Turning Traction Control (ESP) Off

[FLYINGLEGGS]

My goal is to figure out a way to turn traction control "all the way" off. I have talked to an Audi technician (and Audizine forum member), searched and read the manual and all over this forum. One of the related threads I found was this:
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/196982-Any-way-to-default-the-traction-control-system-to-OFF&sa=U&ei=UqTXToKKNsOw2wXap5SoDg&ved=0CBYQFjAJOAo&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEGXo-0qzSB3mh0ixC2aLt8rJhZbQ

The summary of this thread and a few others that I read is that you can only partially turn off the traction control on an A4.

My problem is part of the traction control kicking in on hard launches and hard shifts in to 2nd and 3rd. As many of you know there are several aspects of our traction control. My issue seems to be with the electronic throttle control cutting power due to certain parameters being crossed. The affect is bascally a bog. I know bogging is easy to do in any car. Especially an AWD turbo 4 cylinder. So my goal is to find a way to keep the esp from "assisting any bogging or fuel cutting while launching or shifting in to 2nd and 3rd under WOT.

So the question is:

Can you turn the next level of traction control off (beyond just pushing the ESP button)?
-Supposedly the pushing the button and holding it doesn't do anything on A4's.

Can the traction control be turned off via vag-com?

Any input would be appreciated.


EDIT: This is a great explanation of the system:
The ESP system consists of two systems;

One, traction control. It uses several onboard systems to monitor wheel spin via ABS, the actual speed the car is doing again via ABS, steering wheel angle via its own sensor and yaw rate via a roll sensor and finally EDL via again the ABS sensors.

DESELECTING the ESP switch, meaning the amber warning light is "ON" in the dash only turns "OFF" or deselects the steering wheel angle sensor, yaw rate sensor and engine cut off from the traction control. EDL is still active and will be up to 50 mph on Quattro cars and up to 20 or 25 mph on FWD cars.

This means that the car will be held back somewhat because EDL is applying ABS brakes to the wheel or wheels spinning to transfer torque to the opposite wheel who as better traction.

The only way to disable traction control completely is to pull the ABS/ESP fuses but then that opens up a whole new can of worms.

Two, the actual ESP or stability program is technically always active (even with the ESP light “ON”) and really only does its thing while under braking. I’m not going to bother explaining the system in more detail. I’m sure enough is written on this subject and you can search for it.
Source:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/257545-how-to-turn-traction-control-COMPLETELY-off?p=3251991&viewfull=1#post3251991

[viziers]

It you hold the ESP button for something like 10 to 15 seconds it completely turns it off and will not turn back on unless you turn the ignition off then back on.



Atleast on mine if you push the ECS button to turn it back on the light on the dash will flash just once and go back off and will not engage the ECS.





vizi

[FLYINGLEGGS]

The link I posted disagrees with the holding it down method. I don't know which is true. Is there any way to tell via vag com what exactly has been turned off when pushing the ESP, pull various fuses, etc..?

[jimrobbington]

It you hold the ESP button for something like 10 to 15 seconds it completely turns it off and will not turn back on unless you turn the ignition off then back on.



Atleast on mine if you push the ECS button to turn it back on the light on the dash will flash just once and go back off and will not engage the ECS.





vizi

Really, Jeff? I was under the impression that did not work? I will go out and try this immediately. Brb.


JR

[jimrobbington]

Ok, I held esp down for 15 seconds, and the light turns off on the dash. You push the button again and the light flashed once, but won't stay on. Since it's snowing, immediately tried to spin the wheels, but esp is definately controlling wheel spin. The dash light definately acted like something changed, but maybe it seemed like it locks esp on instead maybe?

JR

[viziers]

Ok, I held esp down for 15 seconds, and the light turns off on the dash. You push the button again and the light flashed once, but won't stay on. Since it's snowing, immediately tried to spin the wheels, but esp is definately controlling wheel spin. The dash light definately acted like something changed, but maybe it seemed like it locks esp on instead maybe?

JR


That is entirely possible... If there is a fuse you can try to pull it and see if it disables it?




vizi

[jimrobbington]

Can you pull a fuse for esp without affecting braking? It's not that big a deal to me. Normal esp off works enough for my snow fun.

JR

[drumnjuny]

Can you pull a fuse for esp without affecting braking? It's not that big a deal to me. Normal esp off works enough for my snow fun.

JR

x2. if it only works while braking then i'm straight haha, that's off enough for me [up]
definitely off enough for snow fun!!! haha

[georgio3gr]

At my B7 (1.8t 20vt), i only have to push the ESP button once to turn it completely off but you have tfsi engine and ecu...

[Jay-Bee]

Is there a difference for Auto/manual?

I've turned mine off (just push it once) numerous times and have had plenty of fun and never felt like my car was doing anything i wasn't making it do.

[soleam87]

Short answer Kevin, No. There's no way to turn the ESP completely off, yes it does have a 2 stage traction system.

I've noticed on my car:
Press button once - ESP light shows on dash
Hold button for 3 Sec - Still shows on dash but will not turn traction back on until you hold it for another 3 sec, it will just flash if you push it once.
Hold for 10+ Sec - Same thing that Jim said...

I know I've read something somewhere about a fuse being bypassed to completely turn off of esp on both stages. Martin told me he was working on this with you but don't know if anything happened. I'll see what else I can find on it, if not, good luck!

[FLYINGLEGGS]

I don't know why you wouldn't be able to turn the throttle cutoff part of it off via vagcom. It seems that it would be an ECU generated command.
I will pay some one to figure this out!!
I understand that you can bog any manual, but that is a different story.
I just want my throttle to do what my foot tells it to do!

[Ves]

So i 100% of the time drive with the ESP off (little orange light on) and today i just tried the holding it down for 10 seconds, and i got the same result as mentioned above (no light and whenever i press the ESP button it just flashes at me). The car feels much better, almost as if there is absolutely zero electronic aid in the suspension or traction, ever more so than when i would drive around with the esp off light on

[titanium3.2]

^ in your head

[jimrobbington]

Tried it again today in the snow. Hold the esp button for 10 seconds, and esp is locked off, but I can't tell if it behaves differently. Why is this such a mystery?

JR

[CorneliusRox]

my experience is, if I hold the button for just a second, the light on the dash comes on and STABILITY control is turned off.

Stability controls throttle
Traction controls wheel braking
ABS just pumps the brake system

I think the ESP button turns off the Stability but leaves on some traction and ABS, so you can probably find fuses for those to pull.

Honestly though, I had my car drifting on dry pavement last night doing figure eights and didnt have any issues. <** I was being dumb, someone bet me I couldnt...

[jimrobbington]

There's definately 3 different modes:

Push once: normal off
Hold for 10 sec: different off mode
Hold for 15 sec: different on mode

I just don't know what these modes consist of, why no one knows, and where to possibly find the specs.

JR

[MethuenS4]

When I just pressed the ESP once it would still cut throttle for me. But when I do the hold method it definitely does not cut throttle anymore. That's about the only difference I could tell.


**-
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.792801,-71.185066

[jimrobbington]

I just researched the shit out of this on google, and still have come up with no complete answer.

It seems that engineers have definately made the esp more turn-offable than we are led to believe, but no one was allowed to tell us because of safety concerns.

Many threads stated that you could definately turn it "more off", then someone else would come in and say, no you can't.

Here's the best I could learn.

Esp is a function of three different systems combined:
ABS: anti lock brakes
EDL: electronic differential lock
ASR: anti slip regulation

Everyone better know what ABS is.

ASR is basically traction control. Controls wheel spin.

EDL is electronic differential lock.

Seems like normal "esp off" only turns off ASR, but at speeds under 50mph, all other functions are working, and ESP will still kick in.

Holding the button down for certain periods of time will "maybe" disable one or more or all functions of ESP.

JR

[DRAKLORE]

I'm curios as well, it's not about how much snow fun but my 60ft times at the track lol

[CorneliusRox]

well I just went out and tried normal (it slowed me down), with it off by holding for 1 second (felt no cut in power at all), and then I held the button for like 45sec because I thought it would beep or something (felt like normal, slow me down ESP, but I couldnt turn it off after that)

[KraZ4Riding]

I recalled something about a brief tap on the button in the manual. Here is what the manual states: ASR as I understand it is the part that reduces engine power.

Deactivating ASR: Tap Briefly on the ESP Button...The ESP check light flashes. Tap the ESP button again to reactivate ASR. This is recommended for certain situations such as driving with chains or a ta forced pace around a track.

Deactivating ESP: Press the ESP button for more than 3 seconds...The ESP light illuminates constantly.

Going out in a bit in the snow will try to see if there is a difference between a brief tap and a 3 second hold.

[FLYINGLEGGS]

I live in Florida. No snow to test out these theories.
Any vag-com experts in here willing to chime in?

[a4dc89]

I wish that there were actually different modes. Unfortunately, I would guess there is no difference and it's a software glitch. With the ESP off for me, I can still get pretty wild on the snow.

Something I have noticed is that during a snow storm, I can get the traction control to work (feeling the abs) without having the "skid" light come on. There are clearly 2 different systems at work here. Since the traction control appears to operate separately from the esp in terms of the esp light going off when the traction control portion of the esp is working. I would think that this same logic can applied to the traction control meaning we cannot turn it off.

[titanium3.2]

I think there is a difference in the computer interference between the auto's and the manuals, I spun my car one day in the rain with the esp off. Or at least I pushed the button once so the light on the dash was on. I spun the car because I was trying to find an answer to this also. If the car were to interfere to prevent an accident even with the esp off then it would not have let me spin the car.

[FLYINGLEGGS]

Come on. Someone must be able to figure this out. Vag com skills need to be used to turn it off.

[Paulito]

I see you have apr, i would contact them as they are considerably more familiar with the ecu compared to most on here.

Also if youre bogging on a launch, launch at a higher rpm or see if two step is available.

[B7bomber]

i bog on launch like crazy even when esp is off and take of at 5k rpms... but not when its super cold out.. hmmm

[DRAKLORE]

Mike at vast performance has a "launch control" option that I received with his tuning... He said "Shane, do you go to the track at all?" (yes) "do you want me to include a launch setting?"
I said yes and that's the last of it. I was going to wait for the revised version of my software to ask, but maybe I'll ^see what he has done?!
Hopefully he's not to busy with their holiday sale to get back to me ;-)

[FLYINGLEGGS]

Excellent Shane. Is it a module, an ecu "flash" or part of a plug in play chip?
Have you used it?
What other info do you have man?

[DRAKLORE]

Oh hey lol, totally missed this sorry man.

Well here's what I know, not much. I actually never got a chance to use it, The two nights I spent launching my car after breaking in the clutch. I never used it or had even really thought much about it. I was focused on getting the fundamentals of launching down. By the second night I had wheel spin but the third run proved to much for my third gear. And that's the condition it's sat in since then :-(
I can contact [email protected] or you could email him yourself. I have yet to pull logs or do anything seeing how I've spent the last few months sporadically between work/training.

I am not sure 100% but mike would know how to freak with TCS of anyone...

[Stewy]

Any luck on these different ESP modes? I'm anxious to hear.

[Lensch09]

Pull out a wheel speed sensor....Game over for all fun killing electronics....:)

But, on a serious note, I have no idea what the different types of ESP are. Sounds like something I should figure out on a Saturday afternoon with a laptop
-Dan

[Stewy]

Pull out a wheel speed sensor....Game over for all fun killing electronics....:)

But, on a serious note, I have no idea what the different types of ESP are. Sounds like something I should figure out on a Saturday afternoon with a laptop
-Dan

Wouldn't pulling a wheel speed sensor throw a code? And the rip with a laptop sounds like a fun Saturday afternoon!

[Lensch09]

Code? Yes.

It would render ABS, TCS, and basically everything else that's electronic useless...Torsen based Quattro (what we have), being a mechanical device would still work flawlessly. As far as the locking diffs go, not sure what the hell would happen there. I would assume that you might run into two wheel drive (one wheel in the front, one in the back) if you tested my theory. Who knows, it's a stupid idea and I was just being a smartass :)
-Dan

[FLYINGLEGGS]

Yes, we need a vag com expert to do us some good here!
I will take any progress on the matter, but we really want the "throttle disabling" to be turned off or turn offable. The ESP's basic feature (pushing the button to make the light on the dash come on) supposedly only disengages the traction control with respect to the abs (which is good for snow, certain racing formats, etc)

So, someone please get that damn throttle control under OUR control.

[FLYINGLEGGS]

Bump bump

[Inked]

Bump bump

what was the purpose of this bump?

[Operator]

what was the purpose of this bump?

Getting the answer to his question from the OP.

[WalkerT]

It is a little easier for me to test this being fwd 6sp.

In normal ESP on mode (no light) if the tires even start to spin hard fuel cut and fast boost drop it will just about give you wip lash.....

On mine if I push the button quickly the esp flashes and goes out. I get a little tires spin but once they realy start to spin fuel cut and boost drop.

Hold it down for 3 sec. ESP light lite up. I can smoke the tires to a point (1-3 sec) and no fuel cuts but then ESP starts applying the brake and rpms fall and stops the spin. I was about to change tires and tried everything to do a large smoky burn out and the car keep pulling it back from letting the tires spin past 4k. With the ESP off the boost still goes to peak 24ish and once the tires beak loose the boost will fall and come back up then go back down to 15ish.

Normal for me is 25 and drop to 18. To get a proper launch I have to modulate the tire spin and boost to get peak boost and max performance. ESP has to be off.

[FLYINGLEGGS]

Thanks Operator and WalkerT.
I think it comes down to an ECU "program" or vagcom adjustment needing to be made.
It is possible to turn completely off on RS models and on some S models.
I read an article on the new RS5. One of the things that the writer/journalist/reviewer said was that it was cool that you could "turn the traction control partially or completely off".

[DRAKLORE]

25psi on apr stg2+... Sounds like a recipe for disaster

[swoardrider]

When I'm on the road race track I quickly hit the ESP button and it turns off all forms of traction control. I can easily get the car to oversteer, understeer (severely), 4-wheel slide, etc. No power restrictions at all on a wet or dry track. Only thing that remains constantly on is the ABS when braking beyond the threshold of traction.

[devvan]

When I'm on the road race track I quickly hit the ESP button and it turns off all forms of traction control. I can easily get the car to oversteer, understeer (severely), 4-wheel slide, etc. No power restrictions at all on a wet or dry track. Only thing that remains constantly on is the ABS when braking beyond the threshold of traction.

Yes, on my Euro-spec 2.0TSQ I have this ^.
When I press the ESP button the light comes on and it is OFF with one exception. Let´s say I´m out drifting in the snow, as long as I push the gas pedal in the ESP wont interfere, but if I am in the middle of a drift and let go of the gas pedal the ESP starts breaking the wheels in order to get the car to go straight... The light doesn´t go off so I can continue to drift even after the ESP interfering.
Not sure if I understood OP correctly but it seems our ECU´s programming differs, so it should be something one could adjust with VAG-COM.. Note: My ESP reacts no different when holding the button for a short while or 3, 5 , 10 seconds...

[FLYINGLEGGS]

there are different parameters on launching versus at speeds hit past first gear.
Swoardrider, try the same process and launch hard from a stand still. let us know what you come up with .

[swoardrider]

Only stage 2, and a tippy with gay fairy wing paddles for me, so no hard launching that can spin wheels [poop]
With a manual and stage 3 I can see you guys spinning all fours. So your saying that even with ESP off, your feeling a hold back of power?? Almost like ESP may also have a "launch control" type setting??
Or, could it possibly be the quattro center diff doing weird shit with that power?? Or is it all the fluoride they put in our water??

[Luccatavares]

Any news about this?

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[pezgoon]

You could pull the abs fuse and it should 100% disable it lol if it's really an issue

Also just to add to this I noticed when I e brake slid into my driveway the other day the abs kicked in on the front two wheels when I locked the rear, I surprised me, and bothered me that shutting off the traction doesn't 100% shut it off

I need a race button lol

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[Luccatavares]

You could pull the abs fuse and it should 100% disable it lol if it's really an issue

Also just to add to this I noticed when I e brake slid into my driveway the other day the abs kicked in on the front two wheels when I locked the rear, I surprised me, and bothered me that shutting off the traction doesn't 100% shut it off

I need a race button lol

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The race button is the answer. Lol

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[pezgoon]

The race button is the answer. Lol

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So I just read over it and you have two options, pull the fuse, or hold the button for 3 seconds. It still leaves a little bit on but will give you the most amount of control compared to just pressing the button


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[Luccatavares]

Yeah I will try! I just need as launch. Might work that way

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[Luccatavares]

So I just read over it and you have two options, pull the fuse, or hold the button for 3 seconds. It still leaves a little bit on but will give you the most amount of control compared to just pressing the button


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Yeah I will try that! I just need for launch. Maybe it will work

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[Rulty]

I tested this out when I first got the car. It seems to me that just hitting the button so the light is on turns everything off. When I long press it so the light is off and can not be turned on it flashes at me when I spin my tires, however it doesn't stop me, I feel like it does lessen output somehow though. Any thoughts on this?

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[yxri]

When I press my ESP button all my problems go away. Fun to drift in the snow. Wish I could turn it all the way off so I don't have to deal with pressing it everytime I want to drive...

[Snert]

I'm looking at picking up an 08 A4 Avant 6 speed. What is the latest for turning off the ESP/traction control?

[canadianA4B7]

Pull the fuse.

[oVeRdOsE]

At the end, you must have a crazy hard driving to see any difference between pressing the ESP once (with light on cluster) and pulling out the fuse.

We have ton of snow here, and with the ESP off (button press) I can do very nice slides at very high speed. Keeping the control or loosing it, is up to the driver, the car won't try to recover the trajectory.

08' 6 speeds quattro here

[FNcelAGAIN]

Has anyone tried holding ESP before the engine is started ormaybe something stupid like that could be something diff

[Theiceman]

My best friends parents were both killed by the antics talked about in this thread... Everyone Is a great driver and has an excuse or story, till it turns to crap.
All they were doing was walking down the sidewalk to get a newspaper.
Enough of my rant, just thought I'd mention it


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