HEEEELP!

[DRAKLORE]

Some may know me some may not, but I need help! I have been experiencing some issues for a few months now and they have ranged from codes p0172 (too rich) p0171 (too lean) and now the one I thought I solved has come back.
1. I have fuel in my catch can, lots it fills fairly fast...
2.fuel up around oil fill
3. Loud loud popping on deceleration!!!
4. Chirping sound while boosting

I solved my lean issue last week and all has been well. I am currently revo stg2+, I have a FMIC, the revision d dv, and BSR cai, 3" turboback exhaust, and underdrive pulley. I just swapped in some Bosch oem plugs but my problem still persists...
Somebody help me before I turn this thing into a lawn ornament!

[DRAKLORE]

I hold boost fine, and the car doesn't missfire at all

[DRAKLORE]

WTF my oil pressure light just came on then went off...

[Kamil P]

Checked you compression? To me sounds like you have a serious engine problem.

[martin0079]

you have the kmd pump did you install it on a new pump or the one that you pulled out of your car seals maybe bad

[DRAKLORE]

you have the kmd pump did you install it on a new pump or the one that you pulled out of your car seals maybe bad

You right on track with what I am thinking, I just ordered new seals for the pump at the dealership should be here tommorow, was actually on the way to the stealership when the oil light flashed on. I think maybe I have a electrical issue as far as that's concerned because this morning my washer pumps kicked on and wouldn't shut off for a minute or so then it happened again driving down the road... FML!! This all started happening when I pulled the hpfp so that is prob the issue. He only showed one seal but from my memory I remember one on the follower and one on the pump... Got part # 06e-127-248

[your daddy]

change your oil asap. you washed your oil out with fuel, maybe scored the block... oil light on because you diluted the shit out of your oil.. sounds like your file is not matched for the hardware, or its junk. as well as faulty fuel setup..

[DRAKLORE]

change your oil asap. you washed your oil out with fuel, maybe scored the block... oil light on because you diluted the shit out of your oil.. sounds like your file is not matched for the hardware, or its junk. as well as faulty fuel setup..

I will change my oil and get back to you, have other people had problems with revos stg2+ file??

[DRAKLORE]

Changed the oil, was almost half a quart too full, and thin as fuel. :-( runs slightly better but still throws p0172 and popps on deceleration, stalls on starts! I'm really hoping this seal solves my issues but I doubt it will.

[bengtc]

Get a new PCV

[DRAKLORE]

Right now I'm looking at eurojets billet valve cover, or maybe the bsh catch can setup... Not sure but I gotta do something soon, trying to find a used cover with no luck so far

[Leo14]

I don't think the tune is your problem, sounds oil related to me. I'm probably wrong but, piston rings??? Just trying to spark some more ideas

[DRAKLORE]

I should really get my compression checked, if i do need rings then I will probably be putting in rods & pistons as well, besides that I'm witching to unitronics gt3071r tune as soon as it's ready then putting on some new hardware

[your daddy]

I don't think the tune is your problem, sounds oil related to me. I'm probably wrong but, piston rings??? Just trying to spark some more ideas
i would say you probably are wrong... oil related?? really? the fuel is washing the oil out. the tune would make it pop, bang, run rich as hell and make it wash down... if the injectors are matched to the file, i would say start with the revo. in all of MY personal experience with their company (i was even in their booth) they are great for stage 1 stuff. as soon as bigger turbos, and more need to perfect the file comes in, find another company. (again, this is my opinion, going back to 1.8t days. had stage 3 in my car for a long time. i wont get into the story of how it went down, but i went with eurodyne back in 09, and never looked back..)
-so check to see if youre hardware is correct, and functioning properly, if it is, you know where to go...

[DRAKLORE]

Here's an overview of the main issues,
oil diluted with fuel.
Stall at start
Popping on deceleration
P0172 rich bank 1
Fuel around oil fill cap and quite a bit in catch can

There is no more chirping, no more lean codes, I'm leaning towards these options being my problem
1. PCV system not working correctly
2. Leaking hpfp seals into cylinder head
3. Piston rings bad :-(

[DRAKLORE]

Yes my current hardware is good for the stage2+ file, stock injectors, kmd hpfp. I haven't messed with the settings but I completely agree with you on my experience with REVO, I used to be a huge fan until I had to deal with them first hand and got told "your sol" talking with tuners who have switched from REVO to other companies explains Alot as well. Sometimes power isn't everything when it comes to tunes, just wish I went Unitronic first and didn't have to switch companies now that I'm going big turbo

[your daddy]

get the fuel pump taken care of first. is UNI that much better? ( i am not as in the loop with the FSI flash for mods vs 1.8t)

[thenofjboy]

^ X2 on doing the fuel pump first.

how is your catch can plumbing routed btw?

If you do a dry compression test, you can also try to do a wet test on the cyl(s) that are giving a low PSI. If your numbers go numbers go up significantly, IIRC this means your rings are bad. By doing the wet test, you are putting a cap full of oil in the cylinders that are giving you a low PSI to help seal up the rings. You have to do the wet compression test again to see if the numbers went up. I did this on my B5.

IF you really think it’s your rings, you need to get a cylinder leak down test done. This test is more precise than a compression test. This is an easy test for any shop to do & you can do it as well but you obviously need the equipment.

“There are three major leak paths where cylinder pressure can escape: past the rings, the intake valve, or the exhaust valve. We'll ignore the head gasket for now” http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0406_cylinder_leakdown_tester/index.html#13062681336391&DISPLAYINTERSTITIAL_15

[DRAKLORE]

I Am going to Unitronic because they are providing me with the tune for my gr3071r, though I want to solve the issues at hand before going ahead with that so not to stem any more major issues. I previously worked as a technician at a ford dealership so I have a good knowledge on how to perform any engine tests. Though I'm lacking the equipment and time, as I'm pcsing to another afb this week lol I will try to do the fuel pump seal tonight and I'll fill you guys in on the details.

[rnp614]

I told you in another thread a while ago that your pump seals are bad. That's most definitely the problem.

[DRAKLORE]

Put in the new seal and it didnt do sho!! Ordering the 42dd catch can I think now. Lots of black smoke... Rough idle/stalling anyone experience issues with rings? I'm still getting the occasional oil pressure warning lamp

[DRAKLORE]

Would a bad turbo seal leaking oil into intake cause this?

[your daddy]

Would a bad turbo seal leaking oil into intake cause this?

no, you have an issue with fuel getting into the oil. diluting the oil, lowering pressure... seen it. but some 2.0ts had ring issues..

[DRAKLORE]

Sounds lik I should update my catch can/PCV setup and try again. Has anyone removed there rear PCV and had issues? I took mine out for a day a Monty back but it seemed to make the car less responsive? I won't be running it when I go bt, but if my rings or compression is bad then I'm also putting in IE rods :-)

[your daddy]

i would see why there is soo much fuel in the oil. couple guess' one being the HPFP leaking internally. 2 the tune is running crazy rich. (make sure maf/o2 functioning ok)

[DRAKLORE]

I'm gonna be pissed if it's the kmd internals.... How do I check maf w/o vagcom?

[martin0079]

There is just no way that the engine gets enough fuel in it to flood the oil pan with fuel from bad rings it would take a long time to see any fuel in the oil from bad rings normally exhaust gasses can be seen coming out of the oil fill cap with bad rings. Compression checkers are not that expensive pick one up or you can borrow one maybe from advanced auto, but I highly doubt the rings are bad I will even check my comp for you so you know what the standard for the car is. Did you change your oil after the seal change and you changed both the shaft seal and the oring that seals off the piston right. Bluish smoke is oil burn black is carbon burn when changed your injectors what was the condition of the valves?

[your daddy]

i am no rocket scientist, but if fuel is being dumped in, and unable to be burned, it will seap past the rings and dilute the oil breaking it down, and losing lubrication for a lot of components including ring to wall clearance.

[martin0079]

i am no rocket scientist, but if fuel is being dumped in, and unable to be burned, it will seap past the rings and dilute the oil breaking it down, and losing lubrication for a lot of components including ring to wall clearance.

I agree but if that was the case the engine would not be able to run at all and would constantly stall within minutes of starting I am saying that the amount of gas that goes in the injectors to the engine if it is burning enough in the engine to cause a little power loss then it is not enough to seap past the rings and in fact due to the nature of the engine direct injection the fuel does not have the time to deatomize and pool like it would in the regular engine unless the cylinder is not firing. I am a nuclear scientist/engineer them rocket guys got nothing on us.

[viziers]

However IF it's the HPFP leaking into the oil which is quite possible (remember the HPFP is mounted to the cam and easy to dup fuel from the ppump piston) to leak that much fuel as the ECU is trying to compensate for the lack of fuel.



vizi

[your daddy]

However IF it's the HPFP leaking into the oil which is quite possible (remember the HPFP is mounted to the cam and easy to dup fuel from the ppump piston) to leak that much fuel as the ECU is trying to compensate for the lack of fuel.



vizi

THANK YOU. [wrench]

[DRAKLORE]

I only replaced the seal that seals the hpfp to the head. Not an internal one, it could very well be the internal hpfp seal leaking past the shaft as my problems started occurring shortly after installing the hpfp, lately I've done quite a bit of work to the car which is why I cannot pinpoint the exact time it started acting up. I'm not sure the part number for the seal so I will do some digging, I got a pm telling me to raise the location of my catch can because it was mid block, I raised it and all was well until we got into town, then shit hit the fan and the car barely ran, I lowered the can back down and all is back to the normal black smoke, and popping on decel. I ordered the 42dd catch can but I suspect my problem is the kmd internals or hpfp internal seals, I also noticed my follower showed sign of scoring and wear, something I checked 1200 miles ago when I put the pump in and it was practically new...

[martin0079]

However IF it's the HPFP leaking into the oil which is quite possible (remember the HPFP is mounted to the cam and easy to dup fuel from the ppump piston) to leak that much fuel as the ECU is trying to compensate for the lack of fuel.



vizi

agreed but still does not have the enough time to deatomize and pool

[martin0079]

I only replaced the seal that seals the hpfp to the head. Not an internal one, it could very well be the internal hpfp seal leaking past the shaft as my problems started occurring shortly after installing the hpfp, lately I've done quite a bit of work to the car which is why I cannot pinpoint the exact time it started acting up. I'm not sure the part number for the seal so I will do some digging, I got a pm telling me to raise the location of my catch can because it was mid block, I raised it and all was well until we got into town, then shit hit the fan and the car barely ran, I lowered the can back down and all is back to the normal black smoke, and popping on decel. I ordered the 42dd catch can but I suspect my problem is the kmd internals or hpfp internal seals, I also noticed my follower showed sign of scoring and wear, something I checked 1200 miles ago when I put the pump in and it was practically new...

O why didnt you say so that oring is oil to keep the oil in the engine not fuel in the pump the interal oring and shaft seal are the problem they keep the fuel in the pump and not the engine that is what needs to be replaced

[your daddy]

agreed but still does not have the enough time to deatomize and pool

you understand what the rest of us are even talkin about???

[viziers]

agreed but still does not have the enough time to deatomize and pool

There is no atomization on the HPFP, the only atomization that occurs is IN the cylinder where the injector atomises the fuel as it enters the cylinder.


vizi

[DRAKLORE]

I found a link explaining the root cause of my problems. :-(
http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,23217.0.html
Sadly I think things have gotten way past the point of just replacing my pump/seals and I will be looking at fixing something else, possibly major engine related :-( not only does my low oil pressure light come on quite frequently even though I just changed my oil, I see a bit of white smoke exiting the oil dipstick and some out the exhaust... Not sure how bad yet but I think this will keep me from taking my vacation up to Maine next week :-/ if anyone knows of a way to get just the internal seals please let me know, I will check my compression tomorrow and give the grim news

[martin0079]

There is no atomization on the HPFP, the only atomization that occurs is IN the cylinder where the injector atomises the fuel as it enters the cylinder.


vizi


Original words from you daddy couple posts up fuel is being dumped in and unable to be burned it will seep past the rings the only thing I have been trying to get at is the fuel entering the engine and the amount of time it has in the engine does not have the time to deatomize because we are in the cylinder now not the pump and it does not have enough time to pool and give noticeable levels of gas in the engine. I never said that the fuel atomizes in the pump. So to anwser you your daddy clearly I know what I am talking about but clearly you forgot what you originally said. The entire time i have been trying to get at that bad piston rings will not cause this much gas in the engine oil.

[DRAKLORE]

Sorry to interrupt any thing, Can anybody help me source the seals? What does everyone else do? Get a new pump...

[your daddy]

i dont know, i would just get a reliable apr pump, and dont drive your car till this is fixed. your oil is diluted, and is not protecting the bearings/block

[martin0079]

Thee internal seals only place to find is at the dealer

[martin0079]

Try calling apr and seeing if they will sell you some

[martin0079]

I can not find the seals or anything in any break downs no pn

[DRAKLORE]

Got the part # for the pump from audi then called my local Vw dealer and got the pump there, 325$ for the whole thing, I will be swapping in the kmd internals and being extraordinarily careful. Ive got 5quarts of oil and a compression tester. Not sure what the compression should be at... But iwill do a dry and wet for each cylinder and post numbers. I just hope there consistent. I also have 42dd bullet proof catch can coming, and podi is shipping me there dual pod and the vei AFR gauge with senders(25%off at sowo) Anyone got the compression number?

[viziers]

Original words from you daddy couple posts up fuel is being dumped in and unable to be burned it will seep past the rings the only thing I have been trying to get at is the fuel entering the engine and the amount of time it has in the engine does not have the time to deatomize because we are in the cylinder now not the pump and it does not have enough time to pool and give noticeable levels of gas in the engine. I never said that the fuel atomizes in the pump. So to anwser you your daddy clearly I know what I am talking about but clearly you forgot what you originally said. The entire time i have been trying to get at that bad piston rings will not cause this much gas in the engine oil.

You are STILL not comprehending how the HPFP works. The HPFP piston rides on the cam thats inside of your head! The gas is leaking on the piston seals dumping fuel right into the motor oil it has nothing to do with the fuel in the cylinders!!!!!!



P.S. Draklore you could of got the HPFP from genuinevwaudi.com for $171 and those seals you are looking for are not for sale to general public AFAIK...



vizi

[your daddy]

if you dont think fuel can fall out of suspension, you're wrong. many things can cause it. few possibilities are junk tune, wrong injectors for file, bad a/f monitoring,etc... and bad rings wont cause that. i dont know where you saw that. but this will cause bad rings, washing down the cylinders with fuel, and not oil... if you cant comprehend this, please go figure out how to open the fuse box door... (search is fun)

[viziers]

if you dont think fuel can fall out of suspension, you're wrong. many things can cause it. few possibilities are junk tune, wrong injectors for file, bad a/f monitoring,etc... and bad rings wont cause that. i dont know where you saw that. but this will cause bad rings, washing down the cylinders with fuel, and not oil... if you cant comprehend this, please go figure out how to open the fuse box door... (search is fun)


Ahhhhhmen to that brotha!





vizi

[DRAKLORE]

Soooo while the children were bickering I did a compression test....... Aaaannnnddd though im not sure if it is good, I got a consistent 170psi across the board. The first time around I was a bit rusty on how to perform said test and got some erratic results, but after eating some lunch and calming myself I was able to get 170psi each cylinder.

[DRAKLORE]

Yay Vw spec is 161-201psi dry!!!! No rings for me

[martin0079]

You are STILL not comprehending how the HPFP works. The HPFP piston rides on the cam thats inside of your head! The gas is leaking on the piston seals dumping fuel right into the motor oil it has nothing to do with the fuel in the cylinders!!!!!!



P.S. Draklore you could of got the HPFP from genuinevwaudi.com for $171 and those seals you are looking for are not for sale to general public AFAIK...



vizi

Wow dude you seriously did not read any of this thread did you this entire time I have said that it was the seals on the fuel pump. Many people said it was the piston rings All I was trying to do was point out that it wasnt the piston rings because the fuel spends milliseconds in the engine and does not have enough time to deatomize and seap down the rings next time read what is written and actually understand it before speaking. I know how the hpfp works I know it rides on the cam and I know the seals are bad leaking fuel into the head and down into the oil. Yes your daddy I said it before fuel can fall out of suspension but spends very little time in this certain type of engine (direct injection). This engine is based on the Idea that gas is injected directly into the engine milliseconds before the spark plug fires It does not mix with the air in the intake manifold and the enter the engine. You are the one that I have been trying to answer your daddy that said the fuel can seep past the rings into the oil and I have been saying that the fuel in the cylinders is not the cause of the fuel in the oil. Bite me on the fuse door thing I was pulling pretty dam hard and wanted to check before I broke the dam door in half if that is all you have to spite me on who cares.

Darklore I got 175psi on my cylinders

[DRAKLORE]

Thank you Martin lol I am wrapping up the install on the hpfp, I couldn't visibly tell any of the components were bad, though when installing the kmd shaft into the new pump seal after lubing quite a bit it was not going in, I then tried to put the kmd shaft back into the old seal and it went in loose as shite! I went back to the new seal again and with more force than I wanted pushed the shaft through, it was a noticeably tighter seal on the shaft. The old pump showed signs of scoring internally, also my follower shows a lot of wear considering only 2kmiles ago it looked new, I am going to order one from kmd, the dealer said he had none in stock.. Go figure? I will complete the install and put in the new oil, but I don't have high hopes until the catch can gets here from 42dd. Thanks for the support through this one azers!

[DRAKLORE]

First good sign is that for once it didn't stall on start! Second sign is the normal idle [:-)] I let it sit for about ten minutes idling then rev it it up once and let off, it returned to idle without stumbling, something it wouldn't do before, I am getting cleaned up and going for a drive in a sec, but so far so good, mostly I hope other audizine members experiencing issues similar to this, can look back and learn from this. I gather that this was about as bad as this issue has gotten for any member, but with VAG com this can be caught early on by logging your rail pressure iirc, also it doesn't hurt to sniff the dipstick or check your oil every change for traces of fuel.

[martin0079]

Yea I am just going to bite the bullet and spend the grand on the apr pump dont want to got through this Ill sell you my pump if you like I bought it brand new and installed the internals you can use it as a spare have a kmd follower never installed to Ill over night it to you if you would like it will be faster than trying to get it from kmd

[DRAKLORE]

Martin pm me with your price and details :-) thank you

[DRAKLORE]

So relieving, drives perfect. I love this forum!

[thenofjboy]

congrats - I know its a good feeling

[DRAKLORE]

Little update, still good! All issues gone, I would advise that if anyone plans on going stg2+ that they either go apr, or put the internals in a new pump.... IMHO

[viziers]

Little update, still good! All issues gone, I would advise that if anyone plans on going stg2+ that they either go apr, or put the internals in a new pump.... IMHO



I say just get the APR pump and never worry (just wait for the sale as there is always one going on)......




vizi