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View Full Version : been covered a million times....but i got lucky



wildbill
11-25-2010, 04:33 AM
i just recieved a free atw bottom....and now want to start a build....i have an aeb thats fine in the car now....so i have a head and intake mani...im curious what some of you guys like a4 rob or seerlah think...i dont want to go too complex as i have my vision set to the s4...so far im thinking scat rods, not sure about which piston as my aeb pistons are marked up when the last guy fucked up on maintenance or the lack there of. from what i understand 20mm wristpins in the aeb will be fine for my power goals....i was thinking an hx35....suggestions? btw the car is a 97 qm.

hercfe
11-25-2010, 07:17 AM
Why HX35? That is a HORRIBLE street turbo for a 4 cyl with 2.0 or less.

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 07:26 AM
yeah, the HX isnt a good street turbo... plus, look at all the guys who are running them here, who's car hasnt fallin apart? Robs, but its rarely driven.

I would look at something a bit more reliable if that is what you want. Stock pistons, as long as they arent cracked, will be fine. Scat rods are nice, so are IE, etc. I put Scat rods in a 2.1 in a b6 I am building and I have IE rods in my motor. There are differences, but I wouldnt say one is better then the other.

Unless you are going to build the head, get a nice tubular manifold, and unfortunately there isnt any banging tuning for you (Meastro is it unless you go standalone, but ME5 Meastro doesnt give you much control).. Then I wouldnt run a hx35.

What is your power goals? Have you looked at t3/t4 50 or 60 trims? 2871's, 3071's? (t3 flanged of course).. Precision 5557, 5857?

wildbill
11-25-2010, 07:44 AM
id like 300whp/300ft lbs or more of course:) ...ive read the 3071 is nice and seems to pick up quicker than the 76....i see 034 mani for the t3 flange is only like 3 bones. so heres a ? will my aeb wristpins fit in the atw piston? again my concern is the mess on the face of those pistons. i have time to put this together so i want to do it right. the 28 doesnt seem worth the price of admission. if im changing that much including rods...im going to make it count

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 08:00 AM
honestly, a stock AEB will take 300/300 to the wheels with the right turbo. Nic (laser viking) is at 180k miles, pushing 20psi on a stock AEB with a t3/t4 50 trim .63 a/r hot side.

In all honestly, unless you wanna spend 1400-1600 for a BB garret or almost 1800-2000 for a new GTX Garret, then i'd look at t3/t4 variants, PTE's.. You can build it right and still keep it within budget. You dont need to spend 15k on a motor to make power.

No, your AEB wrist pins will not fit the ATW pistons.

What kind of budget do you have?

Here is what I would do if you do not plan to bore the block at all.

aeb pistons (used they are like 100-125 shipped or get yours magnafluxed so they can check they arent cracked and they will clean them up.. as long as there are no microscopic cracks (which magnafluxing will find) you are good).
scat or IE rods.. oil gear needs modded for rods, unless you get the IE specific AEB drop ins (350 i think they are)
oem rod bearings - 30 bucks
oem main bearings - 50
oem thrust washers - 25
arp main bolts - 100
balance crank, rods and pistons (we also send the flywheel and pp to make sure they are good).. locally that only costs 150.. your area might differ
goetez pistons rings from IE 170
gaskets - 150ish
Ebay ATP knock off with t3 flange (this is the only ebay part i'd buy, as its actually tried and true... you have to shave slightly on the top of the exhaust flange the coating makes it hit the head and you should clearance out where the holes are, so nuts go on easier) 125 shipped
ATP wg relocation tube 70
38mm wastegate Tial 220
630 injectors 200
Tapp Tuning (chips are i think 750, Meastro is 900) but there is someone in the classifieds (might be on vortex) that is selling a tapp 630 file with ecu, TIP and MAF, but its for the older MAF, Chris now tunes using the 4.2 audi v8 housings
4.2 audi v8 maf $$?? IDK what they cost
PTE 5857 journal bearing t3 turbo with 4" anti surge inlet 905 shipped from IE (you need to use a .065 restrictor.. disregard the "no restrictor needed".. trust me, b6 guys are blowing them crazy with good oil pressure motors without the restrictor)

That's using good parts mixed with parts that are still tested as being good, but arent the most expensive thing on the market and its still not going to be cheap. So, if I was you, i'd pick what your route is going to be, with the budget you have.

wildbill
11-25-2010, 08:08 AM
id like to keep it under 10...right now i have a pc 16...2.5 apr cat back. 034 high flow. adj fpr from ecs, im sure ill need a fuel pump. im willing to bet i can build a decent setup for well under 10

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 08:16 AM
You can have it for around 5, but you need to shop well... You wont need your PC-16, 2.5 cat back or hi flow. all that you can sell, ecu you can sell for X plus get a stock ecu to get tuned again.

This is where it gets expensive. If I tallied up the receipts for this customer, i bet he has 13-15k in the motor.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1343/5131579609_22457db2fd_z.jpg

GL on your venture, but like I said, 5 is doable. I am only going to be in mine 5g's. I am staying 1.8, leaving my AEB's in it, IE rods, ebay manifold, tial wastegate, FX400 clutch, 5857 PTE.. you get the picture.

wildbill
11-25-2010, 08:23 AM
yeah im deff not changing pistons...ive heard my aeb's are beast. i was hoping to make a downpipe to work with my apr though..i like how quiet it is. rods and rings....turbo, mani, bearings...tune is ustom from a guy in nc absolute automotive...a friend of mine who gave me the bottom end. speaking of which is the atw bottom going to even work? and since i have a dbc cant he utilize the giac chip since i will need a solder job?

wildbill
11-25-2010, 08:23 AM
black a4? where in pa are you out of btw?

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 08:30 AM
yeah im deff not changing pistons...ive heard my aeb's are beast. i was hoping to make a downpipe to work with my apr though..i like how quiet it is. rods and rings....turbo, mani, bearings...tune is ustom from a guy in nc absolute automotive...a friend of mine who gave me the bottom end. speaking of which is the atw bottom going to even work? and since i have a dbc cant he utilize the giac chip since i will need a solder job?

He cant use the chip (GIAC locks their tunes, he's gonna have to stick a stock eprom in it). You can get it unsoldered, but 99% of the places, including GIAC, wont resolder one of their chips in. You could sell it for say 350, buy a stock ecu for 65-75.. Make 275 instead of using your current ECU and losing that potential profit.

You can keep your 2.5, but you will be restricting flow needed to really breath above 280-300.

The ATW block will work, yeah. Its the same as what you have now, except the internals are 19mm. (00 used 058 blocks with 19mm internals, small port heads, 01 used AWM 06a blocks, 19mm internals, small port heads..... does this ATW block you have, have the internal water pump (big round hole in the block, top right side?, if not, its a 058, if it does, its really a 01 block and cant be used without changing a bunch of other shit). Just trying to make sure it is a ATW, it seems 00 and 01's people always call them one or the other, when there are actual differences.

I live in Lancaster County, PA (Lititz area)

wildbill
11-25-2010, 08:38 AM
ill go out and look. but reall i could build off the atw crank and then when i was ready just move the aeb head and pistons correct? as for balancing ive read that as long as you put the pistons back in the same cylinder youre fine...but changing blocks im assuming that will pose a problem? i was asking bc im from bucks county

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 08:43 AM
ill go out and look. but reall i could build off the atw crank and then when i was ready just move the aeb head and pistons correct? as for balancing ive read that as long as you put the pistons back in the same cylinder youre fine...but changing blocks im assuming that will pose a problem? i was asking bc im from bucks county

you wanna balance the whole assembly.. you'd be surprised, but when we got the assembly for the 2.1 balanced. There were new holes in the crank to balance it better, obviously the pistons and rods were getting balanced as they were aftermarket.. but the ClutchMasters "already balanced" Pressure Plate, even needed a little bit more weight in 2 spots to be spot on balanced.

Its extra insurance. You want it done because its vital to keeping the motor together over time.

You could build the ATW yes, but without buying another set of pistons, you cant really do anything except get the tore apart, honed, cleaned up, crank installed and then you need the aeb pistons from your current motor (unless you buy another set).

wildbill
11-25-2010, 08:45 AM
i mean this is more a free block to burn time with as im waiting to paint mine. i hit a deer and now have all the parts together....but my painter is down til january for shoulder repair. i may buy some aeb pistons....what do they run normally?

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 08:46 AM
100-125 shipped (for a set), used. New they are 350 each and include wrist pin and rings.

wildbill
11-25-2010, 08:52 AM
id go used....id like to see if mine will work...theyre holding 20 lbs now all day....theres no marks on the lip its only central on the face. it almost seems like the b5 bat is not worth the money.....it seems like i should just chase my s4 dream...but the money and time into my 1.8 makes me want to finish strong

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 08:55 AM
you can chase the s4 dream all you want.. i have plenty of friends with them and each one will tell you that what the s4 section says about keeping 3-5g's in the bank at all times, is true. Each of my friends spend in the 2-4k a year in maintaince other then oil and TB jobs.

wildbill
11-25-2010, 09:04 AM
that sucks. id like to have a bt a4 and an s4 in the 5 yr plan...i am a "enthusiast" with no proper training....but im skating by :) id like to build this over the next year to 18 months....but again....what turbo and gains .....and repercussions will incur is something i want to look at ahead of time

wildbill
11-25-2010, 09:07 AM
describe the big round hole? there is one....between cylinder 2 and 3 intake side...but has a line to the water pump....so .....im assuming thats what youre talking about
edit....i can look through the described hole and see light to where the crank is.....and the water pump has.....line from oil cooler to water pump...then flange off of pump

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 09:10 AM
on the front of the block.. looking at it dead on in front of you... you have the crank at the bottom, the timing belt tensioner goes on the left, the right will be a big hole with 3 bolt holes.

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 09:11 AM
top right of the block, not the head.. is the waterpump for a 06a block, your block (ATW) should not have a hole here.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5026635071_36a8a6b6d8_b.jpg

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 09:13 AM
this might be better.. you do NOT want the hole that the paper towels are stuck in

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/4689331526_243af7a8ed_z.jpg

wildbill
11-25-2010, 09:16 AM
yeah i dont think its there...but the cover is on... i plan to start breaking it down today...but looking down in there its a negative ghost rider... so iyo whats a median for the street snail wise? 3071? 3076? tial....i do not know much about their product lines

bw86
11-25-2010, 09:23 AM
I've been gathering parts for a hx35 build after riding in my friends 2.0 with one. He gets 20psi at ~4k rpm, just weld the internal wg shut and your good to go. The turbos are so cheap too - $250 on ebay and the rebuild kits are $50.

black99.5a4
11-25-2010, 09:27 AM
to make power, you get lag. You can spend the 1700 on a new GTX Garret 3076, which is suppose to be 35r output at 3071 spool.. You can keep it tame in the cost range and get 25-28psi around 4400rpm's (which is normal big turbo spool) with a PTE 5857, which costs 905 from IE. Its journal, a lot easier/cheaper to rebuild if anything happens. BB Turbos need new CHRA's for 600-800 a pop when they go bad outside of warranty. A journal bearing can be rebuilt for 150-200 in parts.

The turbo in my first picture to you, is a 5857 PTE with 4" anti surge inlet.. the second turbo, in the pic right above here, is a t3/t4 50 trim .63 a/r (its actually Laser Vikings turbo he is running now)..

GT 3076 will get you 375 ish on stock head, 3800ish spool, give or take. 3071 will probably net you 350, give or take, on stock head with 3500-3600 spool. 35r will get you 475 ish on fully built motor/head, spool would be around 5k...

If you're okay with lag, knowing your end result will be good power.. If you are pleased with 300-350 and have no need to higher, then I think a 3071 with a t3 flange .63 a/r would suite you well.

wildbill
11-25-2010, 09:27 AM
ive heard that....any dyno plots? im curios what its curve looks like...granted im leaving mine at a 1.8