car and a half. I have not raced one since I got the APR Stage 2.

[traf818]

ya if your clutch is slipping bad then im sure it slips on shifts and you lose quite a bit of power that way.

[dgszweda]

The facts are that for all intents and purposes you are faster than an M3. Touching the brakes and the fact that he wasn't pulling until well past legal speeds and even track speeds make it all the more relevant.

[oc cc]

A set or Eurocode headers should fix this ;)

[dbcperformance]

The gearing on the M3 and high revving V8, it is not surprise you lost OP

[s4buckeye]

The facts are that for all intents and purposes you are faster than an M3. Touching the brakes and the fact that he wasn't pulling until well past legal speeds and even track speeds make it all the more relevant.

vs.


The gearing on the M3 and high revving V8, it is not surprise you lost OP


= awesome

[FatalBert]

In the rain and snow we trash M3 and especially C63s. Ive done Bear Mountain runs in damp/rain conditions with a group of BMWs when my car was fully stock and could've passed every M out there.

So, yes, Quatrro equipped sport sedans are beasts in the snow/wet. But in this situation we are talking dry warm ground

Just throwing that out there for everyone that wants to compare apples to apples saying the convertible is not equal, the sedan is.

Well then the drivetrains aren't the same so you cant just talk about dry conditions and leave out wet/snow anymore if we want to get all technical about comparison details.


His windows were down the whole time, my drivers was down to hear the start but I rolled it up after shifting to 2nd.

And our cars are 3950lbs not 3700.

I thought the MT6's were ~200lbs lighter than the S-Tronic. I thought something like 3650lbs vs 3840lbs (in our B8's, dry).

[Doc Brown]

First, to the 3714 curb weight guy, I've never seen a curb weight under around 4000 in ANY car magazine. Yahoo Autos lists the S4 at 3847, and 4145 for the E93. I just googled a couple mag tests, and it's right around 4000 every time for the S4.

As far as the race goes, the M3 is fast. it felt faster than my S4 when my S4 was chipped (no times, just butt dyno). Add the Akro exhaust (I've seen dyno's and apparently this picks up around 30 hp), and it should beat a chipped S4 on 91 octane. It all makes perfect sense to me!!!

Why can't we all just get along?


I also owned an E90 M3. Two actually. It was a monster of a car. 5000-8400 RPM the engine came alive. The E93 does weigh a lot more.

I love my new 2013 S4, but it is not in the same category - which is both good and bad. I partly chose it because it was more livable than an M3, acknowledging and accepting the reduced performance but gaining comfort, mileage, AWD and a more subdued style. My limited experience with chip/suspension/add-ons is that the balance of a car is often disrupted in the process. In the end, I would just buy an RS5 rather than modding the crap out of an S4/S5. That is just me, I guess.

for $25K, Dinan will put a 500+ bhp stroker in the M3. It is actually slower than the standard V8. Balance.

As a high performance street car, the S4 is the better machine. As a performance machine, better suited for off road, sacrificing some comfort and drivability, the M3 is an incredible car. The M-DCT is a far better performance transmission than the S-tronic, but more of a bear on the street. The S-tronic is smooth and comfortable around town yet still shifts well and crisply when needed. the M-DCT, not so much. it will rip off shifts in milliseconds but is a PIA in bumper to bumper traffic. not as clunky as the SMG but no one would ever mistake it for a torque convertor auto.

Two different machines although they are both technically "performance compact sedans".

As said. Apples to Oranges. Both are great cars and we live in the golden age of performance. Some claim it was the late 60's and early 70's No. It is now. Be thankful.

[dgszweda]

Here is a good YouTube video of a GIAC against an M3.

http://youtu.be/6ZrOEMlU7XY

Yes, eventually the M3 will take over, but for most driving conditions the S4 is faster (I.e. from a dig, lower rpm, under 115....., eventually the better breathing engine and the higher rpms win out.

[jdgamble]

I don't know myself, just know what I read. All under 4k lbs:

http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2010/audi/s4/specifications/aerodynamics_exterior.html

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/s4/2010/features-specs.html?style=&sub=

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2010/audi/s4/specifications/exterior.html

http://buyersguide.roadandtrack.com/audi/s4/specs#features

http://buyersguide.caranddriver.com/audi/s4/specs#features

http://www.cars.com/audi/s4/2010/specifications/

http://www.thecarconnection.com/specifications/audi_s4_2010_4dr-sdn-s-tronic-prestige_dimensions


FWIW, as to the 0-60 stock M3 vs. S4 with full Stasis "challenge" package:

MT M3: 4.1s (DCT)
C&D M3: 4.3s (6mt, DCT would be faster)
R&T M3: 4.2s (6mt, same as above)

MT: full Stasis Challenge Edition B8S4 0-60: 4.4s

http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtests/sedans/1106_stasis_audi_s4_video/


Different cars for different reasons. We bought an M3 for my wife because it is a hardtop convertible, we don't need AWD or even front wheel drive where we live and she liked the M3 much more than the S5. Having owned a B6S4 and having driven a B8 S4 and S5 many times, I can't say I disagreed.

YMMV.

Ok... how bout some links that they actually test the car and weigh it, as opposed to just regurgitating the manufacturer's specs...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezflow_site/storage_RT_NEW/storage/original/application/55e14e1bb3dc33f45cb4af564774ca35.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2010-audi-s4-vs-2009-bmw-335i2010-audi-s4-quattro-vs-2009-bmw-335i-vehicle.pdf

There's more but I gotta work.

[jdgamble]

Why can't we all just get along?


I also owned an E90 M3. Two actually. It was a monster of a car. 5000-8400 RPM the engine came alive. The E93 does weigh a lot more.

I love my new 2013 S4, but it is not in the same category - which is both good and bad. I partly chose it because it was more livable than an M3, acknowledging and accepting the reduced performance but gaining comfort, mileage, AWD and a more subdued style. My limited experience with chip/suspension/add-ons is that the balance of a car is often disrupted in the process. In the end, I would just buy an RS5 rather than modding the crap out of an S4/S5. That is just me, I guess.

for $25K, Dinan will put a 500+ bhp stroker in the M3. It is actually slower than the standard V8. Balance.

As a high performance street car, the S4 is the better machine. As a performance machine, better suited for off road, sacrificing some comfort and drivability, the M3 is an incredible car. The M-DCT is a far better performance transmission than the S-tronic, but more of a bear on the street. The S-tronic is smooth and comfortable around town yet still shifts well and crisply when needed. the M-DCT, not so much. it will rip off shifts in milliseconds but is a PIA in bumper to bumper traffic. not as clunky as the SMG but no one would ever mistake it for a torque convertor auto.

Two different machines although they are both technically "performance compact sedans".

As said. Apples to Oranges. Both are great cars and we live in the golden age of performance. Some claim it was the late 60's and early 70's No. It is now. Be thankful.

We do get along, Doc... we do!

[s4ibis]

On a side note, can we come up with an alternative to 'apple to oranges'? Makes me sick seeing that phrase on just about every which car is better/faster thread. [:)]

[Auditude2.0T]

I'm GIAC Stage 1 6MT with AWE Exhaust and intake and iv'e raced my fair share of E92 M3's all DCT. In every instance we ran whether it would be from 40 or 60 i would instantly get 2 cars on them, then after 100 the gap closed quick and by 150 they'd be mirror to mirror with me. However on a 40-120 or 60-130 type race i would usually have over a car length atleast when we let off.

[ENV²]

A set or Eurocode headers should fix this ;)

X2 [up]

[FatalBert]

Ok... how bout some links that they actually test the car and weigh it, as opposed to just regurgitating the manufacturer's specs...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezflow_site/storage_RT_NEW/storage/original/application/55e14e1bb3dc33f45cb4af564774ca35.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2010-audi-s4-vs-2009-bmw-335i2010-audi-s4-quattro-vs-2009-bmw-335i-vehicle.pdf

There's more but I gotta work.

So the S-Tronic actually weighs ~4200lbs?

[madmadS4]

Don't trust the specs from Audi or from the magazines.

I went to my town's sanitation dept to weigh my car (DSG). It was 4000 lbs.

[FatalBert]

Don't trust the specs from Audi or from the magazines.

I went to my town's sanitation dept to weigh my car (DSG). It was 4000 lbs.

How full was your gas tank?

And does this mean MT6 is more like 3800lbs?

I never got confirmation on whether or not the MT6 is 200lbs lighter than the S-Tronic.

The Audi specs always showed that for the B8's.

PS. Sorry for taking part in the divergence of this thread, but I thought it was relevant.

[rs4dreams]

How full was your gas tank?

And does this mean MT6 is more like 3800lbs?

I never got confirmation on whether or not the MT6 is 200lbs lighter than the S-Tronic.

The Audi specs always showed that for the B8's.

PS. Sorry for taking part in the divergence of this thread, but I thought it was relevant.

I believe the weight difference is around 80-90 lbs.

[s4ibis]

I believe the Audi specs are for the dry weight, no? A full tank of gas would add 100lbs alone.

[Kem]

FWIW, I had a 1/4 tank of gas.


I believe the Audi specs are for the dry weight, no? A full tank of gas would add 100lbs alone.

[PaperishPlastic]

FWIW, I had a 1/4 tank of gas.

A quarter tank is way too much, thats where you fucked up.