Alright guys I am stupmed, need some assistance from the b7 experts

[cbaquol]

Alright, sorry this is going to be kinda long, I am going to try to remember as many details as I can to get the best information as possible. I will summarize at the bottom.

Lets start from the very beginning. I bought the car in July, 70k miles, XXX amount of miles before I bought the car, the entire turbocharger was replaced with another OEM k03. So right away I had the new cam follower and HPFP put in under the service bulletin. Also had the revision D diverter valve installed at the same time free of charge. Drove it fine (from what I can remember) without any complaints. The car had a KN panel filter in when I got it from the dealer, and I installed the 034 inlet hose a few days after I got the car, but thats all as far as after market goes.

Early August I take it to a shop to get chipped. I decided to go revo since the tuning place was no more than 15 minutes from my house. Took it there, got the software, thought it was all good. Later I find out that they had set my SPS settings completely wrong, (fuel 3, timing 6, boost 6) but I will get to that later. August was really hot and at this point I didnt have a boost gauge, so I thought to myself, cool this feels way faster than before, I really like it.

Few weeks later, I get a boost gauge put in, 1st gear hit maybe 7 psi then started to drop, and depending on how I hit the throttle, the rest of the gears would spike 21-22psi then drop slowly but steadily down to about 5 psi near redline. I am new to turbo cars, and had read that the little k03 runs out of breath around 5k and boost starts to fall off after that, so I didnt dwell too hard on it, especially because the car still felt really strong and fast all the way to redline. At the time, I felt the "bucking" but it wasnt bad and I didnt want to worry myself so decided to attempt to ignore it as best as possible and hope it would go away.

Right about 73k miles I did an oil change, and noticed I had 2 soft codes for misfires on cyl 1 and cyl 3. No steady check engine light, it must have flashed and I missed it when the misfire occurred. So I changed the coil packs, cleared the codes, and called it a day.

Next, its time for the 75k mile service. I checked all fluids, changed oil, oil filter, checked everything under the car, changed spark plugs to the 1 step colder NGK's because of the chip, changed cabin filter, all the normal maintenance stuff. At this point the "bucking" had gotten progressively worse and had started to make me worry.

Next I took out the KN and put in the APR intake. Also, I replaced the Rev "C" PCV with the BSH Stage 1. The issue is still there and getting really bad.

The "bucking" is really plaguing me at this point, so I go to another Revo dealer thinking, maybe its the software? So I go to another shop, and sure enough my software settings are jacked. Fuel 3, Timing 6, and Boost 6. Where the original tuning shop got those numbers I have absolutely no idea, so the second shop changed them to what Revo recommends as stage 1, Fuel 9 for 93 octane, Timing 3, and Boost 6. I get a little bit of hope at this point, but go to drive the car home and still spiking 21-22psi with a vicious buck followed by boost falling fairly quickly down to about 5psi. So I temporarily rule out the software at this point because it is still getting the same effects without the jacked settings. I also wanted to give the ecu a little time to adapt and possibly change some parameters and that it might take care of it on its own.

I was scheduled to take the car to the track November 5th for the high performance driving school, so the week before I went to RAI to get a final sweep to check everything out and prep for the track, as well as try to figure out what could be causing this problem. I had my cam follower replaced again, as well as my fuel filter, hoping that one of those two were the culprits and what I thought were fuel cuts would disappear. Unfortunately that wasnt the case. We scratched our heads and couldnt really come up with a good idea of what else it could be. Keep in mind, this whole time I have had ZERO codes pop up, other than the misfires way early on that did not reappear after the coil packs were changed. So the tech wanted to try one more thing before I left the shop in a last effort to tackle the problem, he unplugged the MAF and took it for a test drive, and wah-lah the issue is gone!!!! At this point I am pretty damn excited after months of chasing down this problem, we think we have it figured out; a bad MAF (my thinking was possibly due to the oil on the KN) I plug the original MAF back in and drive it for the following day, and the symptoms have returned. So that day we go ahead and order a new MAF, and left the old one unplugged. This is where it gets really weird. With no MAF plugged in, the car runs 1000x better than it ever has before. Vacuum sits right at 22-23 in/hg, 1st gear will hit 16psi and drop to 13-14psi around redline, 2,3,4,5, and 6 will spike 19psi and hold 17psi to just about redline. At this point I am so happy with how the car is driving (other than poor mpg) it really has never run as well as it has ever before, not even close. So the day before the track I pick up the new MAF, but am so busy with helping my friend get everything ready, I did not have time to put it in. The car has ran fantastic without it, and I am not getting any codes other than the p0100 which tells me there is no communication with the MAF, which I obviously already know, and the tech at RAI as well as Drakelore said running the car without the MAF should be no problem, so I did. So I take a bit of a chance and track the car without the MAF plugged in, I had an OBD scanner with me and was checking for new codes after every session, but nothing ever appeared. The car ran flawlessly the entire weekend on the track without the MAF.
So I finally get time to install the new MAF and son of a bitch the problem is back, just as bad as it was before. Getting low boost in 1st gear, and very high spikes in the rest of the gears with the horrible bucking above 19-20ish.

Throughout the tail end of this ordeal Drakelore and I have been PMing back and forth trying to find a solution, and we finally decided to get everyone elses opinions.

Summary:
I thought I was getting bad fuel cuts at higher boost. When I would get up to 19+ psi my car "bucks" really hard for a split second then gets right back into the power. This made me immediately think, oh it must be a fuel cut. Everything that I have changed on the car in the last 8k miles:
HPFP, cam follower twice, diverter valve, coil packs, sparkplugs, PCV, fuel filter, oil/oil filter three times, air filter, software settings, and finally the MAF. Turbocharger was replaced an unknown amount of miles before I bought it, but it was definitely replaced. I am probably forgetting something so I will edit it in if I remember it. Unplugging the MAF made the problem completely disappear, and made the car drive incredible. Took it to the track and ran it at 100% and it performed without a single hiccup. I install a new MAF and the problem is right back in full force. Never got any codes other than misfires before the coil packs were changed, and then they never returned. And only p0100 when the MAF was unplugged. No other codes at all what so ever. I have had the car smoke tested for leaks on three separate occasions and they have not reported anything back.

I dont have vag to log any of the fuel pressure readings, so if anyone in MD willing to help out does have vag I'll supply the beer, after the logging of course. Next thing on the list to replace is the N75, the 142bar check valve, and then an the APR upgraded HPFP. I want to avoid changing any more parts blindly trying to find out the problem which is why I am making this post. I wish I at least had a code to point me in the right direction, but unfortunately I dont.

I am open to any ideas that might help solve the problem so I appreciate any help I can get from you guys

[xULx]

PCV valve? probably not, but i did not see it on your replacement parts and I know my car bucked a few times then died later due to the PCV valve. Although I dont think it would explain the MAF issue or the fuel cuts if your car was already going strong through the first few gears.

[cbaquol]

PCV valve?

Damn i read that like 3 times and still forgot something lol. I replaced the pcv with the BSH pcv fix at the same time as the apr intake

[xULx]

I edited my post as well, but seeming as you repplaced that....you pretty much hit all the main wickets I am aware of. GL OP

[1.9TDI]

Have you considered logging your o2 sensors? Around that mileage they tend to get a little lazy. When you unplug the MAF, the car runs in open loop mode, effectively ignoring various sensors through out the car. Once the MAF is plugged in, it begins to read sensors and adjusts accordingly.

[P_Diako]

I had a similar problem with my 1.8t 20th AE GTi. Got GIAC chip, eurosport intake, ghl 2.5'' turbo back. My boost gauge would spike at 21 and then drop to 5psi. Took it to the shop they reflashed the ecu with a new map and the car was fine for a few then started to do the same along with bucking that feels like fuel cut. I ended up changing the n75 valve (wastegate frequency valve) and it solved the problem. From what I see for the 2.0t they have the stock one and a race one. For the 1.8t at the time they had a few versions (H,J,K) can't really remember. Try and see if that will solve the problem.

[cbaquol]

Have you considered logging your o2 sensors? Around that mileage they tend to get a little lazy. When you unplug the MAF, the car runs in closed loop mode, effectively ignoring various sensors through out the car. Once the MAF is plugged in, it begins to read sensors and adjusts accordingly.

^excellent start, if someone in my area has vag I will add that to the list of stuff to look at. So far it will be the o2 sensors, and fuel pressure actual vs requested. Thanks


I had a similar problem with my 1.8t 20th AE GTi. Got GIAC chip, eurosport intake, ghl 2.5'' turbo back. My boost gauge would spike at 21 and then drop to 5psi. Took it to the shop they reflashed the ecu with a new map and the car was fine for a few then started to do the same along with bucking that feels like fuel cut. I ended up changing the n75 valve (wastegate frequency valve) and it solved the problem. From what I see for the 2.0t they have the stock one and a race one. For the 1.8t at the time they had a few versions (H,J,K) can't really remember. Try and see if that will solve the problem.

Good to hear! Looks like I was headed in the right direction so far, look at the logs if I can get a hold of someone local with vag, and change the N75. I just didnt want to replace any more parts blindly but if you say it cured your car which was having the same symptoms, might have to bite the bullet and just do it.

[bman005]

Pretty sure that you need the pressure relief valve. You, like me have an early car and our pressure relief valves dump at a lower pressure. Check out this thread http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/451458-05.5-06-Fuel-Issues

[GarrettReid]

even the summary is too long [o_o]

[cbaquol]

Pretty sure that you need the pressure relief valve. You, like me have an early car and our pressure relief valves dump at a lower pressure. Check out this thread http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/451458-05.5-06-Fuel-Issues

Yep I read that thread a while back, which is why I added the 142bar valve to my list of items next on the list, but thanks for looking out!


even the summary is too long [o_o]


Sorry! I wanted to include everything possible, because I know if I didnt, the one thing I left out would be the important thing [headbang]

[DRAKLORE]

Right from what I've gathered, here's a good list of things to check.
N75- for 30$ or perhaps borrowing an MBC from RAI you can ^see how it reacts?
I don't use my forge N75 and would send it to you but I still need it plugged in.

Check your fuel trims, if this is a fueling issue, which it most likely is. This could be a very good place to start.

Like I said in pm, without logging pids, it's very difficult to diagnose from my standpoint here on the John... Lol

GL

[cbaquol]

it's very difficult to diagnose from my standpoint here on the John... Lol

GL

Lmao! Alright since the n75 is so inexpensive, looks like I'm gonna go that route next. I doubt the previous owner ever replaced it. And since I can't pull logs myself, if that doesn't fix it then ill leave the car with rai for a day and let them have at it.

[zhemel]

Are you still using the k&n filter?

[DrZEUS]

I had a similar problem with my 1.8t 20th AE GTi. Got GIAC chip, eurosport intake, ghl 2.5'' turbo back. My boost gauge would spike at 21 and then drop to 5psi. Took it to the shop they reflashed the ecu with a new map and the car was fine for a few then started to do the same along with bucking that feels like fuel cut. I ended up changing the n75 valve (wastegate frequency valve) and it solved the problem. From what I see for the 2.0t they have the stock one and a race one. For the 1.8t at the time they had a few versions (H,J,K) can't really remember. Try and see if that will solve the problem.

Same thing happened to me with my 1.8T Jetta with Upsolute tune....an ECS N75 "race valve" solved my problem.

[mr shickadance]

is your MAF on backwards?

[DRAKLORE]

It only can be bolted in one way..

[cbaquol]

It only can be bolted in one way..


Correct....And the new maf came already installed in a new housing and was mounted with the arrow pointing toward the turbo not toward the air filter

[mr shickadance]

It only can be bolted in one way..


yea but the canister itself can be spun around.....search, there have been people who have done this and had similar issues that OP is having

[cbaquol]

Alright time for an update.....

I spent a few hours at RAI today trying to figure out what is going on, unfortunately I we didnt come to a conclusion yet. In the time I was there this is what we did:
First they said my motor sounds a little more like a diesel then the average 2.0t fsi.
Smoke test - no leaks
Pressure test - no leaks
Test drove and pulled logs – HPFP fueling pressure was fine, although the LPFP dropped off a little but not enough to cause the symptoms I am getting. Actual vs requested boost was a little bit off but nothing crazy according to them. Although in higher rpms the boost dropped off further then the ECU was telling it to. They said the N75 was working as it should but at 99% duty cycle. Not sure what that means exactly, but they did an output test which was successful so they ruled out the N75. Also wanted to add that they suggested not going the MBC route and bypassing the n75, because the n75 is pulling boost down for some reason (unsure why just yet) but going with an MBC and forcing the boost in might cause something catastrophic, so for now I will put that idea aside.Timing was perfect. Again, no MIL, no soft codes at all.

We used a borascope (sp)to inspect the turbo impeller, which the said looked a little tight but it moved freely in the housing, and looked fine so they ruled that out until they could inspect the rear impeller. I am not burning any oil or coolant and there was no shaft play.

Other issues to note:
When doing to the pressure test, apparently the crankcase filled with pressure instantly which wasnt supposed to happen. We capped off the breather hose at the top end and still were getting the same result. I’m not even really sure where to start with that. Another note was that the check valve in the breather hose was already gone.

I forgot to mention in the OP that I am getting a noticeably loud "coffee maker" boiling noise which I thought was the check valve in the breather hose, but since that check valve isnt in there, I'm not sure where to go from there.

They didnt want to band aid the issue, so really scratched their heads trying to figure out what was going on but unfortunately with no success. The next step would be to tighten the waste gate bolt, which is still most likely patching an underlying issue. Possibly another check valve somewhere but there are quite a few so if anyone knows of another weak check valve that could cause these symptoms, please point me in the right direction. Then tear into the motor more and inspect the internals, which I’m really not looking forward to.

***And the most mind boggling part is that unplugging the MAF makes the car absolutely amazing, which makes no sense at all to anyone I tell that to. Just to repeat, without the maf plugged in I am spiking 19psi and holding 16 to redline. With the MAF plugged in, I spike 21-22psi then it drops to about 5psi rather quickly. Same results with two different MAF's.

So once again back to square one with a little more knowledge but no solution. I am really reaching out for help here so if anyone has any plausible suggestions please throw them out there. Thanks for the help, if I forgot to mention something I will add it in and make a note of it.

[Inked]

even the summary is too long [o_o]

Lol I got thru like the 2 paragraph before I called it quits haha

[bman005]

Maybe your valve cover is cracked on the inside? It'll make all sorts of weird issues depending on where it may be broken. Your pressure test filling the crankcase may be an indicator. Unplugging the MAF makes the engine management system run off of a substitute value for air/fuel metering which could explain why it runs seemingly normal when you unplug it. Just a thought

[mr shickadance]

Alright, sorry this is going to be kinda long, I am going to try to remember as many details as I can to get the best information as possible. I will summarize at the bottom.

Lets start from the very beginning. I bought the car in July, 70k miles, XXX amount of miles before I bought the car, the entire turbocharger was replaced with another OEM k03. So right away I had the new cam follower and HPFP put in under the service bulletin. Also had the revision D diverter valve installed at the same time free of charge. Drove it fine (from what I can remember) without any complaints. The car had a KN panel filter in when I got it from the dealer, and I installed the 034 inlet hose a few days after I got the car, but thats all as far as after market goes.

Early August I take it to a shop to get chipped. I decided to go revo since the tuning place was no more than 15 minutes from my house. Took it there, got the software, thought it was all good. Later I find out that they had set my SPS settings completely wrong, (fuel 3, timing 6, boost 6) but I will get to that later. August was really hot and at this point I didnt have a boost gauge, so I thought to myself, cool this feels way faster than before, I really like it.

Few weeks later, I get a boost gauge put in, 1st gear hit maybe 7 psi then started to drop, and depending on how I hit the throttle, the rest of the gears would spike 21-22psi then drop slowly but steadily down to about 5 psi near redline. I am new to turbo cars, and had read that the little k03 runs out of breath around 5k and boost starts to fall off after that, so I didnt dwell too hard on it, especially because the car still felt really strong and fast all the way to redline. At the time, I felt the "bucking" but it wasnt bad and I didnt want to worry myself so decided to attempt to ignore it as best as possible and hope it would go away.

Right about 73k miles I did an oil change, and noticed I had 2 soft codes for misfires on cyl 1 and cyl 3. No steady check engine light, it must have flashed and I missed it when the misfire occurred. So I changed the coil packs, cleared the codes, and called it a day.

Next, its time for the 75k mile service. I checked all fluids, changed oil, oil filter, checked everything under the car, changed spark plugs to the 1 step colder NGK's because of the chip, changed cabin filter, all the normal maintenance stuff. At this point the "bucking" had gotten progressively worse and had started to make me worry.

Next I took out the KN and put in the APR intake. Also, I replaced the Rev "C" PCV with the BSH Stage 1. The issue is still there and getting really bad.

The "bucking" is really plaguing me at this point, so I go to another Revo dealer thinking, maybe its the software? So I go to another shop, and sure enough my software settings are jacked. Fuel 3, Timing 6, and Boost 6. Where the original tuning shop got those numbers I have absolutely no idea, so the second shop changed them to what Revo recommends as stage 1, Fuel 9 for 93 octane, Timing 3, and Boost 6. I get a little bit of hope at this point, but go to drive the car home and still spiking 21-22psi with a vicious buck followed by boost falling fairly quickly down to about 5psi. So I temporarily rule out the software at this point because it is still getting the same effects without the jacked settings. I also wanted to give the ecu a little time to adapt and possibly change some parameters and that it might take care of it on its own.

I was scheduled to take the car to the track November 5th for the high performance driving school, so the week before I went to RAI to get a final sweep to check everything out and prep for the track, as well as try to figure out what could be causing this problem. I had my cam follower replaced again, as well as my fuel filter, hoping that one of those two were the culprits and what I thought were fuel cuts would disappear. Unfortunately that wasnt the case. We scratched our heads and couldnt really come up with a good idea of what else it could be. Keep in mind, this whole time I have had ZERO codes pop up, other than the misfires way early on that did not reappear after the coil packs were changed. So the tech wanted to try one more thing before I left the shop in a last effort to tackle the problem, he unplugged the MAF and took it for a test drive, and wah-lah the issue is gone!!!! At this point I am pretty damn excited after months of chasing down this problem, we think we have it figured out; a bad MAF (my thinking was possibly due to the oil on the KN) I plug the original MAF back in and drive it for the following day, and the symptoms have returned. So that day we go ahead and order a new MAF, and left the old one unplugged. This is where it gets really weird. With no MAF plugged in, the car runs 1000x better than it ever has before. Vacuum sits right at 22-23 in/hg, 1st gear will hit 16psi and drop to 13-14psi around redline, 2,3,4,5, and 6 will spike 19psi and hold 17psi to just about redline. At this point I am so happy with how the car is driving (other than poor mpg) it really has never run as well as it has ever before, not even close. So the day before the track I pick up the new MAF, but am so busy with helping my friend get everything ready, I did not have time to put it in. The car has ran fantastic without it, and I am not getting any codes other than the p0100 which tells me there is no communication with the MAF, which I obviously already know, and the tech at RAI as well as Drakelore said running the car without the MAF should be no problem, so I did. So I take a bit of a chance and track the car without the MAF plugged in, I had an OBD scanner with me and was checking for new codes after every session, but nothing ever appeared. The car ran flawlessly the entire weekend on the track without the MAF.
So I finally get time to install the new MAF and son of a bitch the problem is back, just as bad as it was before. Getting low boost in 1st gear, and very high spikes in the rest of the gears with the horrible bucking above 19-20ish.

Throughout the tail end of this ordeal Drakelore and I have been PMing back and forth trying to find a solution, and we finally decided to get everyone elses opinions.

Summary:
I thought I was getting bad fuel cuts at higher boost. When I would get up to 19+ psi my car "bucks" really hard for a split second then gets right back into the power. This made me immediately think, oh it must be a fuel cut. Everything that I have changed on the car in the last 8k miles:
HPFP, cam follower twice, diverter valve, coil packs, sparkplugs, PCV, fuel filter, oil/oil filter three times, air filter, software settings, and finally the MAF. Turbocharger was replaced an unknown amount of miles before I bought it, but it was definitely replaced. I am probably forgetting something so I will edit it in if I remember it. Unplugging the MAF made the problem completely disappear, and made the car drive incredible. Took it to the track and ran it at 100% and it performed without a single hiccup. I install a new MAF and the problem is right back in full force. Never got any codes other than misfires before the coil packs were changed, and then they never returned. And only p0100 when the MAF was unplugged. No other codes at all what so ever. I have had the car smoke tested for leaks on three separate occasions and they have not reported anything back.

I dont have vag to log any of the fuel pressure readings, so if anyone in MD willing to help out does have vag I'll supply the beer, after the logging of course. Next thing on the list to replace is the N75, the 142bar check valve, and then an the APR upgraded HPFP. I want to avoid changing any more parts blindly trying to find out the problem which is why I am making this post. I wish I at least had a code to point me in the right direction, but unfortunately I dont.

I am open to any ideas that might help solve the problem so I appreciate any help I can get from you guys


not trying to beat a dead horse, but can you try spinning the MAF housing 180 degrees and see where that gets you?

[cbaquol]

not trying to beat a dead horse, but can you try spinning the MAF housing 180 degrees and see where that gets you?

Yeah I definitely can, its easy enough to do and definitely worth a shot. The way it is in now is the arrow on the housing is facing toward to turbo. RAI had it all apart today and I would imagine they would have noticed if the housing or the sensor itself was backwards, but it is for sure worth a shot. I'll let you know the results.

As for the cracked valve cover, I will note that if we end up digging into the motor, otherwise I am going to keep my fingers crossed for a less invasive solution. But thank you for the idea and if I end up getting that far I will definitely check it.

I am really looking forward to figuring this one out, keep the ideas coming. Thanks

[mr shickadance]

also you may want to investigate whether or not all the switching of the MAF and diferent options you have been doing have just been messing with the ECU's 'brain' so to speak.....basically what i am driving at (pun intended) is that the ECU begins to learn and adapt to different things as not all cars are given 1) the same environment, 2) mechanical soundness, 3) etc.


essentially lets say that you have a small boost leak (dont worry the pressure/smoke test proved you didn't im just using it as an example) so you have a small boost leak, over time, your ECU will start to adapt to this small boost leak if you don't find it soon enough (small boost leaks are usually missed for a long time so its a good example).....it will begin to compensate for the lost pressure by adjusting the fuel ratio and some other important factors im sure.

so maybe this goes on for a winter and spring time finally comes around and it gets warm enough to work on your car and you think "oh i'll do a boost leak test just cause they are cheap and im bored" and you find the small leak and you plug that mother-effer right back up. well, all of a sudden you now have 'fixed' a situation, however the ECU is still under the assumption that there is a small boost leak, so it is still adjusting the air/fuel ratio for this small leak even tho its not going on.

depending on how big of the leak was, your car may be acting all types of funny before the ECU starts to adapt.


you can skirt this issue by unplugging your battery for about an hour and then plug it back in which will basically reset all of your ECU calibrations (you won't lose your tune, and you can verify that with the boys at RAI if you dont believe me) but it will be forced to re-learn and adapt essentially with a clean slate of data to go off of



i'm not saying this is the solution to your problems, but you could be changing so many things without giving your ECU enough time to properly adjust for it is all im saying

[cbaquol]

Excellent post, and I agree with everything you said. I am aware the ecu will adapt to accommodate for different situations such as the boost leak you used as an example. I actually was told to undo the battery connections to reset the values like you suggested, but have yet to do so. You hit it on the head, I didnt want to do it in fear of losing my tune. I unfortunately didnt know about RAI when I got the car, and went with Revo from a horrible place by my house rather than Uni. I am definitely regretting that now for more than a few reasons. Anyway, I have read mixed things about Revo reverting to stock mode when unplugging the battery (I know the tune doesnt get erased, but has to be reset) and I vowed never to go back to the Revo shop ever again, yes they are that bad. There is another shop a little further from me who does Revo and are actually cool guys, but its a drive. I definitely agree its another simple solution that would be worth trying. Keep the ideas coming man I appreciate all the ideas greatly!

One question for you, what would be an appropriate time for the ecu to adjust to the changes I have made? Does it learn fairly quickly or am I looking at a few hundred miles?

[mr shickadance]

its dependant on how much you drive it, i think a better way to measure it would be how many tanks of gas before the ECU adapts.....i would say about 1-1.5 tanks of gas.....


if you have SPS don't you just plug that into your OBD port and re-flash your car? (i am not familiar with REVO, i should i said that when you unplug your battery you dont lose your UNI - tune bc thats all im familiar with)

[cbaquol]

its dependant on how much you drive it, i think a better way to measure it would be how many tanks of gas before the ECU adapts.....i would say about 1-1.5 tanks of gas.....


if you have SPS don't you just plug that into your OBD port and re-flash your car? (i am not familiar with REVO, i should i said that when you unplug your battery you dont lose your UNI - tune bc thats all im familiar with)

Correct, you can plug in the SPS+ to adjust boost timing and fuel (maybe more parameters not sure) if you have one, but I don't. I will eventually switch to uni just for the convenience factor of rai, so I dont want to invest in an SPS+ since they are like $300+ I believe. I will do the MAF flip like you suggested, see how it reacts, if it still acts up then Ill pull the neg battery lead for an hour or so and then ride to the further shop in stock mode and see how it goes, then switch back to the settings I currently have. (probably going to do the batery thing anyway)

Also, I drove about 8 tanks with the cam follower and fuel filter, and maybe 3 tanks with the new MAF. Should have been plenty of time right? If anything the issue seemed to get worse.

[bman005]

If you have Vag-com and want to reset the ecm go to adaptation and run channel 0. It erases the learned values.

[mr shickadance]

yea i'd say 3 tanks is more then enough unless your getting shitty mileage! haha i wish i could have the B7's efficiency .....v8's like to drink gas

[cbaquol]

If you have Vag-com and want to reset the ecm go to adaptation and run channel 0. It erases the learned values.

So I can do that to erase all learned values and avoid having to reset my tune? That would be great. And although I dont have vag, it will be a much simpler process.


yea i'd say 3 tanks is more then enough unless your getting shitty mileage! haha i wish i could have the B7's efficiency .....v8's like to drink gas

Haha my buddy has an s5 and often complains about his mpg, especially when I call him and say, "hey my display says 555 miles to empty, how about yours ?? lol" That was after a long slow highway trip but I took a picture of it and have it somewhere on my phone. Then he revs his awe exhaust and wins.

[bman005]

I can't see why it would erase a tune

[cbaquol]

[couple ideas to throw out there.... Is it still possible the n75 is bad although it passed the output test? Electronically or mechanically? It was working at 99% and was cutting boost further than the ecu requested in the higher rpm range which seems a little odd but could be pulling back due to something else that is failing so it may be overcompensating for an unknown reason.


Another thought is that somehow something is wrong with my tune. Could I go to another tuning company and try the trial software, and see if the problem is still there? If I were to do that would my revo disappear and go back to the original audi stock tune after the trial software is up or would it just revert back to the revo tune it has now?

Sorry for so many questions I appreciate all the help i've got so far keep the ideas flowing

[DRAKLORE]

Alright, I'm pretty sure RAI did a normal pid test of the n75 just monitoring its electronic values to ^see if they were either on or functioning. While that is a very quick way to test components and usually 90% good for determining if it's good. It's not always the case. And an actuall physical test is prob a better bet.

Also revo will reset to answer your question, tho I'm not sure if going in with vag com will or not!?

Like shick was saying the ecu has set calibrations and air metering it substitutes, tho he is also correct that the ecu will adapt within parameters, and you could notice a huge difference when unplugging the mad because of this. Realize this, each sensor or switch is located through vag with a PID (parameter identification data) which tells what voltage or percentage it is at.
Each sensor and switch has a set limit to how big it small those limits can get, and a lot of complicated ecu calculating takes place to determine wether to set a soft or hard fault blah blah blah Bassically I'm driving at the fact that YOU DON'T HAVE AN ENGINE CODE or DTC which is telling me all of your sensors and switches are indicating proper function of components, and that you are most likely within parameters for each one!!!!

That being said, if you are within your PID parameters and are still experiencing a anomaly. That usually indicates a hardware fault....***** underline bold lol

Also, there are set circumstances that the ecu is looking for to adapt to your style and the component condition.
This is the "drive cycle", drive 40-50mph for 15mins... Idle for 10mins.... 30 mins of driving 20-30mph ect ect ect
That's mainly adjusting your fuel trims and throttle body response. But keep in mind that it's what your catalyst replies on, and it doesn't necessarily need to ^see each event to be considered done, as sometimes the drive cycle calls for some ridiculous conditions like reversing for 500ft or something lol Jk

[cbaquol]

Alright, I'm pretty sure RAI did a normal pid test of the n75 just monitoring its electronic values to ^see if they were either on or functioning. While that is a very quick way to test components and usually 90% good for determining if it's good. It's not always the case. And an actuall physical test is prob a better bet.

Also revo will reset to answer your question, tho I'm not sure if going in with vag com will or not!?

Like shick was saying the ecu has set calibrations and air metering it substitutes, tho he is also correct that the ecu will adapt within parameters, and you could notice a huge difference when unplugging the mad because of this. Realize this, each sensor or switch is located through vag with a PID (parameter identification data) which tells what voltage or percentage it is at.
Each sensor and switch has a set limit to how big it small those limits can get, and a lot of complicated ecu calculating takes place to determine wether to set a soft or hard fault blah blah blah Bassically I'm driving at the fact that YOU DON'T HAVE AN ENGINE CODE or DTC which is telling me all of your sensors and switches are indicating proper function of components, and that you are most likely within parameters for each one!!!!

That being said, if you are within your PID parameters and are still experiencing a anomaly. That usually indicates a hardware fault....***** underline bold lol

Also, there are set circumstances that the ecu is looking for to adapt to your style and the component condition.
This is the "drive cycle", drive 40-50mph for 15mins... Idle for 10mins.... 30 mins of driving 20-30mph ect ect ect
That's mainly adjusting your fuel trims and throttle body response. But keep in mind that it's what your catalyst replies on, and it doesn't necessarily need to ^see each event to be considered done, as sometimes the drive cycle calls for some ridiculous conditions like reversing for 500ft or something lol Jk

Unfortunately, they are leaning towards a hardware fault also it seems like, judging on everything they have told me. Their initial thought during the test drive was the turbo taking a shit. But they pulled out the borascope and it was fine. Which hopefully it should be because it was at some point replaced. Also, I called the Revo North America office today, and he basically told me that there is no chance of getting a bad tune, because they use the same file for everyone, then let the actual shop adjust it accordingly via the SPS. He could have been saying that to make me feel better, but I am not really sure. He also told me that my original timing setting of 6 was fine ???? anyway.....

I understand that the ecu does an infinite amount of calculations to keep certain parameters in check, and that the maf being unplugged could make a huge difference on how the car reacts and performs according to what your asking it to do. The hardware fault thing is making me nervous because my pockets aren't as deep as I would like them to be, and having a shop rip into my motor is going to be expensive. So I cant help but think to myself, if in fact it is a hardware issue, how is it that unplugging the maf takes the problem away? Hypothetically the same broken mechanical piece is still there, and working to the best of its ability, yet the results are so different? I get the point you guys are making that the ecu can just adapt and change things around within its limits to make the problem seemingly disappear, but how does it know to do that only without a maf? Shouldn't the same broken piece of hardware cause the same problems regardless? The boost is lower without the maf for sure, but would a couple of pounds be the difference maker? Just thinking out loud, you guys know more than I do, but just entertain the idea in your own brains if you dont mind [hail]

A couple other notes I'd like to toss out there:
The pressure test was done at 20psi, and still nothing blew open or made any noise, and no smoke came out from the previous test. When I drove the car away, all the smoke poured out the exhaust in about 10 seconds then went away completely.

This may be a key part I failed to mention earlier, if instead of mashing the pedal to the floor and forcing every ounce out of it, resulting in the cuts/bucking. With maf plugged in, if I hold the throttle at say 80%, it will hold boost at about 20psi for as long as I ask it to without issue. Maybe because I can watch the gauge and regulate it via the throttle pedal to keep the boost where I want it, not to high and not too low? It will eventually drop off, but at a much slower speed and not nearly as drastically as if it would at WOT. I haven't had the space to take it too high up in the rpms but it seems more stable at that position of the pedal. I read the 05.5 fuel issue thread, which made me think of the rs4 check valve for fueling, but my logs at the shop showed nothing wrong with the hpfp fuel values. I dont have an upgraded fuel pump and I am not stage 2/2+. So maybe it could be a throttle calibration issue that would get fixed with erasing the ram in the ecu? Either way, I am going to do that next, either via vag or battery disconnection, and go get my settings reset at the revo place and see how it feels. From there I might just do the ecs race n75, just to be 100% certain that it is not the problem and somehow masking it. Then waste gate adjustment most likely. And at that point if it still is giving me issues, Ill save up enough to let ray dig into the motor and see what the hell might be broken on the inside.

Thanks again for your help guys if I left anything out of importance please let me know, your help is invaluable!

[bman005]

Unfortunately, they are leaning towards a hardware fault also it seems like, judging on everything they have told me. Their initial thought during the test drive was the turbo taking a shit. But they pulled out the borascope and it was fine. Which hopefully it should be because it was at some point replaced. Also, I called the Revo North America office today, and he basically told me that there is no chance of getting a bad tune, because they use the same file for everyone, then let the actual shop adjust it accordingly via the SPS. He could have been saying that to make me feel better, but I am not really sure. He also told me that my original timing setting of 6 was fine ???? anyway.....

I understand that the ecu does an infinite amount of calculations to keep certain parameters in check, and that the maf being unplugged could make a huge difference on how the car reacts and performs according to what your asking it to do. The hardware fault thing is making me nervous because my pockets aren't as deep as I would like them to be, and having a shop rip into my motor is going to be expensive. So I cant help but think to myself, if in fact it is a hardware issue, how is it that unplugging the maf takes the problem away? Hypothetically the same broken mechanical piece is still there, and working to the best of its ability, yet the results are so different? I get the point you guys are making that the ecu can just adapt and change things around within its limits to make the problem seemingly disappear, but how does it know to do that only without a maf? Shouldn't the same broken piece of hardware cause the same problems regardless? The boost is lower without the maf for sure, but would a couple of pounds be the difference maker? Just thinking out loud, you guys know more than I do, but just entertain the idea in your own brains if you dont mind [hail]

A couple other notes I'd like to toss out there:
The pressure test was done at 20psi, and still nothing blew open or made any noise, and no smoke came out from the previous test. When I drove the car away, all the smoke poured out the exhaust in about 10 seconds then went away completely.

This may be a key part I failed to mention earlier, if instead of mashing the pedal to the floor and forcing every ounce out of it, resulting in the cuts/bucking. With maf plugged in, if I hold the throttle at say 80%, it will hold boost at about 20psi for as long as I ask it to without issue. Maybe because I can watch the gauge and regulate it via the throttle pedal to keep the boost where I want it, not to high and not too low? It will eventually drop off, but at a much slower speed and not nearly as drastically as if it would at WOT. I haven't had the space to take it too high up in the rpms but it seems more stable at that position of the pedal. I read the 05.5 fuel issue thread, which made me think of the rs4 check valve for fueling, but my logs at the shop showed nothing wrong with the hpfp fuel values. I dont have an upgraded fuel pump and I am not stage 2/2+. So maybe it could be a throttle calibration issue that would get fixed with erasing the ram in the ecu? Either way, I am going to do that next, either via vag or battery disconnection, and go get my settings reset at the revo place and see how it feels. From there I might just do the ecs race n75, just to be 100% certain that it is not the problem and somehow masking it. Then waste gate adjustment most likely. And at that point if it still is giving me issues, Ill save up enough to let ray dig into the motor and see what the hell might be broken on the inside.

Thanks again for your help guys if I left anything out of importance please let me know, your help is invaluable!

Again, when you unplug the MAF you are entering a fault in the system for it. When there is a MAF failure the engine management system enters a substitute airflow value off of which mixture correction is made. So basically you have an air/fuel issue and unplugging your MAF substitutes a default value and the car runs ok because of that default value. And yet again based off of what you've already had tested and the results of your pressure test to the crankcase you need to replace your valve cover. It has multiple pcv channels that run throught it and if any of them are cracked it will play hell with the engine management system. Your wastegate isn't a bad idea either

[cbaquol]

Alright cool, I appreciate your input. Looks like I'll bump that to the top of the list. Seems like a valve cover isn't as pricey as I thought it would be.

http://GENUINEAUDIPARTS.COM/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getJointLocator&siteid=214407&Sectionids=10,0&groupid=10014&subgroupid=62057&componentid=&make=2&model=A4%20Sedan&year=2006&graphicID=F257055&callout=3&catalogid=1&displayCatalogid=0

Another part that pops into mind is the rear pcv. I haven't replaced that yet yet, could that be part of my problems? I really can't stress how much I appreciate your help with this its really driving me crazy.

[bman005]

Wouldn't be a bad idea. Its only 2 extra bolts after you have the valve cover off

[cbaquol]

So I did a little more searching and found a thread with very similar symptoms and audi told him it was an intake flap motor. The thread wasn't updated so I don't know if that fixed the problem. What do you guys think? The thread can be found here its fairly short

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/340121-Revo-tune-users-input-needed.

[cbaquol]

If you have Vag-com and want to reset the ecm go to adaptation and run channel 0. It erases the learned values.

Can you elaborate on this a little? It sounds pretty self explanatory, but I am not too familiar with vagcom. The guys at the shop weren't really sure what you were talking about when they had it plugged in, and said the values in adaptation were already at 0. So they just put a "new" 0 in there and hit save. They weren't really sure what exactly you ment so we aren't sure if we did it right. Can you maybe clarify a little if possible?

To be honest the car wouldn't give me the bucking the first like 5 WOT runs on the way home, and I got pretty excited, but then it started again. Does that tell us anything? Thanks man

Another note, since Uni doesnt offer trial software, I am going to talk to an APR shop tomorrow and get the trial software flashed on my car and see how it does, just to rule out the tune. I have come across an unsettling amount of people having issues with revo in my recent searches.

Also other things to rule out: Intake flap sensor, and o2 sensors

[DRAKLORE]

Iirc the flap failure causes a code?!
Also dude, I thought you said your stg2+ or had a hpfp?!
I mean does your car go into limp mode... The fuel cuts do this- "full boost requested, then no more boost.. Will not build positive psi. And car is in limp for a couple minutes" does yours do this?
The VC and rear PCV are easy to remove and inspect. The check valve is the only component in the rear PCv and you said RAI confined it to be fine.

[cbaquol]

Iirc the flap failure causes a code?!
Also dude, I thought you said your stg2+ or had a hpfp?!
I mean does your car go into limp mode... The fuel cuts do this- "full boost requested, then no more boost.. Will not build positive psi. And car is in limp for a couple minutes" does yours do this?
The VC and rear PCV are easy to remove and inspect. The check valve is the only component in the rear PCv and you said RAI confined it to be fine.

Sorry for any miscommunication, I only have stage 1. And I am not hitting limp mode at all, I can hit 21 pounds on back to back runs. The rear pcv and valve cover seem to be my next steps, assuming my tune is not the problem. Rai didn't inspect the rear pcv as far as I know, other than it not leaking anything into the atmosphere or causing any electronic malfunctions. The check valve might be the culprit because I am still getting the loud bubbling coffee maker noise which if i have read correctly, is caused by a failed check valve somewhere. Sorry for any typos or errors im on my phone right now.

I asked them about the intake flap today and he said he checked it during the data logging. Also he reset my throttle body calibration.

[bman005]

Can you elaborate on this a little? It sounds pretty self explanatory, but I am not too familiar with vagcom. The guys at the shop weren't really sure what you were talking about when they had it plugged in, and said the values in adaptation were already at 0. So they just put a "new" 0 in there and hit save. They weren't really sure what exactly you ment so we aren't sure if we did it right. Can you maybe clarify a little if possible?

To be honest the car wouldn't give me the bucking the first like 5 WOT runs on the way home, and I got pretty excited, but then it started again. Does that tell us anything? Thanks man

Another note, since Uni doesnt offer trial software, I am going to talk to an APR shop tomorrow and get the trial software flashed on my car and see how it does, just to rule out the tune. I have come across an unsettling amount of people having issues with revo in my recent searches.

Also other things to rule out: Intake flap sensor, and o2 sensors

They did it right. When you save Channel 0 and click yes when it asks if you're sure it erases the learned adaptions for the ecm.


If you determine that the flap motor is bad check with your Audi dealer, They just extended warranty coverage on them and PCV to 10/120,000

[cbaquol]

If you determine that the flap motor is bad check with your Audi dealer, They just extended warranty coverage on them and PCV to 10/120,000

Nice! Thanks for that, could end up saving a some money with that tip, I appreciate it. They said the intake flap was good because it would have shown up when they had it hooked up to vagcom. Could still be a possibility though I suppose. Does the warranty cover the rear pcv or just the front? And I assume you need a MIL on, which I dont have correct?

[bman005]

Nice! Thanks for that, could end up saving a some money with that tip, I appreciate it. They said the intake flap was good because it would have shown up when they had it hooked up to vagcom. Could still be a possibility though I suppose. Does the warranty cover the rear pcv or just the front? And I assume you need a MIL on, which I dont have correct?

Just the front. Depends on the dealer whether you'll need a mil light.

[cbaquol]

Just the front. Depends on the dealer whether you'll need a mil light.

I talked to my audi dealership this morning and he said he can't replace anything without a mil on. He said he could run some diagnostics for $100 and if the intake flap motor is failing they will do everything for free. But I can't imagine they would see anything that rai didn't see so I am not sure if it's worth trying.

By the way, they had no idea about the extention until they looked it up for me.

Also another update, I talked to the APR guys today and asked about flashing the trial software to see if is my tune giving me the problem, and he told me that once the trial is up the ecu will revert to a stock program and my revo would be gone for good. I'm not sure if I should go that route yet since I'm not 100% sure it's the tune. Another little interesting fact he said he wasn't even sure if the apr trial would take because of some conflict between revo and apr since they have very similar coding, which doesn't make a ton of sense to me but there might be more to it.

[cbaquol]

Alright so thanks to Nison_Li I have some logs for you guys to look at. I don't really know what I am looking at to be honest, but the actual and requested boost levels are way off at idle and low rpms, and dont even get close to matching up until I really get into boost, and even then they arent exact. Requested is like 290 and actual is 1000??? That doesnt seem right at all. And its pulling like 25 degrees of timing, then going to -1.5. Doesnt make a ton of sense to me, but hopefully someone can take a peek. I wish we would have got fueling and AFR's too but I didnt want to take up too much time. I am going to get a vag cord myself to try to figure this out, plus its cool to see all these values live. Let me know what you guys think please. Thanks

There was a good amount of traffic so we couldnt get into higher RPM's. Ill get some more logs with more information later but maybe someone can tell me something about the timing and boost.


http://www.mediafire.com/?j1l0u3do6mwqov8

http://www.mediafire.com/?s8a5rxci5fgp8e7

http://www.mediafire.com/?sp7xa2yguh2yv33

[mr shickadance]

sorry but im not downloading anything, take a screen shot and save as a jpeg and just post the picture

[cbaquol]

Well I dont think youll be able to see the whole picture without the entire log, but here are a few screenshots for anyone who doenst want to download the whole thing. I copied and edited the titles into certain areas in the logs of interest, so hopefully its all correct.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1609c2a5b015e3eddabc20ec8f45bd9fa23599ce71a1853d65 27842461a96b3b5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e0831b0ce1a2ed0cd863711c058694294a3c1d57a0d275ea8c 18253ca97acdf85g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/dac7542cb7ddc5fe83a0e6bd480df1bc8130f301d53af8193f 9185924cc88a965g.jpg

[cbaquol]

Edit: This explains the difference in boost pressure. So I think I need to simply get more variables logged and dig deeper to see what is going on. [headbang]


Boost Pressure: MB 115
-For boost, you should note the actual pressure with the engine off. This would be the atmospheric pressure (shown
circled in red below). As a check, the engine speed arrowed in red below should read “0”. If you are near sea level, then
you can use 1000mbar as an approximate atmospheric pressure.
-Boost Pressure (actual) is the pressure actually seen by the MAP sensor. You should never see a value below
atmospheric pressure since the MAP sensor is located upstream of the throttle body on the 2.0T engine.
-Boost Pressure (specified) is what the engine requests and you will see vacuum pressure for specified boost.
-Sometimes, it is useful to log both values.
-Once you get the boost data in PSI, simply use the following equation to calculate boost
(logged boost – atmospheric pressure) * .0145

[cbaquol]

yayy I got vagcom today and did some logging myself. If anyone has any suspicions please let me know and I can pull a log for it and post it for everyone to check out. Here is what I have done so far
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/902763c3def66f279d2a537728465a2397ee5c3aaef355929f 30a63257f19f745g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/6660c10e12cb039beb9d502f7ff6dd3d006dfcb370c289799c f3a53770327b5f5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/82fe2cbd7d321592bdf2c0e7fe49deaac07b437b9a91ab90f2 97fd6050787c085g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8d735eb95689c7bb625daf38ff79e0b1e512bb1e7c63d7eb03 d267c93f19febd5g.jpg

[cbaquol]

For the sake of keeping this thread updated as well, I ordered a RS4 Fuel Rail Pressure Valve today, and it should be in the mailbox tomorrow, maybe saturday. Will post results after I get it installed early next week.

More logs for now, if anyone spots anything out of the ordinary please point it out. Thanks.

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/c1ef38b9ba17b4e87fbb02cf390f1858d1724ffab67b443d6c a901d7b311d9405g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/65618f8cb6bdeead489b71bdda0554163e207529d44e523de6 bc950d18a943945g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/bc1e7c7551ce936a759efe23d4951a3ca4afbdd7841ab06356 f5558231534cad5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/76d861bdcfb64e22f877499c33ca9dc4aa0710db16501db046 b44c89dd8f1bdc5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/e572263523b6f2279ad0873cba96f23a08f97bb441f42be28e c6fb649f0f15585g.jpg

[cbaquol]

Alright, time for another update. I pulled my old fuel pressure relief valve today (06D130757C) and replaced it with the RS4 valve (079130757) Unfortunately my surging at high boost is still there. Although I think this valve definitely did something, it did not fix my problem. It does seem a little stronger at WOT and seems to hold boost a little better, but didnt fix the problem I am after. Not sure where to go from here unfortunately, if anyone has any suggestions at all PLEASE let me know. I can log anything and post graphs or send excel files. This is seriously driving me insane I am about to just pull back a few pounds of boost and call it quits on this crap. [headbang][headbang][evilmad]

Logs after rs4 valve installed, not the best logs due to traffic but I did what I could. I can get more logs if someone can offer help and needs to see them.

NOTE: 4th gear runs did NOT give me my surge problem, but 5th gear runs did, although both logs of boost/fuel look the same. It seems my problem is inconsistant, but definitely there.

4th gear WOT

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/b1d1366c7d4bc07f25d7ad204837d1ad060184ac178cbd2449 3d39316c45931e5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/0bcf05f45c962f8aca9957ae4cc68ef31e0f6d0cd598685c05 fb886699afb4885g.jpg

5th gear WOT
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/6953cdc5edd56fba21e9599e37563910cc64721412f09aea40 ea5dabe23a528b5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/722fbf462bc4636a943a3eda06344e95d9b8abfa6397f53936 7afa4294fd99a05g.jpg

[bman005]

I've been looking at the logs and I'm concerned with the boost requests. Our boost request should never drop much below 1000 mbar IIRC since that is roughly atmospheric pressure, and another thing I'm thinking is that the difference between specificied boost and actual boost should be no more than 65 mbar. I'm looking at your boost request in 5th gear and I see it drops down below 500 which would be vacuum as opposed to boost. That doesn't seem right. I'm hoping that Shane or one of the other guys who seem to be pretty knowledgeable in our turbo systems can chime in here...

[cbaquol]

Our boost request should never drop much below 1000 mbar IIRC since that is roughly atmospheric pressure I know that the actual isnt supposed to go below 1000bar or close depending on elevation, but the requested goes into vaccuum when I let off the throttle completely. Correct me if I am wrong but I think that is right??

I was confused also but I read this which cleared it up I think, let me know what you think, thanks for your help!!


Boost Pressure: MB 115
-For boost, you should note the actual pressure with the engine off. This would be the atmospheric pressure (shown
circled in red below). As a check, the engine speed arrowed in red below should read “0”. If you are near sea level, then
you can use 1000mbar as an approximate atmospheric pressure.
-Boost Pressure (actual) is the pressure actually seen by the MAP sensor. You should never see a value below
atmospheric pressure since the MAP sensor is located upstream of the throttle body on the 2.0T engine.
-Boost Pressure (specified) is what the engine requests and you will see vacuum pressure for specified boost.
-Sometimes, it is useful to log both values.
-Once you get the boost data in PSI, simply use the following equation to calculate boost
(logged boost – atmospheric pressure) * .0145

I think it would probably be less confusing if I did the equation above and made all values in PSI rather than mbar and corrected for the atmospheric pressure in actual.

[GarrettReid]

ughh. too much technical jargon I don't understand anymore.

[bman005]

Clear something up for me...What is the other number on the graph? I was thinking the vertical is mbar of boost pressure and the other was RPM, is that correct?

[cbaquol]

Yes you are correct, X axis is RPM and Y axis is boost in mbar

[bman005]

Where are you at in the RPM range when you get the buck/surge?

[cbaquol]

I will have to get logs that span a wider range in the rpms, but it really isnt the same rpm each time, it generally happens between 3-4k rpm, sometimes higher, and ONLY at WOT. Not 1/2 not 3/4. I can only replicate the problem when the pedal is to the floor, starting at a lower rpm. It is most noticable when I just push the throttle all the way to the floor in say 4th or 5th gear at a low rpm say 2k. The boost will jump to about 21 or so, then start to decline as the motor gets going. And generally right after it feels like the motor starts to pick up and the boost starts to decline, is where the surging is happening. I really wish I could take you for a ride so you could feel it and get a better idea of whats going on. It to me feels like a fuel cut, maybe an injector? Ill look to see what group they are and maybe log them tomorrow. I dont know if its related but I am getting that loud bubbling check valve noise too, but only at a lower rpm/cruising. I appreciate your time in helping me out with this alot [up]

You can see at 3040rpm on the 5th gear boost log, it seems like it dies down kinda quick then levels out. I am willing to bet that is just about the same rpm it kicked on me on that particular log.

[bman005]

Now I'm sure that the boost command should not be dropping off at WOT and 3000 rpm. It is very odd however that you are only experiencing this in 5th gear.

[cbaquol]

Well its not just in 5th gear, it happens in 3, 4, 5, and 6 if I push it. But its easier to replicate in higher gears because I can load the hell out of the motor and make the boost max out before the rpms can gain momentum, which is where I get my problem. I wonder if I could get a gopro and show you guys exaclty what happens. I wonder if the camera would pick up the jerking I am talking about if I stuck it to lke the drivers side window focused on the rpms and boost gauge. Ill call a friend and see if I can borrow his camera. But yeah it isnt just 5th, but there isnt as much load I guess on the car in 1st and 2nd so the boost doesnt get as high no matter what, and therefor its smooth, no jerking or surging at all. I am thinking of just taking my revo boost settings to like 4 or 5 so I dont get to 20 anymore and call it a day. I wish I had a mil on, even if it was something major at least I would know what it is rather than wasting everyones time and my money chasing problems in the dark!! The guys at the shop think it could be something mechanical because of the fast there is no mil, like a fixed variable in the ecu (such as the fuel pressure valve which i had my fingers crossed for but didnt work as you know)

Edit: Bman you are only an hour and 10 minutes away from me, maybe I could ride up there sometime and really show you what I am talking about

[bman005]

Edit: Bman you are only an hour and 10 minutes away from me, maybe I could ride up there sometime and really show you what I am talking about

I was thinking about that. The only reason I didn't bring it up is I'm gonna be out of town the next 2 weekends and then there's Christmas and New Year's after that. If it can wait till then I'd be down though. Plus hell, I might even be willing to come down your way...They don't sell Fat Tire in PA yet[cool]

[cbaquol]

Haha awesome, well if you make it down let me know! Otherwise I will definitely wait until you are back in town and we can figure something out. Unless ofcourse a miracle happens and I solve this before then lol. At this rate though, not likely. [headbang]

I am in phoenix by the way, which is a good 30-40 minutes north of baltimore so it would be a shorter trip. I live right on I-83 in hunt valley

[bman005]

Damn, that's not far at all. Close to Cockeysville right?

[cbaquol]

Yeah exactly, hunt valley and Cockeysville are right next to each other, I am right off the warren road exit off of 83. Even if it's not until after new years that's definitely fine id love to show you what I am talking about. Let me know and we can figure something out! Thanks man

[DRAKLORE]

I would chime in on the logs, but unfortunately I'm still getting used to the format and different variables involved with VAG.

I would say that your requested boost shouldnt be vacuum.
And like I said from the get go, I'm still highly convinced this is a mechanical failure of some sort.

[cbaquol]

I am starting to agree shane, either its a fixed variable that is failing that isn't causing the mil to come on, or possibly a sensor has failed and the failed sensor isn't tripping the fault in the ecu. Although I would be able to see a failed sensor in the vagcom software. So my next question would be what other fixed variables are on the car that could cause this without tripping the mil? For example the pressure relief valve but that didn't fix it

also, I think the requested boost is okay? I let off the throttle at the end of the logs so the boost drops down to vacuum where it would be if i was just coasting. The actual doesn't go below 1000bar due to atmospheric pressure. Unless the boost shouldn't drop that fast when I let off the throttle?

[cbaquol]

So I was just thinking and had an idea although I don't know if there is any validity to it but let me know what you guys think...

So like I have been saying the car runs great with no maf, other than the poor mpg. Now I assume the poor mpg is due to running a little rich. Correct me if I am wrong on that, but if that is true it would lead me to believe the problem could be related to my afr. I haven't logged that yet, and if it helps I am going to do a log of afr, fuel and boost with the maf again, then log the same values with the maf unplugged and compare the two. I will get back to everyone once I do this, thanks for all the help

[bman005]

So I was just thinking and had an idea although I don't know if there is any validity to it but let me know what you guys think...

So like I have been saying the car runs great with no maf, other than the poor mpg. Now I assume the poor mpg is due to running a little rich. Correct me if I am wrong on that, but if that is true it would lead me to believe the problem could be related to my afr. I haven't logged that yet, and if it helps I am going to do a log of afr, fuel and boost with the maf again, then log the same values with the maf unplugged and compare the two. I will get back to everyone once I do this, thanks for all the help

Sounds good. Can you log altitude and Front O2 correction as well? Block 6 field 4 is altitude correction and Block 33 is front O2. Monitor Front O2 while you're experiencing the surge. Altitude correction can just be key on engine off.

I'm not sure if this will help or not but I found this http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/420536-Wastegate-Adjustment

[cbaquol]

I will log what you asked for first thing in the morning and post up what I come up with thanks!

[cbaquol]

Alright I have some more logs and updates. I just got back from RAI and got an oil change/wastegate adjustment. The actual/requested are as close to perfect as I think you can get which is great. It will spike 24/25psi and hold pretty well to redline, which is fantastic. Wastegate adjustment is awesome! Unfortunately my surging is still there and kind of worse, possibly because of the higher boost. I picked up a Revo SPS today also so I am going to turn down my boost to like 18/19psi and see if the problem goes away (which I think it will honestly) Bman005, here are the logs from this morning after the wastegate adjustment, keep in mind the RS4 valve is still in there also. But, I am not sure why it is dumping at such a low bar still? What do you think? I am going to log my HPFP and also my LPFP after I eat lunch today, before I lower the boost. Also, note how the N75 duty cycle is SO much better now, it was at 99% before the adjustment, not its holding at like 78%!

3RD GEAR

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/34e61a23e607346b874d664ce5c02585c236f615421c3ac75d 184355fb96043b5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/5f423e94b4744ad199a08ca1d38b4aa72a00b701ebefcd8bc1 2f4f86d212906a5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ca55cc70fae43cbc4a550993df1f33994ed7ed4e1daa7a5d54 5b19fbf672887d5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/86a816d43c205060826e0da3e8f60ba50e15a94650f5751349 05ccf3e4fe28425g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/10eba157f795e151b568af70f320ffadd631de3b4f4064df24 4e3ceb382f656f5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/154b9a32246ff58c17a11f2273732eb6a1476137850609428b 514eaa451154d05g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/fd49800b4a1040c49340db369df0a7b8b153c7efdfcc43a58b 9340d3a642fff05g.jpg

4TH GEAR
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/fd28d5ef7a73810dbec65ed894a3a59368bb348fc78a9bb1bc 2f5c3600c544c95g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/5a359e7fe07e1b176934b4f79c9d350d9f5ceecdf2097eae9e f2122e9bbb82905g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/8224015984f72cf6106603b29c5f0655f38770e81deaef201d f3cf6875e137695g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/91326e83b31bc9036b36d7d8c35a1a3658f8e17f196fc8831a 2a55d722ff746a5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/ef7b59ffb6ba07f2b5a1d4f3276962fcd0db021cd17f1fc4c5 003ea1aed84d8a5g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/f952ccd25eac2e1f6e64865967d758771797a8bda1b36f45da abc472f0cfe7895g.jpg
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/494a8f960c7515f2eca1d8bcada4d4b7da5e42b8ec6b6d9e5f 85670304c6ccc15g.jpg

EDIT: turns out the SPS I bought is not compatible with B7's [headbang] It is an SPS3 and is now is the b5 classifieds lol

[cbaquol]

I needed to run up to the store, so just for fun I unplugged the maf again to see how it reacts after the battery reset, tune adjustment (2nd time), oil change (4th time) rs4 valve and wastegate adjustment. And of course, all the ill symptoms magically are gone. I DONT GET IT!!! It is driving me crazy, I am about to just unplug the thing for good, the car runs so damn well without it and it is just not making any sense to me (or anyone it seems like) I am going to leave it unplugged and do some logs for a comparison sake in the morning. Someone has to know what the hell is up with this thing!!!

Boost hits 23 and hold 20 for as long as I want it to, wastegate adjusment = [:D]

[cbaquol]

Well, if I havnt overloaded you guys with information yet(which I think I have since now I am basically talking to myself on this thread lol) Here is some more!!!!!

Logs with MAF UNPLUGGED. There are 2 seprate sets of runs here so note the difference in RPM to match which information matches with each other. The ignition on each cylinder looks a little funky, but I dont have any other logs to compare that too since I havnt logged it before. Does the variation tell us anything? Misfire counter was at 0. Other than that things seem on the rich side which is to be expected, otherwise they look good to me for the most part.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/TimingAngleCurrent.png
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/RailPressure.png
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/N75.png
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/Group33field0.png
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/Group33Field02.png
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/FuelPumpDuty.png
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/CylinderIgnition.png
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/Boost.png
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj139/cbaquol/No%20Maf%20logs/AFRnomaf.png

[mr shickadance]

any chance that there may have just been a bug in your tuning software? have you tried erasing your tune and seeing if you have issues, obviously call your REVO dealer and explain the situation before you go dunmping 500$ down the drain, but if REVO gives you the ok, then see if this is going on with your stock ECU settings?

[cbaquol]

The bug in the software seems like it could really be it to be honest. I did call the revo north america guy, and he told me "we copy and paste the exact file for everyone, so if you got a bad tune, then everyone does" and then said he wouldnt let me try a new tune because "there would be no point." I am going to assume that in stock mode, it will act fine (since it only acts up around 20psi). The SPS I bought I guess doesnt work for B7's, so I am selling it and I have a Plus on the way. So I cant try the stock settings until I get the new sps.

I was told by ray that some cars react differently than others, ever if it was the "same file everyone else has" so maybe my car since its an early vin, isnt liking the tune for some reason way beyond my understanding.

I am considering just switching to eurodyne or uni, but damn that would suck since I paid $600 for my revo that would be going down the drain [=(]

[bman005]

It really may be software related. I was starting to think it was a mechanical issue with your turbo, however that's usually evident by looking at the O2 sensor readings. If that (the turbo) were the case when you buck/surge the O2 correction will spike up over 20% and obviously that's not the case

[cbaquol]

Yeah I mean its the only thing left to do really, I have replaced logged and inspected EVERYTHING. I PM'ed Gary@revo on vortex (made a thread there too yesterday) asking what his thoughts were. I guess if all the 2.0 fsi revo files are the same, it might be time to switch tunes, since a new flash wont be any different. And like ray said maybe my car just isnt playing nice with the revo tuning. It sucks though because I not only paid $660 for the software (installed, still have original paperwork from the shop) but I have spent close to $1.5k I would guess with parts/labor/diagnostics chasing down the problem, and still have all the paperwork from every time I was at the shop.

A guy I know with a b5s4 who I got my original SPS from, said he had revo when he first got his car. And he had similar tendencies, and the car would just do really funky stuff when he had reccomended settings on his sps. His first solution was turning the settings very very conservative. Then he switched to another tune (Uni I believe) and he said he all his weird problems went away. I think if some cars dont mesh well with a specific tune, they should make that clear from the very start. And to really provide appropriate customer service, offer to reimburse the buyer and set them back to stock if the tune really isnt working with a specific car (I wont hold my breath) but it would be nice after TONS of money/time/effort wasted fixing a problem that shouldnt have been there in the first place. My respect for Revo would skyrocket if they do right by me one way or another. I honestly dont have money for another tune right now, but I will contact Gary again at revo after his response and see what he can do for me. I know it is a long shot, but it is at least worth trying.

I wanted to get the APR trial flash to see if the tune was the problem, but it would erase my revo and set me back to stock when the trial is over. Again, dumping the $660 down the toilet. At this point I am going to just wait to hear back from him. Thank you for your help bman I really appreciate it.

[bman005]

Hopefully they help you out

[DRAKLORE]

Unfortunately I've been in your shoes with revo before, I wasn't having tuning issues but they would do nothing for me after I dumped hundreds of dollars into their tune and upgrades +labor.
I knew they had a Gt30 file for the B7 and had it confirmed by eurocode, but no matter what begging I did they would not adapt or flash my car with it because "we gave up trying to find a low pressure fueling solution for the B7, and won't release the file until that issues been resolved"

BITCH that issue is resolved, thanks to a simple drop in DW300 courtesy of Vast.
Sometimes I do not understand the tuning scene at all

[your daddy]

turn your timing down..

[cbaquol]

I did notice it was a little high after reading the revo sps advanced setup pdf. They say a spike of 3 or so is fine but more than that is too much. 6 is considered too high, and I am seeing fairly close to that on certain occasions (group 33 field 0). What really scares me is that my timing as of now is at 3, on 93 octane fuel, which puts me in the higher level of the "safe zone" BUT the original place that tuned me had it set at 6!! I am hoping that did not cause the start of some massive internal failure.

Do NOT get revo from SSI in Towson, Maryland. Plus they wanted $60 just to change my settings when I called them out for putting my timing too high, and S2 dynamics and Euromotive does it for free even though I wasnt tuned at either place (for anyone local)

[bman005]

6 is considered too high as far as correction goes, but keep in mind that's only long term correction. In block 33 you're lookin at live front O2, if you wanna look at long term correction check block 32. Top number is at idle and the bottom number is under load. -3 to +3 is ideal spec for both numbers but that's for a stock system.

[cbaquol]

Alright tomorrow I will do a 032 log with maf plugged in, and with maf unplugged to compare. Thanks guys, hopefully we are getting somewhere!

[cbaquol]

So someone on vortex said my plugs could be gapped too far apart. As far as I know they are exactly the same as they come stock which is 044 which does seem a little far considering people say 028 to 032 seem to work best. But wouldn't that show up as a misfire?

[bman005]

It wouldn't necessarily set a misfire fault. It's worth a try, it doesn't cost anything to do that yourself

[DRAKLORE]

I had a lot of upper RPM misfires when I put in some NGK iridiums gapped at 36, I swapped back in the Bosch and the misfires stopped, dropped the gap on the iridiums to 30 and it fixed it.
Now I run copper plugs FTW :-)

[cbaquol]

Hmmm, I might just get new coil packs and new plugs, maybe coppers as well, just to try. Cant really hurt and its cheap and easy. What plugs would you guys suggest? If the iridiums I have now look fine when I pull them Ill just bring the gap to 030 and see how it goes, but if they show any signs of wear/tear I am just going to stick some new ones in for peace of mind

[DRAKLORE]

Iridiums are really finicky plugs, not many cars can benefit from them.
Coppers are a great-cheapest plug, just have to replace them more often.

[cbaquol]

Yeah I know you have to replace them more often and I'm all good with that no problem. I should also mention now that it's colder it takes more than a normal amount of cranks to start in the morning. Maybe I will benefit from the better conductive copper plugs. Any specific recommendations?

[cbaquol]

Another update, I have not had time to do logs in the last few days of timing but I will soon. I have been driving with the MAF unplugged for a few days now, and taking it easy on the throttle to try to conserve my mpg. I was leaving the gym today with a buddy and mashed it for a few seconds in 3rd and WTF the surging started happening with the MAF UNPLUGGED!?? I dont know why now it is doing it without the MAF but it has always before been the temporary solution, but now it doesnt seem like it is. I couldnt get it to happen again when I tried but it definitely did it just as bad as it would with it plugged in.

Basically the ideas from vortex and here: change all plugs with proper gap, or properly gap the ones that are in there now. All 4 coil packs just for fun (still no misfire codes), FROM VORTEX: they think I should remove my apr intake/034 inlet hose, could the added air flow be messing it up somehow in relation to the tune? I am going crazy here all I want is for the car to drive like it should AHHHHH!!

EDIT: POSSIBLE ISSUE FOUND! My BSH pcv fix plate is not seated 100% properly and at the right angle you can see the orange rubber gasket thing on the inside. I tried to take a photo but I couldnt get a really good angle with the camera to see the orange on the inside, if I can get one I will post it. I dont think it is leaking because we would have saw it in any one of the 4 pressure/smoke tests correct? Worst part is I tried to tighten the bolt (closeset to the front bumper) and it wouldnt tighten, the threads on the valve cover are stripped. I am going to look around for a bolt that is the same thread size, but a little bit longer and see if I can get it to grab with some loctite on it. If that doesnt work then the valve cover is going to be replaced now (rather than later anyways) Could this be a factor to my problem? Remember I still dont have a mil related to pcv at all (it is on now because no maf but there are no pcv related codes, or any others for that matter)

Thanks again for the input guys

[bman005]

Whats their reasoning for removing your inlet hose (curious)? You should never be able to see that gasket poking out. It could possibly be creating a leak under load. How much pressure are you using when you smoke test?

[cbaquol]

To be honest I'm not sure what replacing the intake with the stock one would do, but someone on vortex suggested it. I know I definitely shouldn't see the orange gasket but we smoke/pressure tested at 20 psi and nothing was obvious. All the smoke came out of the exhaust when I left the shop

[bman005]

Hopefully gaping the plugs will change something for you. That or your block off plate issue

[cbaquol]

Yeah man I hope so. First things (because theyre the easiest) I am going to do is change the sps settings so my boost only hits 18-19psi and move my timing around and see if I can make it happy, then look for the longer bolt, and gap the plugs properly. If none of that works, I am replacing the valve cover/rear pcv and switching to eurodyne or uni tuning.

Will keep you updated!

[bman005]

Sounds good, Good Luck!

[cbaquol]

So I got my new sps today, and since I dont have the weird usb cord that it requires, I could not adjust any settings to try and see how they make the car react. Although, I WAS able to put it back into stock mode, so I did just for fun. And wa-la no more weird stuff going on. I think because of the wastegate adjustment, it hold 15psi pretty damn well and no funky stuff anywhere. I did not get a chance to do logs though, and I did only get to hammer it a few times since it is raining pretty hard, but from what I could tell there were no weird symptoms (other than feeling heavy and slow haha)

So I am going to walmart tomorrow to pick up the cable to adjust my settings and see how it goes. I wanted to just let you guys know that the stock tune works great. Will update again tomorrow.

[cbaquol]

Well, I think I fixed it. I got my sps working today and was playing with the settings. I ended up using fuel 9 boost 3 and timing also 3. I might bump timing to 4 but as is the car is running great! Even with boost at 3 its hitting 20 and holding like 18 which is right where I wanted it, no hiccups anywhere at all! Finally happy with the car again!!

[bman005]

Well, I think I fixed it. I got my sps working today and was playing with the settings. I ended up using fuel 9 boost 3 and timing also 3. I might bump timing to 4 but as is the car is running great! Even with boost at 3 its hitting 20 and holding like 18 which is right where I wanted it, no hiccups anywhere at all! Finally happy with the car again!!

Thats awesome! Glad you got it figured out, I've been folllowing this thread the whole time and I know it frustrating for you to say the least [drive][up]

[cbaquol]

Thanks dude I appreciate all the help through this non sense i can't believe all the money I spent and all it was were the settings!

[bman005]

I know! But I'm sure it feels pretty good right now havin your car runnin right

[DRAKLORE]

Glad to hear!
It's strange because I had my settings maxed out on my sps but never experienced the issues you had?!

[cbaquol]

Yeah it really kinda is odd, it might not be the best possible "fix" but it seems safe and it running really good. Its certainly possible there is something else going on and now its just not getting beat hard enough to effect it? Who knows. It will do for now though I am not messing with it anymore! lol And I turned my timing to 4 and car still feels great, boost stayed at 20psi spike and tapers to like 17ish by redline, its pretty cool I am definitely happy with it. Thanks for your help too shane I know you guys were really thinking about this for a while so I definitely appreciate it!!

Merry christmas!!

[mcpcartier]

Awesome thread...very informative for a newbie, just picked up my car a month or two ago.

Wish I had read it earlier but that's life. Went with the REVO tune last week to take advantage of end of year sale. Seems fine, hope I don't regret it. Was close to going with UNI but the closest shop is in San Diego (I'm in OC) and that is a long way to go for any follow up work. Considering how much reading I did I'm surprised I never bumped into Eurodyne...will look into that just to get educated.

[cbaquol]

I would say definitely invest in an SPS+ if you plan to stick with revo for a while, just to know where you are at, and when you add other mods you can adjust the settings accordingly. My problems werent there right away I dont think, but I wish all the best for you. Honestly I think I just bandaged an under lying problem, but im sick of messing with it right now and it is running great so I am going to leave it alone haha

When I have some more money to blow and get a test pipe and go stage 2, I might switch to someone that offers a stage 3 tune (uni) just so I am already there when I decide to get a bigger snail. good luck and enjoy your new car man