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cdowns13
12-18-2010, 10:10 AM
Ok so first, I have been doing a ton of searching along with the shop that is working on my car doing a ton of searching too. With all dead end posts and cant find the issue.

The car...
2000 a4 1.8t man. AWD ATW engine
new bw k04 with GIAC software
2.5 cat

Codes that are coming up:
Neg deviation (not sure on code number but thats what iv been hearing from the shop)
17743-engine torque monitor 2: control limit exceeded

Right now what is happening is the the car will go into limp mode (pedal will stop working) and the EPC light will come on. Pull the car over re-start and will happen again... This is at 30% to half throttle. Car will back off a little then go back to normal then back off again... (i guess you could call this surging), when you get on it though, it will accelerate fine and pull nicely and then at one point it will decide it wants to back off again. Then after letting off the pedal and re accelerating the EPC light and limp mode pops in again

So i just installed the K04 on my car and had the shop do the software (GIAC). All new oil feed lines and vac lines and this issue comes up

So far the car has been smoke tested like crazy, every place they could think of has been tested.. no leaks
what has been changed out of the car:
n75 valve
DV
throttle body sensor
car has been re flashed (GIAC is working with the shop to find another program possibly for my car)
disconnected the ABS module to see if this was the issue for the engine torque monitor code (sometimes is the culprit)
Maf has also been replaced by three other ones.. can't get a correct reading on it... supposed to be reading b/w 2-4 and wont go over 1.94 grams.. not sure why
i am not completely sure but it sounds like they cant get a correct reading when the car is in motion too

so with the vag com hooked up, they are watching for requested boost and actual. car will request 1.3 bar but will only get 1 bar, leaving off about 5 pounds of boost from what is requested.

right we (mostly the shop) are at a loss of what the issue is.. i recently talked to another guy on the phone at another shop that had like issues with his ATW and replaced the engine/turbo/tubing/pedal sensor...he resolved the issue by selling the car.. and im not doing that b/c no one wants to have a salvaged broken car...

so anyone with ANY info will be greatly appreciated

thanks


Chris

bez101
12-18-2010, 10:30 AM
how was it running b4 the turbo and ecu flash ?

Robb12
12-18-2010, 10:35 AM
what fpr are you running?

walky_talky20
12-18-2010, 10:51 AM
I want to see some data here. MAF, boost, fuel trims, etc.

It sounds like a MAF related code (MAF value is too high for conditions) and is probably caused by something else, like a boost leak.

cdowns13
12-18-2010, 10:57 AM
car was running fine, except for the turbo.. it started to act a little funny, would hit fourth and bog down (limp mode but pedal would respond and no epc light).. turbo got too hot.. took it out and seemed to be semi ok but had a VERY small amount of play... i didnt want to risk driving the car anymore and have metal shards into the engine.. i think i got it out just in time according to the tech who helped me replace everything..

as for fpr im using a 5 bar (from techtonics)

bez101
12-18-2010, 11:04 AM
the last car i had with problems like yours was an 18T 2003
we changed maf tb sensors leak tests alsorts was still the same in the end it went to audi
they put the oem map back on the car and it was fine
i then had the company redo the map and it went back the same ended up been something wrong in the map after they sorted it the car was fine and i was out of pocket to just over 1000 and and they still said it wasnt there fault even after they checked and rechecked the map 1st time around

cdowns13
12-18-2010, 11:06 AM
I want to see some data here. MAF, boost, fuel trims, etc.

It sounds like a MAF related code (MAF value is too high for conditions) and is probably caused by something else, like a boost leak.

i'll see if i can get some data from them or if one of the techs can post in here about it..

they have replaced the maf with three others so not sure what else they can do with that.. but the MAF is reading too low for what is needed (1.94 g/sec) and they haven't told me about any maf codes. they said the first 02 sensor threw a code recently which has been replaced recently.. kind of weird..

cdowns13
12-18-2010, 11:08 AM
the last car i had with problems like yours was an 18T 2003
we changed maf tb sensors leak tests alsorts was still the same in the end it went to audi
they put the oem map back on the car and it was fine
i then had the company redo the map and it went back the same ended up been something wrong in the map after they sorted it the car was fine and i was out of pocket to just over 1000 and and they still said it wasnt there fault even after they checked and rechecked the map 1st time around


great info! thanks, i think they are trying to get GIAC to give them a new program or find something that works.. car was put back to stock and then re programmed again to make sure it was tuned properly
hopefully that can figure things out :/

bez101
12-18-2010, 11:17 AM
when it was put back to stock how did it run

cdowns13
12-18-2010, 11:25 AM
to be honest i dont know.. they are pretty good about relaying the message to me if things are going right... so im guessing not well... but i'll be talking with them soon again so i will ask and see what they say

JK35
12-19-2010, 12:37 PM
so... you're in MD and the car is in GA?

cdowns13
12-19-2010, 02:25 PM
so... you're in MD and the car is in GA?

Car is registered in md but got a job here in atlanta, so I have to have it inspected in md.. Fun stuff

l0stnyc
12-19-2010, 04:57 PM
Your story sounds like the same thing that happened to me last year. EPC and car would just turn off. KO4 on GIAC software on a 2000 ATW. Scary on the highway but luckily I could just restart the car while it was still moving. I replaced MAF, O2 Sensors, tried different N75 valves, multiple boost leak tests, FPR, etc.

You are on the right path. The problem was for me was the software. There is a very specific GIAC file that needs to be used on the 2000 that most tuners don't have. I would contact GIAC directly as they are aware of it.

cdowns13
12-19-2010, 06:47 PM
Your story sounds like the same thing that happened to me last year. EPC and car would just turn off. KO4 on GIAC software on a 2000 ATW. Scary on the highway but luckily I could just restart the car while it was still moving. I replaced MAF, O2 Sensors, tried different N75 valves, multiple boost leak tests, FPR, etc.

You are on the right path. The problem was for me was the software. There is a very specific GIAC file that needs to be used on the 2000 that most tuners don't have. I would contact GIAC directly as they are aware of it.

this is refreshing to hear. the owner of the shop is working with them to figure it out and they thought they had used the right one but I dont know.. im hoping that is the case! i'll talk to them tomorrow about it

kaban
12-22-2010, 09:35 AM
To add to l0stnyc input, make sure the shop installed the J31 file.

cdowns13
02-17-2011, 08:25 PM
ok so the issue continues... im bringing this thread back.. Im getting a negative deviation code with my GIAC chip...

i took my car back from the shop because they stopped working on it..
i have bought a vag-com which will be here soon.. '

things that have been replaced or tested just for update and recap...

n75 (but being replaced with a j valve)
been boost leak tested
new, bigger SMIC which keeps the temp down to 56 degrees C under full boost..
tested MAF
tested MAP sensor
02 sensors replaced
DV replaced
throttle body sensor


it is interesting.. i have the chip on "stock" mode right now and get no negative deviation code and has not gone into limp mode for me (so far and will keep this updated as more driving occurs tomorrow)
im wondering what is going wrong under higher boost. I did more searching.. every google post about negative deviation on an a4 (first few pages) has to do with a k04 ATW giac chipped car.. all have the same things changed out and no solution..

when i get the official VAG com i will get logs up of some runs.. but wanted to start the primer here.. what banks would be the best to log for some of you guys to see?

any other ideas or questions i'll be happy to answer

h4robkr123
02-18-2011, 05:39 AM
To add to l0stnyc input, make sure the shop installed the J31 file.

False, they are not offering the J31 file anymore, it is only their standard ATW K04 file which requires only a 5 bar fpr. I was told that when GIAC went to an all flash line, they phased out the J31 because it was a soldered in chip.

colony7
02-18-2011, 08:22 AM
to be honest, i personally think giac sucks. you should just get your money back, and go with a BT file. i know a k04 isnt a BT, but a 440cc tune will work for you still. plus, if you get eurodyne, you can tweak the tune yourself

jbrentd
02-18-2011, 08:37 AM
I had a similar issue after going to KO4 on my AWM. The car suddenly died at 70 mph on the highway. Upon restart, the EPC light was on. Turned out that replacing the coolant temp senor fixed my issue. IIRC, it is actually a recommened change by GIAC for a KO4 swap.

cdowns13
02-18-2011, 09:38 AM
yeah the coolant temp sensor has been changed in the midst too.. car has yet to die on me again.. but still goes into limp mode..

still waiting to see if it will hit neg. dev. or go into limp mode in the "stock" mode of the chip

M-Hood
02-18-2011, 11:01 AM
These issues have been around for a long time. The EPC light coming on and loss of throttle control is caused by a low tq limiter setting in the tuning and happens when going WOT at low rpms.
The neg deviation is caused by the ECU seeing a low boost reading from the MAP sensor, the deviation can not be more then 300mbar. I had all these same issues on my custom GIAC K03 chip back in 2001.

Do you know what version of the GIAC ATW 018P software you are running?

Changing the sensors is not going to solve your problem and running the car in stock mode is most likley not going to cause the deviation, limp or loss of throttle control issue. You could try a MBC and decrease the boost slightly to see if it removes the deviation issue, but that could even be happening during spool up not just because of peak boost. Really need to log with a vagcom to see when it happens.

cdowns13
02-18-2011, 01:11 PM
so is this caused by the chip? or the ECU having a fit over how much boost??
would a change in chips make a difference? (swapping brands)

i am on the 018P software.. not sure which version?? heres a pic of the sticker on the ECU of this helps? haha
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/cdowns13/_MG_7313.jpg

what did you end up doing to alleviate the issue?? im not a fan of using a mbc but if i have to i guess I wont have any other option.. but this is extremely helpful

M-Hood
02-18-2011, 02:35 PM
It is caused by the tuning. I dont think there is much you can do about the tq limiter issue, might want to check Lemmiwinks to see if it allows you to adjust that setting.
GIAC was able to fix my deviation issue but that was on my custom chip. You might need to do some logs to see where that deviation happens.

Have you complained to your GIAC dealer or to GIAC directly about the issues?

viceprp
02-18-2011, 03:04 PM
Had the same issue with my APR files on my ATW. Turned out to be a Map Sensor and once that was installed, the problem went away. I noticed you said you tested it so I would say its software issues.

xattica
07-23-2011, 04:27 PM
Any updates?