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View Full Version : frankenturbo vs elim -STATS



spinall4
10-20-2011, 09:36 PM
Please state any experience and actual #'s you have had with either of the turbos. Also the difference in price, and what would be better for a dd/occasional track car. Also does anybody offer an ots tune for the franks yet?

Turbwhistle
10-20-2011, 09:41 PM
I am interested in this question also.

Seerlah
10-20-2011, 09:48 PM
No personal experience, but the Frankenturbo F4 will never be able to flow what the GTRS/GT71R can. And no OTS tune for the Frankenturbo, but Unitronics is working on it (so they say).

posted 8/31/2011

We do not have a specific software for these turbo yet on longitudinal engine. Work is in progress and it should be available shortly.

Turbo Nerd
10-21-2011, 01:06 AM
Stock motor GT2871 Elim 18 psi... I walked a K04'd Uni Jetta pretty good, put bus lengths on a APR stage 1 S4, and walked a GIAC stage 2 S4, walked a MK6 GTI (APR stage 2+, carbino, HPFP, TBE, light weight wheels ect.). I can tell you numerous cars I beat but I never felt the full potential of this turbo since it was on a K04 tune (ran like piss in high rpm). I want to see what it will do with a built motor and high boost which is one of the reasons I don't want to ditch the setup just this second.

biketsai
10-21-2011, 02:29 AM
Stock motor GT2871 Elim 18 psi... I walked a K04'd Uni Jetta pretty good, put bus lengths on a APR stage 1 S4, and walked a GIAC stage 2 S4, walked a MK6 GTI (APR stage 2+, carbino, HPFP, TBE, light weight wheels ect.). I can tell you numerous cars I beat but I never felt the full potential of this turbo since it was on a K04 tune (ran like piss in high rpm). I want to see what it will do with a built motor and high boost which is one of the reasons I don't want to ditch the setup just this second.

I wish my tune would run even close to that!

CamrideA4
10-21-2011, 03:18 AM
I've got about $2400 into my FT setup (that's including the FMIC that I haven't installed yet) and my car was bone stock to start. I can't comment on the price of an elim since I've never had one. There is no off the shelf tune yet, but as mentioned Uni is working on one (I wouldn't hold your breath though, it seems to be taking them a while).

As far as performance I don't have any dyno's yet but I will get one once my FMIC is installed and Malone finishes tweaking my tune. Right now I don't have any problem beating my brother-in-law's 2011 GTI (stock) by a few car lengths to 60mph. I haven't raced anyone else though, but the car feels great. The FT will hit max spool (whatever you want that to be) by 3,000rpm. For a DD I think it's great (as that's what mine is). I'm very happy with the amount on money spent and the performance I've gotten, especially know it'll get much better once my IATs are under control with the FMIC.

spinall4
10-21-2011, 05:05 AM
Stock motor GT2871 Elim 18 psi... I walked a K04'd Uni Jetta pretty good, put bus lengths on a APR stage 1 S4, and walked a GIAC stage 2 S4, walked a MK6 GTI (APR stage 2+, carbino, HPFP, TBE, light weight wheels ect.). I can tell you numerous cars I beat but I never felt the full potential of this turbo since it was on a K04 tune (ran like piss in high rpm). I want to see what it will do with a built motor and high boost which is one of the reasons I don't want to ditch the setup just this second.

Apr s4 not really impressive, but a stg2 giac s4 now we are talking a solid 110mph trapping car and you walked one? Thats impressive! I am now on my third b5 1.8t and also had a 01 s4 6spd and i ran a 13.8 @100 bone stock was def a fun car, but could not work on it myself and maintenance/labor/parts were just way to much money. I mean really $6000 for a turbo replacement job, $1500 for aftermarket downpipes wtf lol.

spinall4
10-21-2011, 05:06 AM
Turbonerd any pics or vids of it in action?

M-Hood
10-21-2011, 07:59 AM
Has anyone tried running a FT on a APR stage 3(GT28r) tune?

dcampana
10-21-2011, 08:03 AM
My mods are below. At 25psi I ran a 12.74 at 109mph. That was a stock block and then I windowed the block in 3 spots. So now I am running another stock block (I know I know) butvat 19 psi. Its slower for sure but still pretty quick.

I bought used parts and have about 2200 in it.

Turbwhistle
10-21-2011, 08:16 AM
Has anyone tried running a FT on a APR stage 3(GT28r) tune?

We should try this, you can use my car as a test car.

vinny.dtw
10-21-2011, 08:42 AM
Stock motor GT2871 Elim 18 psi... I walked a K04'd Uni Jetta pretty good, put bus lengths on a APR stage 1 S4, and walked a GIAC stage 2 S4, walked a MK6 GTI (APR stage 2+, carbino, HPFP, TBE, light weight wheels ect.). I can tell you numerous cars I beat but I never felt the full potential of this turbo since it was on a K04 tune (ran like piss in high rpm). I want to see what it will do with a built motor and high boost which is one of the reasons I don't want to ditch the setup just this second.

I'm impressed.

The tune must be called wishful thinking? [;)]. I haven't seen you in a while.

Don Supreme
10-21-2011, 08:45 AM
put bus lengths on a APR stage 1 S4,

Without even knowing any actuals about this situation, I can tell you that S4 was broken. He was probably in limp mode running 5 psi.

spinall4
10-21-2011, 09:31 AM
Without even knowing any actuals about this situation, I can tell you that S4 was broken. He was probably in limp mode running 5 psi.

Meh apr tune is crap i have seen run slower times than i did stock lol.

vinny.dtw
10-21-2011, 09:50 AM
Meh apr tune is crap i have seen run slower times than i did stock lol.

Thats most likely attributed to the nut behind the wheel.

flynnr
10-21-2011, 10:28 AM
with all of the technology these days, its crazy that we cant get videos of all of these claims...

but a gt871r running 25psi should be aroudn 400chp

giac stage 2 s4 is what 330chp?

spinall4
10-21-2011, 01:20 PM
with all of the technology these days, its crazy that we cant get videos of all of these claims...

but a gt871r running 25psi should be aroudn 400chp

giac stage 2 s4 is what 330chp?

Pretty much but the s4 also has around 400 ft/lbs and a 6spd with better gearing

Don Supreme
10-21-2011, 01:24 PM
Meh apr tune is crap i have seen run slower times than i did stock lol.

Well I had a gt71 elim A4, and I also had an APR chip on my S4 back when it was stock turbo.. I raced a gt71 elim a4s, running more than 18 psi and other faster A4 setups.. and they lost.

As I have said before on the forum. I have ran many A4s in my S4. While running the ko3 s4, I lost to a 35r A4 (stroked 2.0) (running low boost to boot), and a big Borg warner turbo s364 or something like that....

Now keep that in mind, there is NO WAY he put bus lengths on a properly running chipped b5 s4, with a half decent driver.... especially @ only 18 psi. I am not doubting his story, so the logical conclusion is that the car he raced was broken.

spinall4
10-21-2011, 01:30 PM
Now keep that in mind, there is NO WAY he put bus length on a properly running chipped b5 s4, with a half decent driver.... especially @ only 18 psi. I am not doubting his story, so the logical conclusion is that the car he raced was broken.
/truth

2BehindJordan
10-21-2011, 01:50 PM
Thats most likely attributed to the nut behind the wheel.

[=(] LOL

ZimbutheMonkey
10-21-2011, 03:15 PM
Has anyone tried running a FT on a APR stage 3(GT28r) tune?

I can't speak for the Frankenturbo directly, but my K04 hybrid (which was very close to a F4L) was run most of it's life on an Upsolute GT28 tune. So if you're hinting that you can probably get away with it (and I'm preeetty sure you are [;)]) , I'll agree with you 100% on that.

Personally, I think people are making way too big a deal over not being able to find a 'proper tune'. Really people, Audis aren't that 'special'. As long as you're running a MAF and the turbo you're running doesn't flow way more air at a given PSI than the file thinks it should be seeing (like 21 PSI on a K03 vs 21 PSI on a 71r), then it should work. It may require some logging and fiddling to make it perfect, but you can dial it in eventually.

Anyway, just saying that not having an OTS tune for a F4L is not a really good reason to pass on buying one. Also, remember that most of the OTS tunes are just that, OTS. It's not tuned exactly to your hardware anyway. So in any case you'll probably end up having to do a little legwork of your own to get it optimal no matter what canned file you get.

The Wheelman
10-21-2011, 04:42 PM
2000 A4 atw car with a stock aeb motor, 71r elim, revo stg3 custom file, 550cc, 3 bar, 3 inch exhaust, FMIC, 2.5 inch ic piping, MBC, 3 inch intake after stock maf, forge dv, no emissions or pcv crap.

run it on 20 psi mostly, have run it on 24psi with no timing pull or knock on 93 octane but i'm keeping the timing numbers very low. car pulls real hard on the highway. dont have any numbers on it yet but its fasssssttt on 24psi and a 5500 rpm launch will spin all 4. going with a 01.5 awm harness and ecu for the wideband o2 and better software options.

a little laggy on the street and with a 6 puck copper clutch it can be a bitch to drive around town but i dont care. frankenturbos or any kkk turbo is gonna be easier to DD from faster boost response. i dont hit full boost until 5k rpm or so iirc havent driven it in awhile been parked with no exhaust on it

CamrideA4
10-21-2011, 05:02 PM
I can't speak for the Frankenturbo directly, but my K04 hybrid (which was very close to a F4L) was run most of it's life on an Upsolute GT28 tune. So if you're hinting that you can probably get away with it (and I'm preeetty sure you are [;)]) , I'll agree with you 100% on that.

Personally, I think people are making way too big a deal over not being able to find a 'proper tune'. Really people, Audis aren't that 'special'. As long as you're running a MAF and the turbo you're running doesn't flow way more air at a given PSI than the file thinks it should be seeing (like 21 PSI on a K03 vs 21 PSI on a 71r), then it should work. It may require some logging and fiddling to make it perfect, but you can dial it in eventually.

Anyway, just saying that not having an OTS tune for a F4L is not a really good reason to pass on buying one. Also, remember that most of the OTS tunes are just that, OTS. It's not tuned exactly to your hardware anyway. So in any case you'll probably end up having to do a little legwork of your own to get it optimal no matter what canned file you get.

Yep. Most of the time spent tuning my car with Malone has been dealing with part throttle issues and other things like that. WOT it runs great. There has been some tweaking there and testing with different boost levels, but overall it just runs great at WOT. I'm running between 225-235g/s through the MAF right now and it feels good. I'll be even happier once I get this damn FMIC installed tomorrow. [:D]

Info@EuroCode
10-21-2011, 05:12 PM
We have run the REVO GTRS 550 file on the CH box with a 3bar FPR and the Frankenturbo performed flawlessly. I cannot imagine it making more than 250WHP though.

coolgraymemo
10-21-2011, 05:20 PM
We have run the REVO GTRS 550 file on the CH box with a 3bar FPR and the Frankenturbo performed flawlessly. I cannot imagine it making more than 250WHP though.

If I was to put a FT setup on my car, that would be enough power for me.

Any tunes for nDBW cars?

Info@EuroCode
10-21-2011, 05:54 PM
No tunes for any non drive by wire cars on the B5 chassis. REVO does not formally suppport Frankenturbo if you go with a REVO file it will be a semi home brew setup.

ZimbutheMonkey
10-21-2011, 06:18 PM
Yep. Most of the time spent tuning my car with Malone has been dealing with part throttle issues and other things like that. WOT it runs great. There has been some tweaking there and testing with different boost levels, but overall it just runs great at WOT. I'm running between 225-235g/s through the MAF right now and it feels good. I'll be even happier once I get this damn FMIC installed tomorrow. [:D]

Funny how that works eh? It's been the same with my Eurodyne setup. Not that there were any problems with the base file per-se. But the first order of business was to try and optimize the off boost/part throttle response since 99% of my driving occurs there. Hell, with traffic the way it is where I live, sometimes I can go an entire day without ever getting a chance to put my foot down.

Strangely enough, my most daunting task so far has been tuning at idle. I put a VR6 TB on and the damn car refuses to idle at a set point. It keeps surging from 1000-1500 RPM. Problem is, I'm starting to think that Chris Tapp didn't access any maps necessary to change the idle in the ME3.8/5.2 release of Maestro.

Turbo Nerd
10-21-2011, 10:40 PM
Without even knowing any actuals about this situation, I can tell you that S4 was broken. He was probably in limp mode running 5 psi.

Might of been in stock mode I'm not sure but I wouldn't lie to impress anybody. Also maybe it wasn't bus lengths but probably 5-6 cars and pulling (car was running healthy that day). When I ran the stage 2 the driver said his drive shaft was messed up or something so he couldn't shift to fast (something along those lines I don't remember it was last year). Yeah I'm not trying to say my car was faster than theirs but I did in fact beat them. The stage 2 car always ran like ass put it turbos 2 or 3 times and it's smoking again lol.

I'm not one to cause any drama and say my car is better than someone else's or anything along those lines. The car was getting faster and faster before my #1 rod decided he wanted to go to the moon (idk wtf he was thinking). Whatever we will see what's it like with a built motor, race gas, real tune, and high boost.

Turbo Nerd
10-21-2011, 11:10 PM
I'm impressed.

The tune must be called wishful thinking? [;)]. I haven't seen you in a while.

What do you mean I'm on this site every night lol.

vinny.dtw
10-22-2011, 11:53 AM
What do you mean I'm on this site every night lol.

in person jerk.

Turbo Nerd
10-22-2011, 12:05 PM
I'm not sure if I know you. If your thinking this is Louis it isn't.

vinny.dtw
10-23-2011, 08:51 AM
I'm not sure if I know you. If your thinking this is Louis it isn't.

Yea, I thought it was...oops?

Shhmaudi
10-23-2011, 12:41 PM
This is my most recent win
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/453564-I-beat-a-B6-V8-S4!


http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSpeigels?feature=mhee#p/u/5/m9GYGmNdtxo
And a lil montage I put together after I got my new exhaust and Go Pro

http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSpeigels?feature=mhee#p/u/3/Jkl8bx-Y4kM

Turbo Nerd
10-23-2011, 12:47 PM
Yea, I thought it was...oops?

I bought it from him last year.

flynnr
10-23-2011, 12:49 PM
[QUOTE=Shhmaudi;6967978]This is my most recent win
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/453564-I-beat-a-B6-V8-S4!


http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSpeigels?feature=mhee#p/u/5/m9GYGmNdtxo
And a lil montage I put together after I got my new exhaust and Go Pro

http://www.youtube.com/user/MrSpeigels?feature=mhee#p/u/3/Jkl8bx-Y4kM[/QUOTE

you running a little rich? soudns good though.

Shhmaudi
10-23-2011, 12:53 PM
you running a little rich? soudns good though.

Yea I am running a lil rich. How could you tell? I know its a lil off topic but how do you correct that with a 440cc unitronics tune on a 98? Its killing me when I go to down shift and rev match it hesitates and bogs a bit..

flynnr
10-23-2011, 05:55 PM
It just sounded like itto me.

and you can see it in your video that you have some smoke coming out of your exhaust

i recommend getting an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. i had that same tune and I ran a bit rich too and tweaking my FPR helped a lot.

Shhmaudi
10-23-2011, 08:44 PM
It just sounded like itto me.

and you can see it in your video that you have some smoke coming out of your exhaust

i recommend getting an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. i had that same tune and I ran a bit rich too and tweaking my FPR helped a lot.

Did you mount the FPR on the fuel rail? I forget what year was your last a4? Did you have a A/F gauge?

thanks for the help

I gues you can pm me if you wanna stay on topic here

vinny.dtw
10-23-2011, 10:06 PM
I bought it from him last year.

Wait a second...this is Lou's brother isn't it?! lol

flynnr
10-23-2011, 10:50 PM
Did you mount the FPR on the fuel rail? I forget what year was your last a4? Did you have a A/F gauge?

thanks for the help

I gues you can pm me if you wanna stay on topic here

last a4 was a 97. and no i didnt have an a/f gauge to be honest. i kept it pretty near what it was supposed to be, but just tweaked it a little bit and it felt much better

flynnr
10-23-2011, 10:54 PM
you can see it in this picture. it looks similar to the oem one, but there was a knob you could twist. gauge too

Turbo Nerd
10-23-2011, 11:00 PM
Wait a second...this is Lou's brother isn't it?! lol

Nope Lou's cousin, Lou's brother has a URS6. Do you have the 2L B6 with BBS CH's? If so I seen your car at his house when he was working on it.

Shhmaudi
10-23-2011, 11:01 PM
I cant see the pic?

Kool thanks for the info! I wanna more videos of your car Flynn

vinny.dtw
10-24-2011, 06:14 AM
Nope Lou's cousin, Lou's brother has a URS6. Do you have the 2L B6 with BBS CH's? If so I seen your car at his house when he was working on it.

ahh make sense. Yea, thats my B6. small world [:D], lou was just telling me your car plans last night.

Shhmaudi
10-24-2011, 01:45 PM
last a4 was a 97. and no i didnt have an a/f gauge to be honest. i kept it pretty near what it was supposed to be, but just tweaked it a little bit and it felt much better

W/O a a/f gauge, Weren't you terrified that you would lean out and blow the motor?

flynnr
10-24-2011, 05:06 PM
W/O a a/f gauge, Weren't you terrified that you would lean out and blow the motor?

well, my car had a k04 on it before, with the GIAC pc-16 tune, and people said that instead of the 3bar fpr, which ran a tad rich, to adjust it to 2.8ish...

i figured if i knew my car was running rich (it was very, very obvious) that i would just bump it down a hair like i did for that. I have a FP gauge, so i knew where it was at, i just only tweaked it a small amount, so i wasnt to wooried.

I dont own that car anymore (sadly) but my next plan of action was to put in an A/F gauge.

I have a wideband setup in my current car though...

I can take video of whatever you guys want - the gauge cluster on a WOT run, etc since i have a gopro that collects dust.

here is that pic btw (must have forgotten to paste what i copied ha)

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii155/flynnr1/CIMG0918-2.jpg

cpu77
10-28-2011, 06:04 AM
My Frankenturbo tuned by Dave@Motoza has been great. Out of the box the tune was pretty good. The only issue was a boost leak not his fault. I would go with Dave in a heart beat. I actually may franken turbo our other car! I will post my review once the boost leak is fixed and I am on my final tune.

Turbwhistle
10-28-2011, 09:42 AM
Would it be worth getting a frankenturbo kit this summer, and getting a gt2871r or larger later?

biketsai
10-28-2011, 09:59 AM
Would it be worth getting a frankenturbo kit this summer, and getting a gt2871r or larger later?

I think it depends on what type of turbo setup you want. Quick spooling with more torque/less power, or a little later spooling with more power. IMHO, sometimes I wish I had something that would spool up quick down low.

cpu77
10-28-2011, 10:24 AM
I personally like quick spooling corner cutting daily driver. Turbo LAG SUCKS!

M-Hood
10-28-2011, 11:01 AM
I personally like quick spooling corner cutting daily driver. Turbo LAG SUCKS!

Turbo lag is a driver error not a turbo issue. Turbos now have very little "lag". Now what your talking about is boost threshold which is at what rpm the turbo produces boost. If the driver is below the boost threshold then they are out of the power band. If we all wanted the lowest rpm boost threshold we would all still be driving K03's. lol

If my GT35r setup is driving in the power band it can pretty much feel like a NA car.

Seerlah
10-28-2011, 11:08 AM
Would it be worth getting a frankenturbo kit this summer, and getting a gt2871r or larger later?

As they say, do it once and do it right (Do it right or do it twice). Think about what you want your end goal to be. But really, I would not look into a turbo setup that underperforms the GT2860RS unless that was your final goal (ie getting the Frankenturbo because you don't plan on pursuing more power, and just wanted a more peppey dd).

cpu77
10-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Turbo lag is a driver error not a turbo issue. Turbos now have very little "lag". Now what your talking about is boost threshold which is at what rpm the turbo produces boost. If the driver is below the boost threshold then they are out of the power band. If we all wanted the lowest rpm boost threshold we would all still be driving K03's. lol

If my GT35r setup is driving in the power band it can pretty much feel like a NA car.

I see your point. Just not a big fan of the REV. I hate when you have to rev the guts out to make power. Just not my thing. I used to rock a pair of K24's on my GT2 package. THEY SUCKED BALLS! I bought some ZC K16/k24 they build boost at 2100 and make 528AWHP. They don't have quiet the top end of a k24 but boy at least the car is quick from almost any rpm. I am a lazy driver though:)

M-Hood
10-28-2011, 12:14 PM
I love the sound of the 1.8t when it is revved to 8500 rpms, the thing just sings.

Shhmaudi
10-28-2011, 12:28 PM
Gt2860 or 2871I is really the middle of the road turbo. Best of both worlds. I know the 71 spools a little later but when you stay in the powerband its really not that noticeable. I feel like my audi loves to be around 45k-5k

M-Hood
10-28-2011, 12:41 PM
Gt2860 or 2871I is really the middle of the road turbo. Best of both worlds. I know the 71 spools a little later but when you stay in the powerband its really not that noticeable. I feel like my audi loves to be around 45k-5k

Plus now with companies doing those size with billet wheels you can actually end up with quicker spool and more peak power.

Seerlah
10-28-2011, 01:37 PM
The Precision version of the Disco Potatoe actually comes standard with a billet wheel (only t25 internal wastegate, though).

M-Hood
10-28-2011, 03:50 PM
The Precision version of the Disco Potatoe actually comes standard with a billet wheel (only t25 internal wastegate, though).

Same with FP HTA and Comp turbo, those can also be ordered without an exhaust housing, with a T3 housing or even with a Tial housing since they both use a Garrett bolt pattern for the housing to CHRA.

BTW what is the part number of the PTE disco, 5128?

Seerlah
10-28-2011, 04:01 PM
Precision GT296RS or PTE 4828 (same thing)

M-Hood
10-28-2011, 04:13 PM
Precision GT296RS or PTE 4828 (same thing)

Oh. Then their 5128 is their version of the 2871. Their listing for the 4828 only comes with a B cover while the 5128 has B and E cover options.

I wonder how those 2 PTE compares to the smallest of the CT CTB-30r disco.
4828 - 48mm compressor wheel, 53.8 turbine
5128 - 51mm compressor wheel and 53.8 turbine
CTB - 55mm compressor and 58mm turbine

Seerlah
10-28-2011, 04:32 PM
I saw Dan's thread, and got curious and started to look into those turbochargers (which I must say are some beautifull peices of machinery...and are fully rebuildable). And now knowing that those can bolt onto my T3 GT28xx exhaust housing makes it even better. So for my application, I would need the 60mm compressor wheel and 60mm turbine wheel (.63 A/R turbine housing)? You know the average price range of these things? And would you consider these over the HTA upgrades to the regular Garrett GT28xx turbocharger?

Also, just learned the Precision 4828 is dual cermaic ball bearing.

M-Hood
10-29-2011, 05:09 PM
I saw Dan's thread, and got curious and started to look into those turbochargers (which I must say are some beautifull peices of machinery...and are fully rebuildable). And now knowing that those can bolt onto my T3 GT28xx exhaust housing makes it even better. So for my application, I would need the 60mm compressor wheel and 60mm turbine wheel (.63 A/R turbine housing)? You know the average price range of these things? And would you consider these over the HTA upgrades to the regular Garrett GT28xx turbocharger?

Also, just learned the Precision 4828 is dual cermaic ball bearing.

I am waiting to hear back from Justin at CT, but looks like the CTB-30r with the T25 housing lists for $1249. Pretty sure it should be the same with a T3 housing.

M-Hood
11-02-2011, 09:37 AM
Well just talked to Justin at CT, they actually offer some smaller versions of their CTB-30r. They also offer a 47, 51 and 53 compressor wheel setup for the 28rs compressor housing. He will be emailing me all that info and pics some time today. So those should be closer to what PTE offers with the 4828/5128 and the HTA 68/71/73.