APR and changing cars a no go

[audi5574]

I searched and didn't find this discussed before. I am looking at a 2011 A5 and my A4 is APR stage 2 plus. I will return the car to stock and sell the hardware items buts its a no go on be able to do anyhting with the software which just sucks. Why is apr not selling some kind of software loader where we can return the car to stock and atleast sell or upload a new software file to the loader. I have owned and currently own a diesel truck and they sell the loader and let you change software at anytime you buy a new truck same brand or different brand if they write the software. The loader is about a 1000 dollars with gauges but its worth it with the flexability. (H&S performance) So who makes a good tune and actually sells the loader where you have options. At this time I have no plans to go back to APR. I know of the Swedish tuner BSR who I might give a try.

Thanks

[elsst3]

yep bsr that's what i was going 2 say

[eccarlino]

with bsr, you can just order their loader and plug and play thats it? how's the program? does it work with a testpipe?

[rvca3112]

i had a BSR on my volvo s60R. shit was really nice. always cool to be able to throw the car back to stock with the press of a button for the dealership. i had full exhaust on mine too. wasnt aware they did our cars also.

[Der Konig]

Maybe I'm slow, but I'm confused. You're angry because you can't transfer the software to a different car? They would lose so much business if they did that. Paying 600 bucks for a life long tune on any audi you own would just be stupid cheap. I doubt anyone that has chipped an audi would stray far from VAG, which would mean they lose all that business. Seems fair to me, when I had my cobra tuned it was through a handheld programmer but was only transferable to cars within the same year range and model. Sold it with the car and don't regret that, not like I can turn around and use it on my audi which makes sense.

That's pretty awesome about the truck loader, and don't get me wrong that'd be amazing if it was offered on our cars (apparently BSR). Other than that it doesn't make fiscal sense to offer it that way.

[Operator]

I searched and didn't find this discussed before. I am looking at a 2011 A5 and my A4 is APR stage 2 plus. I will return the car to stock and sell the hardware items buts its a no go on be able to do anyhting with the software which just sucks. Why is apr not selling some kind of software loader where we can return the car to stock and atleast sell or upload a new software file to the loader. I have owned and currently own a diesel truck and they sell the loader and let you change software at anytime you buy a new truck same brand or different brand if they write the software. The loader is about a 1000 dollars with gauges but its worth it with the flexability. (H&S performance) So who makes a good tune and actually sells the loader where you have options. At this time I have no plans to go back to APR. I know of the Swedish tuner BSR who I might give a try.

Thanks


Not that I've used it, but a quick look shows it'll cost $1,050. Now, I'd venture, somewhere it's on sale...........

And as to being able to use it on multiple cars. I'm not sure what this means
For reasons of security, the PPC unit has been designed so that it "marries" itself to the car to which it is first connected.
I'm sure if you give them a call they can break it down more.

How many more times though, do you think you'll be able to use this unit after you get the A5. If you keep that car for 4-5 years, who knows what the tech will be like when you buy a new car. Who says you don't buy a Porsche at that point, is an A5 tune going to help you? If $1,050 is the price point, and you don't care about multi programs, APR's single file twice is $1100.

Also after 2 years:

Who can sign the BSR support agreement?
We offer the support agreement to all customers that buy, or already have bought, PPC Tuning System. The support agreement is included in the price and free of charge for two years from the time of buying. After that we offer you to renew the agreement one year at a time, costing $82/year. The agreement is affiliated with the car. When exchanging car the agreement is transferred to the new owner.

Makes it sound like you won't be taking the program to another car. Oh, and paying for support yearly can add up.

[Sales@RAI]

I don't know why this is surprising to you. There is labor/tools/time involved when doing these flashes, its not a flashloader where you can just transfer files

[Der Konig]

I don't know why this is surprising to you. There is labor/tools/time involved when doing these flashes, its not a flashloader where you can just transfer files

Exactly, it was something like $100 in labor for my Apr flash. I believe "married" to a car means that once it is linked and uploaded to a car, you can't run off and put it on another. Would have to unload it from the original "married" car and then it's free again to upload to a different car. At least that's what it meant on my cobra's predator programmer which I would imagine would use the same terminology in that context.

[davis449]

I don't know why this is surprising to you. There is labor/tools/time involved when doing these flashes, its not a flashloader where you can just transfer files

Ummm, yeah it basically is. Unless your car has to be flashed by setting the ECU in write mode, there's almost no labor involved in flashing a car with software from any of the major tuners. It's APR (and others) method of delivery that makes it "impossible" to use a flashloader-type device.

[audi5574]

I understand what you all are saying but I would have no problem in paying for another tune at a reduced price that I can load on the car myself its a pain in the ass going to a shop and having them do it. Or if I could remove the software and sell it to someone at a reduced cost to recover some of my money. Thats all I am saying it does not make sense that you lose all your money on the software. Its kind of difficult to find someone to switch ecu's with that would want the apr flash. Once again the diesel world is way ahead in the game when it comes to programers. I can do so much with my H&S mini max 0n my 2010 dodge cummins.

[davis449]

I understand what you all are saying but I would have no problem in paying for another tune at a reduced price that I can load on the car myself its a pain in the ass going to a shop and having them do it. Or if I could remove the software and sell it to someone at a reduced cost to recover some of my money. Thats all I am saying it does not make sense that you lose all your money on the software. Its kind of difficult to find someone to switch ecu's with that would want the apr flash. Once again the diesel world is way ahead in the game when it comes to programers. I can do so much with my H&S mini max 0n my 2010 dodge cummins.

Again, no they are not. It's the method of delivery APR and the others choose that makes it this way. Their software could just as easily be given to you on a CD-ROM that you plug a cable into and load it yourself.

[Der Konig]

Ummm, yeah it basically is. Unless your car has to be flashed by setting the ECU in write mode, there's almost no labor involved in flashing a car with software from any of the major tuners. It's APR (and others) method of delivery that makes it "impossible" to use a flashloader-type device.

If you're transfering it to a new car it would be a new tune for a new ECU, therefore in "write mode" meaning labor and that junk.

I understand what you're saying OP. While it does suck, you gotta do what you gotta do kind of thing.

[davis449]

If you're transfering it to a new car it would be a new tune for a new ECU, therefore in "write mode" meaning labor and that junk.

It depends on the car as to whether or not it can be direct ported or the ECU has to be pulled and taken apart to be set in write mode. That actually involves labor and only the newest of Audi's requires that be done. Direct Port tuning a "new" car, if that can indeed be done to the particular car, involves no more labor than plugging in a cable to the OBD II port. $100 is absolutely a rip off for Direct Port Tuning a car.

[Operator]

Or if I could remove the software and sell it to someone at a reduced cost to recover some of my money. Thats all I am saying it does not make sense that you lose all your money on the software.


That I can understand... Sell it, and put that money towards a new tune. Just make 100% sure BSR will let you do that.

[NastyNate]

Personally I'm glad that APR hasn't chimed in here. The thing that no one has mentioned is that the pricing and delivery model for these tunes is dependent on the business model that the tuning companies have. If you could just load the stuff using a USB cable or OBD-II then most of us would just get our tunes from a friend. The result of that? No more tunes, because it wouldn't be worth it. This is demonstrated by the higher price point of the BSR solution.

To specifically address OP's question, I understand wanting to get a "credit" or some sort of transferability if you were to total an A4 and buy a comparable A4. But to want credit/transferability for the tune just because you're not going to use it anymore is nonsense.

[davis449]

Personally I'm glad that APR hasn't chimed in here. The thing that no one has mentioned is that the pricing and delivery model for these tunes is dependent on the business model that the tuning companies have. If you could just load the stuff using a USB cable or OBD-II then most of us would just get our tunes from a friend. The result of that? No more tunes, because it wouldn't be worth it. This is demonstrated by the higher price point of the BSR solution.

To specifically address OP's question, I understand wanting to get a "credit" or some sort of transferability if you were to total an A4 and buy a comparable A4. But to want credit/transferability for the tune just because you're not going to use it anymore is nonsense.

Really? No one mentioned this in this thread?[rolleyes]

[elwigglero]

APR wants authorized and trained dealers to install the software because they don't want (and probably aren't equipped) to cover technical support for thousands of people who are going to require the assistance. They also need to protect the dealer relationship as these are the installers and salesman for their products. If they did allow you to load your own software, they'd have to change their pricing model and charge for an annual support contract, so they could cover the calls they'd receive.

I don't want to pay for that. I'm happy with a one-time fee for a re-flash that stays with the car. When I sell the car, I sell the APR flash along with it.

[Gil2.0T]

ill trade you my stock ecu for your stage 2 one...

[vwnobby]

I don't think the OP's thoughts are complete nonsense. I feel the same way. When I chipped my 97 GLX, I physically had a product that I could take out and drop into another vehicle. Same thing with my brothers '01 1.8T. He paid for a chip and was able to remove it. I understand that the companies need to make money, but we are paying (a lot more now, then back then) for a product that we can't physically handle. If someone totals their vehicle and they get another one, why shouldn't they be able to go to the tuner company and get the program loaded to the new vehicle, with the program free of charge? They already paid for the program. Most people will not be able to recoup the cost of the software if they sell their vehicle. If you installed an exhaust system, or intercoolers, you could physically remove them and recoup some of the initial cost. I just think that it should work that way for software as well.

[jl87]

Direct Port tuning a "new" car, if that can indeed be done to the particular car, involves no more labor than plugging in a cable to the OBD II port. $100 is absolutely a rip off for Direct Port Tuning a car.

+1...My APR guy did it for free because of this. I can see maybe a few bucks, but $100 for plug and play? He launched the program and went back to working on another Audi he had on a lift. 40 minutes later it was ready for a test drive.

[Gil2.0T]

If you installed an exhaust system, or intercoolers, you could physically remove them and recoup some of the initial cost. I just think that it should work that way for software as well.

i agree

[audi5574]

Once again some of you are not understanding me I want to be able to sell the software whether i get 10 dollars for it its my choice. Its just with APR I don't have this option. I would gladly trade gil for nothing if he lived in UT. Look at what I have for diesel truck at H&S performance and you will understand the luxuries I have yes I know its a different world but would just like something comparable. The dealer is going to certify my car so it will be returned to stock and yes the software will stay with the car and the new owner will have no clue.

[Operator]

+1...My APR guy did it for free because of this. I can see maybe a few bucks, but $100 for plug and play? He launched the program and went back to working on another Audi he had on a lift. 40 minutes later it was ready for a test drive.

Yeh, I guess each installer is different, but I just had to pay for the flash, no labor cost involved. Same thing for the Stage II flash, but that was free from APR and the tuner shop.

But a good question was asked earlier. Do they have tunes for the upgrades you so to your car, i.e. II, II+ etc. I see it says stage I on their dyno: http://www.esetuning.com/BSR-PPC-Tuning-System-p/ppcaudi-a420tfsiawd.htm

Nevermind, they do: http://en.bsr.se/products/t1073/

[VZWalex]

Maybe I can shed some light on the Situation ....

1. Have you Called APR? if you have not .. .please call them and speak with Arin or Or Chris Teauge.

2. Yes they can do a Software Transfer ( I am hoping that is still the case and that prices have not gone up )

This is the process I went through ....

1. Had to have car flashed back to stock (2007 A4 2.0T)

2. Called APR and Paid them the $50 transfer fee ( not sure if this has gone up or changed )

3. Took car to my local Apr Dealer (will not mention the place cause I still think they are lying douche bags)
They verify that the car is back to stock and Call APR to verify all is back to stock.

4. Took new car to Local Apr Dealer ... they Call APR for coupon code to authorize software flash on new car... New car is then flashed :) at this point if you want to add any new
features is a good time.

5. You are done.

I will say that IMO flashing software does not require you to have a rocket scientist degree and it bedazzles me to see how some of these guys try to act like they are performing brain surgery ... seriously ... anyways ... the APR dealer charged me $100 to perform the task of my software swap ... So my total out of pocket expense was $150 which included the $50 paid to APR for the transfer. I later added the valet feature and paid for that separately... over all .. I think it was well worth it even though that APR dealer lost all my future business because of something so simple as integrity .... I wont get into that right now but at least you know that a software transfer is possible.

hope this helps.

[davis449]

Maybe I can shed some light on the Situation ....

1. Have you Called APR? if you have not .. .please call them and speak with Arin or Or Chris Teauge.

2. Yes they can do a Software Transfer ( I am hoping that is still the case and that prices have not gone up )

This is the process I went through ....

1. Had to have car flashed back to stock (2007 A4 2.0T)

2. Called APR and Paid them the $50 transfer fee ( not sure if this has gone up or changed )

3. Took car to my local Apr Dealer (will not mention the place cause I still think they are lying douche bags)
They verify that the car is back to stock and Call APR to verify all is back to stock.

4. Took new car to Local Apr Dealer ... they Call APR for coupon code to authorize software flash on new car... New car is then flashed :) at this point if you want to add any new
features is a good time.

5. You are done.

I will say that IMO flashing software does not require you to have a rocket scientist degree and it bedazzles me to see how some of these guys try to act like they are performing brain surgery ... seriously ... anyways ... the APR dealer charged me $100 to perform the task of my software swap ... So my total out of pocket expense was $150 which included the $50 paid to APR for the transfer. I later added the valet feature and paid for that separately... over all .. I think it was well worth it even though that APR dealer lost all my future business because of something so simple as integrity .... I wont get into that right now but at least you know that a software transfer is possible.

hope this helps.

I thought this was the case concerning software transfer.

[deeznuts]

my APR dealer charges 75.
rocket science? literally he plugs it into the computer, types some information in, and i guess the map file, and the computer does the rest itself for 20 minutes
all said and done its a half hour out of the shops time to do it, so it is justified i guess.

[mr shickadance]

you should just talk with apr and explain to them that since you are selling your a4 that they can return it to stock, and with the purchase of the a5 get a credit for an a5 tune.....be grateful if they even give you 1/2 of that

the reasons businesses dont do what you would like them too is bc it is just not profitable for them to do so....why would they give up sales to a customer if they dont have to? because its the nice thing to do? yeah sure....but nice doesn;t pay the bills at the end of the month....bottom line no company is in the market because they want to help out...

[R1NSE]

someone should tell this guy

http://www.audizine.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=45838&title=apr-fully-loaded-ecu&cat=22

[Operator]

^^^^ But I think he's looking for a custom Unitronic tune.

[audi5574]

I called APR and basically was told tough luck. This is the reason I started this thread. I don't understand why everyone thinks APR is a god or something. I just wish they had a downloader of some sort. Like many of the diesel tuners you can upgrade and change software at anytime. I am not looking for something for nothing but the APR dealer network sucks for the most part charge a hundred dollars for a download please thats just a rip off but if we had the downloader with all the options of test pipe, HFC, HFP, stage 1, 2, or 3. Now we would have something no more going back to the shitty local APR dealer and get charged another 100 for the download.

[VZWalex]

I called APR and basically was told tough luck. This is the reason I started this thread. I don't understand why everyone thinks APR is a god or something. I just wish they had a downloader of some sort. Like many of the diesel tuners you can upgrade and change software at anytime. I am not looking for something for nothing but the APR dealer network sucks for the most part charge a hundred dollars for a download please thats just a rip off but if we had the downloader with all the options of test pipe, HFC, HFP, stage 1, 2, or 3. Now we would have something no more going back to the shitty local APR dealer and get charged another 100 for the download.

wow that sucks that they don't do transfers anymore ..... I think s partial credit system would be a good thing for them to retain customers .. at this point it gives customers an open window to go with another software company.

[Operator]

Still don't understand why some shops charge for the flash. That's not on APR though. Let us know on the B7 forum how the BSR unit works for you, I know you'll be off in A5 land, but I'm curious.

[vdubjetta02]

you are getting a quality well known, well researched/developed tune on a LUXURY car specified to your exact model, this is not some jap car or a truck.... and you guys are complaining about $600.... wow

You bought an Audi, not a honda

[bblume]

hey...if you had sirius you could transfer that...maybe that will make you feel better?

[Sales@RAI]

Ummm, yeah it basically is. Unless your car has to be flashed by setting the ECU in write mode, there's almost no labor involved in flashing a car with software from any of the major tuners. It's APR (and others) method of delivery that makes it "impossible" to use a flashloader-type device.

If you actually knew how it works you would understand what I meant.

[jimrobbington]

It is totally up to the shop wether or not they charge for the install or not. Find a better shop. I once fried the ecu in my jetta, and with a little pleading, REVO gave me a completely new tune for free. But it was going in the very same car. I do agree that your tune should hold some value though. Someone else's point was spot on. If there is no worth, and you have to pay full price, it is all too easy to try out another company.

Your only choice is to swap ecus with another car that wants to be chipped.

[Keith@APR]

We allow warranty transfers of our ECU Upgrades from one car to the other if it meets the following criteria:

Same Chassis, Same Engine, Same EMS Version = $150

We will bend this policy for those that have Same Engine, Same EMS Version = $150 if they are a loyal customer, i.e. have purchased hardware for both vehicles from us too or this is their 3rd car with APR, APR Dealer recommendation, etc.

In the case of the OP, the B7 A4 is a 2.0T FSI with ME9. The A5 is a B8 with a 2.0 TFSI (Valve Lift Engine) with MED17.5.

There is no way that the B7 A4 software is even the least bit compatible with his A5. The ECU Upgrade for the A5 and other MED17.5 2.0TFSI Valve Lift engines has over $250,000 worth of specific R&D that is not amortized over the sales of what engine and ems is found in the B7 A4 he owned previously.

In the case of this client, you have think of his A4 as a PC and his A5 as a Mac or vice versa and he wants his version of Microsoft Office to work on both without paying for both versions.

[R1NSE]

We allow warranty transfers of our ECU Upgrades from one car to the other if it meets the following criteria:

Same Chassis, Same Engine, Same EMS Version = $150

We will bend this policy for those that have Same Engine, Same EMS Version = $150 if they are a loyal customer, i.e. have purchased hardware for both vehicles from us too or this is their 3rd car with APR, APR Dealer recommendation, etc.

In the case of the OP, the B7 A4 is a 2.0T FSI with ME9. The A5 is a B8 with a 2.0 TFSI (Valve Lift Engine) with MED17.5.

There is no way that the B7 A4 software is even the least bit compatible with his A5. The ECU Upgrade for the A5 and other MED17.5 2.0TFSI Valve Lift engines has over $250,000 worth of specific R&D that is not amortized over the sales of what engine and ems is found in the B7 A4 he owned previously.

In the case of this client, you have think of his A4 as a PC and his A5 as a Mac or vice versa and he wants his version of Microsoft Office to work on both without paying for both versions.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought he wanted to sell the APR tune to somebody else, not put it in his A5.

[MMMB00ST_A4]

OP wants to sell his APR'd ECU. Transferring it within the same chassis/engine code is not a problem. Getting the ecu from the person you sell the APR'd ECU to, again, is no problem. IMMO needs to be removed from the ECU and recoded for the car(I believe), which is also relatively inexpensive. Ultimately, whether APR decides to offer some sort of discount on a new tune for your B8 or not, is up to them.


We allow warranty transfers of our ECU Upgrades from one car to the other if it meets the following criteria:

Same Chassis, Same Engine, Same EMS Version = $150

We will bend this policy for those that have Same Engine, Same EMS Version = $150 if they are a loyal customer, i.e. have purchased hardware for both vehicles from us too or this is their 3rd car with APR, APR Dealer recommendation, etc.

In the case of the OP, the B7 A4 is a 2.0T FSI with ME9. The A5 is a B8 with a 2.0 TFSI (Valve Lift Engine) with MED17.5.

There is no way that the B7 A4 software is even the least bit compatible with his A5. The ECU Upgrade for the A5 and other MED17.5 2.0TFSI Valve Lift engines has over $250,000 worth of specific R&D that is not amortized over the sales of what engine and ems is found in the B7 A4 he owned previously.

In the case of this client, you have think of his A4 as a PC and his A5 as a Mac or vice versa and he wants his version of Microsoft Office to work on both without paying for both versions.



Keith. Based on OP's first post, I did not conclude that he was asking for you guys to "switch" files to his B8 free of charge. He was just under the impression that he is "stuck" with the tune on his B7 ECU, and can not transfer it within the same (B7, 2.0T FSI) platform. This is how I understood his initial argument...

[blacka4]

In the case of this client, you have think of his A4 as a PC and his A5 as a Mac or vice versa and he wants his version of Microsoft Office to work on both without paying for both versions.

excellent compairson Keith...

[blacka4]

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought he wanted to sell the APR tune to somebody else, not put it in his A5.

if thats the case...just sell the ECU...or can't you do that anymore on the new cars?

[Operator]

The OP still makes a good point. If he goes with BSR, in 3-5 years if he sells his A5, he can sell the unit more easily and recoup some of the money he spent. If he gets it for 1k and sells it for $600~ that's still $600 back in his pocket. He could sell it for more than that.

[davis449]

If you actually knew how it works you would understand what I meant.

If you actually knew how to write, I would understand what you meant. You said flashing a car requires tools\labor\etc. I HAVE chipped cars and DO know how it works and can tell you for a FACT, no it doesn't. Unless you are chipping, say, a 2010 A4 where the ECU has to be pulled, taken apart, set in write mode with a node in order to load the software, and then put back together to be reinstalled in the car. That's labor. Plugging a USB cable from a laptop into the OBD II port of a car, logging into a VPN, entering some info., and clicking "Go" does not justify $100 in labor cost.

[Keith@APR]

The OP still makes a good point. If he goes with BSR, in 3-5 years if he sells his A5, he can sell the unit more easily and recoup some of the money he spent. If he gets it for 1k and sells it for $600~ that's still $600 back in his pocket. He could sell it for more than that.

I see now.

Simple answer, increase the selling price of the old car to recoup the cost of the flash.

next, sell just the ecu to someone with the same ecu part number and have the dealership adapt the immo. 1 hour of labor is all they should charge.

[b6onboost]

The tunes are worth their cost. To be able to gain 50chp/100ctq with virtually zero negative side affects is absolutely worth the $500 or so it costs. As for shops charging labor, even if its a simple OBD-II reflash its still takes 15-30mins to flash, test drive, and ensure everything is working before turning it over to the customer. A 1/2hr labor charge is not excessive, now 1hr or $100 probably is though.

I wouldn't expect tuners to offer free or discounted tunes from something like an A4 to an A5. You paid for the A4 tune, not the A5. Not being transferable isn't a big deal.

[deeznuts]

this is one of the arguments that just doesn't make sense and is a waste of time to debate.. like b6onboost said, you paid for your a4 tune, not a5...why would they transfer tunes? APR is a company to make money like any other business- its not the salvation army, and def wouldn't benefit from giving away free tunes, especially if they can get 500.

this isn't an american diesel truck. its a german sedan. two different cars, two different animals, two different manufacturers. not trying to be a dick to the OP, but those are the facts. There is time and money that goes into these tunes APR provides- they need to be paid to keep the company going.

[Keith@APR]

this is one of the arguments that just doesn't make sense and is a waste of time to debate.. like b6onboost said, you paid for your a4 tune, not a5...why would they transfer tunes? APR is a company to make money like any other business- its not the salvation army, and def wouldn't benefit from giving away free tunes, especially if they can get 500.

this isn't an american diesel truck. its a german sedan. two different cars, two different animals, two different manufacturers. not trying to be a dick to the OP, but those are the facts. There is time and money that goes into these tunes APR provides- they need to be paid to keep the company going.

I didn't want to go there but Domestic Diesel truck tuning or diesel tuning in general is extremely easy in comparison to gas. Turn up the fuel until it blows tons of black smoke from the exhaust and then ease back until the black smoke goes away, or don't. lol

[MMMB00ST_A4]

^Wow, you guys really suck at reading comprehension. Again, nowhere does the OP state that he wants his A4 tune swapped to his A5 for free. Someone please quote this and re-post it for me if i've missed the post where he asks for this to be done. He is simply asking why he cannot transfer the file to someone else' ECU(Which he can, he just seemed as though he didn't know how to word the question correctly). OR, why there is no flash-loader available for our cars where we ourselves can take the file back off of our ECU and sell the now "loaded" flash-loader to someone else with the same ECU code(The BSR for example). He is not asking for you guys to tune his A5 for free...

[audi5574]

Thanks MMMBOOST you are exactly right but everyone on here jumps to conclusions. All I would like is to be able to recoupe some cost of the software I bought. But you can't unless you find someone who wants a tune and swap ecu's. Am I supposed to wait for months before I find someone to buy it and not trade cars? Its just that APR's method of software installation sucks with few options. Just so Keith knows it was not easy to crack the code on the 2010 Dodge Cummins it took more then a year to do so. The new diesels are not as simple as the old ones. That is not my point when comparing diesels to gas though. I would just like the same software installation system as the diesels. Now I know its possible because BSR does it.

[Keith@APR]

Thanks MMMBOOST you are exactly right but everyone on here jumps to conclusions. All I would like is to be able to recoupe some cost of the software I bought. But you can't unless you find someone who wants a tune and swap ecu's. Am I supposed to wait for months before I find someone to buy it and not trade cars? Its just that APR's method of software installation sucks with few options. Just so Keith knows it was not easy to crack the code on the 2010 Dodge Cummins it took more then a year to do so. The new diesels are not as simple as the old ones. That is not my point when comparing diesels to gas though. I would just like the same software installation system as the diesels. Now I know its possible because BSR does it.

Cracking the code and calibration of the ecu are 2 entirely different things with 2 entirely different disciplines of engineering to accomplish each.

Cracking the code means they can get software on and off the ecu and the ecu will still work with the new software.

Calibrating the ecu is changing the software to make more power once someone has figured out how to get your software on and off the ecu and for the ecu to work with your new software.

For example, we have an Electrical Engineering Team that works at the Embedded Systems Level to be able to read out and reflash the ecu's.

Until they have figured this out, our Mechancial Engineering Team, the ME's that do the actual calibrations, has nothing to do or any reason for doing it.

I didn't mean to say that "cracking the code" on diesels is easy, I meant the calibration is pretty simple itself.

I did misread your post and I clarified a little earlier up once I understood what you meant.

These are your 2 options still:

Simple answer, increase the selling price of the old car to recoup the cost of the flash.

next, sell just the ecu to someone with the same ecu part number and have the dealership adapt the immo. 1 hour of labor is all they should charge.

Regarding BSR, yes, you can do it. But the problem we face with handheld loaders is that then ANYONE can steal our calibration. Companies that don't feel their advantage is in their actual calibration ability but in the delivery method and other intrinsic values like ability to resell don't worry as much about someone stealing their calibration.

We feel our calibration is above and beyond what others offer in a lot of circumstances so we don't offer handheld loaders to keep our competition from stealing our calibration.

I hope this makes sense.

[mr shickadance]

Thanks MMMBOOST you are exactly right but everyone on here jumps to conclusions. All I would like is to be able to recoupe some cost of the software I bought. But you can't unless you find someone who wants a tune and swap ecu's. Am I supposed to wait for months before I find someone to buy it and not trade cars? Its just that APR's method of software installation sucks with few options. Just so Keith knows it was not easy to crack the code on the 2010 Dodge Cummins it took more then a year to do so. The new diesels are not as simple as the old ones. That is not my point when comparing diesels to gas though. I would just like the same software installation system as the diesels. Now I know its possible because BSR does it.

we never said that thats what u were looking for, we just said for you to possibly save some money if u ever did want an a5 tune that you might be able to talk to apr and they might throw you a bone....but to be honest did you really think that when u bought your software flash that you would be able to sell it like an exhaust....if thats what u thought then im sorry....you're dumb

[mr shickadance]

dbl post sry

[Operator]

but to be honest did you really think that when u bought your software flash that you would be able to sell it like an exhaust....if thats what u thought then im sorry....you're dumb


Why is apr not selling some kind of software loader where we can return the car to stock and at least sell or upload a new software file to the loader.

I know of the Swedish tuner BSR who I might give a try.



The main question the OP had was answered by Keith a couple posts above. From my understanding, all the OP wanted to do from the beginning is recoup his funds for his flash. So no, he's not dumb..... If he gets the BSR tune, he'll then be able to do just what you mentioned ("sell it like an exhaust"), re-sell his BSR loader & tune when he sells, his A5.


And Keith, thanks again for the breakdown, made things alot more understandable!!!

[VZWalex]

We allow warranty transfers of our ECU Upgrades from one car to the other if it meets the following criteria:

Same Chassis, Same Engine, Same EMS Version = $150

We will bend this policy for those that have Same Engine, Same EMS Version = $150 if they are a loyal customer, i.e. have purchased hardware for both vehicles from us too or this is their 3rd car with APR, APR Dealer recommendation, etc.

In the case of the OP, the B7 A4 is a 2.0T FSI with ME9. The A5 is a B8 with a 2.0 TFSI (Valve Lift Engine) with MED17.5.

There is no way that the B7 A4 software is even the least bit compatible with his A5. The ECU Upgrade for the A5 and other MED17.5 2.0TFSI Valve Lift engines has over $250,000 worth of specific R&D that is not amortized over the sales of what engine and ems is found in the B7 A4 he owned previously.

In the case of this client, you have think of his A4 as a PC and his A5 as a Mac or vice versa and he wants his version of Microsoft Office to work on both without paying for both versions.

Thanks Keith for clearing this up ... this explains and now makes total sense on why I was able to do the swap ... My situation met over half of this criteria. :)

[GA42.0T]

, sell just the ecu to someone with the same ecu part number and have the dealership adapt the immo. 1 hour of labor is all they should charge.



Thanks for the thorough response Keith. Can you explain a bit more what 'adapt the immo' means?

Also, I actually have an oppertunity to gain the APR tune via this method - purchase from someone who's selling their car. Do you provide customer service to second-hand purchasers of your tune? I'm withing range of your Alabama office, so if I ever needed service I'd come straight to you.

Thanks!

[Gil2.0T]

it all comes down to.........


this world revolves around money, get used to spending it and not getting any of it back
everyone is gonna dick you wherever they can

[A4B7Quattro]

Maybe this is something you should have done research on before you bought your apr software not when you are wanting to sell it :P

[audi5574]

Maybe this is something you should have done research on before you bought your apr software not when you are wanting to sell it :P

This quote makes me laugh. The whole point to my argument is trying to get us a better and more convenient product to use. I don't like running to the shitty apr dealer and paying a hundred dollars to go from stage 1 to 2 and so on. One person posted find another dealer well no shit but I am not going to drive 350 miles for it. Keith said a few times charge more for the car well I can't the dealer is going to recertify the car and the software is no use to them. I have no issue losing the 599 plus 100 plus 100 stage 1 to 2 it just won't happen again that's all. I just don't like having limited options and thats what the currrent system does.

[mr shickadance]

I have no issue losing the 599 plus 100 plus 100 stage 1 to 2 it just won't happen again that's all. I just don't like having limited options and thats what the currrent system does.

i kinda feel like you do have an issue with losing 599 plus 100 plus 100 stage 1 to 2

[02silverbullett]

audi5574, I live in SLC and will prob be purchasing an A4 soon, maybe we can work out a fair agreement since APR clearly cares more about their precious calibration then their customers...

[Flexcj5]

I've wondered about the same thing. My diesel programmers can be moved around to different trucks as long as you unload the old one first. A nice programmer runs less than $800. I'd love to see Apr or any of the other companies offer something like this.

[Operator]

audi5574, I live in SLC and will prob be purchasing an A4 soon, maybe we can work out a fair agreement since APR clearly cares more about their precious calibration then their customers...

So someone else should be able to let APR spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on R&D and once they release a tune, just copy it and brand it their own?!? For my knowledge, how many of the Audi tunes come with a personal up-loader? Legit question because I don't know. But there's APR, REVO, GIAC, Unitronic, and BSR. Of those 5 only one (that I know of) has a personal up-loader.

I've already stated, I see where the OP is coming from, and I think the BSR route will work great for him. I'm actually interested in hearing a review on a BSR tune. But I see no reason to knock APR........

[audi5574]

Silverbullet, let me know I haven't traded yet if your are serious I will make you a good deal on my car. I have all the stock parts and the car is an 07 6 speed around 52,000 miles with APR stage 2+ tune, 034 HFC, APR HPFP, APR exhaust, and K&N filter. Plus I have 2 sets of wheels/tires you can choose which ones you want but I will keep one set with the snow tires for the new A5.

[audi5574]

Does anyone know if the ecu is tuned or if someone is a APR dealer why can't they hack/see/steal the tune that way. I am no expert but you would think it could be done one of those ways other then just through a handheld unit. I paid a 1,000 dollars for my diesel tuner and I don't think their tune is so easily stolen plus I was able to purchase a transmission tune for the automatic which makes the truck run real nice. I guess I am just spoiled with my diesel handheld/gauge module.

[audi5574]

Update for those interested. I just bought a B8 A4 2011 premium plus with titanium pacakge I deceided on this over the A5. What a nice car happy to have this over the b7 . Take care and goodbye .

[GarrettReid]

Update for those interested. I just bought a B8 A4 2011 premium plus with titanium pacakge I deceided on this over the A5. What a nice car happy to have this over the b7 . Take care and goodbye .

Pics or it's not true.

[audi5574]

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h366/bnt5574/mms94picture.jpg



Here is the pic.

[GarrettReid]

http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h366/bnt5574/mms94picture.jpg



Here is the pic.

I need to change pants...