PDA

View Full Version : any 1.8t stock displacement with more than 400awhp?



ricekikr
12-10-2010, 02:37 AM
Are there any 1.8t stock displacement with more than 400awhp? What setup? Is it even achievable?

My 50trim .48 is quickly getting slow for me already, only been installed a couple of months [wrench] and @22psi for a couple of weeks. I plan on installing rods, springs and valves in the following months. Was thinking if its even worth it, or just get a different car. S4s aren't really available in my county, Rs4s are more common than s4s but cost too much money, around $50k for a used b5 rs4[=(] and around $90k for a b7 rs4, taxes sucks.

Mantvis
12-10-2010, 06:09 AM
I think i know where ill be sellingn my tt :D

Dan[FN]6262
12-10-2010, 06:33 AM
I'm probably close if not over.


you just need a bigger turbo. and supporting hardware, obviously.



the only thing I have done to my engine, is rods, supertech valve springs, and supertech inconel exhaust valves. I'm still running a small port head on stock cams and a stock throttle body

Audi Skate Snow
12-10-2010, 08:11 AM
Are there any 1.8t stock displacement with more than 400awhp? What setup? Is it even achievable?

My 50trim .48 is quickly getting slow for me already, only been installed a couple of months [wrench] and @22psi for a couple of weeks. I plan on installing rods, springs and valves in the following months. Was thinking if its even worth it, or just get a different car. S4s aren't really available in my county, Rs4s are more common than s4s but cost too much money, around $50k for a used b5 rs4[=(] and around $90k for a b7 rs4, taxes sucks.

Yes there is. JOJO made 445whp with almost the same exact same setup that I have (except he has cams). 1.8, 3071r, REVO software (only a few of us have this file). Bigger throttle body, Eurocode fueling etc. I believe it was 445whp and 399wtq. This was on a B6 A4.

Dan[FN]6262
12-10-2010, 08:19 AM
Yes there is. JOJO made 445whp with almost the same exact same setup that I have (except he has cams). 1.8, 3071r, REVO software (only a few of us have this file). Bigger throttle body, Eurocode fueling etc. I believe it was 445whp and 399wtq. This was on a B6 A4.

*********with race gas on a dynojet.

Haenszel20v
12-10-2010, 08:22 AM
I did 440whp at 18psi and 650whp at 35psi in my jetta on stock displacement/stock pistons. Its entirely doable. Just buy a bigger turbo. Might I recommend a Bullseye S362. Best street turbo I've ever had.

Audi Skate Snow
12-10-2010, 08:28 AM
5857;5974269']*********with race gas on a dynojet.

yep... just like the rest of the B6 world.

terraflata
12-10-2010, 08:32 AM
I realize that doing rods and doing a stroker are two different things. But you wouldn't want to move up to a 2.0. You'll have the base for the numbers you want, and you'll gain a good powerband while your doing it.

Dan[FN]6262
12-10-2010, 08:35 AM
yep... just like the rest of the B6 world.

I was just saying.

Sarabi also said that he figured it would make ~330awhp in DD mode.

Audi Skate Snow
12-10-2010, 08:55 AM
5857;5974337']I was just saying.

Sarabi also said that he figured it would make ~330awhp in DD mode.

on straight pump no meth I would guess like 330-350whp. on meth and pump I think it could easily make upwards of 380-400

ricekikr
12-10-2010, 08:56 AM
So race gas is needed for 400awhp. I guess 93oct + meth would do the job. Whats the most HP stock displacement for 93oct?

Hows the lag with the s362, what a/r? How about the 3071? Which boosts quicker? Which is cheaper?

Whats your redline? 8000rpm to reach 400awhp+?

2.0/2.1 is out of the question. Too much money/work for the gain.

terraflata
12-10-2010, 09:00 AM
I beleive JK35 was making 482AWHP with W/M. Althought he is 2.0, cammed, ported, standalone etc......I know he plans on going with Nitrous and shooting for crazy numbers though. Militant Grunt was over 400WHP too I beleive, stock displacememt.

Dan[FN]6262
12-10-2010, 09:02 AM
the short story is, get a bigger turbo and the necessary hardware.

Audi Skate Snow
12-10-2010, 09:02 AM
5857;5974449']the short story is, get a bigger turbo and the necessary hardware.

true.. someone might be putting a 3076 in very soon.... for FREE!

v dub'n
12-10-2010, 02:57 PM
I run 94oct and make well over 400awhp with stock pistons and no meth. Next is meth once I install my labonte s4 kit

A4Rob
12-10-2010, 04:10 PM
I should be well over 400awhp.

Holset HX35 turbo, 1Kcc injectors, fuel pump, standalone ems, 35 shot nitrous, nitrous halo sprayer, rods, pistons, valves, cams, valve springs, exhaust and intake manifold ect...

ricekikr
12-10-2010, 05:37 PM
Thanks for the info. Guess its time to get a bigger turbo. Or maybe try nitrous first :)

black99.5a4
12-10-2010, 05:43 PM
bigger turbo.... im ery sure ill be over 400awhp with mine... stock pistons, rods, big turbo and water/meth..... :-D

Dan[FN]6262
12-10-2010, 06:33 PM
bigger turbo.... im ery sure ill be over 400awhp with mine... stock pistons, rods, big turbo and water/meth..... :-D

lies

ZimbutheMonkey
12-10-2010, 08:36 PM
My 50trim .48 is quickly getting slow for me already

For the best bang for the buck I would ditch the .48 A/R housing and get a .63 A/R It'll shift the powerband higher but it won't choke things off like that .48 one probably is right now. .63 T3 housings should be cheap like Borscht, unless your turbine is specific to that housing. Here's a compressor map for a 50 trim and as you can see it can actually flow a lot. However you really need a larger A/R on the turbine housing to allow for it.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/to4e-50-1.jpg

Second, you could sell the 50 trim off altogether and buy a 60 trim. The T3/T4's seem to be an often overlooked way of putting down some really decent power for very little money compared to the ball bearing GT series. The only real reason that I even gave consideration to these turbos is because a friend offered to send me one and I started researching their capabilities.

Here's a 60 trim compressor map vs a GT3071r map. As you can see they're very close, with the 60 trim looking like it can flow slightly more in fact. However in application I think they'd be very similar. The only difference will be spool, however, you can always drop a gear to get into boost on the 60 trim. My personal opinion is that for the difference in price between a GT series and a T04E you may as well put the money into the valvetrain and rev the SOB, GT series spool time is a little overrated for the dollar value IMO, but that's just me.

http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/to4e-60.jpg
http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo238/tlillo1/gt3071r_comp_e.jpg

ricekikr
12-10-2010, 09:48 PM
I don't know how to read compressor maps (actually I just need to read on Pressure Ratio). Heck I don't even know how much lb/min is needed for 400awhp lol. But I do know that I'll probably be only revving it to around 7750rpm.

I did get the 50trim .48 thinking, if I wanted more HP I'd just buy a .63 housing for cheap. But now it looks like I'll be wanting more than a 50trim .63 can give.

Has anyone tried a 60trim? Any surge issues like with the 57trim?

ZimbutheMonkey
12-10-2010, 10:14 PM
Roughly translated, 1 lb/min = 10 CHP. To determine the limits of the compressor just follow the efficiency islands (the oval parts) to the right most part of the map. This gives you a rough idea as to what it's capable of flow wise. In the case of the 50 trim it actually looks to be good to about 48 lb/min, which would be roughly 480 CHP. Now, that's in ideal conditions at sea level. In reality it'll probably be less. However even if it tops out at 42-44 lb/min that's still roughly 420-440 CHP. While it won't put you at 400 AWHP, it's plenty fast. My advice would be to get a properly sized turbine housing, build the engine to take advantage of it and get a good tune. I'd say that there's really no need to be upgrading the turbo at this point. Work with what you've got and go from there.

PS: One other thing to remember, dyno numbers are just that, numbers, nothing more. Like a lot of guys here have already said, a lot of those 400 AWHP dynos were one time pulls on race gas. It's kind of like putting a 20 lb weight on the end of your dick, hanging between your legs and claiming that you have a 12 inch schlong. Look at what these setups put out on pump gas and that's the reality of the situation.

Oceanside
12-12-2010, 06:50 PM
at 32psi on my AGP d42 i was nipping on the exhaust fumes of my friends e36 m3 3.2l 96mm turbo 550 whp, he won but not by much more than a couple car lengths 50-140

ricekikr
12-13-2010, 01:28 AM
Work with what you've got and go from there.

PS: One other thing to remember, dyno numbers are just that, numbers, nothing more. Like a lot of guys here have already said, a lot of those 400 AWHP dynos were one time pulls on race gas. It's kind of like putting a 20 lb weight on the end of your dick, hanging between your legs and claiming that you have a 12 inch schlong. Look at what these setups put out on pump gas and that's the reality of the situation.

Lol 20lbs = 12 inch.. I was thinking more of 400whp with w/m or if possible just pure water injection. I believe a lot of people daily their cars with w/m. After computation, it'l only come out a little more expensive than running pure gasoline.

But your right, I might as well just max out my turbo first and hopefully be satisfied with it. I always keep forgetting why I got a 50 .48 in the first place. Compromise between lag and max power.

I wonder which is more fun, less lag and less power or more lag and more power.

A4Rob
12-13-2010, 05:25 AM
It's kind of like putting a 20 lb weight on the end of your dick, hanging between your legs and claiming that you have a 12 inch schlong.

haha great example!

Dan[FN]6262
12-13-2010, 05:43 AM
I wonder which is more fun, less lag and less power or more lag and more power.

personally, more lag and more power.

terraflata
12-13-2010, 05:57 AM
I wonder which is more fun, less lag and less power or more lag and more power.

Depends on what you want to do with your car, tracking , DD, Reliability, $$$, all these things basically become catalysts to our preferences. I need at least half of my RPM to be a solid powerband!

v dub'n
12-13-2010, 11:50 AM
.

PS: One other thing to remember, dyno numbers are just that, numbers, nothing more. Like a lot of guys here have already said, a lot of those 400 AWHP dynos were one time pulls on race gas. It's kind of like putting a 20 lb weight on the end of your dick, hanging between your legs and claiming that you have a 12 inch schlong. Look at what these setups put out on pump gas and that's the reality of the situation.

I made 470awhp the way i drive my car daily on straight pump gas, if i wanted to hang that weight off my dick it'd be 18 inches cause i'd clamp a 42r on the bitch and go for big power. The goal for next year is 5XXawhp with meth and my wimpy 1.8 with stock pistons.

But i will agree most the guys make good power only with race gas cause they are limited with their chip/flash tuning.

ZimbutheMonkey
12-13-2010, 12:18 PM
Glad you guys like my analogy. I thought it sums up the point fairly well. I'd be nice if people just swallowed their pride, posted their pump numbers and we'd all have a decent idea as to what these setups make on the street. And I'll qualify that a little bit by saying that not all people are like that. Obviously guys like vdub'n and dougyfresh (and others) are willing to post pump numbers. However the perception gets skewed by those who don't. I kind of think it's like the anorexia/bulemia of car guys. We see these inflated numbers posted and figure that all of a sudden our setup is no good because "OMG, guy X made XXX AWHP so why aren't I?"

Problem is that when you invest $5000 in a setup, claim all over the forums that they're going to make XXX AWHP and find out that they're 50-75 HP short of what they claimed or what the tuner claimed, then it's in with the race gas, crank the s*it out of the timing and clamp the wastegate shut and make one huge pull and post it without qualifying what the conditions were.

A lot of the tuning companies are no better. I've seen some really suspect dyno plots and you have to wonder how happy the dyno was that day. Problem is that there's truth and then there's advertising. I'm not saying that it's outright lying, but I think a lot of the omissions come close.

Anyway, that's my rant for the day, I've got to study for contract law now :p

Dan[FN]6262
12-13-2010, 12:25 PM
I made 470awhp the way i drive my car daily on straight pump gas

thats awesome man. whats your setup?

ricekikr
12-13-2010, 06:51 PM
I made 470awhp the way i drive my car daily on straight pump gas. The goal for next year is 5XXawhp with meth and my wimpy 1.8 with stock pistons.


5857;5983239']thats awesome man. whats your setup?

Whats the setup?

Awesome numbers. And still on stock displacement. Could you post a dyno sheet (preferably with RPM). Wanna see how much lag.

TQMB5
12-14-2010, 08:16 AM
at 32psi on my AGP d42 i was nipping on the exhaust fumes of my friends e36 m3 3.2l 96mm turbo 550 whp, he won but not by much more than a couple car lengths 50-140

care to post up pics of the e36? was just talking about this with my friend who used to own won. With how cheap they are now and the ability of the straight 6 to take to boost it would be a fun build...

TQMB5
12-14-2010, 08:21 AM
Lol 20lbs = 12 inch.. I was thinking more of 400whp with w/m or if possible just pure water injection. I believe a lot of people daily their cars with w/m. After computation, it'l only come out a little more expensive than running pure gasoline.

But your right, I might as well just max out my turbo first and hopefully be satisfied with it. I always keep forgetting why I got a 50 .48 in the first place. Compromise between lag and max power.

I wonder which is more fun, less lag and less power or more lag and more power.

whats your powerband look like with the .48a/r? With a 2871r i have runt two setups first .86 then .63. the difference was about 400rpms but it was an awesome 400 rpm to gain.

only thing i would do differently is get a 3076r with t3 housing, T25 is a pain in the ass to install.


I should be well over 400awhp.

Holset HX35 turbo, 1Kcc injectors, fuel pump, standalone ems, 35 shot nitrous, nitrous halo sprayer, rods, pistons, valves, cams, valve springs, exhaust and intake manifold ect...

who will be tuning your setup rob?

flynnr
12-14-2010, 08:25 AM
even pump numbers to me are just numbers because EVERY dyno is different... and you NEVER get an identical number even out of the same dyno...

The numbers that should REALLY count are those numbers listed at the bottom of a 1/4 mile drag slip.

I cant talk, because the only time i have been to a drag day it was hot as a mofo and i only had shorts on so i couldnt do any timed passes, but i will this coming year for sure.