Questions and decisions... 2004 A6 with 93K.

[Romania]

So in may of 2010 I got my A6 2.7 6 SpM. at that time it had about 85K miles on it. I purchased the mofo in MI. After I got home in OH, the very next day I had to replace the head gaskets...and since than I had only bad luck with it (got hit by other people about 5 times..once in a parking lot, this girl just smashed into my rear..)
Now this year, in april, my clutch gave up, i started asking questions, left and right about the job... Found out that it's about 20 hrs (give or take)[headbang]. The car is still not fixed since I went to Europe for about 2 1/2 months, so now I am getting it fixed. My 2 mechanics told me my pass side turbo is leaking [facepalm][facepalm][facepalm]...Also they said that if I change the turbos now, it will save me about 5 hrs on the labor, since the job itself is about 10 hrs (I really have no idea how long or how hard it is to replace them)

I am getting the RS4 clutch kit for the car, I found a pair of K04s at a very good price (just the turbos, not the whole kit). In the future I plan on getting it chipped. I hear the the clutch will not hold on K04s + chip (abt 450 HRP?!?!). Yeah, that's what I was told I would be getting if I put K04s and chip. Doesn't sound realistic, but I don't know, that's what I was told.

My question is this:

Is there any other way around this? Can I get chip and K04's and not put out so many horse power? The reason I don't want K03s is because the stink, and I don't want K04s because the car is stock at this time and I don't want to put more $ in it. I feel that if I can get about 350 HrP that should be enough..

What is the best combo to get about 350 hrp?!

Thanks guys...

[Romania]

Also, what else should I consider on replacing since I am going to have the clutch out, and most likely the turbos?!

[Paliincali91]

I had a thread out about my clutch about the same time yours went out.Yeah it's a total bitch! 20 hours, fuck our lives!

I still haven't fixed my car since I haven't received all the parts yet, but they all should be in within two weeks.

I'm replacing my clutch with and RS4 clutch, and a Fidanza flywheel. I also am getting new a new valve cover gasket because I think my car leaks oil; And since I got this car not too long ago and don't have to much history on when things were done I'm changing out the timing belt and the water pump.

I got quoted for labor only on those 3 things for 2K, and that's the cheapest I found (from a friend's,friend).

So since your in there, change out the:
Timing belt and Water pump
Valve cover gaskets (this really can be done anytime)
Flywheel

I'm sure there's more little things you can change but that's all I can think of at the moment.

But I got all the parts for around 1k, give or take. But yeah, definitely let me know how much you get quoted, I'm really curious.
Good luck!

[Romania]

for labor it's $60 hr, an the guys has his own business, foreign cars are his specialty..The RS4 clutch (no fw) it's 475, turbos K04s i might get for about $800 (donno what brand)...

[8520]

The brand of ko4's is VERY important. Chinese K04's or the RP's have plenty of horror stories if you wander over to the b5s4 forum. Make sure the ko4's you get are either Frankenturbos or genuine borg warners.

As far as fueling goes, you can get what is called a "stage 3- tune" retaining your stock maf, injectors, etc. At the very least you will need new turbo inlets, I used 034 motorsports ones that were pretty cheap considering their alternatives.

[Romania]

I was thinking of getting this. http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-Quattro-2.7T/Engine/Turbo/ES1892048/ RP, however I would imagine that since ECS is selling it, it must be a better product than the china made ones (?!).

[Romania]

or should I just stick http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-Quattro-2.7T/Engine/Turbo/ES259912/

[8520]

Re-read my post [:)]

[Romania]

Ok, you are saying go with THIS (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-Quattro-2.7T/Engine/Turbo/ES259912/) since they are borg warner. How much will it cost me the turbo inlets (price an labor) ?!

[8520]

Those are borg warner k03's which are an acceptable replacement, but if you are looking to upgrade, you need to buy either borg warner ko4's or frankenturbo ko4's. Both of these turbos can be ran at a "stage 3- tune".

[Paliincali91]

for labor it's $60 hr, an the guys has his own business, foreign cars are his specialty..The RS4 clutch (no fw) it's 475, turbos K04s i might get for about $800 (donno what brand)...

$60 an hour!? WTF? SHARE!!! LOL, I went to a place that specializes in foreign cars and they wanted something like $120 an hour or something ridiculous like that! [=(]

Looking at atleast 25+ hours at $120 an hour, hmm let's do that math.

25X$120=$3000
$3000+tax~$3300

I'd rather take an auto class and get the Bentley manual :p

[Romania]

So far I have found this:

Aluminium Intlet Pipe for $199 (https://vastperformance.com/index.php/products/audi/audi-c5-a6-all-road-2001-2004/2-7t/intake/vast-k04-aluminum-inlet-pipes-2-7t.html) from vast. Do I need any coating on it? What's the difference with or without?
**-
Turbos (pair)for $1799. (https://vastperformance.com/index.php/specials/frankenturbos-f4h-bt-2-7t-turbocharger-pair.html). It has an option of selecting a harware kit (not sure if I need that) for $70.
**

Is this sound right to you guys? Anything else I need to worry about if I chip the car, beside the RS4 clutch from ECS Tunning HERE (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-Quattro-2.7T/Drivetrain/Clutch/ES1327/) for $475 ?! ECS states it will hold up to 380 horespower. Will I be running more than that with frankenturbos and chip?!
**-

Or should I just go to the official website?! What exactly would I need from all the options from HERE?! (http://cart.frankenturbo.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F4BT)


Thank you, thank youuuu thaaaankkkkkk youuuuuuuuuuu :))

[Romania]

$60 an hour!? WTF? SHARE!!! LOL, I went to a place that specializes in foreign cars and they wanted something like $120 an hour or something ridiculous like that! [=(]

That's why I live in shitty OH and you don't :P

[Romania]

Anyone else, please?! [hail]

[Grayv3]

umm.... whomever is charging 20hrs is charging 5hrs too much. I quote 15hrs at the dealer. as for the oil leak, i'd look a little further up beacause the black rubber cam sealing cap in the head on both sides leaks all time making it look like the turbo is leaking.

[Romania]

I have seen here on the forum that some people say 15hrs. I work at a Ford dealership, and when I talked to them, they said 18-19 hrs, other places 20hrs, this guy said 19.5 hrs... I really donno what to say.
As far as the turbos go, I kinda made my mind up to replace them. I just don't want to mess anything up. I guess since I am really new to this stuff, I am more than just lost :). I would like to get a little bit more them OEM everything + chip, witch I understand is about 310-320 horsepower. I would like something in the 350+ horsepower. To my knowledge, I have to chip it, plus upgrade the turbos (right?!), and the clutch, which I am buying the RS4 clutch.
I guess bottom line is this:

I want 350+ horsepower
I (don't want) but I have to get a new clutch, with stock FW.
I will be getting new turbos, just don't know what to get.
I will chip it.
I don't want to get into changing injectors and/or any other parts on the engine.

What set-up do you advise?!

[Grayv3]

if your gonna race it i'd recommend something better than an rs4 clutch. the fw, i hate dual mass, but for 350hp the springs inside wont hold up overtime. from what peopple have been saying frankenturbos are a great option. i've installed rp's, absolute garbage & i hope those poor excuse for k04's disappear. i installed them on my friends (luvgroovsalad) s4 with no other upgrades & the crap we went through to install them made me more than just a little mad! then he heard all the stuff that was going wrong with them, got nervous cause he, like the rest of us doesn't have money to pull the motor multiple times & sold the car. get the frankens & have it tuned for what's in the car, get a stronger single mass set up & a proper tune.

[Romania]

I really do not have in mind racing. Just more of a pleasure driving an launching from time to time. That is all. Knowing that I have more HP than a stock+chip A6. Does this make sense? Will it be ok with the RS4 clutch kit and stock FW?

[Romania]

So far I have found this:

Aluminium Intlet Pipe for $199 (https://vastperformance.com/index.php/products/audi/audi-c5-a6-all-road-2001-2004/2-7t/intake/vast-k04-aluminum-inlet-pipes-2-7t.html) from vast. Do I need any coating on it? What's the difference with or without?
**-
Turbos (pair)for $1799. (https://vastperformance.com/index.php/specials/frankenturbos-f4h-bt-2-7t-turbocharger-pair.html). It has an option of selecting a harware kit (not sure if I need that) for $70.
**

Is this sound right to you guys? Anything else I need to worry about if I chip the car, beside the RS4 clutch from ECS Tunning HERE (http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-C5_A6-Quattro-2.7T/Drivetrain/Clutch/ES1327/) for $475 ?! ECS states it will hold up to 380 horespower. Will I be running more than that with frankenturbos and chip?!
**-

Or should I just go to the official website?! What exactly would I need from all the options from HERE?! (http://cart.frankenturbo.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F4BT)


Thank you, thank youuuu thaaaankkkkkk youuuuuuuuuuu :))


Anyone, pleeeeaaaaaaseeeeee since I am dieing without my beloved audi..?!

[8520]

^ Yes. Those turbos are the ones I will probably buy next time, and those inlets are the right ones for those turbos.

You mentioned launching. I have an rs4 clutch on my car and I will never launch it. An rs4 clutch is not the ideal clutch for launching, however, it is a great dd clutch that feels stock and holds the power just fine.

For what it's worth, I won't give vast any more of my money. They have gone downhill from what they used to be.

[Romania]

For what it's worth, I won't give vast any more of my money. They have gone downhill from what they used to be.

In that case should I purchase them directly from Franken Turbo's website? HERE (http://cart.frankenturbo.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=F4BT)? In that case, what options should I choose from the drop-down menu for a perfect fitment on my A6 2.7 6speed??

[Grayv3]

Call 034, I've felt with them tons of times & they are exreamly knowledgeable & will help you with anything. I'm on the east coast & the orders usually take 3-5 days. The occasional launch, I'd trash the dual mass, like I said earlier, I really don't think it will even last for that & if not then your paying to have your clutch done twice!

[Romania]

I am under the impression that I will be doing this car how I imagine I would when I got it. It will become from something "i will not mess with, it will be a DD" to "Let's just do it all once an for good" :)) haha
Thanks for the tip, I will sure give 'em a call an see how much money I can spend with them :))

If any of you question why I don't let my mechanic do all this for me, is because he just replaces what I tell him to/what's broke. He is totally against tuning/upgrading to more HP, plus he's not the type of mechanic that's up to date with all the upgrade process.

[Grayv3]

I'm not saying anything bad about your mechanic but you may want to find a shop that knows these cars better than there own wifes. They need to handled with kid gloves otherwise things go south real quick. 034 has a bunch of tuner shops they deal with, they should be able to recommend one in your area

[Romania]

RS4 K04 2.7T Turbo's OEM RS4 K04 2.7T Turbochargers. 1 year
warranty if installed by certified shop
2,299.95
===
VAST Aluminum Inl... VAST Aluminum Inlets, 2.7T, Fits: K04 /
Frankenturbo. Lifetime warranty
199.95
===
Turbo hardware ins... 2.7T Turbocharger install kit, includes all
gaskets for coolant, oil, exhaust manis,
downpipe-turbo, bolts to exhaust manis, studs
to turbos, air line crush gaskets. No warranty
69.95
===
VAST Stage 2 Clutc... VAST Stage 2 clutch kit with dual kevlar lined
disc, high force pressure plate, clutch to
flywheel bolts(6), clutch alignment tool,
throwout bearing. No warranty
449.95
===
2.7T resurfaced fly... 2.7T Resurfaced flywheel kit, includes pressed
in needle bearing, flywheel to crank bolts(8)
and precision balancing service. No warranty
164.95
===
Core Fee Refundable Core Fee for flywheel 300.00 300.00T
Piggie pipes C5 A6 ... C5 A6 6-speed Piggie pipes service. Customer
must send in downpipes for modification. If flex
joints are bad, cost is $80 installed, each.
345.00
===
Green coolant temp... Updated GREEN coolant temp
sender/O-ring/clip, No warranty
29.95
===
Bosch 710N diverte... Pair of Bosch 710N diverter valves. GENUINE
BOSCH. 2 year warranty
69.90
===
VAST 5 Bar FPR VAST 5 Bar Fuel Pressure Regulator. Lifetime
warranty
119.95
===
ECU Stage 3 - tune ECU Stage 3 - tune, use with 5 bar FPR and
Stock Injectors. Customer to send in ECU. No
warranty on ecu flash. Will revise if tune is at
fault
650.00
===
N75 Solenoid A N75 Solenoid for ecu tune reliability. No
warranty
120.00
===

The total will be around $5k. I also talked with my mechanic and he said all of this is duable, plus he did it before and had no problems. I do trust him, plus he has been working on german cars for over 30 years, plus he is not married :)))

I also called ECS Tuning for an invoice, and they never got back with me, so I am thinking I will go with vast, for now. I will also try to get and offer from 034.

From my information, with this set-up I will be running about 380-400 HP. I will also get a stab. link to hold everything in place.

Any ideas, any opinions, anything, is gladly appreciated.

Thank you

[redneck truck]

This is a messy thread. I'll charge you $40/hr for labor if you bring it to me, but it'll be my first time on a 2.7T. Don't do the timing belt/water pump job "just because you're in there" - there's no reason to pull the front end of the car off to do a clutch. As for pulling the transmission, it's a fairly easy job if you've got a good $80 trans jack and some basic hand tools, so if you've gotta pull the trans again down the road, then so be it. It's all very easy to work on.

[Romania]

Called ECS again, they gave me a quote of $6.5K

[redneck truck]

Why on earth did you have to replace head gaskets anyway?

[Romania]

Ups, i meant valve cover gaskers :D

[redneck truck]

Ahh, big difference. Buy a spare vehicle for $500, make some time, and learn to work on your vehicle. Buy tools used as needed.

[Romania]

Ahh, big difference. Buy a spare vehicle for $500, make some time, and learn to work on your vehicle. Buy tools used as needed.

Before all of this happen, I was going to attempt the TB job. Now, investing all this $, I am afraid to even change my tire. As far as my spare time goes, my work week is about 65-70 hrs. :(

[Mantis]

The VAST stage 2 clutch held for over 100 launches on my A6, then I upgraded to the stage 3, it is a very nice daily driver clutch

[Romania]

The VAST stage 2 clutch held for over 100 launches on my A6, then I upgraded to the stage 3, it is a very nice daily driver clutch

When I asked them about the set-up Stage 3 ECU, RS4 K04 turbos and the Stage 2 clutch, this is what I got from them:

"Hi,

this is a 380-400chp setup.

Stage 2 clutch has nothing to do with what stage your turbos are. You will have a Stage 3- (Stage 3MINUS) tune that will work with your hardware configuration. No need to worry..

It's a pretty straightforward setup I pioneered back in '03. The stage 2 clutch can hold up to 550chp reliably. The RS4 K04's make 500chp when pushed hard. Overall, it's been the best seller in the past 9 years of installing them and the next best thing is the RS6 K04, which makes over 10% more power. "

That kinda made me feel OK about the clutch, however, now I am starting to think again... So you are saying I should get the Stage 3 clutch?!

[Romania]

Anyone, anymore?!

[NuGGet_PuFFer]

i would check out europaparts.com they're located in jersey or purems.com

[Mantis]

you can't put a price on peace of mind......... Well actually you can, it is the difference between stage 2 and stage 3 clutch

[Romania]

So today I placed the order for the following:
****

RS4 K04 2.7T Turbo's OEM RS4 K04 2.7T Turbochargers. 1 year
warranty if installed by certified shop and
software matches hardware.
2,299.95
===
VAST Aluminum Inl... VAST Aluminum Inlets, 2.7T, Fits: K04 /
Frankenturbo. Lifetime warranty
199.95
===
Turbo hardware ins... 2.7T Turbocharger install kit, includes all
gaskets for coolant, oil, exhaust manis,
downpipe-turbo, bolts to exhaust manis, studs
to turbos, air line crush gaskets. No warranty
69.95
===
VAST Stage 3 Clutc... VAST Stage 3 clutch kit with organic on
pressure plate side and cera-metallic lined disc
on flywheel side, high force pressure plate,
clutch to flywheel bolts(6), clutch alignment
tool, throwout bearing
549.95
===
2.7T resurfaced fly... 2.7T Resurfaced flywheel kit, includes pressed
in needle bearing, flywheel to crank bolts(8)
and precision balancing service. No warranty
164.95
===
Piggie pipes C5 A6 ... C5 A6 6-speed Piggie pipes service. Customer
must send in downpipes for modification. If flex
joints are bad, cost is $80 installed, each.
345.00
===
AWE DTS AWE Drivetrain Stabilizer bar kit, C5
A6/Allroad. Includes upgraded poly mount. 3
year warranty
236.55
===
Green coolant temp... Updated GREEN coolant temp
sender/O-ring/clip, No warranty
29.95
===
Bosch 710N diverte... Pair of Bosch 710N diverter valves. GENUINE
BOSCH. 2 year warranty
69.90
===
VAST 5 Bar FPR VAST 5 Bar Fuel Pressure Regulator. Lifetime
warranty
119.95
===
ECU Stage 3 - tune ECU Stage 3 - tune, use with 5 bar FPR and
Stock Injectors. Customer to send in ECU. No
warranty on ecu flash. Will revise if tune is at
fault
650.00
===
N75 Solenoid A N75 Solenoid for ecu tune reliability. No
warranty
120.00
===
Bosch sidefire spark... Bosch sidefire sparkplug, for use with all turbo
application.
77.70
===
60K Service kit (2.7T) Included is: Timing belt tensioner damper,
Timing belt tensioner roller, Timing belt idler,
Timing belt lever, Timing belt, Accessory belt,
Upgraded metal blade water pump/gasket,
Thermostat/O-ring. 2 year warranty.
314.95
===
NOTE regular daily driver. Setup turbos and tune for
===
Stern Pro Engine M... STERN Engine Motor Mounts, pair (soft)This kit
is designed as an upgrade to the soft factory
motor mounts which come standard with these
vehicles. Low and medium durometer
polyurethane is used to help keep excessive
vibrations to a minimum while still providing
excellent strength and damping characteristics.
These mounts maintain full isolation between
the engine and chassis without the transfer of
vibrations into the cabin. Features:Factory
fitmentHeavy duty durable casingFully
isolatedCompletely serviceable
209.95
===

Total - $6,061.00
-$650 refundable fee for Core charges on piggie pipes + 2.7T Resurfaced flywheel kit.
-Free shipping
-No sales Tax
===
NOTE regular daily driver. Setup turbos and tune for slightly more aggressive.

****
*What do you guys think? Smart/bad decision?!

Hope this will bring me only joy and lots of great driving experience! :)

[redneck truck]

Wow, it sounds like you've covered everything! My only qualms would be with the oem flywheel. I love my lightweight aluminum one.

[Romania]

I really hope the OEM one will hold up. I am really blowing all my savings on this. The lightweight will put me over the top....I know it sounds stupid, since I am doing the clutch job now, but it is what it is...

[redneck truck]

Buy the Fidanza for like $340 and sell the OEM as is for $200. Problem solved, and then you won't have a crappy OEM dual-mass flywheel (resurfaced - how do they do that?!) break apart and destroy your gearbox.

[NuGGet_PuFFer]

Buy the Fidanza for like $340 and sell the OEM as is for $200. Problem solved, and then you won't have a crappy OEM dual-mass flywheel (resurfaced - how do they do that?!) break apart and destroy your gearbox.

i agree, wait until u can spend the money on the fidanza, people really don't realize how much of a difference a lightweight flywheel and/or driveshaft can make...

[redneck truck]

I wouldn't do it for the improvement in acceleration, because I'd be willing to bet it's negligible, but the faster revs and the increased reliability are key here.

[Scotty@Advanced]

Buy the Fidanza for like $340 and sell the OEM as is for $200. Problem solved, and then you won't have a crappy OEM dual-mass flywheel (resurfaced - how do they do that?!) break apart and destroy your gearbox.

I've seen more aluminum flywheels fail than Dual Mass flywheel, in fact I've never seen a DMF fail catastrophically.

[Romania]

I see more and more people talking about boost gauges. Would I need to get one too? I have seen them before, however they look like a foreign language to me.