ECU software/tune detection by Dealerships/Audi

[Operator]

I haven't run into any issues, but after reading this, I wonder if the B7 is being looked at the same way: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/475100-Warning-Audi-voided-my-warranty-due-to-APR-flash

Cliffs: Car taken in for a TCB, dealer found tune, voided specfic parts of warranty. AOA now has something in place that can detect tuner software, and the info can be shared across dealership networks. If you have the time, please read the thread above, and share your thoughts, as I may have misunderstood a few things.

[Fastlane28]

Yeh it is one thing if you switch it back to stock but my question is did this member lock the system in stock mode? I have apr stage 2 and it is sitting at the stealership right now bc they are replacing my main seal and trying to get them to do the valve cover and figure out my tranny problem. They asked me when i first brought it in if it was stock? played dumb and said yeh just have an intake and exhaust. If any tech knows how to switch your programs using the cruise control stalk then ur fucked! Then they know its flashed... Plus IMO dont drive it their on 93 program.. switch to stock a day or two before so you store stock boost levels into the system. When they plug into the OBD port it shows hidden codes and if your car has been running at Stock fuel, psi , timing etc... I switch mine to stock mode 2 days before my appointment. Plus I bought the lockout program which I and only I can enter my code to be able to switch programs after you locked it out. You really have to be careful now bc once your flagged... Your flagged through out AOA and every dealership knows. Same goes with Mercedes, BMW, etc

[shiro1745]

^^ Wow, if that's true, many are screwed. It seems there's no way to hide it anymore, it's auto-detectable now.
It sucks.

[Charles.waite]

Who cares? Isn't everyones warranty up soon anyway?

Just stay on top of regular maintenance, DIY whenever possible, and stop being cheap bastards and assuming your tune doesn't affect other systems of the car... Quite simply, it does...

[Operator]

Who cares? Isn't everyones warranty up soon anyway?



Whoa, just sharing info?!? And I venture at some point many of us will move onto later model VAG cars, and thus have to deal with these changes...........

[drumnjuny]

a lot of things that are covered out of warranty may not be covered anymore [=(] i told my dealership straight up the car is tuned. good to know not to do that if i ever go back


edit: holy crap this happened at the dealership my car was originally bought at and all servicing done up till 50k... damn.

[Charles.waite]

a lot of things that are covered out of warranty may not be covered anymore [=(] i told my dealership straight up the car is tuned. good to know not to do that if i ever go back

Lol. Yea thats true I guess. The extended warranty stuff I feel like should be covered regardless, but who knows. I'm just glad I have a Customer-oriented dealer close by!

[bman005]

Getting the lock out is key. I've been told by a corporate rep to check the cruise stalk many times. And like its been stated before, once you're flagged you're screwed for the most part.

[Schweini]

Yeh it is one thing if you switch it back to stock but my question is did this member lock the system in stock mode? I have apr stage 2 and it is sitting at the stealership right now bc they are replacing my main seal and trying to get them to do the valve cover and figure out my tranny problem. They asked me when i first brought it in if it was stock? played dumb and said yeh just have an intake and exhaust. If any tech knows how to switch your programs using the cruise control stalk then ur fucked! Then they know its flashed... Plus IMO dont drive it their on 93 program.. switch to stock a day or two before so you store stock boost levels into the system. When they plug into the OBD port it shows hidden codes and if your car has been running at Stock fuel, psi , timing etc... I switch mine to stock mode 2 days before my appointment. Plus I bought the lockout program which I and only I can enter my code to be able to switch programs after you locked it out. You really have to be careful now bc once your flagged... Your flagged through out AOA and every dealership knows. Same goes with Mercedes, BMW, etc


Couldn't have said it any better myself. I've been bringing my car is and "locking it" to stock a day before. The one time I forget to switch a day in advance from running 93 and just switch it to stock in the Audi parking lot and not locking it, they found out. I went to pick up my car and the manager looks at me and said "your car sure doesn't feel like all the other 2.0 A4's". I played dumb and just said it must be my new K&N filter (lol), and he let me go fortunately.

But yes, beware

[doublezero30]

i shared my opinion in that thread. cliff notes of my opinion:

people are fucking idiots if they think the dealer shouldnt void warrenties for aftermarket, non-audi approved ECU software which could very easily damage components of the vehicle and clearly meant to push limits and deliver more power than what the vehicle was designed for.

shitty situation for those of us that enjoy modding our cars? yes. bad financial/ass covering move by audi? absolutely not.

regardless, the only way im going to own a car with a warrenty anytime soon is if i win the mega millions. and at that point, i will probably have a heavily moddified TT-RS or twin turbo R8 and a warrenty will mean shit to me anyway.

[Charles.waite]

i shared my opinion in that thread. cliff notes of my opinion:

people are fucking idiots if they think the dealer shouldnt void warrenties for aftermarket, non-audi approved ECU software which could very easily damage components of the vehicle and clearly meant to push limits and deliver more power than what the vehicle was designed for.

shitty situation for those of us that enjoy modding our cars? yes. bad financial/ass covering move by audi? absolutely not.

regardless, the only way im going to own a car with a warrenty anytime soon is if i win the mega millions. and at that point, i will probably have a heavily moddified TT-RS or twin turbo R8 and a warrenty will mean shit to me anyway.

Haha I feel the same way. I tend to think Warrantys are bullshit anyway, as I like the challenge of fixing things myself. For some people the idea of no warranty is terrifying. For me, its a challenge I'll gladly accept.

Proof: I own 2 out-of-warranty Audis. I must be crazy right? Because I'm definitely not Mr. Moneybags. [:)]

Honestly its why I prefer the B6 forum. There isn't a single person over there having shitfits about "ZOMG MY WARRANTYYYSSSS!!!1" people generally just suck it up and fix it. Generalization I know, but still, its kinda true.

Don't get me wrong though, I DO love the extended warranties my B7 still qualifies for, but I view them as a bonus rather than a right. I'll never bring my B6 to a Dealer though. The only time I brought it to one was less than a day after I bought it when some dumb 17y/o girl hit it when it was parked on the street outside my house. I'd owned it for literally 18 hours. I nearly had a heart attack.... Her insurance paid, so the dealer did the body work and paint. [:)]

[Operator]

Couldn't have said it any better myself. I've been bringing my car is and "locking it" to stock a day before. The one time I forget to switch a day in advance from running 93 and just switch it to stock in the Audi parking lot and not locking it, they found out. I went to pick up my car and the manager looks at me and said "your car sure doesn't feel like all the other 2.0 A4's". I played dumb and just said it must be my new K&N filter (lol), and he let me go fortunately.

But yes, beware


Well that may or may not work for B7's, but it seems for the B8 crowd, dealerships can find your software lockout mode or not. That's why I posted the link, just for those that may move on in the near future. Me personally, I've been out of warranty for awhile, and understand that the responsibilty falls on me should anything happen to my car.



Honestly its why I prefer the B6 forum. There isn't a single person over there having shitfits about "ZOMG MY WARRANTYYYSSSS!!!1" people generally just suck it up and fix it. Generalization I know, but still, its kinda true.


Maybe it's just me, but I don't really see people freaking out in the B7 section over warranties going out. And even if a few are, I presume the B6 section went though something similar back in 2007-2009 when the B6 warranties were expiring.

[naiku]

people are fucking idiots if they think the dealer shouldnt void warrenties for aftermarket, non-audi approved ECU software which could very easily damage components of the vehicle and clearly meant to push limits and deliver more power than what the vehicle was designed for.

shitty situation for those of us that enjoy modding our cars? yes. bad financial/ass covering move by audi? absolutely not.

It's amusing the number of people in that thread who think Audi should be fine with them modifying their vehicle. I am not saying it would not suck if I owned an S4 and lost my power train warranty, but if I lost it due to modifications I made to my car, then its my own fault. It kind of reminds me of people who complain about being caught speeding, guess what, if you did not speed, you would not get caught.


Honestly its why I prefer the B6 forum. There isn't a single person over there having shitfits about "ZOMG MY WARRANTYYYSSSS!!!1" people generally just suck it up and fix it. Generalization I know, but still, its kinda true

This is a pretty dumb generalization, given that the newest B6 is at this point going to be 7 years old. I bet the percentage of owners with remaining warranty in a B6 is far smaller than with a B7, which in itself will be far smaller than those with a B8. So of course there are going to be far fewer owners upset about losing their warranty.

[shiro1745]

My warranty it's been out for six months now and I'm not planning to sell my car, I get my hands dirty pretty often. Like operator said, he was just sharing the information and it's good to know this for future.

And of course it's not a good news, some people might even stay away from audi if the story it's true. Let's say I want to get a new car and have in mind the 2.0 b8. Would I still get it knowing I wouldn't even be able to install a chip? No, I would just rather get a more powerful car and leave it stock(335 for example).

[bman005]

And of course it's not a good news, some people might even stay away from audi if the story it's true. Let's say I want to get a new car and have in mind the 2.0 b8. Would I still get it knowing I wouldn't even be able to install a chip? No, I would just rather get a more powerful car and leave it stock(335 for example).

Why not just get an S4 and keep it stock then?

[Rodmar]

My warranty it's been out for six months now and I'm not planning to sell my car, I get my hands dirty pretty often. Like operator said, he was just sharing the information and it's good to know this for future.

And of course it's not a good news, some people might even stay away from audi if the story it's true. Let's say I want to get a new car and have in mind the 2.0 b8. Would I still get it knowing I wouldn't even be able to install a chip? No, I would just rather get a more powerful car and leave it stock(335 for example).

this, interior isn't that great, but 300hp stock twin turbo....and decent MPG,

[Rodmar]

Why not just get an S4 and keep it stock then?

s4 brand new's about 50
335 bout 48 with some good options, s4 might be about the same if you can get it at around invoice.

[rongeur]

3 weeks after I had the APR tune install, my PCV went bad. I switched to stock mode just prior and locked it and had no problem having it replaced for free. By all theories above and in that thread I should have been flagged and denied as the PCV failure is very likely directly related to the increased boost pressures. Using common sense and sticking with a reputable mod friendly dealer are our best options in any case.

Besides, tuning is worth it hands down, i cant even imaging driving stock again, it is laughable how slow the car is when I switch back.

[B72011]

There are Federal laws in place though where they have to show sufficient proof that your mods caused an issue. If there is a known problem or recall, say like a pcv valve on the 2.0T and your car was modded, I'd be vey very surprised if they failed to replace that. Keep that in mind when dealing with dealerships. In addition, I have faith the tuner community will find a way to hide the tunes in the future--its a REAL issue to their bottom line. I cant imagine APR wouldnt work night and day to solve the detection problem.

[yungcotter]

I was pissed when I got my tune done at waterfest last year they didn't add lock out and I paid for a fully loaded ecu. But when i took it in the last time i just put it into stock and left it didnt say anything or make a note of it on the invoice.

[flyingfish2626]

I think all the B7 guys are still fine, but if I had a B8 I would definitely be careful with warranty work. How much does APR charge for the lockout feature? I am pretty sure as long as you switch your chip a couple of days before service you are good to go. I know they can look at boost logs and if you consistently hitting 19 pounds of boost they know you aren't stock, even if you are on a stock program.

[wildcat333]

Reading that b8 s4 thread, and many other threads here on AZ, scare the shit out of me. I'm at 50k miles, and am interested in a tune. I'm thinking I might just get a Stasis tune and be done with all of this bullshit.

[jl87]

Reading that b8 s4 thread, and many other threads here on AZ, scare the shit out of me. I'm at 50k miles, and am interested in a tune. I'm thinking I might just get a Stasis tune and be done with all of this bullshit.

I'm with you. I'm CPO and am about 100 miles from my next required maint. I'm actually going to be trading the car in shortly, but I don't want to risk getting flagged and hurting my trade in value, or worse they don't want the car (unlikely).

[ENV²]

They will be manually inputting for stupid things such as STS kits etc and across all models not just the B8. Called my buddy SA today. If you have a mod friendly dealer they wont input manually. Tunes are out of the dealers hands

[doublezero30]

Apparently noone is reading that thread and just commenting without even knowing what the fck they're commenting about....

if you actually read the thread, the procedure for flagging cars is VERY new. Therefore, most of your previous trips to the dealer "in stock mode" don't mean shit.

[Operator]

If you have the time, please read the thread above

I did put a disclaimer [;)] "If you have the time" because it is a long thread.

[cupoange]

Couldn't have said it any better myself. I've been bringing my car is and "locking it" to stock a day before. The one time I forget to switch a day in advance from running 93 and just switch it to stock in the Audi parking lot and not locking it, they found out. I went to pick up my car and the manager looks at me and said "your car sure doesn't feel like all the other 2.0 A4's". I played dumb and just said it must be my new K&N filter (lol), and he let me go fortunately.

But yes, beware

Revo ftw

WHEN my car was still under warranty, I used to put it in stock mode that morning or the night before using the Revo SPS switch. drive to the dealer, drop it off, never had a problem. even had the obvious high flow cat. i had plenty of warranty work done (a few suspension things, leaking coolant, window regulator, etc). as soon as i drove the car off the lot i would pull over up the street and put it back in performance mode. without the sps switch there was no way to tell the car had a tune unless you checked the flash counter, or maybe dug deep in? all the performance maps are stored on the switch and loaded when you plug it in.

[GA42.0T]

if you actually read the thread, the procedure for flagging cars is VERY new. Therefore, most of your previous trips to the dealer "in stock mode" don't mean shit.

This is a good point. Whatever worked in the past may not work in the future.

[2007B7cabrio]

Why not just get an S4 and keep it stock then?

because the 335 has RWD and better balance than a S4...

I like Audi and do not like BMW inside, but if you want a drivers car BMW is still ahead of Audi, check out test with RS5 vs M3, the M3 is still ahead...

OP, thanks for the info

[2007B7cabrio]

crap a double post

[jimrobbington]

I do not see this affecting our coilpack recalls, or pcv, or intake flap. Where I see this being a problem, is with expensive shit, like cam/hpfp/follower. That is something that can be directly attributed to increased performance, and Audi will not want to pay a few grand out of pocket for some "idiot" increasing strain on that system, when it might not have failed in stock form.

Truth is, I will never own an Audi with a warranty, since I cannot afford such a luxury, so who gives a fuck? The B8 guys are the ones who should be scared. I would prefer a 5 year old platform anyway, so you know exactly what you are getting into. Also, did you see what those idiots are paying for a stage 1 tune? Lol. No thanks. I'll wait till prices are down.

JR

[mr shickadance]

meh....problem easily avoided:

1) give your monies to a mod friendly dealership
2) watch bad dealerships file bankrupcy
3)????
4) profit


all im saying is that give you money to a dealership that truly values your service, not the dealership that's closest to you, although if they are one in the same, good for you. i would easily drive 3 hours to another a dealership if they gave me better service, and treated me better....hell its a large monetary item....i bet if you go to a resteraunt and they serve you shitty you stop going there right?....the logic is universal

[shiro1745]

Apparently noone is reading that thread and just commenting without even knowing what the fck they're commenting about....

if you actually read the thread, the procedure for flagging cars is VERY new. Therefore, most of your previous trips to the dealer "in stock mode" don't mean shit.

You're right, the question is if it applies to B7 as well or just the new ECUs? I've read a lot of that thread, but didn't finish it all(very long), so I'm not sure if somebody mentioned this or not.

[Tanner]

Buddy has an uncle that works for Audi in Germany. From what I read and understand from him, this "TD1" thing isn't exactly new, well, new here but not in Europe.

They started doing this as a pilot project back in 2005, and went live with this around 2008 with the "TD1" detection. Then people got clever by swapping modified parts. If I read his message properly, Audi then counteracted that recently by looking up the vehicle's VIN number and then determining what components have been changed and such, guessing ECU being one of them.

The reason why they started this, and it's a valid reason IMO, is that they started to see a spike in transmission and engine warranty repairs in the high end models. They were able to determine that people were swapping out their modified part with the original part in order to get the repairs covered under warranty.

Note that a lot of the major tuners in Europe, like MTM, offers up their own warranty programs via a third party, because MTM is fully aware that their modifications does goes against Audi's warranty.

In the end, everything is detectable, it's just a matter of how much effort that Audi wants to do to find these things, and by the looks of it, the amount of warranty misuse which costs Audi in the end, was enough for them to start finding ways to find these changes. And this is the reason why I chose NOT to throw on a GIAC program on my car until the factory warranty expired (and opted not to go for the CPO warranty). Also, the letter from AOC regarding extended warranty on the HPFP, it also states in there that the extended warranty is not applicable to modified engines, which clearly applies to me, but doesn't really matter since I religiously check the cam follower to make sure that I don't end up with a messed up HPFP.

[naiku]

meh....problem easily avoided:

1) give your monies to a mod friendly dealership
2) watch bad dealerships file bankrupcy
3)????
4) profit


all im saying is that give you money to a dealership that truly values your service, not the dealership that's closest to you, although if they are one in the same, good for you.

While that's all well and good, the documentation Audi issued indicates that the car will be scanned in the background without the tech knowing it (while the tech scans for fault codes, another program runs that scans for ECU modifications), if this background scan detects the car is modified, it flags it in Audi's system. It does not matter how good of a relationship you have with your dealer, if Audi have your vehicle flagged as modified, and the dealership has to go through Audi for authorization / payment for warranty work, Audi will deny it based on the TD1 flag, and unless the dealer is into charity work (If you find one of those, be sure to let me know) then you either pay out of pocket or are SOL.

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/362/dscn0131b.jpg

Of course its different if you just have hardware mods (exhaust, intake etc), and get a tech who will not report them.

[VroomVroom]

JAFO... Kinda' funny, you can find nearly identical threads on just about any brand's enthusiast site. For us GM guys, it's all about CAN bus and the checksum action...which some guys figured buying a new PCM would solve the problem, until remembering that the TCM takes separate programming. Anyway...the song remains the same. Pick your mods carefully, understand the implications, read up a little on Magnuson-Moss, and pay attention to how your dealer's service dept. approaches such things. The most common fear seems to be that an entire warranty is invalidated...which just isn't true.

[mr shickadance]

hmm reading > me, i mean that def sucks, my b7 was modded 3 ways from sunday (i think a stage 3 would be 6 ways) but the dealership i went to always just laughed it off, i think they were just happy that i was not bringing my car in for something stupid like the bluetooth not working, or maybe that i was actually passionate about the car either way they were always very ok with whatever i did to my car.

[OtisA4]

There goes my plans of going stage 1 this year.

[Exanimas]

There goes my plans of going stage 1 this year.

Don't be a dummy, just do it.

I feel bad for anyone who isn't stage 1. My car recently lost my Revo settings for like a week before I corrected it and it's ridiculous how much more awesome the car is with a tune.

tl;dr Quit being vaginas and just go for it.

[tonys1832]

I'm just gonna get the Stasis tune, my dealer quoted me $600 out the door yesterday for it. 45hp and 30ib of torque is fine with me.

[VroomVroom]

^ I think that's a great call, FWIW. Performance and peace of mind...nice combo.

[jl87]

I'm just gonna get the Stasis tune, my dealer quoted me $600 out the door yesterday for it. 45hp and 30ib of torque is fine with me.
If they are scanning B7 ECUs you will still be flagged. Then if failures occur you get to argue with stasis about covering it...

[Charles.waite]

I agree with exanimas. Stop being pussies about warranties. If you want to get chipped, just do it. Fuck the dealer.

I would like to point out that I was right a bit earlier...[:D]

I don't get the attitude these days where people get pissed when they break their car and expect someone else to pay for it. Before all this class action bullshit I bet people had to payout of pocket to fix things that were probably manufacturing defects. I'm not saying those were better times by any stretch but people are just way too coddled by warranties these days. That somehow their car is a ticking time bomb when the warranty runs out.

[wildcat333]

I'm just gonna get the Stasis tune, my dealer quoted me $600 out the door yesterday for it. 45hp and 30ib of torque is fine with me.

http://www.stasisengineering.com/products/engine-tuning/engine-software-a4-20-2006-2008

$545.00 per the Stasis website. Do all tuning shops charge "labor" to "install" this tune? I thought they just hook it up to a computer for 20 minutes or so? I thought the prices listed usually indicate the total overall price?

[OtisA4]

Did you not read the thread?
Not going to risk voiding my 100k CPO warranty.


Don't be a dummy, just do it.

I feel bad for anyone who isn't stage 1. My car recently lost my Revo settings for like a week before I corrected it and it's ridiculous how much more awesome the car is with a tune.

tl;dr Quit being vaginas and just go for it.

[Charles.waite]

Did you not read the thread?
Not going to risk voiding my 100k CPO warranty.

[headbang]

I'm pretty sure he understands that. You realize your warranty still holds for everything not affected by the ECU right?

[B72011]

Well, to some extent these Audi's are ticking time bombs........
Some ticking bombs that are known to blow--sometimes early, sometimes late--some would argue poor design, some would argue usual mechanical failulre of high performance components.
Issues include:
Torque Convertor on Tiptronic Trans
ZF Auto 6 speed transmissions themselves --some about 150K
PCV valve
Intake Flap Motor
Cam Follower issues
Carbon buildup
Window Regulators
Control Arms

Did I forget something?

[A4-Wookie]

First thing that popped into my head after reading these threads is Justin Timberlakes "Cry me a river".


Everyone acts like its something new. ALL dealerships would cut your warranty if they found out you were modded, unless they were bad ass and didnt give a crap. Hell...Honda will void your warranty for an intake. My point....suck it up. Modding voids warranties, plain and simple. If you didnt have the brain to think it was a possibility....guess what, it always has been.

My mentality on modding has always been If ANYTHING on my cars isnt stock, a warranty will be voided. Intake, ecu, suspension, etc...

The dealer shouldnt void..say, suspension warranty over engine mods though (as an example). Bit its a stealership. They'll try to.

[wootwoot]

Well, to some extent these Audi's are ticking time bombs........
Some ticking bombs that are known to blow--sometimes early, sometimes late--some would argue poor design, some would argue usual mechanical failulre of high performance components.
Issues include:
Torque Convertor on Tiptronic Trans
ZF Auto 6 speed transmissions themselves --some about 150K
Window Regulators
Control Arms

Did I forget something?

Can you explain why you consider these ticking time bomb parts? I have been here for years and not heard of many issues with these. Mostly hear about the cam follower, pcv, intake flap motor, and carbon buildup.

[Charles.waite]

None of those are ticking time bombs.

The tranny issues maybe but you've got plenty of advanced warning. Personally I think Audi needs to sack up and do a recall, Transmissions/TCs SHOULD NOT be failing on 5 year old cars. Mine is completely stock and I struggle with hard shifting and TC lockup issues. Its a 2006...

Window regulators? Please. That happens to lots of cars. Older Audis too. Nothing new. Control Arms, same thing. It has to do with the suspension design and geometry. Also they are wear items and fairly cheap to replace.

If timing belts were snapping left and right before the change interval, thats a ticking time bomb. Cam follower = ticking time bomb. Most other issues, not so much. People are so damn stingy these days, they think they should get everything for free. Guess what? German engineers aren't infallible. They are humans too. Many of the choices they made in designing the car were deliberate. The suspension was designed the way it was to deliver a great driving experience and to make you feel connected to the road. The tradeoff is it complicated and it experiences wear on the moving parts.

This stuff is all normal.

[/Rant] ....maybe...

[Operator]

[/Rant] ....maybe...


nah, you'll be back [;)]

[Charles.waite]

nah, you'll be back [;)]

.....I know......I may have a......problem [=(]

[Exanimas]

[headbang]

I'm pretty sure he understands that. You realize your warranty still holds for everything not affected by the ECU right?

Thanks, as I do completely understand that. I refer all back to the tl;dr part of my post.

[eMacPaul]

The document posted said many "current" vehicles. I don't think the B7 falls under that category, although it could certainly be added in the future. But they might not bother going back to add this for older generations.

[cupoange]

The document posted said many "current" vehicles. I don't think the B7 falls under that category, although it could certainly be added in the future. But they might not bother going back to add this for older generations.

it's pretty simple, why is this such a discussion? if you care about your warranty, don't get flashed. if you're willing to risk it, get it flashed. not that difficult. everyone i've ever known that has had their car flashed has either been out of warranty or willing to accept the consequences if the dealer finds out. there is absolutely no guarantee that you can mod your car and have full warranty.

[grassrootz]

it's pretty simple, why is this such a discussion? if you care about your warranty, don't get flashed. if you're willing to risk it, get it flashed. not that difficult. everyone i've ever known that has had their car flashed has either been out of warranty or willing to accept the consequences if the dealer finds out. there is absolutely no guarantee that you can mod your car and have full warranty.

Basically the dealer does what they want. They don't like bad press and don't like to be talked about on forums the internet hell even calling AOA they prolly look for connections in the types of issues and calls.

I bought my car exactly as it sits today. No tune nothing due to the CPO warranty extension. I take her in for PCV and crazy codes all day after a rain event. They call me 20mins later asking if I was flashed. All the car has are tints(came with it) and a K&N so not to replace constantly. And W/M which I was told by a tech there would not cause issue and would continue to help with carbon issues since PCV has blow twice in about 15k. To my knowledge theres no way theres a flash but he TOLD me what apparently I had done with my eyes closed.

I will be calling AOA to make sure I am not flagged for a car that has never been flashed. Just looks really good and is well maintained. AOA needs to stop trying to short change us now due to a down turn in the economy and new car market. They are realizing many more people have the warranty extensions and are keeping the cars much longer therefore they are looking for any way to not pay warranty. The dealer makes chump change on warrantied items but moola on out of warranty work. So why go with the warranty if u can claim other things. Audi is just being dumb and paying attention to the people who show up fully kitted out and expect them to replace the turbo they just used a MBC to overboost and are using open air DVs. The tuner crowd is never looked at favorably. We tend to highlight the flaws in their product and undermine their advertising and many other things.


Ps// took them about 3 visits and $1000s of bs labor and parts to finally replace my HPFP, PRV, and PCV.....now the car has a crazy ass vibration... and its STILL throwing codes when it wants. Oh and turbo also is SEEVING(sp?) oil but they just replace gaskets cuz that should fix oil pooling into the SMICs and check oil like coming on within 1500 of each oil change....BUT according to the dealer theres nothing wrong...

[verd1465]

is the general feeling APR is the most reputable tune?

[Operator]

WOW, just WOW!!! http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/483146-T10-Vehicle-Has-Been-Tuned-Service-1000-4299-No-Allowed


Just got flagged with T10 Motor tuning/ racing car/ Extreme usage.


Cliffs: S4 owner has a previously owned S4 that "may" have had a higher flowing intake. Car was flagged during service. Powertrain warranty VOID.

Explanation: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/483146-T10-Vehicle-Has-Been-Tuned-Service-1000-4299-No-Allowed?p=7552341&viewfull=1#post7552341

[pat_do]

My car is tuned with APR Stage 1 93 Octane mode.

The Master Tech at Audi Laval, in Quebec Canada, and I are in trustful relationship meaning that before going for a test drive, I always tell him upfront what was done to the car and he said, TD1 codes are not a valid reason to completely void the warranty of the car whether its a CPO or still under warranty.

You guys are really exaggerating things on the forums and in the end, this is a case by case, dealer by dealer call.

Just find a mod friendly dealer, get to know their business and be honest about it.

I got the PCV valve replaced, fuel filter replaced, whole climate control unit replaced, checked intake motor flap (not eligible for the recall since my car is a 2008), and a bunch of other dealer recalled fixed.

Heck, he even swapped my 4 spokes MFSW with a my 2011 MFWS sports steering wheel that I was planning to do later...for free.

I only had to pay for the premium for the CPO which is 100$ plus taxes in Canada.

[Operator]

Did you read my post right above yours?!? The guy just dropped his car off, and during a scan the car sent a code to Audi, by-passing the dealer, mod friendly or not.


He stated they are a mod friendly shop and did not note any changes and never will so this is not the dealerships fault.

He stated the car was scanned and it was returned by audi with that code which is why he didnt even know about it until i asked him today. The code returning by audi is a new procedure (as you all may know) and started early march he believes which is why it never showed on any of my previous invoices.



Now for our cars (B7's) I don't think we have much to worry about, as most of us are out of warranty anyway. But for those planning on moving into B8 A4/S4's, A5/S5's, etc it's good info to know.

[jsandor91]

i just got my car back from princeton audi a few days ago and they were surprisingly very cool with me not being stock. the guy who test drove my car after they fixed everything (cam, cam follower, fuel pump, pcv and intake flap motor) just grinned and said your not stock. between my unitronic keychain and my downpipe that still rattles, nothing was really hidden lol. ironically he just chipped his a5 with unitronic [up]

[funky_snowman]

have we seen any b7's get flagged? all i've read about are b8 s4's.

[Operator]

have we seen any b7's get flagged? all i've read about are b8 s4's.


No, and I doubt we will. Like I've said, I mainly made this thread for info's sake. Many in the B7 crowd will eventually move on, and when they do, they need to know that things have changed when it comes to modding.

[funky_snowman]

well it certainly makes the a4/a5's sound less appealing.

[Charles.waite]

I think for cars like the S4 with expensive and easily tunable engines this will be much more of an issue. For Those Of Us Who Like Our Engines Small, Cheap And Tunable (TM biches, don't even try to steal this acronym vbrad!) I don't think its gong to be quite as big an issue as a 2L 4-cylinder engine with a cheap Turbo will NEVER be as expensive to fix/replace/do major work to as a V6 or V8. Not saying the 3.0t is actually that expensive, but its definitely more so than the 2.0t.

[wildcat333]

Stop being pussies about warranties. If you want to get chipped, just do it.


I think you must have seeped into my subconscious! Because I decided a few weeks ago to stop being a pussy and just did it! Stage 1 FTW!

[wootwoot]

have we seen any b7's get flagged? all i've read about are b8 s4's.

+5000

So many people get paranoid here but not 1 single B7 has reported back as being flagged. I have seen a number of B8s but no B7s. If someone can prove otherwise I would love to see it.

[Operator]

+5000

So many people get paranoid here but not 1 single B7 has reported back as being flagged. I have seen a number of B8s but no B7s. If someone can prove otherwise I would love to see it.


People are not ready my posts........ I didn't create this thread because I thought B7's were getting tagged. I figured some people don't venture away too much from the B7 forum, and thus didn't know about Audi's new methods. This is a forum where information is spread. And that was my only intention here. This is a new tactic Audi has implemented. So for anyone that plans to get another Audi in the future, they need to understand that it's not the "same ole, same ole".

[wootwoot]

This is a new tactic Audi has implemented. So for anyone that plans to get another Audi in the future, they need to understand that it's not the "same ole, same ole".

With these new tactics I won't be purchasing an audi in the future [mad]

[Operator]

With these new tactics I won't be purchasing an audi in the future [mad]

Yeh, my issue is I'm HOOKED on modding. So be it another Audi after this or savings account blooming!!!!! a Porsche, I'm going to mess with it either way. I figure when I'm 50 it might be out of my system. But if I got a 991 today, you can bet I'd be in line for a tune.....

[shiro1745]

I'm with Operator on this, it's great info to know.
I've been always thinking that my next car would be a 335 then when found out how expensive the bmw parts are I tought a B8 would be another option, but after knowing this, I don't think so. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before all the expensive car manufacturers(and why not cheap ones too) do the same thing.

[Tanner]

With these new tactics I won't be purchasing an audi in the future [mad]

Porsche, BMW, Subaru, Audi, they're all the same, it's just not Audi. If you want to do mods to the engine then be prepared to pay up if something goes wrong.

[yungcotter]

Porsche, BMW, Subaru, Audi, they're all the same, it's just not Audi. If you want to do mods to the engine then be prepared to pay up if something goes wrong.

This there's all doing it. BMW has been for some time with 335s. But I only see the ability to mod getting bigger. With all the new fuel economy regulations and standards all the manufactures are moving to smaller forced induction engines. I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes is doing the same thing with its new TT V8s.


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[datwagn]

thats why i went with the GIAC software. apparently its undetectable by the dealerships.
ive taken my car in for scheduled maintenance multiple times and they havent said anything about it

[Tanner]

I'm not sure if they are specifically scanning for changes in the ECU on the B7, but whatever they're doing they can pick up any slight changes in the ECU on the B8 A4. IMO, there is nothing that is completely invisible anymore.

Also while they continue to do scheduled maintenance like oil changes, filter changes, etc., a modified ECU might not have any bearing on these things. What may be impacted is if you need to get warranty work done.

[AudiA4_20T]

Yeh it is one thing if you switch it back to stock but my question is did this member lock the system in stock mode? I have apr stage 2 and it is sitting at the stealership right now bc they are replacing my main seal and trying to get them to do the valve cover and figure out my tranny problem. They asked me when i first brought it in if it was stock? played dumb and said yeh just have an intake and exhaust. If any tech knows how to switch your programs using the cruise control stalk then ur fucked! Then they know its flashed... Plus IMO dont drive it their on 93 program.. switch to stock a day or two before so you store stock boost levels into the system. When they plug into the OBD port it shows hidden codes and if your car has been running at Stock fuel, psi , timing etc... I switch mine to stock mode 2 days before my appointment. Plus I bought the lockout program which I and only I can enter my code to be able to switch programs after you locked it out. You really have to be careful now bc once your flagged... Your flagged through out AOA and every dealership knows. Same goes with Mercedes, BMW, etc

APR "stock" is not stock


Well, to some extent these Audi's are ticking time bombs........
Some ticking bombs that are known to blow--sometimes early, sometimes late--some would argue poor design, some would argue usual mechanical failulre of high performance components.
Issues include:
Torque Convertor on Tiptronic Trans
ZF Auto 6 speed transmissions themselves --some about 150K
PCV valve
Intake Flap Motor
Cam Follower issues
Carbon buildup
Window Regulators
Control Arms

Did I forget something?

You own a car...


is the general feeling APR is the most reputable tune?

Nope they just spend the most money on marketing

[Operator]

Another one nabbed: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/490943-My-cars-been-flagged-and-denied-warranty

[wootwoot]

Sounds like tuning companies need to go back to physically chipping cars. At least then nothing is changed on your ECU and you can take the aftermarket chip out before going to the dealer.

[wildcat333]

Sounds like tuning companies need to go back to physically chipping cars. At least then nothing is changed on your ECU and you can take the aftermarket chip out before going to the dealer.

won't happen. doesn't really matter though. this thread plus the other huge thread on the b8 section talks about the pros and cons of tuning versus warranty expectations.

[bman005]

The ecm stores "Flash Status" in the identification which is readily available with any VAG scan tool. In with flash status on newer cars it stores a date as well as the number of times the ecm has been flashed. Warranty flashes are easily Identified because warranty service records are stored in ELSA web for each individual VIN along with the date they were done and what dealer they were done at. The newer the car the more data that the ecm stores and the easier it is for your dealer to find it.


Bottom line is flashing your ecm is playing russian roulette with your warranty and you can't be too upset if you knowingly do something that can void your warranty and then get caught and lose the warranty. Just my .02 on the matter

[ericpaulyoung]

that is why I immediately drove home and did stuff to void my warrenty, that way I don't have to worry about it anymore.
- Eric

[wootwoot]

won't happen.

Why not?



doesn't really matter though.

Sure it does, if you could remove a physical module and return your car to stock with no signs of flashing you suddenly have warranty coverage that any flash would deny you.




this thread plus the other huge thread on the b8 section talks about the pros and cons of tuning versus warranty expectations.

And with no TD1 code the pro is that you can get warranty/TSB items taken care of without fear. There are a number of parts on these cars that have extended warranties or go bad prematurely. With or without a flash these parts are failing, why should you have your warranty coverage denied for a known bad part?

[2004.1.8T]

I think people are overreacting to some dealership scare tactics. Research the Magnuson-Moss Act guys. Dealers cant unilaterally void your warranty because of a mod, flash, or tune just because its there.

[AudiA4_20T]

I think people are overreacting to some dealership scare tactics. Research the Magnuson-Moss Act guys. Dealers cant unilaterally void your warranty because of a mod, flash, or tune just because its there.

That's cool man. If you can pay for the lawyers to defend against Audi, you *might* win

[bman005]

I think people are overreacting to some dealership scare tactics. Research the Magnuson-Moss Act guys. Dealers cant unilaterally void your warranty because of a mod, flash, or tune just because its there.

TD1 doesn't void your warranty as a whole. There is a "warranty bulletin" that states that before repairs on a flagged vehicle can be performed that the dealer must contact the warranty helpline to determine whether or not the repairs will be covered.

For example: A TD1 flagged car with a bad N80 would probably covered because a tuned ecm would not cause the N80 to fail. On the other hand if your ecm is tuned and your turbo blows up coverage will most likely be denied since the tune alters turbo operation to allow for more boost

[2004.1.8T]

TD1 doesn't void your warranty as a whole. There is a "warranty bulletin" that states that before repairs on a flagged vehicle can be performed that the dealer must contact the warranty helpline to determine whether or not the repairs will be covered.

For example: A TD1 flagged car with a bad N80 would probably covered because a tuned ecm would not cause the N80 to fail. On the other hand if your ecm is tuned and your turbo blows up coverage will most likely be denied since the tune alters turbo operation to allow for more boost

Perfect example of how the law is applied in real-life circumstances. Its just funny to hear people rant about how their entire warranty is instantaneously void once they "detect" an ECM tune. Maybe if AOA tuned our cars properly we wouldn't need to get tuned as soon as we purchase our cars. Case in point, I went to get a Revo flash within 24 hours of owning my car because going from a tuned B6 to a bone stock B7 was unbearable.

[inspiration]

Perfect example of how the law is applied in real-life circumstances. Its just funny to hear people rant about how their entire warranty is instantaneously void once they "detect" an ECM tune. Maybe if AOA tuned our cars properly we wouldn't need to get tuned as soon as we purchase our cars. Case in point, I went to get a Revo flash within 24 hours of owning my car because going from a tuned B6 to a bone stock B7 was unbearable.

Interesting thing I heard the other day from a friend of mine who has a Shelby Mustang 07'. He said that ford now has a way to tell if an ECU was ever RE Flashed. In other words, if you flash ECU so your car is tuned, then flash it back to stock, Ford can tell that a flash was done on whatever date and if they did not do the re flash they void the power train warranty. Hopefully Audi doesn't have this ability.

[2004.1.8T]

They cannot legally void your warranty simply because you tuned your car. An express warranty is very difficult to void, especially in a state like Massachusetts which is very "consumer friendly" (see, e.g., M.G.L c. 93A)

[bman005]

Interesting thing I heard the other day from a friend of mine who has a Shelby Mustang 07'. He said that ford now has a way to tell if an ECU was ever RE Flashed. In other words, if you flash ECU so your car is tuned, then flash it back to stock, Ford can tell that a flash was done on whatever date and if they did not do the re flash they void the power train warranty. Hopefully Audi doesn't have this ability.

they can as long as the car is new enough to store the date. 09 and up should be new enough for sure. But read my previous post, #85. That is the policy for a tuned ecm, the warranty is not void, coverage on a particular component may be denied if it is determined that the flash caused the failure

[CTAudiDriver]

So I was planning on bringing my car in to the dealer to have the recalls that came out 3-6-12 addressed, PCV, IMRC, and Fuel Pressure Sender and recently had the APR flash done.

Will the dealer still address the recall items even though its flashed? Looking for an answer from someone who has actually gone through with this if possible.

[jsandor91]

My cf and cams took a shit and they fixed it with , my rattling dp and tp as well as my uni stage 2 tune . So you should be ok

[Operator]

Looks like it may be our turn: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/532324-Denied-Cam-Follower-Replacement-due-to-TD1-flag-APR-Tuned

[Charles.waite]

I'll reiterate: OH NOES!!!! My warranties... [o_o]


[=(]

Truly does suck if a tune can nullify the Cam Follower extended warranty. Thats such an engineering fumble Audi owes ti to all b7 owners to replace that shit. Christ, even teh updated parts don't do anything to help according to my experience with having to replace my upgraded parts with the same upgraded parts...

[Operator]

I'll reiterate: OH NOES!!!! My warranties... [o_o]


[=(]


Well you already know I'm not worried about my non-existent warranty. Just putting the info out there.

[Charles.waite]

Well you already know I'm not worried about my non-existent warranty. Just putting the info out there.

I'm not worried about you Operator, haha. And more info is good I suppose. At least you're updating your thread with new info! [up]

[JPT]

Really, there are 2 major things to worry about. The Cam Follower and burning oil issues.

My '08 has had the rings and valves replaced within the last year due to oil consumption failing. I would be so pissed if I was flagged TD1 during that process.

[Operator]

At least BMW is acknowledging that people are going to tune their cars... http://www.autotrader.com/research/article/car-news/206371/new-bmw-335i-m-performance-pack-adds-power-and-torque.jsp

[Tanner]

Perhaps, but 20hp? Knock off 0.2s on your run to 60mph. Spend a bit more and get something from Dinan that packs a better punch and warranty also. I can get back 20 hp probably right now by doing a carbon cleaning LOL.

Anyways, i've always been curious about the whole relationship between ABT and Audi, know that ABT is one of Audi's racing customers but always wondered if there was anything more beyond that or not (probably not). Would be nice if ABT or somebody step in and do what Dinan does for BMW.

[jimrobbington]

At least BMW is acknowledging that people are going to tune their cars... http://www.autotrader.com/research/article/car-news/206371/new-bmw-335i-m-performance-pack-adds-power-and-torque.jsp

Sounds pretty nice, but that's not shit of an increase compared to an aftermarket tune.

Sent from my porcelain throne.

[QuattroJosh]

I've tuned a few cars thus far, and haven't had anyone tell me they're voiding my warranty. With that said, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that a dealership or any other mechanic for that matter would flag your vehicle if they absolutely didn't have to-it's not in their best interest to void your warranty. They get paid if they do the labor, etc. I've always laughed at the mechanics out there that go "sorry, I don't want your money-take your car somewhere else and have it worked on." That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Tanner]

quattrojosh - isn't it a bit more complex than that? If it's warranty work, the dealer recuperates the material and labour costs from AOA (or AOC here in Canada). If the warranty gets denied by AOA, then they don't reimburse the dealer though the mechanic will still of course get paid. I think this is the issue here. Hence why a lot of the time now as we've seen with B8 S4 that had an ECU tune, any work done if it's covered under warranty for example, must now get approved by AOA. If AOA deems that the turbo blew because of the ECU (and rightly so), then there not going to cover it under warranty.

[JPT]

I've tuned a few cars thus far, and haven't had anyone tell me they're voiding my warranty. With that said, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that a dealership or any other mechanic for that matter would flag your vehicle if they absolutely didn't have to-it's not in their best interest to void your warranty. They get paid if they do the labor, etc. I've always laughed at the mechanics out there that go "sorry, I don't want your money-take your car somewhere else and have it worked on." That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

They are forcing the dealerships to do it. It isn't up to them.

[GA42.0T]

And it's not even that AOA is forcing the dealers to do it.

They've built the scan into the process of getting any service work done at all. The dealer hooks the car up to computer to run diagnostics, pull service history, warranty coverage or whatever, and AOA automatically captures performance data of the car. It then analysis the data for markers of a tuned ECU. Out or range boost being the main one.

.... from the way I understand it from the various threads on the topic....

[Tanner]

And it's not even that AOA is forcing the dealers to do it.

Correct, this all came down from Audi AG. Audi isn't the only manufacturer doing this, others are doing something similar.

[Sveke0021]

Perhaps, but 20hp? Knock off 0.2s on your run to 60mph. Spend a bit more and get something from Dinan that packs a better punch and warranty also. I can get back 20 hp probably right now by doing a carbon cleaning LOL.

Anyways, i've always been curious about the whole relationship between ABT and Audi, know that ABT is one of Audi's racing customers but always wondered if there was anything more beyond that or not (probably not). Would be nice if ABT or somebody step in and do what Dinan does for BMW.

Isn't this what Stasis does for us????

Guys...reality check...we drive expensive ass cars. If they break its over $1,000 every time. I took 5 mins 11 years ago and said fuck it. Its gonna cost dough throughout owning a sick vehicle.

I suck it up and go for a drive to remind myself why I drive Audi and do this.

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[Tanner]

Not really an apples-to-apples comparison. The warranty on the car was not actually provided by Audi but rather through the dealer and through some arrangement with Stasis. I've heard some people that had to still go through the trouble of getting something covered under warranty. With this moddest 20hp increase from BMW, it's from BMW and BMW themselves continue to provide the full warranty. I could be wrong but that's my understanding with the Stasis/Audi arrangement.

In Europe, I think the only thing that would be as close to Dinan for BMW would be MTM. You can purchase through them warranty coverage that they handle, because they know that the things they do to the cars invalidate the factory warranty.

[Sveke0021]

Not really an apples-to-apples comparison. The warranty on the car was not actually provided by Audi but rather through the dealer and through some arrangement with Stasis. I've heard some people that had to still go through the trouble of getting something covered under warranty. With this moddest 20hp increase from BMW, it's from BMW and BMW themselves continue to provide the full warranty. I could be wrong but that's my understanding with the Stasis/Audi arrangement.

In Europe, I think the only thing that would be as close to Dinan for BMW would be MTM. You can purchase through them warranty coverage that they handle, because they know that the things they do to the cars invalidate the factory warranty.

Makes sense. Thanks.

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