View Full Version : something is draining my battery.... any ideas?
digitalAUDI
01-24-2011, 07:52 AM
So here is the story as best as I can explain it:
I recently had a clifford alarm and remote starter installed on my car. Prior to this, the car was fine, battery was old, but didnt drain till it was dead. After the alarm install, i started noticing that my city lights (DRL) were staying on and wouldn't turn off at all as well as the little lights on the knob to switch lights on.
The guys that installed my radio have been going back and forth with it and they see that something is drawing power from the battery, but the arent sure from where or from what? They have taken the alarm out completely and still see that something is drawing the power. They had installed some other device with the alarm that was supposed to keep all the wiring and sensors hooked up in one place (don't know what it is called) and they took that out, have tried reprogramming it with the help from the company that makes it and nothing.
My problem is that my car's battery drains over the course of 2-3 days once it sits overnight. If the car starts the first time in the morning, it starts everytime after that, but once it let it sit for about 8 hours and the 3rd day, the battery no longer has enough power to start the car, its not completed dead, but slightly drained and if I let it sit for the rest of the day, it will be dead by the end of it.
I'm trying to explain it as best as I can. I have vagcom'd the ecu to see if anything came up, but only codes for the DRL's where showing, so we turned them off, but that doesnt seem to be the issue.
Again, my car was fine before the alarm, I have no changed the battery to a brand new one from Bosch and I am still having this issue...
Anyone ever go through this or knows someone who did and how it was solved?
At this point im getting frustrated and so are the guys that did the install.
Any help would be appreciated...
eastwick897
01-24-2011, 08:02 AM
Who installed it?
MAlby7
01-24-2011, 09:15 AM
By any chance do you have a DICE electronics Ipod module installed? I have one but no alarm and notice that my battery tends to drain a little also.
digitalAUDI
01-24-2011, 09:23 AM
Who installed it?
Vortex mobile audio in union
By any chance do you have a DICE electronics Ipod module installed? I have one but no alarm and notice that my battery tends to drain a little also.
no dice module. I have a dual din Alpine unit
mr shickadance
01-24-2011, 09:29 AM
sort of sounds like the people who installed alarm or car starter did not wire the remote to an item that turns off properly. like when installing an amp you need to wire the remote shut off to a part that also turns off when the car shuts off so the amp doesn't continuously run.
the alarm is more tricky bc you dont want the alarm to shut off when the car turns off as it would prove worthless, as such alarms i dont think use enough energy to drain a fully charged brand new battery but again stranger things have happened
more likely the issue could be stemming from an improper auto starter now i could be reading this wrong and the alarm and car starter is one complete unit and if thats the case then i would just yank everything out as a dead battery is im sure more of a hassle then a cold car in the morning
Sprode
01-24-2011, 09:30 AM
This sounds like something that should be handled by the shop. Clearly something wasn't wired in right.
digitalAUDI
01-24-2011, 09:34 AM
a dead battery is definitely a hassle, i've had to jump start the car a few times already in the morning.
As for the wiring, they did completely remove the alarm/remote starter from the car and saw that there was still something drawing power from the battery. They've been making phone calls to companies who they work with but haven't gotten a straight answer yet...
so at this point in time, removing it completely still doesnt solve the problem. I'm just wondering what could have been changed, even if by accident, that could be causing this because it wasn't happening before the install...
I've been told that the ecu or whichever it is that controls these things can be tricky because one minor change can set something else off as is the case in this instance...
mr shickadance
01-24-2011, 09:40 AM
then they defineltly effed something up on your wiring....
no problem before the shop screwed around
problem with new stuff installed
problem with new stuff taken out
...no problem before the shop did anything
you may already know this but it caused me some serious problems when i installed my amp....i wired everything i thought correctly according to a diy and my last step was making sure that the amp turned off....everycar i have worked on had the amp shut off immediatly when i took the key out
on the audi, i took the key out....amp was still on....waited a bit....amp was still on.....pissed i undid all my wiring and double/triple checked to make sure i had everything good....turned the car off...amp still on.....
then i realized that it takes like 45 seconds for the electronics in my car to turn off and that i had done everything right the 1st time around just didn;t wait enough to realize it.....
anyways maybe with all the pulled out the shop isn;t waiting long enough and saying power is still being drained without waiting until most everything turns off.
there is always gonna be something draining your battery with today's ECU's and what not but the draw isn't enough to drain ur battery in 3 days
audinewguy
01-24-2011, 09:42 AM
cold weather could also play a role.
This is why I won't even mess with an auto starter on this car... I have one with an alarm installed by Best Buy in Union in the Civic.
You need to have them disconnect the negative cable from the battery and put a amp meter in between the cable and the battery. This will tell what the actual amp draw is. I am not sure what the correct amp draw on an A4 is, but once it is connected, have them pull each fuse one by one to see which circuit is pulling the amp's. Then they can trace that entire circuit.
So they are saying they didn't cut a single wire? or tap into any wires? If they did, their could be a short that is draining the battery.
digitalAUDI
01-24-2011, 09:52 AM
oh they waited long enough, i cant tell you that much. They car sat in their shop overnight twice so they could see how much was being drained and from where. They know how much, still trying to figure out the where and why part. They know this is their problem and they have taken full responsibility in fixing it. I'll probably be leaving it there again sometime this week. I was just hoping to get some more ideas to run by them that they could check to help find the cause.
They have installed these same items in other audi vehicles and have had no issues, so I know they know what they are doing, this is just turning into a big headache because its most likely going to be the stupidist thing that none of us would even consider...
The problem with alarm/stereo shops is they are NOT mechanics... They know how to wire alarms/stereos. Leaving a car to see how quickly it drains is not the proper way to diagnose this. The need to tell you what is the sitting amp draw is. You can do it yourself with a $50 multimeter from Radio Shack (right there on R22 next to game stop). Connect one side to the cable and the other to the battery with it on... Then report back the number. I know on older cars you wanted < 0.1 amps. (DO NOT TRY TO START THE CAR WITH THE MULTIMETER IN LINE OF YOUR BATTERY) But with newer highly electronic cars... I have no idea. I will google search it for you though.
mr shickadance
01-24-2011, 09:59 AM
^ at least your shop is doing the right thing about it sometimes it can be quite a struggle and often you get the runaround or "the problem existed before we did anything".....
Something I found a a Caddy site, from the manual: "No production vehicle should have more than a 50 mA (0.050 amp) draw. "
Read this:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair/how-to-stop-car-battery-drains
digitalAUDI
01-24-2011, 10:12 AM
Something I found a a Caddy site, from the manual: "No production vehicle should have more than a 50 mA (0.050 amp) draw. "
Read this:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair/how-to-stop-car-battery-drains
Yes, they know what the amp draw is, they told me before, I forget the actual number, but i know its highter then .05.
So your saying that they should now go through every fuse until they find the one that stops the amp draw?
They arent mechanics, but they have been doing this for quite a while, they arent new to car audio wiring...
Whether or not they cut or tapped into any wires, I don't know, I'd have to ask...
eastwick897
01-24-2011, 11:09 AM
Vortex is a good shop. I personally have never had anything done there but have heard good reviews. Idk much about car electronics, but can the remote starter somehow be interfering with the immobilizer? Is this the same system Bentley runs on his RS6?
digitalAUDI
01-24-2011, 11:33 AM
They have been there a good 30 years, so they must be doing something right. I have no complaints either. I got my radio and HIDs done there and didnt have any issues.
Its not the same system, but it is a clifford system. I have a basic system with remote start and Bentley has the top of the line system. Then again if I had an rs6, i probably would too! lol
The quickest way to diagnosis this is to do that test I said. Hopefully by doing that they will isolate the circuit that is the culprit. Then they can trace each component on that circuit.
Be sure they test all relays as well, as a relay could have gone bad in the "On" position, causing the draw. Hopefully this will be the issue, because relays are cheap, and easy.
I'm sure they are a good shop, Are they the shop that's on 22 E across from the adult book store? I went to the stereo shop on 22W next to the adult book shop, to add a truck pop solenoid to my civic's alarm.
digitalAUDI
01-24-2011, 01:00 PM
yeah, they are the ones across from Car Toys
I'll give them your suggestion and see what they say.
eastwick897
01-24-2011, 02:17 PM
They have been there a good 30 years, so they must be doing something right. I have no complaints either. I got my radio and HIDs done there and didnt have any issues.
Its not the same system, but it is a clifford system. I have a basic system with remote start and Bentley has the top of the line system. Then again if I had an rs6, i probably would too! lol
His system is an overkill imho. Most software writers now offer and anti-theft option. My saying is, if they really want your car there will be nothing that could stop them... I'm trying to get Autospeed to integrate a remote start with their ipod/iphone app.
J.Owen
01-24-2011, 04:32 PM
I'm trying to get Autospeed to integrate a remote start with their ipod/iphone app.
That would be amazing. I would be all for that.
eastwick897
01-24-2011, 06:25 PM
If Vortex figures out your car and your remote start works well I'm going to look into Bentleys kit for my car.
digitalAUDI
01-25-2011, 08:00 AM
I'll let you know. I'm going to go see them today. Apparently the DRL's aren't the issue. Battery is still getting drained slowely. Had to jump start it again this morning.
Sprode
01-25-2011, 08:23 AM
They really ought to be going through fuse by fuse. If you start at the main fusebox you can narrow it down pretty quickly...
4ty-phive
01-25-2011, 11:02 AM
IMHO, the first thing that should be done is check all of your grounding points. This is usually the culprit for this kind of problem.
IMHO, the first thing that should be done is check all of your grounding points. This is usually the culprit for this kind of problem.
Yes... AFTER you determine which circuit it is on... It could be a problem that has nothing to do with the alarm/starter install. So rather then test every ground on the car, you should narrow it down first. This is the correct way to diagnose electrical problems in a car.
eastwick897
01-31-2011, 06:44 AM
Well? Any update?
^^^^x2
digitalAUDI
01-31-2011, 08:22 AM
as of yet, no updates. Problem is still there. I haven't gotten a chance to leave the car there again, more due to the damn weather we are having than anything else. Might leave it there tomorrow for them to look at depending on how much snow we have in the morning.
I did tell him about going fuse to fuse, but i think he said that since the door will be open, which turns on the inside lights so there is a draw there, you really won't be able to tell (something like that, don't remember the words exactly).
The other thing is possibly the starter itself. They might check to see if disconnecting the starter eliminates the draw.
Hoping to get this resolved soon, at this point, I practically have to jump start the car every morning if I want to use it and check on it throughout the day to make sure it starts (a.k.a. going to and from work so I don't get stuck anywhere). Overnight, whatever draws the power leaves my battery dead or almost dead by morning...
digitalAUDI
01-31-2011, 08:24 AM
Yes... AFTER you determine which circuit it is on... It could be a problem that has nothing to do with the alarm/starter install. So rather then test every ground on the car, you should narrow it down first. This is the correct way to diagnose electrical problems in a car.
i'm not sure if this has anything to do with the alarm/remote starter because at one point they removed the alarm completely as if where never installed and the draw was still there...
I did tell him about going fuse to fuse, but i think he said that since the door will be open, which turns on the inside lights so there is a draw there, you really won't be able to tell (something like that, don't remember the words exactly).
Easy test... First test the draw with the door closed before pulling fuses... Write down that number and see if it is beyond the acceptable threshold.
Then, go it and pull the door ajar fuse first. See if there is a big difference between the original number and the number displayed with the fuse out. If at this point the number is below the acceptable number you know it has something to do with that circuit. If not, leave that fuse out, and go on one by one for the rest of the fuses, checking the draw after the fuse is out.
digitalAUDI
01-31-2011, 11:54 AM
seems like something I can do myself if I can't get the car over there to them again this week cause of the weather.... I just need an amp meter right?
Tanner
01-31-2011, 12:00 PM
And once the battery has been drained a few times like yours by the sounds of it, it doesn't take much now for it to drain over night to the point it won't be able to hold a charge.
Don't replace the battery unless they fix the issue or until you're able to isolate which fuse to stop the drain. Otherwise you'll just end up killing the new battery.
digitalAUDI
01-31-2011, 12:02 PM
It already is a new battery, granted I thought it would be fixed by now when I replaced it. I'm going to try and get it resolved this week even if it means changing the starter...
Yes you can do it yourself... go down to radio shack. Get a multimeter ($50-$70). Remove the negative cable from the battery. Put one clamp on the battery terminal, and the other the cable you removed. Turn the multimeter it it's Amp setting. It should be less then 0.1, way less closer to 0.01 (keep the doors closed). If it is draining overnight it will be very close or more then 0.1. Then do what I suggested, remove the fuse with the door sensors first, if it goes down to an acceptable reading that's it, if it goes right about back to where it was with the doors closed, then that isn't it. Then go fuse by fuse with that door sensor fuse still out.
digitalAUDI
01-31-2011, 01:12 PM
ok. i'll give it a try soon as I can and see what happens...
digitalAUDI
02-02-2011, 09:47 AM
So all fuses have been checked and none of them are solving the issue. I'm getting a 1.7 amp draw right now.
Are there fuses anywhere else besides the side panel and the ones by the relays?
They are also thinking here that maybe the light switch itself isn't working...
Going to try and check things out more today....
Tanner
02-02-2011, 09:51 AM
Friend's bro had a TT that had a mysterious power drain. It was determined that the alternator was shorting to ground. He also had a previous issue with the battery draining and it was due to a faulty blinker relay or switch - guessing if no lights are on, the current should be zero.
Yeah 1.7 is high. It could be the alternator, or starter. I dont know audi engines very well, but you pulled all the relays?
digitalAUDI
02-03-2011, 07:57 AM
So for the latest update in this little venture, I personally did not pull out the fuses and relays, but the guys at vortex did that themselves yesterday as well as disconnecting the alarm, remote starter, radio, my steering column gauges, etc... and the amp draw was still there.
I took it to another body of mine that has the vag-com software to scan the computer and see if any errors came up and turns out I have a "Electric Circuit Failure" on my "Steering Column Control Module (or whatever its called)". This error is also linked to a few other things, one being a fault with the ignition switch apparently.
So I'm guessing my car keeps thinking there is a key in the ignition which could explain why the lights on the light switch stay on... right? any thoughts on this now?
My friend is going to try to get my car at an audi dealer that will change the module out under warranty (which I still have until the end of this year I believe). Hopefully he can and this does fix it, otherwise, back to vortex for them to take another stab at it....
I'll bet this will boil down to the remote start feature install. Since they have to fool the system into thinking the key is in the ignition.
Does it beep with the door open, without your key in the ignition? Does the factory alarm still work?
Quattro
02-03-2011, 12:41 PM
interesting post, subscribing for updates....
the remote feature should have no adverse effects on the car, just depends on how everything was wired. It is possible that during install/testing, etc...they could have damaged a module (we have very sensitive modules) and that is what is causing the problem. Great you scanned your car, that was going to be my recommendation.
digitalAUDI
02-03-2011, 01:40 PM
I'll bet this will boil down to the remote start feature install. Since they have to fool the system into thinking the key is in the ignition.
Does it beep with the door open, without your key in the ignition? Does the factory alarm still work?
It doesn't beep with the door is open and right now, the factory alarm does sound when I arm the system, but I can not use the buttons on the key.
digitalAUDI
02-03-2011, 01:42 PM
interesting post, subscribing for updates....
the remote feature should have no adverse effects on the car, just depends on how everything was wired. It is possible that during install/testing, etc...they could have damaged a module (we have very sensitive modules) and that is what is causing the problem. Great you scanned your car, that was going to be my recommendation.
Might be interesting to you, but is a giant headache to me! lol jump starting my car every morning isn't how I want to start my day...
In any case, having scanned the ecu and gotten the fault, i've let the guys at vortex know and they are going to take a look at it tomorrow. I'm hoping they are able to resolve now that they kinda know where the issue is. Not sure if the module is or went bad yet, but i'm sure I'll find out tomorrow.
digitalAUDI
02-04-2011, 12:44 PM
Alright, so its been narrowed down to the Steering column control module which controlles all the lights in the car. My situation at hand is that lights stay on inside the car in which case this drains the battery over night. So gonna try to get the car over to my local audi dealership and see if they will replace that module under warranty. Hopefully my friend can help me out with this and i'll owe him a favor...
digitalAUDI
02-09-2011, 07:46 AM
So I took the car to the Audi Dealer yesterday and it turns out that the remote starter was somehow affecting the steering column module and some of my interior lights on which in turn drained my battery overnight. So they told me to take out the remote starter, which Vortex did (they took out everything actually just in case), and when I went back, I guess Audi reset the module and everything is back to normal now.
Vortex now has to figure out another way to install the remote starter without affecting that module...
So if anyone else is planning on getting a remote starter, careful how you connect it.
Best way to see that the steering column module has been affected is that your DRLs stay all the time even after you have locked your car and the little lights on the headlight switch knob stay on as well instead of turning off after a short time. (at least that is how it was for me...)
I knew it!!! Glad you got it resolved. Skip the remote start, have them give you a credit to some stereo equipment...
Start your car, and walk back inside, wait 5-10 minutes, then return!!!