Help! Rear sway bar install...

[snoroller]

So I went to work on installing Hotchkis H-Sports yesterday. Tackled the rear first. Put the car up on ramps. No problem removing the stock bolts and then the bar itself after lowering the exhaust.


I go to install the new rear bar and manage to get it in place. U brackets line up no problem. But the end links. F^%&^^$!!! It was tough enough to get the stock ends loose, but the Hotchkis bar is now thicker and shaped a little differently, giving even less room to get a couple of wrenches in there and I can't seem to tighten them back up.


I'm at a loss guys. Has anyone installed this on their own? I'm almost ready to just take it to a shop but I really hate to do that.


Thank you! [headbang]
Tim

[mikejsully]

It is really tight.... It took a while with many many short strokes of the ratchet to get it all snugged up. Real PITA!

Use a box wrench on the tight side and the ratchet on the other. You should have 6-8 inches of motion for the ratchet. Good luck man! this is one I really wish I had a lift for!

Mike

Hopefully someone else has a better Idea, but that is how it worked out for me.

[wwhan]

Yeah, those rear sway bar end link bolts/nuts are a rear pain. Not much room to swing a wrench. I ended up using a 16mm ratcheting box wrench on one end & a regular 16mm box end on the other end.

[jeffc31337]

I dont' have any advice but good luck and i'm interested in hearing your impressions as I'm getting a set installed soon myself. Are you planning on setting the front to the softer or stiffer setting? I'm planning on the softer front myself to minimize understeer.

[mikejsully]

I dont' have any advice but good luck and i'm interested in hearing your impressions as I'm getting a set installed soon myself. Are you planning on setting the front to the softer or stiffer setting? I'm planning on the softer front myself to minimize understeer.

I hope you enjoy the setup!

My GMG's are set to full stiff front and back, there is no hint of understeer and the car feels very balanced. Let me know how the soft front works out, I have no desire to get down and adjust unless I really have to.

Mike

[snoroller]

Hey, thanks for the advice. My latest thought is to get it off the ramps, use jack stands, take the wheel off then re-compress the suspension via the a-arm to ride height with a jack. This may give some more room to access that Fing bolt. Will try again this weekend and let you all know...


Re the front setting, I'm putting it at the softest (outer bolts), as you say, to minimize understeer. I could not really ever find a definitive answer on which to use to get a neutral setup, but compared to the rears, it would not be too rough to change the fronts to the other setting if needed.

[snoroller]

It is really tight.... It took a while with many many short strokes of the ratchet to get it all snugged up. Real PITA!

Use a box wrench on the tight side and the ratchet on the other. You should have 6-8 inches of motion for the ratchet. Good luck man! this is one I really wish I had a lift for!

Mike

Hopefully someone else has a better Idea, but that is how it worked out for me.


Mike, you say 6-8" of ratchet room. Where the heck did you find this? I'm looking at maybe one click of the gearwrench is all... Did you approach it from the rear side of the sway, or did you find another place to get access for the wrenches? I'm thinking that I just have not found the right way to access those bolts to solve the puzzle...

[mikejsully]

Mike, you say 6-8" of ratchet room. Where the heck did you find this? I'm looking at maybe one click of the gearwrench is all... Did you approach it from the rear side of the sway, or did you find another place to get access for the wrenches? I'm thinking that I just have not found the right way to access those bolts to solve the puzzle...

from under the car with my head pointed towards the front I believe the ratchet was on the inside and the box wrench on the outside (wheel side). It has been a while and may have this backwards... sorry! I used a deep socket to help clear the bar (small extension would work too) you will have to play around with the actual angle as to what works for you, but I had maybe 3-4 clicks on the ratchet. once you get it started it goes relatively quickly.

Hope that helps. I can get under the car tonight and report back on the exact area I used.. I remember the spare tire/fuel tank being a limiting factor in my movement.

Mike

[Vogz]

Hey, thanks for the advice. My latest thought is to get it off the ramps, use jack stands, take the wheel off then re-compress the suspension via the a-arm to ride height with a jack. This may give some more room to access that Fing bolt. Will try again this weekend and let you all know...


Re the front setting, I'm putting it at the softest (outer bolts), as you say, to minimize understeer. I could not really ever find a definitive answer on which to use to get a neutral setup, but compared to the rears, it would not be too rough to change the fronts to the other setting if needed.

YES, unload that suspension. Suspension work is meant to be done with the weight of the car off the suspension. It will also give you a lot more room to work.

[Deckdout2]

YES, unload that suspension. Suspension work is meant to be done with the weight of the car off the suspension. It will also give you a lot more room to work.

Is he actually unloading the suspension when he "jacks the a-arm back to ride height"? He's putting load back on it, is he not?

[mikejsully]

YES, unload that suspension. Suspension work is meant to be done with the weight of the car off the suspension. It will also give you a lot more room to work.

I actually had more room to work with the ramps than with the suspension unloaded. Not sure it would be possible with out a lift if the suspension is unloaded due to the clearance.

Mike

[Vogz]

I actually had more room to work with the ramps than with the suspension unloaded. Not sure it would be possible with out a lift if the suspension is unloaded due to the clearance.

Mike

Wat? You should have the same amount of room to work on jackstands as on a lift, you just can't stand up under the car.

[mikejsully]

Wat? You should have the same amount of room to work on jackstands as on a lift, you just can't stand up under the car.

Space under the car was not an issue, it is the clearance of the sway bar links and suspension components. With the rear unloaded there was no clearance to get a wrench in to tighten up the bolts. On a lift you may be able to explore different angles of approach... Maybe...

Mike

[snoroller]

YES, unload that suspension. Suspension work is meant to be done with the weight of the car off the suspension. It will also give you a lot more room to work.

??? Everything I've read, including the instructions says you need the suspension loaded!

[Deckdout2]

??? Everything I've read, including the instructions says you need the suspension loaded!

That's what I've read as well before. Does this apply to the front as well if you remember reading that?

[mikejsully]

??? Everything I've read, including the instructions says you need the suspension loaded!


That's what I've read as well before. Does this apply to the front as well if you remember reading that?

That makes sense... I did not receive any instructions with mine, but I could not see how it is possible front or rear with the suspension unloaded.

[shookatash]

subscribing as i'd like to see the end result and tips for my future install.

[Vogz]

Space under the car was not an issue, it is the clearance of the sway bar links and suspension components. With the rear unloaded there was no clearance to get a wrench in to tighten up the bolts. On a lift you may be able to explore different angles of approach... Maybe...

Mike

With the suspension unloaded you can manipulate it with a jack through a large range of it's motion (including fully loaded) to obtain the best angle to access the sway bar links.

[mikejsully]

With the suspension unloaded you can manipulate it with a jack through a large range of it's motion (including fully loaded) to obtain the best angle to access the sway bar links.

True, but I would rather have it on a lift to do that... As much as trust my jack stands, the ramps did me just fine. That would also take some time as you would have to jack up both sides to the same "load" in order to install the bar. But, yes I am sure you could find a better angle to get at the bolts.

Mike

[wwhan]

The first time installing this H-sport sway bar, I did it under the car, with the wheels sitting on ramps. It was a royal pain to to tighten up
the end links, with a ratchet & open/box wrench.

The second time, when adding the coilovers, I used a pair of jack stands, with the wheels placed down, under the car, on each side as sacrificial safety catches. I just tightened, till it it got close to the needing the final torque applied to the end link bolt/nut, then used a floor jack to raise the lower arm to fully loaded position & did final torque on the end link, then went to the other side and did the same.

During most of the tightening of the end link, it does not need to be loaded, only on the final full torque. The same issue exists for tightening the lower bolt on the rear shock, only needs normal position on final torque (the last turn).

With the wheels off, I placed one wrench vertical, on the end link, in behind the shock, the other swings around to the front of the car, behind the rear spring. This seems to give the largest range of motion.

[snoroller]

Kick ass. Ok, I'm motivated to try this again...tomorrow. :) Makes a lot of sense about the final torque & loading. Will have to try the ratchet from the front again. Thanks all for the input!!
Tim

[S4 wyoming]

snoroller,sent you a pm. good luck.S4 Wyoming

[snoroller]

[:D][:D][:D]


FFFFFFffffff Yeah! Got the rear sway on! [wrench]

Once you get the correct setup, its easy peasy. After I figured out the left bolt, it took me maybe 5 minutes to start/complete the right side hahaha.

So after getting feedback from everyone, that really helped to find the solution for me. Here's what I did:

1)Drive the rear up on Rhino ramps.
2)Loosen the exhaust. Both the very rear attachment of both sides, as well as a couple of the supports in the middle of the car. I also loosened the rear bumper (3 star bolts) so the exhaust could lower easier.
3)Take the stock rear sway off. I did this the hard way so I won't describe how I Fd that up. :)
4)Stick the new h-sport in.
5)KEY POINT: attach the bushings, then snugly (bot not tighten yet) the 4 triple-square bolts ENSURING THE SWAY is pushed upward as much as possible, so its against the centering U washer. This helps to give an extra bit of room to get your hands/wrenches into the inner end link bolt.
6)Start on an end link bolt. For me here's what worked really well:
a)I used a 16mm stubby locking adjustable gear wrench, and a 16mm standard size locking adjustable gear wrench.
b)With that extra room, I was able to get the stubby wrench onto that inner end link nut, pointing basically upward.
c)Now I used the other gear wrench, tilted at 2 clicks to tighten the bolt. So the stubby is on the nut and when you go to tighten the bolt, the
stubby turns a bit then locks in, sandwiched on surrounding a part, and now you don't have to hold that MF. THIS WAS THE OTHER KEY for me.
d)Now there's room for a couple clicks (maybe 15 degrees total) for wratcheting that bolt.
e)Once everything is tight, that stubby will still be lodged in there, so I took a flathead, stuck it on the end of the wrench, then smacked it with
a mallet to get it loose
f)Thats it! Once I figured this out, literally the other bolt took like 5 mins total.
7)Finish tightening the bushings. Can't seem to find any torque settings, so they are 'tight', as are the end links. Don't forget to loctite the end bolts.
7a)Drink a cold beer.
8)Reinstall the exhaust, then tackle the front, which should be a piece of cake.


Well I hope this helps anyone looking to do this in the future. Wish I would have taken a couple pictures but was too excited once I figured it out! Thanks again for everyone's input. Now to test the results. I'll do a write-up of any improvements in handling...

See you,
-Tim

[wwhan]

Congratulations. For reference here are some torque values for the suspension pieces,
from two different sources (first column - S , second column - A)

B8 A4/S4 TORQUE VALUES Suspension and Wheels

.................................................. .....Source "S"............... Source "A"

Front damper to upper mount ............ 37 ft-lbs ..........,.... (37 ft-lbs) 50NM

Front damper upper mount to body .....xx ft-lbs ..........,.... (30 ft-lbs) 40NM + 90deg

Front damper fork pinch bolt .......... .. 30 ft-lbs + 180º ......(30 ft-lbs) 40NM + 180deg

Front damper fork to lower link .......... 66 ft-lbs ............... (66 ft-lbs) 90NM + 90deg

Upper link pinch bolt ........................ 29 ft-lbs ................ (30 ft-lbs) 40NM

Rear damper to upper mount ............ 26 ft-lbs ................. (26 ft-lbs) 35NM

Rear damper upper mount to body .... 37 ft-lbs ................. (37 ft-lbs) 50NM + 45deg

Rear damper to upright .................. 111 ft-lbs ................. (111 ft-lbs) 150NM + 180deg

Rear sway bar link to sway bar ......... 30 ft-lbs

Rear sway bar mounts .................... 19 ft-lbs

Wheel lug bolts .............................. 90 ft-lbs

[jeffc31337]

Glad you got it installed! Bump for your review on your impressions of how the setup with the softer front changed the balance of the car!