Introduction and question about APR tuning

[ilas]

Hello,
I'm from Switzerland, 37 years old and I'm an old fan of Audi. The first was an Audi 80 GTE from 1984 (I bought it in 1995), the second a Audi 80 Avant 2.6 V6 from 1994 (bought in 2002). Then, in 2005, I came to the serious thing: the car of my dream, an Audi S4 Avant B5 biturbo, tuning by ABT (310hp), nogaro blue.
Last year, I sold my S4 B5 for a new S4 Avant B8 (Stronic, sport differential, MMI high, Audi Drive select, ...). And now, i'm wondering how to put a little more hp in that engine. In Switzerland, I have a few good opportunities: ABT (the most expensive, but the warranty remain from the importer), Sportec (a swiss specialist), and the well know MTM.
But now, a new factory is coming in my country: APR (www.goapr.ch) and it is from the US. So it's why I ask here a question about what you are thinking upon APR. Is it good (as good as MTM or ABT), is it reliable? Thank you for your opinion, and sorry for my english.

Here are 2 pictures of my car:
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1183/img4451web.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/img4451web.jpg/)
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9228/img0642web.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/img0642web.jpg/)

[Stubek]

APR is very good and of the ones you get in the US. I don't think we can get ABT tunes in the US.

It is hard to say what is "best." Is best for you just getting the highest HP or highest torque or maybe slightly lower hp or torque, but getting it earlier and having more area under the curve on a graph or is best in your mind just customer service?.

I have APR on my A4 and no problems with it. I know for the S4 in America they offer a new pulley for the super charger and a tune to go with it for more power.

[helix139]

Hello,
I'm from Switzerland, 37 years old and I'm an old fan of Audi. The first was an Audi 80 GTE from 1984 (I bought it in 1995), the second a Audi 80 Avant 2.6 V6 from 1994 (bought in 2002). Then, in 2005, I came to the serious thing: the car of my dream, an Audi S4 Avant B5 biturbo, tuning by ABT (310hp), nogaro blue.
Last year, I sold my S4 B5 for a new S4 Avant B8 (Stronic, sport differential, MMI high, Audi Drive select, ...). And now, i'm wondering how to put a little more hp in that engine. In Switzerland, I have a few good opportunities: ABT (the most expensive, but the warranty remain from the importer), Sportec (a swiss specialist), and the well know MTM.
But now, a new factory is coming in my country: APR (www.goapr.ch) and it is from the US. So it's why I ask here a question about what you are thinking upon APR. Is it good (as good as MTM or ABT), is it reliable? Thank you for your opinion, and sorry for my english.

Here are 2 pictures of my car:
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1183/img4451web.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/img4451web.jpg/)
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9228/img0642web.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/img0642web.jpg/)

ABT and MTM both use the same piggyback module. Piggyback modules are not very effective or consistent on this platform. APR actually rewrites the code in the ECU and is safe, effective, and consistent, with a path to stage 2 (a smaller supercharger pulley) and even an upcoming stage 3. I'd go APR over the other two, no question.

[HAWKiS5]

If you ask any one on this "APR forum" you can expect the answer......... :)

[ilas]

Thanks for your comments. For me, the most important thing in an engine tuning is reliabilty, and the fact that the promised power (hp and torque) is really here.
So,people in the us thinks that APR is one of the best tuner for Audi cars?

[Spartan300]

Hello ilas to start i would like to say i dont like you very much!!! And expect this reaction from many Avant A4 owners in North America that are Avant fans and cannot purchase the S4 Avant!!!

That being said all three tuners are all good options and like everything else offer pros and cons. ABT have been tuning Audi cars for a very long time and retaining warranty would be something to conisder. APR has a more inegrated tuning ecu software solution by flashing the ecu this would also apply to GIAC or REVO as well (please guys don't start a tuner war here).

I would look at the specs and charts for the companies that are on top of your list, consider cost and warranty based on tuning option.

Wish I was more helpful but its one of those things that never really has a clear answer.

[ilas]

Thanks for all your comments. In Switzerland, the ABT tuning cost twice the APR (6000.- vs 3000.- in $). But you keep the full warranty.
I can't understand why the s4 Avant isn't sold in north America. No luck for you.

[helix139]

If you ask any one on this "APR forum" you can expect the answer......... :)

If you look at the dyno's and performance figures of the non-APR solutions, you will see they perform (at least) as good, especially in the higher revs (above 5500 rpm, where the stock cars "flatten" because of the overflow valve), also without a new pully. The Abt solution offers the promised performance, but can have realiability issues (both mechanical as well as electrical).......then you are lucky you have full warranty. MTM is similar to Abt, so in your country I would then go for the one with warranty. Sportec is respectable company, and of course you can also try APR, since they now offer worldwide local flashing service, but always ask for before/after power and torque measurements and see what happens AFTER 5500 rpm (that really changes behaviour of the car)!

Read more about a very good one (JD Engineering, programmed for your specific car) here (http://www.a5oc.com/forums/s5-performance-mods/21697-s5-tuning-upgraded-faulty.html) and look at the smooth power graph increasing until 6400 rpm!

ABT and MTM definitely DO NOT perform as well as APR, GIAC, or Revo, and certainly not above 5500rpms where the bypass valve still opens up. As I said, ABT and MTM are piggybacks rather than ECU flashes and on this particular platform, they are not very good options as the power gains aren't as good as ECU flashing and the gains are not reliable.

[helix139]

Did you drive one of these and/or did you have a look at the power curves as a result of the tune? If not, better not judge without any factual experience. See the results and dynoplots I posted elsewhere, and the increase of power ABOVE 5500 rpm, even without new pulley!

Have a look at this thread. Plenty of factual experience there....

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/372531-Official-MTM-Dyno-Speculation-Thread-Results-Coming-Tomorrow?highlight=voltron+MTM

Long story short, the MTM attempts to trick the ECU into adjusting timing, AFR, etc., but cannot adjust the bypass valve, and the ECU on the V6T seems to adapt to the piggyback and alter its signals to compensate, thus resulting in very inconsistent performance with sometimes negligible gains

I'm glad you're happy with yours, but after Voltron's experience, I'd like to see some numbers on a drag strip time slip. With the DSG transmission, the experience should be relatively dummy proof, even for someone without any prior experience. I can't exactly see your dyno plot anymore seeing as it was removed from the original thread.

[Rickson]

Actually I come from France and I live in North America for 6 years now. I have both experimented APR\REVO & MTM on different Audi Platform.
I can say that I am a way more impressed with APR\REVO than MTM in terms of performance, smoothing, and power curves.
MTM has a strong marketing, the 'name'... but is behind in the art of tuning. And the price are pure steal. Actually I hate the arrogance of european tuner vs NA tuners with the knowledge of tuners like APR , EPL, 034, VAST etc is just unique.

I drive both kind of cars to express this opinion. It is difficult to compare numbers on dyno because this not the same brand of dyno .

[ilas]

So, after a long time, I've done a stage 1 APR tuning. And I'm very happy!
Now, I'm going to put a Carbonio airbox (stage 2) instead of the stock one. And that's all.

[Stubek]

Find someone with a carbonio you can test drive. I had it for a year and it really is not worth it. Very little gain, not noticeable, and makes an annoying sound.

Stage 2 is actually a HFC or test pipe and full exhaust. The only thing Stage 2 software does is get rid of your check engine light for an O2 sensor error caused by the HFC or test pipe.

Honestly, take the money you would have used on a Carbonio and get sway bars. If you have those, get a HFC.

[ilas]

Thanks for your advice!