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View Full Version : B5 A4 1.8 T timing belt kits... decisions, decisions...



itsTURBOTIME.
03-16-2011, 05:58 AM
I am about to purchase a kit for my a4 b5 1.8 T and I have been looking at different retailer's sites, but don't know who to go with. I want to know what kit you guys recommend. [confused]

My next question is how do I know which kit I need to get based off of my VIN which is: WAUAC68D01A136529


Here are the websites with the kits im looking at:

http://www.blauparts.com/audi/audi_t...belt_kit.shtml

http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=2847

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-...g_Belt/ES1342/

http://www.034motorsport.com/schedul...2883_2884.html

Also I keep hearing about a kevlar timing belt from 034... is that better than going with a OEM belt?


Thanks,

Nick [wrench]

vtraudt
03-16-2011, 06:11 AM
I bought the complete kit from blauparts. VERY complete. I did not go with their tool rental, managed to do without (it was my first TB job); probably would have been a bit easier. Used their instructions plus Chilton manual. Haven't checked what Bentley has regarding useful instructions.
Took my time (and used the opportunity with the front of the car off to install Ebay Godspeed FMIC, a very good decision).

Now preparing for TB job on 2.8 12V AFC and will again check out blauparts.
Will monitor what others think.

dirtyb5a4
03-16-2011, 07:13 AM
Ive bought three kits from ecs tuning and was very impressed. Thats the only place ill get them from now

BenjaminR
03-16-2011, 07:25 AM
Went with Blauparts kit also. It was complete and straight forward. Didnt get the tool kit either, I forget what specifically it was for but I remember I didnt need it.

As Vtraudt said good time to toss in a front mount intercooler while you have everything open. Also I wish I has remved the mechanical fan and installed another electric when I was in there. just some things to think about while your in the hood.

stick076
03-16-2011, 07:28 AM
I'm very happy with my ECS kit. Came with everything I needed (and a couple seals I didn't use). I followed the instructions on Audiworld.

itsTURBOTIME.
03-16-2011, 08:21 AM
Went with Blauparts kit also. It was complete and straight forward. Didnt get the tool kit either, I forget what specifically it was for but I remember I didnt need it.

As Vtraudt said good time to toss in a front mount intercooler while you have everything open. Also I wish I has remved the mechanical fan and installed another electric when I was in there. just some things to think about while your in the hood.

Do I need to mount a front mount intercooler even if I'm sticking with my stock turbo? [confused]

Also nobody has answered my kevlar belt question lol. I hear they are a lot more durable than OEM, or is that just talk?

MikeD7
03-16-2011, 08:27 AM
Do I need to mount a front mount intercooler even if I'm sticking with my stock turbo? [confused]

Also nobody has answered my kevlar belt question lol. I hear they are a lot more durable than OEM, or is that just talk?

You have a stock side mount IC so no need for a FMIC. As for the kevlar TB, I think its a waste of money of you are stock. I know 3 guys who have them but they are BT and have $5,000+ into their motor.

vtraudt
03-16-2011, 08:33 AM
FMIC only needed if you want to later on upgrade your power (and who doesn't with a 1.8T?).
No experience with Kevlar. But read that it is often (more often?) not the BELT itself, but the tensioner which fails and wrecks our engines. So you may get (claimed) 100k miles out of your belt just to see the tensioner go bad after 60k? I wouldn't go that route. Rather do a timing belt job every 60-70k.

ECS Tuning-Audi
03-16-2011, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the orders and the support!

Pete

guy022077
03-16-2011, 08:34 AM
i think that kevlar belt is for 06a only, and its 130 bucks....seems like a waste for a stock car.

itsTURBOTIME.
03-16-2011, 08:36 AM
Ok, I think i'm gonna go with the ECS kit, and probably order a snub mount from 034 as well since i'll have it all apart might as well.

Thanks guys! You've been a big help! [up]

oh and one more thing, how do I find what year my motor is to determine what kit I need to buy? I know there is a AEB & ATW or something like that...

vtraudt
03-16-2011, 08:37 AM
Pete, are you offering a 'de-sludge' kit for the 12V? I read recommendations for improved pick up tube, gasket, oil pump, filter.
What is your take on needing a timing belt tool like Blaupart suggests for the 12V timing belt job?

goodhews
03-16-2011, 08:42 AM
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5202807-***-INA-CYLINDER-HEAD-PROGRAM-FERREA-Valvetrain-amp-Timing-belt-Kits-***

Issams manual tensioner conversion is a nice option.

The kevlar belts are nice safety nets. They are stronger they last a little longer but they aren't really a necessity.

MikeD7
03-16-2011, 08:43 AM
Ok, I think i'm gonna go with the ECS kit, and probably order a snub mount from 034 as well since i'll have it all apart might as well.

Thanks guys! You've been a big help! [up]

oh and one more thing, how do I find what year my motor is to determine what kit I need to buy? I know there is a AEB & ATW or something like that...

What year is your car? The engine code is printed on the cylinder head.


Pete, are you offering a 'de-sludge' kit for the 12V? I read recommendations for improved pick up tube, gasket, oil pump, filter.
What is your take on needing a timing belt tool like Blaupart suggests for the 12V timing belt job?

I would recommend getting that tool

Ketamine1
03-16-2011, 09:41 AM
You have a stock side mount IC so no need for a FMIC. As for the kevlar TB, I think its a waste of money of you are stock. I know 3 guys who have them but they are BT and have $5,000+ into their motor.

The stock SMIC will heat soak on a roadcourse in a couple of minutes with a chip...

walky_talky20
03-16-2011, 09:50 AM
Based on the VIN you provided, you have a 2001 model year car, equipped with an AWM engine. And a "late VIN" AWM at that. This would be the appropriate kit for your car:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-Quattro-1.8T/Engine/Timing/ES1344/

I really like this ECS kit as it includes all the brands I like to see in a 1.8T t-belt kit:
All Contitech brand belts
Genuine Audi rollers
OEM (NTN) hydraulic tensioner
HEPU water pump
BEHR t-stat

All top quality stuff. If I could choose any brands to put on my 2001 1.8T, those would be the exact ones I would request.

MikeD7
03-16-2011, 09:54 AM
The stock SMIC will heat soak on a roadcourse in a couple of minutes with a chip...

I find a FMIC over kill on a K03.

ECS Tuning-Audi
03-16-2011, 09:55 AM
Pete, are you offering a 'de-sludge' kit for the 12V? I read recommendations for improved pick up tube, gasket, oil pump, filter.
What is your take on needing a timing belt tool like Blaupart suggests for the 12V timing belt job?

We don't have a kit like that pieced together but I'll mention it and see if its something we can offer in the future.

The timing belt tool makes the job much easier.

Pete

Papa_Dios
03-16-2011, 10:21 AM
I'm a little confused. Is the OEM tesioner manual or no? If not isn't the manual one better? Also I like the Blauparts kit because it comes with the cam seal gaskets and coolant and free shipping.

walky_talky20
03-16-2011, 10:37 AM
I'm a little confused. Is the OEM tesioner manual or no? If not isn't the manual one better? Also I like the Blauparts kit because it comes with the cam seal gaskets and coolant and free shipping.

- OEM tensioner is hydraulic
- ECS offers that kit with coolant for the same price as Blauparts with free shipping as well, making the difference only the 2 seals: 1 cam and 1 crank.
- You can add those seals to your order for about $5 (from ECS), if you wish.
- ECS tells you the brands you are getting (brands I discussed above)
- Blauparts does not give you any brand names. Perhaps they would tell you if you called and asked. Personally, I wouldn't run anything but a contitech t-belt. The quality difference between that and Dayco belt, for instance, is very noticeable.

Papa_Dios
03-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Thanks walky good info as usual. So hydraulic is fine I assume then. I just had read that there is a manual one that is better. Don't remember where though (another forum)

walky_talky20
03-16-2011, 11:51 AM
There is a manual tensioner that is available from 034 or Integrated Engineering (as I recall, don't remember exactly). It is a recent development and not one that is widely used in the repair industry. It is a product aimed more at the performance aftermarket crowd. I'm sure many regular repair shops have never and will never hear of this alternative. From Audi/VW (and the normal non-performance oriented aftermarket) the only tensioning system available is the hydraulic tensioner as factory equipped.

Personally, I'd rather have the hydraulic tensioner. With the manual one, it is advisable to check the tension once in a while as the belt stretches. I'd like to just put a new hydro tensioner in there with every t-belt and forget about it. There have been cases of the hydraulic tensioners failing, causing a subsequent timing belt failure "event" (and it *is* an event), but in my experience that happens mostly when the tensioner is not replaced with the belt (is used for a second interval).

goodhews
03-16-2011, 03:51 PM
Well i can guarantee there have been more manual timing belt tensioners in the vw/audi world than hydraulic, just not on 1.8t's. The manual tensioner is something that was taken from old vw 16v's. The hydraulic tensioner is designed to keep the belt tight as it becomes stretched. But hydraulic tensioners fail all the time no mater what it is only a mater of time and it will loose it's hydraulic pressure. But, the manual tensioner is locked in place and can never fail. But, as your timing belt stretches out it may need adjusted maybe check it every 10,000miles. If you was worried about checking it, get a kevlar belt since it wont stretch out.

The hydraulic tensioner is more expensive to replace and more likely to fail. Once you buy a manual tensioner you are done you never need to replace it, just occasionally check your t-belt tightness.

Issam/INA offers a kit
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5202807-***-INA-CYLINDER-HEAD-PROGRAM-FERREA-Valvetrain-amp-Timing-belt-Kits-***
if you talk to him he may offer kit without the tensioner housing(which you don't need)
and
Integrated engineering offers a kit which i don't care for. It is a bit more expensive and leaves your timing belt exposed

CVCarreiro
03-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Go with ecstuning, i was very pleased with my kit, and the price is just right

walky_talky20
03-16-2011, 10:38 PM
Integrated engineering offers a kit which i don't care for. It is a bit more expensive and leaves your timing belt exposed

This was the kit that I was aware of, the IE kit:
http://www.raimotorsport.com/IE-Manual-Tensioner-1-8T-Kit-p/ie-mechtenskit.htm

Which is double the price of the OEM setup. Didn't know about INA's kit, which is interesting. I didn't realize they are using all OEM style rollers in these manual tensioner setups (you are correct, the VW 2.0 manual tensioner is used). This makes this setup much more interesting to me. It seems like the only special piece that is required would be the spacer to get the correct offset on the main roller. That roller is $15, compared to about $50 for the normal 1.8T one, and you can leave your existing hydro tensioner in place and just put a new roller on it for $15. That brings the tensioning system cost down from about $100 to about $30, while deleting the sometimes problematic hydro tensioner. Combine that with a t-belt for $30 and you just cut the cost of the basic t-belt kit from $135 to $60. I'm just about ready to do my t-belt again on my DD. I think I might be converted!

goodhews
03-17-2011, 06:53 AM
lol exactly. IE's system is really a waste. It is a good looking waste of your money. Your spending more $ to have your timing belt exposed. And it actually is the 16v timing tensioner/roller. I imagine issam/ina would be willing sell just the spacer

itsTURBOTIME.
03-21-2011, 01:48 PM
Are the poly snub mounts worth putting on? It's only $20 at 034 motorsports. Also what coolant do I need to run with my new timing kit, I heard your only supposed to run a certain kind, or is that false?

vtraudt
03-21-2011, 02:17 PM
Coolant: Audi (and more and more OEM) now put 'long life' antifreeze in. They break down slower so the OEM can offer the now common very long warranties.
You should not mix, but the standard stuff works just as well.
All have the 'anti freeze' protection and additives to prevent corrosion.
When I changed my radiator and had drained the system completely, I went with the standard stuff.
If you are sure you have the original stuff in (if you are the original owner or have trusted maintenance records; otherwise, chances are that you don't have the original stuff anymore since every normal shop will put the standard stuff in), you may stay with the (hard to get locally, expensive to order/ship) original stuff (Blaupart offers it in the kit with the timing belt).

This is a good article:
Most of the antifreeze products on the market currently are ethylene glycol base material with additives to prevent corrosion, lubricate seals and water pumps and aid in heat transfer to the coolant from the metal of the engine. Antifreeze should be mixed with distilled water (tap water contains high amounts of minerals such as calcium and iron that can precipitate and coat internal parts) at the ratio of one part antifreeze to one part water. This gives freeze protection down to minus 34 degrees and boil-over protection up to +265 degrees. Never use pure antifreeze in a cooling system without using at least 30 percent water in the mixture.
Most antifreeze products sold for the past several years have been the traditional "green" coolant. This type is good for two to three years and up to 30,000 miles. The green antifreeze contains silicates, phosphates and / or borates as corrosion inhibitors to keep the solution alkaline. As long as the solution remains alkaline, corrosion is controlled and the system is protected. Over time, the corrosion inhibitors will be depleted and the corrosion protection is lost. It is for this reason that green antifreeze should be changed every two years or so. Aluminum is especially vulnerable to corrosion and many vehicles have heads, radiators and other aluminum components in the cooling system. If the coolant in an engine cooling system is changed before corrosion inhibitors reach dangerously low levels, corrosion damage is prevented.
An alternative to tradition green antifreeze is a product currently used by many engine manufacturers. "Orange" antifreeze is a long life or extended life type of antifreeze used to increase the useful life of engine coolant. It is ethylene glycol base as is the green antifreeze. The difference between the two colors is that orange antifreeze contains a different type of corrosion inhibitor that has a much longer service life than silicates, phosphates and borates. Orange antifreeze contains organic acids that protect engine parts from corrosion. Silicate (green) type antifreeze does not mix with orange type antifreeze. Never mix the two colors in a cooling system. The organic acids in orange types will cause precipitation of silicates in the green type and corrosion protection is greatly reduced. Orange type antifreezes are good for five years or 100,000/150,000 miles in newer vehicles (1996 and later). They can be used in many older vehicles (ask your vehicle dealer if it is safe to use orange antifreeze) if all of the green mixture is flushed from the system and is replaced with the orange mixture. Useful life is about four years or 60,000 miles in older cars.
Toyota uses a red antifreeze in many of its products and should not be confused with the orange type long life antifreezes. It is essentially the green type of antifreeze that contains red dye to give it the red color.
If you have doubts about switching from the red or green type of antifreeze to the new orange extended life antifreezes, contain your equipment manufacturer or dealer and ask about compatibility with your engine parts and cooling system.
Cummings diesel engines have silicone seals in the engine and do not recommend use of orange antifreeze because the organic acids will cause degradation of the seals after 80,000 to 100,000 miles of use. Coolant can leak past damaged seals into the engine lubrication oil system and plug oil filters with resulting damage to the engine.

AudiNFS
03-21-2011, 03:13 PM
- OEM tensioner is hydraulic
- ECS offers that kit with coolant for the same price as Blauparts with free shipping as well, making the difference only the 2 seals: 1 cam and 1 crank.
- You can add those seals to your order for about $5 (from ECS), if you wish.
- ECS tells you the brands you are getting (brands I discussed above)
- Blauparts does not give you any brand names. Perhaps they would tell you if you called and asked. Personally, I wouldn't run anything but a contitech t-belt. The quality difference between that and Dayco belt, for instance, is very noticeable.

Walky, how is the difference in timing belt (your last point) noticeable? I mean in what ways?

walky_talky20
03-21-2011, 10:30 PM
Stiffness and flexibility. The Conti's feel much more durable in my opinion while the cheaper belts feel more floppy. If you were going to rip one in half with your hands, I think you'd have more difficulty with the Contitech belt.

itsTURBOTIME.
03-22-2011, 09:52 AM
Ordered my kit from ECS yesterday! Got the ultimate kit. I definitely feel like I'm getting my money's worth. Although I didn't order the cam and the crank seals... but my car only has 85k on it. So maybe next tune up ill get the seals.

Kyüshutsu
02-16-2017, 12:39 PM
This was the kit that I was aware of, the IE kit:
http://www.raimotorsport.com/IE-Manual-Tensioner-1-8T-Kit-p/ie-mechtenskit.htm

Which is double the price of the OEM setup. Didn't know about INA's kit, which is interesting. I didn't realize they are using all OEM style rollers in these manual tensioner setups (you are correct, the VW 2.0 manual tensioner is used). This makes this setup much more interesting to me. It seems like the only special piece that is required would be the spacer to get the correct offset on the main roller. That roller is $15, compared to about $50 for the normal 1.8T one, and you can leave your existing hydro tensioner in place and just put a new roller on it for $15. That brings the tensioning system cost down from about $100 to about $30, while deleting the sometimes problematic hydro tensioner. Combine that with a t-belt for $30 and you just cut the cost of the basic t-belt kit from $135 to $60. I'm just about ready to do my t-belt again on my DD. I think I might be converted!

Walky, I apologize for resurrecting a dead thread but I saw you mentioned you might try the manual tensioner route in the future.

My question is did you end up doing the Manual Tensioner route with the Kevlar belt? If so, what are your thoughts and do you recommend it?

b6Hate4
02-16-2017, 12:41 PM
I find a FMIC over kill on a K03.

It's not overkill.

Edit: Holy necro bump

elduderino200
02-16-2017, 06:33 PM
Well since this was already bumped... I don't feel too bad about asking a similar question, this time regarding 2.8 timing kits

Blauparts: http://www.blauparts.com/proddetail.asp?prod=GH21112-1A

or

ECS: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembled-by-ecs-parts/ecs-tuning-timing-belt-kit-ultimate-plus-with-gates-racing-timing-belt/078109487ckt/

Almost exactly the same price but I don't know OE suppliers so I'm not sure which is better regarding specific pieces...