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h3o
02-25-2011, 03:49 PM
So im new, obviously, but not new to modifying cars. I am a former dsm guy that wanted some luxury in his life but still wanted the awd turbo. Now i know that i will get the you are comparing oranges to apples comment from this question but, i dont get the upgrades that most people do to audi's. I mean $400+ for a chip seems a little steep for me, considering that a chip on a dsm can go for about $100 for a OTS chip. Also the biggest question that puzzles me is the injector sizing. How do you get away running moderate to high boost on tiny injectors? i see people running 440's for the gt28 when the dsm will outrun the 450's with a 14b. I guess the audi has way more electronics then i'd like to mess with but i am very interested on learning the concept of how you modify these cars. My ultimate goal is really just a mild build probably with a hx35 or similar, but still confused on all these different tunes i see. Anyways I guess coming from a dsm im looking at getting the most for my money so I don't want to do things twice if you know what i mean.

walky_talky20
02-25-2011, 04:05 PM
Yeah, tunes are expensive on our platform. I think it has something to do with how complex the Motronic EFI is as compared to the Mitsubishi stuff. That, along with Audi being a synonym for CA$H DOLLAR$, that plays into it as well. If you just want a Stage 1 flash to begin with, it is best to get one used for half the price. Coming from the DSM's, you might be interested in the newer "Maestro" package from Eurodyne. It allows you customize the tune yourself, if you know what you're doing. Somewhat similar to your DSMLink thingy, or what-have-you, except it isn't free, or even cheap. But, yeah.

As for the injector question, I can't say for sure, but we may be running higher fuel pressure. Some of the S4 guys run up to 5 bar FPR's.

h3o
02-25-2011, 04:19 PM
o there you go i havent even though about fuel pressure, ya i was looking into the maestro package. O well i guess the saying "you gotta pay to play" is strong with this community. Does anyone run haltech or aem stand alones on the audi's?

dirtyb5a4
02-25-2011, 05:24 PM
The aeb 1.8t comes stock with a 4 bar fpr if that explains the fuel pressure for you

spindoctor
02-25-2011, 05:31 PM
Never heard of anyone running a full standalone here with the haltech or AEM. I know of two guys running a 034motorsports standalone ECU ie Mike Hood and a4Rob.

If you're a DSM'er, I'm sure you know David Bushur of Buschur Racing. He's done a review on the Haltech PS1000 and it looks positive. Here's the link:-

http://highboostforum.com/forum/showthread.php/23872-Haltech-Sport-1000

I may go this route in the future as there's no software tuners out there that caters my ECU code(558DA).

Lazer Viking
02-25-2011, 06:01 PM
there is a guy in florida ? i think running aem standalone, with a custom made harness.. i think his username is "jk35" or something like that

Lazer Viking
02-25-2011, 06:04 PM
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/283179-BT-Stroker-Nitrous-Meth-with-a-LOT-of-issues

this guy

Papa_Dios
02-25-2011, 06:16 PM
Also take into account that the tuning for the B5 platform is fairly young whereas the 4G63's have been around for 15+ years. I had a DSM along with Hondas/Nissans/Toyotas and they are all cheaper due to the fact that there are soooo many options companies cannot afford to overprice themselves out of the market. Also OBDI to OBDII tuning is a different world.

FasterA4ThanUrs
02-25-2011, 06:30 PM
4g63's heads flow way more air than even a ported AEB head with oversized valves. Though you may be running the same psi on a given turbo, you are not running the same cfm, thus needing less fuel in the audi's (and making way less power).

h3o
02-25-2011, 06:50 PM
4g63's heads flow way more air than even a ported AEB head with oversized valves. Though you may be running the same psi on a given turbo, you are not running the same cfm, thus needing less fuel in the audi's (and making way less power).

the same psi on any given turbo would give you the same cfm, i understand what your saying though. And I haven't,until now, realized what pressure the fuel is going at. And yea i know the dsm's have been around for awhile and that would cut down on r&d, im just trying to understand the whole system of the audi. Kinda know the inside and out of a 4g63, and hopefully can get well versed in this world too. Now I just have to piece together everything so i can start this build, i already have the hx35 and 44m wastegate, along with a intercooler that may fit. The biggest thing I have to save for is the tuning stuff. Man I wish that stuff was cheaper but I understand the companies do need to make there money back for all that time and research. O well save save save.

FasterA4ThanUrs
02-25-2011, 07:25 PM
the same psi on any given turbo would give you the same cfm.

Thats simply not true. You can run 20psi in a small space and get a low cfm, or 20psi in a large space and get a high cfm. Coming out of the compressor housing, yes it will be the same cfm rate. But going through the head is where it matters and where the rates would be different due to spacial variations.

h3o
02-25-2011, 09:25 PM
Thats simply not true. You can run 20psi in a small space and get a low cfm, or 20psi in a large space and get a high cfm. Coming out of the compressor housing, yes it will be the same cfm rate. But going through the head is where it matters and where the rates would be different due to spacial variations.

buddy i know what your trying to say. what i am trying to say is if you put a 14b out on the audi or the dsm the psi and cfm coming out of the "turbo" will be the same. I am not arguing the flow rate of the head.

ricekikr
02-25-2011, 10:04 PM
I think fasterthanurs means the actual CFM going into the engine cylinders. So you both are correct [:)]

Re: Standalone

There are several.

1. Lugtronic / Vems which I think is a souped up Megasquirt. They have plug and play and wire-it-up. Has tech support for the 1.8t
2. Megasquirt some people have made this work
3. AEM EMS - There's one on here to make it work. He's also selling a "system" for the 1.8t. Search, forgot who.
4. 034motorport EFI - Looks like this has the best tech support for the 1.8t
5. Maestro - Great if your DBW. If your DBC, there are mixed reviews.

Search on the ff and decide which to get. Overall cost greatly varies. All of them can do the basic fuel/ignition. Some have more features, AEM has traction control, most have launch control, don't know which has no-lift-shift / meth control.

I'm currently on a piggyback, can do the basic fuel/ignition. If I had to do it again, I'd get a Megasquirt if I can find a definitive way to make it work properly, if not, I'd get a Lugtronic.

somebody5788
02-25-2011, 10:17 PM
Help an Audi guy understand an Evo IX MR that he's gonna buy =P

h3o
02-25-2011, 10:20 PM
Help an Audi guy understand an Evo IX MR that he's gonna buy =P

hahahaha, in all honesty i was about to buy a VIII but got addicted to the a4's looks. The MR is awesome, no luxury which is how the evo is meant to be.

Aragorn
02-26-2011, 12:43 AM
The CFM coming out of a turbo for a given psi is NOT the same.

Take a look at any compressor map, and you'll see that for a given PR (ie boost pressure), theres a huge island covering a wide range of flow rates, depending on compressor speed.

Even on one engine, the CFM changes for a given PSI, as you climb up thru the revs. The turbo might make 8psi from 3k all the way to the red line, but the CFM's the turbos putting out will increase with the RPM's as the engine has the ability to consume more air.

M-Hood
02-26-2011, 09:28 AM
Help an Audi guy understand an Evo IX MR that he's gonna buy =P

1 thing you will miss is the feel of how the Audi drives.

M-Hood
02-26-2011, 09:31 AM
there is a guy in florida ? i think running aem standalone, with a custom made harness.. i think his username is "jk35" or something like that

Yes he is the only one. This is because you pretty much have to wire up the whole thing yourself, no plug & play or even base tunes to start with.

somebody5788
02-26-2011, 09:50 AM
hahahaha, in all honesty i was about to buy a VIII but got addicted to the a4's looks. The MR is awesome, no luxury which is how the evo is meant to be.

Well mines for sale lol

h3o
02-26-2011, 12:25 PM
The CFM coming out of a turbo for a given psi is NOT the same.

Take a look at any compressor map, and you'll see that for a given PR (ie boost pressure), theres a huge island covering a wide range of flow rates, depending on compressor speed.

Even on one engine, the CFM changes for a given PSI, as you climb up thru the revs. The turbo might make 8psi from 3k all the way to the red line, but the CFM's the turbos putting out will increase with the RPM's as the engine has the ability to consume more air.


okay again and again and again, i am not arguing that with you guys, I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE WRONG, the wording in the statements are wrong. Pull the charge pipes off the turbo and run the turbo on two different cars. The same psi and same cfm will come out of the turbo. I am not arguing that there will be more cfm due to vacuum of the engine, i am understand what you guys are trying to say. I am simply saying that the way you word your statements are wrong.

h3o
02-26-2011, 12:26 PM
Yes he is the only one. This is because you pretty much have to wire up the whole thing yourself, no plug & play or even base tunes to start with.

im used to it, before the 4g63 i ran a fj20 in my 510 with megasquirt spark and fuel II. All the wiring and headaches were done by me and my buddy.