PDA

View Full Version : Bilstein sport shocks vs cheaper coils (St/d2/k-sport/vmaxx)??



a4rings
10-05-2011, 11:45 AM
Hi guys,

My car is dropped on neuspeed race springs on stock sport shocks (30k on this combo and 70k overall) and I've noticed that my car sits unevenly in the front. The front passenger sits noticieably lower and can be viewed even from the rear of the vehicle.

I also recently went to get an alignment done and even after the alignment guy said "everything was within specs", verified by a print out he gave me, the car still pulls to the right.

I know the shocks are pretty worn as they bounce quite a bit more than originally but from my understanding failing shocks will not lower the ride height of the vehicle?

Anyone know what could be causing the problem???

I just recently put on some hankook ventus v12's and now the car pulls to the left rather than the right (opposite from the uneven side) so now I'm pretty torn, I've decided to either get

1) bilstein sport shocks and just hope my old neuspeed springs are not damaged
2) bilstein sport shocks plus new h&r race or neuspeed rac ( are there any better springs?)
3) get a cheap set of coils like st's or maybe d2's, k-sport, vmaxx etc.

This car is my daily drover and will probably never see track time but I do drive aversively and don't mind a stiff ride ( I'm still pretty young)

Do you think I would be better off with the bilstein shocks or the cheaper coilovers?


And last thing, can anyone give me the part numbers for s4 St could and the a4 St coils? I'm considering running the s4 St could because of the stiffer spring rates

Thanks in advance!

a4rings
10-05-2011, 02:44 PM
nobody has opinions on bilsteins sport shocks vs cheaper coilovers?

yoffer
10-05-2011, 03:17 PM
Dont get vmaxx, whatever you do, please. Ive had these. Absolute garbage. HATE VMAXX!! I currently have d2's on and i love them. I have them on the stiffest setting and ive reccomended them to numerous people. I sit at 22 3/4 gtf front and about 23 rear. Car rides great. Stiff and comfortable, but they are adjustable, but never drove on a softer setting so i cant tell you whats it feel like under different dampening adjustments. I have great things to say about st, ive had st's the only thing is they are too soft for my taste (bump stops taken out of course), and i like the fact that my d2's can be height adjusted without reducing shock travel so i dont have to hit the bumpstops over every little dip in the road.

NeedingAnAudi
10-05-2011, 03:45 PM
A4 ST's and S4 ST's are the same thing. As a ST owner I vouch for them.

ThePeoplesChamp
10-05-2011, 03:51 PM
DONT GET VMAXX. I vote for ST. I haven't really had any comments about the others though

FNK
10-05-2011, 04:04 PM
My OEM non-sport swaybars where twisted and made the car uneven. I installed used OEM S4 swaybars and all was fine. Remove it and you'll see.

As for the withing spec, have you compared the alignment values to the values set by Audi yourself?

a4rings
10-05-2011, 06:04 PM
I'll post some pictures of my suspension when I get home to see if you guys can see anything that looks wrong.

Also, I was under the impression that there were two distinct kits for the s4 and a4 with different spring rates?

I remember reading a4rob mentioning he runs the s4 coils on his a4 because of the stiffer spring rates

NeedingAnAudi
10-05-2011, 06:05 PM
I'll post some pictures of my suspension when I get home to see if you guys can see anything that looks wrong.

Also, I was under the impression that there were two distinct kits for the s4 and a4 with different spring rates?

I remember reading a4rob mentioning he runs the s4 coils on his a4 because of the stiffer spring rates

Rob does run s4 ST's correct. But they have since redesigned their coilovers and no longer have a4 and s4.

howardfootball
10-05-2011, 06:42 PM
Well there was a thread not to long ago about some Raceland CO's that seem to be a good deal. They were like $350. I was suspicious at first, but after looking into them more I found that the VW guys run them without any complaints.

Found it: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/450101-Raceland-Coilovers

a4rings
10-05-2011, 07:14 PM
Well there was a thread not to long ago about some Raceland CO's that seem to be a good deal. They were like $350. I was suspicious at first, but after looking into them more I found that the VW guys run them without any complaints.

Found it: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/450101-Raceland-Coilovers

i think they are months backordered

a4rings
10-05-2011, 07:15 PM
Rob does run s4 ST's correct. But they have since redesigned their coilovers and no longer have a4 and s4.

do you have any idea if the new design ones are more comparable to the old a4 or s4 spring rates?

a4rings
10-05-2011, 08:34 PM
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1145.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1146.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1147.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1148.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1151.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1153.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1154.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1155.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1158.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1162.jpg

viceprp
10-06-2011, 02:49 AM
Do a nice set of CO's if you want to be adjustable during the seasons. I'm running on Bilstein / h&r sports and they run like a dream. I might eventually run KW v1 since they are stainless steal.

2BehindJordan
10-06-2011, 03:22 AM
If my opinion helps, I'm on the combo of bilstein / H&R race and it's the happiest I've been with a suspension combo in a while.

fbdohc
10-06-2011, 06:07 AM
the bilstein / h&r race are too smooth. I've enjoy them a year but its time to go stiffer , i will go pick my vogtland coilover tomorrow :)

fbdohc
10-06-2011, 06:16 AM
the bilstein / h&r race are too smooth. I've enjoy them a year but its time to go stiffer , i will go pick my vogtland coilover tomorrow :)

2BehindJordan
10-06-2011, 07:51 AM
I don't blame ya lol, I'm a fan of the caddy like smoothness lol. Hope you enjoy the coilovers tho

Justin@FCP
10-06-2011, 08:33 AM
If my opinion helps, I'm on the combo of bilstein / H&R race and it's the happiest I've been with a suspension combo in a while.

For my A4, I'm on Bilstein Sport Shocks/H&R Race springs, and I love the way it rides.
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab323/jnukis/SIDEDAY-1-1.jpg

I like the setup so much, I just put a similar set-up on my B5.5 Passat, just with H&R Sport springs.
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab323/jnukis/IMG_20111002_142222-1.jpg

fbdohc
10-06-2011, 10:16 AM
I don't blame ya lol, I'm a fan of the caddy like smoothness lol. Hope you enjoy the coilovers tho

Hope i'll like it too lol, i want to have the same road to road feeling that i had with my crx :P

CamrideA4
10-06-2011, 12:06 PM
I love my ST's. I've got them at about 24.5" GTF and it rides perfect. I came from stock suspension @ 150k miles though. [:D]

I do have a similar issue as the OP though, I've got my passenger side front perch up a full inch higher than the driver side to sit at the same GTF. Maybe my sway bar is bent? I'm going to ask the shop that's doing my alignment tomorrow and see what they think.

a4rings
10-06-2011, 12:50 PM
Does this control arm bushing look like it needs to be replaced?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/a4rings/102_1147.jpg

yoffer
10-06-2011, 12:52 PM
the bilstein / h&r race are too smooth. I've enjoy them a year but its time to go stiffer , i will go pick my vogtland coilover tomorrow :)
Good luck with that, vogtland doesnt ride as stiff as you might think. I would rather stick with the billie/h&r setup before i go with vogtland

fbdohc
10-06-2011, 01:03 PM
You've experienced this setup ?
Before buying it i read couple good feedbacks about it...

yoffer
10-06-2011, 01:30 PM
You've experienced this setup ?
Before buying it i read couple good feedbacks about it...
Yes i have. Not in my own personal car though. A friend of mine has them on his and he cant even ride passengers on the back because its sags so much. Same goes for vmaxx. I would rather go with st's if i were you. Most of your reviews are from people that go from completely stock to coils or from lowering springs to coils. Ive had 3 different coilovers on my car alone. If you want something thats going to ride good and not sag with passengers in the car, but also dont want fillings to come out of your teeth when you go over bumps then i would go with st's. I ran them for about 5 months before i decided to ditch them for the d2's because i didnt like riding on bumpstops.

fbdohc
10-06-2011, 01:47 PM
when you say sag, you mean.... bouncy ?

a4rings
10-06-2011, 02:18 PM
how do you change the dampening on the d2 coils? does it have th knob to twist like on the e46 kits or do you have to take them apart to adjust them?

yoffer
10-06-2011, 02:28 PM
when you say sag, you mean.... bouncy ?
I mean sag as in, when he puts 1 person in the back seat the car squats down another inch. Its rediculous.

yoffer
10-06-2011, 02:33 PM
how do you change the dampening on the d2 coils? does it have th knob to twist like on the e46 kits or do you have to take them apart to adjust them?
Yes thats exactly how you adjust them. They come with the knobs for adjustment. They come with their own tophats for the fronts so there is no need to reuse your oem top hats like the majority of the coilovers for our cars. The rear however is setup just like the rest where you reuse the the oem rubber spring pads. The rear you have to take off the top shock mount to adjust the dampening, but its really not that bad. The only set back is that you have to take off the entire assembly to adjust the dampening, but thats because of the way our cars were designed, it would be very nice to be able to adjust it by just opening our hood or trunk, but im not complaining.

a4rings
10-06-2011, 02:33 PM
Yes i have. Not in my own personal car though. A friend of mine has them on his and he cant even ride passengers on the back because its sags so much. Same goes for vmaxx. I would rather go with st's if i were you. Most of your reviews are from people that go from completely stock to coils or from lowering springs to coils. Ive had 3 different coilovers on my car alone. If you want something thats going to ride good and not sag with passengers in the car, but also dont want fillings to come out of your teeth when you go over bumps then i would go with st's. I ran them for about 5 months before i decided to ditch them for the d2's because i didnt like riding on bumpstops.

how do you change the dampening on the d2 coils? does it have th knob to twist like on the e46 kits or do you have to take them apart to adjust them?

yoffer
10-06-2011, 02:38 PM
Post #28.

a4rings
10-06-2011, 02:42 PM
Post #28.

sorry about that we must have posted at the same time haha

so for the front you can just open the hood and turn the knobs to adjust the dampening?

ianwpb
10-06-2011, 03:08 PM
I loooove my Bilstein sports/H&R sports combo. Very nice ride. I'm at 25 GTF front/25.5 GTF rear. If I could do it again I would have saved for C/O's. I wish I had the adjustability. I'm thinking of doing the ECS coilover kit. 300 for front and rear.

I will say that the rear is not stiff enough though. If I have more than 2 people in my car, meaning people sitting in the backseat, I scrape (with 17.5mm spacers in the rear). I'm not running spacers now because of how annoying it was.

myfairlady
10-06-2011, 07:08 PM
my h&r race/bilstein hd setup rides better than any car i've ever been in

fbdohc
10-07-2011, 10:35 AM
Yes i have. Not in my own personal car though. A friend of mine has them on his and he cant even ride passengers on the back because its sags so much. Same goes for vmaxx. I would rather go with st's if i were you. Most of your reviews are from people that go from completely stock to coils or from lowering springs to coils. Ive had 3 different coilovers on my car alone. If you want something thats going to ride good and not sag with passengers in the car, but also dont want fillings to come out of your teeth when you go over bumps then i would go with st's. I ran them for about 5 months before i decided to ditch them for the d2's because i didnt like riding on bumpstops.

Wow my bad i dont know how i came with the idea i bought vogtland coilovers but they're ST COILOVERS by KW
http://www.amimotorsports.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3031
are they better than vogtland ?!

Justin@FCP
10-07-2011, 11:12 AM
For my Audi, if I was to do it again, I'd stay with the same shocks, but get H&R Sport springs instead of Race. With the Race springs I scrape on my most speed bumps, and it's just a little too low for what I'd like with my wife driving. [:D]

a4rings
10-07-2011, 12:34 PM
For my Audi, if I was to do it again, I'd stay with the same shocks, but get H&R Sport springs instead of Race. With the Race springs I scrape on my most speed bumps, and it's just a little too low for what I'd like with my wife driving. [:D]


anyone have comments on blistein sport shocks vs Bilstein HD shocks?

Also would you guys recommend replacing the bump stops and spring perch/pad's ? the car has 70k (30k on stock sport shock/neuspeed race combo)

Would i even need to reuse these if i were to get the ST coilovers? or just if i wanted to run the bilstein shocks with my neuspeed springs.

BlackLock_A4
10-08-2011, 12:37 AM
A4 ST's and S4 ST's are the same thing. As a ST owner I vouch for them.

I fully agree.

o2bad455
10-08-2011, 07:34 AM
The OP said car lower on one side. This can be caused by a failing gas-charged shock, a damaged spring, or various other spring-related parts (e.g., damaged or missing spring rubbers, incorrectly installed spring perch, incorect part number replacement spring perch (2001 m.y. split, IIRC), etc.). If you're happy with the spring rates and average height, I'd start by upgrading to te Bilsteins and have a close look at everything while both are out. I've put Bilsteins in virtually everything I've ever owned, and always been pleased with the results.

o2bad455
10-08-2011, 07:43 AM
anyone have comments on blistein sport shocks vs Bilstein HD shocks?

If you can ind the Bilstein Motorsports catalog, it may tell the exact differences for your app. The Sports used to have slightly higher damping (for stiffer springs), but more recently seem to have same damping but shorter shafts (to work better with lowered ride height). When there's a choice, I almost always go with the Sports since I lower just about everything a bit.

o2bad455
10-08-2011, 08:13 AM
For my Audi, if I was to do it again, I'd stay with the same shocks, but get H&R Sport springs instead of Race. With the Race springs I scrape on my most speed bumps, and it's just a little too low for what I'd like with my wife driving.

Anyone know the spring rate (e.g., 350 lbs/in) differences between H&R race and sport? Are the race significantly stiffer?

yoffer
10-08-2011, 11:21 AM
The OP said car lower on one side. This can be caused by a failing gas-charged shock, a damaged spring, or various other spring-related parts (e.g., damaged or missing spring rubbers, incorrectly installed spring perch, incorect part number replacement spring perch (2001 m.y. split, IIRC), etc.). If you're happy with the spring rates and average height, I'd start by upgrading to te Bilsteins and have a close look at everything while both are out. I've put Bilsteins in virtually everything I've ever owned, and always been pleased with the results. A bad shock wont cause the car to lean more to one side than the other. The shock has no affect on how high the car sits, its not weight bearing. Could be a bad spring or bent sway bar causing this.

SeekB00st
10-08-2011, 12:49 PM
I ran bilstiens with neuspeed for 3 years.

I now run VMAXX's. Very happy with their preformance. However, the A4 is a metal cage (All the interior is remove - except seats) and purley driven as a track car. Two months ago I replaced the springs with bilstein springs as I was not happy with with the spring rate. I've never been more happier; the A4 out corners my E36 M3 on bilstein PSS coils and other associated suspension modifications.

In short the shocks are good. The exponential spring rate on the VMaxx's is something to avoid.

a4rings
10-08-2011, 07:17 PM
A bad shock wont cause the car to lean more to one side than the other. The shock has no affect on how high the car sits, its not weight bearing. Could be a bad spring or bent sway bar causing this.

I thought the same thing but i was talking with a bilstein rep yeserday and he said that if on of my front shocks was blown and the other side as not so bad, then that could definitely make the side with the blown shock sit a bit lower. (although the springs do hold the majority of the weight)

blackwat5r
10-08-2011, 10:27 PM
I ran bilstiens with neuspeed for 3 years.

I now run VMAXX's. Very happy with their preformance. However, the A4 is a metal cage (All the interior is remove - except seats) and purley driven as a track car. Two months ago I replaced the springs with bilstein springs as I was not happy with with the spring rate. I've never been more happier; the A4 out corners my E36 M3 on bilstein PSS coils and other associated suspension modifications.

In short the shocks are good. The exponential spring rate on the VMaxx's is something to avoid.

What Bilstein springs are you running? I also chose to ditch the weak Vmaxx springs and swapped them out for an Intrax set. I'm very happy with the rears but the front shocks are under dampened. I was going to get some Koni adjustables for the front with and ECS coilover kit and call it a day but now you've got me thinking that a linear spring rate for the fronts might be an alternate solution. (Intrax springs: front=progressive, rear=linear)