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View Full Version : 058/06a cam differences



redline380
04-23-2012, 07:29 AM
this is only getting to me now. i used an aeb head on my 06a block. switched everything over like i should. for some reason i used the vvt cct but i can always switch back to non vvt cct. my question really is what cam to use? my 06a cams out of an aug passat head were crap so i used the aeb cams, which were in nice shape. ecs shows the exhaust cams to be the same, but the intake cams different. so which cam is the proper one to run. if i have vvt hooked up will that affect the anything being the aeb intake cam is not vvt?

M-Hood
04-23-2012, 07:33 AM
Have you compared your 058 cams and 06A cams to each other side by side? Shouldn't be any real differences and it isn't like there are different aftermarket cams based on if you have a 058 or 06A.

guy022077
04-23-2012, 07:35 AM
i thought the gear was different not the cam?
remember the timing belts are 152 teeth or 153 pending on the cam gear.

redline380
04-23-2012, 07:39 AM
I have not compared them. i dont know anything about cams, so even if there were tiny differences i wouldnt notice them. i am just having a hard time keeping my timing belt to ride all the way on the pulley after a couple turns of the engine. i thought maybe the exhaust cams were different, but i guess not. then i discovered the intake cams were different, according to ecs, hence the thread. i should have just used the non vvt cct cause im pretty sure it was damn near brand new. the pads were in awesome shape, barely even marks on them. the vvt cct was pretty old, but ill keep the non vvt cct for spare.

redline380
04-23-2012, 07:40 AM
i thought the gear was different not the cam?
remember the timing belts are 152 teeth or 153 pending on the cam gear.

i am running the proper 06a cam gear. with an aeb head swap, you usually match everything else to the block. these things include cct, timing belt, head bolts, cam gear. the only aeb part you use is the actuall head and maybe the cams?

bw86
04-23-2012, 07:58 AM
Like Mike said, when I ordered my cams from IE - I didn't specify whether I had an aeb head or not so I wouldn't think the cams would be any different.

M-Hood
04-23-2012, 08:18 AM
i am running the proper 06a cam gear. with an aeb head swap, you usually match everything else to the block. these things include cct, timing belt, head bolts, cam gear. the only aeb part you use is the actuall head and maybe the cams?

Did you make sure you put the 06A cam gear on the correct way, because if you flipped it the wrong way the belt isn't going to stay on since the gear will be offset.

redline380
04-23-2012, 08:26 AM
Did you make sure you put the 06A cam gear on the correct way, because if you flipped it the wrong way the belt isn't going to stay on since the gear will be offset.

yes. the part number is facing away from the motor. it doesnt ride off that much, maybe an 1/8th inch or a little more. its just bothering me becuase it shouldnt be like that. every time i push it on farther, even on the water pump and crank pulley and turn the motor over a few times by hand, it starts to ride off

M-Hood
04-23-2012, 08:42 AM
yes. the part number is facing away from the motor. it doesnt ride off that much, maybe an 1/8th inch or a little more. its just bothering me becuase it shouldnt be like that. every time i push it on farther, even on the water pump and crank pulley and turn the motor over a few times by hand, it starts to ride off

So all of the gears/pulley are lined up?

redline380
04-23-2012, 08:46 AM
So all of the gears/pulley are lined up?

thats the thing. it looks like the gear is towards the head more than the other pulleys. that is why i thought maybe the cams were different lengths or something. i have yet to hear back from ie on this. i can post a picture in a few hours but it sure looks like the cam gear is off a little

bw86
04-23-2012, 08:53 AM
You sure you're using the right cam gear? The 06a has a spacer on it.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-01203202.jpg

M-Hood
04-23-2012, 10:01 AM
thats the thing. it looks like the gear is towards the head more than the other pulleys. that is why i thought maybe the cams were different lengths or something. i have yet to hear back from ie on this. i can post a picture in a few hours but it sure looks like the cam gear is off a little

Sounds like you have the cam pulley on backwards, the side that sticks out further needs to go toward the head which will put the teeth further way from the head. The flat side should face the radiator.

redline380
04-23-2012, 10:04 AM
Sounds like you have the cam pulley on backwards, the side that sticks out further needs to go toward the head which will put the teeth further way from the head. The flat side should face the radiator.

that's the way it is....

034Motorsport
04-23-2012, 10:30 AM
So far as I know, there isn't any life threatening differences between the cams themselves, despite having two different part numbers. They are interchangeable in the head, so I'm not sure exactly what has changed. The cam position windows are different and the cam gear like others mentioned, but so far as I know, the later cams are supposedly a bit more aggressive then the AEB, primarily because of the integration of VVT. That being said, I don't believe its a very noticeable change, and who knows; the lift/duration might be the same and that could be a rumor.

Do you plan on running VVT? Can't remember what ECU/Harness you are using.

redline380
04-23-2012, 10:58 AM
vvt is currently installed. next time the cams come out ill put in the non vvt cct. ill be running maestro, so is not a big deal either way. id jus like to get this damn belt to ride on the pulley all the way. this is what it looks like after i push the belt on all the way and rotate it it 720 degrees
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/redline380/temporary-11.jpg
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/redline380/temporary-10.jpg

bmarshall
04-24-2012, 01:49 AM
Thats how they run on the pulley.

Wet0willy01
04-24-2012, 07:16 AM
Mine was like that till I pushed it back on all the way around as I rotated it around- Including at the crank gear. i started by pushing it in between the cam gear and WP. Then as it rotated it I kept pushing on on the belt as it left the cam gear and as it started on the WP gear. Then I continued to do the same till pushing it on the crank gear. problem solved. I turned the motor over a ton of times since and it hasn't moved.

Wet0willy01
04-24-2012, 07:29 AM
http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee458/wet0willy01/photo-1936.jpg

before

I'll post pics later of after.

034Motorsport
04-24-2012, 09:28 AM
AEB head on 06A block

http://fototime.com/%7B7EEDE654-31BD-4FDC-8290-D82B1F4EF1A0%7D/origpict/IMG_6975A.jpg

redline380
04-24-2012, 10:37 AM
AEB head on 06A block

http://fototime.com/%7B7EEDE654-31BD-4FDC-8290-D82B1F4EF1A0%7D/origpict/IMG_6975A.jpg

this is what i want. do you think i should try running the belt the other direction? rai want to chime in or ie too?

Wet0willy01
04-24-2012, 10:58 AM
Mine sits like the photo Max posted now. Is your belt up against the outside of the ascentric roller? Mine was in picture I posted of the cam gear before I pushed it back....

redline380
04-24-2012, 11:25 AM
Is your belt up against the outside of the ascentric roller?

If it isnt, it is aweful close to sitting right against the lip. I have tried pushing it on many times, and i even tried various amounts of belt tension to no avail. The belt is almost up against the lower timing belt cover when riding on the crank pulley.

chris164935
04-24-2012, 11:40 AM
Are you using a manual timing belt tensioner or the hydraulic tensioner? It might be that your spacer is too thick if you are running the manual tensioner or that you put a spacer between the head and the tensioner if you are using the hyrdaulic one...

redline380
04-24-2012, 11:44 AM
Are you using a manual timing belt tensioner or the hydraulic tensioner? It might be that your spacer is too thick if you are running the manual tensioner or that you put a spacer between the head and the tensioner if you are using the hyrdaulic one...

im running the ie manual conversion with their tensioner. perhaps i have it in wrong? i just assumed the pulley sits in the recessed side of the spacer and the flat part goes to the block. i cant imagine it would be the other way around

034Motorsport
04-24-2012, 12:17 PM
im running the ie manual conversion with their tensioner. perhaps i have it in wrong? i just assumed the pulley sits in the recessed side of the spacer and the flat part goes to the block. i cant imagine it would be the other way around

Maybe I am visualizing this wrong since I do not have an IE manual conversion in front of me, but wouldn't what you just said move it over like you want?

redline380
04-24-2012, 12:20 PM
Maybe I am visualizing this wrong since I do not have an IE manual conversion in front of me, but wouldn't what you just said move it over like you want?

it would move it the wrong way. i need the belt closer to the block. I know theres nothing wrong with the cam gear cause the belt is riding off the water pump too. rai said i might have the belt too tight, but i tried loosening it already. ARRRGGHHH!

Wet0willy01
04-24-2012, 12:31 PM
the spacer recessed side does fit around the roller...you have it right with the flat against the block.

M-Hood
04-24-2012, 12:41 PM
it would move it the wrong way. i need the belt closer to the block. I know theres nothing wrong with the cam gear cause the belt is riding off the water pump too. rai said i might have the belt too tight, but i tried loosening it already. ARRRGGHHH!

That is why I asked if all of the gears/pulley lined up with each other. In one of your pictures the pulley is further in then the roller just below it. If the roller is to far out it is going to cause the belt to ride further out on the crank gear and cam pulley. The roller is what sets the position of the belt.

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/redline380/temporary-11.jpg

chris164935
04-24-2012, 01:00 PM
Can you take a couple pictures facing the tensioner setup?

redline380
04-24-2012, 01:12 PM
Can you take a couple pictures facing the tensioner setup?

I cant get a close up since im at school and work till eleven but i have this one on file. i tried putting the tensioner roller, not the pulley, on both ways but it seems like the bearing inside is equidistant inside.
http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/redline380/temporary-12.jpg

chris164935
04-24-2012, 02:07 PM
Tensioner looks properly installed. Might just be that the spacer is too thick. Possible a machining defect? I don't know, but give IE a call, they should be able to help you out.

redline380
04-25-2012, 12:30 PM
ive tried contacting both ie and rai. maybe i just need to try running it first