Do I smell a 60-1 build? (pics)

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well boys and girls, Santa may have come late this year but he delivered. A good buddy of mine must have taken pity on my starving student status and decided to donate a few leftover parts from when he sold his shop.

Although I'm going to have to call Turbonetics to confirm, I'm virtually certain that this is a 60-1. From what I can see the 50, 57 and 60 trim all have 6 blade compressors whereas the 60-1 compressors have 7 blades. Also, the fact that this turbo made 325 AWHP at 18 PSI and 400 AWHP at 21 PSI all at 3500 ft elevation at leads me to think that it's a 60-1. It was also apparently completely worked over by the guys at Majestic turbo.

(caliper included for scale)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1726.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1727.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1728.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1729.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1731.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1733.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1737.jpg

Also, I got this nifty manifold.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1723.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1721.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1725.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1722.jpg

Given my time and money situation this is going to be a slow build. I plan on piecing together the remaining parts over the winter and maybe get it in by springtime. My next mission is to fabricate a tubular exhaust manifold. I spoke the guys at BMR racing and I think I can get a steel 4-1 T3 flanged collector for about $90 and a steel head flange for $35. That just leaves the tubing to build. I'm electing to go with regular steel with ceramic coating on this one for a few reasons. One, according to BMR, regular steel has better expansion characteristics which prevent cracking. Two, the material cost is way less compared to stainless. Finally, I'm more comfortable MIG welding. Although I'll get around to TIG when I get the time, I'd rather not make my first project a stainless exhaust manifold.

Anyway, as I said before it'll be a while before I finish up this one. However I'm looking forward to having a new crazy plan to think about. [drive]

[zdriver]

goodluck, looks like you scored some legit stuff

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, I got lucky on that one. My one issue that I'm running into is that the intake mani was from a small port head. The flange is thick enough and there is enough weld material to allow me to flare the port to match my big port head. I've been perusing the VWvortex manifold shoot-out and although the ports are smaller, it looks like the overall flow would still be better than the AEB stock manifold assuming it flows as much as the 007 small port which it looks closest in design to (estimated 588 CFM vs 421) http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3098525-***1.8T-Intake-Manifold-Test-Results***

[T0mat3]

There are transition gaskets from small to big or the other way around for your intake mani. Glad to hear your building yours up also :)

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Good call, I forgot about those. By the way, what ended up happening with your turbo dilemma? What did the guys who made the line have to say?

[T0mat3]

They didn't pay jack shit, and since they didnt keep what ever came out of the line, I wouldn't be able to prove it's there fault. Bought an other one and the car is running right now. I got koni's to install this weekend, and winter tires ( as quebec requires drivers to have some, I wasnt using the car so... got them now lol)

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Shitty deal, I hope your next turbo fares better.

[Dan[FN]6262]

Paint it red!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So curiousity got the better of me and I pulled the turbine housing. Based on what I'm seeing it looks like it's some sort of modified P trim turbine, or at least that's what my best guess is. Anyone else know for sure? In any case, based on my measurements and compressor maps for the 60-1, this SOB if going to flow a lot of friggin air. I'm pegging it as falling somewhere around as much as a GT3076r.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1796.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1798.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1800.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1799.jpg

[flynnr]

I woukd find out the exact turbo that is and find out a lot more Bout it..... And then sell it and buy something proven to be a good match for our cars... In the long run you wont regret it

[Dan[FN]6262]

that CHRA looks a lot like a Comp Turbo CHRA.

[Dan[FN]6262]

I woukd find out the exact turbo that is and find out a lot more Bout it..... And then sell it and buy something proven to be a good match for our cars... In the long run you wont regret it

eh, the 6262 wasn't supposed to be a good match for a 1.8l with a small port head. but I love it [:)]

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, I know this one is well matched to our cars as it came off a 1.8T. Apparently it made full boost just after 4000 RPM. As far as I know it was worked over my Majestic turbo prior to being installed. Truth be told I'm starting to beleive that the T3/T4 series can be a good match, IF the components are selected right. I think where the problem lies is that there are sooo many different combos that you could get a T3/T4 that's a complete dog if the compressor, turbine, A/R etc... aren't selected properly.

That, and the fact that the ball bearing hype machine has so many people absolutely convinced that a journal bearing turbo won't spool until 8000 RPM on our engines. As an aside, I have yet to see any real back to back, same car, same dyno etc... comparisons between a BB/journal bearing version of the same turbo on a 1.8. Anyway, I just need to go off on that rant for a bit.

As for the ID on the CHRA it's a Turbonetics for sure. There's a logo cast into the side of the housing.

[black99.5a4]

if its getting spool that quick, its going to be a small a/r exhaust housing. i didn't see you list it.. Laser Viking's t3/t4 50 trim .63 a/r doesnt see 20psi till 4400-4500 on a stock AEB on open 3" dp.

[Dan[FN]6262]

if its getting spool that quick, its going to be a small a/r exhaust housing. i didn't see you list it.. Laser Viking's t3/t4 50 trim .63 a/r doesnt see 20psi till 4400-4500 on a stock AEB on open 3" dp.

speaking of which, I'm going to make a trip out to meet you in a little while, when shit melts off. ok, that was actually entirely off topic.

[black99.5a4]

5857;6121716']speaking of which, I'm going to make a trip out to meet you in a little while, when shit melts off. ok, that was actually entirely off topic.

the way its going, that'll be never.

[Dan[FN]6262]

the way its going, that'll be never.

yeah, no shit. its snowing like crazy here right now.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

if its getting spool that quick, its going to be a small a/r exhaust housing. i didn't see you list it.. Laser Viking's t3/t4 50 trim .63 a/r doesnt see 20psi till 4400-4500 on a stock AEB on open 3" dp.

Yeah, it's a .48 A/R, however the clip on the turbine probably puts it somewhere in the .52 A/R equivalent range, (I'm guessing). In any case, it's probably a good compromise between spool and choke. In all honesty, it would take a LOT of revs to outflow this compressor Here's my basis for that claim http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3980360-check-out-this-compressor-map-and-tell-me-what-you-think/page4&highlight=compressor+map The OP in this thread superimposed 1.8T flow requirements across a ton of compressor maps. If you look just a little before half way he has the 60-1 map listed as T3 60-1. There you can see that turbo will flow up to 11,000 RPM on a 1.8 liter displacement. Now, I do realize that there are other factors that come into play, however it at least shows how much you'd need to rev to in order to outflow this thing.

So in my opinion it's kind of a waste to have a .63 A/R on a 60-1 unless you're setup to rev past 8500+. That, and I'm also at 3500 ft elevation. So take Lazerviking's spool and add 200-300 or so RPM and then I'm not seeing full boost until close to 5000 RPM. Kind of a waste in my circumstances.

[black99.5a4]

Your numbers and a/r isnt matching anything on this

http://www.turbo-kits.com/t3t4_turbochargers.html

do you have a p/n on that turbo?

full frammed t3/t4 60-1's have 4" inlets.. a t3 60 trim is tiny.. i'd get if anything its a t3/t4 50 trim with a stage 3 compressor wheel with a .48 exhaust housing.

simple a guess without too much searching.. b/c that would give you the spool you seen and the inlet size you have.

[black99.5a4]

found something similar on a silvia site.. 7 blade, .48 housing and a t3/t4 60-1 .70 compressor turbonetics...

does yours say turbonetics? they were known to have a T on them on the compressor housing or say turbonetics.. "air research" is garret..

edit ** they are both 4" inlets.. as are the other 60-1's i have looked at

The only 3" inlet is the Kinetics t3/t4 60-1

[ZimbutheMonkey]

It's a Turbonetics Hi-FI, I know that for fact. They have a smaller inlet if you check the Turbonetics site.

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/60series_turbochargers

[black99.5a4]

"The dedicated compressor housing features a 4'' inlet and 2.5'' discharge but is significantly smaller than the T-Series"

your measurements in your top pictures, is a 3" inlet.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

At the bottom of the page "Even smaller still is the 60-1 Hi-Fi which will flow approximately 10% less air than the full-size model but resides in a compact 2.75'' inlet and 2'' discharge. The Hi-Fi version should be used only if space is a concern."

Just to clarify, as I stated earlier it has a turbonetics logo cast into the CHRA and the turbine housing has a .48 cast into it. Also, the compressor inducer is 59mm and the exducer is 3.00 in, so the 60-1 compressor ID is not in dispute. The only question I have now is exactly which turbine is being used. However based on what I'm seeing it looks to be closest to a machined P-trim.

[black99.5a4]

yeah, I over looked that.

I'd say you probably arent going to see full boost till 46-4800.. depends what the a/r really comes out to being.

not bad if you wanna highway the car.. dont know your intentions for the car though.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Honestly, my intentions for the car are to build it for the hell of it. I'm not stuck on posting 400 WHP dyno graphs. I do stuff like this to challenge myself and learn. For example, I'm going to fabricate a tubular manifold. I could buy a used manifold for $150-200 and be done with that step, but I want to see what I can come up with on my own. So in the end really, it's more the process than the outcome that I'm in this for.

As for spool, I'm going to go with closer to 4000-4200 RPM. As I said, the guy I got it from ran it on a 1.8t A4 in the same city as I live in and saw full boost around then so I have no reason to doubt that. He didn't sell it to me so he had no reason to lie. Like I said though, differences like my manifold design, port size etc... may change that a little. But in the event that it boosts later then I'll just build the head and up the revs. But I'd prefer not to at this stage in the game.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well, mini update. Some more stuff arrived in the mail today. My merge collector and flanges I ordered from BMC racing came in. I was impressed with the quality of the work. Looking at the welds on this makes me really really glad I got it made by a professional. BTW: for those of you who need to make up lines here's an awesome site for A/N fittings and braided lines. The best part is, they'll beat a competitors price by 10% if you can find a better deal. I figure you can't loose. So that's where I'm getting my fittings from next. http://www.anfittingsdirect.com/index.php?cPath=301&osCsid=f209d385c1d3105c551a422a846626df
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1802.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1806.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1807.jpg
They did a nice job of collaring the manifold flange. Makes my like a hell of a lot easier welding to it.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1804.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1805.jpg
And a group shot of my motley assembly of components so far
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1803.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well well well, what have we here? Oh my, it looks like an AEB head? How much did it cost you ask? Why it was the best price of all FREE! I picked up a wrecked Passat for free from a local tire shop. All I had to do was tow it of there for him. So that means now I have a full AEB engine between the head and the shortblock I've been sitting on. At least I can take my time and get the entire engine built and put together before I pull the trigger and install the 60-1. Gotta love free head [>_<]

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/1305433662719.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/1305433674961.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/1305433682223.jpg

[Seerlah]

You have an 058? Good sh*t with the free engine, minus towing fees. You plan on placing drop in rods into the newly aquired engine and swapping it into your chasis?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Not even minus towing fees. My old man has a flat deck trailer we loaded it onto. Only thing that sucked was doing it in a rainstorm in a gravel/mud parking lot. As for the engine question, you got it pontiac. I'll put the rods in the short block, change out the exhaust valves in the head to stainless steel ones and change all the seals/timing gear etc... I'm also going to use the engine as a mockup to fabricate the manifolds, downpipe and get all the turbo lines set up before install. Hopefully that will eliminate as many headaches and downtime as possible.

[Seerlah]

I am pretty sure that block is going to get more than that. That's just how it goes[;)].

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, somehow I could see that happening. I would actually really like to put in a set of upgraded valve springs while it's apart. However it just depends on whether or not I can come up with another $400 to dump into this project. I have a feeling that even with the plans I have now that my finances are going to be stretched pretty thin with all the little extra "while I'm in there" stuff that will come up.

The other thing that I may buy instead of the upgraded valve springs is an IE intake cam. Personally I'd rather have something that will let me make more power up to 7500 RPM vis a vis 8500 RPM on the stock cams. I just get the feeling that once you start getting to those RPM's things like your accessories (i.e. alternator, PS pump etc...) aren't going to be happy. Not to mention your crankshaft and synchros.

[Seerlah]

The stock crank has seen some pretty high numbers. The syncros on the tranny is another story, though. But I guess it would really depend on your driving habits. And with that turbo, an intake cam will def help with spooling that sized turbo on our stock block.

I have been stretching my build (really, just a turbo kit, but I have a bunch of supporting mods that are unecessary,. but won't need to do it later on, like a Bosch 044 in take setup, high flow fuel rail, etc) for the longest time due to finanacial reasons also. Don't feel bad, it's expensive hobby and not all have excess money to dump into a vehicle that already serves it's true purpose. Getting you from point A to point B............in style[;)].

Also, sending you a PM

[ZimbutheMonkey]

It's not so much the actual power numbers on the crank as it is the fact that any imbalance you have on the crank, be it internal bearings or external like the crankshaft pulley start to add up at high, sustained revs. Also, weird harmonic things start happening if the crank isn't dampened properly. I know the Fluidampr pulley is a good solution, however it's close to $400 by the time it's shipped. Again, back to the money thing and trying to make my power before 7500 RPM.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I've come up with a bit of a new direction on the head build. There's this fellow, Bert, who runs a racing shop called Competition Services. My old man sent me over there one day to deliver a head to him and he took me on a tour of his shop and I've never seen so much tooling in one place in my life. Anyway, this guy is in his 70's and has probably been building race engines longer than 95% of us on this forum have been alive.

Having worked on some of these heads, his suggestion was to leave the intake side and do the porting on the exhaust. Interesting, seeing as a lot of the port work I see on these heads seems to concentrate on the intake side. Anyway, we spoke fairly briefly on the matter, but he said that he'll make sure to port in such a way as to keep the exhaust gas velocities high while opening up the exhaust side.

Anyway, I think it's a better use of the $400 than revving the engine out another 1000 RPM. With any luck I'll have it done within the next 2-3 weeks. I'll be sure to post some pics of the shop too if I get the chance while dropping off the head. I'm also going to be ordering a set of SCAT rods from him as well.

And here's a couple more pics just because.

Here you can see the number 3 cylinder exhaust port covered in oil
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-05-17221450.jpg

Also, there must have been some major hot temps on the #3 cylinder to cause this kind of discoloration on the manifold
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-05-17230425.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I pulled the head apart to the point where I could get the lifters out and by and large they look pretty good. Cam journals seem to be clean with no evidence of galling. The only exception was this lifter here on the number 1 cylinder (farthest to the firewall of the three valves on that cylinder) Anyone have any idea what would have caused this?

The timing gear was all good and there was no evidence of impact on a piston, so I don't think the valve was bent.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/AEBlifter.jpg

[A4drei]

Broken spark plugs?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well, I dropped the head off yesterday and we're going to see what we can do for porting work. Also ordered the rods as well. I'm just waiting on the stainless steel valves to come in before Bert pulls the head apart.

Here's some pics of the shop. I'm pretty sure most of his tooling was bought new (if that gives any indication as to how long he's been doing this)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1815.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1819.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1820.jpg

Cams and Crankshafts anyone?
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1814.jpghttp://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1822.jpg

Got the engine and wrecked head on the stand for mockup
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1824.jpg

I also managed to trip both feet up on the engine stand (one on the main support and the other on the cross support as I pitched forward), fell forward and landed first on my right hand which was cradling 15 lbs of 1/2 inch plate steel right on my knuckle joint. How I didn't shatter the joints on my middle fingers is beyond me. Between taking a tire iron to my orbital bone and not breaking it and this, I'm thinking I have a metal skeleton.
***note Bad Mother****** wallet in upper right corner, I think I've earned it with this one***

Here's what I dropped and the aftermath
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-05-24_2227421.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1834.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1833.jpg

Here's what it's sharing garage space with
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1825.jpg

Carbon steel piping I managed to pick up for $2 a piece (oilfield stuff with full metallurgical documentation no less)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1826.jpg

Using hose clamps to keep things in place while I get them fitted
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1827.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1828.jpg

Couple of misc shots
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1832.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1831.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So, got the hardest part of the fabrication process done for the manifold. I mocked up the turbine housing/collector and mapped out where the piping will go.

Here's a sneak peak as to what it will look like with the turbo mounted
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-05-26155741.jpg

Here's a shot of the brace that I used to mock up the turbine/collector. I just attached it to the threaded hole in the side of the head.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-05-26155800.jpg

Tacked piping, ignore the ghetto threaded parts. I was short on straight pieces and had to use them to get the layout. It will almost be a perfectly equal length setup. I'm only about an inch out between the inner and outer runners.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-05-26215348.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-05-26215411.jpg

[snowplau]

This build will be nuts man. Kudos

[AudiA4_20T]

looks slick

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Thanks for the motivation fellas. Truth be told, that means quite a bit coming from you guys. I've come to realize over the years that what these forums do is normalize our crazy plans to the point where you think "yeah..., yeah, I could do that". As we all know, the path usually isn't that straightforward. However, once you've committed, that's where you see the difference between the posers and the true enthusiasts who find a way to make it work. I'm looking forward to getting this one done. I'm just glad that I have a complete separate engine to work on, so I'm not in a hurry to get my car on the road.

[Seerlah]

Looks good, man[up]. Didn't know you had skills like that. I am the person who needs to buy his sh*t premade, or have someone else fabricate things. I have ideas, just not the skills to put it into action. Anyways, patiently waiting to see how things turn out. Hopefully, you don't run into too many obstacles. But, they are inevitable.

[Poopie]

i'm digging the manifold. what welder are you using?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Looks good, man[up]. Didn't know you had skills like that. I am the person who needs to buy his sh*t premade, or have someone else fabricate things. I have ideas, just not the skills to put it into action. Anyways, patiently waiting to see how things turn out. Hopefully, you don't run into too many obstacles. But, they are inevitable.

Thanks, we all had to start somewhere. Much like working on cars, I've learned through a million and one fuckups. If you have the means, pick up a 115 V MIG. They've cone down in price quite a bit and I've used them a lot over the years. Put it this way, I made my entire 3 in exhaust + test pipe and bungs for about $200-300. For what a full 3 in exhaust costs, you could recoup your costs in one shot.


i'm digging the manifold. what welder are you using?

Not 100% sure quite yet. I'm using the 115 V Miller MIG for the tacking. The old man picked up a new TIG welder about 6 months ago. I can make good welds with it and the stainless rod that I can use with it should play best with the carbon steel that I'm using. However I'm not as consistent with it as I am with the MIG. So I need to find out if there's any significant advantage to be gained by using the TIG stainless steel rod vs the standard MIG spool wire.

[eurojuce]

Sickness for sure, bro!!! You're gonna have a killer build...

[runvsofme07]

I like to see enthusiast going against the grain and running different turbos than the GTs.. good luck with the build looks like your building a top end monster!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I finally took the day off today to make some progress on the manifold. Here's the results, I'm pretty happy with it. I had a facepalm moment when I realized that it wasn't going to clear the frame rail. So I had to pull it apart and start over. In the end I had to tilt it in and back. The only bitch is going to be trying to run the oil return line. It really didn't leave me too much space.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1888.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1887.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1886.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1885.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1882.jpg

[eurojuce]

Aaaahhhhhhhhsssssssooooooommmmmeeeeeeee! I wish I had the skills to do things like this. Ur work looks good and its even cooler that ur doing it instead of just buying it...I'm a tinkerer, so I like getting my hands dirty. So I dig ur doing it urself!!!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well, made some major progress and after about a sum total of about 40-50 hours work, I present to you, my manifold. Not gonna lie, it was a lot of work. I can see where full race gets their pricing from. All in all though, I'm extremely happy with it. The walls are 5/16 in thick and the SOB weighs about 30 lbs so it will keep it's heat in, so that should help spool up some. I'm going to make up a turbo brace for it though. Next up, fabbing the downpipe and wastegate dump tube.

Couple notes on techniques I used to keep everything from warping. After welding inch to inch and half passes on alternating runners, I rigged up a plate out of C channel iron and boxed it in
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-17201643.jpg

Then tacked on the flange
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-17205813.jpg

And I drilled out holes for the flange bolts
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-17205414.jpg

From there, I took the flange off, re-tacked it to the rest of the manifold and bolted the SOB down.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-17225003.jpg

After some more welding I came out with this
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-18202835.jpg

Mounted with turbo, fu*k yeah!!!
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-18190852.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-18190924.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-18190910.jpg

[Seerlah]

Hot sh*t[up]. I would suggest a cometic gasket on the T3 flange or have them milled flat. I also picked up some extra extra high temp thread lock (the one 034 sells. went half on it with a person on here, to save on cost. So, I have a full eye drop container of it for $20) to not have the turbo nuts back off over time and basically cause a leak and have my gasket get burnt to sh*t. It's a very common issue. Just trying to give fair warning before it happens to you.

Do you know how the clearance is when mounted in the engine bay (ie spacing for intake)? Either way, good sh*t.

[Mantis]

Very nice

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Hot sh*t[up]. I would suggest a cometic gasket on the T3 flange or have them milled flat. I also picked up some extra extra high temp thread lock (the one 034 sells. went half on it with a person on here, to save on cost. So, I have a full eye drop container of it for $20) to not have the turbo nuts back off over time and basically cause a leak and have my gasket get burnt to sh*t. It's a very common issue. Just trying to give fair warning before it happens to you.

Do you know how the clearance is when mounted in the engine bay (ie spacing for intake)? Either way, good sh*t.

Thanks fellas, and for the heads up as well. Serlah, care to elaborate a bit on the gasket, can't say as I've ever heard of a cometic type. As for clearance in the engine bay, I'm praying that my mockup of the frame rail position was correct (knocks many times on wood). I gave myself some room for error, but until I get it into a vehicle I can't be 100% sure. Then again, it's not like I don't have a zip wheel and an arsenal of welders to fix my fuckups, nor will it be the first time [:p]

One more question to those reading this. I'm going to have a bitch of a time running my drain line as the drain hole is right between the runners. I know I can rotate it up to 15 degrees before I start running into problems. However, how long does it need to run straight down before I can put a bend in it? If I could put a 30-45 degree bend before it hits the runners then I'm laughing. Otherwise I have to run it between the runners and I'd rather not, if I can avoid it.

[Seerlah]

Cometic is basically "supposed" to be the best of the best of off the shelf gaskets. Other than having your flanges milled flat with no gasket or going with a straight custom cut gasket (from places like ER), this would be the only real viable option if you don't want things to go awry (ie peice of cheaper gasket coming apart and ending up in your turbine housing). Integrated Engineering sells them (just type in "Cometic" on thier search engine, and it will bring up a list), but they can also be sourced on places like ebay. But I would use only this brand gasket on the wastegate to manifold, turbo to manifold, and turbo to dp. It's these 3 sections that cause issues when running a larger sized turbocharger. But the GT28xx series don't seem to have that issue. And be sure to lock those turbo nuts down properly, by whatever method you choose (I chose the 034 threadlock route).

As for the oil drain, you can have a bend in it right on the CHRA port (ie 45* fitting). You just need to make sure that the oil will properly drain.

[Dan[FN]6262]

I have a 45* bend AN fitting on the bottom of my CHRA.


I was curious how much room you'll have with the shock tower for the downpipe.


Looks good though man [up]




Also, I'll reply to your email eventually, I've just been kinda busy and making a mani for myself is not a high priority haha

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Serlah, good to know about the gasket options and that I can run a 45 off the drain line. That makes my life much easier.

Dan, I should be able to sneak it by. It may be tight, but it should clear. I just need to remeasure and add that to the existing frame rail mockup that I had for the manifold construction.

BTW, does anyone have experience with running flex piping (segmented, not the braided kind) as their wastegate dump tubing? I picked up a length of galvanized tubing and was thinking of using it. Any compelling reason not to?

[Seerlah]

I have seen wastegate reroutes with the flex joint you are referring to. I don't see anything wrong with it, as it all serves the same purpose (not having the reroute crack or break). I guess it boils down to perferance on looks. But if you are going for a dump tube and not wastegate reroute, no need to get fancy. Just make a mandrel bent piping down from the wg with proper flange (38mm wastegate) down to the undercarriage away from objects (ie tires, motor mounts, lines, wires, etc).

Did you get to adding forged rods on the spare short block? I am really thinking about tackling this myself.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I got the downpipe and wastegate tacked on tonight. Holy crap It's finally starting to look like progress. Serlah, I'm hoping to pick up my rods tomorrow. I just need to find to buy rings, bearings, front/rear main seals etc... and I can get at doing the bottom end.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-20230931.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-06-20231052.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I got my hands on the SCAT rods and got around to popping the pistons out. Both the main and rod clearances seem bang on (checked the mains last year when I got it). However there seems to be some scuffing on the passenger side part of all four piston skirts.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/pistons4.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/pistons3.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/pistons2.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/pistons9.jpghttp://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/pistons7.jpg

Strange thing is that the driver side on all four are OK.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/pistons1-1.jpg

However, the cylinder walls show no evidence of scoring. There are some really light scratch marks on the cylinder walls (barely enough for my fingernail to register). However there is no actual scoring of the walls (i.e. you can't see any contrasting streaks down the cylinder walls if you shine a light on it.)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/pistons5.jpg

I guess the real tell will be what the bore and piston measurements are. If they're round and within spec, I'm not going to worry too much about it. There isn't any damage to the top of the pistons or on the landings, so maybe the scuffing is some cold start-up wear.

[Seerlah]

Nice to see things moving along. Expect some PMs from me while your build progresses, unless you want me to post them here. But they will be semi-noob questions. Like "What did you mean by the main and rod clearances seem spot on?". Which clearances are you referring to? I ask because I think I am going to go this same route, when funds permit.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Go ahead and ask away on the thread man. It's on the forum to educate others, well and also to stoke the shredded remains of what little ego I had left after my first year in law school (Hey, a guy has to feel like he's doing something right once in a while [;)]). In my mind there's no such thing as a stupid question (well, as long as it's not "what oil should I use in my 1.8T?") As for the clearances that I was referring to, I was talking about the clearances between the crankshaft and both the main (crankshaft to block) and rod (crankshaft to rod) bearing clearances.

[flynnr]

BTW, does anyone have experience with running flex piping (segmented, not the braided kind) as their wastegate dump tubing? I picked up a length of galvanized tubing and was thinking of using it. Any compelling reason not to?

This is what i use! It is slick. no issues ever so far... has never leaked or anything.

Those are old pictures. I will take one tonight to show how it has aged.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii155/flynnr1/e2558c3c.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii155/flynnr1/e2558c3c.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Perfect, thanks for the info. I figured it would be the easiest to run, especially if things get tight.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So long time no update, I've been busy playing mechanic to make money to play mechanic lol. I got some work done on the bottom end including a ball hone and am just waiting for UPS to deliver the rest of the upper end stuff (head gasket, timing belt etc...) to arrive today and then I'm going to head over to Comp services in the morning to install the valves (that's gonna be fuuuuunn)

Here's the mass of parts from my engine and the 98 Sebring (AKA Lucifer) that I'm replacing the head on.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-06172152.jpg

Engine block before paint
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-06204630.jpg

And after paint
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-06205733.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-06223707.jpg

SCAT rods
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-06223549.jpg

And the whole mess of parts up until now
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-06223745.jpg

[Seerlah]

Sending PM

[Dan[FN]6262]

whats up with the 16V head?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

That's Lucifer's head (the 2.4L Sebring I'm working on). The water pump piled up on it and shredded the timing belt (sound eerily familiar?).

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So a few more updates from the last few days. I got my head back from the rebuilders who put new exhaust guides in. I also got a shipment of parts and troublesome helper Kittehs from ECS tuning.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-07141113.jpg

New solid Stainless Steel valves (thank you Mr Dan)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-07224439.jpg

From there, I brought my head to Comp services where Bert was kind enough to let me use his equipment to put the valves back in. (sorry for the bad pics, my cell phone camera really didn't like the lighting in there)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-08093218.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-08133555.jpg

Here's the finished product
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-07224630.jpg

Then I got a little OCD and decided to paint all my accessory stuff.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-09195100-1.jpg

Here's a little sneak peak at what the finished product will look like. (if any of you are Rammstein fans, you can see Till Lindemann getting ready for a barbecue in the background [;)])
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-09194656.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-09194743.jpg

The only issue I'm running into now is trying to figure out if these marks on the pistons mean that they're screwed or not. Stay tuned for the thrilling conclusion [:p]
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-09_210638.jpg

[Seerlah]

I think that is a little burnt mark, that can be found througout the block, including the crank. Shit gets kind of hot in there, and things like this are expected. Not no expert, but if your cylinder walls check out, I would not think too much of it. Anything on any other parts except the piston(s)? I know my crank has some burnt marks, yet here I am boosting 19+psi on the stock turbo (checked when I dropped my pan). And still boosting happily, yet slow[drive].

[ZimbutheMonkey]

No, other than the scuffing from the cold starts that's pretty much the only unexplained set of markings in the entire bottom end. I'm hoping that it's not serious. However I guess if it is I'd rather know now than after getting the entire thing put together and then having to tear it all apart again.

[DustanS]

Awesome build man!! I'm stoked to see the finished product.

I met Ryan at secret street a couple weeks ago and he mentioned your build, so I had to check it out. I'm fairly new to building, but if you ever need a hand, let me know. I'd love to check this out sometime as I have intentions of a stroker build with a BAT on my AEB this winter.

[Seerlah]

As I previoudsy stated, I would not think too much of it. Shit gets hot in here (225*f). I would not say that unless I noticed burnt marks on many parts of the engine block, including block walls, oil pan, crank, etc. Just an observance, but I would not think too much of it. If scoring, that is a whole different issue (though don't see it possible in that location). Hopefully someone will chime in with more comforting words, or reasons that go against my own judgement. Just saying, I have burnt marks on various places (not severe, but ones like posted in the pic), and still boosting happily. Just an observance. But is it were me, I would not think too much of it. If you are that worried about it, weigh out the postons to see how much they differ from each others. Because that burnt mark really didn't do any damage. Guess you want to find out why that happened? My excuse is too hot of a block, while oil was not there at the tme. Good thing or bad thing, I have no idea. Or maybe non-full synthetic being used at the time. But yeah, I have a couple burnt marks throughout my engine, and that is why I did not think twice about it (obesrvance when pan dropped). My pan being the worse, so it got a thorough cleaning.

[XPK LINE]

crazy build!!!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So after two days of two steps forward, one step back, I've got the bottom end together. After talking with my buddy Lawrence, I decided to pull the pins out and size them to the rods. I ended up taking the end of a broom handle, putting it in the lathe and turning it down to about .002 in under the size of the wristpins and taking some 600 grit sandpaper and very very carefully took out just enough material out of the piston and rod so as to allow the wristpins to just slide through. Note, I would not recommend this to anyone without a lathe.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-10192212.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-10192232.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-10193400.jpg

Then I lubed up the crank, rods and pistons and threw them in.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-11161643.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-11200318.jpg

And voila, bottom end
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-11201433.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-11201412.jpg

*******NOTE: One thing I want to draw everyone's attention to is the #4 squirter. Make sure it's installed BEFORE you put in the crank, as it's blocked by the crankshaft position sensor once the crank is in. I overlooked it and had to pull the crank and two pistons when I realized I had forgotten to put it in.[headbang][headbang][headbang]*******
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-11200432.jpg

[Seerlah]

I know you talked it over with the person you trust for advice on your build, but did you really think it prudent to take material off the piston and rod? From the videos I watched on asembly and disassembly, it looked like effort ws needed to take the wristpin out of the stock rod and piston. And for assembly, looked like some finaggling was needed to put it back together. Just wondering, if maybe you should have just tried to place it back together without shaving material. It's too late now, but just wondering about negative long term affects? And I know it wasn't much material, but how much weight difference was there between each rod and piston, after the shaving was done?

[Don Supreme]

Looking good Bro.

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

T ** amazing project. Nevertheless, when I see this...
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1882.jpg

I can't help being reminded of this...
http://www.treehugger.com/flintstones-opening-scene.jpg

[Audi Skate Snow]

yeah buddy... coming together nicely. I did the light color block.. makes it easy to find leaks :)

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Funny you mention that. It's exactly the reason that I chose that color.

Seerlah, it's actually better for the rod. If it's stiff then it's hard on it during cold starts. Also, you can't really get a film of oil in there to lubricate things properly. Just think journal bearing turbo. You need a little bit of space for the oil to form a boundary layer, otherwise you end up running metal on metal until it wears to the point where oil can get in there. Problem is, you can't control how it wears. Maybe it'll wear even, but it could wear out of round. At least if you do it by hand, you can control the removal to some degree.

Note that I wouldn't recommend clearanceing the rods in that manner unless you had the means to make a tool that's only a few thou under the rod bore. Also, you need to be good with your hands to remove the material evenly. Seven years of prepping sled steels as a Luge athlete/coach gives you a pretty good sense of what you're taking out though [;)]

[ZimbutheMonkey]

T ** amazing project. Nevertheless, when I see this...
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1882.jpg

I can't help being reminded of this...
http://www.treehugger.com/flintstones-opening-scene.jpg

LOL ing [:D] BTW, how are things coming along with the F23? I see a lot of potential with that one.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Oh, I forgot to mention, I found Black Betty's own theme song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU1wLryjuEw

Check the translation here and you'll see why it makes sense.
http://en.affenknecht.com/lyrics/rammstein-ich-tu-dir-weh-lyric-with-english-translation/

(in fact, I'd say that anyone who owns a heavily modified Audi can relate)

[Seerlah]

Oh, I forgot to mention, I found Black Betty's own theme song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU1wLryjuEw

Check the translation here and you'll see why it makes sense.
http://en.affenknecht.com/lyrics/rammstein-ich-tu-dir-weh-lyric-with-english-translation/

(in fact, I'd say that anyone who owns a heavily modified Audi can relate)


I am starting to learn more and more why Emo kids exist. Ok, that was bad...................but I sort of meant it.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Nah, emo music is sad and whiny. These guys make music that grabs you by the throat and shakes you like a British nanny (but in a good way [>_<]). That's the beauty of singing in German. They could be singing about how sunshine makes Kittens happy and they'd still sound pissed off.

[SleeperAvant]

Holy hell, how did I miss this thread! Great stuff!

[Milburn]

Very clear and useful pics,.
Really useful one for many others,. thanks for the sharing,

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Thanks, I have some pics of how I went about priming the lifters that I'll post up in a bit.

******Also, I have another Neddy no no that I'd like to draw to everyone's attention. If you prime the lifters yourself, there's a 99% chance that you'll have some that are more pumped up than they would normally be. What I did to bleed them down is to put them in the head and bolt the cams down. Whatever you do, 1) If you have the head on the block, make sure that none of the pistons are at TDC as the valves have no place to go. 2) Do not put both cams in at the same time. You run the risk of having exhaust valves interfering with the intake valves if they're both extended at the same time. You'll need to give one side about 30 min to bleed down and then install the other cam.********

This may seem common sense, however when you're doing it at 10 PM, you'd be surprised at what slips past your mind. I didn't do a #2, but my piston almost kissed the middle intake valve. The only thing that saved my ass were the relief cuts in the middle of the piston.

[Seerlah]

Another PM coming your way[cool]

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I finally got the Sebring (AKA: Lil' Lucie AKA Lucifer) out of the garage and made some good progress on the build today. I got the cams in and the head bolted down. So I'm about 90% done. Now I just need to get all the accessories fitted and get the oil/coolant lines run to the turbo.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-17214019.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-17214009.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-17214002.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-17212717.jpg

Here she is with most of her gear on
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/almostfinishedengine.jpg

Also, anyone have any idea what goes in this hole? I only had one half circle with my kit and I put it in the other hole (the blue one on the left)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-07-172215301.jpg

[Seerlah]

The valve cover gasket has a part on it that fills that half moon. That blue half moon should have been with your cam tensioner gasket, which I assume it was.

Progess looks really good[up]. On good news with my turbo kit, just picked up a Greddy intercooler in the classified section. Need to order the ER test pipe for the PSi Concept manifold, intercooler piping (till I can get a legit one fabbed up), and I can install my sh*t[drive]. Going to do rods when I do my TB.

Anyways, you decide how you going to break that baby in? I also suggest take a straw and place oil in the turbo before placing fitting on. Of course prime the turbo by cranking engine (not turning it over), but the straw part is like extra insurance. And even though it is a journal bearing turbo, you still may want to use a restrictor. Extra insurance.

[Seerlah]

You know, just realised how big of a turbo that is. With the tubular manifold on a 60 trim, your full spool is going to be rather late. But at least you have eveything setup to switch to whatever turbo you want later on. Also realised how close that compressor housing is to your runner. Hope you have a really good intercooler setup, or just a decent one with meth to cool the IATs. But meth should be on your "to do list" anyways. Heat wrap is also a good thing to consider.

[bmarshall]

Nice job. Will you modify the inlet manifold plenum size? These motors get very carboned up, mine had as much as yours. You should have slapped a set of main bearing studs in there for strength. I spent a good few months on and off polishing and reshaping the cylinder head bowls especially around the valve seats and removing sharp edges. I also spent a lot of time cleaning and polishing the exhaust port and a little on the inlet port.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Serlah, I'm not 100% sure how much later full spool would be on this one vis a vis, say an ATP log manifold. The equal length runners and the point in the collector will go a long way towards keeping the exhaust pulses separated. Also, the piping thickness is about 8mm thick. That'll retain more heat in the exhaust than any tubular stainless manifold will. Finally, I've already got the W/M thing covered and I'm running a Mishimoto G line which is about the size of a suitcase. So plenty of cooling already.

Bmarshall, I'm probably not making enough power to warrant ARP main studs. Other than maybe rattling loose, I don't know that I've ever heard of anyone snapping a main bearing bolt or getting crank walk from making too much power. I'd say that unless you're shooting for 500+ AWHP you'd be fine without them. Regarding the porting, I was going to get some done on the exhaust side, however my finances dictated that it wasn't going to happen. I could have done it myself, however I'm reluctant to do so. It's easy to bugger up unless you know exactly what you're doing. 1) there isn't a lot of casting material left on the AEB heads to begin with and 2) unless you have a flow bench to measure your gains, you could actually make things worse.

[Seerlah]

Any update?

[Dan[FN]6262]

you have nothing to worry about as far as spool with that tubular manifold. I'm running the crappy ass SPA mani, which is a HORRIBLE design for exhaust flow, with my 6262 and I see 30psi very shortly after 5k rpms.



LOL like a week after I sent you those valves, my friend called me (brettj20 on here) and was like "I think my timing belt just broke..."

sure enough his timing belt tensioner failed and it bent all the exhaust valves. I was like "that sucks dude, I just sold those exhaust valves that I had laying in my basement!"

[SleeperAvant]

5857;6715252']you have nothing to worry about as far as spool with that tubular manifold. I'm running the crappy ass SPA mani, which is a HORRIBLE design for exhaust flow, with my 6262 and I see 30psi very shortly after 5k rpms.


We should get an Agtronic tubular T3 manifold and downpipe combo :)

[Dan[FN]6262]

We should get an Agtronic tubular T3 manifold and downpipe combo :)

that would be BADASSery, but I don't have the $$$$$$$$$$$ for that lol

[AudiA4_20T]

5857;6717307']that would be BADASSery, but I don't have the $$$$$$$$$$$ for that lol

but you have 4.2 money! lol

[Dan[FN]6262]

but you have 4.2 money! lol

its called priorities!! and sush your face. that's secret business.

[SleeperAvant]

lol

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Any update?

Not much to speak of. Kinda got sidelined with the Vegas trip and now I'm in Vancouver for a week. However the engine is pretty much together. I just need to put the front/rear main seals in, shave the end of the crank to make it compatible with my 5 speed, and run my coolant/oil lines to the turbo. I just realized that I don't think I can put the timing belt on until I get the lower rear portion of the timing cover on, and that will need to come from the engine in the car. As for the downpipe, I'm not committing to anything until I get the engine in the car.

Long story short though is that it's pretty much ready to roll. Now I just need to invent some time to get it done. I'm hoping for mid August. End of August at the latest, since I have to be back in school.

Edit: here's a shot of the engine as it stands
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/justaboutdoneengine.jpg

[SleeperAvant]

Coming along nicely.

[bw86]

Awesome build. [up][up]

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Thanks for the encouragment fellas [up] I had a little time to work on things, so I figured I'd finish up the exhaust manifold today. I was going to put a single EGT bung in by the collector, but then I got to thinking, "hell, I made this manifold, why not put individual ports in, since I can?" So I did. Now I can check individual cylinders if I feel the need. It will work well with my EGT gauge since it's a dual gauge. If I have a problem with one of the cylinders, now I can measure the EGT's at that one against a control measurement from a second runner.

All I did was get some NPT female inserts and plugs from Gregg's distributing, cut them in half to keep the profile down and welded them in.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-05153557.jpg

I found a drill bit was a good way to keep everything in line while I tacked them.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-05131316.jpg

Then I painted the mani and turbine housing (outside only on both) in some VHT Ceramic/Silica header paint (supposedly good for 1300-2000F) and bolted it back on. Next mission is going to be dowelling the crank sprocket. I'll try and take some pics of whatever process I use to get it done.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-05182712.jpg

[Seerlah]

Good call with the bungs. I want an EGT sensor for my setup, but don't know where to put it. I talked to Winston (Podi) about it, and he said he will get back to me about it. But he said, that if I place it in the downpipe, it won't show much of a difference in EGTs. But I know that the most heat the exhaust seen is around the flange upwards of a couple inches to the turbo on the manifold around the 2nd and 3rd collector, so eh. From infra red screen pics I have seen, that area is the hottest as compared to the rest. And I can't tap my PSi manifold, for warranty purposes. I already ported it, but Jeff said he will still keep good with the lifetime warranty with me. So, that's a plus. Tapping it I am pretty posotive he will void any warranty I have. I know I would void it if I were in that position.

Also, you sure that is cermaic paint? I have my manifold thermal painted, and really want to get it sent out for an official ceramic coating along with hotside to my turbo. I have found no shops in my city that does it. As shady as it sounds, I found an ebay ad (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CERAMIC-COATING-Turbo-Housing-Garrett-Precision-HKS-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem53e85aef2bQQitemZ36038 0559147QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries) with a shop from Detroit, MI that has a fair price. I been meaning to send an email to them on a quote for my manifold and turbo exhaust housing, but have been reluctant. But if I were you, I would def look into have yours proefessionally cermaic painted. I have mine thermal painted and am now looking into having it professionaly cermaic coated.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I can't say for sure how the paint will work out. It does say on the side of the can "Ceramic/Silica paint", so I guess I'll take them at their word. I've been very happy with the VHT caliper paint, so I figured I'd give the header paint a try. Worst case scenario, if it starts flaking off I'll just pop the manifold and turbine housing off, put them in the glass beading cabinet and take the finish off.

That said, I did give the manifold and turbine housing a thorough cleaning in the glass beader, so I'm hoping that getting the surfaces prepped properly will help the paint adhere properly.

[Seerlah]

It isn't really about the looks, but the function of the coating to keep engine bay temps down and retain heat inside the manifold and/or turbo for faster spool. Mine looks really good, but not quite sure about function over form. That is the only reason I suggested getting yours professionally cermaic coated. I had mine like this for a couple months now. And after a couple months now of it simply looking pretty and me constantly questioning if it will perform, I really want to get it professionally done. Granted, my kit isn't even installed yet and I have been scourging all over my city looking for a shop to cermaic coat it. I have only found professional powder coaters, and none of them do exhaust items in ceramic coating.

Just my personal feeling towards it, as I had mine preofessionally thermal coated by a professional painter. He charged me peanuts for it, because he was a regular on my route when I delivered for Fed Ex. But after a couple months, you may start to have the mind process I now have over it...or not! Just trying to save you from the questioning before you actually install it and have the manifold run through it's first heat cycle.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

OK, I see where you're going with this now. I'm not really too concerned with trying to keep the underhood temps down by way of coatings. At present I have my high flow KKK flanged manifold professionally ceramic coated and I don't see a whole lot of difference in terms of heat retention. The main reason that I had it done was because I bought a $90 Chinese ebay manifold to replace my second POS $350 034 one that cracked.

I figured that if I could add the ceramic coating as a buffer to smooth over some of the more severe thermal loads that it might help it last longer. That said, so far my cheapo China manifold has lasted longer than my second 034 one did (knock on wood). I also made a little mount that braces the manifold to the head. Which I'm sure has helped matters.

Anyway, given the thickness of the piping that I used, heat retention should be pretty good. I may still wrap the manifold in header wrap and find some kind of turbo blankie just to keep the heat off the hood paint though.

[Seerlah]

I was reading that turbo blankets wrap the flanges on the turbo over time, but not sure if that only pertains to people who track their car and are constantly in boost or regular dd drivers who like spirited sprits. But exhaust wrap is def a really good alternative. I can't wrap my header, because of the design of the manifold. But you can def wrap yours easily.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So, I pulled the trigger today... I've gotten as far as getting the entire front off the car and test fitting everything. Here's the setup before going under the knife.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1993.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN1994.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2004.jpg

Elim out
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2008.jpg

More filthy engine bay
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2009.jpg

The moment of truth, and it fits!!!!!! It was a bitch to get past the studs though, so I'm going to convert to bolts. That'll give me plenty of room to get it in.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2010.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2014.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2015.jpg

Downpipe fits too
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2020.jpg

I'm going to need to take this plastic off though and possibly make a dent in the frame rail to clear the bottom of the wastegate flange
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2022.jpg

I've got quite a bit of room in front for the intake
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2023.jpg

Some pics of the turbos side by side
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2035.jpg

I decided to go black on the valve cover to break things up a bit. That and it's easier to keep clean.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/DSCN2041.jpg

[CamrideA4]

Nice! It's funny to see that nice new turbo in that nasty engine bay. [:d]

[Dan[FN]6262]

looking good

[Seerlah]

Nice! It's funny to see that nice new turbo in that nasty engine bay. [:d]

haha

Yeah, man. That engine bay needs a good desgreasing.

[martianbooby]

subscribing... this whole thread is awesome!!!
great work man... ( im jelly)

[ZimbutheMonkey]

haha

Yeah, man. That engine bay needs a good desgreasing.

Yeah, I was thinking of cleaning it at one point, but I was just too damn lazy. That's the problem when you know you're going to be tearing the engine out. You just get to the point where you don't care because you know you're going to be doing it down the road anyway.

[SleeperAvant]

Awesome! What are those bolts you have on each runner on the tubular exhaust manifold for?

[Seerlah]

^Referr to post #102. Bungs for separate EGT sensors with plugs in them.

[SleeperAvant]

Thanks Seerlah

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Engine's out and the new one is getting close to completion. I've got some pics of the build and a bit of a DIY on how to dowel the crank. I'll post them up in the next bit. I'm just friggin' bagged at the moment (just got home from the garage).

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well, Zimbu's been a busy little monkey lately...
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-09233246.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-09233414.jpg

And, as promised here are the doweling pics.

Basically, what I did was drilled a hole in the crank sprocket with a drill press to insure that it was as straight as possible
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-09150055.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-09150626.jpg

I then took the sprocket and installed it on the end of the crank and held it in place with an old crank bolt that I had cut a portion out of to let me drill through the hole. I then drilled through the sprocket hole and drilled down to the point where I had just about bottomed the pin out (I did this by drilling/checking, but you could also measure it out)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-09152723.jpg

Now, at this point I decided to finish it by very very carefully touching it up with an abrasive wheel on an air grinder (note, make sure you've cordoned off any area of the engine that could get grit from the wheel in it)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-09153747.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-09153817.jpg

And this is what you're left with
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-09153946.jpg

From there, re-install the crank sprocket and torque it down.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So, fun fact. As I'm $40 away from having to start man whoring, I was trying to piece together an oil/coolant line set as cheap as I could and I accidently found a way to retain the stock oil pan hard line flange. Turns out if you cut the braided line right at the crimped portion of the hard line, it's a perfect fit for a 3/8th NPT thread. I tapped it with a 3/8 NPT tap and from there, I put some teflon tape on my -8AN Aeroquip fitting and screwed it in. It seems to be a solid fit, go figure. So with any luck, this will save me another $50 in flanges and fittings for that end.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/-8ANfitting1.jpg

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/-8ANfitting2.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Made some progress in the last few days, mainly piddly little details. However I made a pretty significant assault on it today.

Here she is, finally ready to come off the engine stand
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-14122907.jpg

Because I couldn't get to the back on account of the engine stand, I waited until now to shave the tiptronic crank snout to accept the pilot bearing. Yeah I know this may look a little like overkill on the masking tape (to keep the grit out). However paranoia has assumed uncontested control over my head for the forseeable future.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-14130939.jpg

The two halves ready to go together
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-14144230.jpg

FU*CK YEAH!!!!!!
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-14145808.jpg

[Seerlah]

Haha. That's a lot of work, man. When you think it willbe fully ready for start and break in? Who is going to do your tuning?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Haha. That's a lot of work, man. When you think it willbe fully ready for start and break in? Who is going to do your tuning?

Come hell or high water I want it up and running before the 25th. I'm going to my Baba's place for a week and then I'm back in school, so I need the machanical stuff done by then. Tuning will be done by yours truly with a 630CC Maestro file, a butt dyno and Android dyno app. While I'm not planning on relying on it for absolute numbers, if I can make sure the location and other variables are as consistent as possible, it'll probably be a useful little tool.

[Seerlah]

Hey, I have a question. Do you know of any reliable and effective device that can show ignition timing with a small gauge located somewhere in the cabin? I am sure it would need to be hooked up to the OBD II port to work. But I think that would be a really cool, and more importantly, usefull gauge. Something along the lines of how those Blitz TT gauges are really small, compact, and can be placed anywhere.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well, I said I'd have that engine in by today and I was good to my word. While the pics may have been posted at 1:00 AM, they were taken at 11:30. [up]

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-14233549.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-14234902.jpg

Pretty friggin' good for a first try and having to use a tape measure and three pieces of 2x6 wood for my mockup. I'm going to have to do some cut and trimming on both the collector discharge and the frame rail. I'm hoping that I can keep the frame rail trimming to a minimum. But hey, who needs a frame rail anyway [;)]
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-14233606.jpg

[SleeperAvant]

So sexy, that turbo.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yes, if I can remember to charge my camera I'll try and do her a little more justice. As for my wastegate issue, I think I've got it solved. As I was sitting, staring at this flange, thinking how the hell to get it to fit, it came to me "why the hell do I need a flange anyway?" So I cut it off, left the tubular portion on the side of the collector and I'll just weld a 90 deg bend to it, fit a flange to the other end for the wastegate and do away with the middle flange (the one immediately off the collector) altogether. One of the advantages to doing your own fab work yourself I guess.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

There we go, still need to clean the welds up a bit and paint it, but you all get the idea.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-16102240.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-16102304.jpg

[Seerlah]

What WG is that?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Turbonetics Deltagate MkII

[Seerlah]

You consider the ICM delete with FSI coils and adapters? Should make things run much smoother with your application.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I did, and probably will. I have a full ME7 harness, so I have the wiring. However I just don't have the money at the time.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Wastegate disharge welds have been cleaned up and the downpipe is tracked together. Just need to weld in the bungs and dump tube.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-18005240.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-18005143.jpg

[bw86]

sweet, can't wait to hear it run

[snizza]

Wow! Put some video of the first start!

[Mantis]

Monkey Man needs some better fucking pics, since his wife is a photojournalist this shouldn't be such a big issue dontcha think

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Keep that up and I'll have to post up those pics of you in the duck suit., or better yet, how about the noodle incident, hmmm....?????

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well boys and girls, I've finished all the exhaust side work. I'm really happy with how it all turned out. In the end I went with hard piping and a braided flex joint. The re-entry point for the wastegate gas worked out quite nicely as well. Nice shallow angle which equates to about a 6 in long slot for it to re-enter.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8190006.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8190005.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8190008.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8190010.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8190011.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8190013.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8190014.jpg

[Seerlah]

Be sure to throw some anti-seize on those EGT plugs. Looking good!

[csosnowski]

looks awesome [up]

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Got most of the intake fabbed up today and bought an oil pressure gauge. My turbo inlet piping took on a bit of an artistic bent. I didn't really have a plan for what I wanted. I just decided to start cutting/welding and see what came out. And here it is

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20182237.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20182301.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20183126.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20183137.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20190445.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20190456.jpg

After hours of grinding/welding/grinding/welding this is what came out
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20203433.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20203445.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20203454.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20215945.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20220009.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20220029.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20220211.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-08-20230434.jpg

[Seerlah]

If having the filter there, you should invest in a water repellant pre-filter. I have one for my Injen filter. It won't help you out at all if the filter is submerged in water, but will def repell any water spray from being sucked into the intake. And as always, looking good!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing too. And as always, thank you very much [up]

[Oceanside]

GOING to be close with the fans.. Make sure you make a brace for the intake so it doesn't hit anything moving... Great work so far

[diabolical1]

very impressive work you've done. impressive, indeed.

[SleeperAvant]

You could always use the AEM pre-filter that is water-repellant.

http://chrispaltzat.com/images/avant/build/3.5MAF/3.5inch%20MAF%20upgrade-08.jpg

[Seerlah]

Also, it's kind of close to the AC compressor, no?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well, I did a dry start on it today and it runs. Not very well, but it ran. Took a while for the lifters to pump up, but they did eventually. However the cam chain tensioner seems to be iffy. I may have to swap my old one in. However I'm out of town for a week so it'll have to wait until I get back.

Also, I need to replace my cam sprocket. The 06A one I got doesn't line up with the rest of my timing gear so the timing belt is only 2/3 on the sprocket.

Here are pics that aren't cell phone ones.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8240002.jpg

Intercooler piping
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8240009.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8240005.jpg

More misc shots
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8240006.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8240004.jpg

Jury rigged catch can
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/P8240008.jpg

[Seerlah]

What engine code do you have? And is that turbo both water and oil cooled?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

AEB and yes it is, it was just missing a cooling line on the one side in that shot.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So update, I got back on track today and swapped out the cam belt sprocket. As you can see in the above pics, the sprocket was about a half inch offset, relative to the belt and the rest of the timing gear.

********Couple of things to note here**********

********058 and 06A cam sprockets are NOT interchangable. As you can see here, the 06A sprocket has a spacer that the 058 one doesn't. **********
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-01203202.jpg

*******THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!*********** The 058 cam belt sprocket has two sides to it, one with writing and one without. The 058 AEB engine needs to have the side WITHOUT WRITING facing forward. If you try and install it with the writing facing forward, two things will happen:

1) Your timing will be off by three teeth. Both sides have timing marks, but they are NOT in the same locations. As you can see here, when you put them side by side, the marks are off by three teeth. This is what was causing my issues a while back when I was complaining that I couldn't get the timing between the cam belt sprocket and the cam chain sprockets to synch.

2) You will break the key off. As you can see, the key has a sloped 45 degree portion that is meant to mate with the other 45 degree portion of the cam. If you tighten it down with the 90 degree portion of the cam key on the 45 degree portion of the cam keyway you will have interference with the fit and it will go "ting" and snap off like it did on me.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-01182806.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-01182908.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-01182923.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Sooo, made some good progress but no real pics to show yet. Installed the BOV, ran most of the coolant lines, cleaned up and loomed all the wiring, catch can done, and a bunch of other piddly little things. Pretty much all that's left is to get the front end on and stitch up the suspension. If all goes as planned she'll be up and running tomorrow (knock on wood).

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Car started, ran great off boost, compressor self destructed, FML, FML...

[Wet0willy01]

[o_o] sorry to hear. Sucks when things go wrong after all that work. In a similar scenario right now.

[demonmk2]

ouch, sorry for the bad news man. do you know exactly what caused it?

[Dan[FN]6262]

that fucking sucks

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Thanks guys, I'm just in a state of numb shock. I drove myself into the ground working 10-12 hours a day straight for the last 30 days between this and my other work to try and get this fucking thing running before school started and this just threw me for a loop. I'm hoping that the engine and everything else is alright. There appear to be two sections of fin tip missing and three other blades appear to be bent back. So I'm hoping that the shrapnel was minimal as opposed to a situation where the blades ground themselves to pieces.

I'm debating whether or not to go out and do a post mortem today. On one hand I want to know what the fuck happened, but on the other hand I'm afraid that if I saw the goddamn thing I'd roll it out of the garage and light it on fire.

[colony7]

as long as the wheel broke in large pieces the intercooler should have stopped them. if they did turn to powder, you should just have to pull your head off and clean the tops of the pistons and rotate the cams to make sure no pieces are stuck behind the valves. assuming you didnt drive it very far or at all when you realized what happened

[Seerlah]

FOD? I still have my turbo saran wrapped with zip ties (really, a thick clear plastic bag I have zip tied closed) to make sure nothing gets in or out. Sucks to hear, man.

Makes me also think that putting a screen over the intercooler end tank inlet would be a good practice. People don't think of this happening. But it does.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Colony 7, it doesn't look like the blades fragmented too bad or ground themselves up, so offhand I'm hoping that there was nothing that got into the engine. It actually runs really well and idles fine. I think I'd probably feel it in terms of performance if a valve wasn't seating properly (or at least I sure hope I would)

Seerlah, I don't think it was FOD from the intake tract. There was only the filter, MAF, and that metal inlet that I made. Plus it's all vertical. So there's not really much that could have gotten in. I think it was metal fatigue exacerbated by my trying to massage two of the compressor fins back to their original positions.

[Dan[FN]6262]

just push it into traffic. [:)]

[AEB]

.[:(].

[jaychen]

That sucks, whats next then in terms of turbo choice?

[SleeperAvant]

Damn, that effing sucks. So sorry to hear, Zimbu.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Thanks guys, I pulled the turbo yesterday and I think I've come to a tentative conclusion as to what caused the failure. I think I managed to accidently leave a small piece of silicone coupler loose in the intake tract and it hit the compressor. Reason I think that is because there was a whole bunch of fuzz in the piping between the compressor discharge and the intercooler. I'm assuming that it's shredded coupler lining. Anyway, pulled the turbo apart and ran the turbine shaft on a dial indicator and it looked to be straight. So it's at Alamo industries getting looked at and I should probably know within the day whether or not it's rebuildable.

[Seerlah]

So, maybe just a new compressor wheel and rebalance?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Unfortunately no, it's looking like there had been some shaft scoring from an oiling issue. I don't know whether or not it was from me or the previous owner however. Anyway, it's a moot point in that respect as I'll need to get it machined down and have a set of oversized bearings put in. Total cost is going to be about $800 for a rebuild. I'm debating whether or not to go with the rebuild on this one or get a new CHRA and turbine housing from Jess at usedturbos.net he came in way under Alamo's price, however with shipping and such it'll be close to the $800 by the time it lands at my door.

So stay tuned for the thrilling conclusion...

[snizza]

hope you don't give up and finish your project man.

[Seerlah]

For $800, I would go a whole different route. I don't know what type of powerband you are looking for, but for that price you can get a setup that hits full spool around the 4k mark (give or take) vs 4.5k. Below is a link to where I picked up my turbo from. Best prices I could find, and they offer free shipping (not sure about Can). Might want to take a gander, as they have T Series Journal bearing for some good prices (oil cooled). You can even opt for the PTE Billet Journal bearing units (not sold on that website), which I think would also be a better alternative.

http://www.evans-tuning.com/ecommerce/turbos/garrett

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I ended up ordering a CHRA and turbine housing from Jess at pureturbos.com I got the CHRA and housing for $525. I've always found he has the best prices on just about anything.

[Seerlah]

Good deal. I just thought you were going to pick up a whole other turbo for $800, when you could have picked up a brand new oil cooled 60-trim for cheaper. Waiting for updates.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Waiting to see if it ships today. I made a mistake in telling Jess that this was a Hi-fi (turns out it's a regular 60-1 in a t04E housing) so it may set the shipping back a day. Luckily I clued in over the weekend and sent him some pics of my turbo and caught the mistake before it was fully assembled/shipped.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well, hats off to Jess at http://www.pureturbos.com/store/ I got my new 60-1 CHRA and turbine housing. With any luck I'll have things together by Friday.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-14165323.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-14165313.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-14165123.jpg

Kablooied compressor
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-12184414.jpg

Some misc intercooler piping shots since I had to pull them off
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-09-12184347.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Well, it's been 16 hours straight it's 4am , I'm beat to shit and dirty as a Frenchman, but dammit she runs!!!!!!! I haven't had much chance to really play with her as I'm getting compressor surge when I let off the throttle, so I'm trying to minimize my over 5 PSI pulls. But I did one at 14 PSI and holy shit did it move! When I get it up and running right, this thing is going to be devastatingly fast.

[Seerlah]

By compressor surge, you mean the blow back from the TB messing with the current in the charge pipe? What dv/bov you using and where is it located on your charge pipe? But on the brighter note, good sh*t[drive]. As you already know,been watching this thread for a while. How's your LS mod coming along?

[xdewaynex]

Awesome to hear you got it together and running. I believe I have the same surge problem as you described, when I let off the throttle quickly with high boost, I get a little buck.

[Seerlah]

You guys thinking moving the dv/bov closer to the throttle body would fix it?

[SleeperAvant]

In my opinion the DV should be as close to the turbo as possible to help decrease the time it takes for the charge air to be ventilated away from the turbo.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

First off, thanks guys. It's been great having the support of other enthusiasts. Believe me, it's a great motivator to know that people are watching and pulling for you. Like I said earlier, it's guys like you that give me the inspiration to go out and take on a job like this. So hats off to you all [up]

Second, as for the surge it's when I let off the throttle and I get that 'awesome wastegate sound' that ricers with dying turbos seem to love. Third, I'm actually running a hybrid setup where I have a turbosmart BOV about 10 inches off the compressor discharge and an N710 DV about 12 inches from the throttle body.

I'm wondering if the hose I have on my DV is too narrow and not allowing it to work properly. I'm going to get some larger ID vac line and try it out. As for the BOV, I don't know what's up with it. I have it on it's loosest setting and it still doesn't want to work. It's possible that the sliding piston is caught up in the bore. However I used a thin layer of that Mobil1 red synthetic grease so it should slide. I'm going to look into it as a first order of business. However I need to clean up the garage before my old man kills me. It looks like a tropical earthquake hit it.

Anyways guys, I'll keep you all posted.

[Dan[FN]6262]

Nice tube mani. [:D] lmao.



I get a little bit of compressor surge if I don't boost more than like 8psi and let off the throttle. But I have a 25+psi spring in my BOV

[ZimbutheMonkey]

It's seemed to have gotten better when I replaced the vac lines with the next size up and re-routed the BOV to a more direct and better vacuum source (that nipple underneath the throttle body).

Got some more seat time in it though. I'll have to admit that my complete lack of self control has put me in the "drive it like you stole it" break in group lol. Well, not completely, I'm trying to alternate vacuum with pressure. So kinda been doing pulls and then just letting it coast down in the next gear.

I haven't run it past about 14 PSI, but holy s*it does it pull. Having never ran anything larger than a 2860 it's a bit of a different feel for sure. Boost ramps up, but there's no real spike. It just feels like the car starts pulling harder and harder until I let off the throttle. Although it may be down on torque vs a GT2860, it feels like it's making the same HP at 14 PSI as my GT did at 21-22 PSI.I'm going to give it a little more time before I start wringing it out past 6500. I'll probably set 7200 as my target max and 7500 as the fuel cutoff. Even with this .48 housing I feel like this thing would rev clean to 8500. Oh well, just another reason to start saving for valvesprings.

Some shots of the final product
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/IMG_3860.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/IMG_3861.jpg

And, the car it went into
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/IMG_3862.jpg

[Dan[FN]6262]

I broke mine in on 18psi and 7.5k rpms on my 5857

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, PSI, especially on the 60-1 really means nothing in terms of comparing output with different turbos. A similar setup in Calgary, at 3500 ft, on a small port head dynoed at about 330-350 AWHP. Funny thing is that these turbos seem to top out at 21-22 PSI. However they'll flow close to 60 lb/min doing it.

The only conclusion that I can come to is that the 60-1 is at it's best on a high volumetric efficiency setup. You probably stand to either gain or loose a substantial amount of power depending on if there are any bottlenecks in your engine and charge system.

The only potential choke points that I can identify on my car are a) the turbine housing and b) the stock intake manifold. I'm not willing to go to a .63 A/R as it lags enough as it is at my elevation. That, and the 4 bolt .48 A/R is quite a bit larger than a 5 bolt Ford one. Looking at pics of the two, the .63 A/R housing really isn't that much larger. That, and with my revs being capped at 7500 RPM, I don't think I'll be out flowing the .48 one.

The intake mani on the other hand, could pose an issue. The kinda good news is that my stock throttle body is starting to shit the bed on me so I may as well upgrade. I think I'm going to go ahead with my plans of ordering some D channel and making a larger one like the Apikol design. I just need to get a definitive answer as to which 6 cylinder throttle body to use. The VR6 one or the V6 30V one.

[Seerlah]

How much did all this set you back, cost wise? Because that is the only thing really holding me back from completing mine (still unemployed). Also, I seen an R32 throttle body being sold in the classified for cheap, but not in the best condition. But function over form, and the price is def agreeable. I would do that and send in an AEB IM to Apikol to have them make me a unit (Mike Hood may be able to get you a slight discount). Unless you are going to fab your own plenum with velocity stacks?

http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=57823&title=r32-75mm-throttle-body&cat=21
https://www.apikol.com/#Products,Engine,104

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Cost wise, it added up pretty fast. I'm going to wager it ended up in the neighborhood of about $3500, maybe more. Also, that's not counting the cost of my $650 turbo mistake. As well, I already had half this stuff for either free (i.e. couplers, steel bends, t-bolts, AEB head) or next to free (i.e. engine block). And, I literally did 99% of my own labor. If I had a shop do this exact setup, I'd have been looking at well into $7000 or more. Pretty much double the cost I imagine.

If you don't have a steady income stream then do not attempt it, at least not a custom one like this. The problem is that there are soooo many parts that will nickle and dime you to death. For example, the $150 that I spent on oil and coolant lines. Then there's the inevitable $20 daily trip to the local fastener shop for fittings that you didn't realize you needed, and so on and so forth....

That said, if you really want to go ahead on a fixed income do it as cookie cutter as you can. I know that I bemoan that a lot, however you would be a case of someone who it would work well for. At least in that case, you know all your costs upfront and you can acquire the gear in stages. PSi Concepts oil/coolant supply lines comes to mind. Buy them, then buy the manifold. At this stage you know for sure that your money hasn't been wasted because they aren't compatible with some other manifold or turbo.

Also, downtime WILL be longer than you expect. Doesn't matter if it's you or a shop. Something along the way will hold up progress. It's not insurmountable, however if you need your car to live and you want to try and cram it in over a weekend, it ain't happening.

Anyway, hope that doesn't come off too much as a downer. If anything, I'd say that it at least lets you lay the tracks for a build while you're unemployed. I found it came in really handy to have a bunch of stuff pre-purchased over the winter by my scrimping and saving.

Anyhoo, sounds like you've got your heart set on a build. I hope this at least gives you a bit of help/direction for doing it, a la ghetto income like I did.

[Seerlah]

I am really almost done. Here is a my list of parts (it's kind of big, and was lucky enough to scoop most of this stuff up when I was employed):

-Garrett T3 GT2871R .63 A/R
-PSi Concept T3 manifold
-PSi Concept oil&coolant lines
-Precision PW39 wastegate
-TM Tuning AFPR
-ATP fuel rail
-Forge 004
-Turbo XS HPBC MBC
-ATP fuel rail adapter to run stock (or stock like) fpr<<<this is a really cool design
-034 Bosch 044 in tank fuel pump
-034 powder coated valve cover
-034 polished ignition coil cover (thinking to pc red)
-034 Vortex catch can
-Injen 3" dry filter with pre-filter (water repellant)
-1" K&N filter for catch can
-Vibrant silicone wrapped heater hose for catch can (just looks cleaner than regular heater hose)
-4 Siemen 630cc injectors (flow matched)
-Autometer fuel pressure gauge for rail
-Innovate LC-1 for one of my VEI dual gauges
-2 dual VEI gauges (boost, IAT, A/F, oil pressure)
-034 Street Density Motor Mounts
-034 Street Density Tranny Mounts
-Sachs metal clutch slave cylinder with SS lines
-Mocal oil cooler with Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate
-I am sure I am missing other stuff

I have been installing parts peice by peice, to not overload myself at once. For example, just placed on my SS brake lines yesterday or 2 days ago, so my brake upgrade is done (A8/TT with Hawk HPS front and rear). I installed the Bosch 044 maybe a month ago. And I already have a bunch of mods already on my vehicle (2.75", JHM trio, 034 snub mount with bracket, Stern Power Ring, Stern rear diff carrier bushings, coilovers,Hotchkis sway bars, etc. those are performance mods and not cosmetic). Found a guy who is going to sell me the Boost Factory SMIC for $350 used, just waiting for him to take it off his car (placed in vented B5 S4 fender liner, and plan on modifying this smic a bit with a 2.5" outlet to 2.5" aluminum custom throttle body piping to 2.5" stock throttle body. I'll use the stock hot side charge piping that runs under the radiator for now). I ordered the Apikol 2 weeks ago and was to ship out last week, but I canceled that order (they were really kind to cancel it, as they are built to order) before it shipped. So, just need that, and the ER downpipe for the PSi Concept manifold and I can install my kit.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Nice, then you look like you're set to go. I'll be looking forward to seeing it completed.

On another note, I just about had an aneurysm today. I had just taken off from my house and was crossing the intersection when I saw all sorts of white smoke billowing from the back. Fuck, I thought and turned around to try and nurse it back to the house. Well, the light was taking forever and all of a sudden the GF says "your oil pressure gauge isn't rising anymore (it bounces between 25 to 75 PSI depending on throttle). Shit shit shit!!!!!, now I'm backing up into oncoming traffic to get into the curb lane, the oil pressure light and dash were just starting to beep as I jam it into the right lane and shut the car off. Open the hood and there's oil everywhere on the exhaust side. Push the car into the nearest parking lot and think of ways to light the car on fire so it looks like an accident.

So I'm sitting, looking at this engine, trying to figure out what the hell could blow oil all over the engine bay? Finally I decide to give the oil supply line a shake and sure enough, it's loose. As it turns out, I was thinking this morning "hey, I never actually looked through that fitting that I found in my toolbox and used to connect the oil line to the new CHRA (this one was different than the one that blew). "I should check to make sure it isn't an orifice type" Nope, it wasn't, but I must just finger tightened it as my attention was drawn to a coupler that was coming loose.

So, 3 quarts of oil from the Jiffy Lube across the street and I was good to go, but fuck, I swear I took off 10 years of my life when I saw that engine bay. Anyway, hope this falls under the "ha ha ha, it's funny because it's not me" category. The blood vessels in my head have already done their bursting, I figure this story may as well be a good laugh for the rest of the world [:p]

[Seerlah]

I would have freaked also. Looks like a nice engine bay clean up is in order[up]. But I'm wondering why you didn't get a low oil level warning before oil low pressure warning?

[Dan[FN]6262]

imagine how I felt when I pulled over because there was smoke coming out from under my hood, to find out that my oil return line was dumping oil onto my hot ass manifold, obviously catching on fire.... with nothing in the car to put it out with.... 40 mins from any civilization.

[Seerlah]

^You should invest in a fire extinguisher for your vehicle. First time I saw a thread of a forum member's car catching on fire, I went to the auto parts store and grabbed one up asap. Have it mounted to my subwoofer enclosure box, and plan on adding a second one. Better safe than sorry. Plus you would be able to help someone else out, if the situation calls for it.

[Dan[FN]6262]

I have been meaning to get one, I just keep forgetting

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I actually put one in after my fuel line cracked a few years back and pissed gasoline all over my cat when I opened the hood. So waaay ahead of you guys, but agree 200%

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So, last night ended up being her trial by fire, she passed... My buddy with S4 Frankenturbo setup and I did a little 'comparing' and it was neck and neck. He was down on boost some (19-20) Psi and I was misfiring quite a bit on the high RPM's, and had to make three shifts with my entire intake charge air getting blown out vs his two with instant boost recovery. So both of our cars definitely have some left on the table. IIRC, he trapped 114 Mph on that setup, even with a shite 13.xx ET (can't remember the exact number), so that gives you a pretty clear picture of where she's at for now.

All in all though, I was really happy with how she performed. I ran her for about 2 hours that night, no holds barred, 24 PSI and other than the misfires, she ran flawlessly.

[Seerlah]

Good to hear.

[SleeperAvant]

Nice stuff. Glad it's running!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Also, here's footage of a few quick pulls. Not the greatest quality, but I figured I owe you guys something for following this thread so long. I'll try and get some better ones in a bit.

T04e 60-1 Passat 2nd gear pull - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JP8ErI5Do)
T04e 60-1 Passat 2nd gear pull - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEF7SlpSA1c)

PS: if someone knows how to embed the video here, rather than having to go to youtube's site, let me know.

[Seerlah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JP8ErI5Do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEF7SlpSA1c

So, when you think you can consider your build officially safe (meaning, when you will be able to rest easy and drive the car with no real concerns)? 10,000 miles or so?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Beats the hell out of me. Problem is, my sense of paranoia has often just been the eerie feeling of being right. I've always found that I alternate between my "ahh this is perfect and awesome" days and my "shhh, what the f*uck is that rattle?, AAAAHHHH my car is going to explode!!!' days. I swear, I have days where the raving derelict the corner with tinfoil on his head is more grounded in reality than I am.

I guess I'll just keep on drivin' her until something comes up and deal with it when it happens. No sense in bucking the trend right [;)]

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So figured I'd drop an update in. So far, she's holding up pretty well (knock on wood). I've been playing a bit with the Maestro. Most of it has been with the off boost timing. However I finally got her into some deeper waters tonight and got some good WOT 2-3 gear pulls in. I've been able to go fairly aggressive on the timing without getting it to pull it. I'm running about 40 degrees off boost up to 4500 RPM or so. Then I added some on boost. 25-30 degrees under boost seems to be working. I figured I'd toss in a VAG-VOM chart since it's the easiest to understand (for me at least)

These were done at about 18-19 PSI. I don't know how the scaling on the g/sec is set up relative to other files, so it probably doesn't mean much. However it's probably moving a good 40 lb/min FWIW. Timing is the dark blue line and the scaling is 0-100, so every horizontal line is 10 degrees BTDC.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/logsept28night21psi.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/logsept28.jpg

[Seerlah]

Are you working off a base map from Tapp? If so, what did you have to do, if anything, to get it to run right?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

truth be told it was pretty good right off the hop. I documented the changes on the AEB + Maestro thread.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So, since I've been having consistent issues with multiple cylinder misfires above 20-21 PSI. I decided to convert to push down coil packs. I found a new set of revision R coil packs for $83 shipped. I figure it's a pretty deal since I have all the wiring and the proper valve cover from my parts car. So we'll see if it makes a difference. More than anything though, I'm glad to not be held hostage by parts sellers if my ICM ever goes bad again. That seriously sucked having to track down a used one and still paying $50 for it.

[Jmacc]

wait don't buy them yet ill check to see what my other ones are, but if they are the r revision they have all been replaced within 10k km. Ill check in the morning and text you what they are.

[Seerlah]

If you want to cancel your order, I have 2 R versions I can send you. Then you can probably get the other 2 from someone else. Or I can send you 2 R versions and 2 L versions (just pay for shipping). I run the Hitachi E units, as they will have a hard time blowing on you. There is actually even a person in the classified section selling 4 used ones for $50. I blew 2 of them couple months ago, but I was doing other work and I think something I did made them fail prematurely (maybe fuel dripping down into the chambers). But I had 2 R versions blow on me in a metter of 2 months, and 2 L versions blow on me couple days to a week after I had my ECU flashed. After the 2 L versions blew, that is when I upgraded to the R versions. Well, those really do suck alo. Once 2 of those blew, went to the Hitachi and it was years before 2 of them blew on me. But I still think I was the one who caused it to happen.

[CamrideA4]

Have you looked at this? http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/432344-Using-2.0T-coil-packs-on-the-1.8T

Even if they don't provide a benefit they're cheaper. I noticed a difference but my coilpacks were 2 years old.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Thanks for the offers guys, but I ordered them just after I made the post last night. So I guess it's a done deal. FWIW though, the guy's in Canada, so I don't have to deal with the possibility of customs BS.

Regarding the 2.0 coils, I'd like to see some hard data on them. I know Walky_Talky was going to do some testing vs a fresh set of R coils, but I never saw anything yet. Problem is, it looks like most guys replaced old (2+ years) 1.8T coils with fresh 2.0 ones. So it's not a fair comparison IMO. Hopefully Walky_Talky tests them against his new revision R ones and then we'll have a better idea.

Also, having to buy the coils for $80 and another $80 in adaptors pretty much doubles the price for me. I sold myself on the swap because at $80 all in, I could probably recoup a good part of my cost by selling off my still usable AEB coils and ICM.

[CamrideA4]

Thanks for the offers guys, but I ordered them just after I made the post last night. So I guess it's a done deal. FWIW though, the guy's in Canada, so I don't have to deal with the possibility of customs BS.

Regarding the 2.0 coils, I'd like to see some hard data on them. I know Walky_Talky was going to do some testing vs a fresh set of R coils, but I never saw anything yet. Problem is, it looks like most guys replaced old (2+ years) 1.8T coils with fresh 2.0 ones. So it's not a fair comparison IMO. Hopefully Walky_Talky tests them against his new revision R ones and then we'll have a better idea.

Also, having to buy the coils for $80 and another $80 in adaptors pretty much doubles the price for me. I sold myself on the swap because at $80 all in, I could probably recoup a good part of my cost by selling off my still usable AEB coils and ICM.

You don't need the adapters unless you're picky on how they look. The adapters are not needed to hold the coilpacks in place. I've had mine in for going on 6 months and they've never moved.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I did the coil pack swap, big, big difference. IMO, every AEB owner should do this.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-09174148-1.jpg

However, I've been having throttle body issues for a while now, so I finally decided to change it out. Strangely enough, I couldn't find a stock DBC throttle body to save my soul, as the wreckers always sell them with the engine. So I ended up finding a 65mm VR6 throttle body and decided to use that.

I ended up whipping up an adapter plate that let me put the TB almost exactly in it's original orientation. It's cocked about 10 degrees or so. So the throttle cable and pigtail didn't need any alterations. It looks kinda ghetto without the TB attached. But it integrated really nice with everything together.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-13202518.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-13223207.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-13223222.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-14154230.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-14205644.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-14205706.jpg

Now, the problem is, the car started and ran fine for about 10 minutes with the VR6 TB. In fact, it ran like a champ. But when I got back from my test drive, the idle started surging and I ended up getting the same damn issue on the VR6 throttle body. Basically, it won't adapt. The car runs, but the ECU will only register 74 degrees throttle angle at WOT instead of the 86 degrees that I normally see.

But this is the kicker. Last night, I plugged in the VR6 TB just to insure that it was compatible. I ran an adaptation, and it adapted. However, after that, the stock TB that refused to adapt before, kept an adaptation!!! [headbang][headbang][headbang]

I'm starting to think I may have an electrical short somewhere because now my stereo doesn't work, and the Eurodyne software steadfastly refuses to read my ECU (and yes, I'm up to date on the software)

Anyway, I just drove it home and parked it for now. I'm friggin' tired, so I'll see what tomorrow brings.

Also did some port and polish for shits and giggles. Turned out pretty good IMO. The funny thing is that other than matching the gasket dimensions, I had no plan in particular for how I wanted to shape things. I just ran off instinct and let it turn out however it turned out. Kind of a zen thing I know. I just find it strangely soothing.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-14151038.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-14151052.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-14151100.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-14163256.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/2011-10-14163327.jpg

[jaychen]

Looks good zimbu, why not spend the extra on 2.0 coils though if other peoplehave had R's blow

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Thanks, also, regarding the type R coils I go them because the guy who had the type R ones was in Canada and sold them cheap ($83 shipped). That, and I still would have needed $80 (plus shipping and whatever taxes/brokerage fees) worth of adapter plates to install them. Had there been any solid reports of the 2.0 coils adding any substantial amount of power, maybe I would have gone for it. However at this point, it's all anecdotal evidence and I'm not that convinced by what I'm hearing (guess that's the experimental psych major/law student in me speaking lol)

[Wet0willy01]

Glad to see you opened the manifold up to the full size
http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/data/21/large/60_70_COMPARE.JPG

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, it's useless if you open the TB but keep the same size opening. It's like someone running an elim turbo with the stock inlet pipe.

I will say though, I think it made a difference. If you check the VR6 thread you'll see I did get it adapted again. With it adapted and running right, the acceleration when boost hits is just downright fierce. I could keep traction (I'm FWD) in 2nd when it wasn't adapted and running like shit. But with it running right, I can't put my foot to the floor and leave it there in 2nd without it wanting to break loose. I really want to get it out on the highway and try some 3rd gear running. But I have a damn law school paper worth 30% of my mark due on Monday. So I haven't had the time yet. And speaking of that, I should probably get off the forums and get my ass in gear. I'll see if I can make it out tonight though (gotta have a break right [;)])

[ZimbutheMonkey]

The sleeper has awakened...!!!

So after changing to some BKR7E's and re-gapping them to 0.28 I went for a test run. I found an open stretch of road, set it for high boost and laid into it in 3rd. My gauge recorded 27.7 PSI as my max, but my eyes were glued to the road. Honestly, it was unreal, it just kept pulling. I stopped at about 7000 RPM because I was in licence revoking territory. But THIS is what I knew this turbo was capable of. It's a shame I can't get an exact reading with it going off the charts like that, but I have to figure that's at least a 15% increase in airflow over my other pulls. This thing has to be in the 400+ CHP range. Fuck yeah!!! it feels good to know that I finally tapped into what I knew was being left on the table.

Here's the pull from tonight compared to what I had been maxing out at before. (light blue is G/sec, the graph maxes out at 100 g/sec)
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/Fuckyeah400plusHP.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/LOGoct0855DC20psiaebcoil.jpg

[jaychen]

Sick!

Well done mate. Must be a blast to drive

[flynnr]

how much was the vr6 TB? and is there a specific one i should look for? (i didnt look at your previous posts to be honest)

I have access to a machine shop and would love to make a custom adapter plate like that and give it a shot.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I found one for $100. As for tune I'm running Eurodyne. But if you're running standalone, you'll be golden. I'm still in the process of trying to figure out how to bring the idle back down to 1000 RPM.

That said, I should probably clarify that the key factor in all this was being able to run at that high a PSI without things breaking up, which is probably largely a function of the plugs. I'm sure that the throttle body helps, I just don't want to create the impression that it was all the throttle body.

[Aragorn]

why didnt you just adjust the scale on the graphs?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

As near as I can tell, Chris Tapp didn't include the maps that I would need to do it.

[Aragorn]

I mean in your viewer?

Looks like theres some controls at the bottom to set the scale for each plot. "Vertical Scale" Its currently showing 50 and -50, but thats because the red degrees item is selected to the left. Click the g/sec one then adjust the scale?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Oh, you mean on VAG-COM. The reason I didn't adjust it is because I had no idea that it was going to go that high. Like I said, it completely took me by surprise. Next time I go out testing I'll probably rescale it to 200 g/sec (easiest to read on the fly).

Unfortunately, since then I just haven't had time to drive outside the city to do some open road testing. I try not to do redline pulls in 3rd in the city because the only roads that I can really scope out for speed traps are 80 km/hr zones and redlining it for a pull in 3rd means I'm doing over 160 km/hr. Problem is I can't guarantee 100% that there won't be a cop driving towards me on the other side (knock on wood just to be safe lol).

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I got out on the highway to do a full run. Stopped a hair short on the first, but the second one was clear to 7500. What amazed me was that despite my A/F ratios going a bit lean (12.5:1) there was no timing pull. 17-20 degrees BTDC at 25 PSI = W/M and Mishimoto front mount FTW. Anyway, looks like it's flowing anywhere from 15-20% more air than it was before (g/sec rescaled to 0-200). Best $13 bucks and 20 minutes I ever spent.
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/23rdgearpullsoct2727psipeak55dc0degrees.jpg

[Seerlah]

Does the ports on your IM manifold match that of your cylinder head? If not, any plans to gasket match and port the cylinder head intake? Actually, any plans to make your own IM? I don't see why not. What I see, it is just reusing runners from the AEB manifold (yours being ported is a big plus), having velocity stacks at the plenum, and just a larger plenum. I know there are other factors that go into having professionals make one worth the cost (ie angle of air flow). But for a garage home brewed setup, why not?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I'll probably get around to making an intake manifold in the new year sometime. If I'm going to spend any time and money it'll be on getting my torsen diff fitted. With winter just around the corner, any more power is going to be a moot point without traction. I'll probably end up parking the car for a week when the weather gets shitty, pull my stock diff out and use it to get all the measurements I need for the retrofit and for sourcing the bearings.

[jaychen]

How fast were you traveling at 7500 in 2nd before you changed gears ?

[flynnr]

about 64mph iirc

[flynnr]

I'll probably get around to making an intake manifold in the new year sometime. If I'm going to spend any time and money it'll be on getting my torsen diff fitted. With winter just around the corner, any more power is going to be a moot point without traction. I'll probably end up parking the car for a week when the weather gets shitty, pull my stock diff out and use it to get all the measurements I need for the retrofit and for sourcing the bearings.

whats wrong with your diff?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

whats wrong with your diff?

It's FWD and open [down]

[ZimbutheMonkey]

How fast were you traveling at 7500 in 2nd before you changed gears ?

Yeaaahhh, second gear, that's right (looks around and whistles nonchalantly)

[jaychen]

Oh, I thought you said earlier that you stopped short on the first.. I just assumed it was first gear.

I was hoping you would say 88mph.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So now that my buddy with the Frankenturbo S4 and I got a chance to do revise our tunes/setups, we did some 3-4 gear pulls. Pretty much dead even and I even pulled about a car length and a half on one run. It really had more to do with who got on the throttle quicker.

Just to qualify things a bit, he was running 25 PSI with open downpipes, but no water/meth at the time. So there's a little more left in his tune yet. That, and I needed to be right around 4500 RPM or higher or he would walk me. So, I have to give credit where credit is due.

Myself, I was running 25-27 PSI with my water/meth and about 25 degrees advance. I'm actually getting up to 5 degrees correction now, so I think that's as far as I can push the timing on pump gas.

Anyway, it was all good fun, and I think it pretty much confirms my 400+ CHP estimate. A 2.7 Frankenturbo at 25 PSI is no slouch.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Took a crappy cell phone vid of a 3rd gear pull at 25 PSI Tough to make out most of the gauges but you can see the tach

http://youtu.be/dX6_HMWkrpY

PS, if anyone can embed this stupid thing, please do so, I'm just too damn tired and lazy to figure it out

[Seerlah]

Gotcha [;)]

Also noticed on a couple posts up that your meth nozzle is pre-throttle body. You plan on leaving it there? I read that they tend to make your TB damage prematurely. Or does that only referr to DBW throttle bodies? Maybe fab up a thicket adapter plate so you can tap it for the meth nozzle (with anti-syphon solenoid), if it does create an opportunity of messing up your TB?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX6_HMWkrpY&feature=youtu.be

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, I don't really know if it damages things or not. I thought I had a couple TB's go bad. But I had the same problem with the VR6 one to (i.e. it wouldn't adapt without a fight. So I don't know. Maybe I'll get creative and go with individual port injection if I ever get time to make a new manifold.

Little bit more on that video. I watched it in slow mo a few times and I think i've got it pegged at 5000-7500 in about 4 seconds. By my caculations that's 125 km/hr to about 180 Km/hr in 4 seconds or so. Not to shabby.

PS: how the hell do you embed the video. It did it for me on PassatWorld, but AZ seems to be a little different.

[Seerlah]

You simply plug in the URL (copy and paste) into the video embed option. And there was a build thread where the user tapped each intake runner for their own individual meth injector nozzle. It's the car the JumboBlack1.8t purchased, but he sold that manifold a while back. And I am pretty posotive that having the meth nozzle pre-TB messes up the TB. The thing was to have it at the charge pipe as it exits the intercooler, to have it really atomize before it reaches the TB. And to have it after the TB, but have an anti syphon solenoid to not have the intake suck in the meth while not on boost (when you set it to spray). That's what I recall, anyways. Here is a pic of the IM I was referring to (thread referance (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/286427-Lou-s-A4-B5-GT3071r-Build...)).

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/ltortora/IMG00151.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/ltortora/IMG00150.jpg

[ZimbutheMonkey]

The one disadvantage of having it that close is that it has less time to absorb the heat as the methanol flashes. However you do get a better distribution to all the runners, so it's a bit of a devil's tradeoff. What I'll probably do if I build a bigger manifold is to at least put the bungs in (like on my exhaust manifold) so I have the option if I want. Then I could run pre, post or both.

[Dan[FN]6262]

you need some NAAAAAWWWWWWSSSSSSSS to help getting that bastard spinnin'

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Or moving somewhere that isn't 3500 ft above sea level. Although I have considered the Nitrous. Problem is, will I be able to get traction in anything other than 4th lol. Best solution of all though would be to say to hell with it and buy an EFR turbo. Buuuut, since my man whoring career isn't making much money, I think it'll be a little while yet.

[Jmacc]

Do you still have that intake manifold that is setup with space for dual injectors? I'm not sure what the size difference would be but could you run w/m nozzles in there? Maybe with adapters?

[Seerlah]

Does the stock IAT sensor contribute to the accountability of the ECUs decision on ignition timing?

[Dan[FN]6262]

yes. so does coolant temp going in and out of the radiator. you would be surprised at what Motronic does, all faster than you can blink.

[Seerlah]

Then having it in the intake runers isn't the best of ideas? The throttle body plate adapter places the nozzle right before the IAT sensor, which would really be like an ideal location.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I've thought about that. But the way I look at it is if the IAT sensor is being artificially cooled, it's a little more willing to keep the timing advanced. I still have the knock sensors to pull timing if need be though.

I've found the AEB's to be kind of weird about their timing pull. Based on hours and hours of logging, It almost looks like if the ECU pulls timing early (high load low RPM) it keeps it pulled. If it doesn't, it'll either wait longer to do it or it'll pull way less.

I get the impression that since the AEB's didn't have much in the line of safety cutouts, the early ECU's are very pre-emptive, it's like if it sees any hint of detonation conditions it pulls a lot of timing and never 'gives it back' during the pull, if that makes any sense.

[Seerlah]

It makes sense. One of the first things I learned when I first purchased this car is that the ME7 ECU basically has a mind of it's own. Everything, including throttle, is dependant upon the ECU. It is both good and bad, depending on the case. Guess the ME5 has it's own quirks.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Sooooo, I just sold off my old engine (the pre-build one) to a buddy of mine who has his own shop and needed an AEB engine on the fly. I suggested that in lieu of cash, that maybe he could get me some go fast(er) goodies instead. What to install now.....

[viceprp]

Sooooo, I just sold off my old engine (the pre-build one) to a buddy of mine who has his own shop and needed an AEB engine on the fly. I suggested that in lieu of cash, that maybe he could get me some go fast(er) goodies instead. What to install now.....

A real turbo.. something BB :)

[Seerlah]

Maybe something tripple BB? I am really intrigued with these turbochargers, same as I was with the Forced Performance ones years ago. Forced Performance has proven to stand up to what they advertise, and Competition Turbo seems to be doing the same...so far. Well, there goes my suggestion. Or you figure you need a turbo to still suit your FWD more? The 60 trim was good for the way the power was gradual, so no real wheel spin (the way I analised it). But a different turbocharger may prove a different scenerio. But as they say, only one way to find out [drive].

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Yeah, the power ramp up is why I'm not too keen on changing turbos to a BB unit. I'm thinking something along the lines of valvesprings/retainers and 8500 RPM redline.

The other thing I've been eyeing just out of curiosity is a billet compressor that's been made for the 60-1, basically, it's a GTX style 11 blade type that was made by the guys at TurboDirect http://www.turbodirect.co.za/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=17&Itemid=30 Don't know how much of a difference if it would make, but go to a .63 A/R if it spools a little faster than it's traditional 7 blade counterpart and pick up another 50+ HP with possibly the same spool up time as I have now.

[Dan[FN]6262]

Yeah, the power ramp up is why I'm not too keen on changing turbos to a BB unit. I'm thinking something along the lines of valvesprings/retainers and 8500 RPM redline.

I have a slightly used set of Cat Gold valve springs. they use stock retainers, and are recommended if going to rev to 8.5k rpms.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

We'll have to see how our deal shapes up. Ordering parts for me works in his favor because he doesn't need to pay cash out of pocket immediately. By the time he starts on buddy's car, he should have cash in hand to pay the guys he ordered the parts from, know what I mean?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I thought I'd make a quick update on this thread. I got the valve springs installed a few weeks ago, and I also took a quick vid today of 3rd gear just to give an idea as to how she runs. I pulled the plug at 7500 on that run, but the engine is good to 8500. I just don't know that with the .48 A/R it's really worth winding it out that far. I may need the extra revs if I ever decide to go with a .63 A/R however.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8tsvMaUoy4

I'm pretty happy with it overall. What amazes me is that the pull from 5000-7500 (120 km/hr-180 km/hr) really doesn't slow down as the revs build. It's pretty much linear all the way. Also, just for shits and giggles I timed it with a stopwatch from 120-180 and it came out at about a hair under 5 sec.

[jaychen]

Nice mate,

pulls very nicely now. As you said, nice and linear.

How many revisions have you made to the tune overall now?