1/11/2012! Cobb Tuning (Fountain Valley), dyno my VAST RS6 turbo'd B5 S4 Avant...

[280zforce]

Going down around 3pm if anyone in the area wants to come watch... just putting it out there.

LOCATION & TIME HAVE CHANGED! COBB's dyno broke this morning.

WHEN AND WHERE:
January 11, 2012 @ 3pm

GMG
3210 S. Shannon St.
Santa Ana, CA 92704

I'm currently running 21 psi on pump 91.

RESULTS ARE IN!

466 awhp/474 ft-lbs tq adjusted to SAE dynojet industry standards.

It was run on a mustang dyno... reads 13% less than the SAE dynojet dyno industry standards. GMG performed this test thousands of times by running the same cars on both dynos on the same day and same temps, etc. It was ALWAYS ~13% difference.

It made 405.7 awhp/412.3 awtq which equates to 466 awhp/474 ft-lbs tq on a dyno jet or any other dyno.

Here's the video and the results as promised!


http://youtu.be/xPJVAYDb4QI?hd=1

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Hodges.jpg

My list of mods...

ENGINE:
-(2) RS6 Turbos
-(2) ASP 3" SS Downpipes
-Custom Tru-Dual 3" Exhaust System
-(2) ER Side Mount Intercoolers with Carbon Fiber Shrouds
-Vast Fueling & Tuning (2 tunes - 18 & 21 psi)
-RS4 Intake Camshafts
-Vast Phenolic Intake Spacers
-RS4 Inlet Pipes
-APR Bi-pipe
-13 row Morcal Oil Cooler and SS Braided Lines
-Samco Silicone Hose Kit
-Vast Water/Meth Injection
-710n Diverter Valves
-X-1 Carbon Fiber Intake Box
-Vast MAF Sensor
-AEM Cone Air Filter
-Vast Snub Mount
-ASP Driveline Stabilizer
-Vast Stage 3 Clutch
-Stasis Torsen Center Differential
-Carbon Fiber Engine Covers

BRAKES/SUSPENSION/WHEELS:
FRONT BRAKES:
-Alcon 6-piston Calipers with 370mm (14.57") Slotted Rotors
REAR BRAKES:
-Stop-Tech 2-piston Calipers with 328mm (12.91") Slotted Rotors with Stop-Tech Parking Brake Calipers (not installed yet)
SUSPENSION:
-H&R Street Coilovers
-Hotchkiss Rear Sway Bar
WHEELS:
-19"x8.5" +35 Avant Garde Type-310 Wheels (powdercoated in Matte Sun Gold)

EXTERIOR:
-Sliding Sunroof
-OEM RS4 Front Bumper
-OEM RS4 Grille
-Front Fenders have been pulled & rolled
-Depo D2S Black Headlights with clear corners
-Morimoto 50w/6000k HID kit
-Clear Air80 Tint on Front Windshield
-Medium Tint on Front
-Limo Tint on all Rear Windows
-Tinted Taillights
-Tinted Side Markers
-LED Reverse Lights
-Thule Roof Rack with Locks/Keys
-Thule 555 Fairing (RARE) wrapped in carbon fiber vinyl with new install hardware
-Black Audi Grille Emblem
-Black Audi Hatch Emblem
-Black/Red S4 Hatch Emblem

INTERIOR:
-OEM Winter Package with heated seats, rubber floor mats & ski bag
-OEM Black Leather Seats
-Belt-line wrapped in Carbon Fiber Vinyl
-LED Interior Lights
-VDO Vent Boost Gauge
-Rear Cargo Net


The car...

CLICK PICS TO ENLARGE...

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/th_IMG_4418.jpg (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/IMG_4418.jpg) http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/th_IMG_4428.jpg (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/IMG_4428.jpg) http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/th_IMG_4426.jpg (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/IMG_4426.jpg)
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/Before/th_IMG_3860.jpg (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/Before/IMG_3860.jpg) http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/Before/th_8.jpg (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Audi%20S4%20Avant/Before/8.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bPr0G6TjU4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm3GrA8ElXo

[Slave IV]

Damn, dual 3"? Any reason why and do you have clearance issues? Most dual 2.5" hang too low for my liking and I'm panning on single 3.5" for my build.

Anyways, nice car, have fun!

[jballou]

I think you will do 415awhp. Just a guess, let us know.

[280zforce]

LOCATION & TIME HAVE CHANGED!

Cobb Tuning's dyno broke this morning, going to be down for a week or so.

Called GMG and was able to setup a 3pm dyno time for today!

[skiracerblah]

I think GMG has a mustang dyno which will read a lot lower compared to other dyno's.

[Slave IV]

I think GMG has a mustang dyno which will read a lot lower compared to other dyno's.

More conservative is better imo...main thing is getting a good comparison.

[oc-drop]

LOCATION & TIME HAVE CHANGED!

Cobb Tuning's dyno broke this morning, going to be down for a week or so.

Called GMG and was able to setup a 3pm dyno time for today!
things happen for a reason. GMG is a much better shop to be using for the S4- even if it is just to dyno. They know what to look for especially since you may need some tuning...

[Audi Skate Snow]

I should go when you go... maybe we can get a discount. I should break 430+whp but not completely done tuning.

[Slave IV]

I'd love to see Fabryce's face when someone brings up "discount" there[;)]

[280zforce]

I think GMG has a mustang dyno which will read a lot lower compared to other dyno's.
Correct. They used to run this same exact Mustang dyno and a dyno jet. They ran several cars everyday, same car on both dynos around same time and temp for a long time to determine the difference factor. GMG told me it's been 13% less on a Mustang dyno every time for cars under 700 whp or so and more of a difference for cars with more than that.

[MilesM]

Were you in Topanga canyon yesterday or the day before? I saw a black avant with gold wheels, cant remember which day

[yonseispeed]

[az] lol

[280zforce]

RESULTS ARE IN!

466 awhp/474 ft-lbs tq adjusted to SAE dynojet industry standards.

it was run on a mustang dyno... reads 13% less than an SAE dynojet dyno standard. it made 405.7 awhp/412.3 awtq which equates to 466 awhp/474 ft-lbs tq on a dyno jet or any other dyno.

[Audi Skate Snow]

So you made 405whp not 466whp.

Still very impressive on a mustang. Congrats.

[misc720]

The GMG dyno is very conservative. Many B8 S4s are putting down 320 stock and I put down 277 at GMG.

Your numbers are sick. Congrats.

[Audi Skate Snow]

Yea Mustangs aka "heart breakers" are conservative

405 on a mustang is pretty damn impressive.

[Slave IV]

Nice! Are you going to post dyno graphs?

[fatezero]

Hmm, I just saw you driving on the 91 E the other day. I was in the lowered Allroad with black wheels.

BTW, nice numbers. Stg 3 S4's typically do around 360awhp on their dyne is 400+ is very good. I should run you in my B8 S4, it would be a good match

[280zforce]

Nice! Are you going to post dyno graphs?
Yes, I will post a graph and a vid soon.

[280zforce]

Hmm, I just saw you driving on the 91 E the other day. I was in the lowered Allroad with black wheels.

BTW, nice numbers. Stg 3 S4's typically do around 360awhp on their dyne is 400+ is very good. I should run you in my B8 S4, it would be a good match
I spotted you as well, clean looking All-Road! I figured you were on the forums with a car looking that good.

I'll post this pic of you in the So Cal sightings, been meaning to...

CLICK PIC TO ENLARGE

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/th_4c8a0415.jpg (http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/4c8a0415.jpg)

Run me while you can, the car is being sold soon. Whereabouts in OC are you located? I'm mostly in Corona now, in the process of moving.

[fatezero]

I am actually in Corona off Green River. I know the prior owner of your car rather well. We were just talking about it. I think he wants it back ;)

Btw, are you interested in parting with that roof rack? ;)

[Turtle]

How much was it to Dyno at GMG? If you dont mind me asking. I need to get mine dynod. Those numbers are fucking ridiculous @ 21 psi.

[280zforce]

The GMG dyno is very conservative. Many B8 S4s are putting down 320 stock and I put down 277 at GMG.

Your numbers are sick. Congrats.
That proves the point exactly of the ~13% difference factor. If you add 13% to 277 you get 318+. Depending on what your # was exactly.

And thank you, I'm quite happy with it too [:D]

[280zforce]

I am actually in Corona off Green River. I know the prior owner of your car rather well. We were just talking about it. I think he wants it back ;)

Btw, are you interested in parting with that roof rack? ;)
Funny thing is the car is sold to someone in MI, where the PO lives. Although, they do not know each and are about 3 hours apart.

I'm keeping the roof rack for the next avant I get soon [;)] New owner didn't want it anyway.

[280zforce]

How much was it to Dyno at GMG? If you dont mind me asking. I need to get mine dynod. Those numbers are fucking ridiculous @ 21 psi.
They normally charge $195 for 3 pulls @ GMG, Cobb was going to charge me $100 for 3 pulls (also on a mustang dyno)... I let GMG know that Cobb referred me (one their dyno broke) and that I know so and so over there and they decided to charge me $150.

[Extreme-AutoWerks]

Nice numbers J ! let me know when you have time to come by the shop.

[Turtle]

So wait, Were those pulls on Meth?

[280zforce]

So wait, Were those pulls on Meth?
I turned my w/m controller off for the 1st run, and turned it on for the 2nd run... had the same exact #s. My w/m system has a leak somewhere and it just sprays out, so I'm not too sure how much of it actually went into the system (if any) considering the #s were almost identical.

[skiracerblah]

I saw a 600HP Mitsu 3000GT engine blow on a dyno cuz the meth hose popped off during the pull and the ECU didn't have proper fail safes. Hope you got your failsafes covered.

[280zforce]

I saw a 600HP Mitsu 3000GT engine blow on a dyno cuz the meth hose popped off during the pull and the ECU didn't have proper fail safes. Hope you got your failsafes covered.
His tune and engine must've relied HEAVILY on that meth then, I'm not pushing the envelope with the current tune. It's safe and I can run it with no meth just fine. The map settings are the same, I did not make a tune that relies heavily on meth.

The o-ring on the nozzle wears out after awhile because it gets hot being near the engine is all.

[skiracerblah]

ya, for the meth his tune was set for very aggressive timing and boost. So, when the meth line popped off, he was essentially running his aggressive tune, but with pump gas only flowing thru the engine. Then, Kaboom!

Here's a good meth failsafe device example on an Evo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPzBp-ch6to&feature=player_embedded

[skiracerblah]

Here's another failsafe measure that's been done with a modified stock ECU. The ECU somehow senses the methanol not flowing anymore, and automatically switches to the pump gas tune. They do this test by doing a pull on the dyno and pulling the fuse out on the meth pump
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_vgzv1huM&feature=player_embedded

[280zforce]

Damn, dual 3"? Any reason why and do you have clearance issues? Most dual 2.5" hang too low for my liking and I'm panning on single 3.5" for my build.

Anyways, nice car, have fun!
Yup... dual 3" and because I can lol. The only issues are with massive speed bumps, other than that... all good. They are tucked up pretty well except towards the end 1 of the hangs kinda low, that's the 1 that touches some of the larger speed bumps, but it's not bad.

A single 3.5" might be just as low as I've got this one at.

My plan was to build a single 4.5" oval setup all the way back for maximum clearance and performance.

[280zforce]

Were you in Topanga canyon yesterday or the day before? I saw a black avant with gold wheels, cant remember which day
Nope, wasn't me.

[280zforce]

Here's the video and the results as promised!


http://youtu.be/xPJVAYDb4QI?hd=1

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/280zforce/Hodges.jpg

[skiracerblah]

That's one badass wagon :P

[280zforce]

So I've been thinkgin and my car should definitely be making more power... there's a big dip in the dyno graph, plus coupled with my w/m leak and my w/m controller only goes to 20 psi when I'm boosting 21 psi. So I think the w/m shuts off as I'm peaking in power and through 1/2 my pull. Yo can see the meth misting out from under the car during the pulls and see it spraying out in the front video right under the front engine cover.

[phila_dot]

The dip is likely cam changeover.

Your meth controller isn't going to shut off the pump if you exceed 20psi. You just can't set max spray to be any higher than 20psi.

I don't understand why you are adding the 13% to your numbers and making excuses. You ran what you ran.

They are impressive numbers.

[fatezero]

wat??? cam changeover? wow, that's a first...even if there was a "cam changeover", why would it drop in power?

You can't accurately say what the cause of the dip is without logs. Notice how your PSI is dropping at the same time, so it is most likely something related to boost. What tuning do you have? I guarantee you that if you had an EPL file in your car you would be making 420+ on that dyno if not more...Stg 2 B5 RS4 makes 420awhp on that Dyno so there is no reason why you can't be making that with the right setup

If you need help, I have ecux and I also carry EPL tunes if you want to take it to the next level ;)




The dip is likely cam changeover.

Your meth controller isn't going to shut off the pump if you exceed 20psi. You just can't set max spray to be any higher than 20psi.

I don't understand why you are adding the 13% to your numbers and making excuses. You ran what you ran.

They are impressive numbers.

[280zforce]

The dip is likely cam changeover.

Your meth controller isn't going to shut off the pump if you exceed 20psi. You just can't set max spray to be any higher than 20psi.

I don't understand why you are adding the 13% to your numbers and making excuses. You ran what you ran.

They are impressive numbers.
I'll look into cam changeover. I wasn't sure about the meth controller, it was installed by a shop for the previous owner and he wasn't sure of that aspect either. I still have a good size leak that sprays meth everywhere outside of the engine.

I'm not saying the mustang #s aren't impressive, they are and I posted them, no hiding anything... all I did was factor in the whp of which where it'd be with SAE industry standards compared to a mustang dyno. It's a comparison to show the difference of a Mustang dyno vs. an SAE dyno.

There's no excuses to be made with the 13%, it is what it is and is proven... EVERYBODY knows mustang dynos run lower #s compared to an SAE dyno standard, the dynojets are the SAE industry standard for a reason. So in order to get the true approx # according to the standards, you exchange the rate of power to what it should read. You adjust #s to be to the standards in any field. Common sense right?

[phila_dot]

wat??? cam changeover? wow, that's a first...even if there was a "cam changeover", why would it drop in power?

Seriously?

This is the only web reference I could find.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Cam_changeover_effect_on_requested_boost

[oc-drop]

doesn't the 30v motor have VVT? which may be the "cam changeover" mentioned

i remember on the 2.8 30v with pes supercharger, some guys pulled the connector off for vvt on the front of the engine because of similar issues

[fatezero]

ok, come on...the reality is that the car is most likely over boosting and that would explain the power jump. Old VAST files are known to over boost which is why a lot of cars ran MBCs in parallel. I have NEVER in my 12 years of owning and tuning S4s ever seen a cam changeover illustrated on a dyno. Again, no one can say anything definitive without logs but I would bet $100 it's over boosting

[phila_dot]

You have been "tuning" this platform basically since it's inception and this is new to you?

I see this in logs all of the time.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/michael66899/image218.png

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/michael66899/image277.png

Http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=426.msg6753#msg6753

[fatezero]

Who the hell said I tune? And your logs not only don't tell me crap, it's pretty obvious you have no clue what they say either. Move on dude

Like I said, neither YOU nor I will know exactly what is going on without logs. And you suffer from reading fail, I said I have not seen it myself on the dyno. I didn't say logs. I don't deal with nefmoto

[fatezero]

I guess my cars come with the secret euro non-changeover cam...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/adamb1923/Logs/laserred_76deg_Rev1_vs_basefile_7875_image002.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/adamb1923/Logs/9_11_10_75deg_12987_image002.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/adamb1923/Logs/Allroad%20Logs/Baillie_K04_Allroad_Run12_18974_image002.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/adamb1923/Logs/Flyboy%20vs%20Adam/image105.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/adamb1923/Logs/Rev2b%20Logs/10-28-2010_19191_image002.gif

[phila_dot]

I'm not sure why you are being so sensitive.

It is a fact that these cars have variable cam timing and that cam
postion is used in the calculation of load and ultimately boost and timing. This has been known to manifest as a notch in boost between 3k and 4k rpms.

In my opinion, the OP's dyno chart represents this.

This effect can be adjusted through tuning obviously. It does appear that you have a small notch in the graph you posted that remains below the MAP limit.

RELAX.

I read and comprehended what you said just fine. I do agree that logs would be much more conclusive.

[Slave IV]

vtec kick in yo!

[bigern45]

I agree, had my car dynoed on a dyno dynamics and a mustang dyno, and although the numbers were different, there was no funky surge or peak and then letdown... i guess its in the smoothness of the tune..

[auditech91320]

I'd love to see Fabryce's face when someone brings up "discount" there[;)]

ME TOO! its not in his vocabulary! That along with paid vacation...